Hi everyone, I am new to this forum, although I am not new to marriagebuilders. I have been frequenting this site for over 2 years and it started when my now ex husband was having an affair, I started trying to find people who could help me. and the people on MB did. I posted a lot during that time on the "surviving an affair" forum

I am posting here now because I am wondering how you all deal with your exes when children are involved? You see, my XH lives in CA while the kids and I live in IA. I am remarried and we are making a life for ourselves and the kids, doing our best. My XH thinks that it is unfair that I have primary custody of the children He thinks I "stole" them away from him when I took them to Iowa with me, where my family is, when he wouldn't stop having his affair. I gave him many months to change his ways and he chose to stay in his affair and to stay in CA. So I filed for divorce.

Now he blames me for everything (what's new) and makes rude comments about where I'm raising the kids. He insults Iowans and says that we are all backwards and "slow" with narrow minds. He wants to take our 3 boys out to CA to stay with him for the entire summer, doing God knows what. My ex lives a fancy free lifestyle as a personal trainer/musician/actor in Los Angeles. Although he claims to have no money to pay cs. He only pays $100 out of the $600 he is court ordered to pay. He also refuses to give me his address. He says he lives with different friends and doesn't need to give me his address. (He doesn't want cs to find him) He also has some new gf and he refuses to tell me who she is and he wants to have my sons around her. I am afraid that he will try to take the kids from me if I let them go out there. They are 6,5, and 2 yrs old. Very young. They have only seen their dad 3 times in the last two years. The 2 year old didn't meet him until he was 10 months old. Their father comes back to visit with no $ and uses my car because he doesn't ever show up with a rental. He ends up staying at my parents house because he has no money to take the boys to a hotel. He leaves everything a mess and doesn't even fill up the gas tank after he used it for 5 days. My parents never want him in their house again. I told them not to let him stay, but they said they wanted to do it for the boys. So I don't know what to do. By law I am not allowed to not let my ex see the boys, but I don't think that I am obligated to send them to CA to be with him for months on end.
I am so angry that it seems he is getting away with everything! He doesn't pay hardly any cs at all! And it took him over a year to start paying a measly $100 a month. I am the one struggling through school and work and raising the kids while he is off galavanting with his free life out there in lala land. It's like he's living out his youth that he says I "stole" from him over the 9 years we were together from the age of 19 to 28. I am just so frustrated that waywards seem to just skip along and not have any responsibility whatsoever. The rest of us get stuck doing EVERYTHING. It's the same story for my new husband. I have known him for 10 years and he went through the same thing years ago with his ex wife. Now he has all the responsibility of the kids and she doesn't do anything. So we understand eachother and what we go through.
But what do you guys think I should do about my kids dad visiting them? Should I even let him come see them for visits here in IA? It seems to disrupt everything. It's like we are all on his timeframe and nobody else matters. He just pops up when he wants to and leaves when he wants to. It sickens me.

Somehow you are going to have to separate your feelings about your XH (including your understandable anger about the lack of child support) from the decision about what is best for your children.

No judge will disagree with a decision not to release children into the care of the other parent without a fully verified address and definitely not without a very careful discussion of exactly how the supervision will be handled when they are so young. It goes without saying that he cannot hand them off to a girlfriend.

What about his parents? Can they act as intermediaries?

Tinkerbell! Hi!

I think you should talk to a lawyer about the situation.

The kids should see their dad as much as possible BUT that doesn't mean you need to

-let them visit him in CA if your attorney says you don't have to
-let him borrow your car (big whoop he can't rent one...he will have to find a dumb, backward Iowa friend from the past to lend him something or figure out public transportation with kids).
-or have any contact with X other than factual. Don't listen to his tirades and perhaps go back to a plan B sort of relationship where you are not exposed to the grief.

BTW.....May your new husband be a gem for all time.

I agree that you need to see a lawyer.

A lot depends on the exact wording of your custody agreement. You may need to file for a modification if the CO is vague or hasn't been followed. It's certainly not reasonable for your XH to take the children to CA if he's homeless. Of course, he's probably not homeless, he is just refusing to provide an address because he doesn't want to have to pay child support.

I don't understand how these people get away with not paying child support. Not that I would ever consider it, but I had a buddy who faied to pay. He was convinced it was a little more important than he thought when he spent the night in jail.

Seems like you could use the situation to your advantage:
-say: "call me an hour before you plan to arrive to pick up the children"
-do: call the sherrif five minutes after he calls and tell him to meet your deadbeat husband at your house in 55 minutes.

opt

I need a "like" button!

thank you all for your replis hi reading it has been a long time. well, i am definitely going to speak with my lawyer. i just think it is so funny that my wayward XH thinks he could handle all 3 boys for even a week! and he claims to want them to MOVE to LA to live with him atleast for a few yrs. since when do waywards make the rules? they are so selfish and think they are entitled to everything. makes me want to vomit. also XH said that the reason he wont pay cs is bc he doesnt get to see his sons everyday so he wont pay me to take care of them 1000s of miles away from their "father". bc he is just a grade A, stellar dad! when will judgement day come for these waywards!!

hey thanks kirb!!
Are you in any sort of Plan B, Tinkerbell? I should think if you could limit your interactions with the ex, you would have a much more comfortable life.
In addition to letting your lawyer deal with the legal stuff and separation agreements/custody questions, maybe an intermediary would help filter the unnecessary communication that happens. You really only need to know the facts. Like, when to expect him to show up and pick up the kids (withIN the arrangements made legally during the divorce settlement).
he's only causing you aggravation, it seems. waywards (and generally those with poor boundaries) are like that. it gets them satisfaction to pull people into their dramas.


