Hello, everyone.

I'm here for a last ditch attempt at saving my marriage.
I'll give you a little background info. (You can see all other relevant sats at the bottom of my post)

I found out last November that my husband was "talking" to another woman. I have not been able to figure out who this person is. He is unwilling to tell me as he quote: "Knows how I am and doesn't want to be embarrassed."
He also tells me this is someone he knew WAY before he knew me and he has been talking with on and aff for 6 years.

I caught them on the phone. He had gone downstairs in the basement to talk to her and had unplugged the phone in our office.

I asked that he tell me about the reasons this happened and who this person was. He has never really talked to me much about it. Other than to say the typical...
"I wasn't attracted to her." "It wasn't what you think." "We were never physical."

He did call her and tell her he shouldn't talk to her anymore as he had things to work out with his wife and the relationship between them wasn't helping any. I was not allowed to listen in on the message he left or anything. At the time I was not more demanding with boundaries as I had a newborn son to think about and was terrified at the thought of being alone with the children. He seemed to feel more badly about leaving her this message than he did about the fact he had just devesated a woman who was not even healed from the birth of his son.

He has been creul and heartless since this has happened. I have not heard I love you in over a year. He tells me one day he'll leave and the next he'll stay. There is no talk of issues in the marriage. I am supposed to just forget and forgive and never ask him any questions. He was a wonderful husband and father prior to this. I could not have been more shocked.

I do not have access to his passwords on his office voicemail or email. He FREAKED out last week as he thought I had been messing with his cell phone. (which I wasn't) It just seems to me that he is being overly secretive and lying. He tells me I have no right to know what he does- that he is a grown man. I don't think he stopped talking with her for one day.

At any rate, I have implemented a Plan A approach since last December. I have started anti-depressants and have begun to try to treat him the same way I did when we were married- Lots of attention, admiration and respect. (Not that I stopped- I just think his impression of life with children and all of the work I have *2 jobs* is unrealistic) I make him dinner every night, do not question his whereabouts, do not ask him about the other woman or if he is still in contact with her, do not snoop, do not complain about watching the children....

IT HAS NOT HELPED !! It has just made it easier for him to be an [censored].

He came home this weekend after working overtime and became enraged that the children had toys on the floor. I had decided to watch a movie with them and relax. Everyone must walk on eggshells around him. I told him "How dare he call me lazy in front of our children"

He became VERY angry and locked himself inside of the van in the garage. I asked him to come out and talk and he just started screaming about how I trapped him into marriage and how he is so F'in done with me. To screw Thelma and Louise that it was just going to be himself and himself on a road trip around the country screwing anyone he could along the way.

He also began a countdown and told me I could have everything he makes- if I JUST LEAVE HIM ALONE. 10-9-8-7-6... "Awww... Too Late!"
He started screaming and crying 'Why, God- I've Tried to be a good person...WHY must I endure this hell!!??"

It was all so horrible I broke down and cried and begged him (I know) to let me talk to him. He would roll down the window a little say "No" through the crack and laugh. The more I cried, the more he pointed at me laughing while continuing to roll down the windows and roll them up again. He would also pretend he was driving away waving and smiling while pointing at me and laughing.

My son fell while this was going on and split his lip badly. I saw all of the blood and was scared and asked my husband to come and check on his son. HE REFUSED TO COME IN even though his son was screaming out for him and all of our girls were crying !!

I am at the pont where I am disgusted and feel like giving up. The only resolution to last night was that he told me "You have me until I die" Like it was a horrible and obligatory death sentence.

I am so sick of feeling like his biggest regret- which he never stops telling me daily. He also tells me I tricked him into marriage and got pregnant just to seal the deal and keep him. He will not work on issues. I just go about my business, kissing his [censored] while he treats everyone like crap and comes and goes as he pleases for work and other fraternal activities.

A bit of added info included that we are both ex Jehovah's Witnesses. My husband was disfellowshipped (cast out from the congregation and cut off from all socialization from friends and family) for dating a non believer. (ME)

He has never gotten over this and refuses to talk about it or become involved in the faith again.

Sorry so long, but please anyone with any insight or advice- I'm listening!

<small>[ November 24, 2003, 03:36 PM: Message edited by: wittlewifeypoo ]</small>

Do you think he is really having an affair? I think that his behavior is pretty bizarre. And what ever is going on inside his head? What are things that could make him behave so weird? Any kind of trauma, mental or physical? Were you pregnant when you got married? Is he resentful about leaving the Jehovah Witnesses? That is a very cohesive brand religion. And that may be a big part of the weird behaviors.

