Coping with destructive words (warning: abuse content)

My abused WS seems to immediately vent her anger (when it infrequently occurs) on me by saying really horrible things to me that I am having difficulty getting out of my mind particularly when I am near her.

Examples of some of the things would be:
1) I only have sex with you to shut you up. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
2) if you keep this up I'm gonna screw OM again <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />
3) when you have sex with me its like being raped again <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />
4) I've hated every minute of sex with you in our 11 years.

It seems like she deliberately tries to focus on the most destructive hurtful things she can. I really don't deserve to be talked to like that do I?

When she does speak she does see me as her future though and me with her. Trouble is I begin to see me without her when stuff like this comes up.

Can anyone suggest any coping strategies? Ben Richards

[ July 17, 2002, 09:15 AM: Message edited by: The Running Man ]

my H says things like this also, we are separated, and in process of divorce, he has said horrible things to me,
1) called me bi*** many times
2) i can't fulfill his fantasies, etc
3) we don't have sex often enough
4) we've been married 3 years, and i still haven't learned anything. etc.

you can imagine what this makes me feel like, he knows he is my first, i'm doing plan A, but no change, he still sure he wants OW, and that things wouldn't work with me, just holding in all my anger and praying that he comes out of the fog before divorce goes through.

TRM,

My first H was verbally abusive and there were no affairs. I understand the whole WS fog thing, but I don't think you should put up with these comments. My current H (WS) tried to bully me with his words, but I found on a web site that I was only betraying myself by allowing it to go on. My H knew he could intimidate me and I'd back down if I confronted him on an issue. Finally, when the timing was right, I told my H that I thought what he did was borderline abusive and I wouldn't allow him to continue. He agreed that he's a dirty fighter and said he'd stop. That was about 1 1/2 years ago and it's only happened once since (about 6 months after our talk).

I would suggest you speak to your W about these comments. I would paste the link to the site, but I don't think it works anymore.

Good luck and let me know how it goes!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

"1) I only have sex with you to shut you up. [Frown]
2) if you keep this up I'm gonna screw OM again [Teary]
3) when you have sex with me its like being raped again [Teary] [Teary]
4) I've hated every minute of sex with you in our 11 years."

TRM you need to ask yourself why you are putting up with this disrespectful relationship which is making you miserable. If it is your fear of being alone or low esteem than get therapy. The kind of statements that your wife has made would have most men filing for divorce and moving on.

Well I think I am putting up with them for a few reasons.

1) I do love her and am not ready to end yet.
2) She only speaks to me like this when she is very low and has possibly had alcohol.
3) Apparently it is a very common symptom of abuse. Her A just makes it all the more destructive to me.

If your Partner treats you this way what is the best method of dealing with it? Normally I try and gently talk it through rather than shout, but then I feel like I'm not being true to the hurt caused to me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> or perhaps its just to volatile and I should walk out to calm us both down? anyone?

Ben Richards

Dear Ben,

Could we trade WW ?, you would not be able to tell the different LOL !!!. Being in plan A doesn't mean you have to take the abusive behavior.

I walked away from my WW w/ not even a word in response or hung up the phone ... I used to get emotional and WW use it as me abusing her verbally <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> . My WW knew she had done terrible mistake, she is not happy with her life (even now w/ OM) and she blamed it on me.

If you are in plan A you could told her that you disagree with her asessment but "we are adult we could agree to disagree, now let talk about ....". Shift the focus to what business you need to talk to her, do nothing to retaliate and walk away if you can not take it.

Do not take it personally ... the aliens is talking ...

-RH-

[ July 18, 2002, 11:58 AM: Message edited by: redhat ]

Hey, do I make noise when I talk??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Tell your wife that what she is doing is abusive and you will no longer put up with it. Let her know that when she makes those comments you will remove yourself from the situation by leaving the house or the room so she can cool off or by holding your hand up as her sign. These are your boundaries! State them, then keep them!

TRM, a person doesn't know your boundaries unless you tell them and you are allowing her to walk all over yours.

Check out this site by the authors of the boundaries books: http://cloudtownsend.com

<blockquote>quote:<hr />My abused WS seems to immediately vent her anger<hr /></blockquote>Can you explain this? Was your W abused growing up? Did you abuse her? Just need a clarification.

[ July 18, 2002, 03:25 PM: Message edited by: Free2BMe ]

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Was your W abused growing up?<hr /></blockquote>Yes her father abused her. We only found out last year, she is in counselling. It's a mess.

Last night we had another *abusive* session of all the things wrong with me. I tried to stop her but she wouldn't , kept saying "u wont let my anger out" well I tried not to LB back but it was impossible. It was a mess. Yesterday she was "done" with me, "cant do this anymore", "you should be over it its been 6 months I'm over it", "I dont have problems with you its the abuse but to you the A is more", etc etc.