opt

oh, I just read reading's post. In addition to other good points, she's saying essentially the same thing... Ooops on me.

put it this way. I agree with Reading.

opt

Yes, I am "kind of" in a plan B. I do not talk to him much at all. I do get really mad sometimes when I'm struggling a lot with bills and paying for things that I will text him and tell him how unfair it is that I get stuck with all the financial responsibility and he doesn't help out at all. I just get so angry about it. It's all so unfair. First, the BS gets cheated on and blamed for everything. The BS has to deal with the aftermath of infidelity. Then after the D is finalized the BS still has to deal with all the responsibility and stress of trying to raise kids and make a living. All the while he is buying himself new clothes and has an ipad and a very nice phone. My parents noticed that while he was here visiting the boys.And they said he was on the phone a lot while with the boys. Talking to his new gf. What a world she is getting herself into. LoL. She has NO CLUE!!!

Tinker, how nice to hear from you!! The baby must be 1 or 2 now?? Gosh time flies...


Congratulations on the remarriage

Tinker, I am getting a D myself now (see signature). My STBX is pretty bad but I think yours may be worse

I have a parallel parenting post in the notables section that maybe you want to check out.

I would not talk or text with him anymore, I would set up a separate email account for communications with him...it's also easier to keep track of documentation this way. If the emailing gets nasty, then I would use an IM.

Trust me, this will help you feel better immediately. During this D process I have had to basically come out of my Plan B (mainly email contact, a couple of phone calls, and seeing each other in court, like today, gah!) and every time it gets me riled up. Like, "I would like to punch you in the face" riled up. A TRUE Plan B was much more peaceful...and I look forward to going back once this D is over.

I agree with the others about seeing a lawyer. If you don't have one and are going to look for one, look for a woman who is a seasoned atty that specializes ONLY in family law and is a child advocate.

I think you have a strong case for not letting the kids go out there...and you need to go after him for the CS! But you need to let an atty handle it. No sense in beating your head against the wall trying to argue with a wayward...which will just exhaust and frustrate you.

Hi susieQ! yes time flies. and the baby is going to be 2 on May 3rd! it is crazy. my husband and i are trying to find a place big enough for us and our 5 kids together. he has two girls, i have 3 boys. it is a struggle and this is why i have been so upset with my WXH bc he doesn't have any responsibility. i do not talk to him anymore, since i started posting here again. i just get so tempted to scream and yell at him over the phone or to text him and tell him what a deadbeat he is. i'm just so frustrated and so angry that God seems to let the wayward get away with all this and when i'm doing the right thing , and working my hardest, i get all the financial struggles and hardships while the ex gets to do whateer he wants. blah.

Tinker - how exactly did your new relationship come about? You were just divorced in May '11, how and when did you meet your new husband and when were you married?

hello my husband and i met through work about 9 years ago. i was newly married to my ex husband at that time. now, i haven't worked at this place with him constantly for 9 years. i worked there from 03 to 05 and then lived in california. then i moved back and have worked there since 07, part time. i always thought he was a really nice man and good with kids, but i never thought of him as more than a friend until i filed for divorce. which was in november of 2010. he has been thru the same stuff that i have been thru and we became closer friends after i divorced my husband. because i have known him for 9 years and because of our similar situations, we felt really comfortable with one another and allowed ourselves to open up again. i bring him to this site to read all of the articles and advice for married couples. we both know the destruction infidelity can bring so we are 100% committed to our marriage and our children no matter what. unlike my ex husband who refused to work on anything and still has no concern for his children.

and my new husband did admit to me that he knew that my ex husband was cheating on me even back when we were first married. bc his ex wife used to work with my ex husband. and back then, she had told him about some "guy" she worked with who would always mess around with the girls at work. turned out he realized it was my husband and he wasn't close friends with me and never really talked to me much back then so he didn't tell me. and many other people i knew back then have told me they knew my XH was a playboy but didn't know how to tell me. that's when i really went over the edge and decided to stop trying to save a marriage that was an entire lie. i still can't believe he pulled the wool over my eyes for so long. cheating and lying. makes me sick.

Tinker - you mentioned you started dating this Man in January 2011, at least five full months before your divorce was final. Pepperband actually discussed this with you. You dated this man in the mess of your divorce ... your emotions are all over the map with your posts. Have you fully grasped the work that must be done in your marriage to make this one work?


Go forth knowing there is quite a bit of work to be done on you.

Your Timeline

Filed for Divorce November 20, 2010
Met new husband December 2010 and got serious January 2011
Divorce Final May 2011
Married November 2011 to a man who was also divorced.

Dr. Harley gives a 15% success rate to blended families if and only if POJA IS IMPLEMENTED CORRECTLY.

Please read Dr. Harley's HNHN for parents, especially the chapter on blended families.

I've seen a couple times on this board where the ex problem really creates a lot of stress for the new marriage. I would be concerned for your current relationship if the ex is causing a lot of havoc -- more reason to get plan B ish, as stated above, it's hard enough to do a blended family thing. (I'm looking toward the same situation to some extent).

I also agree with Reading above -- the kids should see their Dad as much as possible. I also strongly feel that that is in no way shape or form YOUR responsibility. Nor is it the kids'. I feel that if I moved away, I would HOPE my ex would move also, but I certainly wouldn't feel that she should be obligated to do so. If she moved, I would do what I could to be as close as possible to my kids.

opt

Yes I was seeing him in Jan of 2011, 3 months before my divorce was final. I had been separated from my husband for nearly a year, and I had already filed for D in Nov of 2010. I was not willing to stay married when my XH wasn't willing to work on the M. He said himself that it was over and that he was not willing to work out anything. I realized a lot about my XH during that time and people here helped me to see clearly. It was my choice to D him. I no longer wanted to put up with his games and his abuse. So instead of waiting around I decided to go ahead and D. This was before I even started talking to the man I am now married to. I also dated this man for a year before we got married. We have also known eachother for 9 years. I am 100% committed to my M with my husband and I will and already do have a much better M than with my XH. My H his 100% committed as well.

