I'm not included in his finances!! - Marriage Builders® Forums

My husband and I have been married for almost 7 months now and to date we still don't have a joint account. A month after we got married he asked me to close my accounts because he was going to be adding me to his accounts, seven months later not only do I not have accounts of my own I don't have joint accounts with my husband either. My payroll check gets direct deposited to an account that is under his name only. He told me three months ago that he would be adding me to this account and to this date he hasn't done that. Every time I mention this issue tp him. He asks me why am I so worried about it. "It's not like I'm going to run off with your money". I tell him it's not about me not trusting him with my money, it's about us being a whole, me feeling as if I am a part of his life. He doesn't understand where I'm coming from. He makes 10 times more money than I do. He thinks that because he is the provider in the house, he should be aloud to manage my money also. He makes comments about him paying my credit card debts and being in charge of all the financial aspects of the household, therefore I shouldn't worry about my name not being added to any of his accounts let alone his property. I feel as though I have given him plenty of time to take care of the bank accounts and hasn't. Therefore, I have decided to open a checking account of my own with a payroll check I've been saving for a month now. I will then switch my direct deposit to my own account. I will inform him of what I have done after I take care of it all.Please advise me. Do you think I am doing the right thing here?Marcy

Ah, money. Such an unsavory topic. You have a lot more going on here than just finances. Your H is exercising control in a most disturbing way. The first thing that comes to mind is an even more unsavory topic. Given your current circumstances, your situation would be nothing short of disastrous if he died unexpectedly. You would have no access to the accounts. If he died without a will, you might have to wait until his affairs are settled through probate to gain access. Then what you would have access to would be whatever your state defines as the "pecking order" of how things are divided. My widowed MIL died without a will, and my H had to post a huge bond just to be the executor. It was a nightmare. Your more immediate red flag is the issue of trust within your marriage. Your H indicated he would add your name to the account. His failure to do so is damaging your ability to trust him. His actions do not have your own best interests at heart. If he has things that he brought into the marriage that he wants to keep in his own name, fine. If he posessed savings prior to the marriage that he wants in an account under his own name, fine. Denying you access to the household budget funds is NOT fine. If the duties for paying bills, balancing the checkbook, etc. are things he wants to do, consider yourself blessed (as long as he doesn't bounce checks and let the lights go out!). On the other hand, if he is deliberately withholding access to the household budget from you because he wants to control you, I'll be extremely worried about your safety and well being. If he becomes angry with you for getting your own account, consider it a huge indicator of something seriously wrong. Possibly it's just an oversight and he has no ill intent. In either case, I suggest that you not give up your own account until you fully understand what's behind his actions. He needs to be honest with you and you need to trust each other. Without those two things, your marriage will be an empty shell.

The key word is TRUST. I always feel as though he doesn't trust me but then again he doesn't trust anyone. He always feels like everyone is out to get him. I having a feeling that he thinks I married him for what he has, which is not the case at all. I don't like to think this way but I do. He is a very insecurity makes him feel that way. My H is a very way he is able to have control over me is money wise. How is that, you might ask? Well, to start of, all I get a month is $400 a month ($200 on the 15th & $200 @ the end of the month) for lunch money or whatever I may need. It's never enough for me. When I run out of money, he always asks me how did I spend my money. Therefore, I basically have to give him a break down on where it went. I ask him why does he always need to know everything. His response is "I can figure out how you spent all your money already". I try to tell him to stop trying to control how I spend my money. He thinks that's not the case. I will continue on Monday. Please reply.

I have trust and honesty problems in my own marriage, so I'm at a bit of a loss on how to offer you help here. What I can tell you is what a huge mistake it is to cave in to his demands thinking it's the right thing to do or that it will make him or you happy. I've been reading Boundaries in Marriage and applying them in my own marriage (needed them about 13 years ago). First, boundaries need to be set in a loving way (yuk, puke, let me LB!). I fall into LBs alot even though I know better. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

[Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

If I were in your shoes I'd say, first, that you consider it important to have access to a bank account. If he's not willing to share one with you, try as best you can to respect that (if you have a frying pan in your hand, conceal it at all costs). What's important is to state your need and for him to respect it. Don't take no for an answer. The next issue is him counting every penny of yours. Again, this appears to be a control issue and a lack of trust. If he's willing to let you examine all the activity in his accounts, then by all means let him scrutinize yours. If he wants to keep his affairs secret, you need to find out why. That may be very difficult. It's a great opportunity to bring out innermost thoughts, sharing vulnerabilities, and creating intimacy. Some of the reasons behind his actions may be painful ones. You'll need to let him know that it's safe for him to share these secrets, fears, or whatever's behind these disturbing actions of his. If you want to get a book that will help, get Boundaries in Marriage. Or start with reading through the humongous thread about this book in the woman's bible study group.

Yesterday, I asked my H about him taking care of adding me to the account where my direct deposit goes too. His response was "I'll see if I have time". He never seems to have the time to take care of it. So, yesterday I decided to go to the bank. I open a sav/checking with an insurance check I received for a minor accident I had. I haven't told him about it yet. Since I am upset with him for another reason (see the conflict section). I know he is going to be very upset when I tell him. Because when I told him if he didn't take care of the account situation this week I was going to cancel the direct deposit. His response was "If you do that, you'll see what's going to happen". That's what convinced me right away to just do it. I guess we'll see what happens.

_[This message has been edited by LLL (edited November 20, 2000).]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>when I told him if he didn't take care of the account situation this week I was going to cancel the direct deposit. His response was "If you do that, you'll see what's going to happen". That's what convinced me right away to just do it. I guess we'll see what happens. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Marcy, I am so concerned about you. Even if the threat is an idle one, his response is most worrisome. He doesn't trust you, and he's giving you reasons not to trust him. He's told you repeatedly that you would be added to the account. His actions don't match his words. What I hear his actions saying is one or possibly both of the following: 1) he's deliberately lying and has no intention of adding you to the account; and/or 2) honoring his word is less important than 15 minutes of his time. Sometimes I think I see things upside down and sideways, so maybe you'll think I'm overreacting. But I think anyone here at MB would agree that there's a lack of trust happening here. Without trust your marriage will deteriorate even more. That's easy to say, of course. My H withholds his innermost thoughts from me, I guess because I've made the mistake of pouncing on his sensitivities in the past and he doesn't feel safe confiding in me. You owe it to your marriage to set boundaries so that unacceptable behaviors are "kept outside the fence." I can't tell you how to accomplish the task unfortunately, but I can offer some suggestions. Do you think lack of time is really the reason he hasn't added you to the account? (I don't) See if you can find out what the real reason is. Be firm about having access to a bank account and even firmer about him being honest with you about this. Tell him access to an account is important to you and list five reasons why. Tell him it's important that you can depend on him (to follow through with his promises). Tell him it's important for you to feel safe with him and his threats frighten you. And don't let go of your own account until the two of you can enthusiastically agree on how your finances will be handled. HTH

I have tried so on several occasion to talk to him in a civilized manner. I don't get upset. I ask him questions as to why he hasn't added me to anything. At this point I don't want to be add to anything. He thinks because he provides me with everything I need including a 5500 sq ft house that I shouldn't have anything to complain about. He says "you should appreciate what you have. You should be happy you don't live in a s**t hole (meaning my mom's hous)." The house wasn't my choice. He bought it before we got engaged. His favorite line is "Ah poor thing, your so deprived". I tell him that's not the point to the issue. I tell him he doesn't make me feel as though I'm his wife. I don't know anything about our finances and if there are pass codes to anything I don't even know those. I'm lucky I have the privilege to know the pass code to the alarm system. We have a computer with our own login, well he assigned my login pass code. But I'm not allowed know his. This is how bad my situation is and his stubborness doesn't help us either. I don't give up that easy. But right now I feel as though it might be the best thing to do. I don't know how much of this I can take.

