XH flying out to Arizona this weekend! - Marriage Builders® Forums

Guess what. XH called today to notify me and the kids that he is flying off to ARizona. Where the other woman lives. To take some tests for his air conditioning license, persay. I asked if he is going to meet with the other woman, and he said he is going to look her up. Now remember who XH is, on these boards. He is going to look her up. Well, he already has looked her up. And I gather that he is going to stay with her in her bed.

There is no other reason for him to look her up. Cause I already knew he was talking to her for a long time. So this is an opportunity for them to start over the sexualness of their relationship. All I know is it won't last, like Peachys husband, and many others here. Her love was not for him, it was for what he gave to her. She did nothing to give to him, and he will get burned again.

Anyways, my kids know that their dad is going out to Arizona, and I gather they all know that he is going to see the other woman too. I expect their comment will be, he is a divorced man and he can do whatever he wants. Which is true. I just don't want anypart of her, and don't want anypart of their relationship. The other woman treated me with disrespect, and so did my XH. Let them live in their sinful life and let their life be what it is. All I know, is that he has not shown my chilren a morally decent life. He has not shown my children, the way to treat a wife.

Anyways, an update, so he won't be posting much while he is gone.

I am okay with it. Just if I ever talk to her again, which I hope I don't. I will tell her how vindictive she was, and mean spirited she was, and how manipulative she was to me. And that I really would rather not know her at all. She will never be a person that I would want to know, with all that she has done in her life, and done to her husband with 2 sexual affairs and the first being a minister. And all that she did to my husband at the time, and how she was a liar and used my husband and myself with all the money that he spent while she sat at home and twiddled her thumbs, and I was working my butt off on the business. She is not marriage material.

Maybe my X will realize that one day. Maybe he will see that she is a vindictive person, and a person that is psyhologically not all there. If not that is his problem.

This weekend, I am taking my kids to see the movie the Passion. This is a movie that is a must, and I asked the kids if they all will go with me. This is going to cost me plenty, but I feel this is a necessary movie.

Have you all heard about the book 'Passion of Jesus'? It is about Jesus' pain for our sins. And it is new, can't remember the title. But the christian program I listen told, said it is brand new, and very powerful. I will wait till the library gets the book and read it.

Just an update, and I am doing fine. Gave XH a deadline of paying off my medical bills, for which is in the divorce decree. And will take him to court if necessary. This man is really screwed in the head, and I at times feel sorry for him, then I don't. Cause he is the one that had the affair, the lies, the deceit. He is a lonely man with no friends.

Are you EVER going to write a post about YOURSELF instead of the goings-on of your EX HUSBAND and/or his OW? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

You wrote: <blockquote>quote:<hr />I expect their comment will be, he is a divorced man and he can do whatever he wants. <hr /></blockquote>You would do VERY WELL to LISTEN to them!!

I haven't written to you for a long time, Faith/Thinker... and there have been so MANY times I've wanted to... but whenever I did in the past you just said you needed time to heal, vent and wallow.

Yes, you need time... yes, you need to deal with snl to pay your medical bills. Yes, you will have *some* dealings with him for (possibly) the rest of your life. I also understand wallowing in your pain... I've done my share of it too.

But c'mon... stop this madness of putting yourself in the middle of HIS life. YOU HAVE A LIFE TO GET BACK! GO GET IT!!

I understand pain -- I have a frozen shoulder (not because of an abusive H, because of an accident). I am having a horrible time finding work. I do understand your frustration with those things! But to waste your time fretting about what snl is doing or not doing is just HURTING YOU.

Please take care of YOURSELF!

New beginning - just stating the facts and nothing else. He is a FREE man, like I am a free woman. And my time is coming that I will date and find someone that is a true christian.

Just thought that you all would like to know about XH and his doings. I don't really read his posts that much anymore, cause they are mostly the same thing over and over.

And I am getting on with my life. I went on a vacation and it was great. I worried about my kids, just a mom thing. I worried about my animals, cause I a an animal lover. I did worry about my Mom and MIL, cause I do love them. And I did think about XH. But given time, it subsided.

I have an exam coming up and 2 papers. And am feeling the pressure. This weekend I am going to take my kids to go see the Passion. I would like to do this for my kids, and to bring them back to christian history. Since the affair, they have not wanted to get back into church. They saw that their father committed adultery, and went ballistic. I believe they don't know what to think about religion. I encourage them to talk to God and to think about God. I had a discussion with my son one day, and he actually believes in God, but doesn't see any sense in going to church. For Easter, I am going to ask them all to go to my church with me for Easter. That would be such a pleasure to show all my children to my church family.

Yes, I am dealing with pain in my shoulder from the abuse that SNL did to me. And whomever he wants to be now here on MB. But of course, his writings state the same, that he is not responsible for his actions. Just like his affair, he justifies everything.

Time heals, and time will bring me joy with someone who admires me for me. If God is willing. I just want a christian man, that loves God #1, then his wife. If not, I will be okay, by myself. I have many interests, and joys in life. I have great family to enjoy being with. I have friends that I enjoy, and have met new friends at my church. That is the difference between XH and I. He doesn't have a friend. Except you guys here. And I had friends always calling me while we were married. He would get mad when they called, and it irritated him that I had friends. Cause he has no one to talk to. Except now, he has his other woman. Which maybe that is what he needs now. Just sorry that he has to fall for a woman with so little value.

You can post to me. I am getting it little by little. Time is working on my feelings, and emotions. And of course, I will be on anti-depressants for another year maybe. I do feel they have helped greatly. XH mentioned the other day that I should get off of anti-depressants. I listened, but I choose to stay on them, until I feel better.

Hopefully, life will be better and calmer this year. Hopefully, I will find a decent job and if necessary take XH to court to pay all the medical bills he is responsible for. He states he doesn't have the money. But that is life, and the decree states he is responsible. No hard feelings, just want my credit cleared, for my new life. He will never have a credit card, cause he doesn't pay medical bills. Which is okay if it is about him.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Just thought that you all would like to know about XH and his doings. <hr /></blockquote>no, we really don't care about your XH. so change that assumption right now.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />And I am getting on with my life. I went on a vacation and it was great. . . . . And I did think about XH. But given time, it subsided.
<hr /></blockquote>no, you are not getting on with your life, you are still stuck in the same place, literally and figuratively, as you were 6 months ago. If you had been successful, we would not hear about your XH, you would not be making the stupid assumptions about us wanting to hear about your stupid XH, and blah, blah, blah. . .

send him off to arizona, and wish him well, pack him an airplane lunch, to never return. . . is my vote, and then maybe you can get better, but so far, you can't seem to do it on your own. . .

wiftty

GOOD!! I hope he has a GREAT TIME!!!

And I'm with WIFTT on this one--Stop assuming we care what he's doing--

You've been divorced how long now??

You know, when my ex and I divorced--I didn't care what he was doing anymore--except where it relates to my kids (who are NOT adults) like your's are--

And I think most of us--once were divorced--don't care what the ex spouse is doing anymore--except where it concerns us directly or our kids--

His going out of town doesn't effect YOU or your kids in the slighest--

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> he is a divorced man and he can do whatever he wants. <hr /></blockquote>Can you repeat this as a mantra to yourself?
You are so stuck and wrapped up in his life and what he's doing. Let it go.
Please talk to a counselor about this obsession you have with him.
I didn't know adultry so I have a different view, but this isn't healthy.
For an example, print out all your posts and show them to the counselor, maybe she can explain to you what we can't.

I hope he has a great time in AZ. Perhaps when he comes back, he'll be happier, treat the children and his mother well, and be a nicer person for getting his emotional needs met.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />he is a divorced man and he can do whatever he wants. <hr /></blockquote>I disagree. Obviously he felt he could do whatever he wanted when he was married, too, but having a relationship with the woman who was his affair partner will ALWAYS be wrong, even if he had been divorced for 20 years.

I think most people here just want to hear the "good news" - they just want to hear those fairy tale stories about BS's who find some wonderful new SO and live happily ever after.

I want to hear from those other 50ish or older women whose husbands deserted the family and left them in poverty, women who did NOT find Prince Charming or even Prince Good-Enough, women who are alone years after the divorce, still struggling with poverty - and I know there are many of them. Most of the "older" women who once posted on this board are gone - they rarely came back with good news - they just left. Is it because they didn't feel welcome here, where people don't want to hear about the way life really is for most divorced older women?

[ March 18, 2004, 06:44 AM: Message edited by: Nellie1 ]

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> I want to hear from those other 50ish or older women whose husbands deserted the family and left them in poverty, women who did NOT find Prince Charming or even Prince Good-Enough, women who are alone years after the divorce, still struggling with poverty - and I know there are many of them. Most of the "older" women who once posted on this board are gone - they rarely came back with good news - they just left. Is it because they didn't feel welcome here, where people don't want to hear about the way life really is for most divorced older women?
<hr /></blockquote>I'm older
I'm struggling with poverty
I didn't find Prince Charming
I rarely post with good news

I post because I want to. I do feel welcome. And THANK THE GOOD LORD THAT MY EX IS MY EX! I am thrilled that he's gotten on with his life, because it means he's not being abusive to me. I am happy that he can afford to go out of the country on exotic vacations 4-6 times a year while I have to struggle from paycheque to paycheque -- because I know that I can do it on my own!

Is it hard? You bet it's hard! Is it worth it? You bet it's worth it!I started to heal after I headed out of the "victim" mentality of "poor me, poor me!" I sat and waited while I wanted everytone to feel sorry for Elan because I was abused, mistreated, left behind in poverty.... Yep, it sucks! But ohhhh am I ever glad that I pulled up my socks and left that rat [censored] ('scuse me) behind! He has NOTHING compared to what I have! He can have the fancy house, the great cars, the vacations -- cause I am the one that has what counts the MOST. I have children who repect and love me, friends who would be here in a heartbeat and no Prince Charming to manipulate his way into my life to the point where I forgot myself. I'll be the one developing relationships with my grandbabies, while Granpa dearest will have nothing because our chiildren actually hate the woman he's with. I'll be the one having those great talks with my friends that last into the wee hours, while the ex will be jet-setting around the world without a friend in the world to spill his troubles to or to share the joy of his child getting on the honor roll once again!

I know what it's like to commiserate with your friends about the "ex" -- but there comes a point where you have to let go and to LIVE. I remember a friend who said the same thing to me -- "Get on with your life and quit living as a victim". I remember being extremely pissed off and "how dare she talk to me like that" -- but you know what? I got on with my life. I told myself that I would go a week without talking about "him" and started focusing on "ME". Thanks Yvonne for giving me the kick in the pants I needed!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> and that week stretched into a month.......

I echo what has been said in this post by many.

I want to add "Hooray that X is out of town." It is not helpful for you to care with whom and where. When my X goes out of town, no matter why, I celebrate, only because his life, lies and the extra chaos he brings into my children's lives through them is not brought into my home. Vacation time for me too!

Use his time away as a holiday for YOU from him trying to push your buttons, which is what he will continue to do as long as you allow this. You cannot change the past or X, but you can change your present focus which is about how your X is choosing to live his life.

I hope your children do not disappoint you with your Easter plans.

Nellie1,

--I disagree. Obviously he felt he could do whatever he wanted when he was married, too, but having a relationship with the woman who was his affair partner will ALWAYS be wrong, even if he had been divorced for 20 years.

TR--And nobody said what he did WASN'T WRONG!!!
We are all in agreement that it was--But yes, HE can choose to do to anything he wants to--

No, she doesn't have to LIKE or even AGREE with his choices--but they are his choices--she can not control him--and never could--and you know what even God say's this man has a choice--and God doesn't even like all of His choices--or even agree with them all--but He still says He has them--just like you do--

--I think most people here just want to hear the "good news" - they just want to hear those fairy tale stories about BS's who find some wonderful new SO and live happily ever after.

TR--I totally disagree with this statement--most of us would prefer to hear that the W-spouses changed, sought forgiveness and went back to work on their marriages--but we accept that isn't always the reality--so yes, we encourage other's to move on--

And you want to know something else--If a person who leave's their spouse IS NOT A CHRISTIAN--They are free to leave--the Bible even says that if a non-believer chooses to leave their spouse--LET THEM GO!!!

--I want to hear from those other 50ish or older women whose husbands deserted the family and left them in poverty, women who did NOT find Prince Charming or even Prince Good-Enough, women who are alone years after the divorce, still struggling with poverty - and I know there are many of them. Most of the "older" women who once posted on this board are gone - they rarely came back with good news - they just left. Is it because they didn't feel welcome here, where people don't want to hear about the way life really is for most divorced older women?

TR--or is that they just moved on with their lives and so they don't feel a need to post here anymore?? Maybe they went back to college got their degree's like my mom did after her and my dad divorced--

When my folks divorced my mother met and associated with other divorced women--they went out as a group and had a blast--none of them remarried--and that was by choice--all of them met other men--all were proposed too more than once--all of them went back to college and got their degrees--all of them over 40--one of them is now Vice President at one of the local bank branches--another retired as VP from another company--another one went on to work for the Government and began traveling all of the world with her job--

and in my talking to these women--the thing ALL of them said made the biggest difference in their lives was not staying stuck in what if's--and what could have been's--having the support of others who were where they were to encourage them to move forward with their lives--and reach for the things they had always dreamed of doing--but never did because they were married--

So yes, I encourage other's who are find themselves in this same situation to stop dwelling in the fact they are divorced and move forward--because I personally have witnessed what it can be like for many of them--once they finally decide to move on--

TR, you always say things so eloquently.

