Just wanted to make something clear since we seem to have several new folks who are becoming quite freaked at the angry response of their WS when they are exposed, confronted, etc. They are under the illusion that an angry response = failure. It is anything BUT. It is an expectation.

The WS will not give you a hug and a kiss for exposing them. You ain't going to get a medal. Your marriage will not be the A&E Chick Flick movie of the week the night after exposure. Your marriage will not be ready for prime time the day after you confront the OM. Your H will will not send you roses for exposing his affair. Your reward comes later when the affair is killed and recovery is made possible by your efforts.

Instead, expect fury, anger, poison, threats, punishment. Expect classic statements like:

"Now our marriage is really over. I was going to work on our marriage, but now I'm not."

"You are trying to control me."

"yada, yada, yada........"

WE HAVE HEARD IT ALL!!

It is a RUSE designed to frighten you into stopping your affair busting activities. When you threaten to take the crack pipe away from the crack addict, do you expect him to be happy and give you a reward? Do you think cockroaches like it when you come in and turn on the lights? Of course they don't. It is the same premise here.

See, this is the immediate response when you cause trouble in paradise. When you do these things, you are interfering with a powerful fantasy. They do not welcome these things.

All of the above approaches are part and parcel of a long term strategy designed to bust up an affair. Get that? Long term strategy. It is not a short term strategy designed to earn you the love and affection of your fogged out WS the next day.

If you think it is, you are going to be sorely disappointed. [as many on here are right now]

The key is to brace yourself for the anticipated fury and just understand that it is part of recovery process in ending an affair. Don't let their fury and anger scare you or divert you from your mission. It will all blow over.

You should be scared, instead, of the affair not ending. And if you don't do tough things like expose, confront, etc, then you really should be scared because the affair is likely to destroy your marriage. So when you feel scared, ask yourself what you fear more: some temporary anger or the loss of your marriage? It's your choice.

Yeah what Mel said.

Always remember IT'S A GREAT DAY TO BE ALIVE!!!!!!!

appropriate babble back to the Ws...

risky perhaps....

but dear I am confused I thought that since you two made eachother so happy you would want to share your happiness with others....

but dear I thought that is what you wanted..it IS what you have said.

I had no idea you didn't want people to know about your new love.....

I thought you would want your family to be happy for you

I thought thats exactly what you wanted...

but dear I have no plans in my life with having a third person involved in my marriage.....

etc...

good one mel....

ark

Thank you Melody for once again pointing out the obvious to me. (or as a friend of mine likes to say, "giving me a boot to the head")

Stop, I think we need to do a better job of pointing out the likely reaction to newcomers. They are in intense emotional distress and sometimes don't realize the anticipated reaction and are then caught by surprise. We just assume they will know the WS will be furious, but often they don't because its hard to think clearly when you are under assault!

Excellent primer, Mel. I attached a link to this on MicheleG's thread...

~ Snow

Thanks, Snow. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Mel-

You're a wise chick <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I wasn't remotely scared when I exposed. I had been gathering evidence for so long, it was liberating to finally have the damning piece of evidence, I was told that I was a loon for so long by my FWH that I was beginning to believe him, and when I got my evidence it was like "AH HA!!!!!!!!!I'm not crazy!!!", and YES my FWH was FURIOUS...but I expected that, and it was actually kinda fun to be getting his phone calls that day, when he's yelling and screaming at me, and I was just answering calmly...he couldn't fight with me, because I wouldn't fight, nor would I respond to his name calling....it made him nuts! He went into hyper paranoid mode, raced home from work in the middle of the day to check his phones for recording devices...LOL!! He apparently thought I had some kind of .007 *bug* in his phones, rather than a HUGE tape recorder hooked into an empty phone jack. (I'd removed it before I spilled the beans--duh...lol)

-Caren

Caren, you are a hoot! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Ml,

I think some of the confusion regarding exposure is knowing "when" to expose.

In SAA it says a 6 month time limit for plan a is about average for most couples. He goes on to say that during those six months, avoid doing anything that would upset the WS.

In reading about Jon & Sue's case, the 6 month time limit for plan A was never completed because Sue made the decision to leave Jon. At that point Jon continued with his plan, and went to plan B. It wasn't clear in the book when or if Jon exposed the affair.

I also didn't see anything in Basic Concepts about the timing of exposure.

Anyone else know from either reading Harley books, or from discussing with one of the Harley's?

CSue, I don't think timing is the issue, but rather, one of expectations. Many don't expect the angry response they get. However, exposure is part of Plan A. Harley has never counseled avoiding exposure in Plan A because the purpose of Plan A is to bust up the affair. As Harley once told one of our members, do everything short of taking out a billboard.

I also noticed that exposure wasn't mentioned in SAA.

My problem is that WH didn't explode at me when I exposed to OW's parents. He just stopped talking to me. I have no idea how successful that particular piece of exposure was (I'm not going to ask him about it!)

I'm hoping for more fireworks when exposure at work kicks in (hopefully early next week). Is it a bad sign, or not 'normal' if a WS doesn't explode at you - if they just seem sort of sad and disappointed and don't speak to you? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Alph.

Alphin, they all react differently so there is no way to tell. However, you can probably be assured that you are causing huge problems in the affair, and that is the goal.