MC is a good move. And reading here helps. Read the Harley material. It helps with your perspective. Sounds like your husband may either need meds or is on too many of something.

Hope you are doing ok today. You can get lots of mental support here. Hang in there as you are not alone! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

WFLOWER-
To answer some of your questions...

Yes, I do think he's having an affair. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
No, I was not pregnant when we married. I had a daughter from a previous relationship.
My husband was raised by a bi-polar schizophrenic mother and an absent drug addicted father- I'm sure there are issues aplenty.
Yes, I am sure he misses the fellowship of the religion. He was born and raised in it. I came into the religion later in my life. Disfellowshipping is similar to shunning.
I am just wondering where I should go from here. I am thinking of sitting down and telling him that he needs to decide what he wants or get out?!! (Plan B)
Just not really sure where to proceed.

<small>[ November 24, 2003, 06:29 PM: Message edited by: wittlewifeypoo ]</small>

I just go about my business, kissing his [censored] while he treats everyone like crap and comes and goes as he pleases for work and other fraternal activities.

My advise to you would be to go about your business, but stop kissing his A**. It only encourages this behaviour.

I have a different perspective. He may or may not be having an A. Yes his behaviour his really bizarre. But, my H also started acting strange, irrational and immature beyond belief. There was no A. He, too, has control and anger management issues and questionable coping skills.

Since your H's disfellowship, he's feeling isolated and trapped. He wants out. And because you are the closest one to him, he blames you. It can't be his fault that his life is the way it is so it must be yours. Look at his behaviour in the car. I could see a child acting that way--not a grown man like he professes.

What happened that led to his disfellowship?

If he's acting like a child, why not treat him like one? What would you do if one of your children did this?

((((((wittlewifeypoo))))))

Boy have you got your hands full! Two jobs, four children, husband having problems. Are your parents close by? You need some help, girlfriend!

Okay, so you need to get your plan together.

#1 I see your husband as probably having an affair ... cell phone incident, comes and goes as he pleases. So that's one thing to deal with.

#2 A deeper thing to deal with, however, is that he could have bipolar tendencies. It is hereditary. Sometimes it doesn't show up until well into someone's 20s or 30s. Anyone in the medical/psychological field here that can help? What does she do? How can she help him? How can she find out if he is bipolar when he is acting the way he is with her?

If you get answers to the bipolar thing, proceed with that. Otherwise, I would say that it's time for Plan B. Maybe TooMuchCoffeeMan will check in with you.

Take care of yourself the best you can. Get some help from your parents, a best friend, if you don't belong to a church just call one and tell them you need some help.

Much love and I'll pray for you!

SAB-
I will adress some of the things you mentioned.

I know I get the advice to not treat him with kindness. However, being that he was so neglected as a child I see some of his behavior as "testing". If I do this, will she not love me? Will she change? I swear I can see the boy in him when he does some of the things he does.

He was disfellowshipped because he was dating a non baptized member of the faith. We had premarital relations and this was the main reason. We continued to see one another and tried to keep our relationship moral. We attended services faithfully and I progressed as far as one can in this religion without baptism.

The elders waited over a year after we were married to reinstate him. By then, it was too late. His friends had abandoned him and the others always treated him as a marked man. We were unable to continue on spiritually and I know when we no longer put our God first we lost much in our marriage.

I am unsure if he is involved sexually with another. To know of his upbringing and the inner turmoil it would cause.... I do doubt it at times.

I have no family to turn to. I was an adopted child (by my grandparents). My grandmother is dead and my grandpa is so consumed by depression he no longer contacts me. The rest of my family is one loony bunch, so not much to lean on there.

My husband's family is strained. His father passed away at the age of 49 and his mother is- well, she is how she is.

Stung....

I would really like to know more about this bi-polar thing as well. I don't feel as though even if he is this ill he would ever get help. I do know he is most certainly depressed.

His emotions do cycle rapidly. I can't ever know if he'll be nice or angry when I see him.

Your husband sounds mentally ill, either bi-polar or severely depressed or manic-depressive or something. The scene you describe in the car is beyond the pale.