Should I pay a lot of attention to these things as being the truth? I suggested that I was "done" to that we should divorce, she didn't want that, I kept repeating what she said "So WS you're saying you don't love me anymore and that you don't care for me anymore that you've switched off" she immediately replies "I didn't say that" thru the tears. Course at one point she replied "I want my Dad & Mom" but I had to say "I know but I can't get them for you" (they abused her real bad <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Help? Ben Richards

You mentioned that she speaks this way when she is low and that alcohol may be a factor...is she an alcoholic?

No she is not an alcoholic. She only drinks on occasion and rarely at that.

I'm sorry for the abuse your W has endured, but I don't think this gives her a right to pass that abuse on to you. When she says you never let her vent her anger, could you suggest a better way for her to do it? You are not the target, you didn't inflict the pain on her! Does that make sense? My H was abused by his mother and at times I've had to remind him that I'm not his mother - I'm not his enemy!

You seem to be in a very touchy situation. Do you go to counseling with her? Can you discuss this with her counselor? How about you - are you in counseling?

God bless! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Ben,

Not until she filed, everything is talk. I don't know if you want to do this but if you could avoid to take it personally, you might have killed 2 birds at once by listening to her. IMVHO, she needs to let her anger out if you could hold your self and just say hmm or oh, now I know your feeling ... just to let her anger out, she is in a need right now and you are being the adult one. Remember Venus's vents are not for you to do anything ... Second, listen to her vent, she might feel that you never listen to her and she is 100% right. So make a lists of her greivence, don't easily discard them ... some of them are excuse/justification but some of them are the real thing ... she is telling you how to plan A'ng her. When she hit the right point, apologize to her what you have done and promise her yo will do anything within your power to change that. When she told you an outlandish one, you told her that let's leave it as agree to disagree and come back to discuss it later. Get as much as plan A list from her !!!!!.

Correct me if I am wrong, I do not beleive she told you sentences from your first post right away ... she did it since she is very frustrated. Ben, be compationate and learn how to listen. What you give her today will go very long way toward your M recovery.

Hang in there and vent in here ... -RH-

TRM,

I think this is a great thread you started and I hope you are getting something out of it.

I agree with most of what RH is saying - I do agree you should let her vent and you should support her recovery and listen. 100% I agree with this.

But...

If you allow her to verbally abuse you then you are teaching her it's okay to treat you that way.

Please set some healthy boundaries with your W in regard to her venting her anger!

God bless!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I found the web site I was referring to in an earlier post. www.myndtalk.org

Hope it helps!

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Free2BMe:
I agree with most of what RH is saying - I do agree you should let her vent and you should support her recovery and listen. 100% I agree with this.<hr /></blockquote>Thanks all, I think too that this is key. In the following days she was very different towards me. I am trying to not jump in and attack or retaliate.

It's a tough one though. I find myself going thru mood swings about talking to her.

Like when I wrote the last post above I thought "yes this is the ebst way", but today I'm all "jeez why do I put up with this crapshoot?"

It's something of a rollercoaster that I have to protect myself against. Yesterday I tried getting clarification on something she'd said hurtful to me. That simple question turned into an LB that took all day for her to get over! Ben

Ben,

You might need a medication to help you out. I had paxil helping me out for a few months but I have to cut it out since I need to concentrate on my work and now I am out of it. I was in the cloud under paxil <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

-RH-

RH, been on meds for awhile but they made me like a zombie and I got in trouble with my job <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> so I had to come off them.

I have been OK off them though, I have felt better off than on! Ben.

The Running Man,

How about hit and run ? ... I talk to my WW when she is nice and when she starts her attack, I am either telling her I get another call and will call later or play "low batery" and hung up if you an on your cell. Call her an hour or so later.

I guess you can't play with word to butt head with the fog ... what you could do is write down which one that cause a trigger to you and when she hit it you will be more aware & ready. You write down her unreasonable justification ... chances are she will repeat again and you will be ready w/ you plan A answer. For some reason while in the fog WS like to repeat sentences over and over again ... more like mantra.

-RH-

I was much more confident in the last argument, I was also much more restrained. I feel much better about handling myself in these situations now that I will be ready if it blows up again.

More importantly perhaps I'm also learning how to listen better and not take everything so literally, or if I do I reask later to reaffirm. Then at least I know properly and can work on it.

Just wish she was working to the same goal as me, would make it so much easier. She just doesn't "get" that she needs to help recovery.

Ben.

Good, never take them personaly otherwise your LB$ will be drained so fast. There is nothing you could do other than wait until they came out of the fog ... on their own. I know this is suck but this is a curved ball throwed to us in our journey.

