My name is L2F, and I'm a Plan C'er

What is Plan C you ask? It's Plan Confusion, and it's NOT the MB way.

Plan C is what you do when you don't truly get the specifics of Plan A/B.

It's what you do when you try a mish mash of both without consistency, without understanding, without faith and patience.

It's what you do when you let your emotions guide your actions

It's what you do when you're afraid of WSs reaction.

It's what you do when you believe...even slightly...some of the threats, rants and accusations that you WILL hear from WS's mouth.

It's what you do when you're afraid of the consequences of YOUR actions.

It's what you do when you give all your power to your WS and don't recognize your own.

The danger of Plan C is that it can go on for a VERY long time. Life is short, your love bank must survive, and so must you.

I really don't recommend Plan C.

L2F

I'll be back later with some of my own Plan C follies. Please feel free to share your own...cuz we've all got 'em.

That was an insightful post L2F! Now are you willing to change the things you have recognized?
Say

I know I was a plan C er. I just recently went to a Plan B for myself and my marriage. I tried to understand my husbnad too much. I thought if I understood him it would make it easier to deal with what was going on. It does a little but there are so many things I just won't ever understand.

I felt like because my husband never chose to leave our marriage completely that we were somehow different from some of the stories here. He always said he didn't want a divorce, then in anger and tears in his eyes said he did. Then when I mentioned an attorney he said if that's what "I" want. Then the other day when I asked if he was ever going to come home he replied not right now. Another time when I talked to him and asked if he was ever going to live in our house again he said I don't know.

I thought because I read so many stories about how the spouses were fighting, introducing the children to the affair partners, moving in with them and all these other horrible things that maybe our situation wasn't as bad off.

Maybe it isn't. But it's still an affair. And I realized that in the beginning my husband was cake eating. Then fence sitting. If there is a difference. I believe that he probably does want our marriage to work. I just don't think he knows how to fix this mess. In the meantime I will work on me and leave the rest to God.

Hi SNM,

Already done! This thread is driven by an "aha moment" and I wanted to get it down before I forgot...

Plan C is fearing exposure because of reasons x, y or z...all of which have probably been hinted at by WS

Plan C is also venting to friends and family about all the gory details instead of simply informing, asking for advice and letting them know you love your WS and are working hard to save the marriage

Yes, PL.

Plan C is letting your WS call the shots

Plan c is reacting to WS rather than getting in the driver's seat yourself

FOR ME PLAN C IS STAYING IN THIS HOUSE "FOR THE KIDS" WHEN MENTALLY I DECIDED I WOULD NEVER TRUST HIM, OVER 2 YEARS AGO!!

Plan C is letting your WW give OM your car to drive...

Ok, Ok....I claim that one as mine! I did it...

Duh

Just to clairify... I didn't let her... she just did it...

I didn't reposess the car when she started letting her boyfriend drive it...

However, I have some news about that... I'll post it on my thread...

Ummm....ooops. I have to admit that I have done this. They know all the gory details, but they also know that I love my WH and I want to save my marriage. LOL, darn Plan C strikes again!

Plan C sucks. I think its actually where all plans begin though.

The faster a BS can get themselves OUT of Plan C, the better off they are!

Plan C is beginning to believe it when your WS tells you you're nuts...

...it's taking any responsibility whatsoever for your WS's choice to have an affair...

Ah, that would be me as well as telling people the gory details...

My Plan C was thinking (first mistake), that my WH was somehow different than the rest, not as cruel, not as despicable, not as messed up.

I was wrong.

Notable Post baby !

Oh yeah, I was the biggest Plan C'er 'round these parts. Back and forth between Plan A and Plan B via the LB route in between with with a detour to Lack of Conditions Enforcement.

Like Puppy, I thought because my WH said he loved me, didn't want a D, etc. that he was different. Plan C is thinking you are in a great recovery and not really verifying it. Surprise, 5 months later found out A never ended. Some spectacular cake-eating right under the my sorry [censored].

Found out the hard way that WS's are all the SAME.

Plan C is trying to resolve long standing marital problems while an active affair is continuing.

It is trying to fix it to save it instead of saving it so it can be fixed.

Mark

Thanks Pep!

...Plan C is not reading everything Pepperband has written before deciding on a plan of action

Its amazing how BS's and WW's are all textbook in our behaviour when we have to deal with this awful situation of an affair.For me its a relief to know that this is how things pan out and that I'm not nuts or that my situation is not any different to others here.
Its scary to think that human beings can behave in such similar ways even though our personalities are so different.

Hope,

This thread isn't about what the WW is doing, but how we don't stick to either Plan and create our own path that doesn't work.

I love you girl, but the time for you and me to really change what is bringing us down emotionally isn't just the WW, it's ourselves and our thought processes. Does that make sense? f

I don't have an answer on this, but I am praying for the willingness on it for sure.

