Hi, marcy. Your last post was several days ago. I'm curious how things are going now. I was in that same kind of situation a few years ago.<P>My H at the time was just controlling me and trying to make me feel so incompetent and bad about myself that he could be assured I wouldn't leave him. I bet that is what your H is doing as well. If he can make you feel like you can't do anything for yourself (that you are dependant upon him for everything) then he can feel like you will never leave him. <P>I did eventually leave my ex-H after 8 years of marriage. He had become violent, emotionally and physically abusive. I was not one to be intimidated by voilence and the more adamant H became, the more determined I was to show him that he couldn't force me into submission. But, at the time, I was in no position to leave. He had refused to allow me to go to college (I had married very young) or to have a job that payed more than minimum wage. I didn't have a car an nowhere to go. I could have gone back to my parents, but I was too proud for that. And like your H, mine would remind me what a hovel my parents lived in compared to the vast estate (not!) that he provided for me. That was just another way for him to control me.<P>I did eventually leave him. Now I have a new husband, a good job, and I'm in college. He was actually shocked when I left, even though he had told me a number of time that if I didn't like it, I should get out.<P>There is not much in the way of advice in my post. Only a dire future that you must be on guard against. My gut reaction is to tell you to leave him now before you get hurt. But,I don't know. There might still be hope.<P>I would like to hear how you are doing if you get back to the forum.<P>Soaring

I appreciate your concern. Things have been quite for about a week now. He has accepted the fact that I am going to do what is in my interest and not his. He said he is looking forward to me showing him that I will be able to save money and not spend it all in shopping. It's funny because when I told him how I hadn't spent any money and how I had most of my check in the account. He seem to be concerned as to why all of a sudden I am interested in saving money. He asked me what was I planning to do with the money I saved. I told him nothing just save it. He then went into deep thought. I thought it was funny because I know what was going through his mind. What? you might ask. He thinks I am saving money so that it will be easier for me to leave him. <P>I have a decent job. I went to a jr. college but never got a degree. My husband knows that if I want to leave I will leave because I have nothing holding me back from doing that other than the love I have for him. <P>We haven't argued in the past week. We had a good week. Last night we talked about our money situation. I calculated my bills to be around $750 a month. He proposed for me to give him $1,000 every month to pay for my bills and I wouldn't have to worry about paying for anything. So I agreed. I don't know if it was the right thing to do, though. I will be meeting with a counselor this Thursday. We'll see what happens. My H is out of town this whole week. So it will be another quite week at home.<P>Thanks again for your concerns.<BR>Marcy

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by marcy:<P>He thinks I am saving money so that it will be easier for me to leave him. <BR>.<BR>.<BR>.<BR>I have a decent job. I went to a jr. college but never got a degree. My husband knows that if I want to leave I will leave because I have nothing holding me back from doing that other than the love I have for him. <BR>.<BR>.<BR>.<BR>I calculated my bills to be around $750 a month. He proposed for me to give him $1,000 every month to pay for my bills and I wouldn't have to worry about paying for anything. So I agreed. I don't know if it was the right thing to do, though.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><B><I>EXCUSE ME!!!!????</I></B> But WHY THE SAM HECK ARE YOU GIVING HIM MONEY?!?!?!?!?Doesn't he make more money than you?!?!<P>He should be giving you HIS paycheck so he doesn't have to worry about paying any bills at all? Sound right? He should maybe be paying "your" bills out of HIS earnings!! And sharing the rest equally.<P>Family money is family money. Doesn't sound like you are ever likely to operate that way, does it? You would have to be informed about the conditions, circumstances, accounts, amounts, savings and investments and payments just out of courtesy and respect. Ain't happ'nin' here, kid.<P>Once married, my money, your money, my bills, your bills is NOT how it ought to be done. You are obviously not yet a team. He is not your partner, he is your caretaker. You are married on paper, not in his heart. He thinks he OWNS you. <P>Maybe your counselor will be able to help you sort this out, but I sincerely doubt it.<P>Try again, marcy. <P>Better luck next time.<P>Love,<P>Karenna<BR>