Have you tried shifting the focus away from money? It sounds like you value a certain degree of independence. He needs to respect that. If he brought 99% of the assets to the marriage, he may feel justified in handling his affairs according to his preference. There must be some middle ground where you can start sharing some vulnerabilities and building up trust. Maybe revisiting the reasons you two got married. If you wanted a nice house and he wanted a cook and a maid, you've got a fairly empty framework on a shaky foundation. Start from ground zero and see if you can't find some solid ground you can both share.

Money is not the issue here. It's a build up of many different things. I will do my best to do what I can to resolve them. I will keep you posted on what happens. Thank you so much for your input. I appreciate it.Marcy

Since we hadn't been talking for the past 3 days, I wasn't able to tell him I open the accounts & switched my direct deposit. Well, I finally told him this morning over the phone. At first he thought I was joking. He had to call me back at work 3 times to confirm that I was telling him the truth and to tell me he couldn't believe what I did. When I told him I was serious about it. He got upset. He asked "How could you do this to me? "I told you I would be adding you to the account this week." "You went against me." He felt as though I disrespected him. I told him "what about how I feel" "I waited patiently for 7 months and nothing happened". I told him I wanted to feel independent. I was tired of asking him for money or ask him if I could use the credit card. He said "I guess it won't be not necessary for me to add you to my account anymore". I asked him why not? He said because of how I handle it. I mentioned that by me having a ck acct I won't have to ask him for permission to use the credit card anymore. He said (and I quote him) "If you were a guy I would say you have some balls to do what you did". He asked me to think about what I wanted to do about this situation so when I get home we can talk about it. I don't think there is anything to think about. I want to give this a try and see how it works out. He was trying to make me feel guilty about the whole thing.What do you think guys?

Here are my suggestions. I won't be offended in the least if you discard them. You're still a newlywed and I primarily want to encourage your efforts to tackle this problem. Ok, you told him you would be opening your own account and switching the direct deposit if you weren't added to his account by x date. Right? You have done exactly what you said you would do. That shows that you will follow through with what you say. Tell him it's a type of behavior that's important to you. Then tell him it's something you'd like to see in him. You waited seven months for him to follow through. Tell him the bank account isn't the important thing to you. Tell him you're concerned about your future because you fear that he doesn't trust you to be on the account with him. Try to find out why he's reluctant to have you on the account. If he hits a nerve or makes you angry, don't pounce on him. Let it soak in and listen very carefully to what he's saying. It'll open the pathway to further communication. Good luck marcy!

I have asked him about his trust towards me in the past. He says that is not true. I will do everything I can to get this straighten out when I get home tonigt. I want us to move forward with our lifes. I feel really good about myself (stronger) and how I've been handling myself this past week. Thank you.

I hope it goes well Marcy. Anytime actions don't match up with words, I believe the actions every time. His words say he trusts you. His actions don't. That makes it even more important for your actions to match your words. You stated a desire and a deadline. You followed through. You're being loving and showing concern for your future together. Make it safe for him to reveal whatever it is that makes him uncomfortable in adding you to the account. We want a full report afterwards!

Well, it didn't go to well this weekend. He thinks I went behind his back to open my accounts. These were his words "you stepped over me" "you went against me" "my trust for you is gone" "you went against what we agreed on" "if you wouldn't have done this, everything would be perfect". He just went on and on about how I disprepected him. By the way, his solution to this problem is for me to close my accounts and he will then add me to the checking acct which he was originally going to add me too. He did plan on adding me to the ck acct because we received the paper work in the mail on Friday. I then told him, if he can have his own savings account then I wanted to keep my own sav acct too. I told him I would keep my $400 a month spending money plus $600 a month toward my savings the rest would go to him to pay the bills. His response was "what are you afraid of" "I provide you with everything you need". I told him how important it was for me to feel independent and to not have to ask him for money every time I need it. By me having my own sav. I would feel better about myself. He said every time I ask him for something he never says no. So I shouln't be afraid. I told him to give me a good reason why is ok for him to have his own accounts and I'm not allowed. He got silent. He didn't have an answer. His answer was if this is how I want it. Then from now on I will be paying $1,000 rent, pay my own bills, cell phone, car payment, health insurance and he will never buy anything for me again or pay my bills. I told him I would move out of the house before I give him $1,000 for rent. He said "then move back to your mom's cockroach infested place". (Which is not true, he doesn't even know what a roach looks like) That really hurt my feelings. He asked me why am I still around? I told him I didn't know. He asked me what is it that I want from him? He said "tell me maybe I can give it to you". I told him I didn't want anything from him. Yesterday, he asked me if we get divorced how much would I want from him. I told him it's not about the money, it's about his behavior. I am starting to believe that he thinks all I want is his money, which is not the case. I told him I don't care about his money. I don't want anything that he had before we got married. I don't care to be put on his accounts. All I wanted was to be put on the one checking and for me to have my own sav. Well that's not good enough for him. Last night he asked me who knew about our issued. I told him no one. He kept asking me is different ways if I had told my best friend about it. I said I didn't tell anyone. He is probably to embarressed to have anyone find out how he's been acting. I don't know how much longer this is going to last. All I know is that I am not closing my accounts until he comes up with a fare solution. Otherwise, in his eyes this will be grounds for a divorce. I will probably be better off, who knows what he will come up with next. [This message has been edited by marcy (edited November 13, 2000).]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>"you stepped over me" "you went against me" "my trust for you is gone" "you went against what we agreed on" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Sorry, I'm a little confused. Those were his words to you? I thought that's how you were feeling about him? I know it's hard to get at the real issues sometimes. The description of your conversation revolves around bank accounts. The underlying issue is trust. When you said there's nothing you want from him, that may be true in terms of money, but it was answer that held back some of the details. There IS something you want from him. You want his confidence. You held back something that perhaps you find difficult to say. Sounds like he's doing the same thing. Try it again Marcy. And remember, no angry outbursts, no love busters.

Marcy, instead of playing games with him give your position to him straight. What you wanted from the start is complete sharing and disclosure of both of your finances. Niether of you should have separate accounts. All the marriages I can think of where the couple had seperate accounts were full of arguing, at least one spouse commited adultery and most of them have ended in divorce. Marriages without complete trust in the financial area are doomed. Tell him that it is nothing personal, it has nothing to do with trusting him or distrusting him. You have a perception of what marriage is about and that perception includes complete sharing. He can call it a cinderella syndrome if he likes but it is what you expected when you married him. It is what you need in order to feel that you really are married and not just a housekeeper and whore. Set your boundaries at what you want, not some half baked compromise which has resulted from playing games.

You are probably wondering if we resolved the account issue. I don't think we have but we haven't talked about it much. We had a little discussion on the topic over dinner 2 days ago. I told him if he wanted me to close my accounts he would have to add me to his sav & checking. By the look he gave me I don't think he liked the idea. I told him it makes me very uncomfortable to ask him to do that because I don't really care to have anything he earned before we got married, that was one of the reasons why I went ahead and opened my own accounts. I told him I want him to trust me the way I trust him. I want to prove to him that I can handle having my own accounts and just because the accounts are under my name doesn't mean that the money is only my, it's much his as it is my. I told him my intensions weren't to go against him or hurt him in anyway. If anything, it hurts me to know he doesn't have the same trust for me to include me in his finances, but thats ok. I told him I love him very much and I want us to grow old together. Yesterday, he made a comment "your direct deposit kicks in tomorrow, doesn't it?" I said "yes" and that was it. Maybe he decided to finally accept it and move forward. (I don't know) All I know is that I am happy with myself on how I handle myself with this situation. Thank you for helping me get through this.

Hi Marcy. It's good that you stood your ground. But do you consider this matter resolved? Sounds like you still don't know the underlying reason for his reluctance to have a joint account with you. The sticking point that I see is the seven months of him saying he'd add you to the account and then didn't. If he's worried about mishandling of funds if you're both on the account, you'll have plenty of opportunities in the coming months to handle your own account responsibly. You'll also have opportunities to state things you plan on doing, and then DO them (like you did in opening your own account after you said you would). It's an important point to drive home. Maybe after a while he'll realize that he can count on you doing what you say you will do. Maybe, just maybe, he'll realize the importance of doing the same for you. Thanks for the update marcy. I wish for all the best for you.