If I were you I would get some professional counseling -- on your own, without his knowledge. Contact Steve Harley or Penny (posts here as cerri)at the links in my signature. You can counsel privately by phone with them and get some professional insights and advice.

If you have been basically Plan Aing for 11 months and he is still being emotionally abusive you need a change of strategy. I can't say what it is...probably a decision to either get counseling or seperate.

Does his mother shows signs of mental illness?

wittlewifeypoo here's something that may help:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Dr Willard Harley:

"In general, I recommend separation when at least one spouse cannot control destructive behavior. An ongoing affair, of course, is one of those situations. Hence, plan B. But other situations such as physical and verbal abuse, where one spouse's mental or physical safety is as risk, are also grounds for separation. As in the case of infidelity, if one spouse is abusive, I often recommend plan A first, where, through negotiation (without anger, disrespect or demands), an attempt is made to overcome the abuse without separating.

But in some cases, the safety risks are so great that plan B should be implemented immediately, with no time for plan A. In these cases, treatment for the abusive habit must take place during separation, and some evidence must exist that the risk has been greatly reduced, or completely eliminated, before the spouses should return to each other. Then, after being together again, the formerly abusive spouse should be held accountable by others for his or her behavior to assure the other spouse's safety."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Affair or not, if your safety as well as the children's is in danger from your H's bizarre behavior, then you may want to take Dr Harley's advice to implement Plan B. Your safety and the children's is paramount.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I would really like to know more about this bi-polar thing as well. I don't feel as though even if he is this ill he would ever get help. I do know he is most certainly depressed </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My sister is bi-polar. I haven't read too much on it. It used to be called manic-depressive. You go through periods where you can't sleep for days, must keep moving, can't sit for a minute. Then you have days in a row where you can't get out of bed, don't want to live.

Check it out on the net. Maybe some site like webMD or something. There has to be someone here who has experienced this with themselves or their spouse. Anyone out there?

Hi, everyone.
Thanks for the advice so far. I do not think from your description of bi-polar, Stung, that this is what is wrong with my husband.

I also do not feel I am in danger of being physically hurt by him. I am not 100% sure I am ready for Plan B. The thought of being alone with the children terrifies me.

He has been such a jerk over this vacation period. He gets up right away in the AM and leaves to go work on our other house. I know he is there- I have checked up on him. It's just like he can't wait to be out of here. I know he is stressed by the fact we're carrying two mortgage payments right now, but not to spend any time with the family is ridiculous.

I am becoming very bitter as I don't feel it is fair for me to have to watch the children on vacation as I have them the majority of the time during the week. I do not have family to help with them. (on either side)

He is also increasingly cutting me down. He was watching a commercial for The Simple Life (it's a new reality series coming up on Fox) and was ogling the women on there. I know he was doing it to get a reaction from me. I did comment that if he was looking for women like that, he might want to start cruising the junior high schools.

His response was, "Hey, whatever it takes."

It just really makes me angry as he says nothing to me about my appearance. I know I am attractive, but I just hate the fact that he can't mention anything nice about me at all. It's as though ANYONE but me does it for him.

He also was wondering who was in the garage this morning. My 6 year old had left her magic wand in the van and had gone out to get it. He was accusatory like I must have been out there going through the call log on his phone.(Which I thought about doing... but didn't.)

I am to a point where I am becoming SO bitter that this is affecting every aspect of my life. I want to sit him down and ask him if he is still seeing this woman and if he is "DONE" with our marriage. I need to know if this is a bad idea.

I feel in my gut it probably is, BUT I really need to at least discuss some issues. This is driving me crazy.

He wouldn't even have a Thanksgiving dinner for our children. It as if he feels..
"If I'm miserable, everyone else will be too."

I'm almost at my breaking point.

Okay, here is my 2 cents worth. You're losing your love for him, so it's time to DO something!

I'm not an expert, keep in mind, but if he is still having an affair,I feel you need to Plan B.

Now, what if he ISN'T having an affair anymore? I don't know about that. I see a few possibilities:

1. Get him in counseling
2. Get him to see a doctor
3. A Plan B, but the letter would reflect "when he can treat you and the children with respect" or something similar to that

Hey, what does everyone else think she should do?

<small>[ November 29, 2003, 10:49 AM: Message edited by: Stung by a Bee ]</small>

Your husband's behavior is frustrating and sad. He's making like miserable for you and your children and I particulary hate the children part. As adults we can find ways to deal and move on, but it is very hard for children to deal with. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Read the Plan A links in my signature line. They should help you with boundaries.