Karenna, I was thinking about what you said and you're right. I shouldn't have to give him money. I have a checking accnt in which I'm able to pay my own bills. I don't need to give him money so he will then pay my bills.<P>There are times when I feel as though I should contribute for bills. I don't know if this is right or wrong. I guess if I don't contribute around the house I'll feel guilty for that. He has been telling me that our money is running out, one of the reasons for that is his bad judgement in the stock market. He has made some bad investments. He told me he needs me to help him. I asked him what if I wasn't in his life, then what? I don't think he had an answer.<P>Anyway, I emailed him and told him I was reconsidering the agreement we made the other night. He called me back and asked what was the problem. I told him we need to talk about it when he gets back. I mentioned to him it's not about the money, it's about principle and his trust for me. He then said "you don't trust me, do you?" I said "no, you don't trust me". He then asked me to give him a change that he is coming around. He said he doesn't like it when I act the way I do (meaning me changing my mind about the agrmnt we made). He asked me to trust him and let him do things his way and everything will be fine. I told him that's the problem he wants everything done his way. I am so fustrated with this whole mess, it is really draining me. You guys have been a great help to me. Your feed back has made me stronger and easier in making some of the decisions I've made during this whole saga. I am also looking forward to meeting with the conselor on Thursday.<P>Thanks.<BR>Marcy<P>

Listen to Karenna, Marcy. He obviously makes more money than you do. If he "needs your help" with bills, then he can reveal to you what the financial health of your household is. You're just re-entering another round of the same circle that you've been through many times already. He's controlling you. You're adversaries instead of members of the same team.

Well, I went to see the counselor last Thursday. We talked about why I was there and the issues in my marriage. She thinks that my H needs to attend the counseling sessions in order for us to get what we need out of the counseling. I mentioned to my H what the counselor thought and how she wanted him to come in so he can tell his side of the story. His response was I don't need to see anyone to defend myself against what you are saying. He asked me if I wanted him to talk to a lawyer to get divorce. I told him I'm asking him for us to see a counselor and he's telling me his going to see a lawyer. I told him if that's what he wants to do, to do it and let me know what I need to do. He then said he would think about it. Just like he said he would think about listening to Dr. Phil's tapes on Relationship Rescue. Two months later he hasn't listened to them yet. Saturday was another day of arguments over the money situation. I am so fed up with it that I just went ahead and gave him a $500 check to keep him quiet. I told him here is the money, you win you got it your way again. He was probably happy to hear me say that. <P>I am really considering asking him for the divorce after the holidays. I have accepted the fact that he is not willing to get us help. I don't see how I'll be able to save our marriage without him contributing.<P>Sunday, I showed him Dr. Irene's website on verbal abuse. I told him I felt as though he has been verbally abusive and that maybe he should go through the site to see what he thinks. His response was "what are you looking for reason to bring up when you divorce me?" I said no I was doing research on how I need to handle him when he get verbally abusive. He then said "well I can say that you are a habitual liar". I gave him a look of disbelief. He asked me if I have done research on how to divorce him also too. I said no. He told me he doesn't trust me, doesn't believe what I say. He thinks I am very sneaky and if something doesn't go my way I get very upset. My issue is nothing ever goes my way. <P>The latest one, last night it was time to got to bed. So I said "it's time to go beddy bye, it's time to go beddy bye". When I said it I was squeezing his shoulders (it's a way of me showing some effection). He gets up from the chair and grabs me by the arms and starts shaking me, saying the same thing "it's time to go beddy bye". I asked him to stop but kept going. I told him I don't like him playing with me that way because we don't have window treatments in the house and our neighbors could see inside the house. I was very upset he di that and I asked him to stop and wouldn't. He didn't shake me hard but it still bothered me. He said I don't have a sense of humor. He was just playing around with me. I told him I don't like to play around that way. I guess it bothered me so much because in the verbal abuse website there is a questionaire that asks you if your spouse has shaked you in the past. So I said to myself "oh, my god its happening to me". I went to bed crying. He had no reaction. All he could say "well, what about when you pinch me or punch me". I said how do you compare a 90lb girl to a 200lb guy. He said I was to blame for what happened and he was just playing with me. I asked him if he doesn't love me why doesn't he tell me so I'll move out. He asked me why haven't I. Nobody is stopping me and that was that. He never apologized for what he did. He always has a problem apologizing when he does something wrong.

Umm, why are you still there? I don't mean for this to sound harsh or horrible but I honestly think you should get the heck out of there. He's verbally abusive and now physically(no matter how small the abuse is it is still abuse). My husband and I "play" and sometimes he gets a little rough but when I say stop or ouch, you better believe he stops. And your giving him money?!?! Sounds like he thinks your wedding vows were a business arrangement, one where he gets all the perks. Wrong!! I wouldn't give him another cent and get the hell out, if he wants a maid, bill payer and doormat then he needs to go and fing one. I will keep you in my prayers.