Chai.....

This post spoke VOLUMES to me last night. I was having a hard time sleeping, not liking my current situation and now we know why. My WS is pulling this crap on me and the BIGGEST difference is I know it. I know what can happen....I've read it, I've seen it.....and I DO NOT WANT THIS....

Anyway, just wanted to say thanks for posting this as a reminder for a member is ready to move out of Plan C to Plan B....

not2fun

shut up !

Wow!... Yes!!!!

Thanks Mark

L2F

I thought that quote from Mark was absolutely fantastic, too, L2F...amazing!!

Nope! :tonguestickingouticon:

Many of you have posted on my thread and I understand from reading this that I am in Plan C...

My prayer for myself and all others in Plan C is that we find our way beyond this plan and fully accept the magnitude of the task ahead, embrace the things that we need to do, and fortify ourselves in the mindset to do it.

That said, and knowing that Plan C is not a plan, it does feel kind of nice to know that I'm not the only one who has started there before figuring it out. I guess it's true that misery loves company...and so do crazy people.

HTM

LOL..SHHH..I hope Mr. NOT2 doesn't read this...

Not2,

Glad you see it. I didn't. I learned my hardest lesson:

THEY ARE ALL THE SAME - PERIOD.

I've repeated that to myself a million times.

Maybe if I say it over and over and click my heals, I'll end up in some wonderful place away from all this bullship. You think?

Mimi....

Are stirring the pot??? (insert rolley eyes here.....)

Hmmmm....if it works let me know.....

On a serious note, Mr. Not still reads my thread (he despises Mimi....) and gets mad at everyone here saying that they don't "understand" our situation and that "we" are different.....(now I REALLY need the rolley eye guy....)

not2fun

I want to hear about what's going on with YOU, NOT.

IMO, wasted breath and typing space talking about how HE FEELS about ME...

It really doesn't matter about HIM...Period..

And BTW, Not2, I'm getting really bothered by you continuing to report about what your WH thinks about ME or anyone else.

Bottom line, Not2

Do YOU want to work on recovering your marriage?

If YOU do, I will join with others in helping you.

Otherwise, I don't care to hear about what your WH thinks about me.

It's your choice to SHARE but it's a waste of MY TIME to read about it...

SORRY...

OF COURSE HE DOES, Not2...he is a foggy-[censored] wayward...DUH!!!!!!!!!

I hope he hates me, too...it means the addict is thrashing about when anyone says he needs help. I can just picture him stomping around the house (or his empty condo) and cursing us in his best whiny wayward voice...

"They are IDIOTS...they don't know ME...they think they know EVERYTHING!!!"

SOMEBODY CALL THE WAAAAAABULANCE!!!!!!!

...so what I'm hearing is...

Plan C is putting more emphasis on what your WS thinks and feels than on how you do...

Hmmmmm.....what was Plan C again????.....

plan c is apparently Plan CAN'T seem to do what I KNOW I NEED TO DO.

that would be my guess.

plan allowing my h to continue to CONTROL the situation and continue to have CONTACT with ow and not giving him any reason to stop CONTACT.

those enough plan c's for ya not 2??

mlhb

LMAO

I think I here the siren now...Do you hear it too?


WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

WWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

WWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

mlhb.....

hon...that was rhetorical....just a joke...lightening the mood....I'm in a silly mood today....Happy Mother's day btw.....I will update my sitch sometime soon.....

not2fun

ps....Happy mothers day to Chai and my girl Mimi....

Good one L2F.....put that one up there with Marks....(which byw I put on my bathroom mirrow with a dry earase marker...first thing for me to look at morning....)

not2fun

happy mother's day to you as well not2.

i know your question was rhetorical but i feel all those "c's" apply to here as well..

plan C: plan CHOICE to step it up a notch, to stop accepting CRUMBS, to stop being treated like a second class citizen, to stop taking the biggest C of all: his CRAP!

mlhb

Quick question for everyone.....

I didn't want to post this on my thread since we all know who is watching it....(and I don't think he watches what I reply to everyone else...so....)

I sent WS the plan B letter....should I be sending a copy of it to the BOW?? That was done in SAA....but I am unsure if I should do it...I mean I will...I could really care less what she thinks one way or the other....but just wanted to know the general feelings on this???

not2fun

Gosh--I'm no expert on this, but my first instinct is NO WAY!! If he is maintaining NC with her for REAL...why would you tip your hand to her that you are currently "out of the picture."

