it's been 25 years since H had affairs, Sometimes it feels like it is happening all over again... anybody out there who is many years past the occurance? It's been so many years that i don't know if anybody ever HONESTLY gets past the pain. reading peoples posts is even bringing back horrible reminders of the past. my internal alarms are going off as if it is happening all over again!!!

Are there red flags regarding your H's current behavior?

Or is this a re-feeling of old feelings that have never healed?

yes, H sees nothing wrong with having women friends (seperate from me) calls and talks with them on occasion to 'keep up business networking'. I consider this red flags! when ones behavior is independent from the spouse....from what i am learning is a red flag.
secondly, i am not sure if my feelings completely healed...or possibly the recurrance of 'love busters' keeps happening and it is hurting our relationship.
he thinks we are so many years past it 'what is my problem'...'you don't trust me after all the right things i've done'

After an affair, there are Extraordinary Precautions that must be followed to avoid another. Dr. Harley does not advocate blind trust even when no affair has occurred.

Extraordinary Precautions (EPs) should be followed for life by both spouses. If these were instituted from the start of a marriage, an affair would be very difficult to carry out.

1.) No friends of the opposite sex....period.
2.) A transparent and integrated lifestyle.
3.) Elimination of all the conditions that led to the affair
4.) A romantic passionate marriage.

Your husband's affair was probably the worst experience of your life. You will never forget it, but if your husband had provided Just Compensation, your resentment would have long faded. The resentment of yesterday fades when the present is enjoyable.

Will your H follow the above?

1) no friends of the opposite sex - don't know yet, he thinks i am being unrealistic .'the world doesn't operate that way!'
2) transparent....he always 'forgets' to let me know stuff...since those things don't mean much to him anyways. He does like the integrated lifestyle though.
3) elimination to him means that he is not able to live his life without a rope being attached
4) he says he wants a passionate marriage and cannot understand why we do not have one.

i noticed key words 'EP's followed for life'. this went away as the years went by. just me bringing it up and he says i am accusing him of doing something.
i am purchasing some books and hopefully he will read them with me.
reading back over this i am seeing that he wants the benefits of marriage and live by his own rules
i conclude that behaviors keep happening that undermine a passionate marriage.
he told me recently that i should have blind trust. I told him that was stupid/not healthly.
thank you for your reply!

The Harleys, say we should have trust but verify. So you are correct that blind trust is not healthy.

What were the conditions that allowed his affair in the past? Have these been eliminated?

That is because something is WRONG. I haven't thought of my h's affair in YEARS. If you are, then that is an indicator your marriage has not recovered.

What is triggering your alarm bells?

He is probably having another affair because none of the conditions that led to his affair have changed. In order to recover, extraordinary precautions must be taken to prevent another affair.

The best books for your situation are Surviving an Affair and Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders. Most marriage books are crap and don't have a plan to save marriages.

But I think your greatest investment would be to invest in some spy tools, such as spyware for his phone, a GPS and a keylogger for his computer.

Are you familiar with MB principles? Have you read this? How to Survive Infidelity

My H had always been a flirt and had a brief affair while on travel 18 years ago. The following year was brutal to both of us. He suffered a major depression and I was terribly hurt. All this was uncovered during a major move from Europe to the US. It was a horrible horrible year. We "moved past" the affair, kind of swept it under the rug.

I "forgave" him, but he never gave me Just Compensation. We had a decent marriage, but I harbored resentment for a long while. Still had love busters and very little romance or time. (MB was not in our life then.)

He never had EPs. He continued to have women friends. He continued to travel alone for business. I never considered asking for his passwords, etc. Neither did our marriage counselor.

A few years later, I uncovered inappropriate emails to women, along with pornography. Then a couple of years ago, while deployed, he had an affair and nearly destroyed our marriage. Into recovery, I asked him how he decided in his mind that an affair was okay when we suffered so greatly after the first one. His answer?

....Oh....I had fogotten....

Does any of this sound familiar with your life?

EPs are non-negotiable. They must be a part of every marriage that wants to avoid adultery. Certainly, they must be instituted after adultery to avoid another such catastrophe.

It sounds like your marriage never recovered (not in the MB way anyway) from your husband's previous affairs.

There is no blind trust in marriage. There is trust but verify. And it goes both ways.

For now, spend a day or so reading up on MB principles and keep it to yourself. Come back here with any questions.

PS -- no love busters on your part, okay? You can help prime this pump.