You are right. I think part of the issue has been resolved. What hasn't been resolve is that I still don't know why we can't have joint accounts. For now I won't insist on being part of his finances. Maybe someday he will offer to add me to the accts on his own (without me having to ask). When he got home last night, I had dinner ready for him. He was very happy I cooked for him. He said my behavior the past couple days deserve an A+. I told him this is how it can be all the time, if he would just make an effort to get along with me and stop fight, we can be very happy together.

Sweetie, I've just joined in on your conversation, and I almost feel sickened in sadness by the things you have been saying. Yes, your husband is successful and all, but what does he expect of you? Are you "Graded" by him often, or was the "A+" thing just a joke? What are your "wifely duties" per se? He doesn't seem to trust you with money- does he have any reason not to? I don't know about your situation, but when I was added to my husband's account, I had to be present to do so. Is this an issue with you two? Do you have to be together at the bank to sign into his account?I think your having your own account on the side is the best thing for you. Even though Dr. Harley says that Honesty is key, I would plea the 5th on anything having to do with your own account balance. Let me delve in a little deeper... Has there been any physical abuse in your relationship? I know you don't know me from Adam, but the way you quote your husband ("Blah Blah Blah.. OR ELSE") makes me worry so.. I was raised in a physically abusive household, and I tell ya, it's one of the most painful situations a family can ever behold. Before I get into any more trouble, I'll wait for your reply...In Sisterhood and Understanding,Mandi

There is no physical abuse. I don't think he would try to laying a hand on me. He knows I wouldn't put up with that. I do feel that it has been a mentally abusive relationship, which is just as bad. No, he never graded my behavior before. This was the first time. I can't think of one reason why he can't trust me with his finances. I enjoy shopping (with limits). Like I said before, before I married him I was helping my parents financially. Those could be 2 reasons why he doesn't have trust in me. Let me tell you he doesn't trust anyone who surrounds him. I know I'm not the one with the problem its him, he just has a trust issue. After having a couple nice days together, we got into this big arguement last night, again. We've been married 7 months and to date we hadn't pick out our wedding pictures. Well we have an appointment scheduled for today. Last night we were picking out our pictures. One thing I didn't mentioned is that he is Jewish and I'm Catholic. We'll there are 2 pictures with my parents giving me the blessing (I'm kneeled down)he said we couldn't have the pictures in our wedding album. If I want the pictures he would buy them separate, but they wouldn't be on the album. We then come across to the breaking of the glass picture and I told him he couldn't have it in the album either. I don't mind at all having his picture in the album. But if I can't have mine then why should he have his in it. I couldn't figure out why it bothered him so much to have my pictures in the album, so I kept asking him for a good reason. His response was "I don't feel comfortable with them therefore they won't be in there". He said besides "who paid for the pictures?" I said "you did". His response was "I paid for the pictures, so I have the right to say what goes in the album and what doesn't." He also said "those 2 pictures look like they are poloroid pictures". "That's why I didn't want the photographer going to your house for pictures". "You should be happy I agreed to it". "I went along with it for you". In other words I should be appreciative to him that I had the photographer come to my parents house the a.m. of the wedding and the pictures aren't nice because they were taken at my parents house. At that point I walked away and told him to finish picking them out since my decision doesn't count. He said "I don't understand why we are going through this trouble, I'm sure by Janauray we'll be divorced." He hurt my feelings when he said that. I have been trying hard to make our relationship better for both of us. I cooked for him the past couple nights and had very nice dinners. But, with the comments he makes I loose my cool and get very upset. Since we've cancelled our appointment with the photographer twice already, we can't cancel it again. I told H for him to finish picking them out and I would watch. He said he wasn't in the mood to finish. I then asked him what about our appointment tomorrow. He said we are keeping the appointment. I'm going to meet with the photographer to drop off the proofs thats what he wants,they own them anyway. He took the albums this morning. I don't know if he was serious or just trying to make me feel bad. If he was trying to make me feel bad, it's working. The pictures mean alot to me and I probably won't get to keep any of them.One thing you need to know is that he doesn't practice his religion. That's why I can't figure out why it bothers him so much. I told him this morning, I wasn't upset about the pictures anymore, I am upset on the comments he made. I also told him it's about him having control ("I hate the CONTROL word!!!!")I was thinking of maybe seeing a counselor for help or maybe I should go straight to a divorce lawyer. I don't know how much more of this I'll be able to handle. It's a never ending saga. We are suppose to have dinner with his very nice mother, whom I care for alot, tomorrow. I want to tell him I'm not going to join them for dinner. I am not in the mood to pretend everything is just peachy. What should I do PLEASE HELP!!!!

I spoke with H during lunch. His reason for saying the hurtfull things he said to me last night was cause of what I said to him. Which was "the pictures I want will go in the album, like it or not".During a conversation (while at lunch) I asked him for an apology, he said "you should be apologizing to me". "I said nothing wrong, therefore I am not going to apologize."He also asked me if I would come with him to our photography appointment after work. I asked him why does he want me to come if I can't choose the pictures I like. He said then if you don't want to come. I will go by myself and pick whatever I like. I don't know if I should go with him or not. What should I do?

Marcy, Your H is very controlling. He is exhibiting traits of Narcissism as well. Do a search on this personality disorder...key in the words narcissism revisited. Read! I have been married for 4 years and like you have brought up the subject of joint accts. Needless to say we have no accts together. Mind you both of us are financially stable and dont depend on each other for Money...however, If somthing should happen to him I have no access to his accts nor power of attorney to handle his personal business. Similar to your situation, None of paperwork I've gotten has been signed, nor have we been to his bank together for power of attorney should something happen. Now, Our situation works as far as the separate accts go. He pays mortgage and I pay all incoming bills. I Pay only my credit cards;he pays his. I think in your situation that you SHOULD be on his acct period. His nasty comments are just that and said out of anger the way a two year old would...Kicking and screaming if you defy him or if He doesnt get his way. Your probably dealing wiht a difficult man Marcy....I hope you set your boundaries up clearly. And good job in stating the facts to him in a logical way...funny how they cant seem to answer a question when they know they are wrong. As far as apologizing....get used to this if he is indeed a narcisstic personality. A true narcisstic will deflect deflect deflect, show no empathy or remorse for emotional pain. And rarely acknowledge and admit when they are wrong. Im sorry for rattling and hope this post doesnt come across as harsh. Im curious to know if he would deny you something that you want to buy but need his financial assistance with...like say somthing beautiful for your home? In my situation, I have bought 90% of every furnishing in our home not to mention all landcaping plants ect. I asked him if he'd be willing to give me his credit card to purchase a few things...he did, but couldnt understand why he should have to buy this or that. DUH...He can contribute!!!!I will peek in here later. Check out that search on Narcissism revisited! Might very well be what your dealing with. I am!!!!! ruby

Marcy,I have watched this saga unfold on this thread. I think it is time for you to wake-up and smell the coffee. The issue here is not finances, or trust or wedding pictures. The issue is CONTROL. Your H has a need to control you. I am sure that your H will not agree to counseling even though I am quite sure he needs it. You need to go to counseling so you can learn to deal with his control problem. Believe me it is a problem. You now have money of your own so you can pay for the counseling sessions. I know he will try, using verious methods of control, to stop you from going. Don't let him do this. You need help in defining and setting up boundaries past which you will not let him bully you. Please get some professional help. All any of us here can offer is a bandaid fix for a problem that requires major surgery.I'm sorry. Mud <><

.[This message has been edited by Mudder (edited November 16, 2000).]