I could be totally off base...

he is NOT maintaining no contact. they just had contact on mr. and mrs. not2's vaca last week! and he was in contact with her before the vaca as well.

if they did it in the book, i would do it then. why not?
i understand your fear of plan B. BUT, if it takes so long for him to come around to truly wanting the marriage that you have fallen out of love for him by then i think that speaks VOLUMES. and, if he never comes around to your terms, that speaks volumes as well. you do NOT want the man he is now anyway. and the man he is now, well, maybe that is the man he TRULY is.

the way my ex is now and has been for the past several years, i truly believe that is the man he truly is and that the man i married was a charade, a fake.

mlhb

I don't see why not either....I am thinking she should know that I am the one doing this, not him committing to her.

On other question.....what about sendng a copy to her H?? Let him know what is going on????

i would, why not?

send one to her and her h.

do you have an intermediary? you need someone who can relay messages between the 2 of you about he kids and such.

plan B means plan B means no contact.

do you have all of that in place?

mlhb

yes....the Int. will be informed this morning about what went down. She's known all along...at first I wasn't going to use her, but I have changed my mind. She's told me just let me know when I am there.

There is only one other thing to take care of, but I do not want to discuss it here on the boards. Sorry, but with WS reading, not wanting to go into it.....

not trying to play any games, but the rules have changed slightly for me since WS is here.....just another regret for me....oh well...

Not2:

GREAT WORK, MY FRIEND!!

sent copies to both BOW and her H. Wanted to let her H know what was going on on our end so he won't get blindsided if they decide to "try" again....and wanted her to know that I let HIM go not the other way around. No sense in letting her think he has chosen her and not me......

anyway....Plan C....no more.....

not2fun

good for you!

stay strong. come here when you feel weak.

stick to your guns girl.

mlhb

bump for those of us who are still learning

This thread is so true it makes me sick. Crazy how we act when we don't know any better. Thanks for the post but not the bad memories. Ugh. =)

We get to learn from our mistakes.... don't we

ME TOO!!!! Does everyone do that???
I would always look ahead and think "we are different" We had such a good relationship, he is so smart, he is so driven blah blah blah blah.

This morning I said that I was constantly amazed at how true to the "pattern" we stayed & we are just like everyone else!!!

He told me it drove him crazy when I said things like that. (I have to remember that)all sitches are different & someone else couldn't know ours. I said they've hit it so far. He said Oh, so I guess YOU know how this is going to turn out?? I told him I didn't know the future or how we will react to it, but I knew that he had to go & that the chances of he & HW running away & living happily ever after were pretty slim.

I am sort of glad to know there is a name for my condition though! Ha Ha Ha
I'm still working on the cure.

Plan C is .....

Plan Chicken...to do what you KNOW needs to be done, but are too AFRAID to do it....

Plan Crap....the muck and mess that WS have BS in daily

Plan Controlling....for that is what the WS are desperately trying to do with the sitch they created

Plan Constipation....just kidding....


not2fun

Not,

Why do you think it isn't so?

All kidding aside...

If you follow Plan C, before long you're full of crap, too.

Mark

For me right now Plan C is "Crap, I might have been able to prevent it from becoming sexual if I hadn't been in Plan Chickensh*t) and not followed my gut instincts."

Otherwise known as Plan Chucklehead...

I am truly struggling with this.

If I had confronted RB instead of not, because WW asked me not to, maybe...
If I had exposed to MIL sooner, maybe...
If I had taken my son and left her alone when I felt I should, maybe...
If I just wasn't in plan C...

Maybe I wouldn't currently be in Plan Crushed.

YOU are not to blame for HER choices.
do YOU really think that you could have stopped her?
don't do that to yourself.
she has to own her choices not you.

it sucks and it is plan CRAP, but she did what she did and there is NOTHING you could have done to stop it.

STOP being so hard on yourself. YOU did nothing wrong SHE did.

the WHATIFS will drive you insane especially when the bottom line is that they do not matter because she had her mind set on an affair and it was happening no matter what you might have tried to do.

PLEASE do NOT blame yourself. YOU are not to blame.

mlhb

wow, i just read your sig line. you two got together when she was only 18 and you were 30?

i am wondering if the age difference is playing any part in anything. that is quite a difference when she was only 18. i am NOT making excuses for her, but am curious, was OM closer to her age? Were you her one and only? She was so young, she never really got to be out there and "sew her oats" so to speak...

i am just thinking out loud and again, it is NO EXCUSE FOR HER IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM.. but didn't that thought ever cross your mind when you got involved with someone so young?

no offense to you at all but my sister is only 19 and i would KILL her if she was involved with a 30 year old! that is if my father didn't get to her and the guy first.

mlhb

He was pretty close to my age.

Yes, she was young, but ours was a long honorable courtship. We took our time, and the age thing never was an issue for us. Our love and commitment to each other was truly a pure and righteous bond. Ours really was an absolute fairytale romance. It continued as such for 8 years. I thought it was still that way, but have come to find out that she for some reason withdrew and shut me out. It was then that she decided that she wanted to "feel connected" with someone else. The rest as they say is history.