We weren't married until Jan 2011. I know the stats for blended families. We will do the work necessary. We don't want D in our lives again.

Did you mean Jan 2012? So you have only been married a few months?

I mean january 2012! sorry!

yes, jan 2012. only married a few months.

So this relationship started prior to D being final, which makes it an affair. Does that make this an affairage?

You need to talk to your attorney. I doubt you can keep him from seeing the kids, however, you have the right to some sort of schedule that he sticks to--at the very least notice ahead of time of when he wants to visit. Say 30 days notice. And I certainly hope your family stops the enabling of loaning a car and providing room and board to him.

I also doubt you will be required legally to send 3 small children that far from you when he refuses to provide his address to you.

All of his blame and anger are just blah blah blah....just stick to the necessary issue which is how to best do your part to facilitate visitation according to your legal responsibility.

ITA with ing woman.

I just can't figure out why it's even a question. In my separation agreement there are things spelled out that I never even thought of. I could never take my kids across state lines without WRITTEN permission/agreement. If I can't be with my kids (let's say I have to work late); I have to call and ask the ex FIRST if she wants to keep them before I ask someone else to stay with them -- a babysitter, my GF, or my own mother. Likewise for her obviously.

Tinkerbell, did you set up an appt with attorney to go over these details?

Out of curiosity, are you discussing all this at length with the new husband? Have you read HNHN for Parents? -- there is a great section there on blended families. My GF and I have talked a lot about that material and trying to implement those concepts. Her ex is pretty much out of the picture, but once in a while he gets a call through and she's usually upset about it for at least a day. He's also a loser. But we talk and it helps. My ex has actually been very cooperative and miraculously just seems to want to try to be a good mom, but we still follow the sep agreement very closely I'd say - I paid money for that and I think it's important to honor it and see that it's enforced.

opt

My guess is she went home to IA and then filed for divorce. Or she just filed in CA and asked for permission (from the court) to go home and he didn't fight it because well he is a loser. He probably couldn't have stopped her anyway, but he would have at least got a judge to sign off on a specific visitation plan. Hard for you to imagine it Opt, but there are men who just shrug visitation off...I suggested to my best friend she have loser/cheater XH sign off on visitation with this wording, 'reasonable visitation at BW's discretion.'

At any rate, I would worry only about my legal responsibility at this point with a man such as she has described. If he wants more of a relationship with his kids he can move back to IA and set up a normal visitation schedule AND begin paying his court ordered cs.

So because my D wasn't finalized you are putting me in the same category as people who have A's? I am sorry, but I don't think that is fair at all. My D would have been finalized in DECEMBER but WXH refused to SIGN them. Then I had to get the papers served to him, which took me a couple months bc I didn't have the MONEY to pay for the guy to go find him and serve him the papers. Plus it took him a few attempts to catch my XH at work. The M was completely over, there was no turning back. I was not changing my mind and I FILED for D, one month before I even started TALKING to my new H. I didn't even run into my new H until DECEMBER. And I wasn't dating him until January of 2011. The D was to be finalized in DECEMBER and I ran into trouble in JANUARY. but make no mistake, I was never going to wait around for years for my WXH to turn around and come home. He made it clear that he was not coming home and he never called his kids and he said he wanted nothing to do with reconciling. So no I did not have an A.

I have a court order for CS and the D agreement was that we have joint custody with me having primary custody because I filed for the boys to be residents of IA when I left CA in March of 2010. So the judge said that I couldn't keep the kids from him, that if he chose to come and visit them that I had to let him. I understand that. Now my question for the judge is, does he have the right to take them to CA? I don't think he does. If I remember correctly, he has to have my permission to take them anywhere outside of the town I live in. Although I know my XH thinks he can do whatever he wants, whenever he wants. I don't know what he has up his sleeve, but at some point I think he will want the boys with him. He thinks he is a "stellar" dad.

Yes, the M was "over". But you were still married.

I know it's not fair. But that's how it is.

Well, you just need to read the divorce decree carefully and if it doesn't say you have to let him take the kids to CA just tell him no.

I also would be very clear with him that if he wants to visit the boys in IA he has to have the means to do so....either his own relative to stay with or a hotel. And a car of his own....rented if need be.

Attorney advice is critical.

As to the remarriage so quickly, I'm gonna vote that it is not an AFFAIRAGE per se but a rebound or relay race style marriage and I wish you and your new hubby well Tink.

I know you gave ex H every single oppurtunity to be a decent guy and he did not take the chance. Plus, you were having a newborn and need a good, supportive man to be your partner.

Thank you reading. I appreciate that. I will def talk with my lawyer about visitation agreements. And I did get into a R quickly and got married a year later, fast I know. I decided when I started feeling love for this man that I wanted to have a good M and I knew and still know that my H is committed to me, to our M and to our children. We know what EN each of us has and we do our absolute best to meet them. Obviously there are ups and downs in every R, but just bc circumstances such as having to work a lot or stress from kids that doesn't mean we can't meet eachother's EN. We will not D bc neither of us will allow it.