Hang in there, Ben.
-RH-

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by redhat:
There is nothing you could do other than wait until they came out of the fog ... on their own.<hr /></blockquote>You see thou' the A has been over since March and yet there's little progress, she's been ill much the whole year with child abuse stuff but do you still think she is in a Fog? She doesn't talk about missing OM at all, in fact hasn't talked much bout him since March.

I think we are in some sort of screwed up recovery <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by The Running Man:
I think we are in some sort of screwed up recovery <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> <hr /></blockquote>Could both of you get Steve or Jennifer to coach ?. When A ends and M still in limbo, both of you are in danger of bunkrupting LB$ !. If OM persue W, he might get her back again. Get a third party to mediate the problem.

-RH-

We cant get ionto MC bcos her doctors believe that the Abuse Counselling needs to be handled first and that this whole lot would be waaay to much pressure for her.

I tend to agree but it's not making it any easier for me. I'm just trying to be the best I can and take care of hers and my needs as best I can.

Ben.

I did pretty good last night. I knew something was bothering her, she'd spoken to my brother earlier in the day.

She'd said stuff to him about being confused bout what she wanted over and I thought this was a little weird. But she told me that she was just a bit low that point in the day and was much better now. I asked if she wanted to discuss what my brother said, she asked what he had said. I told her and she got a little quiet particularly when I said that she had said "she was afraid of hurting me more". I don't know what that means. She became quiet so I said did she want to talk another time that this was hard right now? She said yes so I left it at that.

I got some personal time in on the evening out in the yard with the basketball and later that night she was more attentive and touchy as if nothing happened. Ben.

The Running Man,

You are not in recovery but you are in plan A ... A ended but there is no commitment to work on M.
About MC ... as usual, if SO is not available for MC, most of us get help to plan A from Steve or Jennifer individually. Actually MC could help her out in her IC on abused. What more you could have from working & feeling being loved more than having undivided care & protection from SO ?. You know better the situation but I tend to beleive that it will help your W.
-RH-

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Redhat that's a hard one to swallow. I perhaps had been thinking that we were in recovery <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I have been getting Plan A counselling that's why my ill advised bad Plan A is now a much better Plan A. I feel I am doing good in it right now despite her having massive mood swings from one extreme to another.

What practically should I be looking for in a "committment from her to work on M"? Because I may have already had that discussion but missed/ignored it?

Ben.

Dear Ben,

A is ended ... PA or EA w/ OM but your W still not convinced yet that this M could be "fix" ... she is mad to the current situation ... even probably to herself too. You have a chance to show her that this could work out ... so you are in plan A. I know this is suck but listen ... listen ... listen to her complaint !!!. Apologize what you have done wrong and states actions that you have done or actions that you are willing to "fix" it ... Avoid the excuse and don't engage or debate it with her ... say anything to move on to diferent subject or you could tell her that you disagree but both of you are adult and could agree to disagree !. Ben, she needs you the most right now ... affirm your love to her at all chances you have. She had been searching for "happiness" but didn't find it on you neither on OM ... she has to find it within herself ... hopefully with your help <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . You have to let her come on her own term ... THERE IS NO RECOVERY UNTIL BOTH OF YOU WILLINGLY TO WORK ON M.

Print out trueheart's letter to WS and give it to her, let her know that you have been learning about MB and your situation is not unique ... let her know that you love her and willing to do anything to rebuild and having better & fulfilling M. Let her know that there are many couples that pass through the same road and end up in happier M in recovery ... Let her know that you don't want your M before A since that one is prone to A ...

Hang in there, Ben. -RH-

Thanks RH, actually I have printed out Trueheart's letter and she has read it. I think there is a committment to our M, just that she has not vocalized it as such. She has said she "want's to be with me".

Ben.

Ben ... <======== <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ==========>

This is the time to show how deep your love is and it will go along way ... keep chipping bit by bit and hope one of this day her wall will crumbling down. 'Till then have a lot of patience and do nothing ... i.e no LB'ed.

-hxk-

Thanks RH. She is away now upstate til Sunday, but she keeps ringing me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I am pretty settled now. I am also making sure that I don't get drawn into her rollercoaster of emotions.

When she is really low I stay calm and when she is showing signs of being happy I don't read to much into it. Then when she comes crashing down I'm still OK.

I'm gonna concentrate on getting some time for myself this weekend. Ben.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by The Running Man:
When she is really low I stay calm and when she is showing signs of being happy I don't read to much into it. Then when she comes crashing down I'm still OK.
<hr /></blockquote>Ben, I would like to sugest slightly different version of your post ... "When she is really low I stay calm and when she is showing signs of being happy I don't read to much into it. Then when she comes crashing down I'll be there to help her & comfort her <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ".