Wifeypoo...

You need a plan....
a plan that focuses you and nurtures you in the strength you will need to what you have to do...

If I had to guess it sounds to me like he is/was having an emotional if not physical affair with someone that has recently broken it off...
whether he broke it off or her it sounds just like the behaviors of someone in withdrawl...

the outlashing and "blaming" you for you for this...

screaming about how I trapped him into marriage and how he is so F'in done with me.

Here's what I suggest...


1. Get a copy of his cell phone records...
there are people here and posts that have the information to get cell phone records...
search these posts...or start a new post for the way to do this...
I obviously don't know or i would tell you.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

2. Get yourself in to some sort of counseling...for your own sanity and self esteem...
you need to establish a network that strengthens, renews and supports you...not in complaining about your husband type of thing...but one in which you have just the support of others who can understand the stress you are under and become a good sounding board for you...

Use a babysitter that is reliable if you have to just so that you have some time from the children and are with some healthy adult...
do not isolate yourself with just him and his treatment...the longer this goes on as being "normal" the more you will adjust and adapt to keeping things like they are


ask him if he is still seeing this woman and if he is "DONE" with our marriage. I need to know if this is a bad idea.


this is a bad idea becuase it is not he who is done with his marriage...it is you who are done with accepting this treatment and disrepect in your home...

you can not change him so you must focus and change you...

He wouldn't even have a Thanksgiving dinner for our children. It as if he feels..

He behavior is toxic to you and your children...I hope that you and the children went ahead and had a thanksgiving dinner without him...
that you need in your plan A...to be inviting him to do these activities with you....
expect him to decline...but go on with them...and enjoy life and your family....

he can not control you without your consent...and if you consented to no thanksgiving dinner then you own that choice...regardless of his..

you need to empower yourself....

I am not 100% sure I am ready for Plan B. The thought of being alone with the children terrifies me.


I would think the thought of living another day the way things are would be more terrifying...


Do not power struggle or feed into his tantrums...
if he calls you lazy...answer back one time..

I am sorry about the toys...but the kids and I are watching a movie...and I will clean them up when done..
and be done with that..
do not rise to his bait of name calling..the kids will pay more attention to how far it escalates to one insane comment..
if he continues to berate you or escalates bundle the kids up and go out...

I would say attempt one last ditch effort to put into writing what you think...
sort of a pre-plan b letter...

use your own words and own feelings without blaming him...

speak of the love you have left for him..
and the deep belief you have in him as a person..

he expects blame and confrontation..
surprise him in the letter with you deep felt concern about how he is feeling and doing in his life..

often doing the exact opposite of what someone believes or expects gets there attention..
tell him you are worried about him..
worried about how bad he appears to feeling..and you are lonely for him and want him to be happy...

BUT wifeypoo...
i think that you have to seriously consider that plan b even though scary is not as scary as living another year without decency in your home...
for you and your children deserve that...

I believe he is having problems with his OW and trying to blame you..
don't take the blame...and don't feed into his behavior...

speak your love and concern...and then make a plan to protect yourself and what love you have left...

ARK

My husband was bipolar. Approximately 5% of the population is affected by the disorder. For many years he went undiagnosed. He would be relatively "normal" then would go into a manic phase where he would start lots of different projects, sleep little and have inflated and slightly grandiose ideas of things he wanted to do and accomplish. Then he would drop into the depressive state and would be miserable for weeks on end. During those times he could be quite emotionally abusive which was totally opposite to his usual behaviour. Then a little over a year ago he went into a severely manic state and had to be hospitalized. He was delusional and totally out of control. It seemed as if he was exactly the opposite from his normal behaviour in every way. He was a danger to himself and to me. He was given a lot of different medication to stabilize him and was released from the hospital after two weeks. In spite of the medication, he became extremely depressed and never came back out of it. He committed suicide on Oct. 3, 2003. If you really think it's possible your husband is bipolar, he will need medical intervention, there is nothing you can do to help him except get him medical attention. There are many excellent websites on the net. If you do a search for bipolar disorder, you will find a lot of information, including lists of symptoms which may help you decide if this is possibly what's going on with him. Good luck.
One other thing, it is believed there is a strong genetic component to bipolar disorder, if his mother was diagnosed bipolar and schizophrenic there is a much greater chance he may be as well.