Yea true, married according to the state, which seems to think they are God Almighty. Tell me this, why do we go to the STATE to get marriage licenses and divorces? Shouldn't we be going to God and not the atheistic government. Just my opinion. The state can't tell me if I am truly married or not. I think having a ceremony and making vows before God is what makes you married. I am not property of our government, although this is what they want. This is why we are issued certificates when we are born and when we die. This is why we are given social security numbers. We are all slaves and not by choice in most cases. Unless you have a buttload of money. Really I'm going down a rabbit trail now, but my point is, big brother can't tell me if I'm married or divorced or not.

Well, marriage is a business contract.

It is ideally full of love and devotion.

The state is the final word on the contractual ramifications and the bottom line on when it begins and ends.

People in most societies on our planet enter the contractual relationship usually with rose colored glasses on and sometimes the glasses come off and you deal with the crippling and or demise of the relationship. It happens in a formal way in order to keep the sanctity of the concept of the contract.

So, in essence, the state can tell you when you are legally married or not. You can decide that you will not stay in a marriage due to the circumstances and know that you will definitely not stay partners with that person due to their lack of character. Few people want to be in business with someone who chooses to gyp them and chooses to continue abusing the business venture. This is what you did.

YK?

It sounds like you are both committed to being "Buyers" in this marriage.

I believe the State helps define the boundary of marriage -- when it starts, when it ends, and some of the legal ramifications/implications. Within that "contract" as reading states, there is an infinite number of interpretations if you think about the different kinds of marriages you might be familiar with. I like the MB marriage concept -- I think it is most likely to lead to a fulfilling relationship and a healthy satisfying life.

So, by all means, your actual committment to each other is very much defined by your own personal views and joint approach -- most likely rooted in your religious convictions.

Anyway. I was going to say that I'm probably going to find myself married to my GF, Nature Girl (if she'll have me). We started dating 3 months after the D was final. Much like you, Tink, many feel that's too early. Heck, I think it's too early. I never intended to get serious with NG that soon, but I was just out to meet some people and we clicked so much I suddenly had no interest in doing anything else but being with her.

I think the important thing is to recognize what you're dealing with. And then look at it through MB lens. In my case, I should technically be waiting until my kids are grown to ideally get remarried -- that's what Harley recommends. Unfortunately it's too late for that; I've got a committent going with a wonderful classy woman who my kids can respect and learn a lot from. So we make sure we're applying all the principles we can and guard against the pit-falls of all the natural enemies of a good union, as well as the ones inherant in getting together too early (like giving the kids time to adjust to the whole concept and being really patient with them).

Am I making sense, TB? You have to take inventory of your situation and then apply MB as best as you can. That may be more or less difficult for you and your husband due to the circumstances and the choices you made that lead up to you getting married. Dating before the ink on the D papers is dry is not recommended, not condoned, not supported here WHY? because it TYPICALLY leads to failure. If you know that and understand it, you can work through it, anticipate problems, and POJA things even more attentively. It doesn't mean you are bad or unworthy of being here in my view. If we all followed MB principles every time, every day, perfectly, to the T, and without fail, there would be no need for this website or the radio show, or for Dr. Harley to continue to counsel folks -- we'd all read the books and live happily ever after.



opt

Yes I understand what you are saying. I know that it was too early, but I fell in love again and I didn't want to raise my children alone. He supported me through my D as a friend and it obviously became more. I chose to marry him bc I love him and bc our kids, surprisingly, get along really well and they were happy that we got married. My H has two girls and they are 13 and 10. They said they were tired of seeing their dad all alone and sad sometimes bc he hadn't found a woman to spend his life with. They are great kids and very supportive of their father. He always takes their needs seriously as well as mine and my kids. He does a great job of balancing everything right now even under a lot of stress. My kids love my H and yes they are sad about their biological dad, but they rarely see him and that is their dad's choice. I know the recommendation is to wait until your kids are grown, but I also feel that is unrealistic and unfair. As a single mom I would have had to work full time while trying to go to school part time. I would never see my kids. In fact, I rarely saw them when I was going to school and working before I started dating my H. Yes I had family to help me, I lived with them. But I never would have gotten out on my own with my own place unless I worked all the time. Also I wanted my kids to have a father figure since their real dad is MIA. It is my XH who created the whole entire mess and I never would have chosen this road, of D and remarriage if he hadn't been unfaithful and completely checked out of the M, not willing to come back. I gave him every opportunity and every chance in the world to come back to the M. He repeatedly turned me down and left me rejected and alone. So yes, I know I jumped into a R and M with my new H, but I also knew then and know now as well that I really didn't want to see anybody else or talk to anyone else but him. I am human, not perfect. So in a lot of ppl's opinions I should have waited, but I didn't. I am following the MB principles for our M and he is learning everything he can from MB. We are dedicated to it and our faith in God is what holds us together. We wanted a family for our children. The girls' mom is a deadbeat just like my ex. I don't try to be their mom and he doesn't try to be my kids' dad. We treat eachother's kids with respect and love and leave the discipline to the biological parent, unless we have permission from that parent to discipline their children. That is something we agreed upon and has worked well. The girls love to talk to me about girl things bc they have been missing that with their mom. It is obvious to me that they needed a female role model. The 13 yr old was starting down a destructive path before her dad got custody. She is doing so much better after living with her dad and I. She is much happier and getting straight A's in school. I know my H is devoted to me and to our family. I know my XH was never truly devoted to me or to our kids. He put on a good show. But after much counseling during the separation and D, I realized how abusive and manipulative he had been even from the beginning of our R and M. So God forgive me if I started seeing a good man 2 to 3 months before my D was final.

Tinkerbell, so nice to hear from you again! I've wondered what happened with you.