It actually becomes a little addictive - exposure I mean.

I keep thinking: what else can I do to explode that affair?

Have to stop myself from just being vindictive! But how I'd LOVE to stand outside the gates of WH's and OW's school and hand out 'exposure' leaflets to kids and parents... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Calm now, calm...

Alph.

Down, girl! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Oh absolutely Melody! I for one was not prepared for the level of hostility I received from my WH. Oh, I knew he wouldn't be happy, but I didn't expect what I got.

Reading about what to expect would have been a good way to prepare for it.

And a few more words of comfort and support---

The difference between an active WS and a REDCOVERED WS is amazing. But it does take some time.

It honestly is as though they were taken over by alien forces!!

My H now,,years after Dday, is so sad and remorseful about his actions and comments during that time. He also finds it almost impossible that he could have ever been that cold and callous.

There IS hope!!

Uttlery agree with Melodylane and Nerlycrazy.

Squid was vicious in response but exposure killed her affair.

She was hateful to me for ages, but now she is warm in my bed waiting for me to hold her tight when I retire.

Go figure.... ;o)

Thanks, Mel, Nerly, b0b.

You guys are the best. We really need you.

I have the acid suit in the car. Just waiting for the right time.

Mel -

Don't forget to tell people to watch out for the OP. Remember Filly? After she exposed the affair, OW attacked her with a pool stick in the K-Mart parking lot. Her WH ended it immediately with OW, but poor Filly ended up in the hospital with broken face bones, and jaw.

So after exposure, be very cautious, just in case your WS has a crazy one on the line.

Just wanted to reply to Alphin on the addictiveness of exposing.....I'm going to have to agree with you there, I had to stop myself from making up flyers and putting them in all the OW's neighbor's mailboxes warning the wives they better watch their husbands....LOL (I didn't do it, but I wanted to.)

I know this thread is about the expected response, but I can't stress the importance of doing exposure in ONE FELL SWOOP.......hit everyone you're gonna expose to in the same day if possible. The element of surprise is ESSENTIAL.

After my crucial piece of evidence, my FWH was the first person I called, but I DID NOT tell him the rest of the plan, just wanted him to stop lying to me, and prove to him that all those months of telling me I was crazy were all LIES.

Then I proceeded to call:

The businesses adjacent to his store (They're close knit around there and the OW's store is right in the little chain of stores, so it was the equivalent of exposing at his work)

His co-worker's wife, who of course already knew, via her husband, and got a little defensive, telling me "I really think that's HIS business." I said "I disagree, since he is my husband. But I'm not asking you to take sides, I merely wanted you to know"

His Mother.

His best friend and his wife.

Another close friend of ours.

The Great Aunt that has custody of his son. I told her the situation, and that I could not guarantee what went on at his house, as I did not live there. She said "I don't think that would be a very good influence, thank you for telling me". (My FWH would NEVER have brought OW around OUR daughter, but I had the feeling that he wouldn't have any qualms about introducing her to his son).

Oh, and I called the OW, she of course didn't answer my call, but I left this message on her voice mail "I know what's going on now OW, that you lied to me, that you are having an affair with my husband, and I want you to know that he has NEVER stopped sleeping with me this ENTIRE time, if you'd like to discuss this, my number is XXX-XXX-XXXX."......she never called LOL

So all day long exposure day, people kept coming up to him (and probably her) asking him what was going on......which agitated him BIG TIME.

It didn't END the affair, but it put another nail in it's coffin.

My relationship isn't sunshine and roses now, but it IS affair free.....and that's a start.

-Caren

My own preference for exposure is much sooner, rather than much later. If I had it to do again, I know precisely the day and time that would have had the greatest effect. Sadly, I didn't actually understand that it was an affair and find MB until six months later. By then, well, in most ways it was too late for my marriage.

In any case, I think the best thing people can do is take a deep breath, get themselves calm, and then pick up the phone and start calling. The day after D-Day is a good day for it.

Though I usually like Ark's reverse babble, I might try a direct, quiet, and simple statement when questioned about exposure. "I am looking for people who will help save our marriage. I need the support."

You could even leave out the second sentence.

I also prefer a more targeted approach like CarenMc describes. Telling EVERYONE is not as good as asking (not telling) for help from the people who have the most influence over the WP. All it takes is, "I'm so upset. WP is having an affair with OP, and I just found out about it. I love WP. Is there anything you can do to help?"

Almost all will listen with a sympathetic ear. Many will not be able to help. Some will. And it's true -- when you're a BP, you need as much help and support as you can get.

bumping for HurtsAlot

Mel, great post! Luckily I didn't have to expose, but if H hadn't dumped the "B" I would have been driving in my car with a meagaphone blasting out the window. When I found out about the EA part of the A I told H I was going to call OW, who was his office manager. He begged me not to because it wouldn't be "considerate". He asked if he could call her 1st to prepare her for my call. LOL! Now that is a fogged up H. "Sure honey! Please call OW so she is prepared from the call from your W. I wouldn't want to upset her!" As soon as he left the house my little fingers were speed dialing. Oh, the memories!

I just wanted to say that it really does help to look at your WS as an alien. I would look at H's dead eyes and it was kind of scary. I can remember writing on MB when he would walk in the room and refer to him as "the alien".