I have the network of which you speak. It's a group of over age 40 professional women who are growing in emotional awareness and try to stay honest with each other. It's the best support network I've ever had. And I met the first one at my Divorce Support Group. I am blessed to have met these friends, and our children will grow up knowing other divorced families - as well as intact familes - and know they are loved.
And we bounce ideas off each other. Edit our letters to our X's. Discuss co-parenting issues, and talk each other down when we get worked up about issues we can't control. And there are people we've included in the mix who haven't felt the way we do, and continue to blame and maintain unhealthy behaviors. They don't fit.

And through this, we've moved on. F4M may be one of those women who is still angry 20 years later, and who wants to be around an angry person.

Faith,

When you divorce, you can see and sleep with whomever you want to...my xh did it for 2 years before it was final and was living with her immediately after first OW dumped him so get over the fact they're sleeping together.

And it's not like with my sitch. My x may be married to this new W forever...or he might not. But odds aren't good b/c he hasn't changed. I don't know if it will or will not last and it's not my problem anymore. I am glad to be out of it and done.

Am concerned with you b/c of your thought patterns right now. I seriously think it would be good to get on a good antidepressant...my patients do incredibly great on lexapro and it takes much less time to get to steady state meaning that you will get relief from it much faster than with others..I even took it over a year ago briefly...What concerns me is the fact that you are worrying about things you cannot control at all. Only things you should be focusing now on are the unresolved finances or parenting issues that exist.

That's it. Nothing else. Sure, it's normal to feel some of these feelings, but you are worrying about something that's already happened and will continue to happen and I'd like to see you focusing on your...doing nice things for yourself and the kids and focusing on moving ahead in your own life. You don't need a SO to feel good. That comes from inside and you need to find out WHO YOU ARE NOW. Not who you were and your xh doesn't define who you are now.

Something else that upsets me is the fact you talk so much of faith issues yet you pass judgments based on faith upon him. Don't forget the pharisees ok? They were some of the most judgemental pious people as well as the sanhedrin ok? You can say that premarital sex is wrong, affairs are wrong, but God's gonna decide what to do with our xws' ok? It's not up to us.

You talk of faith and love but I don't see it with regard to your xh. It's like you have this love/hate thing with him...hon, the opposite of love is apathy...not caring...versus lashing out. Do you think the words you wrote are going to matter or that it did one ounce of good b/c if he reads it he sees how you're stuck in your life. YOu are.

If somebody wanted someone else to change you gotta remember flies come to honey not to vinegar. But this is something that I still think is not something you can control or do anything about ok?

You're really stuck. And I think both of you have issues to deal with. Both of you. And if you're still stuck here getting mad over your xh, an unmarried man sleeping with a woman, then you need to find another counselor b/c THE ONE YOU HAD BEEN SEEING IMHO ISN'T DOING A LICK OF GOOD. She's not done anything to help you move on and I believe that if you want to move on instead of sitting there wallowing in the cruddy past, then find a new one and dont walk...run to the phone and get an appointment...preferably with a psychologist b/c they can prescribe the med I was talking about ok?

You gotta move ahead.

Like so man have said. So? The subject line says it all...EXh. It really isn't your business what he does. He is a free man and can see or date whomever he wishes. Tell yourself that everytime you start thinking about what he is doing. You'll get to a better place mentally that way.

TR said it very well.

Someone said:
"I disagree. Obviously he felt he could do whatever he wanted when he was married, too, but having a relationship with the woman who was his affair partner will ALWAYS be wrong, even if he had been divorced for 20 years."

Have to add my .2 worth to this. Don't see it that way. Jesus forgives our sins. All of them if we ask. He doesn't forgive some, but not sexual ones. He made a very good example when he publicly forgave an adulteress/whore in the street. I like this quote from Jesus.

"A certain creditor had two debtors; one owed five hundred denarii, and the other fifty. 42 When they could not pay, he forgave them both. Now which of them will love him more?" 43 Simon answered, "The one, I suppose, to whom he forgave more." And he said to him, "You have judged rightly"

xh is going to Arizona?

So???

Why should you care?

Does he have to answer to you these days?

Do you have to answer to him?

He is an adult with free will. He makes his own choices.

Get over him.

I know it takes time. But I would have hoped you would have gotten farther down the healing road by now.

I have been divorced since June of 2003. Almost a year, not quite. Just an update, cause what he writes is not truthful many times, that is why I quit reading his posts. And as far as his identity, he has the problem with not disclosing his true identity. But I think we all know who he is anyway. I do for sure.

I am moving on with my life, and hope to one day become someone of value to a company. I was of no value to the business that I ran for my XH, and now he is reaping the consequences. I on the other hand am going to school, and enjoying the challenges of school, and going to become a professional woman, with a great job.

Yes, there are still triggers, and one of the things that XH still doesn't do, is call me to see if it is okay to come over here. He did it last night, and that will stop, he has been warned. Part of his pattern is he does what he wants without any consideration to others. There is no need for him to be here ever. All the kids drive, and can go to his little bedroom at his mothers house.

I am happy that he will be together with his adulterous woman, the two fit hand and glove. Just want to stay out of his life. His demands are still present, and his obnoxious behavior is still present. If I don't do as he asks, he yells and still calls me occasionally a FB, just 1 1/2 weeks ago. Cause I wouldn't do as he said, I don't have to anymore. But he is still trying to control me, and he hates the boundaries I have set. There are more boundaries, that I am working on, and the counselor I am seeing is helping me.

I am on anti-depressants and will be on them for about another year.

And as far as the injury he did to my shoulder, that will come to an end in June. He will be ordered by the judge to pay the bills, and get my credit clean. See, he preached to me and to my oldest daughter that one doesn't need credit. But he has his mommys credit card to use, and now my oldest daughter has grandmas credit card to use. He screwed his credit for many many years, and he has screwed my oldest daughters credit. But she is realizing that you need a credit card for renting a car, and many other things. As far as him using my SS# and my name for a telephone line that was not approved by me, that will be settled to. I have the paperwork filled out, and if it is not settled, I have no other option but to turn him in for fraud.

He works on his time frame of disorganization, and when he wants to. But now he has to work on the time frame of the divorce decree now, since I have the judge to back me up now.

XH is not marriage material, and until he changes his behavior and attitude, he will be a lonely old overweight bald man.

Things are changing for the better for me. I have gained new friends, and do something almost every weekend. Yes, being in my early 50's is going to be hard, and I may be by myself the rest of my life. Part of being an older woman. But if that is what God has planned for me, I will work and be happy. I enjoy reading, doing my schoolwork, not having someone criticize me. I enjoy my kids, and we are having saturday to go see The Passion. And a cheap dinner. Told the kids, it is going to be tough, and I can't be like disneyland dad and buy airplane tickets, and movies and dinner all the time. They at least know that I care about them, and tell them that I love them everyday. That is what counts, and I said whatever happens happens. I am moving on with my life, and with the Lord.

I really don't ask X what he is doing anymore, cause it doesn't concern me. He just mentioned this last night that he if flying out to ARizona, for what reason I don't know. He doesn't say other things to me, but it could of been a dig to get me, or it could of been just a thoughtful note. Who knows at this point. I do wish that he would move out of state this summer. I do believe it would be beneficial for his mother since he is controlling her life now. And I do believe it would be beneficial for him to get out on his own for a change. Just my beliefs, and that way he won't be around here anymore. Makes breaking away much easier.

I have gotten a few more things done in the house. The leak that has been leaking for about 8 years is fixed, and then another guy is coming out to fix the tile in the bathtub, where the leak was. Part of the tile had to be torn apart.

I got all his old airconditioners and old furnaces cleaned out, it took the guys 3 loads and still is a little left. He just piled them up in the back yard and the pile was huge and mice were building nests in the equipment. When the weather turns nice again, I can rake the area and get it all cleaned up so the lawnmower can go over the area. The yard is starting to look better. By June, the yard should look nice. The boys and I have to level the air-conditioner outside. XH left it really cockided, and it is a miracle the thing runs. All he did was put a bunch of dirt under the plastic form the A/C sits on, and the dirt washed away with the rain. Told him about 3 or 4 years ago, it was getting more crooked, but now, the boys and I can get it level, with blocks. Also, I am going to have the kids help me paint the front of the house that never got finished painted by a deadbeat painter. He didn't do a good job on the house, and the trim is not done. Going to get the trim done too.

Want the house to look somewhat nice for sale, and maybe even start finishing the inside some. I may have to live here for another year, so that would increase the value of the house if more things were done. And then I can get a small place just for me and the animals. And whomever of the kids want to live with me. If I do get the older womans house, it will be ideal. Will find out about that sometime soon.

No more updates on X, for he is history, and is getting out of my mind. Takes time, after 25 years of marriage, that was controlled by him. Divorce was June of 2003. It takes time, but am doing much better than last fall.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> No more updates on X<hr /></blockquote>We will hold you to this, and respond according if you lapse.
Keep the focus on yourself and your future.
We get that which we focus upon, and we've seen you focus on faults of your X too many times.

Picture your life in a year. List all the wonderful things you see at that time. Start a new thread.

Oh, and let this thread die. New beginnings.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Jesus forgives our sins. All of them if we ask. <hr /></blockquote>It must be really handy to believe that - and I know that not all Christians do. Do whatever you want, and as long as you remember to ask for forgiveness before you kick the bucket, you're all set. Those of us who don't believe that have to remain accountable for what we do.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Nellie1:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Jesus forgives our sins. All of them if we ask. <hr /></blockquote>It must be really handy to believe that - and I know that not all Christians do. Do whatever you want, and as long as you remember to ask for forgiveness before you kick the bucket, you're all set. Those of us who don't believe that have to remain accountable for what we do. <hr /></blockquote>Hi Nellie,

I believe that Jesus forgives sin, but that doesn't take away personal responsibility... or consequences for our choices.

Plus, let's face it... just because Jesus forgave me for *my* sins/choices, doesn't mean I've forgiven myself.

If the end-result is about getting to Heaven (as a Christian) then yeah, the buck stops there. But if it is to live a life of integrity here on earth, then there's still work to do -- and ONLY you (me, us - plural) can do that. Personal responsibility.

Just wanted to clarify from another perspective.

Faith..why even play that sucker game.

Why would you even ask him if he was looking her up? Its time..no..past time to move on. When he meets his maker..he will have to answer to the "where have you been and what have you done question"

and you will too...dont't forget that.
Smiles (even thought it was rough day for me!!!),
Dawn

Just a reply from the X. He talked to me tonight, for he is leaving for his Arizona state tomorrow morning. I just got home from school. And will be coming back Tuesday afternoon. He said, that he called the daughter yesterday to see if he could bring stuff over, and it was okay if he came over. I repeated to him, that I have stated many times over and over and I will write it here - Please call and TALK to me (your xwife) to see if it is OKAY to come over. Don't tell the kids you are coming over and then one of the kids come tell me, not acceptable. He stated that that was not the rule, that I could of given up this house, and he would of bought me a little house. Had nothing to do with the conversation. I just continued on with that I have stated it over and over, and my lawyer has stated to your lawyer to please call and talk to me and ask for permission to come over. He got all mad on the phone and went into the same scenario stuff about how I could of given him this house, and I said you got the house that you and the whore had sex in while it was vacant, and he took my settlement money to buy the house. But this is what he does all the time. Continues on his path of putting me down, and not staying on the facts. Then he said, I will ask the kids when he gets back about this. So I will talk to them, and give them the facts. If they want to talk to their dad, they can do it at his little bedroom.

I did tell him that this will stop, one way or another. He has done what he wanted most of the marriage, and during his affair he physically hurt me, and mentally and verbally hurt all of us. And to this day, he gets really upset quite easily.

Class was really good tonight. I am working with a young kid, he is going to help me with a paper that is due next week. I want to get a A if possible. He works for the government, and got an A on his paper. He does policy papers all the time. So he gave me his private e-mail today. Cause I asked Mike if he is going to be in Michigan or out of town this week. And if I can get the first paper wrote, would he mind going over it and editing it for me. He said he would be glad to help. Just a wonderful young man, and so handsome. He is going to make some lady a terrific husband. He is very kind.

So this weekend, I will take the kids to see the passion. And talk to them about the policy of dad calling and asking from me if it is okay. A boundary that has to be initiated. And to talk about Easter services at my church. We have so many new people attending our church now. This Sunday, we have 8 adults being baptized. Never seen an adult get baptized before. I believe that once you are baptized you are baptized forever, and just have to ask for forgiveness.

Yes, I believe, that the Path of God is to ask forgiveness, I have tried to forgive my X, but he continuously pressures me, and tells me what he is going to do in this house, and how he is going to conduct himself even when it pertains to my house. I did give up for awhile, but I see he is starting to treat me as a doormat again, and it is going to stop. He needs to know there are boundaries.

He is not one to obey the rules, which he has stated here many times. He is not a rule follower, and that could be one reason why he is so deep in a big pile of mess. His body is so overweight, he is balding, and doesn't have a friend. I feel sorry for him at times, but he asked for this by being reclusive, and now he is going to find his bimbo to talk to out in Arizona. Which he already has her phone #, so he has already started talking to her already. But he has not tried to better his life. And I have offered to help him, but once again, he is not ready.

Like his paperwork, I offered at one time to do it for $$$ of course. And he once again said he is not ready. He can spend hours and hours here on the boards telling newbies his phylosophy on temperment and such. That is why I quit reading his posts. The same mesaage over and over. At one time recently he said he was going to quit posting here on MB. We will see.