In truth, yes, I'm a little concerned that you have chosen to remarry so quickly. You put the cart before the horse. Be very careful as you navigate this new marriage.

As far as your ex goes: I remember reading your thread and thinking that he was dumping a ton of garbage on you. It sounds like he is continuing to do so. He appears to be irresponsible, self-centered, destructive and reckless.

Read that last sentence again. Would you want anyone who fits that description to spend an afternoon with your kids, let alone an extended length of time? I'm thinking NO. Get your attorney to help you to do whatever it takes to keep your children safe.

MB! I remember how much you helped me when I was going through everything with my XH. I do appreciate all the help you gave me when I was going through that difficult and unstable time.

I understand your concern for my new M. Yes I did put the cart before the horse as you said. I know we will need to do what it takes to make this work and that MB principles are the best to help us navigate our new M.

Yes my XH is still up to his old tricks. Always dumping crap on me. He is still very much a narcissist and yet he says that I am the most selfish, evil woman on earth. He even said I was satan himself, in the flesh. And this was about a month ago. He says this bc I have the kids. It is just ridiculous.

Sweetie, arm yourself with legal help. Please don't let your ex take the kids without a fight.

I'm glad to hear you feel you're in a better place, but it's very important that you and your H strictly follow Marriage Builders concepts. Understand and practice the POJA, O&H, etc - your current marriage started on shaky ground. Build it up.

You have the advantage because you've had the kids for so long, but don't depend on that alone. Start journaling in case he does decide to go for custody. Judges won't like men who don't visit for eons suddenly wanting full/half and half custody.

Do you guys really think that my XH could fight for custody and win? I mean, he hasn't been paying the amount of cs that he is supposed to pay. He never calls the boys. He visits once or twice a year. I'm worried though that he will somehow get into a better place financially and try to use that as leverage. Idk. What do you think the chances are of him actually getting custody someday? He has threatened me saying that I have the kids now but one day it won't be like this anymore. He makes threats like that a lot.

I would not waste mental energy worrying about that remote possibility. Instead focus on your children and don't do anything to violate the custody/visitation agreement.

Yea I need to stop worrying about things he might try to do. He just pisses me off so much bc he is such a deadbeat! I am disgusted with him and I just worry about the kids and how they feel knowing what their dad did and the fact that their dad doesn't come to see them very often. Of course, deadbeat blames me. I told the kids the truth about what their father did. About the A and I told them that it is their dad's choice to stay in CA and that he chooses to stay there bc he wants to. Not bc he has to. They are really hurt by their dad and my H now is trying to fill that void. Will my H now be able to help my kids in that way, even though I know it's not the same as having their biological father be there for them. I just want them to have a father/son R bc they are not getting that from their dad. I am so sad for my kids.

He is trying to make you feel fear. He is trying to feel powerful.

Do not be afraid. Be strong and dignified and seek legal advice when needed.

I think that you need to fill the void left by Daddy. You need to be the rock. Your new H can be your rock. He can be a good, decent guy and model a good man but you will need to be the parent who is doing the job of mom/dad each day. Day in and day out.
If your Ex ever has contact with the kids, he will need to create his own relationship with them good or bad. You are not the referee. You are the anchor for them to tie their spirits to.

You should write down where and when your H does any fatherly duties, or neglects to do so (good and bad). Journaling, accurately, helps your case greatly.

I agree. THat is good advice, thank you! I have always felt like I have been the rock for my kids, even when I was still married to my ex. Even more so now! And I am going to definitely start journaling. XH hasn't contacted the kids for one month. Nothing, no phone calls or emails.

Reading, I understand that you say I have to be mom/dad to my kids now bc their father is not here. I just feel so drained. It is so unfair. It is the same story with my H, he has two daughters and he is left with all the responsibility while the mother of the girls is off with her new H and never takes the girls for a weekend or anything. She rarely sees them and she lives in the same city as them. I know my H and I connected a lot bc of what we have been through. And it is comforting to have one another and we understand the responsibility is on us to raise all of our kids. It just is so frustrating to both of us, that his XW and my XH are such deadbeats. I am so tired everyday bc I do everything for my kids. It pisses me off so much that my XH is freeloading in california and does whatever he wants, whenever he wants. I can't even get a shower when I want to. I have to meet all of my kids needs before I can even clean myself up. I don't get enough sleep. I have to work full time while going to school bc I do not receive cs. I am so mad. I am paying for everything he destroyed. And don't get me wrong, I am glad to be with my new H and our new family. We are working each day to make our M strong and for our kids to feel safe. I am devoted to creating a strong M. I am just PISSED off so much about my XH, bc my kids want to see their dad and they want a R with him. And to be honest, it would be nice to get a break once in awhile! If he could actually be a father and take part in raising them and caring for them then this would be a lot easier. I dont understand why waywards get away with [censored] all the time.

The issue Tink is your life won't get any easier until you recognize and acknowledge you volunteered for all of this.

It seems to me that waywards can destroy an entire family and hurt so many people, especially their children, and then they just go about life like they have been "set free" or "enlightened". I mean, really? wth? I am so tired of waywards living in fantasy world while the rest of us BS are left with REALITY. It is like we are the grown ups and they are the bad children who never listen and turn out to be selfish little monsters.

Hi PI.....what do you mean I volunteered for all of this? Are you talking about my new M? I understand that, I did volunteer for that. I want to be married. I love him and I love our children, all of them! But regarding my 3 boys, I did NOT volunteer for their father to have an A and to leave and to never see them or take care of them. That is what I am mad about. I am left with reality. The reality of children who are having emotional issues bc of their father and I am there for them, but they also want their dad. And I can't force their dad to see them or to take care of them. I do not understand why you say I volunteered for that....

