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#2710655 03/06/13 08:07 PM
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it's been 25 years since H had affairs, Sometimes it feels like it is happening all over again... anybody out there who is many years past the occurance? It's been so many years that i don't know if anybody ever HONESTLY gets past the pain. reading peoples posts is even bringing back horrible reminders of the past. my internal alarms are going off as if it is happening all over again!!!

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Are there red flags regarding your H's current behavior?

Or is this a re-feeling of old feelings that have never healed?






Recovery began 10/07;

Meeting my wife's EN's is my "thank you" that refuses to be silenced.
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yes, H sees nothing wrong with having women friends (seperate from me) calls and talks with them on occasion to 'keep up business networking'. I consider this red flags! when ones behavior is independent from the spouse....from what i am learning is a red flag.
secondly, i am not sure if my feelings completely healed...or possibly the recurrance of 'love busters' keeps happening and it is hurting our relationship.
he thinks we are so many years past it 'what is my problem'...'you don't trust me after all the right things i've done'

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After an affair, there are Extraordinary Precautions that must be followed to avoid another. Dr. Harley does not advocate blind trust even when no affair has occurred.

Extraordinary Precautions (EPs) should be followed for life by both spouses. If these were instituted from the start of a marriage, an affair would be very difficult to carry out.

1.) No friends of the opposite sex....period.
2.) A transparent and integrated lifestyle.
3.) Elimination of all the conditions that led to the affair
4.) A romantic passionate marriage.

Your husband's affair was probably the worst experience of your life. You will never forget it, but if your husband had provided Just Compensation, your resentment would have long faded. The resentment of yesterday fades when the present is enjoyable.

Will your H follow the above?


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1) no friends of the opposite sex - don't know yet, he thinks i am being unrealistic .'the world doesn't operate that way!'
2) transparent....he always 'forgets' to let me know stuff...since those things don't mean much to him anyways. He does like the integrated lifestyle though.
3) elimination to him means that he is not able to live his life without a rope being attached
4) he says he wants a passionate marriage and cannot understand why we do not have one.

i noticed key words 'EP's followed for life'. this went away as the years went by. just me bringing it up and he says i am accusing him of doing something.
i am purchasing some books and hopefully he will read them with me.
reading back over this i am seeing that he wants the benefits of marriage and live by his own rules
i conclude that behaviors keep happening that undermine a passionate marriage.
he told me recently that i should have blind trust. I told him that was stupid/not healthly.
thank you for your reply!

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Originally Posted by wife83
1) no friends of the opposite sex - don't know yet, he thinks i am being unrealistic .'the world doesn't operate that way!'
2) transparent....he always 'forgets' to let me know stuff...since those things don't mean much to him anyways. He does like the integrated lifestyle though.
3) elimination to him means that he is not able to live his life without a rope being attached
4) he says he wants a passionate marriage and cannot understand why we do not have one.

i noticed key words 'EP's followed for life'. this went away as the years went by. just me bringing it up and he says i am accusing him of doing something.
i am purchasing some books and hopefully he will read them with me.
reading back over this i am seeing that he wants the benefits of marriage and live by his own rules
i conclude that behaviors keep happening that undermine a passionate marriage.
he told me recently that i should have blind trust. I told him that was stupid/not healthly.
thank you for your reply!
The Harleys, say we should have trust but verify. So you are correct that blind trust is not healthy.

What were the conditions that allowed his affair in the past? Have these been eliminated?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Originally Posted by wife83
it's been 25 years since H had affairs, Sometimes it feels like it is happening all over again... anybody out there who is many years past the occurance? It's been so many years that i don't know if anybody ever HONESTLY gets past the pain. reading peoples posts is even bringing back horrible reminders of the past. my internal alarms are going off as if it is happening all over again!!!

That is because something is WRONG. I haven't thought of my h's affair in YEARS. If you are, then that is an indicator your marriage has not recovered.

What is triggering your alarm bells?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by wife83
1) no friends of the opposite sex - don't know yet, he thinks i am being unrealistic .'the world doesn't operate that way!'
2) transparent....he always 'forgets' to let me know stuff...since those things don't mean much to him anyways. He does like the integrated lifestyle though.
3) elimination to him means that he is not able to live his life without a rope being attached
4) he says he wants a passionate marriage and cannot understand why we do not have one.

i noticed key words 'EP's followed for life'. this went away as the years went by. just me bringing it up and he says i am accusing him of doing something.
i am purchasing some books and hopefully he will read them with me.
reading back over this i am seeing that he wants the benefits of marriage and live by his own rules
i conclude that behaviors keep happening that undermine a passionate marriage.
he told me recently that i should have blind trust. I told him that was stupid/not healthly.
thank you for your reply!