Thumbs up Mudder...ditto what he said Marcy, I wish you all the best. ruby

I will seek counseling as soon as possible. You are right he will never admit to any wrong doing. I could be crying my eyes out and he won't say a word. He just watches me suffer. I am always to blame for his actions.I have decided to meet with him and the photographer, not because I'm looking forward to going. I guess I don't have a good reason why I'm going other than I still care and have some hope that maybe things will change.As far as him giving me money for something I want to buy, he always pleases me that way. He question me on what I want to buy, but at the end he will let me buy it. He is not cheap that way. If he has the money avail. he will spend it. I hope I made the right decision by meeting with him tonight.One more thing, do you guys really think things will get in my marriage? Please be honest (I know you guys have been)

Marcy, I have to admit my first impression of your situation wasn't good. I didn't want to jump to conclusions. Important details are often left out of posts, whether by accident or design. I hoped at first the extent of your conflict was simply establishing trust. Now that I feel like I know you a little better, I regretfully must say that I'm leaning toward my first impression. I perceive your H as controlling to the point of being disturbing. It's a red flag of danger for things getting worse. Be strong Marcy. If you manage to lead your H to a land of love and respect, you will achieve a great accomplishment indeed.

Marcy, This is going to sound brutal, but it is hard fact. People dont change unless they want to. It seems that your H doesnt see anything wqrong with his behavior and interactions with you...therfore in his mind the only problem is you. Ultimately your going to have to be the one that changes. You have a choice...either accept this man for who he is and learn how to deal with his personality...or leave the marriage. Perhaps you and he going to marriage counciling will improve the way he interacts with you...I hope so for your sake

Marcy, I would agree accepting your H as is or leaving marriage are two options, but not the only two. I cannot emphasize enough that accepting your H as is would be a disastrous mistake. Perhaps leaving the marriage will be your outcome. Meanwhile, I see a lot of middle ground. Your H hasn't learned how to love, respect, nuture, and cherish. Maybe your H will learn marriage skills. Maybe not. I hope you acquire a firm grasp of the principles described in this site. It will heighten your chances of success the next time around, whether your "new" partner is your current H or someone else. "Earning your divorce" is how some people describe it here. Karenna is one person who's been through a tremendous lot. If she gets on this thread, listen to her.

I hate to accept the fact that he won't change. But it's the truth. I know he won't change, because in his mind everything he does or says its right. I told him last night, on the way to the photographer, that I had decided to seek counseling. I told him I wasn't doing it for him. (Do you think it was wrong for me to say that to him?) I told him I was doing it for myself, I want to be stronger than I already am. His response was "that's good to know, I've been telling you to see someone for help because you really do need it". My response was "right". One thing I hadn't mentioned to you guys is that when I met my H I was living in the west coast with my boyfriend back then. (You can read about it under Resolving Conflicts, living in misery)So, last night he says to me I'm sure you are going to tell your story to make yourself look good. I told him I was going to tell the counselor only the truth. Then he says "make sure you also tell him/her how you were living with someone while you were with me." My response was "I will mention that too, when you go to a counselor you have to be true to yourself and be honest about everything going back to your childhood years." I said "you wouldn't and won't know that because you choose not to seek for help."I will agree Karenna has given me some good advice. I am very interested to hear what she has to say about this issue. Don't get me wrong I really do appreciate all of your feed back and in no way are you guys being harsh with me. Your responses have made me stronger, accepting to the truth and what I need to do now.

Actually, I did address this issue in your post on the Resolving Conflicts forum. I'll stick by the same statement. You have the right in some states to go into court to get your name put on certain accounts that he has. This is tantamount to sueing for divorce. So use the MB and tough love principles first. Read Boundaries in Marriage before throwing in the towel.Teach him the Four Rules of Marriage, slowly and carefully. He is blowing it big-time in the (Dis)Respect Department. His treatment all smacks of total disrespect for you as a person. Setting limits, speaking the Truth in Love, standing with self-assurance, not violating your own integrity by inappropriate submission to abuse, being emotionally honest with him, practicing tough love, using positive reinforcement and validating yourself are all positive ways you can teach him to respect you.Best wishes! Be strong.[This message has been edited by Karenna (edited November 19, 2000).]

Marcy,However you handle this, don't give up until you get a fair solution! My fiance was married to someone that was selfish and controlling with money for 6 years, and it has been a nightmare undoing all the damage he did to her. I am so sorry for what you are going through. Your H is trying to control you in a cruel way that no one should have to put up with. Do not ever think for a second that what he is doing is right, it's not. Good luck and God bless you.

I've had clients in your situation totally sell out because they like his money, the bits and pieces of status, the big house and Mercedes Benz convertible. Putting up with the disrespect and abuse is sometimes a choice made for the "sake" of the child. Not for you. The choice of dignity and integrity is yours alone.

Karenna,can I find the MB and tough love principles. You also mentioned Boundaries in Marriage, is this in the MB website?We had a weekend with no arguing. Saturday night, I decided I was going to talk to him about our issues, the main issue being trust. I brought up the account issue again and why he ask me to close the accts six months ago to add me to his account and then changed his mind about it. He said he didn't change his mind. He just never got around to it. I told him he did change his mind because when I moved back the reason why I open my accts at his back was because he was going to add me to those accounts not the one where my direct deposit was going too. It was so funny because he went mute, he didn't have an answer for me. I asked him to try to put himself in my shoes. I told him I wasn't going to try to prove a point to him because he is the type of guy who always has to be right and no matter what I say or do, it doesn't make a difference. I told him "I am not going to try to justify my actions to make you feel better" "because there are times when I do certain things (that aren't out of the ordinary)which he doesn't understand. I went on and on, on how he is functioning and handling our relationship. I told him I want to continue being his wife but I can't continue if there aren't any changes. What started this conversation was that I picked up the mail. He received a big yellow envelope from the post office and I opened it. In the envelop was his tax return papers. He was bothered that I opened it when it wasn't address to me. He said "I have asked you many times not to open my mail,just because it came from the post office and you didn't know what it was doesn't mean you should open it." I told him I don't want him opening my mail either and maybe he should have his mail sent to a p.o. box. Then I said "you don't have to do that, I will have my mail sent to a p.o. box". "This is your house not my." He said that's just an excuse for you to have your mail sent to a p.o. box. You probably been wanting to have your mail sent elsewhere, you just haven't been able to do it. I told him I have nothing to hide from him. Our conversation went on for about 2 hours. He couldn't figure out where I got all my thoughts from about our relationship. Most of the time he kept quite and listened. He told me he would think about what I said and keep it in mind. He didn't say he would make an effort to change.

I set up an appointment with a Phyciatrist for next week. I was talking with my girlfriend about it. She thinks I should consult with a Psychologist instead. Which one should I be consulting with? I don't know.

A psychiatrist can prescribe medications if you need them. They can both "do" psychotherapy. Consult the Psychiatrist since you do have the appointment. S/he can refer you to a psychologist if necessary. Don't know why you are going, are you depressed? Try to find out if the person you are seeing is pro-marriage. What is the track record? Ask up front for a recommended reading list they give you for working on a marriage. Compare the reading list to the post of Books list on the Just Found Out.. forum.MB principles are available on this website. Go to the Concepts button on the top of this page and start reading.Love Must Be Tough is a book by Dr. James Dobson available at Amazon.com or your local bookstore. Boundaries in Marriage is a book by Drs. Cloud and Townsend available at amazon.com etc. Go to the Women's Bible Study forum and look in the older posts, a month or two old, and read the monster thread entitled <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum25/HTML/000588-13.html" TARGET=_blank>Boundaries..... (SueB)</A> Happy reading!------------------ A true friend is one who not only is willing to love us the way we are, but is able to leave us better than he found us.

Thank you for all the information you've given me. I decided to see a counselor to help me emotionally. I probably don't really need it. I also figured if I start going maybe my husband will eventually decide to come with me. I feel that I have been pretty strong through this situation, but maybe seeking for help will make me feel better.Even though I've been strong about this. I still feel a bit down. I probably don't show it much because I am not the type of girl to put her head down I just want to prepare myself emotionally and spiritually in case anything happened.Thanks again.