Here comes MelodyLane! Here

Marriage Builders is the only marriage material we know of that teaches a couple how to restore romantic love and how to recover from an affair.

I love it!

question: a few years ago at my H's job there was a women whom he knew I had no trust for (later found out she was the 'whore' at the business. he kept saying there is nothing between us....my H had taken some time off for major depression and she calls the house (in the middle of the day) I answered phone and she asks for my H. I said he is not available...she stammered around and mumbled and goes on to give reasons why she is calling 'she is just very worried about him'...'wanted to know if he is okay'.....'again, i am very worried about him...etc'. later at a business party she is there and gives me very strange looks. My H says...absolutley nothing was going on and did not know why she was looking at me strange. But intuition is screaming....what the heck is really happening here? he always tells me i am not over 'it' and accuse him of false behavior. But why would these weird situations occur if nothing was happening?????? am i being irratational? acting out of fear (as he says)? would like others opinions.....thanks!

Wife83,

Did you ever get a polygraph for your WH back when he was with, what you indicate was multiple women? Do you feel like you got all the truth you needed.

Were the spouses or boy fiends of these other women told back then? I ask because it sounds like your WH got off without a scratch which may have given him leave to continue his behavior.

Is WH in a business where men dominate and treat women as objects?

God Bless
Gamma

Trust your intuition. It's probably correct. Your husband has not proved himself to be trustworthy. Why would you be "over it?" He has done little to change the environment that led to the affairs. He does not seem willing to follow Extraordinary Precautions to help you feel safe.

I would tell him that you would like to have a romantic, passionate, and safe marriage--a marriage in which you both meet each others emotional needs and avoid doing things that hurt the other. You want a marriage that is safe, transparent, and integrated with no nights apart. Tell him that he's right, that you have not ever really recovered from his affairs. Would he join you in a program of recovery?

Or does he want to continue to have women friends and gaslight you?

no polygraph was done. I did and do believe that he was forthcoming with all the sick details.

no other people were told accept the counselors/group therapy people that we were with. I can see from reading on MB how the cheater needs to own up to the actions and feel the full sting on what they have done. we were advised that telling the spouse was not necessary for recovery....seems like it was not the best advise. he confronted one of the women and told her he would be telling her husband so she should let him know....then my H changed his mind and didn't go through with it. That has bothered me and still bothers me at times.....not when I see a new light on this subject it seems like that should of definatley taken place. Is this a key ingredient to allow the betrayed spouse recovery?

yes, the business atmosphere he is in has some very respectable people, yet, mixed with peoples who live with no regard for their own marriages or other marriages and sleep with whoever to get to the top.

If he really wants you to trust him, would he be willing to take a polygraph? That is how I would approach him. His reaction to your lack of trust is very, very suspicious. Just think, if your H thought you were cheating would you attack him and say "get over it!!!!" or would you go out of your way to prove to him you were faithful?

See, your husband behaves like a guilty man who has something to hide. I would be making an appointment with a polygraph tester if I were you. Two days before the test, hand your H a list of 20+ questions and tell he has one last chance to come clean before the polygraph test but that you expect him to pass it.

What will likely happen is that your H will confess several other affairs. [after he tests your seriousness by threatening to leave, etc.] Once he sees that you can't be manipulated into "trusting" him and dropping the test, he will sing like a canary.

Do you snoop on his cell phone and email? What about GPS? I would watch EVERYTHING.

Wife83,

no polygraph was done.

An innocent man would jump at the chance to clear his name. But I agree with Melody you need to snoop and find out everything you can first.

no other people were told accept the counselors/group therapy people that we were with.

quite often counselors just tell the betrayed spouse to move on, and keep secret about a crime they did not commit. The betrayed spouse needs surgery and they give them a band aid.

we were advised that telling the spouse was not necessary for recovery....seems like it was not the best advise.

At the very least it's not compassionate for the BHs who have to go through life like you with a damaged marriage, it's like you, the OW and WH are all lying to the BHs.

My W's involvement with OM2 was 20+ years ago and I would be so glad if OM2 or any witness for that matter would step forward and tell me what happened. My marriage has somewhat recovered since MB, except she never regained sexual passion for me which she lost when she was with OM2.

then my H changed his mind and didn't go through with it. That has bothered me and still bothers me at times.....

It's never too late to make restitution for a crime, there's a good chance the OWs never again loved their BHs as they should have and the BHs still don't know why. Don't ask your H to do it he will delay and deny as he has for years, you do it and don't warn or threaten.