Anyways, I am working on myself, and hopefully have the shoulder surgery that is needed, and get physically fit, and ready for the new me. I want to lose the weight I gained, find a good job, and join a biking club in Ann Arbor. I need a bike first. I picked up about 6 bikes out of the trash, and would like to find someone that could make 1 good bike out of them all. I have always wanted to bike, but while we were married, he didn't want to do anything physically outside. He would rather sit inside and read a book, or be on the computer. So now, I can do this, and would like to get the kids involved, but they are all doing their own thing. So I am going to do this for me, and meet some attractive handsome man that is a christian and loves the great outdoors, and loves God, and life.

But I have to make myself more attractive, and lose these 20#'s. Hard at this age, but I can do it, it came off easily before, cause I wasn't even trying, but the affair, I couldn't eat, couldn't sleep, couldn't think. Now I will do it the right way, and keep it off.

Bye for now. Have to get up early for an appointment, and then off to the library for some work on this assignment. Pray for a good policy paper. I need it. I only got a B on the other paper, and would like to get an A on this one. And then I have a 15-20 page policy paper due for the final exam, and have to do a 15 minute presentation. The 4 of us that are doing ours on the first day, already have a plan on how we are going to introduce ourselves. I feel good inside, that they have accepted this older woman in their group of 4. Just hope I don't fail them. Told them I am scared and hope that I present material that is beneficial and that will give them something to think about with their parents. Most of these kids could be my kids afterall.

new_beginning, Nellie1:

--I believe that Jesus forgives sin, but that doesn't take away personal responsibility... or consequences for our choices.

TR--I agree with this too--and it doesn't mean we don't also suffer because of other people's bad choices--

The thing is though--we have to admit were sinners which means--we are taking responsibility
for our actions and our choices before God--
It's admitting to God--I screwed up--and even with that--it doesn't mean were off the hook from paying the consequences--

If we've hurt someone--were supposed to go back to that person and apologize--acknowledging to them what we did--not just a general--"Oh by the way I'm sorry" --He want's us to let them know we know, understand and are truly sorry for what we did that hurt them--

but at the same time--He want's us to realize they may never forgive us--they may never want to reconcile a relationship--and that is ultimately their choice--but all He requires is that we do our part to make things right--and that He does forgive us--even if others don't--

--Do whatever you want, and as long as you remember to ask for forgiveness before you kick the bucket, you're all set--

TR--Actually, this is not true--yes, I know many people believe and live this way--but it is a false belief--and even discussed in the book of Roman's Chapter 6--(in case you want to look it up
at some point)

--Those of us who don't believe that have to remain accountable for what we do.

TR--And you know--even as Christians, we will be held accountable before God for what we do and don't do as well, including the motivations behind the actions both good and bad--and folks who think other wise--apparently haven't read or studied their bible--and many preachers unfortunately aren't teaching it--but it's all in there--

Faith4me - I read this and I thought huh?? Some people on this thread that are giving you advice do the same thing as you when it comes to thinking about the ex and what goes on in their lives - And for everyone to say stop it - well you know what that is fine and good - but in a perfect world we don't always react the way everyone thinks that we should...I really truly believe that if I could stop myself from thinking about what my ex is doing and with whom I myself would be 100% better... And actually I have found that not speaking to him at all what so ever - is the answer for me - But still I have been betrayed and do I need to let go of that sure I do and I will someday - totally but now and again it does creep back to me - The burning question of Why did he do that to me?? Now I don't even think I care about him anymore at all - but still the fact that I was dumped and put through this hell pops back into my mind... We each have our own journey and advice is great - truly it is - and sometimes in my case the people that are the harshest are the ones that I stop and say - OK you know what they are exactly right and that is what I should and want to do... I think that given time we will all move on... But it isn't up to one person or the other to tell us that enough time has gone by and we should move on - that you should be somewhere else in your path to recovery... Peachy still clash with her ex all of the time... and obsesses over what he is doing and with whom and why?? And is this normal yup and do we think she should be over it - yup and when we read it we say - why is she doing it - but we all have to deal with our own personal situations... I think that day after day you will get better and one day you will wake up and say Ex who??? Good Luck...

Faith4me,

If you ex-h comes to your home and starts telling you how things are going to be--kindly show him the door--

If he refuses to leave--pick up the phone and ask the police to come over and remove him for you--

but, can I say something--You keep posting on here all these things *YOU* are *going* to do--and you know your EX posts and reads here--so I imagine he is playing with your head--to see if YOU are REALLY going to do what you said you are going to do--

It's like a little kid--you tell him no he can't do something--he's going to turn around and do it-
and they will continue to do it--until they suffer the consequences of their actions--

If he has to have to police come cart his butt off a few times for coming into your home and trying to just run rough shod over you--he'll eventually STOP!!

So don't only set boundaries--set up consequences for stepping over those boundaries as well--something that will help him get the point--

Boundaries are only as good as the consequences that follow--

Nellie said:

"I think most people here just want to hear the "good news" - they just want to hear those fairy tale stories about BS's who find some wonderful new SO and live happily ever after."

I disagree that most people are here to hear good news. I believe that most people are here to learn what others did in their lives that led to their good news. I certainly enjoy reading about others' good news--probably because I also read about their struggle that preceded it.

I totally disagree that good news is about a "wonderful new SO". A "wonderful new SO" might be part of someone's good news at some point, but it is usually preceded by lots of good news in many areas of their life, and that good news is usually preceded by the stuggle of learning what others have already learned and can show them. I don't have a "wonderful new SO" but I have good news in my life. I might have more good news tomorrow, and the next day, and the day after that--it depends on what I choose to do today, tomorrow, the next day....

I'm no spring chicken and have financial issues--what's that got to do with the path I choose to take?

Nellie,

"Jesus forgives our sins. All of them if we ask.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It must be really handy to believe that - and I know that not all Christians do. Do whatever you want, and as long as you remember to ask for forgiveness before you kick the bucket, you're all set. Those of us who don't believe that have to remain accountable for what we do. "

Nellie, I'm not wanting to argue, but you comment struck me as very odd. As people WE ALL SIN. You sin too. Their isn't a Christian faith that doesn't teach this. Also as Christians, who believe Jesus has died for our sins, he has assured us that he will forgive us our sins if we ask. Of course you have to mean it and be sincere. There isn't a sin in the world that you can do that won't be forgiven. That includes adultry, murder, rape. You name it. If God did not forgive us our sins, no one would go to Heaven! We as people like to rank sins. Or think that one sin (especially adultry on this forum) is greater and unforgiveable. According to the Bible, God doesn't do that. (Catholic faith teaches that sins are ranked though) Never did I say, or mean, that a person could live as sinful as they wanted as long as they kept asking for forgiveness.

Just wanted to clear things up.

Faith, I’m just going to chime in with the chorus. And we are rather like a Greek Chorus warning the heroine of looming doom. Why are you bothering? To waste any energy on it? Why would you even want to tell an old mistress what you think about her? And the energy and passion you feel towards these two people sounds like something right out of an Italian opera.

When my older daughter starts worrying about Mommy and Daddy and other things she can’t control, she’s learned to think of something else. Of course, she recently told my mother that what she likes to think about is food. Because she really likes food.

I’m not recommending food to anyone over the age of 10! But something else. Or be like Scarlet when it comes to X and his doings – say “I’ll think about that tomorrow.” And then, think of something else. If you’re one of those people that functions better with a bit of drama, stress over your school work. You probably do that anyway.

And I’ll disagree with Peachy and others who say the opposite of love is not hate. Hate is the opposite and the complement of love, just as Yin and Yang are opposites and complements, God and Devil, Good and Evil. The opposite of emotion is apathy. And it is not a complement to emotion, just an opposite.

Hey, maybe we need to words to express “opposite.”

So, where we hope is that you’ll let them go outside of your realm of emotion. Stop feeding their ghosts with your thoughts, and soon they’ll die and wither on the stem.

I read to take my mind of things. Pure escapist stuff usually. If you like mysteries, try Sparkle Hayter’s books – What’s a Girl Gotta Do is the first. The heroine is left by her husband for a younger woman just as her career plummets. And it’s quite funny. And not much love stuff to make you lonely for romance.

Vent vent - an update. X has been in contact with the bimbo Ms. Debi. He sent me an e-mail this morning at 3:15am, before he was leaving for the airport. He is in ARizona with her now. Probably sharing her condo and bedroom. HE would not state it to me in person last night, but sent a very indictive e-mail stating that he has been in contact, and that he is going to meet her this weekend.

Also, he says he is going out there to take his a/c license. Well, he can't lie to me. He doesn't have to take his license out there. He made this point to be with the bimbo. You can take your license anywhere. I found out when I was in Florida. I can take my license at any Sylvan Learning Center. And I asked about a/c licenses, and he can take it here. And have the test sent to the state he is taking it for. The X thinks he can lie to all of us, and will continue on with his lies.

I talked to his mother today, and told her, about what I found out, cause it didn't make sense to me, and she is appalled by his lies. I told her to be careful, cause he is going to try to pull more crap on her. And I am setting a big boundary up for him. No longer is he to be at my house without asking me. This is going to stop, or he is going to pay. I also saw counseling today, and showed her the vindictive e-mail, and she doesn't know who he is, but by is writing he is one messed up man. Just for him to want to be back with her shows that he has no morals, and is very niave. I agree.

I am doing something else that the counselor helped me with legally. Will work on this the next couple of weeks.

This man thinks that he has everyone even you guys at marriage builders fooled. But you are the ones that told me he is already seeing the other woman. And I wanted to believe you, but now I know that this man is the biggest liar of all. All for radical honesty on his part. All newbies, be careful of SNL and who he is now.

Anyways, I am doing okay now, and let the XH and the whore have their fun. They belong to each other with their deceit and lies. She deceited me and used me and manipulated me, and the XH didn't care. WEll, he can be manipulated by this devil of a woman, and he will be shot down sooner than he knows. She is nothing by an immoral and psychologically unstable woman.

All for now. I have to do my paper.

Ok...

Here are some absolutes about divorced people:
1)they are legally able to sleep with ANYBODY THEY WANT TO.
2)Sometime in the future, you might sleep with somebody too.
3)if somebody is having an affair, they will most likely shag the OP ok?
4)if you're divorced and had an affair, you might very well sleep with that person now..or others...who knows?

While he may be there in AZ, get over it. I got over it and completely know that my xh is gonna sleep with his new OW/W and probably at least one more OW on the side, as a kind of bonus or something.

And yea, we know it's immoral and although no longer married, it's still not cool to do that. But get over the sleeping around part. That happened some time ago. Not like it's just another d day again or something. You've known about this for a few years. No surprise there.

Now if he throws curve balls like "I am gay" or "I hid a million gazillion dollars from you and the kids" or he gets another woman preggers like my x did, then that's news. I'd fully expect you to vent about that.

But hon, XWS are what they are.

Don't even try to attempt to hold an EXHUSBAND to the policy of radical honesty because it DOESN'T APPLY TO YOU ANYMORE. Not at all.

I'd fully expect him to sleep around. WS do that ok? Part of the whole deal.

I'd be much more angry b/c he keeps entering your home without your permission.

Focus on what you can change. I know my x was on a business trip and was probably with OW2 when his new W was in labor yesterday...Does it surprise me? No. Not at all. Do I sometimes get shocked by the biggie stuff? Yea. But as time goes on I will get less shocked and less.

You can deal with him about finances and about the kids but don't expect him to do anything moral or decent or good if he didn't do that before ok?

You're still focusing on the affair as though it happened YESTERDAY. Heck he's probably been sleeping with her off and on for the last 2 years ok? That's what I was concerned about. Heck, if it were about something different (the breaking in) or the kids or his not paying CS or Alimony or something I can understand..But don't get shocked by something he's already done.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Faith4me:
X has been in contact with the bimbo...He is in ARizona with her now. Probably sharing her condo and bedroom...Just for him to want to be back with her shows that he has no morals, and is very niave...This man thinks that he has everyone even you guys at marriage builders fooled...he is already seeing the other woman...All for radical honesty on his part...let the XH and the whore have their fun... They belong to each other with their deceit and lies... She deceited me and used me and manipulated me, and the XH didn't care... WEll, he can be manipulated by this devil of a woman, and he will be shot down sooner than he knows... She is nothing by an immoral and psychologically unstable woman...
<hr /></blockquote>Okay, what part of this quote is about YOU?

[ March 19, 2004, 07:07 PM: Message edited by: new_beginning ]

new-beginning NOTHING about me. Yep, I see, but I had to get it off my chest. I will say this from the bottom of my heart. I just can't see myself in this predictament at all. I have morals. I have the love of God. This woman professes to be a christian, just like she did while having sex with my husband at the time. XH doesn't see anything wrong with this. I wonder how he would of felt if it was me having the sex with another man, and then continue on having the sex after the divorce. I just can't get it through my head. Where are the morals, in this. Of course when you do the samatics like XH does, and says he didn't have sex cause he didn't insert his penis in her vagina, but inserted other things in her vagina and everything else. That is sex. We had a little discussion about this last night, and he is all set on he didn't have sex. God is seeing him now committing an adulterous life in from of God our savior.

Just had to vent, cause I feel hurt that I got involved with a man so messed up and so into having a sex bimbo instead of a woman that was morally with God. I just don't understand and will not understand.

And it hurts, still to this day, cause I was mislead, and it hurts that I was so naive in such a distrustful man.

Anyways, I am okay with myself. I know that I am a good person. And I know that God loves me. And I know that I have kept myself without sex for a good 3 years. The X wasn't anything special in the sex department, but I loved him for him, and not his organs. And of course he loved the other woman, and compared my anatomy of my organs being not ample like hers and calling it biology. That hurt. Which I brought up in counseling today.

Anyways, he is the one that has to live with this his whole life. I know that I have been a good woman, and I will wait for that special man to come into my life to give my heart and body to. I can full heartedly say to him, I have only had one, only one man in my life, and that was my hsuband. Can't say my hsuband can say that. He has had other woman in his life, and that should of been a red flag before I married him.