Arc, during the god-awful withdrawal stage, when I was fed up with the pining, I several times would say things like, "If your love with OW is so beautiful, then go follow your bliss! You should want others to know about how wonderful it is."

Just wanted to add that I couldn't stand Sue in SAA. I wanted Jon to dump her so badly. Hang tough! If my H who had OW on a pedestal, 17 months later looks at OW as a conniving "B", there is hope! CV

Great post Melody!

I don't recall mention of exposure in SAA either and didn't realize it was considered a valuable MB tool until after discovering this forum. I exposed unknowingly to trusted friends and family members because I was in very bad shape and in desperate need of a strong support group. Had I known its power as a tool, I would have used in more effectively, i.e. one big bang.

I have one or two last exposure cards up my sleeve, but SH has told me to hold off until he has spoken with my WH --- which happened last night. Tomorrow I have my own consultation with SH and this will be one of the things I expect to get his advice on.

Alph,
My husband didn't react overtly to exposure either. He is good at repressing his emotions, which is probably one of the reasons we find ourselves in this situation in the first place. He did, though, react. It was embarassing and made him feel ashamed, not necessarily for what he was/is doing, but that people knew what he was doing. And eventually he said all the standard textbook lines.

Adding to arkie's suggestion of things to say:

Dear, I just don't understand why you are so upset. You told me that you are going to do whatever you want, when ever you want with your best friend's wife. If you truly think this is an appropriate thing to do, I don't see why you are upset that people know about it.

Dear, if your adultry is really is as you say just between the the two of us, why was it kept a secret from me for so long? Why did your customers, colleagues, our neighbors, and our children know about it before me?

So being friendly with your employees is just part of your management style? Do you sleep with all of your employees or just the females?

Yes dear, I know that exposing your affair is counterproductive. That is the whole idea. Affairs thrive on secrecy and lies. Marriage thrives on openess and honesty.

MEL,

I forgot to get my compliments out to you the first time this post came around. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

It is a good service your doing for those stuck or frozen with "indecision".
The whole "what if" syndrome.

I sincerely Hope that your MESSAGE reaches those folks who really NEED to "get it" for themselves. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Keep it up.

Thanks CV55, LT, and TopRope!

I am bumping again today because we have a few who are vying for that extra special exposure/confrontation medal today and I don't want them to be disappointed when they don't get it! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

**snort** and I know you would do that, too! You are awesome! lol <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Thanks Mel for posting this. I may be one of those who need to read it, maybe should have read it yesterday before calling OW parents. But what is done, is done.

I must have done SOME damage to this affair. Her parents are the only ones I can think of who I can contact.

It wouldn't be right to contact the school where she teaches at would it ??? I mean, there are no children involved at my house. But I know that she has one or two. Not to mention a whole classroom !!! Too much though - right ? Without solid proof, this would probably not be advisable. Hopefully I did enough damage calling her folks.

Thanks again for all the useful information. Y'all are the best.


Carnation

I guess I am threadjacking AND plagerizing all on the same post....
call the Texas Rangers if you must....

I just read on of Orchids responses and thought how nicely it dovetailed on to this thread about exposure...

Orchid gave dead spot on responses that address the issue of post exposure in which the WS will play the

You 'infringed on my privacy" card..

oh the irrationality...
oh the irony
oh the hyprocrisy

Orchid's advice about addressing a WS lamenting and teeth gashing about privacy goes like this...


The WS is looking for a fight. Be slick as oil and don't give her any. Learn t/d the reverse babble and give her back her acidlike questions.

ex:

WS: I'm telling.

BS: Tell what?

WS: About you.

BS: Ok. The good and bad or just the bad?

WS: Just the bad.

BS: Ok. Who are you telling?

WS: Everyone. Your parents, mine, your work, etc.....

BS: Ok. I'll let them know you will be contacting them to give them this info.

WS: No. Don't do that.

BS: Oh but I must. Go ahead. I have to other things to do now.

This is not a threat. You contact all those she 'bluffed' you about. Remember don't treat it as a bluff. Just act. NO more warning. Here's another example:

WS: U have been getting into my e-mail. You are invading my privacy.

BS: What do you have that is soo private from your own H?

WS: Doesn't matter, you invaded my privacy.

BS: Hm..... welll thanks for letting me know you have something to hide.

WS: What does that mean?

BS: It means you have something to hide. I have things t/d now. Please leave me alone.

WS: What are you going t/d?

BS: Stuff. You don't want to invade my privacy right or do you have double standards also?

WS: I don't have double standards. Do what you like. I don't care.

BS: Ok.

At this point, you go be busy. Even if it is a walk around the block..... take your cell phone and let her know you did .

This is reverse babble. Taking the WS' stupid remarks and giving them back their own babble. It isn't easy and you may need to practice in front of a mirror.

Why do this? To confuse the WS. When she is acting like your W, treat her well, cordial at minimum. When she is acting like the WS, treat her fair but do not compromise nor accept her babble.

Here's a 3rd example:

WS: You have put some sort of spyware on the computer. How dare you invade my privacy.

BS: Yes I did put spyware. Why are you giving me reason to do so?

WS: uh... I am uhh..... not giving you reason.