God Bless
Gamma

Wife83,

It is perfectly natural to not get over an affair which has never been resolved, for years I would binge eat when my W left me alone in the house, and I always had very real dreams about her and OM2.

If in your "group therapy" sessions they tried to assign blame to you for the affair there's even more reason you never recovered. You and your H were both responsible for the state of the marriage, but H was 100% responsible for having the affair.

How many OW were there?

God Bless
Gamma

thank you all for the support! i've walked this road alone for a long time.....feeling very weary.
the affairs were always one or two 'quickies' and then moved on....but there were about 15 women over the course of 10 years.
it was very difficult to prove because there was never any evidence except for what he knew and the other woman knew. his affairs were not emotionally involved.
my plan at this time (for starters) is to go through dr. harleys books: Fall in Love Stay in Love, HNHerNeeds and LBusters. I am hopeful this will get us on the road to be where we need to be
if anyone has any other helps please advise

Email your questions to Joyce Harley at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com. When your email question is chosen to be answered on the radio show, you will be notified by email directing you to listen to the rebroadcast. If you would like to consider being a caller, include your telephone number. You will be called by us to explain the procedure to you. Every caller will receive a complementary book by Dr. Harley that addresses their question.

Surviving an Affair is an excellent book by Dr.Harley and is the book of choice for overcoming adultery and thriving in recovery. That's how we started.

BH's advice about emailing the radio show is very good. Your husband is a serial cheater and these require different handling than the "run of the mill" adulterer. Your H will have to completely change his lifestyle.

We have a few serial adultery recovered marriages on these boards. The couples had to make drastic changes in their lifestyles, but it can work IF the steps are followed.

You need to read Surviving an Affair. But your basic issue is that your husband is a serial cheater and it will take dramatic, radical changes in his lifestyle to save your marriage. The most important change will be your commitment to hold him accountable. And I don't see that happening here.

Are you willing to hold him accountable? If your H has had 15 affairs it seems to me like you have settled for this lifestyle, which is a big part of the problem.

Can I ask why you would be willing to live like that? Have you been checked for STDs?

Wife83,

thank you all for the support! i've walked this road alone for a long time.....feeling very weary.

That is one of the benefits of exposure, you no longer have to keep that horrible secret, which many around you may already know, and some will come forth with details you never knew. You can unburden yourself of your silence.

One of the uglier aspect of an affair is all the people in your life who witnessed and said nothing. I have an issue with my MIL about that now, as her good friend knew about my FILs many affairs for years and years, MIL assumes they never found out, and my W does not want to tell her. It's a cliche but my MIL really was the last to know.

Your children may have witnessed your H's affairs and said nothing to you out of fear, waywards do get sloppy like that, sometimes getting their children to swear to silence.

the affairs were always one or two 'quickies' and then moved on....but there were about 15 women over the course of 10 years....his affairs were not emotionally involved.


This is another huge lie cheaters tell, the physical aspect of an affair is usually the culmination of many months of flirting and pursuit.

it was very difficult to prove because there was never any evidence except for what he knew and the other woman knew.

If you are saying you should not expose to the BHs now because of a lack of evidence, I think you will help out the BHs end that sick feeling they have felt for years by telling them. It's not often that betrayed spouses catch the waywards in the act, it's more often that they feel something was never the same again and they don't know why. I spent years trying to get my W to love me as she once did, never understanding the nature of the problem.

God Bless
Gamma

Wife83,

I am a newbie here, like you. But, I can answer your original question. It has been nine years since my H ended his first affair. Am I "over it"? Not at all, and my H told me to "get over it", too. That's hardly an incentive, is it?

We did not have EPs in place, either. I am in the process of getting help to lay them out. The "seasoned" members have been a GREAT HELP!

I agree that SAA is probably the best book to read, given your sitch. I have read several of Harley's other books, but this one hits the nail on the head. The radio shows are very helpful, too.

My heart goes out to you. I know first hand what its like. H is on board, but it took him a LONG TIME to get there. Maybe you can appeal to HIS needs and YOUR love busters, first. But, listen to the vets. They have been there, too, and experienced success in their own marriages after applying MB principles.

Wife83 my wife A was over 22 years ago. Am I over it? I don't really know. It is something that I will never forget even through I have gotten all the facts that I wanted. There are days whenever someone will mention his name and my mind goes back 22 years (he has an unusual name). "Getting over it" is confusing like am I over it or are these thoughts just triggered by something I heard. The human mind is a power force to deal with.