Oh, Marcy, I'm so sorry to hear things are getting worse. I know denial is a powerful force -- not that I think you're in denial, but I can tell you want very much to have a good marriage, and sometimes we need to employ denial in order for it to continue. <P>Your first post portrayed a controlling H. This last one portrays a physically abusive H. I feel compelled to get on my soapbox now. I hope it won't offend you or anyone else. <P>Back when the OJ trial was in full swing, I worked in a large office building. One day I entered the lobby, and bright red, life size, silhouettes of women were on display. Each silhouette had a story. Each figure represented a casualty of domestic violence. It was chilling. It spurred quite a response in the workplace.<P>What was even more chilling was the realization that I worked with so many women, some of them for years, who had been victims of domestic violence. One woman had been shot in the head by her ex-H and survived! I knew of women in my neighborhood who were in bad relationships, but I didn't realize how many people I knew personally had seen such turmoil firsthand. <P>Without variation, each woman's story had a common thread. 1) The violence escalates with time. 2) The most dangerous time is AFTER you leave and they try to get you back. <P>Please, Marcy, when you decide to leave, do it with a plan, and do it with certainty. And please notice I said when, not if. I know you want to reach your H and turn him into a loving person. You've tried very hard to do that. But now your H is getting physical. He's not taking care of you, and it's up to you to do that for yourself. Again, I'm so sorry that he's not joining you in therapy. Wouldn't it be so nice to break through the barriers that he's so firmly built. It sounds like your consequences far outweigh the rewards, though, and only you can decide when the price gets too high. Keep us updated. <p>[This message has been edited by lonesome heart (edited December 05, 2000).]

Marcy,<P>I take marriage vows very seriously so I do not give this advice easily. It is time to get out of this marriage. The reason I say this is that you are not in a marriage relationship. It like more of a game to your H. A game where he must win every encounter. The relationship you have with your H is toxic. You may even have grounds for annulment. As I understand it there are no children so my advice would be to get as far away from this man as possible. You may need the help of a battered womens shelter or other women's advocacy group. Get out NOW!!<P>Mud <><<P>p.s. I'm sure I'm not the only one wondering this..why did you marry this man? What did you see in him? How could you have missed these serious problems he has? <p>[This message has been edited by Mudder (edited December 06, 2000).]

You can read more about me under Other Topic, I'm living in misery. Before I met my H, I lived with a guy for 3 1/2 yrs and dated for a total of almost 7 yrs. He was never able to make decisions, let alone make a commit to me. We were more like roommates. I paid a third of everything, rent, utilities, grocery. If I had no money I had to borrow from him and pay it back. I was tired of living that way. I wanted a relationship where we would both be committed to each other. My H was very committed and took care of me while dating. He was always there to help me or protect me if I needed him too. He showed me he was a no nonsense kind of guy. If he said he was going to do something, he would get it done. I didn't have that with my x. My H showed he cared not only for me but for my friends and family. He would always please me in what ever I wanted to do. I don't think he ever gave me a hard time. I remember he always wanted to go to my family parties. Now, he feels as though he knows everyone, therefore, he doesn't care to go anymore. He told me one time he didn't care to hang out with a bunch of criminals. He is a professional and doesn't have anything in common with my family, which makes him feel uncomfortable. Like I told him the other day, I fell in love with him because he would always take control of certain situations, but that didn't mean I wanted him to take control over me too.<P>There were some signs that he was this control freak. For example: He was moving to the new house last December and wanted me to move in with him at the same time. I had agreed to it and then changed my mind. When I told him I wasn't moving in he freak. He said "well, if you are not ready to live with me then you are not ready to marry me". It was 12:30 a.m. He said "I'm on my way to pick up the ring". My response was "can't you pick it up tomorrow morning, its kind of late right now?" He said "no". So he came over and I gave him back the ring. Unfortunately, I took it back 2 days later and never moved in. Or when he asked me to call my x to tell him I had gotten engaged. I didn't have the gutts to tell him. When Marc found out. He yelled at me (over the phone) from the top of his lungs. Well I ended up calling my x and told him. He was devastated. (That's a whole other story). One time I did something to get him mad. When he asked me why I did (what ever it was I did) and I told him just to bother him. He got on my face and started yelling. He used foul language and band on the steering wheel. I guess this are the signs I ignored.<P>It was my mistake for leaving one relationship and going into another right away. Maybe, this is part of my punishment for doing what I did to my x.

Sorry, my other posting is under Resolving Conflict. In case you want to look it up.

How is it going now, Marcy?<P>Have you told him yet that you want his love and affection and trust? Have you told him what gestures are the most meaningful to you? Does he know how you feel about Honesty and Openness? Affection? Conversation? Domestic support? Words of Affirmation? Physical touch? Spending time together? etc. etc. etc.?