<small>[ November 30, 2003, 02:12 PM: Message edited by: Medusa ]</small>

he can not control you without your consent...and if you consented to no thanksgiving dinner then you own that choice...regardless of his..

A person only has the power over you that you give to them. I know you're feeling somewhat trapped. Especially without support of family on either side. We have 4 children as well. I had a similar situation to yours except my H's behaviour wasn't as violent or bizarre.

You have the power to do something. There are shelters for women and children who can help you if you decide to leave. If you tell them what you have told us, they have connections to all sorts of people who can help you with an intervention. You must decide for yourself how badly you want things to change. You cannot change him, but you can change you and how you choose to deal with it. You deserve better than this.

What area do you live in? Maybe Cerri can offer some suggestions for you through her contacts.

The unknown is scary. I know. But is this the life you want for yourself and your children? What kind of example is he setting for them?

<small>[ December 01, 2003, 08:33 AM: Message edited by: SAB ]</small>

Hi.
I appreciate everyone's advice. I am curious to know if you all feel I am in an abusive situation? I don't think I am.

It just seems as though the chord runs strongly through this thread.

I am wondering why I should not go along with what he wants. If I am against him it makes things so much worse than if I just stay quiet and try to swallow how angry I am. I am not allowed to mention his contact with the OW as that is just me rehashing old crap. He gets very angry and will turn up the radio, cut me off, turn on a video game or just walk away from me whenever I talk about something he doesn't like.

We talked last night and he tells me that he has not felt anything for me for a long time and that he is just hanging in there for now. He told me he has no plans to leave because he has nowhere to go. He tells me that he doesn't even know if I'm attractive because he can't even see me that way at all anymore. He told me that he won't do anything, that he is tired of being sorry for things he had not done.

I know it sounds awful, but I felt better when I heard this. I have been so worried for so long that he would abandon me with the children it was a relief.

Then when we went to bed he mentioned all kinds of little digs about divorce. I just ignored him but I had the all familiar sick twisted feeling in my gut. I find it almost impossible to sleep at night.

I also want to let everyone know he recently found out I was corresponding via e-mail with two men. One I talk with about dogs and dog training and occasionally we bring up the marriage. The other is in a similar situation as me and we taklk about our marriages. I don't love any man other than my husband. I am totally comfortable with him reading anything I wrote and would give it to him if he asked.

He was so angry I thought he would explode. Then he tells me he doesn't care if I'm doing it. That he knows I'm only being nice just till someone better comes along. He knows I am looking for someone else to pay for me and coddle me as he says.

I asked him why it was OK to talk to another woman whom he met physically in person for months for lunch and it was not OK for me to e-mail someone else that I have never even met in person or talked to on the telephone.

He told me he wasn't attracted to her so nothing happened. He also told me of someone came along who found him attractive and the feeling was mutual that he would be done with our marriage in less than an hour. he also said that he thinks he's attractive enough to have a girlfriend and he wishes he had one. He also told me at times he wants to find some relatively attractive woman and just sleep with her for his "out".

I showed him that I had told these men I would no longer e-mail them and he threw the printout of the e-mails in my face and told me he doesn't care what I do. If he doesn't care then why is he so angry and if he wanbts out this bad why is he not moving forward with divorce proceedings?

He also told me of someone came along who found him attractive and the feeling was mutual that he would be done with our marriage in less than an hour. he also said that he thinks he's attractive enough to have a girlfriend and he wishes he had one. He also told me at times he wants to find some relatively attractive woman and just sleep with her for his "out". I showed him that I had told these men I would no longer e-mail them and he threw the printout of the e-mails in my face and told me he doesn't care what I do. If he doesn't care then why is he so angry and if he wanbts out this bad why is he not moving forward with divorce proceedings?

He's using you because he knows he can get away with this. He's trying to make you feel like you're doing him a favour. He doesn't have anyone but you and the children. So, he's going to make you suffer for it. He won't proceed with D proceedings because he won't want the responsibility.

Of course he's angry that you are in contact with other men. He can't control that. Rules are meant for everyone else but him. I get the impression that there's also a double standard here between what is acceptable for men is different than for women.