Tink ... there is no time for a pity party. There is only time to be a parent. You volunteered to be a parent. As unfair as your xWH's behavior ... you still volunteered for it. You chose to have 3 kids ... you chose to move back to Iowa ... you chose to leave California ... you chose to raise these children on your own ... you made these decisions.

You are living your choices, and only you have the power to do something about it. Life isn't fair. Life is hard. Their father's actions have nothing to do with you. That is his side of the fence ... those are his choices. Yes they are cruel, they are abusive, and they are painful. The fact is you also made decisions, and now you must be responsible for your choices.

If you want your children to be part of his life, then move to California. You cannot control the freeloader ... he will continue to do what he wants. You can control you. If you want something to happen, then make it happen. Otherwise accept the choices you made and live life to the fullest.

Your kids didn't sign up for this either ... you brought them into this. There will be a time for you when you finish raising them ... until then I guess simplify your life so you can free up your priorities.

I only say this because I live an identical situation. The greatest gift MB has taught me is to stop trying to control a wayward. I can only control myself.

PI, I understand that I made choices to leave CA and to raise my kids without their father. I made that chose because of his A and HIS behavior. I do not see how I "brought my kids into this".......it seems to me that you are justifying the wayward and saying that that's just how life is....and that it is somehow my fault that they do not have a father. Why the hell would I move my kids to CA? Their father is living a hedonistic and freewheeling lifestyle out there. I cannot afford to live out there and I hate California for many reasons. So basically you are saying that the BS needs to suck it up and let the wayward do whatever the [censored] they want to do. really? I know I cannot control him but I thought I could vent to people who should understand. I guess not since you are blaming me and saying I brought my kids into this mess. How the hell did I do that? HE is the one who LEFT. He had the A, he DESTROYED the M. So again, how is that MY fault?????!!!!!

Not your fault.

And you moved back home to be near family and away from the betrayel and strange environment.

and.....certainly none of it is fair. No part of infedelity in marriage is fair. It is independant behaviour and cruel.

You do get to vent here.

thank you, maybe i overreacted, but it seemed that PI was trying to turn everything onto me. i already feel guilty enough that the boys do not have their father. i know i chose to bring them to iowa, and i think it was the right choice. i'm just exhausted and i know life isn't fair, but i hope for some sort of justice. i am not a mom who wants all their time to themselves, but i just want time to take a shower or put on my makeup without being pecked to death by my kids. and they are fighting a lot lately which drives me nuts. they do not listen to me and i try to discipline them. i try and i just want to give up sometimes. but i am NOT like the wayward. i don't run away and leave train wrecks behind me.

Of course you can vent, but venting isn't solving your problems is it?

I am giving you solutions to your issues. The first solution is to accept your reality.

The second solution is to do something about it.

You can sit here and feel sorry for yourself, or you can pick yourself up and change what is happening.

The kids are fighting ... only you can fix that. You are their parent, and it is your responsibility to make sure they do not fight.

It also sounds like you expected your current husband to take on a lot of the fatherly roles your xWH has abandoned. Dr. Harley advises against this because it is disastrous to a marriage.

Your situation needs solutions.

Your children do not deserve to see a mother, who is actively blaming others for a life she chose to create. I understand you xWH is a bad man and bad father. He is no longer part of your problem. You are divorced, and he has checked out of your lives completely. The best you will get from him is his money. You can expect nothing else.

You cannot expect anything from him, so what are you going to do to fix your current situation?

If Iowa is the best place for you, then you signed up to be a very very very single parent. As unfair as that may be ... you made that choice. It sounds like it was a good choice for you. How can you make Iowa a great place to raise a family? What are you going to do to make your family peaceful?

Here is what I suggest.

1) Establish Order and Discipline concerning all children using POJA with your husband.
2) Determine how you can get some time in for yourself, and then POJA it with your husband.
3) Follow through methodically with all POJA decisions.
4) Determine how you will get 15+ hours of UA time in each week.

This suggests to me you are making decisions based solely on emotion. That is dangerous and very dangerous for your current marriage.

Please read Dr. Harley's HNHN for parents, study it and write out your solutions.

Sitting around pining away for some justice or solace from your xWH will do nothing but cause a nervous breakdown.

Plan B him and move on with your life. He is taking up way too much space in your already hectic and busy life.

Tink, moving closer to your family was going WITH what DrH would suggest for you. I remember being one who agreed with that idea. Your xWH wouldn't be involved in your children's lives if you were to move back to CA.

What I am concerned with now(Other than perhaps getting you outta the drama with your XWH by entering PLan B) is this new marriage. You are commenting that you have barely any time to take a shower, how is the UA time coming along then? Is your current DH on board with MB?

Thank you for the replies and the advice. PI- I see your point more clearly now. I do need to plan B the XH and forget about him. I am only making it worse and I see that. I do waste time thinking about stuff regarding him and it makes me feel worse. I realize that I chose to move the kids and I chose to live a single life. I also agree that my H does not need to fill the role as a father to my kids, but I know he will be a role model. I asked that question before because I was confused about what to do regarding that in a blended family. I do not try to play mother to my stepdaughters either. I leave that to their dad.

scotland-It is during the day that I do not have time to do anything without kids surrounding me. I cannot take a shower without someone interrupting me or something like that. This is when my H is at work and I am home by myself with the two little ones. 4 yr old and 2 yr old. The older girls, my stepdaugthers are very good at listening and they listen to their father. They help out around the house and with the kids when it is needed. As far as 15 hrs of UA each week, we are not getting that. My H agrees with it, but bc of his work schedule ( 6 days a week, including 3 nights a week) and the kids it seems that we do not get enough of that time alone. We do make time each evening, around 8pm to be together after the kids are in bed and the big girls are in their rooms. Obviously I know we need more than an hour each night. We do call eachother throughout the day and text as well. This is everyday, we make sure to do that. Also, on his day off, Sunday, we spend the whole day together with the kids. Then in the evening we usually get a couple hours. I would like to have atleast 1 night a week where someone watches the kids and we have more than 1 hour together alone. I would be really happy with that, plus the sundays that are family days. I am talking about it to him tonight. Do you think that is a decent start? with 5 kids it is hard. but we knew that from the beginning and we agreed to get through it, no matter what.