In a way, I talked to X stepmom, and she told me about X's father, and his father had 2 affairs in their marriage. And she said, sounds like my X is following his fathers footsteps. She of course is not happy with the X. Because he didn't even have the courtesy to go to his own fathers funeral. Or even send a card (which I sent a card wtih his name on it), or even call her to send his sympathy.

You say you're the one with all the morals, faith, etc...and you blast him because he's seeing the former OW. You go on and assume the morality and faith of the OW. I don't really think that's cool to assume the faith or the salvation of somebody else. Or lack thereof.

Now granted, moral people don't usually have affairs. But this stuff IS NOT NEW. You know all about it. You've known for over a year about their A.

You say why does he want to sleep with a woman like her when he could sleep with someone moral like you? When you blame the WS or XWS, they just clam up even further and will go to lengths to either avoid you or tick you off even more. Or run to the OP because you are blaming and pointing fingers at them. I say detach and unless it's something big, forget he exists.

If you want him to keep shacking up with her, then keep posting about it here so he can read it and keep calling her names here so he can read it.

Or you could file it away in the mental rolodex and chalk it up to the mentality of a former wayward spouse.

Or you could post about you. You could do something for yourself and post about it. Like go get a new hairstyle or go running at a local park or join a single's club. We want you to heal and enjoy life. It's out there, trust me.

A wayward is going to do what a wayward is going to do ok?

You are too much focusing on what he says, what he does, what his mother says, what everybody thinks about what he is doing/did, where he is, what OW said, etc.

My old counselor said this...Leave alot of this crud alone if you want peace. She said that an affair is like a huge stinking pile of crap. That it is horribly smelly at first because it's fresh but that over time it kinda hardens and you don't smell it as much. But you go and kick it and it gets all stinky again. And that even though you leave the crud pile alone, everybody knows it's really a crud pile and not a bed of dasies. Think of the crud pile and the stink when you want to write or focus on the day to day stuff your x does or what anybody around you thinks about him.

AM READY FOR HELP IN SETTING BOUNDARIES!!!!

1. I am ready to set some serious boundaries. Today has been an awakening of my soul, and my mind to realize nothing is ever going to be easy with the X. He will continue on his path of doing what he wants, when he wants, and how he wants. So here goes, How am I to keep him out of my house? I really would like the help. Cause I am going to move on. This is time for me and me only.

2. Does anyone suggest how I can enforce that X stay away from this house without a PPO? Just asking, cause that will be the step I will have to take if he continues on his path of telling me that he GAVE me this house, while he bought the house in Arizona with his bimbo and used my settlement money, and him and bimbo had sex in that house. He didn't give me this house, I earned this house with my hard work and elbow grease. I would like to do this without a PPO, so any suggestions. Otherwise a PPO will be enforced.

3. How do I take and get the X to keep the kids out of the business of X and I. I do keep the kids out, cause they all have been hurt deeply by this divorce. But X still is still involving the kids, and still going through the kids to tell them that he is coming over. They need to move on with their lives, and he needs to keep only business between he and the kids in his conversation and leave everything else out.

4. Boundaries are need to be set on how many times he calls here too. The business phone is here, but I can easily have it taken out, and my home phone would be out too. But I really don't mind, cause I can use a cell phone for all calls. The business phone was only allowed here for the purpose that he would pay for the home phone. Otherwise, I told him it goes. So I need for him to call only 1 or 2 times a day, no more.

5. I need to set boundaries for me to move ahead. He has moved to the science experiment. At least that is what I was told. So let it be. Cause I will not get involved in his it is only biology persay. I need to hear less of his voice here. And how do I reduce his voice?

6. What about all the things that were suppose to be done per the divorce decree and are not done. Getting the old A/C and furnaces out of the yard. I did that the last few weeks, and a pile is left.

7. What about his paying the doctor, hospital, anethesia bill for the physical injury he did to me. That was suppose to be paid within 90 days of the divorce decree. That was June 6, 2003. What should I do about that?

8. What should I do about his calling me a FB, whenever he feels like it? Is there something I can do about that?

9. What about his lieing. How does one deal with the lies of the person that you loved at one time? I am having a hard time with that, as you can see from the posts. Never thought this man was such a deceitful liar. But wayward spouses are all grouped together I guess. How do you all cope with the lies?

Will type more, took my meds and am getting tired.

I am ready to move on with help from my MB friends.

Ah, Faith... ((((((((((((Faith))))))))))

Listen... I have a bit of a headache myself tonight, so can't type a long response. I've been hanging around here way too much myself lately.

Anyway....

I do want to comment on something quickly:

You asked what to do if he calls you a FB? Walk away. Hang up the phone. Refuse to listen to him. Refuse to engage!

Please take care... it's time.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Faith4me:
 AM READY FOR HELP IN SETTING BOUNDARIES!!!!<hr /></blockquote>Here's hoping.......... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

1. Change the locks.

2. Nope. Apparently only PPO will do it.

3. DON'T TALK TO THEM ABOUT HIM. DON'T TALK TO HIM ABOUT THEM.

4. Business phone O-U-T.
WHEN HE CALLS AND YOU HEAR HIS VOICE, HANG UP. Do not engage.
DO NOT ENGAGE.
DO NOT ENGAGE.

5. See #4 above.

6. Make a list of the things that are not done yet and send it, along with the divorce agreement that states he will do them to your attorney.

7. Keep sic'ing the creditors on him. Give them HIS phone # when they call. Write back to them when they send threatening letters and give them HIS new addy. MAKE COPIES OF ALL THE BILLS HE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR AND HASN'T PAID AND SENT THAT TO YOUR ATTORNEY AS WELL.

8. See #4 above.

9. SEE #FOUR ABOVE.

I don't have an attorney as yet. I have made a call, and the only thing that will get me through this is to show him that I mean business. He will say I am being mean and vindictive. But that is his words, and only his words.

I have struggled with a severe headache since yesterday morning. I know it is stress, and I know it is the lie that he told me again. I hate his lieing, I hate that he doesn't see that there is anything wrong with him. I hate myself for giving my body and my life to this man. Cause I didn't want the divorce, and he did. Just like he wanted the affair, and now he is back with the Ms. Debi.

But I have to move on. And yes, I have written him a e-mail telling him that thins are changing. We talked a little today, and I told him things are going to be different when he gets back, and he went on I am being mean and vindictive. But the kids now know that dad is seeing Ms. Debi cause I decided that they should know. They were hurt.

A friend of mine told me to start writing in my journal again. So I am. The headache is still here. And yesterday I was not wanting to live. But today I am. He is not worth giving up my life for. He is not worth that at all. My children would be so devastated if I were to kill myself. I talked to someone very dear and special last night that helped me through this, and made me realize what impact this would do on my kids. So no I want to live, I want to find someone that really enjoys me as a wonderful woman, a kind woman, a loving woman, a sensitive woman. A woman that loves animals, the beauty of the Lord, the beauty of our nation, and the beauty of family and friends.

The x never put much presidence into my family. Just his, but my family loves me and loves my kids. He doesn't keep up with his family, and he has no friends except now for his Ms. Debi. He doesn't even talk to his brother. They don't get along, and of course X put the blame on his brother and his brother states it is X's fault. X is a loner, doesn't do much outside of the house and computer. But I am going to sell some of the stuff here, and get that bike that I so much want. I want to join the biking club in Ann Arbor. And now I am joining a divorce group in Ann Arbor. It was highly recommended by the counseling group I am in. They are starting a new session of 8 weeks, and I signed up.

Also, I am going to start dieting for good. Been pretty easy the last 2 days not to eat. When I get stressed out I don't eat. So probably have lost a couple of pounds, food just doesn't want to go down.

Also, telling the Dr. that I am going to see for my daughter, the X will be there as well as the daughter. I am going to tell them what the X did as far as the affair, and the ballistic actions, because the info that I have, states that stress could have indications towards her disesase that she has. I did mention this to the X, and he got all angry. There is onething that he doesn't like to be told, and that he is in the wrong.

I admitted to him several times today that I have done wrong, but he never once stated anything that he did wrong. Just more justification of his anger and wrongness.

So I should get the business phone out of the house? Well, I will definitely bring that up with the lawyer I see. As well as the medical bills, telephone, to get my name off, and the past medical bills that are not paid. I will tell the lawyer that this has been his plan for years and years. He doesn't pay medical bills cause he feels that they charge too much. Then he will settle for much less 4 or 5 years later. Not the way that I was raised, and he wasn't raised that way. His mother pays all her bills.

I talked with his mother today for about 1 hour. She is so depresseed, and she is so down. I tried lifting her up. But her son is destroying her life. He is controlling her house, this is her house not his, and is not getting the house done. And it is such a mess 1/2 of the house. I hated to tell her the truth so I didn't, but she is going to end up like me, house not done and then he will leave her to the mess.

I also, stated to him too, that he has cried wolf too much, about his procrastination. He uses the procrastination as a excuse now, and I realize this is an easy way out for him. That way he doesn't have to accept responsiblity for his lack of interest in getting things done. So no more am I accepting those words. I am going to tell him, you have knows this for at least 30 years, and you do nothing about it. I gave him a book called 'Organization from the Inside Out', he never read the book. I gave him some seminars on getting organized, and he never went. I offered during our whole marriage to organize. I would of loved if he just left me be, but he had to interfere, and of course things didn't get done. Cause he changes his mind, wants things done one way and then changes it. That is what the one guy said who was working on the house, he finally gave up. See a controller rules, everything everything and won't let anyone take responsibility for anything. I can't live like that and now that I own this house, I am getting things done, and I have found good character people. So far, I knock on wood.

Anyways, I am getting tired, and my eyes are hurting so bad. Part is the spasms are coming back. I hate living like this, and I may have to have X cover me the rest of my life for the damage he did to me. Will see.

Hopefully, I will hear from the lawyer. She will be able to help me in decisions of my future. The X is still playing 'wolf' for procrastination on not getting things done. And that will bepresented to her. I can if she needs prove to her that at present he is still doing the same thing. Just get his credit report. He has surgeries from 6-7-8 years ago that were never paid. Also, I can file for mental damages, which I didn't realize for the collectors calling me and harassing me, because he has not paid the medical bills that he is responsible for for the injury he inflicted on me. Which of course he doesn't think he did, by his writings here on MB.

Monday is going to be a difficult day, but a needed day of talking to the lawyer. Also, I get more of my life in order, with my financial resource.

I saw the movie, 'The Passion', I cried during much of the movie. It was difficult to see the suffering Jesus endured for our sins. He had all his faith in his father, and asked for forgiveness of those that were afflicting severe punishment on him. He spoke directly and asked to forgive these people, for they did not know what they were doing. And justly mislead in statement his blasphemy of being the King. I had a hard time with the movie, and would of loved to have someone hold me. But I cried an cried. No one else in my family cried. But thought it was funny that I was crying. The movie hit hard, and I should forgive my X for his adulterous life, his lies, but it is so hard. And his continuous adulterous life, and his continuous lies. I am going to work on this, and hopefully God will help the X out.

Getting ready for church, Need Pastor Jim more than ever today. Will talk to him later, made an appointment. Told him briefly, that the X has been talking to the horrendous Ms. Bimbo, and that he is seeing her. He just said, the man seems he will never learn. Seems he is looking with the devils eyes, and wanting to lead the life of an adulterous man. He has put his feet in the goals of fire, and he will get burnt. But we will pray. Bye for later. I have plans to go out with a few people at church after our lessons. See you later and God Bless everyone.

PLEASE START WITH NO DIRECT CONTACT except perhaps e-mail. Life is too short to focus on the failings of another human being. For whatever reason, you two are sick together.

I am trying, hard as I can, to do my part to help us dig out of the morass we are in, but we have a program of recovery. For you two, it just seems like a victim distraction.

You have a lot of control over your life. Before the affair started, I remember telling Tom, "My life is not dependent on what Sophia does." Now I realize, "My life is not dependent on what Tom does."

Cherished, I feel good that my life does not depend on what Joe does. He controlled me in every move. I couldn't even paint a wall without his okay. So yes I am doing more than I have in the last 10 years. I feel sorry for the woman that he might marry. I don't think him and the OW will marry. Cause the other woman saw through his controlling behavior, that is what she told me. And maybe she is desperate this time, cause she lost her husband, who knows.

But I know that I am going to be much happier without a controller dictating my where abouts, and whom I can talk to.

I do care about him, but he is a big man, and a high controller. So even if a psychologist were to tell him anything, he doesn't listen. That is why the Harleys, finally gave up on him, he wouldn't do the things that they told him to do.

I talked to someone today about a bike. I said that is one thing that I have always wanted was a bike to ride. And join a group of riders. They are looking into a used one for me. I am going to take my one daughter out to the store that she recommended for a good used bike. So we may go this coming month. I told her I can wait till then, cause I will see the Dr. the end of this month about my shoulder, and if I should have the surgery.

That way, I will meet more people, and have more friends. I would like to get one of my friends involved in the Ann Arbor biking club. Maybe that will happen. I know it would be valuable for both of us.

I do feel sorry for my children, after I told them about dad seeing Ms. Debi, they were not happy. I hate to see that this family is no longer a family. But that is part of life, and part of growing up.

Church was really good today. About how christ died for our sins, and how the picture depicted that statement. Not so much the suffering, but how Christ did not ever give up, he kept his stance on forgiveness of others, and kept his focus on forgiveness.

I am trying to forgive my X, but it is hard when he lies, and is disrespectul.

You wanted boundaries and now you keep posting about your x.