This is part of what pains me so. That she did not fall unknowingly into this. She put herself out there, and when this Dbag picked up on her signals, she was off with aboandon and wanton disregard for everything in her life that I thought she held sacred, even our young son for G*D sakes.

She didn't just end up in the fog by happenstance, she chose it with sobriety and malice. I will never understand how she came to be so hurtful, or what I possibly did to deserve this most hoorendus of all betrayals. She knew at the time that I was trying to protect her. From him and herself, but she chose to proceed to F-ing him nonetheless.

It is incomprehensible to me. Now she tells me she loves me, that she will never do this again, but forgive me if that rings hollow for me at this point. I will try to make the best of the situation and I hope that one day I will FEEL close to her again, but today, this morning, it seems unlikely...

Sorry for the major T/J...

Plan C is trying to "please" WS, thinking it'll make them "like" you....

not gonna happen, and as a wise Texan friend of mine says (in a long s-l-o-w drawl and a knowing smile)

"Ya trah to do rahhht...'course ya cain't"

I think I got it guys....


Plan C is Plan chamealeon.....when the BS tries on all sorts of new "personalities" to make the WS happy and like them more....as mimi would say ...YUCK

not2fun

The problem, I think, is getting caught up in trying to appeal to the WAYWARD SPOUSE...

I know. I sound like a broken record but the WAYWARD SPOUSE is NOT YOUR REAL SPOUSE.

The WAYWARD SPOUSE, sadly, is "IN LOVE" with the OP. The OP has filled up the LOVE BANK.

The way I see it, in PLAN A, the BS is trying to reach through and get a hold of the REAL SPOUSE who is buried deep inside. The REAL SPOUSE still has love for the BS...

Like Steve told me and I will NEVER FORGET; "If he LOVED (past tense) you once, he can love you again..."

But I came to ACCEPT that the WAYWARD DID NOT LOVE ME...HE LOVED HER...

DING DING DING....we have a winner folks.....sorry that's all we have for tonight.....



the rest of that is good Mimi...especially the part of what Steve told you.....i think we BS get caught up with the fact that the WS are in a fantasy and WE come to believe that the feelings they have for each other are not real. We tend to dismiss them....(I have a feeling I will get smacked around because I am not stating what I am thinking right....)....interesting food for thought......(don't smack me too hard...let me think on this some more and I'll come back to it....)

The HANDWRITING in my Mother's Day card, from the REAL HUSBAND:

"There is no woman who is more loved than I Love you"...

EXACTLY WHAT STEVE PROPHESIZED...

Their RELATIONSHIP is SICK and DYSFUNCTIONAL but from a strictly BEHAVIORAL POINT OF VIEW, the WS does "LOVE" the OP because the OP is filling the LOVE BANK, meeting the ENs.

I think your WH and my H were alike in still allowing us to fill SOME of the ENs...thus, being cake-eaters..and our husbands filled our love banks, allowing us to still have love for them...

But, it's important to keep in mind that THE "LOVE" for HER is there and will remain until there is absolutely NO CONTACT for several months....

That is something I am sure I can handle. I haven't done a good job of it lately.......


And I look at their "love" like this....it what people tell HS and teenagers when they have their "first" love....people will say "you don't know what love is,,,,,you are too young....you haven't been together long enough...". I used to cringe when I heard that, and I actually still do, because I remember what is like to "be in love" at that age. To me it is too ABSOLUTELY real....

ok...I'm tired now...thanks mimi....

I wonder how many WW's realise at some point in their affair that they have made a mistake but are to proud to go home so they decide to stay with OP and make the most of it.

That is funny....really if you think about it, because that is what they REFUSED to do with their BS....

The key is to STOP WONDERING about the WAYWARD...

In PLAN B, the WAYWARD does not exist...

What the WAYWARD DOES or THINKS does not matter..it's SCREWY anyways....They are ALIEN DINGBATS...

This quote is continued PLAN C THINKING...

If the WAYWARD is "IN THEIR AFFAIR", the WAYWARD is a WAYWARD is a WAYWARD is a WAYWARD...

Some of the Fog-Speak Alien-Babble Blah-Blah-Blah of the wayward is almost always something along the lines of "Too much has happened." It's even quoted in the flash routine that runs on the side of the forums every single day.

In an effort to justify the affair in the first place and make it mesh with their own sense of ethics and resolve the tension between what even they know to be right and hurting the one they have promised to "love, honor and cherish" many a wayward will make a decision that "I have made my bed and must lie in it." If the affair goes on long enough, and if the betrayed spouse is unable to convince them that recovery is possible and that the marriage can be made better than it was prior to the affair, the wayward then considers the issue closed in their own mind.

At this point they might even make a decision to salvage the affair even if it is not working out rather than try to return to the marriage they have decided is unrepairable since if it was not unrepairable, every action they have taken thus far was wrong and this too would cause them to be unethical in their own mind.