Thank you Karenna for your concern. I have talked to him about all the issues you mentioned. He seems to think I'm always exaggerating about our situation.<P>I had a long talk with him about what happened last week and why I didn't talk to him the whole week. I told him all I needed from him was an apology. I wasn't asking for much. He knew he was wrong by shaking me, so why not apologize. He then said I needed to apologize for being mean to him all week. My company's xmas party was on Friday night. He said he wasn't going with me until we straight everything out. I told him "then I guess I'm going by myself". At the end he ended up going with me. We had a nice time. We then apologized to each other. On Sunday we went xmas shopping I took care of the bills for what we bought, which was a total of $300. It included some stuff for myself. When we got home I asked him why was I paying for everything, when he had agreed to take care of all the expenses if I gave him the $1,000 a month. He got all upset because I brought it up to him and went upstairs to the room. I had asked him in a civilized manner. I didn't understand why he reacted the way he did. When I went upstair to get ready to go to bed. I told him that I felt as though I was in the same situation I was in California. The only difference was that we are married. Even though I was very poor I wasn't as unhappy as I am now. I told him that he hasn't been taking care of me. I am basically taking care of myself. He mentioned that he pays for dinners. I told him he has been paying for food and dinners and he should because I'm his wife. That's the least he could do for me. I told him what ever he has spent on me is being offset with the money I have given him since I've been working. I have given him at least 25k. My bills a year ago totaled 6k. The balance right now is 3k. I asked him what about the rest of the money. He brought up the wedding expense. Which was 40k. I asked him when was he going to stop bringing up the wedding. I have given more than my share for the expense right now. I told him it wasn't my choice to get a big house it was his so he should take care of it. At the end he had nothing to say. He knew I was right about what I said. I told him I just want us to be happy, I want us to grow old together and have a family, but we can't have one if our situation continues this way. He held me and told me he didn't want to go to bed being upset with me and that was it. <P>This week has been quiet. We haven't gotten into any arguements because the money situation has been brought up. He will probably get upset when I tell him I can't continue to go to the counselor unless he pays for it. I mentioned this to him on Sunday too. His response was well I already pay for your health insurance policy. I told him in that case I would get it through work. <P>Karenna, I don't really know what's going to happen in our relationship. I pray every day for our happiness. <P>One more thing before I leave. Last night he mentioned to me that he is refinancing the house(which is under his name only). He told me I need to be there to sign a document stating that I acknowledge the fact that he is refinancing. He said that the house will be staying under his name only. I'm not to sure about me signing anything. It may be true that I need to sign acknowledging this transaction but I don't know that. I told him I want a copy of the document faxed so I can review it before I go with him. Can you give me your feed back? Thanks

Marcy,<P>As a married man he cannot refinance it without your signature on something. Either a quitclaim, or acknowledgement of rights, or as signatory to the loan, or whatever the lender requires. Blame the lender. They are covering themselves so they can still collect even if you divorce!<P>Why not take this opportunity to get your name on everything? Why is he refinancing now? Lower interest rate? Getting more cash out and reducing the equity? He still has money problems? I would be very suspicious and hold out for full-disclosure of EVERYTHING. <P>Then get joint accounts. Or legal separation. You might even still live together under a "legal separation," but he would have to pay YOU spousal support in all likelihood. It just galls me that you are even now paying him "spousal support" when he earns more than you do and doesn't trust you and doesn't respect you and doesn't want you to have the ability to be independent of him.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>Have you told him yet that you want his love and affection and trust? Have you told him what gestures are the most meaningful to you? Does he know how you feel about Honesty and Openness? Affection? Conversation? Domestic support? Words of Affirmation? Physical touch? Spending time together? etc. etc. etc.?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Marcy, I admire your tenacity! All the things Karenna mentioned in the quote above are the things that are truly important in your marriage. The money problems in my marriage are the exact opposite of yours. My H refuses to participate in the financial aspects of our household. All the bills are paid by me, if and when I the money, and we're in dire straights at the moment. Six months ago, I considered the biggest problem in my marriage to be financial considerations. After months of visiting here, reading lots of books, and starting counselling, I can now see that the prospect of filing bankruptcy is the least of my problems. I've come to realize that my marriage lacks a foundation. I've learned what emotional abuse is and ended my long-standing denial of its presence in my marriage. <P>Marcy, think for a moment about this scenario. Let's say your H wakes up tomorrow and says, hey, let's put your name on the house and all the bank accounts. Is that really going to give you what you want? Although your posts all relate to financial aspects of your marriage, I get the feeling that money is not what motivates you. You seem to be more interested in having a happy marriage built on love, affection, trust, and respect. While finances might be the topic of the day, it's really the least of your troubles. <P>Your H is lucky to have you working so hard to reach his heart. You've worked very hard to earn his trust. I daresay he needs to show some interest in earning YOUR trust. He seems to bully you into submission every time a conflict over money occurs. The suggestion I have for you is to NOT sign those house papers until you've resolved the important things that Karenna mentioned. Without mutual love, respect, trust, and admiration, your name on a few papers is pretty meaningless. If your H insists on having the house in his name alone, then let him live in it alone too.