BS: You are having an A. You already have compromised my trust in you. I put on that program to see what other hurtful schemes you are planning t/d to our family. Not sure if your OM is also hacking into our computer. He seems t/b hacking into our M and you are letting him.

Then walk away. Leave her in a dazed and wondering state. If she so much as stutters, you know you have her confused. The more angry she gets the less she is in control. Use that to your advatage but also protect yourself and your family. This includes financial protection.

L.

perfect responses...

without powerstruggling...
without blame
factual....
short
to the point....

they do belong on this post....

ARK

That was an excellent post for a yankee. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

that's only cause a furrener wrote it...
she's from that furren country..

HAWAII!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ALOHA
ARK

\

Italy, Hawaii, New York, it's all the same to us! Anything north of the RED RIVER is foreign, silly girl! Like Bubba told me onct, if you are from north of the Red River, you might as well be EYE-ITALIAN! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

When I exposed it was such a relief that I WAS NOT CRAZY! When I finally had the proof I no longer doubted my own judgements. I could trust myself.

Exposing to the community gave me such support. I live in a small town so news spreads like wildfire. One elderly lady who is very fond of my H volunteered to stay with my kids at 2 AM if I needed to go hunt him down.LOL. Lots of offers for free childcare now that I had to work full time. What a relief to know. This woman I know but not really well came up and hugged me in the middle of the pharmacy one day and said "I heard, I want you to know you don't deserve any of this, HE is a fool!" then she just walked away. The biggest benefit of this is that OW (who had moved out of town, but her mother still lives here) was constantly here at every event, she has not shown her face in this town since the exposure back in March. She complained to WH everyone here thinks she is a "B"

The other thing when I exposed people were not all that surprised. I got comments like "I thought they were a little too close for comfort." They lost alot of unknowing alibi's. Everyone was keeping an eye out.

WH made a comment "Its hard to show my face around town without people looking at me funny." I said "I know they've been looking at me that way since you became friends with OW."

bumping for those who are vying for an exposure reward. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Good call Mel.

Most WS writhe and snap like snakes in a rat trap after exposure.

So important for the BS to prepare for this likely outcome.

I am one of those intimidated by exposure. It seems(ed) like such a dangerous thing to incite that rage in someone I was desperately trying to keep in the house. I have never seen my H so enraged, he actually said I had no right to meddle in his affairs! He threatened to abandon me and the children, to just run away...

The morning after D-Day, he went and told his boss. I thought that was a good sign, that he was not going to try to sweep it under the rug. But he admitted a week later, that he honestly tried to figure out a way to spin it to his boss so that he wasn't the bad guy.

I screwed up exposure by waiting, now it will only look like retaliation. But, I still have avenues and now I can spin in saying that once he asked if OW would be able to attend family functions, well what difference does it make if people know now or over Christmas dinner?

I know I screwed up at first, I just didn't have th MB info or the OW info that I needed. But, I am done helping him normalize the A. I called his "other mother" and let her know. It was sad to hear her reaction-utter shock and disbelief. But he has estrange himself from everyone that will not support him in his selfish endeavor.

The OWH and the business owner should know tomorrow, and I will be out of town for the weekend. I wish I had had the balls and the info for this from the get go. But his business [censored](es) really covered up for him well, that made it much more difficult.

If I had to advise someone at this point, I would make sure that they knew that rage was the most common reaction, not just a slim possibility. This whole alien thing really did take me by surprise-I hate that I was naive.

Jean, it doesn't matter when or how you expose his affair, they will ALWAYS be furious and they will always view it as retaliation. That is OK. It does not undermine the effectiveness of the exposure.[the longer you wait, the less effective, though] Exposure STILL WORKS regardless of the WS' reaction. You are simply throwing away the greatest weapon you have against the affair by not exposing. You are ENABLING the affair.

What if you missed the "window of opportunity" and now I believe there has been NC for 2 months?

But... the last contact was an email from him breaking it off with my WW... so she may still be pining?

Also... lately, starting to wonder if there is recent contact... she took her rings off again this week and a couple of blocked sender calls on the phone and her cell phone. She is still in the house and things seem to be still progressing slowly.

And... there has been contact with OMW... she is inviting my WW to a bible study at her house. My W sent an email to her rejecting the offer with all kinds of niceties... but it makes me sick to hear my W talk sweetly to this woman who doesn't know.

Should I stay quiet and wait for proof of further contact and then expose? Or just let them know that it happened a couple of months ago and send the progress backwards?

I know... I'm one of those who still need to "get it". But our MC has counselled that it will hurt our M if I did it now. Plus both my W and I have read another book on A's which counselled no exposure as the BS needs to be "protecting" the WW. I understand the MB principles and the reasons for exposing... but after she has read that, it will be the biggest LB I could ever imagine... that is if she really is keeping NC.

Shaden

Jean, we were ALL naive. Do not hate that about yourself. I hate that we all had to learn this stuff the very very hard way. I didn't know my H was capable of the rage and words he gave me after I exposed ~ even though I learned here to expect them!

I just don't think any of us can prepare adequately for what happens. To see someone you love and expect protection from, become the opposite of what you know, in front of your eyes, is very upsetting ~ as it should be.

Hang in there, sweetie. This time will pass, one way or the other. Just hunker down and take care of YOU.