Get a support system (other moms) who can watch the youngones often so you can meet dh for lunch, etc.

Get those hours in!

Make it happen.

ok, I printed off the policy of undivided attention so we can read through it together. We have read others from DrH's concepts list, but we never really had a problem with this one until recently. Mostly bc of the kids. He sometimes feels that he needs to put his daughters needs first and mine after that. It is bc he feels guilty about their mom not being a part of their life anymore and now that he has custody he feels he needs to be there for them. I understand that completely, but he just doesn't seem to get when I say that they don't always need to be around us. I have family who will babysit, I am very lucky. He has family as well who would stay with the girls or take them for a night. It is just a matter of him making this happen. He feels like he is choosing me over them and that they will get upset if we don't include them. He is willing to listen to me, and we are going to discuss it tonight. I think once we read the policy of UA and re-read the POJA, that he will see it differently. I know he feels bad about his girls, they have been through a lot, but even the oldest girl who is 13 has said that she thinks her dad and I need more alone time together. So she wants to help make it happen as well. I know this is vital for our love for eachother to last and to grow.

What about parallel parenting?
Parallel Parenting while in Plan B

Also some fantastic articles by Dr. H.
Blended Families #1
Blended Families #2


Some excellent radio clips.
Blended Families
Blended Families #2

BH, thanks for the links! I hadn't read parallel parenting while in plan B, but I have read the blended families articles. Thanks!

You're welcome.

Did you listen to the radio clips also?

I haven't gotten a chance to listen to the radio clips yet, I plan on doing that tomorrow when the kiddos are taking a nap.

Some more fantastic radio clips on blended families.

Blended Families #1
Blended Families #2
Blended Families #3
Blended Families #4

THank you! I have been working a lot this past week and I finally have some downtime So I am listening to the clips now!

So what did you think?

I tried to get it to play and it wouldn't, it wouldn't even buffer or anything. Idk what happened.....

Can you go to the archives and try? It's the 4-12-12 show all 4.

I disagree with some of the above posters. It doesn't sound to me like your WXH brings anything positive to the lives of your children. Why does he need to see them at all? They'd be better off without him, and so would you. Maybe you have a legal agreement that requires otherwise, and I guess you have to work around it if you do. I wouldn't even listen to the send the kids to CA thing - no address? And bimbos spending the night? No way. It is ridiculous that he pays no child support, and maybe you can go after him on that. Personally, I think I would cut the SOB a deal - keep your hundred bucks and leave me and the kids alone. Have a nice life.

I found that my kids were only pawns to their father - he doesn't really want to see them or take any responsibility, just prove that he can hold that over my head. When I stood up to him and told him I wouldn't force them to go with him, he didn't bother to put forth the effort to make them. They are older so it's a little easier because they can stand up and say they don't want to see him. But in some ways I wish this had happened when they were little. If he had disappeared entirely then, they might not be so scarred.

I love the sheriff meeting him on the doorstep. There goes the room and board and transportation problems all at once:)

Hi RS, thanks for the response. I was thinking some of the exact same things you posted. I really do not think that he needs to see the kids at all after being gone for over 2 years and not doing anything to stay in contact with them or support them. I am getting to the point of telling him what you said, keep your money and leave us alone. I told him that once before and he said that he would never give up his kids. ha. whatever that means. he already did and he did it the second he allowed himself to begin an A. He just texted me the other day and was talking about taking the boys for the month of july. I told him I don't think so bc of all that he did and is still doing. He responded by saying that he will stick by every decision he has made the past two years and that he is just fine with everything he has done. WTH? I just can't get over the wayward mind. He really is OK with having an A and emotionally abusing me, neglecting me and the kids, refusing to put our family back together and getting mad at me for finding happiness and a new life. He is so sick in the head. It just makes me want to hurl.

Why are you still communicating directly with him? (the text to you)

You don't need to respond to his notions....have your lawyer handle any visitation issues that come up.

Any time you communicate with him it is a broken record of old back and forth.

Not positive or educational at all.

Hi reading. I don't know why I keep allowing myself to respond to him. I hate changing my number and part of me wants to respond bc of the ridiculous things he says to me, he pushes my buttons and I just wanna rip him a new one. I know it isn't the right way to handle this, and it isn't healthy at all. I have not communicated with him since that last response, a few days ago. I need to just change my number, but I know once I do all hell will break loose when he tries to contact me. Then he will tell everyone that I am not allowing him to communicate with the kids and that I am "controlling".

My family would possibly mediate for me, to discuss visitations. I do not have enough $ to pay a lawyer to communicate with him.

Does anyone know what men like my WXH end up doing as the kids get older and are finally grown? I want to protect my kids and bc of the fact that he does have visitation rights, I know that he can see the boys whenever he wants to, as long as he is in the state of Iowa. I am concerned about the future, when the boys are preteens or teenagers and wanting to see their dad. You see, if I could have it my way I just want the child support bc of all the financial difficulty he has caused, and for him to stay the h*ll out of our lives. I know that doesn't sound fair, but after all he has done and is still doing, I don't think he deserves them and he definitely needs to be paying child support. Regardless if he sees them or not.