Don't suffer in silence. He's counting on that to have power over you. Tell everyone who will listen and be able to support you. He will be angry about this. Too bad. If what he's doing is OK then he has nothing to worry about what other's think of his behaviour. You have yourself and your children's welfare to think about.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by wittlewifeypoo:
<strong> Hi. I appreciate everyone's advice. I am curious to know if you all feel I am in an abusive situation? I don't think I am. It just seems as though the chord runs strongly through this thread.</strong>

You are certainly in an emotionally abusive situation, which can be a precursor to physical abuse. Your H seems to act very disrespectfullly.

My guess from huis reaction to the email correspondence with other men is that he still has feelings for you, but he is a bully and probably suffers from low self esteem. So he blames you for his unhappiness and feels better when he belittles you.

You need to set some boundaries as to what behavior you will not stand for.

wifey,

I guess the question I have is what are your own plans about the fact you currently have a husband who is...

not participating in the family
extremely defensive
full of blame
and angry

I am wondering why I should not go along with what he wants. If I am against him it makes things so much worse than if I just stay quiet and try to swallow how angry I am. I am not allowed to mention his contact with the OW as that is just me rehashing old crap. He gets very angry and will turn up the radio, cut me off, turn on a video game or just walk away from me whenever I talk about something he doesn't like.

expecting love and respect to exist between spouses is not being "against" someone...

having boundaries that make you and your spouse feel safe when concerning other people is not unrealistic..in a marriage...

having disagreements AND learning how to hash them out productively is the goal of a marraige...not withdrawl, video games and anger..

you are a full participant in patterns that serve no good..
hurt both parties
increase frustration and isolation for both parties
set up patterns that will spill over into rearing the children..how will you two ever agree on discipline issues, etc if you don't know how to?


also want to let everyone know he recently found out I was corresponding via e-mail with two men. One I talk with about dogs and dog training and occasionally we bring up the marriage. The other is in a similar situation as me and we taklk about our marriages. I don't love any man other than my husband. I am totally comfortable with him reading anything I wrote and would give it to him if he asked.

You must stop both correspondences...both are innapropriate...to be discussing marriage issues one on one with other men...is not fair to your husband...and you are way way way to vulnerable with the way things are...even if you don't see it..
also you can not tell or ask your husband to cease his interactions if you are doing the same thing....

I know it sounds awful, but I felt better when I heard this. I have been so worried for so long that he would abandon me with the children it was a relief.

I have great and grave concerns about this ...basically this guy has said I am staying here and will treat you like crap...and that comforted you..

would you want any of your own children to live a day as you do in your marriage..
would be proud to learn that any of your sons treat their wives the way you are treated...

There is something seriously amiss when one spouse treats the other spouse as the enemy...

I think you need counselling today....
I think the longer you find comfort in him being "there" even if the price is that he is a beast to you...is the warning flag that should scare you...
that your own behavior and reaction is what you should focus on...not his childish crap..
and figure out why you allow such in your home all at the price of just having him home...

what are YOUR thoughts on this wifey..
what do you want..
what is your plan to get to where you want to be...
you are floundering and he is acting like a caged shark...

blessings to you...
ARK

Good morning.

I will address some of the isssues brought up in responses.

I honestly do not know what my plan is in this situation. I can make him leave and break apart my family or I can stay and hope things will get better and that he will "come around" eventually.
None of the choices I am left with at this point are nice or what I wanted. Both are enormously painful.

I do not know what it is like to live in a normal relationship. I have always had a dysfunctional life and it always surprises me the way things are for other people. To me, that is not normal.

I know I should get counseling. I have major abandonment issues from being left by the side of the road when I was 7 and also my first husband threw me out when I was 16 and had an 11 day old infant. He left me in the rain in front of the Y and I begged him to let me stay. I have been physically and sexually abused.

All throughout my life my things have been placed in garbage bags when people are "done" with me. I have been tossed around from one home to the next. My husband is the only person who has stayed in my life for longer than a few years.

I get so scared when he talks about leaving me that I am willing to do anything for him to stay. I know it is sick and pathetic, BUT the hope that he will one day be the person he was keeps me hanging in there. I don't understand what happened to the person I knew.

Every time I get counseling things get worse at home. He thinks I am "talking" about him and would be furious that I am posting on a public forum. He would tell you I am amking a bigger issue of this than it is or that I am exaggerating. I'm not sure what is true after a while.

I know people tell me all the time that I am intelligent and beautiful and a very nice person. I don't see this when I look at myself. I just see someone that has never been good enough or special enough for anyone to stay.