He is probably having another affair because none of the conditions that led to his affair have changed. In order to recover, extraordinary precautions must be taken to prevent another affair.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by wife83
i am purchasing some books and hopefully he will read them with me.

The best books for your situation are Surviving an Affair and Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders. Most marriage books are crap and don't have a plan to save marriages.

But I think your greatest investment would be to invest in some spy tools, such as spyware for his phone, a GPS and a keylogger for his computer.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Are you familiar with MB principles? Have you read this? How to Survive Infidelity

My H had always been a flirt and had a brief affair while on travel 18 years ago. The following year was brutal to both of us. He suffered a major depression and I was terribly hurt. All this was uncovered during a major move from Europe to the US. It was a horrible horrible year. We "moved past" the affair, kind of swept it under the rug.

I "forgave" him, but he never gave me Just Compensation. We had a decent marriage, but I harbored resentment for a long while. Still had love busters and very little romance or time. (MB was not in our life then.)

He never had EPs. He continued to have women friends. He continued to travel alone for business. I never considered asking for his passwords, etc. Neither did our marriage counselor.

A few years later, I uncovered inappropriate emails to women, along with pornography. Then a couple of years ago, while deployed, he had an affair and nearly destroyed our marriage. Into recovery, I asked him how he decided in his mind that an affair was okay when we suffered so greatly after the first one. His answer?

....Oh....I had fogotten.... faint

Does any of this sound familiar with your life?

EPs are non-negotiable. They must be a part of every marriage that wants to avoid adultery. Certainly, they must be instituted after adultery to avoid another such catastrophe.

It sounds like your marriage never recovered (not in the MB way anyway) from your husband's previous affairs.

There is no blind trust in marriage. There is trust but verify. And it goes both ways.

For now, spend a day or so reading up on MB principles and keep it to yourself. Come back here with any questions.

PS -- no love busters on your part, okay? You can help prime this pump.


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Here comes MelodyLane! Here

Marriage Builders is the only marriage material we know of that teaches a couple how to restore romantic love and how to recover from an affair.


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Originally Posted by LongWayFromHome
Here comes MelodyLane! Here

rotflmao I love it!


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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question: a few years ago at my H's job there was a women whom he knew I had no trust for (later found out she was the 'whore' at the business. he kept saying there is nothing between us....my H had taken some time off for major depression and she calls the house (in the middle of the day) I answered phone and she asks for my H. I said he is not available...she stammered around and mumbled and goes on to give reasons why she is calling 'she is just very worried about him'...'wanted to know if he is okay'.....'again, i am very worried about him...etc'. later at a business party she is there and gives me very strange looks. My H says...absolutley nothing was going on and did not know why she was looking at me strange. But intuition is screaming....what the heck is really happening here? he always tells me i am not over 'it' and accuse him of false behavior. But why would these weird situations occur if nothing was happening?????? am i being irratational? acting out of fear (as he says)? would like others opinions.....thanks!

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Wife83,

Did you ever get a polygraph for your WH back when he was with, what you indicate was multiple women? Do you feel like you got all the truth you needed.

Were the spouses or boy fiends of these other women told back then? I ask because it sounds like your WH got off without a scratch which may have given him leave to continue his behavior.

Is WH in a business where men dominate and treat women as objects?

God Bless
Gamma

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Originally Posted by wife83
question: a few years ago at my H's job there was a women whom he knew I had no trust for (later found out she was the 'whore' at the business. he kept saying there is nothing between us....my H had taken some time off for major depression and she calls the house (in the middle of the day) I answered phone and she asks for my H. I said he is not available...she stammered around and mumbled and goes on to give reasons why she is calling 'she is just very worried about him'...'wanted to know if he is okay'.....'again, i am very worried about him...etc'. later at a business party she is there and gives me very strange looks. My H says...absolutley nothing was going on and did not know why she was looking at me strange. But intuition is screaming....what the heck is really happening here? he always tells me i am not over 'it' and accuse him of false behavior. But why would these weird situations occur if nothing was happening?????? am i being irratational? acting out of fear (as he says)? would like others opinions.....thanks!