These are often, I think, the same ones who refuse to return to the marriage even if the affair fails totally and instead they choose to move on and seek someone else as a life partner rather than admit any wrong doing in the first affair. It causes them to have to admit that their justifications were wrong to begin with and so they choose to go forward. To them, it is actually an ethical decision on their part.

Just my opinion based on my own observations.

Mark

Wow, Mark, your post is dead on, IMO. This, I believe, is exactly what I'm experiencing. I have been trying to find the words to express where I believe PWC got in all this. He wasn't even in an affair (as far as I know) this past year, and STILL would not engage in recovery efforts. It's as if he resigned himself to failure before it began, and came home only to be able to say that he gave it all he had.

In truth, with that frame of mind, he DID give it all he had.

Thanks for posting that. I feel so out of place here most times, because our M isn't ending because of an affair, but because he gave up.

SL:

I appreciate Mark's post..BUT..

I don't think it's helpful to try to figure HIM out.

I don't REALLY think that's possible unless he were to HONESTLY tell you.

I'm so STRICT these days about not making ANY assumptions.

For over 25 years of marriage, MY ASSUMPTIONS were SOOO WRONG.

Now, I'm in a HEALTHY relationship with my H.

I TRY to NOT make ANY ASSUMPTIONS and ASK HIM DIRECTLY about his thoughts and feelings...

Even now, in THIS OPEN RELATONSHIP, I'm OFTEN WRONG when I've made AN ASSUMPTION based on MY OWN VIEWPOINT...

So, how can YOU REALLY KNOW ABOUT PWC...

How can one REALLY know about a WAYWARD?


Why would YOU feel out of place HERE?

What matters to ME, what matters to US is what is going on with YOU.

That's all that YOU will REALLY KNOW unless PWC is HONEST enough to TELL YOU.

I don't believe in ANY ASSUMPTIONS.

I think WE tend to make ASSUMPTIONS in order to make everything fit into a perfect little package. Life is just TOO COMPLICATED for that. PEOPLE are just too complicated for that.

IT MIGHT NOT EVER, EVER MAKE SENSE.

I get really, really caught up into wanting everything to MAKE SENSE. I, too, like many, want it all to be LOGICAL...and often, that WILL NEVER HAPPEN...

You are right, that it is an assumption, without hearing it directly from the horses mouth.


Keep in mind, I can't do this, not now. You've got an advantage there. ;)I did try, no responses ever came, and may never come. It's hard NOT to draw conclusions from whatever information was gained and from the past actions. I'm not swimming against the tide anymore, I'm learning to swim across it, but it takes practice.

Truth is, there is some comfort in finding that I am not to blame, by making assumptions, even if only momentary, so I hear what you are saying about relief in making some sense. Truth is, none of this will EVER make sense to me.

I promise I'll never stop learning, though, and I can almost guarantee I won't stop making mistakes (even though I'm pretty close to perfect :/).

I probably feel out of place because my plan didn't work. I could believe that PWC was a wayward, with the whole wayward mentality. I didn't, however, want to believe he didn't love me anymore, and even without another OW, he was in search of that FEELING of love, and would still break his family to pieces to get it. An addiction to that feeling, not just the OW.

Hey, I just had an epiphany! Who'da thunk it!

SL,

One of the hardest lessons in life is coming to the realization that we cannot make anyone do the right thing. It is actually the downfall of many schools of philosophy that try to show that if person can just be educated or shown the truth or in some way be made to see reality, then he/she will choose to do the right thing. It is actually the reason communisim is doomed to fail. People will not do the right thing simply because it is the right thing. People in and of themselves are mean, nasty, cruel, heartless and selfish.

When you attempt to show people the truth and they will not accept it, sometimes they do accept it but choose to do differently. Other times, they cannot accept the truth because to know the truth requires that we act from the truth. It means that we cannot choose selfishly and must act based on reality rather than our own fantasies.

If we assume that all people are rational actors, that is, they make rational decisions about their life and what they will and will not do, then it seems simple to see the right way to do things.

But two things prevent that from being so simple. One is that in some cases decisions are based on feelings rather than rational thought. We tend to float along in life and see where it takes us rather than making a decision by choice. This causes us to end up where we never intended all because we felt better by not making a decision.

The second thing is that when weighing the pros and cons of a decision, not everyone places the same value on either side of the ledger. You valued your marriage above many other things and so were willing to fight for it. PWC on the other hand did not place the same value on your marriage, for whatever reason. So for PWC, the effort required to recover it and even to build it into one PWC could be willing to fight for outweighed the goal and so the decision to fight was not as attractive to him as it was to you. The consequences outweighed the goal rather than the other way around.