X with bimbo. X committing adultery. Well he did commit adultery but that's before he was divorced. He's free to shag whoever he wants now and SO ARE YOU. So it's not against your vows anymore. This is now between he and his maker.

I don't get it. You still talk about him finding faith, your wanting him to change. And what does it matter if your kids don't cry? I don't cry at a lot of movies and it doesn't make me a better person or less of a person or anything. Different people will just react differently.

You pass judgement on him again saying his feet will be burned as if by hot coals...actually the verse in the Bible says that it is "heaping hot coals into your lap" not your feet...so when you want to judge him, use the correct context. I still think you're taking the wrong approach here.

First of all, your judging him and posting those judgemental thoughts are a huge LB and will only make him, when he reads it, react more negatively against you. And you should be past LB'ing anyway as you're divorced. But I swear, I hear it in your words and want you to get real.

Your words convey to me and maybe to everybody that you aren't letting go at all. You're fixated on it and honestly, I think you want him back. Did you read anything I posted to you? He's free. You're free. Sure, he wronged you and your family when he slept around, but he can do that now and they do those things after divorcing. But funny thing happens when you divorce, you GET FREE TOO. He's going to sleep with other women. Maybe more than this old OW as well.

When will you get it that you can't change him. God works in his own time and it might not be anytime soon, if ever. If I were your xh and read your words, Id think you needed to get on with your life, feel further distant from you and not want to even talk to you with your tone being so judgemental.

It's wonderful you have your faith. But it is not one that's allowing you to let him go. I believe you're severely co dependent on him and you posted back to me that you're on antidepressants already. Which one? I told you which one has worked greatly on my patients. Have you gone to a real psych who can eval. your sitch now and help with the moving on and healing and get you on the right med?

Look. My old sitch is so much worse with regard to my x and his instant remarriage/birth/re-emergence of second OW but it's not who I am. I am not a part of that anymore. I just kinda stand back and shake my head now fully aware that nothing I do will matter and I am ok with this. My life is mine now and I've taken it back. I had to or else I was never really living at all.

You can't live your life in this destructive limbo any more. Is your pastor committed to helping you move on or is he praying actively for the "return of the prodigal" as I see so many doing? You're stuck. I suggest you get real with yourself and either 1)decide you want him back or 2)decide you want to move on. If you opt for 1, then RE LEARN MB TECHNIQUES b/c you're blowing it big time my dear. I am being totally honest here. I think you do want him back. And there's no shame if that is where you are led to be. But it's not for everybody and not for me and that's ok. But if you choose option 2, then REALLY LISTEN TO WHAT THE POSTERS HERE SAY B/C YOU'RE NOT DOING A DARN THING DIFFERENT.

I posted to somebody else this quote and I live by it now:
"The definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing over and over expecting the outcome to be different"...Einstein.

You are literally cycling on and on. You go from anger at something he does or does not do, let him enter your home at will or something stupid like that, then you proceed to judging him/ getting angry to writing something about God/wrath/salvation to next declaring your independence again...then something will happen and you will cycle all over again. It is very predictable.

Before you can help yourself, you need to be real with yourself. What is it you really want? If you want him back spouting religious judgements and angry outbursts here isn't going to accomplish anything and will make him react very negatively to you.

If you don't want him back, you need to take the advice and for me, get a psych and appropriate meds now. This has taken too long. Also, a person doesn't stay usually on same antidepressive med for this long without the care provider decidint it isn't working or changing their med...most take it for a few months to get them through their crisis mode.

But I also have an alternate theory here...the "reation" theory. I've always supposed that the opposite of love isn't hate, it's indifference. Hence, my being able to go weeks literally without needing or having any desire whatsoever to contact my x....only do so when it's a specific purpose these days. I've also learned as a mother and as somebody w/minor in psych this little bit...

You have been wanting a reaction outta your x. Why else would you fight with him now, allow him to enter your home then complain b/c he's there using your computer or something...Why else would you post here and complain and judge him over and over? And from time to time he actually posts here and vents and responds to your words. It's like you're goading him to see if he is reading your thoughts here. It's as if he isn't responding at all to you and the only way you can get his attention is by lashing out at him or being passive/agressive (with the coming into your house) or judging and bashing him when you know he reads here and posts here...That is a given.

I am looking at your motive for doing this and it is obvious to me now. You want his attention and you are going to get it somehow. I see this as destructive faith. If you were moving on, you'd post about you, change the locks, or not let it bother you if he is in your home. You'd let it slide and do your own thing. If you were not wanting some kind of reaction (ALSO KNOWN AS REINFORCEMENT), YOU WOULD NOT DO ANY OF THIS.

His getting angry and lashing out by posting here is REINFORCING YOUR NEGATIVE BEHAVIOR. And it's a reinforcement nontheless and you're still continuing to do this.

Please don't get angry at me. I have been exactly where you were at one time. But I realized that it was not good for me to be stuck in a time warp and that life indeed goes on.

I don't think you can break this cycle alone. Your counselor should have already spotted this. They are supposed to teach better coping techniques and better behavioral alternatives so that we change our life outcomes. I don't see anything at all different with regard to you.

And faith cannot be a crutch right now. It's easy to hide and not deal with things. I used to pray fervently Psalm 25. Was like it was written for me. I'd pray day in day out (about 1/5 years ago) that God would change the heart of my x, that he'd quit with his lifestyle, that he'd see the judgement coming at him and change. And one day, I realized something. God is here for me, but I HAVE TO DO A FEW THINGS MYSELF AS WELL. He expects us to. Leave the supernatural and the things YOU CANNOT CHANGE up to HIM. Your x is one of them.

I believe in the end either way, if you decide your heart and soul says you want him back or if you decide that you want him out of your life PERMANENTLY, then some changes MUST TAKE PLACE FOR ANYTHING TO EFFECTIVELY WORK. And you must work on you. That means working through this cycling behavior, breaking the cycle of reinforcement of this behavior, and getting in control of your life.

No man or friend or child or relative wants to be around somebody who's always spouting the same stuff at them and who at the same time talks of love and faith and then in the next sentence slams a religious judgment upon them. I know this really well...my xIL's do that constantly. Plus it's time for healing now.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />So I should get the business phone out of the house? <hr /></blockquote>Duh!
You own the house now right.
Get the telephone line disconnected.
Because you like to play nice, tell him (in writing) that unless he has his number forwarded to his new address by X date, you will have the line canceled.

I can't imagine it would be legal to have a telephone line into someone else's home is it?You're still enabling his poor behavior.

And get it in writing that he isn't allowed in the house. And write contracts for the kids to sign that if they don't agree, they must leave the house and find another place to live. If you enforce this, you'll have far fewer problems than you have now.

Peachy - I don't want this man back, cause who he is now, like your xh is not marriage material.

I want peace and want him out of my life. There is nothing that really attracts me to him.

I do at times get emotional, cause it was an emotional dance that he controlled for many many years. I had to swing to every move of his, for he would get angry and lash out with vindictive words. I want my life happy, with another man, if that is what God wants, and a man that loves me for me and not for what I can give.

It is coming, and I have had to find that my X is still on his woe is me syndrome. I went and did my taxes today, and the X didn't even send in the taxes. So it is being handled now, with intervention of calling the tax accountant we had as married, and my new tax accountant.

My accountant found a discrepancy in the tax form, and that is being addressed too.

I just wanted my taxes done on time, and now they won't, cause Mr. X has done his thing like everything else, procrastinate.

There are going to be boundaries when he is back in this state. He is not allowed at my house at all unless he has my okay. And he tells me that he is allowed to come and go in my house as he pleases. No way, and I have been telling him for about a year and he still doesn't abide. Well, he will have to abide now. I also, talked to a lawyer, and they are referring me to another lawyer. Will call them tomorrow. If not I will go back to the first one I talked to, and have to see what they have to say. It costs money, but the initial cost will give me the information that I need.

Controllers are the ones that think the world should run around them. Well, they have to know that there are boundaries to be abided to.

As for myself, it is hard, cause I seem to have to fight for existence all the time. X has screwed up my credit report with his not paying the hospital bills from the injury that he did to me. The fraud phone he had put in. The health insurance is so ridiculous. So things like this are going to be settled.

Everyone here on MB and my counselor told me that I have to start setting the boundaries and taking care of my self. For he is out to screw me, and continue screwing me cause I let him. So that is it, he wants to shoot me with his coercing and manipulation. I am fighting for my existence, and for what is right. I am tired of his lies, and his deceit.

It takes awhile to get me really mad, but I have gotten there, and I am not going to have him monitor me and tell me what I can and cannot do. He is a free man, and I am a free woman, and I am going to fight for my credit report being 100% okay. He has screwed up my oldest daughter credit report, my 2nd daughters credit report. He no longer is going to do this, and the lawyer will be told this too. As for the Dr. appointment, the Dr. will be told what has happened in the last 3 years with his affair, and his ballistic attitude and calling all of us f*cking something and screaming and yelling at all of us. So this is going to be corrected.

I no longer want a controlling man in my life. I do care about him, only that he was part of my life for 25 years. But no longer am I going to have a heart for him.

He has made it clear that his other woman is the love of his life. So be it. I hope that they have a good time, and enjoy each other in scientific study or biology.

I never knew that this man could be so vindictive and mean. I never knew that he would demean me. And do things diliberately to hurt me. But that is a wayward spouse, once they do it, they always do it. Like you said, once they lie they always lie.

Just hurts that I allowed myself to fall in love with this man. And gave him my body and soul.

I will move on and find someone that is kind, considerate and loving. If God wants me too. For now I enjoy my children, who I love very much. They are the ones that I would give my right arm or leg to. They deserve better than this, and it is sad for my kids.

Peachy, I don't get upset with your writings. I feel you are being radically honest, and I am being radically honest with you. I do care about my X, but I don't love him persay like a husband. He has gone too far in the rotten sttate of the devil. But I do pray for him, and wish him happiness in his continued love and sex with the other Ms. Debi. He is committing adultery according to Gods eyes and mine. But that is his and her life.

I can still pray for those that I care about. And I will. Doesn't mean that I want him back. I don't, cause he is not a considerate man now. He is selfish and controlling as he always has been.

My daughter is so upset that she is sitting at the phones all day. She can't do anything, and I told her, that is what your dad wants. I said I did this since 1990 fulltime and never got paid. And he didn't consider my feelings, that I was stuck listening to the phones and couldn't interact outside the home. And if I did, I couldn't continue. LIke joing the weight loss program. AFter missing 3 classes, I finally quit, and said this won't work. And I tried going to art class, and had to miss classes, and finally quit. The same for going to school and taking night classes at the high school for college credit. I had to quit. Same old, same old.

Just now I am unable to afford much, with the money situation and the pain I suffer with my back and neck.

Will possibly have to go further into that with the lawyer. We will see. I have had it, I am done so done, that I could just cry. This man continues on his path of beating me with his calling wolf of he is not good at paperwork. It is about time he did something about it. So I am doing something about it on my side and he will just have to appear and pay up what he should have been doing.

It is sad, when you get these feelings of mistrust towards the one that you loved at one time. But that is what happens in a divorce.

Peachy, you get on the down trend too. I feel your pain and your loss of love. Your husband has screwed up pretty big too. Just like my X has. They both will have to repent in Heaven when they see the Lord.

Have to go for now. Been on the phone with lawyers today, accountants, and trying to get some of my life back in order. My X has really screwed up my life with finances, and lies. Just like yours. But I want it all resolved, and finally settled. I want my credit clear and totally disconnected from him and he goes live in Arizona and I can live here for the time being and get my life in order.

Same with you, you want your life back. But they keep interfering and prodding us, like cattle. We have to learn to not let them do this to us, and we need to learn to not let them get to our buttons. I am closing the gap on the opening, just been taking awhile, and after today, I could just (throw manure at him). He is so vindictive and mean.

Bye for now.

Faith,

When you go to the doctor at the end of the month about your shoulder, what purpose will it serve to tell him about your ex's affair??It's just another place where you can possibly get some pity. And the doctor won't care that he called you a F###ing B@@@@.

And if he's ruining your daughter's credit, then it is her responsibility to take care of it. NOT YOURS!!

Mitzi <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Well, I guess that my oldest daughter is reading my posts all the time. She was rude to me once again, and that is part of the following her dads actions. She criticizes me, but once again, will she criticize her father, NOPE. He gives her everything.

So I will be typing very little, just a few statements. To notify you that things are getting better or what is happening to a bit. Oldest daughter even stated that I am dating. Heck, I am not dating, and I will place my hand on the bible. I have been talking to a guy, in fact a few guys, and that is it. I have done some things with these men at different times, but mostly with my church group. Yes, they are nice guys, but I am really not interested at this point. I am not interested in dating. But then I said to her, your father is dating Ms. Debi in ARizona, and she gets all defensive. She models herself after her father, and I just have to let her go and find out for herself with the hard knocks.

She is like her father, so here goes, I am to tell you all that she told me that she asked for her to go to the counselor with me this week. I said, maybe in 3 weeks, but we have an agenda, and I have asked all of them since their fathers affair, to go to counseling. But they listened to their father and his theory of lust and adultery and relationships. I asked repeadedly for the kids to go to counseling, and they said no. This has been over 2 years ago. I haven't asked in such a long time. Now, all of a sudden she wants to go this Friday, and I am to give my time up with my counselor and have her go. No, not going to happen. I did say maybe in a few weeks, but she went on oh so now that is the story. She talks like her father, and acts like her father. That is the identical statement her father would say. I just told her that it will be that way. And if she doesn't like it she can move in with her father.