Trust your intuition. It's probably correct. Your husband has not proved himself to be trustworthy. Why would you be "over it?" He has done little to change the environment that led to the affairs. He does not seem willing to follow Extraordinary Precautions to help you feel safe.

I would tell him that you would like to have a romantic, passionate, and safe marriage--a marriage in which you both meet each others emotional needs and avoid doing things that hurt the other. You want a marriage that is safe, transparent, and integrated with no nights apart. Tell him that he's right, that you have not ever really recovered from his affairs. Would he join you in a program of recovery?

Or does he want to continue to have women friends and gaslight you?


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Gamma #2710970 03/07/13 04:26 PM
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no polygraph was done. I did and do believe that he was forthcoming with all the sick details.

no other people were told accept the counselors/group therapy people that we were with. I can see from reading on MB how the cheater needs to own up to the actions and feel the full sting on what they have done. we were advised that telling the spouse was not necessary for recovery....seems like it was not the best advise. he confronted one of the women and told her he would be telling her husband so she should let him know....then my H changed his mind and didn't go through with it. That has bothered me and still bothers me at times.....not when I see a new light on this subject it seems like that should of definatley taken place. Is this a key ingredient to allow the betrayed spouse recovery?

yes, the business atmosphere he is in has some very respectable people, yet, mixed with peoples who live with no regard for their own marriages or other marriages and sleep with whoever to get to the top.

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Originally Posted by wife83
My H says...absolutley nothing was going on and did not know why she was looking at me strange. But intuition is screaming....what the heck is really happening here? he always tells me i am not over 'it' and accuse him of false behavior. But why would these weird situations occur if nothing was happening?????? am i being irratational? acting out of fear (as he says)? would like others opinions.....thanks!

If he really wants you to trust him, would he be willing to take a polygraph? That is how I would approach him. His reaction to your lack of trust is very, very suspicious. Just think, if your H thought you were cheating would you attack him and say "get over it!!!!" or would you go out of your way to prove to him you were faithful?

See, your husband behaves like a guilty man who has something to hide. I would be making an appointment with a polygraph tester if I were you. Two days before the test, hand your H a list of 20+ questions and tell he has one last chance to come clean before the polygraph test but that you expect him to pass it.

What will likely happen is that your H will confess several other affairs. [after he tests your seriousness by threatening to leave, etc.] Once he sees that you can't be manipulated into "trusting" him and dropping the test, he will sing like a canary.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Do you snoop on his cell phone and email? What about GPS? I would watch EVERYTHING.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Wife83,

no polygraph was done.

An innocent man would jump at the chance to clear his name. But I agree with Melody you need to snoop and find out everything you can first.

no other people were told accept the counselors/group therapy people that we were with.

quite often counselors just tell the betrayed spouse to move on, and keep secret about a crime they did not commit. The betrayed spouse needs surgery and they give them a band aid.

we were advised that telling the spouse was not necessary for recovery....seems like it was not the best advise.

At the very least it's not compassionate for the BHs who have to go through life like you with a damaged marriage, it's like you, the OW and WH are all lying to the BHs.

My W's involvement with OM2 was 20+ years ago and I would be so glad if OM2 or any witness for that matter would step forward and tell me what happened. My marriage has somewhat recovered since MB, except she never regained sexual passion for me which she lost when she was with OM2.

then my H changed his mind and didn't go through with it. That has bothered me and still bothers me at times.....

It's never too late to make restitution for a crime, there's a good chance the OWs never again loved their BHs as they should have and the BHs still don't know why. Don't ask your H to do it he will delay and deny as he has for years, you do it and don't warn or threaten.

God Bless
Gamma

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Wife83,

It is perfectly natural to not get over an affair which has never been resolved, for years I would binge eat when my W left me alone in the house, and I always had very real dreams about her and OM2.

If in your "group therapy" sessions they tried to assign blame to you for the affair there's even more reason you never recovered. You and your H were both responsible for the state of the marriage, but H was 100% responsible for having the affair.

How many OW were there?

God Bless
Gamma

Last edited by Gamma; 03/07/13 07:44 PM.
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