Spidey

Shaden,

It sounds to me like you need to do some snooping. There are some serious signs that contact with the OM continues or has rekindled. Do your homework. If you find proof that the affair is still ongoing, then it is your duty to inform the OMW. She has the right to this information. Without it she will not be able to protect herself and her family from a very serious threat.

Shaden, as long as the OMW doesn't know about the affair, the risk of resumption is always great because her H can pursue your W unimpeded. Your W can continue to contact the OM as long as his w is none the wiser. It is very risky to keep her other victim in ignorance, not to mention cruel.

How will the OMW protect herself from your W and her H if she doesn't know about the affair? My God, here she is actually inviting her victimizer into her home because she is ignorant of an affair. I think I would feel a moral obligation to warn her so she can protect herself rather than allow herself to make a fool of herself by inviting your W to her home.

I think your counselor gave you terrible advice that helps NO ONE in this scenario. It not only helps your W avoid the consequences of her behavior, but increases the risk of a resumption. May God help the OMW since no one else seems to give a damn about her best interests.

Have been snooping.

checked her emails, history, cell phone... even checked her Mom's computer (felt guilty about that one... going into her Mom's emails). I didn't know the password, but she had given it to my son so he could play a game on her computer.

I was out of town the last 2 days and she was off work... had lots of time to meet with him if she wanted, but her Mom was also here.

I came home last night expecting indifference... she wasn't greeting me at the door with smiles... but there was intimacy later... but from what I read here, that doesn't necessarily mean anything. She is going through a lot of emotions... because of moving (we have only a short time to find a place), her Mom having to move, etc... I've posted it all before. So, her indifference, depression, etc. could still just be all of these things. But I will continue to snoop.

Shaden

Call me selfish for giving a damn more about my own M. I have spoken to the OM and he said he was going to tell his W... still waiting for that to happen. Their daughter works at the Tim Horton's we go through (Canadian version of Starbucks...but better) and I feel guilty everytime she serves us at the window. Their son is my nephew's best friend. There is a lot of history between the OM's family and my W's family... both good and bad. The OM's uncle was my W's stepfather.
I want very desperately to tell the OMW and am very close to doing that... but I need to know it won't make everything worse. Yes, I agree it is right for her to know... but did I miss my chance?
Sorry if I am sounding angry... the advice is excellent and wanted... I am just struggling to get around this one in my own mind.

Shaden

Shaden, why in the world would the OM willingly bust himself if he didn't have to? He doesn't have to. And even if he did, the story would be so spun that she will NEVER get the truth. To expect that a lying cheat will tell the truth to his victim, when he doesn't have to, is very unrealistic.

And it still leaves the problem of the OMW. She is being destroyed behind her back and no one has the decency to tell her. Sure, your W will be mad because she doesn't want to face the consequences of her cruelty, but does that make it right to not tell her victim?

This woman has a RIGHT to know what is going on in her own life and that information is being cruelly withheld from her. She cannot protect herself and her children from your W and her H if she is kept in the dark.

If you have to have a selfish reason to be decent, here is one: the risk of a resumption goes way up if one of the spouses is ignorant of the affair. Your W can freely and openly contact the OM as long as the OMW doesn't know.

You have a chance TODAY to call her up and make this right. Better late than never. But to NEVER warn this woman would be downright cruel. And immoral.

Shaden, you have already had THREE D-Days and it is likely you would have had ONE if the OMW had been notified at the start. Are you setting yourself up for D-Day #4 by [i]continuing[i] to help them hide their secret?

Ok... you almost have me convinced. I am doing one other thing first... I'm contacting an aquaintence today who is in charge of the ethics centre for an international church organization. He attends our church (or the church we used to attend until the A) and knows everyone involved. I'll seek his advice as well and to see how best to do this so I make the least amount of damage to others (their kids, etc).

Shaden

Correction... I am not making the damage to others... my W and the OM did the damage... but I can try and control it.

Shaden

Good man. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I know you will do the right thing.

Let me give you another analogy. If you knew your neighbor's bookkeeper was embezzling money from him would you warn him even though the bookkeeper would be angry at you?

That is how I see it, Shaden, and I am always confused why anyone would apply a different standard to adultery than they would anything else.

The OMW should be given the same opportunity you have to save her marriage. But if no one will tell her about the problem, she will never have an opportunity to fix it. And it will probably happen again if the problem that led to the affair is not resolved. Her marriage is headed for divorce if she does not know there is a problem and has an opportunity to fix it.

In other words, Shaden, you might be saving their marriage by telling her.

My ExOm said something similar...a month post d-day H and I called OMW together, and guess what - she had no clue. I had told her I couldn't talk to her anymore as I had developed feelings for her husband and left it at that figuring they would figure things out themselves.

I guess he had said that sadly I had fallen for him, and he had to do the right thing do to his previous affairs, and that my H was so mad at him, called him swear names, and it sucked. OMW never really understood why it all happened and was sad as she thought I was her friend.

When we called to tell her - she was blown away - how had we found the time? where had it happened, were all those chats more than just friends? Was he leaving her?

The main reason we contacted her is that OM still once in awhile dropped me a I know you said no contact but I wanted to make sure you were alright message or email....and everytime I cancelled one email account, he would email me at another and another.

The minute his wife knew all contact stopped.