Time is limited again, see Joe is a controller, and my daughter is following her fathers steps. I hate to see this, but she is 25 and knows how her father has controlled her life and really messed up her life. If she isn't willing to open her eyes, then that is something she will have to learn by herself. Now she is trying to control me here on MB, so oldest daughter I did type what you wanted, but no more. These are the exact words of your father, and this is really not a responsible way for a person to live. Think about what you said, and I did this, just to show the MB here how my life has been with your father and now you are following his footsteps.

Time to go. Busy with my homework.

Peachy, I have a feeling of what you are going to say. So go ahead and say it. I did tell her to move out. And she doesn't do many of her chores here. She makes excuses now cause her hand is in a cast. Is part of dad again, dad makes excuses for his losing things, not getting things done. And she is following the excuse pattern. I still love this daugher, but I don't like her actions. I hate to see her follow her fathers steps, cause her father has no friends, and this daughter is a very nice young woman with a great head on her shoulders, and people do like her. Cause she has my sociable side, and people do like her cause she is really kind inside, just her angers get out in very hostile manner. I do feel when she is out on her own and having to deal with everything by herself, she will straighten up. Right now she is under her dads rules, cause dad is paying for everything. She is stuck in an ugly position. And once again, she is doing what I did all those years. Answer the phone and no recognition, no pay, and no gratification.

I was talking to the accountants wife today, she knows X and I very well. And she made a comment, that she got a paycheck from the very first day that she worked for her husband. I told her that the counselors we saw (Harleys) and the counselors I have saw since then, said, if a husband cared and loved their wife they would of given you a paycheck from the very beginning. She agreed, and her husband wanted it for her from the very beginning. I told her that I asked over and over from my X and he said no. Because X didn't care what happened to me. This has been evident during the last 3 years. I have learned a lot, and seen the signs that I was only a machine for X, not a woman of caring and love.

The accountants wife, actually knows a little about the church I go to. And some people have been asking about me. So she is going to update them on what is happening. She and I prayed together, and said that she will put me and the kids in her prayers tonight. She is so happy with her husband of a long term marriage. And her husband is very loving and kind to her and is very happy. They have 3 children that all are married, and it was so nice to talk to her. So she gave me her new house # and said to call her next month. She wants to keep in touch, and I told her I was afraid to call, cause that Joe might get mad at me. But she informed me that she was very happy that I called, and wants to keep in touch.

Better go, been a rough few hours, when I started in daughters room to reiterate that the rules are that dad has to call me when he wants to come over. And she got so mad. I just said, I want to make sure, cause she literally does what dad wants. So anyways, she is upset, which she has the right to be, and I am upset, which I have the right to be. See, she has to answer the business line and I just wanted her to know that dad has to ask permission. Oh yes, she did say that is a stupid rule, and you are being stupid. More of dad and his talk. No respect from daughter and no respect from dad. Daughter like father.

This is outta control.

First of all, I don't state if or if not my x is marriage material. Literally any single person can be eligible for marriage if they are of a certain age and in some states, different sexes. And not relatives...(some of mine are in alabama, lol!) But hey, I grew up in MS.

Our x's are completely different. And I am not going to judge yours because your continued personal interaction w/him is MAKING IT ALL WORSE.

Now suddenly your DAUGHTER is here reading your posts. Why in the hades is your child/children reading up on your marital breakdown? They are still kids. And here you go on and on talking to them about "shameful Ms. Debi and their sex affair" and whatnot. Well I am sorry. You're forcing them to take sides and it's not healthy to blame one parent so openly. I don't care, I just ignore whole fact of x and his new W and baby with my son and if he asks me a question, I answer it UNBIASEDLY and then quickly move onto a more positive topic. How hard is that to do? Sucking a child into the drama of the parent is just damn wrong.

Whether they're five or fifteen , it's wrong.

And yea, I do get down but IT IS VALID. About finances, the stress and sometimes a vent now and then but no he said, she said and we don't go back and forth daily and I don't involve my son in it and I have boundaries with the man. Clear cut ones. And my down days are fewer and farther between than they were say a year ago.

What worries me is earlier you wrote of not wanting to live...are you still really on antidepressives? If you are, you'd best get to the doc or psych asap. Time for a big time med change if you're still having some mild suicidal thoughts. And your doc doesn't need to hear how your x committed adultery. Heck, I'd guess 99 percent of everybody here has gone through adultery. While the new crap an x can come up with is worthy of shock and awe, how long does it take to sink in that they did the affair, the deed has been done for some time now. Why the crap even mentioning Ms. Debi's name anymore? It's not new news.

What is bothering me most now is that your child is reading this and you are being completely passive/agressive about it. You post how decent she is but yet say negative things about her just like you do about her dad. Change your password here asap as your KIDS DO NOT NEED TO BE SURFING ON THE DIVORCED FORUM. This is a safe place for adults experiencing this transition and is a damaging and sad place for a child to wind up reading of especially if one of the posters is their parent...and especially if they read how their own parent is struggling with thoughts of suicide possibly.

I am believeing 100 percent now that you are all about getting a reaction out of your family and trying to somehow get your way...I don't know what it is. With the kids I think it is respect and them choosing you as the number one parent and them displacing their dad. With your x, you believe if you post negatively enough about him, about his continuing seeing the former OW, that we will jump down on him and bash him morally and take your side and voila! He will as a result of peer pressure here take your side and give up his ideas of being single and dating around and cave in and become who you want him to be.

If you were really wanting something else, you'd NOT ALLOW YOUR KIDS TO READ THIS STUFF. It's painful enough for adults, but to get the kids here is just plain wrong and I am offended by it as a parent. And it's a very sticky sitch too when your x gets on here and you both verbally have it out instead of speaking or emailing directly.

You've got huge family issues and I am saying to leave the kids out of it now completely.

I am asking you why now...why any of this? You are allowing your entire family to be privy to a place that is supposed to be private and supportive for you. It is betraying your healing when you do this. And it's scarring them. Do you think if they read about your crying, suffering, your thoughts regarding religion that it will spur them to change by virtue of reading your posts? People have what's called free will and they will especially to excessive lengths to preserve that will when somebody whether passively or aggressively tries to make them become somebody they are not.

I would throw my computer off of a 20 story building or out the window if I thought even once my son could be reading my posts as your child is.

Stop the controlling cycle. You are going too far. Get the kids outta your problems. Break this cycle once and for all. You cycle right back like I said earlier. Back to the passive aggressive/blame/mention the husband peppered with religious dogma posts. I don't think you can help it anymore.

I am not being mean, it is what it is. I have experienced several of my patients like this too. They constantly re-live each day their trauma of their abuse or divorce and don't get proper help for it. It keeps them frozen and they don't move on towards the future.

Also, I don't think you're being honest here with regard to your being around other men. Your daughter says you're dating...Hmmm. As a daughter who's dad died almost five years ago, I knew immediately when my own mother started dating a few years back. Pretty easy to note. And how is you dating or talking to men any different than your x talking to the former OW? Well, if you establish a relationship with any of these guys in the future are you calling yourself then an adulterer? Your x may be having premarital sex and had an affair with the ow, but it is different now b/c he's single. He should have had the honesty first and gotten single before sleeping around and I wish my x had done that...might have ended up feeling a bit differently about the mere thought of him and not get sickened when I see him or hear his voice mind you...But I can say that my dating is not adultery. And my x may have married the OW, but that's his deal. And sure, he's cheating on her now but that's HIS PROBLEM AND NOT MINE ANYMORE. Shocking yes, indecent yes, but NOT MY PROBLEM. I don't discuss with him his relationships and he has NO RIGHT TO DISCUSS MINE.

If you want to have a date, then have one. No need for explaining it away here to us. We are all for you moving ahead if that's what you want to do. But your minimizing it here makes me think you DON'T WANT YOUR X to know that you're doing it or considering dating one of these guys...no secrecy anymore. No need for it. In fact, you don't have to tell anybody if you want a date. I only posted about my dating AFTER i went out on a few. That was something I had to deal with alone.

Enough of this. Please stop this cycle. Is it apparent to you now that this is happening? The cycle? Same thing over and over like a broken record.

Faith,
I really think you need to tell oldest daughter to leave. She does not respect you and she needs to be on her own to become a independant well functioning adult. Not to be cruel but she is turning into you. She depends on her Father for everything and is unable to move ahead with her life. Is that what you want? Do you want her to be where you are in 30 years? The best thing you can do for her is boot her out of the nest. Tell her you love her but it's time to grow up.

This is outta control.

First of all, I don't state if or if not my x is marriage material. Literally any single person can be eligible for marriage if they are of a certain age and in some states, different sexes. And not relatives...(some of mine are in alabama, lol!) But hey, I grew up in MS.

Our x's are completely different. And I am not going to judge yours because your continued personal interaction w/him is MAKING IT ALL WORSE.

Now suddenly your DAUGHTER is here reading your posts. Why in the hades is your child/children reading up on your marital breakdown? They are still kids. And here you go on and on talking to them about "shameful Ms. Debi and their sex affair" and whatnot. Well I am sorry. You're forcing them to take sides and it's not healthy to blame one parent so openly. I don't care, I just ignore whole fact of x and his new W and baby with my son and if he asks me a question, I answer it UNBIASEDLY and then quickly move onto a more positive topic. How hard is that to do? Sucking a child into the drama of the parent is just damn wrong.

Whether they're five or fifteen , it's wrong.

And yea, I do get down but IT IS VALID. About finances, the stress and sometimes a vent now and then but no he said, she said and we don't go back and forth daily and I don't involve my son in it and I have boundaries with the man. Clear cut ones. And my down days are fewer and farther between than they were say a year ago.

What worries me is earlier you wrote of not wanting to live...are you still really on antidepressives? If you are, you'd best get to the doc or psych asap. Time for a big time med change if you're still having some mild suicidal thoughts. And your doc doesn't need to hear how your x committed adultery. Heck, I'd guess 99 percent of everybody here has gone through adultery. While the new crap an x can come up with is worthy of shock and awe, how long does it take to sink in that they did the affair, the deed has been done for some time now. Why the crap even mentioning Ms. Debi's name anymore? It's not new news.

What is bothering me most now is that your child is reading this and you are being completely passive/agressive about it. You post how decent she is but yet say negative things about her just like you do about her dad. Change your password here asap as your KIDS DO NOT NEED TO BE SURFING ON THE DIVORCED FORUM. This is a safe place for adults experiencing this transition and is a damaging and sad place for a child to wind up reading of especially if one of the posters is their parent...and especially if they read how their own parent is struggling with thoughts of suicide possibly.

I am believeing 100 percent now that you are all about getting a reaction out of your family and trying to somehow get your way...I don't know what it is. With the kids I think it is respect and them choosing you as the number one parent and them displacing their dad. With your x, you believe if you post negatively enough about him, about his continuing seeing the former OW, that we will jump down on him and bash him morally and take your side and voila! He will as a result of peer pressure here take your side and give up his ideas of being single and dating around and cave in and become who you want him to be.

If you were really wanting something else, you'd NOT ALLOW YOUR KIDS TO READ THIS STUFF. It's painful enough for adults, but to get the kids here is just plain wrong and I am offended by it as a parent. And it's a very sticky sitch too when your x gets on here and you both verbally have it out instead of speaking or emailing directly.

You've got huge family issues and I am saying to leave the kids out of it now completely.

I am asking you why now...why any of this? You are allowing your entire family to be privy to a place that is supposed to be private and supportive for you. It is betraying your healing when you do this. And it's scarring them. Do you think if they read about your crying, suffering, your thoughts regarding religion that it will spur them to change by virtue of reading your posts? People have what's called free will and they will especially to excessive lengths to preserve that will when somebody whether passively or aggressively tries to make them become somebody they are not.

I would throw my computer off of a 20 story building or out the window if I thought even once my son could be reading my posts as your child is.

Stop the controlling cycle. You are going too far. Get the kids outta your problems. Break this cycle once and for all. You cycle right back like I said earlier. Back to the passive aggressive/blame/mention the husband peppered with religious dogma posts. I don't think you can help it anymore.

I am not being mean, it is what it is. I have experienced several of my patients like this too. They constantly re-live each day their trauma of their abuse or divorce and don't get proper help for it. It keeps them frozen and they don't move on towards the future.

Also, I don't think you're being honest here with regard to your being around other men. Your daughter says you're dating...Hmmm. As a daughter who's dad died almost five years ago, I knew immediately when my own mother started dating a few years back. Pretty easy to note. And how is you dating or talking to men any different than your x talking to the former OW? Well, if you establish a relationship with any of these guys in the future are you calling yourself then an adulterer? Your x may be having premarital sex and had an affair with the ow, but it is different now b/c he's single. He should have had the honesty first and gotten single before sleeping around and I wish my x had done that...might have ended up feeling a bit differently about the mere thought of him and not get sickened when I see him or hear his voice mind you...But I can say that my dating is not adultery. And my x may have married the OW, but that's his deal. And sure, he's cheating on her now but that's HIS PROBLEM AND NOT MINE ANYMORE. Shocking yes, indecent yes, but NOT MY PROBLEM. I don't discuss with him his relationships and he has NO RIGHT TO DISCUSS MINE.

If you want to have a date, then have one. No need for explaining it away here to us. We are all for you moving ahead if that's what you want to do. But your minimizing it here makes me think you DON'T WANT YOUR X to know that you're doing it or considering dating one of these guys...no secrecy anymore. No need for it. In fact, you don't have to tell anybody if you want a date. I only posted about my dating AFTER i went out on a few. That was something I had to deal with alone.

Enough of this. Please stop this cycle. Is it apparent to you now that this is happening? The cycle? Same thing over and over like a broken record.

I am not dating, just talking to guys at church, and 2 are married for heavens sake. I am not interested in dating. And the one guy I talk to is divorced but nothing is happening out of it. Don't want anything to happen, cause I am still finding my life after being controlled for 25 years.