Nearly everyone wakes up one day and asks "How in blazes did I get here?" Some look inward to find the solution to being where they feel they do not want to be. Others look outward. They see others as the reason they are in the situation they are in. Unless they can see that where they are in life is the result of choices they have made and not what others have done to them or caused them to decide, they will forever be unable to find a way to make better choices going forward.

Mark

I KNOW that this is my H's ADDICTION...

I think this is a REAL ADDICTION..

I KNOW that this is a REAL ADDICTION...

Yessirree! this is where I be. Looking inward is tough business, and I can see why many do not want to do it.

Now that there quote is some serious BS "fogginess"......

SL, if this were the case then many others on here would be out of place as well....B...for example. And I can tell you this much, there were days when her calm bits of words were like a balm to my battered soul......and your encouragement has been invaluable to me as well. So get that stinkin thinkin out of your head......

not2fun

I hear you, Not2.

Most days, I feel right at home here. There is something about transitioning from the fight to save the marriage to divorce that leaves me feeling detached from marriage builders. Could be the entire platform this place is built on. MARRIAGE BUILDING. Right now, my M is being dismantled, bit by bit. It's just sad to me, and such a waste. It's hard to let go of the 'If only'. Alas, PWC and I aren't on the same page. Heck, we're not even in the same book!

Believer is AWESOME! She's worked thru much of what I'm experiencing now, and I will get there, too, just not all in one step.

Right again, though, I have no good reason to FEEL this way. It will pass. THis place has been invaluable to me, and dissing it by saying I feel out of place is not what I want. Even right now, I am able to convey my thoughts with those who get it, and it's helping.

SL,


You are the most amazing person who has so much to give to those of us who either don't get it or are still hurting so deeply.

Each one of our stories help someone somehow and even if our M don't recover, we are recovering and give hope to those who can't even imagine that.

I need you girl. I need your steps ahead of me or walks hand in hand because if I can offer you something, then I feel useful.

Oh, this is so true for me as well. You've put my thoughts into words perfectly, thank you!

Plan C causes you to delay exposure for too long because you're afraid of what you WS will do or what people will think of you...

....just want you all to know....this thread is giving me what is commonly referred to as a lot of 'food for thought'...

...and want to thank you all for it.

Morning Luna,

This is a great thread because anytime we can be reflective of our own behavior we can look at the truths and let G-d's will in for us.

SL wrote this very smart thing up above.... at least I hope it was her.

I haven't been around much lately because I feel a little like SL. Somewhat out of place.

I did mainly a Plan C and failed miserably. Just couldn't get it through my head that WH would not be logical. I was just so sure that he wouldn't tear apart a M of 34 years and leave us both in financial ruin. Again, I thought that he was different.

I keep hearing that the A is over, but I agree with what Mark said in that some feel that too much has happened. In my case, maybe so. I'm at the point where I'm not sure that I can get over it. My sitch reminds me of that TV movie where the judge had two families and he went back and forth between the two. The OP actually knew he was M, but the wife had no clue what was going on. At least he was honest with the OP. In my case, my WH fooled both of us. Lived with OP as if he was D (she was told that he was), and led me to believe that everyting was hunky-dorey. I just haven't seen recovery here with that kind of betrayal. Heck, I haven't even seen that kind of betrayal here at all. If your WS is openly conducting the A in front of you, at least be glad that you know the truth.

Anywhoo, SL please stay around because it's helpful for those of us following in your shoes. You really are an inspiration to those of us who think that we will never get beyond this. You, Bugs, Believer and a few others provide the encouragement that we need to get out of this emotional quicksand. Thanks to all of you.

Good day to you Chai!

I was out in the garden doing some weeding. It is a BEEEAUTIFUL day here in MD. The air is thick with the sweet smells of roses in bloom, honeysuckle and lavendar. It's yummylicious. The sun is out today, giving me my dose of VitaminD, and lightening my spirits. I totally get Queenie when she talks about the blah weather affecting her mood. I think it does that to everybody--we're not special in that sense.

Anyway, Chai, I'm not heading out in to the sunset. I still have much to learn, and lurking here, learning from other posts helps me a great deal. I'll certainly post on my own thread when somethings churning inside, and I'll chime in on y'alls threads when I think my particular dose of info might help or cheer you on.

I've learned the most from the 2x4's. I always had some comeback, until I humbled myself enough to truly turn the mirror on myself. Now, it's easier and I welcome the swats upside the head.

As for Plan C, I did it for the first year of our particular fiasco, caused by PWC stoopid decisions. I'm sure I made enough mistakes, but I don't blame myself (anymore) for his choice to leave. That is ridiculous. I caused none of this. His choices did.

Plan B is tough, and we all have issues going into it, especially with letting go, stepping aside and letting the chips fall.

I was there last year, letting the chips fall, and I'm back there again.