So don't expect OM to tell his wife on his own - it's likely to never happen or to be his own deluded version of the truth.


Yumm timmies - running out to get one soon <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> hehehe

Thanks, MelodyLane.

I have thought of these things and have been torn up over it... about the thought that the OM could do it again... but always went back to the thought that I have to do what is best for my M. That still may be exposing... I think I'm there.

Just one point, though... I'm not in love with my neighbours bookkeeper. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Shaden

You're right, Dorry.

The OM did say he was afraid his M would be over if he told her. He said that he would decide and if he didn't he would have to live with his own conscience.

But, if he gets away with it this time, it will make it a lot easier the next time.

When he says things to my W like he has loved her for years... when we have barely spent any time together except over the last year. We've gone to the same church and I played on the same hockey team... I've spent a lot more time with him than my W. This tells me he doesn't know what love is. He told me that his M is pretty good and doesn't know why the A happened. He told my W that he has never been really happy in his M... the type of M in that she became pregnant and they M'd... 20 years later, he is having an A. He says it's the first time, but I have my doubts.

Shaden

lol! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

What is best for your marriage is exposure, because it cuts off an avenue of contact. Any WS around here will tell you this. Once their affair partner's spouse found out, they were too afraid to pursue the OP.

Just another thought. You are rightfully worried about the OM's children. Consider that the chances of their family staying together is much greater if the OMW has a chance to fix the huge problem in her marriage. However, the chance of divorce is much greater if the problem is never acknowledged or resolved.

At one point, my W did say if we had to tell OMW, we would do it together. This hasn't happened and I think she was just putting me off at the time. She would probably be furious if I brought it up again. Do I give her the chance to follow through with this... and take the risk of her warning OM, or just do it and "suffer" the consequences that you all are talking about... no medals for me.

Shaden

oh yeah... sorry about stealing this thread for my own posts... it was an excellent thread.

Shaden

I would make it as simple as possible and just make the call. If you tell your W in advance, then there is a strong possibility that she will call the OM and forewarn him so he can lie his way out. Afterwards you can tell your W and give her the opportunity to contact the OMW herself and apologize. She might want to wait some time before she does that, though. You are going to have to deal with an angry wife one way or another, better to deal with it AFTER the OMW has been told.

No matter how you handle this, Shaden, you are not going to get a medal. So it is better, IMO, to just do the right thing for all despite some temporary anger.

s'ok <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I went to get myself a Tim's coffee and thought some more.

How about this approach...

I would contact the OMW's friend, who is also a pastor. (I teach this person's kids piano lessons... everything and everyone is so inter-related). I ask her to meet with the OMW and myself so that she can be there for support. We arrange the meeting and when I know the OMW is coming to the meeting, I can then talk to or call my W and say what is happening and invite her to the meeting.

I would say that I know she will be furious and if she chooses to leave me for doing what I feel is morally right, then I will have to live with that... but I cannot live with my own conscience by letting this go on.

This allows my W the opportunity to be in the meeting and if she chooses not to, it will be too late to warn the OM.

Of course a hundred things could go wrong and it would be easier if I just called... but I want to give my WW the chance to do the right thing as well.

Shaden

Shaden, your w can do the right thing by apologizing to the OMW sometime in the future. I don't think she has to be the one to break the news to her in order to make amends. It really doesn't matter WHO tells the woman, just as long as she gets the correct story. Your W is morally obligated to apologize to her, not neccessarily to inform her.

I just don't think this has to be complicated. I think it is a WONDERFUL idea to have the lady pastor there with you.

She is going to be completely devastated as it is, but to have her victimizer right there might add to the tension greatly; perhaps even leading to violence. I would rather hear it frm someone outside of the situation, if it were me.

Bumping for some newbies who are vying for the ever coveted Exposure Award from their WS'!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

This is a great post by the way, even if the poster who made it is from that other neighboring country of "Texas".

God Bless Texas!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

We have some Exposure Award candidates today!

Mel,

Fantastic post, Please keep it bumped up.

Will someone please hand the envelope to Mel so she can tell us the nominees?

**SNORT** <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

bump

To answer CSue's question, we have Dr Harley's newsletter and his recent revision in His Needs, Her Needs, chapter on Infidelity, to address the exposure question. From his published newsletter:


and

here

I've been here for a few years and I don't recall reading this gem.

So... bump.

It IS good.

But now I have the song God Bless Texas stuck in my head.

Timely post. I don't know what I expected, but a grudging NC and him crying on the couch for her was not it.

Ignore it, Sersph. It's hard, but ignore it.

So many FWS (former wayward spouses) thank their BS (betrayed spouss) for exposure. Hang on.

I guess the problem I'm having is that I'm expecting these emotions/reactions and the anxiety I'm having is making me sick and depressed. In a way it is good to read this because it confirms the very worst about what I am expecting....but at the same time it only makes me more sick that it confirms what I already thought. Maybe my marriage really will be over after I make a confrontation? I hope not! I want to go in feeling confident and in control....and although I feel like I have everything on my side - I feel anything but confident and in control!

You won't be feeling "sick" and scared after you expose. The point is these exposed affairs DON'T result in divorces, they result in recovered marriages. Exposure is the most effective, powerful tool you have against the affair, bar none. There are no guarantees but this is your best chance.