-take care-

Thanks RH,

Actually I have had very good times these last few days and she is beginning to open up and be much more positive.

I am worried though that it will crumble, it's almost like I am expecting something to go wrong after days of being good avoiding LB'ing, her good time at her Aunt's etc. It's almost like I am afraid to have a good time <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Ben.

Ben,
Try to hold yourself in LB'ed ... don't judge, don't expect anything ... I know it is hard but this is the only way to let her work her way out from the fog.
-RH-

I know RH. It is a real strain for some reason. I thought after she went away at the end of last week she'd have a bit of a rest and be a little stronger. Doesn't seem like it.

It's hard work when she talks and you know you don't have any answers. I just listen and try and validate like the abuse books say, but I'm no therapist. I don't see any change in her after the therapy she is having twice a week at top $$$. Guess I just have to keep going.

This sounds bad but I'd like advice on. She wants SF but I am so drained and concerned that I often think "Jeez I don't know if I can do this". SF is a major EN for me though and I think it's up there on her list. But of course the abuse has tainted her view of sexual activity and sex within relationships. So I feel kinda stuck. No doubt it helps her show she loves me as well as a tension releaver for us both, she gives me so little in return for what I do right now that it seems harsh to feel this way?

Ben.

Ben,

Plan A is forever ... for now is suck 'cause you are doing all the work and get a bit in return (some of us get nothing). However when you are both on the same page, both of you will learn how to give & take to create fulfilling M.
W/ SF ... you have to fill in and viagra might help. Let her give whatever she could, how little she could ... for woman giving SF is about showing "love" ... she has a choice not to. Many WH will be willing to give anything to stay in your shoes ... count on your blessing and have a lot of patience. Get IC to help you to deal w/ her abuse ... even going to her IC for yourself.

-Take Care- RH

Thanks Redhat,

I have been doing IC on her abuse and my wellbeing for awhile now.

I want the light at the end of the tunnel, bit it's switched off at the moment, I want to stride down there and switch it on myself but I have to do all these things on her timeframe. Even as BS I don't get to choose my recovery, I seem to have zero control over it.

Is there any ways in which I can view SF as a positive thing from her? Any ladies or WS's comment? How do I do it and not think Huh? You'll do this but you don't say I wanna be with you or I love you?

Ben.
The best way out is always through.

Ben,

I am not ladies nor WS ... LOL !!!. No Coment ... only one thing about SF. I prefered make love not only have sex. If sex is there then you could ignite "love making" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ... it is impossible the other way around.

You 've learned to let her comes out on her own, that is good. You might be able to interfere but you might never get fulfilling relationship later. Our goal is not to save this M but to plow the path to fulfilling M, the one that full of care & protection. Just have faith ... many had been travel your path.

-RH-

RH,

Her interest seems to have tailed off now anyways. I spent some time talking to her gently as she asked about helping me which is something of a first. She is afraid of coming here for help and just I think wants to brush the A under the carpet. The abuse is the focus and I understand that too.

Thankfully in all our conversations recently she hasn't reverted to the abusive comments which is something. Ever onward eh?

Ben.

Ben,

Wait in patience and just listen to her complain ... remember venus most of the time just want martian to listen and not to solve the issues. Hold on your anger, you know what is the cause. Make it safe for her to open up ... meanwhile just affirm you love for her. If her top ENs is affection ... gave her love notes, hugs and a lot of detail attentions. You could fight this Ben ... you are on the right track.

Thank for you post to wrongout ... it will help you out to focus on somthing other than your own and help others in the process <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> .

-RH-

I don't know what her EN's are though I have to guess. She has been anti-me again this past week, very annoyed with me, very angry at me, would prefer if I was not around at times. It's totally weird, totally tiring and very hard when you love the person.

I'm wondering just how long this Plan A can realistically keep going under these conditions with no give or support from her. I fear I am becoming co-dependent, I don't seem now to have a life outside of her woes.

Ben.

Ben,

Get conseling w/ MB. Steve might be able to better access your situations. About EN ... yes, you have to guess ... remember what make your WW happy before D-Day and after D-day.

About co-dependent ... don't worry. Get really busy and pack your schedule w/ activities that you always want to do. Waiting is a very hard activity you need some distractions.

-RH-

Thanks RH, have my MC arranged for Friday. I won't be around much now until Tuesday as I'm keeping very busy at both work and at home.

Lawyer was pretty good, made me feel comfortable about my situation and finances if it gets bad.

WW has been calling non-stop, I've left the phone on voicemail for the most part. Don't have the nerve to talk right now.

Ben.