I feel weird posting this to a board, but it is very hard for me to talk about my feelings. I almost never do. When I try to tell my husband about my life he puts his fingers in his ears or just tells me to save the $30 bottle of wine.

All of my life people have taught me to be quiet, be good and maybe you can stay another day.

You ask if I would be ashamed of my son if he treated his wife this way? I would, but honestly sometimes I think everyone treats others the way I get treated. I know my husband is nice in public. I figure maybe that is how things are.

Hope this has given you a bit of background info on my situation....

<small>[ December 02, 2003, 07:42 AM: Message edited by: wittlewifeypoo ]</small>

I do not know what it is like to live in a normal relationship. I have always had a dysfunctional life and it always surprises me the way things are for other people. To me, that is not normal.

I know people tell me all the time that I am intelligent and beautiful and a very nice person. I don't see this when I look at myself. I just see someone that has never been good enough or special enough for anyone to stay.

All of my life people have taught me to be quiet, be good and maybe you can stay another day.

You have some serious self-esteem issues which are justifiably so. However, you have the power to stop this NOW. How about treating people as if they can stay another day in your life? You are good enough. You have children who look up to you for courage, guidance and an example. Are you going to perpetuate this cycle or are you going to start a new one? This is YOUR life--not everyone else's to control. If you have the strength and courage to post here, then you have it within you to stand up for yourself.

What about loving G*D and yourself first? When you love yourself, then you are open for others to love you as you should be loved and cherished. ARK is right. You need counselling. If not for yourself, then do it for the future of your children and their relationships.

I have been where you are. I have a very good idea you feel and see yourself. It's because you are good enough that you must do this. I know you want help. That's why you are here. You've come to the right place.

{{{{{{{{{{{wittlewifeypoo}}}}}}}}}}}

I do not know what it is like to live in a normal relationship.

well the good news is...no the great news is..is that that doesn't mean that you can't have a healthy relationship..
doesn't mean you don't deserve a healthy relationship...
just means you have to learn how to..
and the truth is that even the healthiest of marriages are works in progress...
no good marriages exist externally...good marriages exist when people work on making them good..

hope is a good thing...a great thing...but just hoping won't change anything....

I get so scared when he talks about leaving me that I am willing to do anything for him to stay.
that's sounds like it must be pretty scary and lonely for you...
And yet what is it you fear...not being told all those negative and painful things...every day..
feeling good about yourself..

Every time I get counseling things get worse at home. He thinks I am "talking" about him and would be furious that I am posting on a public forum. He would tell you I am amking a bigger issue of this than it is or that I am exaggerating. I'm not sure what is true after a while.

that is such a common common response...god forbid you get healthy because you will realize the right and ability you have to make and set boundaries that are safe and nurturing...and then how does he treat you...

you must get counseling today...and wifey...I am not one to throw lables of abuse and such lightly but now that you have disclosed your history...in conjuction with his treatment...I believe you should seek out counsel and guidance from a shelter...

his behavior would be enough to try the patience of someone with excellant coping skills...and with yours being so fragile too non-existant..I am very afraid that you will live the way you are today for a long long time..
and that's no way to live..
you deserve to have you life filled with people who support you and you can support...
filled with people who respect you and you can respect.

you deserve to be able to lay down each night and find the rest you need to strengthen and nurture you so you can raise your children to be healthy adults...not lay next to someone who threatens and belittles you...

you deserve these things because all humans deserve dignity in their lives...you are no different than any of us....

seek support today..
you will find you are not alone
you will learn how much you are in control of you and your surroundings..
you will learn to speak your mind and peace without fear...

you are worthy of all of this...

ARK

UPDATE:
Just thought I'd check in to let everyone know how things are going and my thoughts and feelings...


Last night I didn't get to leave my second job until after 8 PM.
I had made my husband dinner over there to save time as our old house is very close to my other job's location.

We came home and the older girls wanted to watch "The Simple Life" on TV. There was only about 14-15 minutes left. I watched it with them and husband just started storming around the house looking for things that were wrong.

I continued to watch the show with the girls. I guess he went to take a shower and there wasn't any more clean towels and the little one had left a few of her Barbie things in the tub. That was it for the entire night.

He told me how he was so pissed that I wasn't keeping up after the house. That it should look perfect if I am here all day. That I should be governing the condition of the middle girls bedroom more. That the bathroom that they use frequently always has stuff on the floor.... You get the idea. Keep in mind everyone else says my hoime is incredibly clean.