Hi, marcy. Your last post was several days ago. I'm curious how things are going now. I was in that same kind of situation a few years ago.My H at the time was just controlling me and trying to make me feel so incompetent and bad about myself that he could be assured I wouldn't leave him. I bet that is what your H is doing as well. If he can make you feel like you can't do anything for yourself (that you are dependant upon him for everything) then he can feel like you will never leave him. I did eventually leave my ex-H after 8 years of marriage. He had become violent, emotionally and physically abusive. I was not one to be intimidated by voilence and the more adamant H became, the more determined I was to show him that he couldn't force me into submission. But, at the time, I was in no position to leave. He had refused to allow me to go to college (I had married very young) or to have a job that payed more than minimum wage. I didn't have a car an nowhere to go. I could have gone back to my parents, but I was too proud for that. And like your H, mine would remind me what a hovel my parents lived in compared to the vast estate (not!) that he provided for me. That was just another way for him to control me.I did eventually leave him. Now I have a new husband, a good job, and I'm in college. He was actually shocked when I left, even though he had told me a number of time that if I didn't like it, I should get out.There is not much in the way of advice in my post. Only a dire future that you must be on guard against. My gut reaction is to tell you to leave him now before you get hurt. But,I don't know. There might still be hope.I would like to hear how you are doing if you get back to the forum.Soaring

I appreciate your concern. Things have been quite for about a week now. He has accepted the fact that I am going to do what is in my interest and not his. He said he is looking forward to me showing him that I will be able to save money and not spend it all in shopping. It's funny because when I told him how I hadn't spent any money and how I had most of my check in the account. He seem to be concerned as to why all of a sudden I am interested in saving money. He asked me what was I planning to do with the money I saved. I told him nothing just save it. He then went into deep thought. I thought it was funny because I know what was going through his mind. What? you might ask. He thinks I am saving money so that it will be easier for me to leave him. I have a decent job. I went to a jr. college but never got a degree. My husband knows that if I want to leave I will leave because I have nothing holding me back from doing that other than the love I have for him. We haven't argued in the past week. We had a good week. Last night we talked about our money situation. I calculated my bills to be around $750 a month. He proposed for me to give him $1,000 every month to pay for my bills and I wouldn't have to worry about paying for anything. So I agreed. I don't know if it was the right thing to do, though. I will be meeting with a counselor this Thursday. We'll see what happens. My H is out of town this whole week. So it will be another quite week at home.Thanks again for your concerns. Marcy

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by marcy:He thinks I am saving money so that it will be easier for me to leave him. . . . I have a decent job. I went to a jr. college but never got a degree. My husband knows that if I want to leave I will leave because I have nothing holding me back from doing that other than the love I have for him. . . . I calculated my bills to be around $750 a month. He proposed for me to give him $1,000 every month to pay for my bills and I wouldn't have to worry about paying for anything. So I agreed. I don't know if it was the right thing to do, though.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>EXCUSE ME!!!!???? But WHY THE SAM HECK ARE YOU GIVING HIM MONEY?!?!?!?!?Doesn't he make more money than you?!?!He should be giving you HIS paycheck so he doesn't have to worry about paying any bills at all? Sound right? He should maybe be paying "your" bills out of HIS earnings!! And sharing the rest equally.Family money is family money. Doesn't sound like you are ever likely to operate that way, does it? You would have to be informed about the conditions, circumstances, accounts, amounts, savings and investments and payments just out of courtesy and respect. Ain't happ'nin' here, kid.Once married, my money, your money, my bills, your bills is NOT how it ought to be done. You are obviously not yet a team. He is not your partner, he is your caretaker. You are married on paper, not in his heart. He thinks he OWNS you. Maybe your counselor will be able to help you sort this out, but I sincerely doubt it.Try again, marcy. Better luck next time.Love,Karenna

Karenna, I was thinking about what you said and you're right. I shouldn't have to give him money. I have a checking accnt in which I'm able to pay my own bills. I don't need to give him money so he will then pay my bills.There are times when I feel as though I should contribute for bills. I don't know if this is right or wrong. I guess if I don't contribute around the house I'll feel guilty for that. He has been telling me that our money is running out, one of the reasons for that is his bad judgement in the stock market. He has made some bad investments. He told me he needs me to help him. I asked him what if I wasn't in his life, then what? I don't think he had an answer.Anyway, I emailed him and told him I was reconsidering the agreement we made the other night. He called me back and asked what was the problem. I told him we need to talk about it when he gets back. I mentioned to him it's not about the money, it's about principle and his trust for me. He then said "you don't trust me, do you?" I said "no, you don't trust me". He then asked me to give him a change that he is coming around. He said he doesn't like it when I act the way I do (meaning me changing my mind about the agrmnt we made). He asked me to trust him and let him do things his way and everything will be fine. I told him that's the problem he wants everything done his way. I am so fustrated with this whole mess, it is really draining me. You guys have been a great help to me. Your feed back has made me stronger and easier in making some of the decisions I've made during this whole saga. I am also looking forward to meeting with the conselor on Thursday.Thanks. Marcy

Listen to Karenna, Marcy. He obviously makes more money than you do. If he "needs your help" with bills, then he can reveal to you what the financial health of your household is. You're just re-entering another round of the same circle that you've been through many times already. He's controlling you. You're adversaries instead of members of the same team.

Well, I went to see the counselor last Thursday. We talked about why I was there and the issues in my marriage. She thinks that my H needs to attend the counseling sessions in order for us to get what we need out of the counseling. I mentioned to my H what the counselor thought and how she wanted him to come in so he can tell his side of the story. His response was I don't need to see anyone to defend myself against what you are saying. He asked me if I wanted him to talk to a lawyer to get divorce. I told him I'm asking him for us to see a counselor and he's telling me his going to see a lawyer. I told him if that's what he wants to do, to do it and let me know what I need to do. He then said he would think about it. Just like he said he would think about listening to Dr. Phil's tapes on Relationship Rescue. Two months later he hasn't listened to them yet. Saturday was another day of arguments over the money situation. I am so fed up with it that I just went ahead and gave him a $500 check to keep him quiet. I told him here is the money, you win you got it your way again. He was probably happy to hear me say that. I am really considering asking him for the divorce after the holidays. I have accepted the fact that he is not willing to get us help. I don't see how I'll be able to save our marriage without him contributing.Sunday, I showed him Dr. Irene's website on verbal abuse. I told him I felt as though he has been verbally abusive and that maybe he should go through the site to see what he thinks. His response was "what are you looking for reason to bring up when you divorce me?" I said no I was doing research on how I need to handle him when he get verbally abusive. He then said "well I can say that you are a habitual liar". I gave him a look of disbelief. He asked me if I have done research on how to divorce him also too. I said no. He told me he doesn't trust me, doesn't believe what I say. He thinks I am very sneaky and if something doesn't go my way I get very upset. My issue is nothing ever goes my way. The latest one, last night it was time to got to bed. So I said "it's time to go beddy bye, it's time to go beddy bye". When I said it I was squeezing his shoulders (it's a way of me showing some effection). He gets up from the chair and grabs me by the arms and starts shaking me, saying the same thing "it's time to go beddy bye". I asked him to stop but kept going. I told him I don't like him playing with me that way because we don't have window treatments in the house and our neighbors could see inside the house. I was very upset he di that and I asked him to stop and wouldn't. He didn't shake me hard but it still bothered me. He said I don't have a sense of humor. He was just playing around with me. I told him I don't like to play around that way. I guess it bothered me so much because in the verbal abuse website there is a questionaire that asks you if your spouse has shaked you in the past. So I said to myself "oh, my god its happening to me". I went to bed crying. He had no reaction. All he could say "well, what about when you pinch me or punch me". I said how do you compare a 90lb girl to a 200lb guy. He said I was to blame for what happened and he was just playing with me. I asked him if he doesn't love me why doesn't he tell me so I'll move out. He asked me why haven't I. Nobody is stopping me and that was that. He never apologized for what he did. He always has a problem apologizing when he does something wrong.