I did tell her to move out and have told her to move out. We will see what she does. She has lived here, snf of course she does what her father says.

There is one aspect, that I never thought of but someone else did. That she may be making it hard for me, cause that way I will move out and then X can move back in. Something I never thought of, and it won't happen. I will sell this place before that happens. She is pushing buttons, and knowing what hurts and what doesn't.

I don't want her reading here, but she said she can follow my writing.

Anyways, I will like I said earlier, probably not post here much and continue on with my life. It is sad that a child has to take over her fathers steps, and act like him. She is a good person inside and I do love her. But I don't like her actions. Too much control.

Good bye for a while. Be back when things cool down. Have stated tonight to my son, and my son did listen to me, that these are the rules. He said do whatever you have to, and I said this needs to be done. I have asked for over a year from the X, and X never followed my request. So now this is being done, for my protection. Son at least understood, and said do it. Didn't say he liked it, he is much easier to talk with. He listens and will tell me a better way of stating my decisions. He also stated that daughter talks in reaction to my emotions. So will work on that, and hopefully she will decide to have more respect towards me.

Talked to pastor tonight. He said he would call me this week. Talked a little about what is happening but we talked about a more serious issue that we needed to talk about. And he made some suggestions about daughter. I have put a paper on the wall for things that the 25 year old needs to get done everyday. She will initial and date the jobs as done. I will have to approve. At least there won't be a breakdown of job to be getting done daily. And I will work talking with her, and communicating my needs. She can voice her needs as well. She has everything provided for her. A home, food, shower, shampoo, clothes soap, etc. I pay all the utilities, and taxes on the house. All she has to do is answer the business line and work on her business site. Not much to ask of a 25 year old. And I have asked her to make dinner on Thursdays when I am at school. So she and the boys can eat dinner. I would of loved to have these few daily jobs, but it seems too much for her. But this is reality.

Have the income tax thing basically situated. Talked to accountants wife, and she was more than willing to help. So I feel good about that, and I will beable to continue on my path of moving ahead.

I am going to leave up counseling for the X and daughter to find. If they want to counsel, then they can find a counselor. I tried in the beginning of the affair, and it was ruled out. Also, I am too busy with all I ahve to get done with schooling. So if it is important for them, let them work on it and figure it out.

Was suggested to me tonight by my Pastor. Of course, X will have to pay for it, since my finances are low.

Peachy, X has his life and how he lives it is under Gods eyes. I have my life, and I am being honest that I don't date anyone. No one, NO NO NO!!! First of all I don't trust a man, cause all they want is sex. I am not ready for this dating, and would just say no anyway. I will never have sex before marriage again. X wanted it when we were young, and taught me, which was a mistake. This time, I want a man to love me for me, and nothing else. But to love God first. No sex.

I want God to see my marriage with another man under Gods eyes. Therefore, there will never be sex before marriage. I was never a promiscous woman and never will be. That is why X compared me to the other woman, cause she was superior in that department. Of course she had more men, I only had my husband.

Off the track. So Peachy, I am telling the truth, I have not dated, and if you want to believe elsewise, do what you want. But God knows, and I know a man will never get close to me until I am ready and until there is a marriage under Gods eyes. Just the way it is going to be. My hormones are drying up like the rest of my body at a little over 50. If God wants me single the rest of my life, so be it. I know I will be okay with it.

As far as anti-depressants. You have no idea how controlling X is. You have no idea how he manipulated and uses his samantics. He is good at this, and has done it for many years. No more, I am done with emotional and verbal abuse. Done.

Bye Peachy, will not respond for about a week. Need to have things cool down here. I talked to pastor Jim tonight and it was useful. He knows there is a lot of tension, and today I was very angry at X. It seems that I move ahead, getting things done, and X puts a roadblock. Almost like he does it on purpose to hurt me. Like the e-mail was diliberate to hurt me. I know this now about the e-mail and have to learn to let it slide, and I do feel sorry for him that he resorted to this verbal reduction. One day, his return will come, God is watching.

Oh, so I talked to Pastor Jim tonight, is that dating and if I call him from my cell phone is that dating? No! It is talking to someone that listens, and gives me the Lords help. This is not dating, and the guys I talk to just help me on a perspective of a mans point of view. Most of the guys don't know much about my life. Pastor Jim knows a great amount, but not all. And he knows that, cause I didn't feel comfortable telling him about some of the things I have had to deal with, and he understands completely.

Good bye for about a week.

[ March 22, 2004, 09:22 PM: Message edited by: Faith4me ]

Is there a psychiatrist in the house?

Im sorry, but I do believe that this has gotten out of control. We cant help Faith with anything we say. She needs to seek help from a doctor. I dont want to be a person to judge, but there seem to me to be some serious psychiatric issues here.

faith, please get some help for you. This is not about your EX, this is about you. The past month I have not seen any improvement in your recovery. In fact, all I see is you continuing to spiral further down. You really need some help and we cant help you. You have to do it all on your own.

I will be praying that you seek competent help from a doctor.
Dawn

[ March 22, 2004, 09:47 PM: Message edited by: sunrise1 ]

Peachy, all of my comments will be directed to you. I've long since given up trying to get through to F4M:

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by justpeachy:
 I don't state if or if not my x is marriage material. <hr /></blockquote>Originally, it was F4M's X, SNL, who started stating if someone were to be "marriage material." I believe this was the onclusion he finally came to........that he married someone who was NOT marriage material. He was simply rectifying (justifying?) in his mind what he had done in breaking up his family/committing infidelity.
I believe this is in response to his years of long-suffering at her passive/aggressive hands.
Possibly even mental instability as has been stated here. I believe F4M (AND SNL) should have had some extensive counseling (not just M counseling) for their "problems." Didn't happen. Oh, well. We are here seeing a small snippet of the dynamics that was their life together. Quite dysfunctional at best.

But to get back to my main point: That phrase, "marriage material" was HIS phrase originally. I believe the man had a "Giver Snap" after years of being manipulated by the "Poor, put-upon, woe-is-me, feel sorry for me, I M'd such an ogre...." tirades we see here.

 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Whether they're five or fifteen , it's wrong.<hr /></blockquote>
But, Peachy, THEY'RE ALL ADULTS!!! ALL their kids are over 18!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They are all old enough to be making their own minds up. THEY LIVED IT, they KNOW these two people......NO ONE has to "tell" them anything about how the other parent is. They know. They know WAAAAY better than any of us do.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Why the crap even mentioning Ms. Debi's name anymore? It's not new news. <hr /></blockquote>Again, I think it's worth noting that what F4M does is re-hash the past constantly. I'm not (meaning to) bash her. It's just that her behavior reminds me SO MUCH of what I lived as a teen-ager with my parents. When my dad left us (for OW), my mom pretty much flipped out.....
CONSTANT talk about what a whore "she" was, what a R-A-T "he" was. She never did get past it. And she never had a healthy relationship with anyone after that. 6 years later, when she died, she was still bitter and angry at him.......meanwhile he went on to marry ow, and stay m'd to OW 13 years (same # of yrs as my parents, so that was weird.)

My point is some people just never DO get over it. They don't allow themselves to heal. Partly, I think, b/c they need psychological help for many issues, only one of which is the M/div they go through. I think my mom needed major psychiatric help. She had other "issues" for sure, but my dad's betrayal certainly didn't help.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />What is bothering me most now is that....you are being completely passive/agressive about it.

I am believeing 100 percent now that you are all about getting a reaction out of your family and trying to somehow get your way<hr /></blockquote>BINGO!!!
I am of the opinion that this is exactly the dynamic that once worked in their M. She hasn't figured out yet that he broke out of that cycle and never wants to return.

I believe F4M is extremely passive/aggressive and IT WORKED with SNL (and children) for many years. She would have a "tirade" about something or other, pull out her "poor me.....look how upset you've made me....." and they would all back down. Now it doesn't work with family anymore, so she's here trying to get US to give her that sympathy for HIS misdeeds and let her own destructive behavior go.

I also believe there was a time when SNL was somewhat "open" to reconciling and they may have had a chance to repair their M. BUT, she couldn't get past the A, couldn't get past how he had "broken" their cycle of relating. She didn't know how to change how she related to him. She didn't want to Plan A.......she didn't want to acknowledge her part in the breakdown of their M. To this day, I still haven't heard her admit WHAT she has done that led to their M being broken. She never talks about what EN's of his that she didn't meet........

She doesn't like the fact that her actions don't push his buttons in the old way anymore. This is why she keeps telling us about him hurting her shoulder. I believe it WAS an accident. NOT an abusive, aggressive move on his part. SHE was pushing him, attacking him (verbally at least), and he was pushing back...or tried to push past her and get OUT of the house....He was NOT backing down, like in previous times. This angered her. Now she has to live with the pain, the therapy, the disability of it, so she continues to try to play on his sympathy for the action he did. He doesn't fall for it. So she keeps coming back and "reminding" us how terrible and abusive he was, and how she lives with the constant pain of it all, because he's so abusive, blah, blah, blah.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />I am asking you why now...why any of this? Do you think if they read about your crying, suffering, your thoughts regarding religion that it will spur them to change by virtue of reading your posts?

Stop the controlling cycle. You are going too far. <hr /></blockquote>I believe it worked before. We'll just keep it up till it works again!

<blockquote>quote:<hr />If you want to have a date, then have one. No need for explaining it away here to us. We are all for you moving ahead if that's what you want to do. But your minimizing it here makes me think you DON'T WANT YOUR X to know that you're doing it or considering dating one of these guys... <hr /></blockquote>I can't figure this out at all, either. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Peachy, I think you hit the nail dead on the head! Thanks for writing what I have been thinking for over 2 years now.

I really don't think anyone here is qualified to help F4M get past these issues. They are too deep seated.

I do hope, for HER sake, that she recognizes this at some point and gets help, though. I'm sure there really IS a lovely, kind lady underneath all that baggage...........

Thank you Lupolady!!!! Good gravy, this same song's been sung for three years now and a lot of us who watched the whole Thinker/SNL fiasco saw exactly what you see.

No one should have any doubt as to why this marriage failed and it sure had little to do with the affair.

I am concerned faith about your meds you're taking and if you are still on antidepressant. You didn't mention it.

That is utmost importance here. Getting you whole. And getting past this.

And no, dating does not mean SEX. Does my dating mean I'm shagging about four different guys? Absolutely not. It means opening up my life for meeting different friends.

You're an adult. No need to call the pastor to ask him what constitutes a date. But if you are leaning too much emotionally on a married man who's a friend, then I'd back off as that's off bounds and you'd agree.

Quit worrying about the whole ball of wax. Take everything 1 step at a time. First thing is to heal yourself. That would mean going to counselor/psych or getting your doc and counselor together to determine which med is right and appropriate counseling approach now. The time is at hand for you to heal. Even when an unbeliever leaves, God commands us to live in peace. I take it to mean that God wants me to do what I have to do to heal myself. I am even helping a woman in my women's bible study group just about your age going thru a devastating divorce right now...her stbxh has 2 OW. Two kids teenagers too.

She got hooked up last week with a great psychologist I knew here. He's got her on the med I told you about and she started feeling relief about five days later and has been able to finally think "less thoughts" and less "scattered thinking". It's helped her focus on the here and now.

Do I get mad and think my x's OW/W is a whore? Sure I do. But I would rather pull my teeth out one by one than let my x ever hear me say it or tell it to my son. People learn by seeing the actions of others. That's the watermark of life. It's not what you SAY to somebody or write, it's what you DO that has the impact.

Back up, don't get mad. See that it's 3 years later. Time is marching on. It's not stopping for anybody and we aren't promised one more second. It's time to live again. Start over. You can be made new and God would like to be a part of it. But you've got to do a bit of work in the meantime. That means getting yourself together and you will find that you're so much more as a woman than you could ever be. I had to have the humility to go to a counselor and tell them I'd gone through abuse and adultery and a divorce and that I needed that kind of help. Then I made darn sure I got on the best, fastest acting antidepressant and began wading thru this stinking pile of crud that used to be my life.

Finances aren't straight yet. Still stuff to work through for sure, but I am moving closer to good, even great a little more each day. Dating hasn't scared me...it's made me realize my x was the one wacked. Proved him wrong in the end. But I'd like to see you prove that you're more than you think you are TO YOURSELF.

You can do it. But 3 years post affair/breakdown of m is too long to be having this great of a depression and even the recurrecnt themes of suicide now. That is a signal to change what you're doing..Remember Einstein's quote? Definition of insanity is doing the SAME THING OVER AND OVER AND EXPECTING THE OUTCOME TO BE DIFFERENT. That's why you need to chang the direction of your life now. And it'snot dependent on finances or anything. This first step begins with you going and finding the right help and new med and new psych/counselor . Remember, if your psych help is not either a psychiatrist or a psychologist, they will not be able to write meds..So if it's just a counselor you're seeing, they will need to work in conjunction with your physician.

And I am going to say this...worst and I mean ABSOLUTELY WORST COUNSELING I EVER GOT was from a "christian counselor". She was horrible and even believed the x the one time he came in and lied to her point blank. Didn't offer me any real motive or therapy. Just had me read stuff and pray more. And I did that. But nothing changed. When I went to a MS degreed counselor next, she did some therapy to help me change dynamics in my life and boy did things move differently and positively. I also got on the lexapro for a very short time. Are yo seeing the church pastor or counselor? Because they are not mental health experts. Sure they have some experience, but to get therapy and intensive therapy, you need to go to an expert in the field. Not saying this to down christian counselors, it's just that for a heart attack would you to go a chiropractor? I don't think so. You'd go see a cardiologist especially trained for your illness.