Here is what Dr Harley, clinical psychologist and founder of Marriage Builders says:


NOT exposing is the most likely to lead to divorce because affairs thrive on secrecy. By keeping it a secret, you ENABLE it and it becomes more and more entrenched. Dr Harley tells people "it is hard to save a marriage when you become an enabler" in this radio clip: here

Typically, the BS feels EUPHORIC because they have made a decided blow against the affair. The affair starts crumbling once it is exposed. They feel back in control of their lives for the first time in weeks or months. Almost every BS who exposes comes back and says "I can't believe I didn't do it sooner!!"

As BobPure [in a recovered marriage] says, exposure changed me from a SERF into a KNIGHT.

Your marriage can survive her temporary anger over exposure, but it can't survive an affair.

After reading this and seeing that my WW has managed to maintain her anger towards since mid-February - what is the range of time the anger can last? Is it a year? Two years? That's the tough one for me and I know that I'm in for a long haul.

It can last as long as the FOG lasts. Anger over exposure is a result of the FOG. Once the affair ends and the fog rolls off, they are no longer angry. This is why I say when you expose, do it good enough to kill the affair!

A trickle exposure, for example, is just enough to tick off the WS but not enough to kill an affair.

However, when it effectively kills the affair, the anger over exposure can last anywhere from 2 days to 2 weeks. IF the WS remains angry, that just means they are still fogged out, and a marriage can't recover anyway if a WS is fogged out.

Dr Harley addresses this here:

here

I understand what this is saying....but I still feel sick about it. I worry about suicidal thoughts and other repercussions that I don't feel I can share here.
Mostly posting that I'm scared here because I need encouragement...and am trying to deal one on one with a few people on the more sticky situations.

Of course you feel sick about it. You wouldn't be normal if you didn't. This is a situation where it is best to put your emotions aside, though, if you want to make it. In order to save your marriage, you have to be able to put aside your fears and follow a well thought out strategy.

And yes, suicide is a very real threat. BS's commit suicide, have nervous breakdowns and suffer post traumatic stress disorder from this type of abuse. Those who take strong action and follow this plan DON'T because they feel empowered.

Not exposing serves to ENABLE and prolong the affair. The only suicides I know of around here were committed by BETRAYED spouses whose spouses did not end the affair. And in every instance it was a BS who did nothing to stop the affair. An ongoing affair is so traumatic and painful to the BS that many end up having nervous breakdowns and/or suffer years of post traumatic stress disorder. They stayed paralyzed in FEAR.

The BS's who are able to put aside their FEARS and follow a strategy do not feel as depressed and hopeless, they feel EMPOWERED and in control of their lives.

FEAR will not save your marriage, it will keep you paralyzed with indecision. FEAR is not a plan and if you are serious about saving your marriage, you do not have the luxury of catering to your fears.

As far as the WS goes, not exposing is the most likely to lead to suicide. And let me explain WHY. For the WS, an affair causes enormous inner turmoil and depression. Just imagine how you would feel inside if you were committing some crime in violation of your conscience? It does not bring one happiness, but intense shame, anxiety and depression.

Just imagine a crack head who just had the crack pipe taken away. At first he is furious and so sad to have lost his crack pipe. But once he begins sobering up, he feels intense relief and gratitude. See, most addicts [and I include adulterers because it is the SAME dynamic] do not know HOW to stop. They need intervention from those who love them.

I have never known of a WS who committed suicide and that is because they are too selfish and self focused. Even so, exposure will lessen the odds of suicide because the affair is the source of depression. After the initial shock and fury, most WS' report they felt RELIEVED the affair was exposed because they had no choice but to end a bad situation that was making them sick inside.

boy, I'm not sure I'm ever going to see the end of this anger! I think tomorrow i will have a lawyer on my doorstep!

The angrier he is, the more damage you caused to the affair!

Unfortunately, I don't have six months. My WS will be angry, but I have been working for months to try to get her to cut the ties, so it will not totally be a surprise to her when I make confrontation with the OM.....it will probably only surprise her that I actually did it and then she will be angry that "I" ruined one of her "friendships", (not a very good friend if you ask me). It is bad when his best friend is telling him he is wrong and should be cutting ties with her!

The OWs are all threatening to sue me over exposure.

BB, can you explain what you mean when you say you don't have "six months?"

And if you plan to confront the OM, you do understand this will cause more harm than good if that is ALL you do? Confrontation of an OP should be done AFTER a very nuclear exposure. That is not enough to kill an affair but is just barely enough to tick off the wayward enough to come after you with more punishment. I haven't read your thread, but if you are planning to do this, please expose in a comprehensive and effective way.

Hopefully you are doing a comprehensive, nuclear, effective exposure.

PLEASE invite them to do this!!

I,m fairly sure they are not cosy zipping some wine at the moment. Me thinks the love is pretty much done.

How sad so it wasn't true love after all.

I'm sorry, I don't feel I can explain in an open forum. I know it makes it hard to understand.

Bugs,

????? I have followed your thread, and I am confused. What's going on here and why are you fearful of posting the truth?

Are you going the "my situation is unique" route?