SL,

I'm with you. Sometimes the hardest part is to let go of the self blame. I've had trouble with that part of it. As I'm on MB more, I'm beginning to realize that most marriages were a lot like mine. With the demands of everyday streeses and strains, the M sometimes gets put on the back burner, but that is no excuse for an A. I have to keep reminding myself of it. Especially the way my WH did it. Something about that was just sinister.

We've had a cold, rainy Spring here. I hope to get my impatiens in soon.

Enjoy your weekend. Didn't I read somewhere that you were in Maryland? Anywhere near Baltimore?

Oh goodness SL,

You live in MD? Are you a Redskins fan?

It's beyond amazing how the weather can help or hinder us, isn't it.

About 20 minutes outside B'more. It's cool living close to both DC and B'more. I spend most of my extra time in B'more, as I live closer to it and work there. Lots of fun stuff to do.

As for the rain, it's been pretty dreary around here all spring. Today has actually been a RARE day lately. I'm couting my blessings, though, because soon enough there will be ZERO rain, we'll be in a drought situation, and it will be nonstop HOT.

So, I'm soaking it up. Just got inside from throwing the ole pigskin (actually it's a nerf football to be exact) with DS. He's got some good eye/hand coordination going on. THis is really a great age (almost six--one week to go).

Anyway, what can I say about Plan C. I dunno, cause I'm in Plan B, just like CHAI.

And me as well...

A few peaks into Plan C, but quickly got out of there.

Are you a Ravens or Skins fan? Know anyone who wants to buy season tickets to the Redskins?

I love blue crabs, how about you?

My dad is a die hard 'Skins fan. I'm a Ravens fan. It's interesting.

Today would be a great day for a ball game! Right now the O's face the Nationals as the Beltway series continues. O's took down the Nationals yesterday. I love hangin' at Camden Yards, drinkin' overpriced beer and eatin high dollar dogs. It's a great time.

I'm with your dad and I bet it makes in interesting.

So now I really am gone, Queenie and SL.

THEY WON...

Hey, you typin in DC right now, or in MD? I don't usually ask where peops are from. I do know that LG lives nearby. HE's even threatened to meet me, and at the time, talk to PWC. I know we're supposed to be all hush hush about this stuff, but I'm an opened book, so most people know I live in the area. Papaof3 lives nearby, too.

OH NO THEY DIDN'T..... I am STILL HERE FIGHTING FOR YOU....

Please keep FIGHTING for truth.... PLEASE...

I am a Jew... need I say anything more about being taken away

Me too, I am totally an open book. I stand for the TRUTH and having my M restored.

Actually I live in WA state. I was born in DC and lived in Silver Spring but moved to the west coast in 71

Looks like they even removed a thread. This place is odd.

I'll keep to how I post, making some buds here and there, helping out where I can. I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone on here today. Maybe THAT's why I have felt so out of place round these parts lately.

I knew that, Queenie, why did I forget the whole PNW thingy. Why are you trying to sell Season ticks? You don't live round here.

SL, I agree something is really weird on here today.

But PLEASE dont' go away. There are so many of us fighting to our lives and you have so much to give and offer.

I still have my season tickets, have since 60 and they people who bought them all these years don't want to anymore, so I have to find someone new.

I told you that they would lock that thread.

Asterisk sent me a message to "stop creating controversy" and then deleted the comment and thread.

BOLD LOVE will be GONE next...

I saw the thread.....



I love you....

I'm not going anywhere. I post for the wounded here, not for the opportunity to be BETTER than anybody else. Again, we're all very much EQUAL here, even the MODS. Human condition and all.

I do think erasing entire threads lately is a bit drastic. Kinda 'Stepford' ruling, IMO. Why not leave the threads for people to see. It's a good thing to question authority. Only those that fear the questions will shut things down.

Again, something stinks in the good ole state of Denmark, but I dont' have the time to track it down. I prefer someone just out and telling me. I'm not interested in coverups and deceit. That's what got me in this d@mned position in the first place.

There you go..

That's why it is RELEVANT to MARRIAGEBUILDING HERE...

We must speak up against this in all phases of our lives.

I saw the 'contraversy' statment. Got in my craw, and rubbed me the wrong way.

It was the wrong statment to make, IMO. Seemed pretty insensitive, which connotes a personal feeling toward the initial poster, but that's from my vantage point. Again, erasing threads like they never existed makes me kinda uneasy, especially when they are created by long time posters who have made a positive mark on these boards. Weird.

Yes, we should and we are. It isn't going unnoticed.

We keep moving in G-ds will and standing for truth. WE KNOW you don't stir up controversy. We know you believe in the MB priniciples and reiterate them over and over again to people. You are one of their greatest proponents. They fight for M and so do you.