He wants to refinance right now because the interest would go down. I don't think he is having money problems, otherwise he wouldn't have bought the furniture for the house or do the work he is doing to the house right now. (painting the inside of the house and getting oakwood floors, which is costing him some money). He told me it's a law in Illinois for me to sign a document acknowledging that he is refinancing. I don't really think its a law. Maybe its some sort of document stating that I agree to the fact that the house is only under his name. "I don't know". I reminded him today to get a copy faxed to us of the document I will be signing. I told him I don't want him to tell me the night before that he forgot to get it faxed, because if that happens I WILL NOT accompany him to do this transaction. He asked me if I didn't trust him. I said it wasn't that, I am just trying to protect myself. He said he would never do anything to hurt me. ("yeah, right"). You are right these issues aren't about money, they are about how he treats me. I must say, he has been very nice to me the past couple days. It scares me. I feel as though he is up to no good, but I'm going with the flow. Two nights ago he came up to me and gave me a couple kisses on my face. It put a smile on my face. His comment was "it doesn't take alot to make you happy". I told him "that's what I've been trying to tell you all this time". If things were the way they have been the past couple days, I would be very happy. <P>I have to go now. Have a great weekend.

Marcy, the law is so that if he loses the house, they have to notify you that they will be repossessing it. Your name may nt be on the loan as mine isn't on ours, but the title deed has both our names on it...i would have an atty look at the papers and explain them to you first though before you sign them.

It has been really quit at home for the past weeks. The holidays were very nice. My H & I exchanged some nice gifts.<P>Remember when I mentioned about me signing a document when he refinance the house. Well, the document is called waiver of homestead. By me signing this document I am waiving all my rights to the house. I told him I needed to think about it. He said he can't refinance the house without my signature on the document. I told him it is very uncomfortable for me to be in this situation. Instead of me signing a document so he can add me to the house, he wants me to sign a document so I will have no rights to the house. I told him I never had any rights or to this date I have never felt as though it is my house too. I told him maybe I should sign the document because right now he wants $1,000 from me. If I don't sign the mortage will go up and I will have to give him $1,500 instead. <P>His way of comforting me is by saying " oh, I'm really starting to feel as though our relationship is going the right direction". My response was "WHAT"? "How could it be going the right direction when you are putting me through this"? We both kept our calm through this conversation without arguing. I just don't know what to do. PLEASE HELP!!!

Gee, you know, you can get a pretty nice apt for $1500/mo. I just don't see this as a marriage and not even a good business arrangement. I can only tell about me and the realization that I haven't done a very good job at taking care of myself to the point of allowing abuse similar to what you are experiencing. I have spent more time, denying, minimizing the effects on me, making excuses for my H rather than asserting that I am a person of value and that this behavior is inappropriate and dangerous for me and that if I don't treat myself as valuable why would anyone else. I do wish you would get yourself an apt. and continue therapy so that you become stronger and realize what a unique and special person you are, worthy of loving and being loved. <P>I am getting an apt. on Friday. It is a hard thing and I don't know if my marriage will be rebuilt, but I am sure that life was not supposed to be this way.<P>Take care.

He is not asking me for $1,500 a month. I was being sarcastic when I told him that. I haven't given him $1,000 a month for my bills and household expenses either. I gave him a $500 check last month and that was it. I planning on not giving him anything. <P>I was told by the mortage company that this waiver of homestead is to protect myself in case the house goes into forclosure. It does bother me that he is asking me to do this. But deep inside I really don't care to someday owning his house. Right now I just want to be treated as though I'm married to him & not just living together. If we get divorced I wouldn't want to take his house away from him. I don't want any part of it. My concern is what if I sign this document and it effects me with something else in the future. I don't know. That is my only concern right now. What will be the consequences if I sign this? Will there be any consequences? I'm not thinking of starting a family with him in the near future, but if we did and got divorced I would move else where. I mentioned this situation to my friend. She told me I should tell him I'm not signing anything, but I am signing the divorce papers. I don't think this is the proper way of handling it either. I am really confused, when I shouldn't be.