Umm, why are you still there? I don't mean for this to sound harsh or horrible but I honestly think you should get the heck out of there. He's verbally abusive and now physically(no matter how small the abuse is it is still abuse). My husband and I "play" and sometimes he gets a little rough but when I say stop or ouch, you better believe he stops. And your giving him money?!?! Sounds like he thinks your wedding vows were a business arrangement, one where he gets all the perks. Wrong!! I wouldn't give him another cent and get the hell out, if he wants a maid, bill payer and doormat then he needs to go and fing one. I will keep you in my prayers.

Oh, Marcy, I'm so sorry to hear things are getting worse. I know denial is a powerful force -- not that I think you're in denial, but I can tell you want very much to have a good marriage, and sometimes we need to employ denial in order for it to continue. Your first post portrayed a controlling H. This last one portrays a physically abusive H. I feel compelled to get on my soapbox now. I hope it won't offend you or anyone else. Back when the OJ trial was in full swing, I worked in a large office building. One day I entered the lobby, and bright red, life size, silhouettes of women were on display. Each silhouette had a story. Each figure represented a casualty of domestic violence. It was chilling. It spurred quite a response in the workplace.What was even more chilling was the realization that I worked with so many women, some of them for years, who had been victims of domestic violence. One woman had been shot in the head by her ex-H and survived! I knew of women in my neighborhood who were in bad relationships, but I didn't realize how many people I knew personally had seen such turmoil firsthand. Without variation, each woman's story had a common thread. 1) The violence escalates with time. 2) The most dangerous time is AFTER you leave and they try to get you back. Please, Marcy, when you decide to leave, do it with a plan, and do it with certainty. And please notice I said when, not if. I know you want to reach your H and turn him into a loving person. You've tried very hard to do that. But now your H is getting physical. He's not taking care of you, and it's up to you to do that for yourself. Again, I'm so sorry that he's not joining you in therapy. Wouldn't it be so nice to break through the barriers that he's so firmly built. It sounds like your consequences far outweigh the rewards, though, and only you can decide when the price gets too high. Keep us updated. [This message has been edited by lonesome heart (edited December 05, 2000).]

Marcy,I take marriage vows very seriously so I do not give this advice easily. It is time to get out of this marriage. The reason I say this is that you are not in a marriage relationship. It like more of a game to your H. A game where he must win every encounter. The relationship you have with your H is toxic. You may even have grounds for annulment. As I understand it there are no children so my advice would be to get as far away from this man as possible. You may need the help of a battered womens shelter or other women's advocacy group. Get out NOW!!Mud <><p.s. I'm sure I'm not the only one wondering this..why did you marry this man? What did you see in him? How could you have missed these serious problems he has? [This message has been edited by Mudder (edited December 06, 2000).]

You can read more about me under Other Topic, I'm living in misery. Before I met my H, I lived with a guy for 3 1/2 yrs and dated for a total of almost 7 yrs. He was never able to make decisions, let alone make a commit to me. We were more like roommates. I paid a third of everything, rent, utilities, grocery. If I had no money I had to borrow from him and pay it back. I was tired of living that way. I wanted a relationship where we would both be committed to each other. My H was very committed and took care of me while dating. He was always there to help me or protect me if I needed him too. He showed me he was a no nonsense kind of guy. If he said he was going to do something, he would get it done. I didn't have that with my x. My H showed he cared not only for me but for my friends and family. He would always please me in what ever I wanted to do. I don't think he ever gave me a hard time. I remember he always wanted to go to my family parties. Now, he feels as though he knows everyone, therefore, he doesn't care to go anymore. He told me one time he didn't care to hang out with a bunch of criminals. He is a professional and doesn't have anything in common with my family, which makes him feel uncomfortable. Like I told him the other day, I fell in love with him because he would always take control of certain situations, but that didn't mean I wanted him to take control over me too.There were some signs that he was this control freak. For example: He was moving to the new house last December and wanted me to move in with him at the same time. I had agreed to it and then changed my mind. When I told him I wasn't moving in he freak. He said "well, if you are not ready to live with me then you are not ready to marry me". It was 12:30 a.m. He said "I'm on my way to pick up the ring". My response was "can't you pick it up tomorrow morning, its kind of late right now?" He said "no". So he came over and I gave him back the ring. Unfortunately, I took it back 2 days later and never moved in. Or when he asked me to call my x to tell him I had gotten engaged. I didn't have the gutts to tell him. When Marc found out. He yelled at me (over the phone) from the top of his lungs. Well I ended up calling my x and told him. He was devastated. (That's a whole other story). One time I did something to get him mad. When he asked me why I did (what ever it was I did) and I told him just to bother him. He got on my face and started yelling. He used foul language and band on the steering wheel. I guess this are the signs I ignored.It was my mistake for leaving one relationship and going into another right away. Maybe, this is part of my punishment for doing what I did to my x.

Sorry, my other posting is under Resolving Conflict. In case you want to look it up.

How is it going now, Marcy?Have you told him yet that you want his love and affection and trust? Have you told him what gestures are the most meaningful to you? Does he know how you feel about Honesty and Openness? Affection? Conversation? Domestic support? Words of Affirmation? Physical touch? Spending time together? etc. etc. etc.?

Thank you Karenna for your concern. I have talked to him about all the issues you mentioned. He seems to think I'm always exaggerating about our situation.I had a long talk with him about what happened last week and why I didn't talk to him the whole week. I told him all I needed from him was an apology. I wasn't asking for much. He knew he was wrong by shaking me, so why not apologize. He then said I needed to apologize for being mean to him all week. My company's xmas party was on Friday night. He said he wasn't going with me until we straight everything out. I told him "then I guess I'm going by myself". At the end he ended up going with me. We had a nice time. We then apologized to each other. On Sunday we went xmas shopping I took care of the bills for what we bought, which was a total of $300. It included some stuff for myself. When we got home I asked him why was I paying for everything, when he had agreed to take care of all the expenses if I gave him the $1,000 a month. He got all upset because I brought it up to him and went upstairs to the room. I had asked him in a civilized manner. I didn't understand why he reacted the way he did. When I went upstair to get ready to go to bed. I told him that I felt as though I was in the same situation I was in California. The only difference was that we are married. Even though I was very poor I wasn't as unhappy as I am now. I told him that he hasn't been taking care of me. I am basically taking care of myself. He mentioned that he pays for dinners. I told him he has been paying for food and dinners and he should because I'm his wife. That's the least he could do for me. I told him what ever he has spent on me is being offset with the money I have given him since I've been working. I have given him at least 25k. My bills a year ago totaled 6k. The balance right now is 3k. I asked him what about the rest of the money. He brought up the wedding expense. Which was 40k. I asked him when was he going to stop bringing up the wedding. I have given more than my share for the expense right now. I told him it wasn't my choice to get a big house it was his so he should take care of it. At the end he had nothing to say. He knew I was right about what I said. I told him I just want us to be happy, I want us to grow old together and have a family, but we can't have one if our situation continues this way. He held me and told me he didn't want to go to bed being upset with me and that was it. This week has been quiet. We haven't gotten into any arguements because the money situation has been brought up. He will probably get upset when I tell him I can't continue to go to the counselor unless he pays for it. I mentioned this to him on Sunday too. His response was well I already pay for your health insurance policy. I told him in that case I would get it through work. Karenna, I don't really know what's going to happen in our relationship. I pray every day for our happiness. One more thing before I leave. Last night he mentioned to me that he is refinancing the house(which is under his name only). He told me I need to be there to sign a document stating that I acknowledge the fact that he is refinancing. He said that the house will be staying under his name only. I'm not to sure about me signing anything. It may be true that I need to sign acknowledging this transaction but I don't know that. I told him I want a copy of the document faxed so I can review it before I go with him. Can you give me your feed back? Thanks