How old are your kids? Can't he talk to them directlly? Why won't you let him talk to him?

I know he was a bad H. Is he a bad dad? Is he abusive to them?

If you had an IM you wouldn't have to deal with his drama.

I think if I were you, I would have an intermediary communicate with him.
I'd set up one who would use email to communicate with him in order to keep a record of his communication and it would show that you were willing to let him see them in the state you are in. It would document that you have not alienated the relationship.
Make sure emails are kept.

Perhaps you could send a certified letter to him saying that he may communicate via IM (whoever you pick) and then you could change your cell number. In the letter, let him know that you will not be available by cell phone but he can call or email IM for communication. That should suffice. Double check with an attorney on that.

Then, make sure any IM keeps emails in a folder for future reference.

I suspect that a teeny bit of you still loves the father of your children, though he has disappointed you majorly and you are remarried. That is okay. Just focus on your new H now. Know that ExWH was someone you had your kids with and it sucks he blew it into smithereens.

Of course, you can choose to communicate with him but it will be upsetting. He will probably disapoint you galore.

I DO let him talk to them. I have told him to call them any time. I have always let him talk to them! The kids are 6,5, and 2. D-day was over 2 years ago. March of 2010. He has called them I will say about 10 times (very well could be less) in 2 and a half years and has visited them 3 times, only for 3 or 4 days each visit. I say he is a bad father now bc he rarely calls them and rarely visits. He refuses to pay cs. Is that a good dad? He was never abusive, although I believe that his overall attitude about life will greatly affect the boys. He is a wayward and is one of the most arrogant and egotistical people in this world, and I am not saying that just bc he cheated on me. Many people in my family and who used to work with him have said the same thing. They think he is very arrogant and always has been. I do not want him teaching my kids that they can leave a woman for someone else and abandon the kids bc they want to continue their affair. Also, he has a live in gf now, or rather....he lives with her and mooches off of her. I do not want my kids staying with him and having her playing mommy to my boys.

R- Thank you, that sounds like a possible plan for me. I just need to find someone willing to be the IM. Most people in my family despise my exWH and they want nothing to do with him. I will have to think about this and come to a decision bc the communication we have now is either non existent or him being a big jerk bc he isn't getting his way.

About the still loving him a little bit, no...I don't think I do. I get enraged with him bc he would text me stuff from the past and give me the big list of how I destroyed the M and that I did it alone, that he was a "great" H and did everything he could to save it. Then in the end he had to leave bc I hadn't "changed" and that the OW had nothing to do with the ultimate downfall of our M. He pisses me off when he still says that stuff to me bc I know it is a bunch of lies! And if you could see the stuff he texted and what he would say to me you would wonder if he was on drugs! He refuses to give an address of where he lives and says he will not pay cs bc he doesn't get to see his kids everyday, and that I deserve whatever hardships come my way. When I would respond to him he would try to psychoanalyze me and say that I am legally nuts and that I hear evil voices in my head telling me lies about him. (meaning his A and abandoning his kids financially and emotionally and physcially) I did respond to this [censored] he said to me bc it pissed me off so much. I hate pride, it is a disgusting trait and he has so much of it. He did it to me throughout our M, made me feel crazy and always demeaned me and made me lesser than him. Then he would call me satan woman and say I was nuts if I got upset about how he treated me. He continually used the Bible as a way to make me "submit" to him and to allow him to text and email as many of his female clients that he wanted to, even if it wasn't about work. He continually emotionally abused me and even hit me a couple times. He is a disgrace and I am so livid bc he is getting away with everything. And he sits on his high horse, on a throne of self righteousness all the while not caring for his own children. I don't care if he hates me or doesn't care about me, but he proves he doesn't care about the kids bc he doesn't call or send $.

And life with my new H is really good, we have our stress from all the kids and work, but the way we handle things are so opposite from how my exWH and I would handle situations.

My new H is not perfect of course, but he is not at all like the man I used to be married to. I have learned so much from my previous M and from people here on MB that I know now not to break out with LB's any time I feel my H is not meeting a need that I have. I just simply talk to him and we hash it out. We are doing well, only major drama we have comes from my exWH and his exWW.

If you Plan B both your ex's and have an IM for both and Parallel parent you won't have the drama. This I know. Especially with your ex out of state.

He is a disgrace but he isn't 'getting away with' anything. You are 1)rid of him, 2) in possession of your most valuable asset--your children. I would say you won in that deal. Sure it would be great if your kids had a good role model in their bio dad, but they don't. And no amount of you raging about or to him will change that. Let it go. In your mind pretend he is dead. (I certainly DO NOT mean that you tell your chidren he is dead). Disconnect yourself from him as if he were dead.

I would send a very clear communication to him (written) that you will not be allowing the children to visit him in CA. State also clearly that you will be happy to facilitate visitation between the children and him in your current city in IA. Also state you will need X amount of notification of said visitation in order to arrange your children's schedules to acccomadate his visit. I also hope your family will step up and stop giving him help when he visits....let HIM get a hotel room and rent a car. Those expenses are not your problem nor your family's problem.


The cs is another issue. If the set amount is only $100, I wouldn't bother pursuing it right now. Better that he racks up a big debt to you. Be very careful to not EVER discuss cs and visitation in the same sentence. Don't goad him with comments about 'leave us alone and you won't have to pay cs'. That will create a 'fight' response in him. Better to let it happen without you saying a single word about it.