They can take it away, but we saw it was there and KNOW.

bumping for whomever.....

not2fun

Bump

paraphrased quotes from 5/4/2010 radio show:

"What is Plan C?

It is a compromise. I never recommend Plan C. Plan A is you do the best to win your spouse back.

Plan B is you have absolutely nothing to do with the spouse.

Those 2 are the best strategies in an affair. They give you the best shot at saving the marriage.

Plan C, which I don't ever recommend is a compromise is an inbetween state where you are in contact but the contact is not solving the problem.

Plan C makes it more likely you will end up divorced. Some contact but not quality contact. This is a BAD PLAN. It is better to have no contact."

But, no contact would upset the waywards! They can't upset the waywards!

(That seems to be the attitude I see with most who go with "Plan C")

Oh, and I think Dr. H could have used the words "Plan Compromise" and "Plan Confusion" interchangeably here. Same result.

ditto!

Yep, in the end it really just boils down to Plan "Chaos"..........

BTDT.......

not2fun, and this underscores the point you were trying to make to schtoop about the "180." The Harleys do not recommend the 180 and this is why. It is basically "PLAN C." And as we have seen over the years, it doesn't work.

I would have weighed in and supported your point but I didn't feel like:

Yeah, you were better off saving your Advil for a real headache......

Thank you all for bumping the thread.
I had never come across it and it is inspirational for little ole me in B.

It was so tempting to do a plan A, then go to B and waffle a bit into making it sort of C....but being in a dark B is where I am and this thread shall help me stay unless my WH ever decides to end his A and meet my guidelines to rebuild.

Thanks very much!

Oh jeez I just came across this thread and realized that WH and I might be in Plan C! I've been through Plan A, then Plan B (didn't last as long as Plan A). During both of those, we have been through 5 FR's. I left my husband a month ago and that seemed to have spurned him into action about getting me back (though I left because I'd had enough of his waffling after 7 months) and now we are trying for the 6th time but he is not in favor of counseling and does not like "being checked up on...". So, it looks like we've somehow slipped into a Plan C.

Oy vey...

6th FR....you REALLY need to do a serious Plan B..

Val,

Did you have any conditions for coming out of Plan B other than end the affair?

See, in your Plan B letter you were supposed to have conditions in there such as attending counseling and giving up all passwords and accounts. Only when WH met these conditions should you have come out of Plan B.

It really doesn't matter if he isn't in favor of counseling or doesn't like being "checked" up on (I mean really???!!!! It would taken quite a bit of control to say to him that you don't like being CHEATED on...... )......there is NO POJA when it comes to WH extraordinary precations. His past behavior (the affair) superceeds that.....

I strongly suggest you tell him that he must meet these. If he doesn't or REFUSES then I would return to Plan B, because you are only setting yourself up for another FR........and much PSTD..


not2fun

BTW, I think I've finally "got it". The whole discussion was quite helpful, as is this plan "C" discussion.

Thanks.

Val, you don't need his "favor" to check up on him. He should NEVER KNOW. It isn't snooping if they know, and it isn't worthwhile if they don't know.

I'm glad I found this Plan C thread! It has been very helpful.

I've glanced around the site (in between classes) but is there any sort of format or template anywhere for creating a Plan B letter? If not, I'm sure I have plenty to say!

And what I mean by checking up on WH is looking at our cell phone records, etc. No email snooping or anything. If I notice something odd, I'll ask him about it. He doesn't like it. The other night I was trying to reach him at home and the house phone just rang and rang and when he finally called back on his cell, explained that he had unplugged the land lines except for one upstairs to "save energy". After we hung up, I tried the land line just to make sure. He answered the phone clearly annoyed that I was "just making sure".

Botany, Read this thread!

This is a good one.

BUMP

bumpity bump... by the way I am not sure how I feel about being called BSs.... :P

Lol, I just plan c'd big time! I looked on his facebook and found out he' s on another dinner cruise with OW. Yeah, the only person this info hurts is me. They don't have a care in the world.

plan b, plan b, plan b..........I.m gonna reapeat this in my head all night, maybe I'll get it through my thick head!!

Maybe you could take up a timewaster. Knitting, a videogame...something like that, that you reach for every time you're tempted to check his FB or something.

Good quote.

I know this an older thread but very informative thread. I just wanted to add the radio clips of Dr. H talking about Plan C.

1st Segment talking about Plan A an Plan B
Radio clip on Plan C

Bumping for all those out there who are still enabling their spouse's affairs

~RQ

Bumping up because I thought I was out of Plan C, but just realized I still am.

Waiting on Dr. H's reply to see if I go into Plan B this week.

This is useful for new people such as I.

Bumping again for those who waste so much time and effort and PEACE wondering "What is he/she thinking??"

After talking with Susan the Harleys explain what plan C is.
Then an off air caller asks why do people even have an affair in the first place.

Radio Clip about Plan C