Marcy,As a married man he cannot refinance it without your signature on something. Either a quitclaim, or acknowledgement of rights, or as signatory to the loan, or whatever the lender requires. Blame the lender. They are covering themselves so they can still collect even if you divorce!Why not take this opportunity to get your name on everything? Why is he refinancing now? Lower interest rate? Getting more cash out and reducing the equity? He still has money problems? I would be very suspicious and hold out for full-disclosure of EVERYTHING. Then get joint accounts. Or legal separation. You might even still live together under a "legal separation," but he would have to pay YOU spousal support in all likelihood. It just galls me that you are even now paying him "spousal support" when he earns more than you do and doesn't trust you and doesn't respect you and doesn't want you to have the ability to be independent of him. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Have you told him yet that you want his love and affection and trust? Have you told him what gestures are the most meaningful to you? Does he know how you feel about Honesty and Openness? Affection? Conversation? Domestic support? Words of Affirmation? Physical touch? Spending time together? etc. etc. etc.?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Marcy, I admire your tenacity! All the things Karenna mentioned in the quote above are the things that are truly important in your marriage. The money problems in my marriage are the exact opposite of yours. My H refuses to participate in the financial aspects of our household. All the bills are paid by me, if and when I the money, and we're in dire straights at the moment. Six months ago, I considered the biggest problem in my marriage to be financial considerations. After months of visiting here, reading lots of books, and starting counselling, I can now see that the prospect of filing bankruptcy is the least of my problems. I've come to realize that my marriage lacks a foundation. I've learned what emotional abuse is and ended my long-standing denial of its presence in my marriage. Marcy, think for a moment about this scenario. Let's say your H wakes up tomorrow and says, hey, let's put your name on the house and all the bank accounts. Is that really going to give you what you want? Although your posts all relate to financial aspects of your marriage, I get the feeling that money is not what motivates you. You seem to be more interested in having a happy marriage built on love, affection, trust, and respect. While finances might be the topic of the day, it's really the least of your troubles. Your H is lucky to have you working so hard to reach his heart. You've worked very hard to earn his trust. I daresay he needs to show some interest in earning YOUR trust. He seems to bully you into submission every time a conflict over money occurs. The suggestion I have for you is to NOT sign those house papers until you've resolved the important things that Karenna mentioned. Without mutual love, respect, trust, and admiration, your name on a few papers is pretty meaningless. If your H insists on having the house in his name alone, then let him live in it alone too.

He wants to refinance right now because the interest would go down. I don't think he is having money problems, otherwise he wouldn't have bought the furniture for the house or do the work he is doing to the house right now. (painting the inside of the house and getting oakwood floors, which is costing him some money). He told me it's a law in Illinois for me to sign a document acknowledging that he is refinancing. I don't really think its a law. Maybe its some sort of document stating that I agree to the fact that the house is only under his name. "I don't know". I reminded him today to get a copy faxed to us of the document I will be signing. I told him I don't want him to tell me the night before that he forgot to get it faxed, because if that happens I WILL NOT accompany him to do this transaction. He asked me if I didn't trust him. I said it wasn't that, I am just trying to protect myself. He said he would never do anything to hurt me. ("yeah, right"). You are right these issues aren't about money, they are about how he treats me. I must say, he has been very nice to me the past couple days. It scares me. I feel as though he is up to no good, but I'm going with the flow. Two nights ago he came up to me and gave me a couple kisses on my face. It put a smile on my face. His comment was "it doesn't take alot to make you happy". I told him "that's what I've been trying to tell you all this time". If things were the way they have been the past couple days, I would be very happy. I have to go now. Have a great weekend.

Marcy, the law is so that if he loses the house, they have to notify you that they will be repossessing it. Your name may nt be on the loan as mine isn't on ours, but the title deed has both our names on it...i would have an atty look at the papers and explain them to you first though before you sign them.

It has been really quit at home for the past weeks. The holidays were very nice. My H & I exchanged some nice gifts.Remember when I mentioned about me signing a document when he refinance the house. Well, the document is called waiver of homestead. By me signing this document I am waiving all my rights to the house. I told him I needed to think about it. He said he can't refinance the house without my signature on the document. I told him it is very uncomfortable for me to be in this situation. Instead of me signing a document so he can add me to the house, he wants me to sign a document so I will have no rights to the house. I told him I never had any rights or to this date I have never felt as though it is my house too. I told him maybe I should sign the document because right now he wants $1,000 from me. If I don't sign the mortage will go up and I will have to give him $1,500 instead. His way of comforting me is by saying " oh, I'm really starting to feel as though our relationship is going the right direction". My response was "WHAT"? "How could it be going the right direction when you are putting me through this"? We both kept our calm through this conversation without arguing. I just don't know what to do. PLEASE HELP!!!

Gee, you know, you can get a pretty nice apt for $1500/mo. I just don't see this as a marriage and not even a good business arrangement. I can only tell about me and the realization that I haven't done a very good job at taking care of myself to the point of allowing abuse similar to what you are experiencing. I have spent more time, denying, minimizing the effects on me, making excuses for my H rather than asserting that I am a person of value and that this behavior is inappropriate and dangerous for me and that if I don't treat myself as valuable why would anyone else. I do wish you would get yourself an apt. and continue therapy so that you become stronger and realize what a unique and special person you are, worthy of loving and being loved. I am getting an apt. on Friday. It is a hard thing and I don't know if my marriage will be rebuilt, but I am sure that life was not supposed to be this way.Take care.

He is not asking me for $1,500 a month. I was being sarcastic when I told him that. I haven't given him $1,000 a month for my bills and household expenses either. I gave him a $500 check last month and that was it. I planning on not giving him anything. I was told by the mortage company that this waiver of homestead is to protect myself in case the house goes into forclosure. It does bother me that he is asking me to do this. But deep inside I really don't care to someday owning his house. Right now I just want to be treated as though I'm married to him & not just living together. If we get divorced I wouldn't want to take his house away from him. I don't want any part of it. My concern is what if I sign this document and it effects me with something else in the future. I don't know. That is my only concern right now. What will be the consequences if I sign this? Will there be any consequences? I'm not thinking of starting a family with him in the near future, but if we did and got divorced I would move else where. I mentioned this situation to my friend. She told me I should tell him I'm not signing anything, but I am signing the divorce papers. I don't think this is the proper way of handling it either. I am really confused, when I shouldn't be.

The only way you should sign that waiver is in the context of a marital settlement agreement which fairly separates all property interests and provides for division of debts, retirement accounts, the pets and anything else. Tell him that if that means you have to pay him spousal support for a year or two then that's what will have to happen. But don't sign such a partial divorce settlement as he is asking for just so he can get the loan. Why can't he get the loan with you? Do you have a lot of debt or bad credit history?Get thee to an attorney. You cannot and should not trust your H. Even if you want to save the marriage, the best way to do that is from a position of superior knowledge and intelligence. Ignorance just kills you.

I feel awkward asking him to divided everything he owns. I don't want him to think that all I care about is his money. So if I sign a document stating what is being divided, then its ok for me to give him money for living expenses? This is confusing to me. Is this waiver of homestead considered a partial divorce settlement? If so how is that?When I went in this relationship I had nothing but bills, which I was paying on time (even if it was the minimum payment). My debt right now is about $2,500. I probably don't have the cleanest credit out there and one of the reason is because of him. I come to find out by one of my creditors that they hadn't been paid in 3 months so they closed the account. That will be on my credit report. I am bothered by it but didn't say anything to him.I told mom about this situation. She seems to think that what if we get divorced and he decided to put all his savings (everything he owns) into the house so I won't be able to get anything from him. Can this really happen by me signing this waiver? I feel so naïve about this whole thing.I'm going to try to find an attorney on the internet to see if he can give me some advise over the phone during lunch.One more thing. Yesterday he called his attorney so he could explain to this waiver of homestead to us. I asked him why is he acting as though he's not to sure what it's about either. I told him he knew what it is all about, that's why he is asking me to sign it. As if I'm going to listen to his attorney anyway. This is really bother him. He said he never thought I would give him such a hard time over this. I told him I am just protecting myself. He then asked me how am I protecting myself over something that is not mine. I told him he doesn't have to play dumb with me.