I work two jobs- one from home (telecommuting)and the other is a personal assistant job. We have four children and I take care of all of them in addition to this. I do not have daycare- I watch them all while I work.

Then he went on to tell me how me making him a sandwich in the morning for work and making him dinner was not going to "fix" things. I told him that I hoped when he ate the sandwich when he was hungry mid day at work or when he returned from work tired and hungry that these things would show that I care about him.

He just told me "whatever- I don't have time to think of you during the day.."

I had begun to fix him dinner every night and make him snacks for work and in the morning as I feel his love language is "acts of service"

I then went on to praise him about his working very hard for our family, sympathized with him about having to work so hard on the other house, sympathized with him about all of his work responsibilities and how it must be disappointing to come home and not have things the way he wants them to be...

I did also tell him that as a woman it is hard to be motivated to go that extra mile as far as domestic work when you feel so neglected. I let him know I was lonely and felt unloved and unappreciated. I told him I did not trust him when he told me he would be certain places as he has done nothing to earn back any trust.

I also let him know that I feel like my whole life has been taken from me in the last 1.5 years. That everything was different for me and nothing was good or nice for me anymore. I told him that until he rids himself of the idea that this other person is perfect and better I can't fix anything. I let him know I cannot compete with a single carefree woman with none of the responsibilities I have.

He told me it "was his problem". That he was over the initial anger of the housework. That it didn't matter to him. That everything was fine. I let him know that i would try harder in that area because I did not want him to bury issues that made him unhappy. I feel this was a big factor in what happened leading to his relationship wioth another woman. He was unhappy- yet he said nothing about what exactly was making him feel that way. I thought things were fine.

I asked him to tell me if he was seeing someone else so that I may move on with my life. He just blew it all off and asked me
"Would you tell me if you were going to see someone else?" I told him that of course I would...
Then he's like "Yeah right" "Afternoons are best" referring to one of my e-mails to a man I talk to re: dogs/dog training strictly via e-mail to let him know it was better to e-mail me and get a response in the afternoon.

He told me he didn't trust me. I told him he had a lot of nerve telling me that considering what he's done to me. He has met OW in person and had lunch/talks with her on the phone. I am just penpals with someone else.

Then I told him that if he was done with this marriage to let me know so I could get some closure and peace. He told me he HAS been telling me this all along. He's been done for years- I just don't listen to him.

Of course, this upset me. He goes from telling me we'll be married for life in another conversation a few minutes before to this... Am I just not accepting what he's telling me?

I cried all last night into the morning. I left the room so as not to disturb him. He wanted to go to bed at nine. Yet he can play video games until 2 am without any thought or blame as to how tired he is.
If I keep him up he is livid.

I mentioned to him that I know in reading those damn self help books that my "love language" is probably physical touch. He just let me cry and lay there- no comforting no nothing. it was terrible. I asked him to please tell me things would be fine- he did but it was loaded with sarcasm.

This morning he saw my face and looked like he felt bad. I made him his sandwich and sat with him while he ate breakfast. He kissed me before we got up and before he left he knelt down next to me and held my hand and kissed me again. I told him that he had to make a decision about what he wants. I can't do this anymore. If he is done then after we sell the other house we have to begin to try and bring this to an end. He just shushed me and said
"Wifey...." like don't get started on this again.

So here I sit today again not sure where my life stands and how to feel.....

Does anyone feel that this plan A is working. Why is he so resentful of what
I'm trying to do and so critical? How do I know if he truly does have feelings for me or if he is bailing on this marriage? He
could technically just be "hanging in there" until our other home sells. How do I get on with my life when I feel so unready to let go? How can I tell if he is still seeing this woman. I don't even know who she is.... I know she exists as Dday was when I caught them on the phone. He will tell me nothing about her.

Help!

<small>[ December 18, 2003, 07:55 AM: Message edited by: wittlewifeypoo ]</small>

I'll stick with my previous statement -- he sounds like a manipulating bully to me.

I do not think that shows of "weakness" on your part are constructive -- crying, asking about OW, etc.

His behavior has to change. You need to set boundaries as to what you will put up with. He has to treat you with respect and be consistent in that, not allow you to be his punching bag when he feels like bullying some one.

You should identify the behaviors that are lovebusters to you, explain them to him, and be consitent in not accepting them without comment/challenge.