I just have to say that I have been reading this post from the start and although I haven't responded earlier I have to agree with what has been said many times over.

This is not normal behavior three years after the fact. There are deep seeded feelings of anger and resentment. There is also an evident feeling of abandonment combined with an assumption of being the helpless victim. You say you would never want your XH back and how much better your life is, etc., etc., but then bash him repeatedly. If he is as bad as you say and you truly feel your life is better you wouldn't have the time to worry about what he is doing because you'd be too busy living and being happy. You seem to be obsessed with the whole situation. Although you are hurting a lot of people and also estranging yourself from them, the true person you are hurting is yourself because you are going to end up bitter and alone. You seem totally codependent, swept up in emotions and actions that are out of control. You are making threats of boundaries, but never carrying them out. Your life is out of control so therefore you are on a mission to control everyone around you. If you haven't read anything by Melody Beattie, I suggest you do it now.

I agree with the med. situation as well. Get it checked out immediately. I have never taken them myself, but know enough about them to know that they are not working. You bounce from thoughts of suicide one day to being much better the next. I don't think so. You need to heal yourself. You need to let this go before it destroys you.

Take care of yourself so you can discover what life truly has to offer you. It is time to stop playing the victim and take control of your own destiny because from the looks of it, the only one hurting you is you.

Take care and God bless!
K

I empathize with you because I think that I have had a very similar outlook and consequences. The intentions are the best -- to sacrifice in order to earn love -- but when love is not given, anger and resentment are the result. It's a very twisted view that Christ sacrificed for us so we need to sacrifice for others.

Christ gave us two commandments, and the second is "Love your neighbor as yourself." I always thought that "as yourself" was out of place. That's because my whole emphasis was on sacrifice, giving to others, and the A just blew me away. I deserved my H because I sacrificed so he could go golfing, go running, etc. I gave him the downtime he desired, but I was a willing victim.

What you need to see, above all, is that it was no coincidence -- just a bad judgment in choice of mate -- that led to your being where you are today. You need to take care of you.

Hi Faith4Me! I'll respond in **and CAPS** because I don't know how to do all those fancy little quote/re-quotes etc. hehee Personally, I see YOU as exactly where I was almost 6 years ago when I was in Divorce Country.. <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Faith4me:
.. Yes, there are still triggers, and one of the things that XH still doesn't do, is call me to see if it is okay to come over here. **YOU SHOULD TELL HIM IT IS !!NOT!! OK FOR HIM TO COME OVER TO YOUR PLACE. HE LOST THAT PRIVILEGE WHEN HE CHEATED ON YOU AND DIVORCED YOU** He did it last night, and that will stop, he has been warned. **WHAT PART OF 'NO' DOESN'T HE UNDERSTAND? PERHAPS A RESTRAINING ORDER MIGHT CLARIFY IT FOR HIM** Part of his pattern is he does what he wants without any consideration to others. **BUTT THEN THE CONSEQUENCES OF HIS ACTIONS COMES BACK AND BITES HIM IN THE A$S** There is no need for him to be here ever. **EXACTLY - NO NEED OR REASON WHATSOEVER** All the kids drive, and can go to his little bedroom at his mothers house. **THAT'S RIGHT, LET HIM RUN TO HIS MOMMY JUST LIKE A CHILD WOULD**
Just want to stay out of his life. His demands are still present, and his obnoxious behavior is still present. **THEY SHOULDN'T BE. WHATEVER DEMANDS OR WANTS HE HAS WERE TOTALLY FORFEITED WHEN HE CHEATED ON YOU AND LEFT YOU** If I don't do as he asks, he yells and still calls me occasionally a FB, just 1 1/2 weeks ago. **KNOW WHAT WORKED FOR ME WHEN MY EX-WIFE WOULD DO THAT TO ME. IT'S CALLED 'CLICK!' THE PHONE THE VERY SECOND THE FIRST CUSS WORD AND/OR YELLING AND/OR RAISED VOICE, AND/OR DEMAND, ETC. WOULD COME OUT OF HER MOUTH. NO WARNING, JUST "CLICK" AND THEN I LEFT THE PHONE OFF THE HOOK FOR 1 HOUR. WORKED EVERY TIME. SHE QUIT CALLING IN JUST A FEW DAYS! TRY IT, YOU'LL BE AMAZED AT HOW WELL IT WORKS** Cause I wouldn't do as he said, I don't have to anymore. **DARN TOOTIN' YOU DON'T HAVE TO** But he is still trying to control me, **THAT'S TOUGH, HE LOST THAT RIGHT TO EVEN REQUEST ANYTHING OF YOU WHEN HE LEFT YOU, MUCH LESS DEMAND ANYTHING AT ALL** and he hates the boundaries I have set. **THAT'S TOUGH TOO, YOU ARE A PERSON WITH RIGHTS AND BOUNDARIES AND HE HAS NO RIGHT TO STEP ALL OVER YOURS** See, he preached to me and to my oldest daughter that one doesn't need credit. **WHAT A LIAR - WE ALL NEED CREDIT** But he has his mommys credit card to use, **WAIT A MINUTE - I THOUGHT HE SAID HE DIDN'T NEED CREDIT. WHAT'S HE DOING USING SOMEONE ELSE'S CARD. CAN YOU SAY HYPOCRISY** and now my oldest daughter has grandmas credit card to use.
But now he has to work on the time frame of the divorce decree now, since I have the judge to back me up now. **YOU GO, GIRL**

XH is not marriage material, and until he changes his behavior and attitude, he will be a lonely old overweight bald man. **YEP. GONNA SUCK TO BE HIM PRETTY SOON NOW. CHICKS DON'T DIG FAT OLD BALD MEN HEHEHEEE**

Things are changing for the better for me. **THAT'S GREAT! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ** I enjoy reading, doing my schoolwork, not having someone criticize me. **YOU STAND UP FOR YOURSELF AND DON'T HAVE TO LISTEN TO ANY OF HIS CRAPOLA** I enjoy my kids, and we are having saturday to go see The Passion. And a cheap dinner. Told the kids, it is going to be tough, and I can't be like disneyland dad and buy airplane tickets, and movies and dinner all the time. They at least know that I care about them, and tell them that I love them everyday. **THAT'S GREAT. YOU HAVE YOUR CHILDREN AND AT LEAST HE HASN'T BRAINWASHED THEM AGAINST YOU LIKE MY VINDICTIVE EX DID MINE. CONSIDER YOURSELF FORTUNATE HERE** That is what counts, and I said whatever happens happens. I am moving on with my life, and with the Lord.

I really don't ask X what he is doing anymore, cause it doesn't concern me. **EXACTLY, IT'S LIKE.. WHO GIVES A RAT'S A$$ WHAT HE DOES?** He just mentioned this last night that he if flying out to ARizona, for what reason I don't know. **AND YOU COULD SAY, "WELL WHOOP-DE-DOO. WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO DO, JUMP UP AND DOWN AND SHOUT ABOUT IT?" He doesn't say other things to me, but it could of been a dig to get me, or it could of been just a thoughtful note. Who knows at this point. **NEXT TIME HE CALLS, JUST TELL HIM "DON'T CALL HERE ANYMORE. I DON'T CARE ANYTHING ABOUT WHAT YOU DO AS YOU'RE A BIG BOY NOW AND YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN SO LEAVE ME ALONE. THANK YOU!" THEN YOU HANG UP ON HIM. HE'LL GET THE MESSAGE SOON ENOUGH. And I do believe it would be beneficial for him to get out on his own for a change. **BEING ON HIS OWN MEANS HE CUTS ALL THE STRINGS, AND THAT MEANS YOU HAVE NO RESPONSIBILITY TO HIM TO LISTEN TO HIM, TO DO ONE SINGLE THING FOR HIM, AND SINCE HE CHOSE THIS BED, THEN HE NEEDS TO SLEEP IN IT AND THAT IS A NATURAL CONSEQUENCE OF THE CHOICE HE MADE. YOU OWE HIM NOT A FRIGGING THING!** Just my beliefs, and that way he won't be around here anymore. Makes breaking away much easier.

No more updates on X, for he is history, and is getting out of my mind. Takes time, after 25 years of marriage, that was controlled by him. Divorce was June of 2003. It takes time, but am doing much better than last fall. <hr /></blockquote>Faith4Me, I do pray and hope you DO move on - I know how you feel. My X was a controlling and very spiteful manipulative woman, and it took me some time to get over her. Butt, trust me, you WILL move on, and doing the above things worked for me quite well. Try them, you'll LOVE the results! Do it for YOU.
Today is the first day of the rest of your life (without him in it to RUIN it for you) Go for it!
Just A Suggestion.
Sincerely, TDL (Harold)

Ok, I have to intervene here. Before any of you post anything further to Faith4me, please read the following:

Post Part 1 of 3
Post Part 2 of 3
Post Part 3 of 3

Then, if you would like to you can ask me further questions or come to your own conclusions.

Now on to Sauron’s post (btw LOTR fan as well!). I will address some of your comments, though these will probably only make sense if you read the above links. Those links explain who I am and the other side of the story.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Just want to stay out of his life. His demands are still present, and his obnoxious behavior is still present. **THEY SHOULDN'T BE. WHATEVER DEMANDS OR WANTS HE HAS WERE TOTALLY FORFEITED WHEN HE CHEATED ON YOU AND LEFT YOU** <hr /></blockquote>Ok, this would all be fine and dandy, except she doesn’t stay out of his life. She doesn’t want to, she wants to know what he is doing and who he is with. I know, because she comes and complains to me about the stuff he is doing, including stuff that has nothing to do with her. As, I told her this weekend, forget about it, move on with your life. But, she won’t.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> I enjoy my kids, and we are having saturday to go see The Passion. And a cheap dinner. Told the kids, it is going to be tough, and I can't be like disneyland dad and buy airplane tickets, and movies and dinner all the time. They at least know that I care about them, and tell them that I love them everyday. **THAT'S GREAT. YOU HAVE YOUR CHILDREN AND AT LEAST HE HASN'T BRAINWASHED THEM AGAINST YOU LIKE MY VINDICTIVE EX DID MINE. CONSIDER YOURSELF FORTUNATE HERE** <hr /></blockquote>She doesn’t need to tell us kids it is tough, we don’t expect her to do anything. It is nice that she took us to the movies and dinner, however we would be happier to see her let go of the anger she has built up inside over time, well at least my entire life, which is 25 years. I have to assume it existed before that. And, yes we do know she cares for us. However, her next few words “tell them that I love them everyday” couldn’t be further from the truth. This is what I mean about her fabricating things. The last time she told me she loves me was when I was in Cali, that was about a month ago. She only says she loves me when either I am leaving for out of town, or on the phone when I am out of town. And, this is when we are getting along. Instead everyday she speaks in anger to her children. Not necessarily angry at her children, but taking out her anger, of either my dad or her life, on her children.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> I really don't ask X what he is doing anymore, cause it doesn't concern me. **EXACTLY, IT'S LIKE.. WHO GIVES A RAT'S A$$ WHAT HE DOES?** He just mentioned this last night that he if flying out to ARizona, for what reason I don't know. **AND YOU COULD SAY, "WELL WHOOP-DE-DOO. WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO DO, JUMP UP AND DOWN AND SHOUT ABOUT IT?" He doesn't say other things to me, but it could of been a dig to get me, or it could of been just a thoughtful note. Who knows at this point. **NEXT TIME HE CALLS, JUST TELL HIM "DON'T CALL HERE ANYMORE. I DON'T CARE ANYTHING ABOUT WHAT YOU DO AS YOU'RE A BIG BOY NOW AND YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN SO LEAVE ME ALONE. THANK YOU!" THEN YOU HANG UP ON HIM. HE'LL GET THE MESSAGE SOON ENOUGH. <hr /></blockquote>The reason he told her about going to Arizona is because if he didn’t, he never would have heard the end of it. She would have chewed him out for hours for not having respect to tell her he was leaving town. In fact, when he told me he was leaving, my first thought was when are you telling mom? I know, he knows, my siblings know, my grandmas knows that if he didn’t tell her, my mom would not leave him be. And, even then she still didn’t leave him be, she called him numerous times each day he was in Arizona. So, so much for her wanting to forget about him???

Again, I just want to clear up discrepancies here so you can better advise my mom.

A-Diff_view--

So tell your mom--it's not her business--what your dad does--and he can do the same thing--encourage him that way too--

Well we have had the war of the roses, now we have family feud... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

A_diff_view:
Your mother made her own choices. She was not forced to stay in a bad M. I grew up with a supposedly happily married mother and father but, with the explosion in our own marriage, I see now that my mother is very disrespectful of my father and more or less gets her own way on everything -- and she humiliates him if he disagrees with her. Guess what I did when I went into our marriage? It took five years for my H to say enough and he did it by cracking my skull. I then entered the world of his parents' marriage, with his mother completely ignored by his father. And I blew up, not after a broken arm but after I exposed an affair.

Please realize that you have some hidden assumptions about how marriage is supposed to be. If you are aware of it, you may be able to change it. But don't get married until you find someone who believes in win-win approaches to problems. Your mother, like me, believed in sacrifice and tried her best -- from what I gather, I don't know of course -- to be the best wife and mother she could, and she is overwhelmed with anger that she should end up as she has. Your father seems to have an element of cruelty in him that he would have much dealing with her now. The marriage failed. There is no reason for them to continue communicating.

Just my thoughts.... I have a H willing to work on the M, so I'm in a different spot from your mother, but two years ago I was where she is now and it was dreadful. I used to wake up asking God to have me killed -- maybe a car accident? I didn't want to live. And yet my Christian faith kept me alive.

Please love your mother. She needs it.