LOL....there is a uniqueness to every situation! In order to remain anonymous I don't feel I can share certain aspects of what I'm dealing with. It is not that I'm afraid of the truth, but need to protect myself and my children. Maybe the problem is me not being able to express myself in a way that would share the pertinent info. in an anonymous manner - I don't know.

So your real name is Bugs Bunny?

Well, now that you let the "rabbit" out of the "hat" I guess I'm no longer anonymous?!!! LOL

Yes, I'm Bugs Bunny, and I'm hiding in my hole eating carrots!

Ok....so you were right, I didn't get a medal for exposing my WW in her A to our families....but this thread really helped me be ready for what was to come. I was pretty scared about the whole thing, and I'm not sure where we are going to end up....but during our whole conversation it was as if when she said stuff my thought was, (ok....I expected that - just waiting for my medal now!)!!! I rabbit really is out of the hole. My MIL was not sure she was ready for me to confront WS because of circumstances, but she told me today she is even relieved that WS knows that they are in the loop about the A.

BB, hopefully all the family members are talking to her about their disappointment and disgust over her affair. You really need them to use their influence to persuade her to end her affair. Same with kids. The children should be told all about her affair, too. She needs to hear from them since this affects their lives.

What about exposure to the OM's family and friends? Do you know how to reach his parents?

I think it would destroy her if she heard that they were disgusted with her. Disappointed yes, but she needs to feel loved right now. I think after I told her of being exposed it really broke her, and she is most likely going through some level of depression.

Right now, I really do need to start building up her love bank. Just hard to do when so far apart.

No, she needs to hear their disgust; their true reactions to her adultery. IT is her adultery that is destroying her. This is real important for her to see herself through the eyes of non-fogged out people. Adultery is disgusting and she should not feel "loved" for being bad. That is not love. That is enabling. Folks show her love by telling her how disgusting and disappointing her adultery is. She needs to hear this. Don't whitewash her crimes, BB. That helps no one.

Are you asking exposure targets to whitewash this? Or are you encouraging them to be open and honest about how sickening her behavior is?

Hearing how disgusting she looks to others helps her see herself through the eyes of others. That is what she needs right now. You love her for being GOOD, not bad.


In order to fill her love bank, you need to kill her affair. And how do you kill her affair? You expose it and create as much conflict as possible. Once it is killed, you will be able to fill her lovebank. But as long as she is having an affair, her lovebank is closed to you. Do you see that?

With my WS, her ideas of what people think/say about her are often much worse than they are. Due to some other circumstances I believe that the exposure itself was something that either will be enough to squash the A, or it won't matter anyway. If I don't take the opportunity to now start making aggressive deposits in her account, then I will have missed an opportunity that may not present itself to me again!

hoping to get the medal Melody giving reality check about what will really happen. Me ranting cuz I really don't want to believe it. Me coming to realization that Melody is right. WS giving me "award" saved up for me. reaction to receiving award!!! Possible outcome if I would just have listened and learned from Melody to begin with! What I really want to avoid but know I can't

Here is my thread which I linked to the page where I first started talking about exposing:
DMH's Thread

I didn't find MB until my WH had already been living with his OW for 5 months and they had already broken up and she had moved out (although he's still pursuing her and I believe she enjoys it). I really thought there was nothing to expose. Everyone knew that he left me for her. He lost his job because of fraternization.

After reading about it in SAA, I sent the OW my plan B letter yesterday and told her I wanted to fight for my marriage. This has made my WH furious, which I was quite pleased with. I feel the need to at least "expose" to the OW's sister that I want to fight for my marriage (she seems to be someone he confides in and her husband seems to have left her for another woman recently so she might be sympathetic). I need help with how to write the letter to send her and whoever else I can think of to tell (there really isn't very many people, sadly). Scotland has helped me a great deal, but would like others to add input. I am very appreciative of any help I could receive. I know it might not do much compared to normal exposure, but it's at least something. Thank you.

Since you sent the letter, tell WH you understand how he feels that way, you needed to do it and are sorry he is so upset. Period (don't say period but no additional hoo hah).

Good for you sending it to her since WH is still trying to keep the affair going.

Definitely tell OW's sister about the affair. Call her if you can or put your phone number in the letter should she want to talk to you. She might be pro-sis's affair though. Be prepared for that.

Let others give input on the exposure to the sister.

Should I tell him that even though I'm in plan B?

He sent me this text message via email before I had a chance to block his address:

I will never be home,I wanted to but only for the kids,your a hurtful person,no
better than me , and for hurt YES I SLEPT WITH HER ON YOUR B

Should I say what you suggested as a reply to this and then nothing else? I can do that, if it's the right thing to do.

In plan B....he hears nothing directly from you.

Do not even let IM address it.

Plan B protects you from his tantrums.

Do not reply/explain/defend your actions of exposing the truth.

Move forward and he works through his muck over 'there'.

Stay dark to him and now to OW.

Okay. That's what I thought. I did just send an exposure letter to her family. I'm dark now. Thank you.

Good job!

This is one of the few places you'll get a medal right off the bat for exposing.

It wasn't hard. I think I will enjoy it if I get to experience his anger. I know I sort of chuckled with the whole he slept with her in my bed thing. I already knew in my heart that happened. Don't get me wrong, it hurt, but he's done so much worse, it's just a drop in the bucket.

Thanks for the medals!!

bump