All this over money. Money the root of all evil. Trust is definitely one of the upmost importance in any marriage. I was glad to read that you are not planning to start a family any time soon. I would hate to read that you had to pay the H back pay for maternity leave. Gosh, what would happen to you if you got hurt? What if you were laid up for a year, and could not work? The insurance coverage ran out. Would u be thrown out in the streets by him? This man seems to have not taken any of his vows seriously. God forbid if anything happened to him, and he had to rely on you to take care of him. Huh? [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

I am sorry to hear you are having a hard time with this issue. I hope the attorney can help you resolve the best way to handle this financial crisis.

I am so sorry to hear your plight. I agree with most of the wise advice of the other posters that it is not a money problem but a multifaceted group of problems and issues. Here is a refreshing example for you of a functional, possibly normal, newly married couple's idea of sharing money. Being older and wiser now, we figured out what works for us with no conflicts. We are in our 40's and have been dating for 3 years, married for 3 months. My H makes 1/3 of what I do. He works full time at a job. I run my real-estate rental home business. I got a pre-nup before we were married because I was the one with all the assets. But this did not cover everyday life. I asked him to pay a fair portion of his income for our house payment, (the $300K house is in my name). Then, I pay most of the utiliteies but he pays for his phone line and our sattelite dish cause he loves to watch TV. He also pays for food but we dont count every penny there, he pays what he can. Basically, he does not blow money except on me and the house when he can. But we have had no conflicts about this and are able to discuss money easily. We have conflicts about sex, not money ( I need more sex than he does). I always assumed I would keep my income and accounts and stocks separate from his and this is what we have done and will always do I think. The key is that the one who makes less money should only have to pay a percentage toward the living expenses. If he paid nothing, he would feel funny about it and so would I even though I am able to cover everything. His leftover money is his to do with what he wants. Once I had a very bad financial month and he saw me crying and worriying and he signed his whole check over to me to help me. I love him for that! This is how we are doing it and it seems to work because we love and trust each other so much. But I still got the pre-nup just because I am realistic. He trusted me enough to sign it willingly. And it has not affected the balance of power in our relationship. I will always meet people who make less than me and he is perfect for me in every way so I did not let this fact get in the way of our marriage. This is just one example for you of a smooth working money plan. Just another thought for you... It probably would not be the solution for you here but maybe in your next relationship. Do you feel that you must "pay your own way"? In the marriage? He knows that this could be the case and is using your own guilt against you so he can use your money. I had a boyfriend like this and I ended up paying for alot. WAtch out about the refinancing of the house, He may pull come cash out of there to daytrade it in the stock market and lose it.

On Friday, I went with him to take care of the refinancing. I did sign the waiver of homestead. I don't remember if I told you how nice he had been for the past couple weeks. Well, that changed real quick. Now that he doesn’t need me to sign waivers of homestead, he doesn’t need to be nice anymore. New Years eve, we were getting ready to go to his sisters. So, I said to him "lets go rey" (meaning "let go king"). He asked me what that meant and I told him. His response was somewhere in the effect of "I'm glad you finally realized it". Meaning I'm glad you accept the fact that I'm the king. Well, I then decided to take back what I said. He got all upset with me, because I took it back. Then he wanted an apology from me for taking it back. I apologized for calling him a king and for taking it back. That wasn’t good enough for him. I told him I took back what I said because of the comment he made and his cocky attitude. He said that wasn’t his intension. We didn't wish each other a happy new year went to bed at 11:30 and that was that. The next day he said 2000 was the worst year of his life and I agreed I told him it was the worst for me too. I also told him it was worst then when I was living in California. He didn't like hearing that. Yesterday, he asked me to go to the grocery store for him (to get food for his dinner). I complained because I was home in my pajamas, with this weather I don't care to go out after I am home comfortable. I told him he should have asked me before I left the office. Anyway, I did end up going to the store for him. He then was upset because when he came home from the gym I hadn't started on his dinner. I told him he didn't ask me to do it. He thinks I am not ready to be a wife because I never want to pick up after him, because I then feel as though he is my master. He thinks the cleaning lady pick up after him (which is not true). I told him how am I suppose to be a wife to him when he doesn't treat me as though I'm his wife. He hides his passwords to everything and doesn't include me in anything that has to do with finances. Right before he went to bed last night he came up to the room where I was watching TV and told me he had made a decision. His decision is that we need to separate for a month, for me to go home to my moms. He also said that he is moving forward and he is not going back on his decisions anymore. What do you think of this, is he crazy or what? What pissed him off more was the fact that I haven't pickup the messes he’s made in the house the past couple days. I’ve been to upset with him to do it for him, so I’ve had him do it.I said to him “now that I don't have to sign anymore waivers of homestead you have gone back to your normal self”. “There is no reason why you have to be nice to me.” All he said was that I am crazy. I said, "no you are, you just proved me right".I know I need to get out. What I don’t know is if I should just move all my belonging out or move some things out. There is no room at my mom’s house. Should I ask him to get me a place to stay? What will happen if I just leave? I’m confused. Please help. Thanks for your replies.

Marcy,I gave you this advice nearly a month ago. Look in the phone book for a local battered womens organization. They will be able to answer your questions and help you execute your "escape". Do not under any circumstances tell you H your intentions. I don't trust him and neither should you.Mud<><

I will do that. I didn't give him any kind of response last night. I am going to find out the best way of getting out and when I do I will let him know then. I don't trust him.

Marcy, I'm glad you're getting out of there. I didn't respond to your previous post because I could see you were spinning your tires. I know how it is to keep trying when you're already up to your axles in mud. It's easy for someone else to say get outta there, but not so easy for you to admit you've had enough. I know you've put careful thought into your decision. I am confident you're making the right choice.Start making a list mentally of what your essential belongings are. I spent about two weeks making mine. I moved out on December 18th. It took me 2 hours to pack and get out. My computer is my most important posession. You'll need paperwork and files. You'll need clothes. And it'll be a good idea to take a sleeping bag and blankets. Even if you don't need them to sleep in, you'll need them to drape over your belongings while they're in your vehicle. (do you have a vehicle?). For your paperwork, go to the post office and grab a handful of priority mail envelopes. You need to stay organized after leaving home. I have an envelope for bills, one for correspondence, one for misc, etc. A similar concept works well for clothes too. Get plenty of plastic bags. Put your shirts in one, socks in another, etc. and put in extras for laundry later. It helps the packing process, but more important, it making living on the go a bit more manageable. I call it my backpack mentality. I travelled for a year in my younger days, and that backpack mentality is still with me 16 years later. Still comes in handy I guess. If nothing else, I know I can evacuate for a hurricane! Bottom line, Marcy, is have a plan. Visualize every single step in advance. You won't get a second chance at the day you move out.

You mentioned your husband's passwords, etc. and it made me think of your online activity. I can't recall if anyone else has mentioned this. Have you been deleting your history and cookies? Just a thought... you may not want him to be seeing where you've been and who you are talking to.Best of luck to you.

Are you kidding? I don't use our home computer at all. My H has a computer-consulting firm. He knows everything there is to know about computers. I remember at the beginning I erased the history on the Internet. He got suspicious as to why I had done that. He told me he had another way of tracking the activity so I never used it for personal use after that. I do all my Internet activity during work hours. I get all my email at work and have another private email address, which I never told him about. With the way my H works I always make sure I watch what I do. Not that I do anything behind his back. But if there is something I don’t want him to know about. I have to do a darn good job at hiding my tracks.Thank you for your concerns. I appreciate it.