Well guess what,

My dramatics now and Oh God all of you thank you all so much. It is Not that I am leaving here, but this is it!

At dinner tonight with my son Char called and we all talked and guess what! Her counselor, the administrator and her psychiatrist ALL conferred today and decieded she Does Need to get out of there and move to a new home..the assisted living home. We are going there for her to look it over next Wed. I also told her totally about my feelings about her affair and also th s**t heads who are trying to be friends with her and what she said is that you are always so up tight but you do know my morales and simply asked me if we were going to start staying together when she moves. Said yes and I also told her from my heart folks honestly, that I want to make love to my wife...Her!

Just again, another Char call and she wanting to be together regarding her possible new home. (And yea guys she wanting me to stay for a full weekend and well live two days with her is best we can do)...so damn I am so excited and Yes.

Opt., Turtle, Larry, believer, maritalbliss, Melody, SisterReed, Pepper, and Many others here who have just allowed me to vent and learn and try , well this time over the last seven months has seemed so impossible, but right now I feel I am so damn lucky that I feel like dancing.

My goal now is to so polish that peom and so express my feelings to her, and to somehow paste that poem for my love on a handcrafted card that when I present that to her she will be able to look thru me me and simply see my heart.

There will be lots to do the next week - drs. appt. and also taking her out Sunday, and then the visit to hopefully her new home next Wed. that I will not be able to post for awhile, or to bother you for awhile...*s*

Lary, esp. for you , I do know people do need to give back, but right now I cannot post to welcome and even give my small amount of advice to new menbers here until I get Char settled, but if I can I will certainly in the future.

Thank you all so much,

Tom

Awesome news, Tom!!

So good to hear that, Tom. What a miracle!

Hey Tom, explain what this means. I am little slow today. Does this mean you will be living with her?

Larry

Tom,

I am happy... and worried for you. In my own experience, my expectations, hopes, and goals were often not accepted by my wife in the way in which I had set them up in my mind. Regardless of how I went about showing them. Especially when 'giving my heart'. Be careful NOT to hope to see something too specific occur. In my experience, when I opened completely and did what my counselor said would "melt the heart of 98% of the women out there" my wife simply and smuggly ignored it out of hand. Of course, you might be married to one of the 98% however, when baring my soul resulted in a smug, contemptuous glare... it can really tear you up.

All that I am saying is beware of putting too much hope and expectation into your actions. You cannot control how others received your heart... but you can still guard it... at least somewhat.

Hi Larry,

It is an assisted living facility, and that means that I can stay with her for a day and night or two periodically.

Thanks,

Tom

Hi Cant,

Thanks.

You're right. I seem to always jump way ahead of myself.

I really have a gut feeling tho that she still is one of the 98%. It's not only that tho, I just have that gut feeling as I've had thru our marriage that she is one of those sincere, moral, honest women who I am so lucky to have at this stage in my life, and that whatever has occured between us that our marriage is the most important thing to each of us.

Tom

You think there will ever be a time when she can come home with you for the rest of your life? Sorry, you may have answered this before. I did read your original thread and understand your situation.

See, I think it would be neat because your love for her is in every word you say.

Larry

What about buying a home or condo and bringing her home?

Hi InLike,

I have thought about that for so long now. But just briefly just some facts. She has maxed out on her psychiatric benefits on our insurance, so I need to keep a good reserve for her medication and and future treatment. Physically she is not in good shape and yes I am in the process of getting her treatment for her knees which prevent her from walking well, but she also has bad loss of balance which has resulted in her falling here several times both outside while walking and also in home. One time one of those falls resulted in a concussion. I have had her in physical therapy for most of the last ten years now and I have had the diagnosis from several that that cannot be corrected. I'm sorry InLike, but I have split my most recent posts under this title from my original one where I described what she went thru as a result of complications from what should have been simply thyroid gland removal in late 1990s.

I did investigate in-home care but that is so cost prohibitive.

Ater the last three years of resisting what my family has been trying to tell me about her needing secured care and my wish to keep us together I realize that is not possible now for her own welfare and safety.

Tom

Hi Larry,

In being realistic with you no there is never going to be a time when we can now live together. Char and I both deep down know this now, and we talked about it today when I was with her.

Maybe a miracle, but there are so few in this world where that really does happen on this physical earth.

DO you know what tho Larry, this is so Not breaking our marriage. I honestly believe that this forced separation has brought us closer together.

I spent a long time this past year internally really blaming her for not taking better care of herself and to presrve our being together. I now know that my son and daughter have as well.

I know now that she wants to be with me and okay despite that crap at the nursing home with that guy I simply feel she does want me and that I have to sacrafice a part of me to get over my damned pride and hurt to so want her again, which I do.

Lary, I think I might have mentioned this may be on one of my threads, but a few weeks ago I found a picture of her from our wedding day...it was taken in Jan. 1969 by my brother...and it was at the reception when she was coming down the staircase in her red dress and we were about to leave on our honeymoon trip. Well bottom line is simply that I got that little 2 x 2 photo reconfigured to an 8 x 10 now, and it turned out great. I can now look at her, way way back then, and realize that her smiling face is still with me today. And with that, I have a few more things with which to embelish my poem for Her.

I see so many on here not seeminly willing to fight for their love (i.e., their partner), but not willing to fight for the love they profess to possess.

Larry, simply thank you. I have read a lot of your posts and comments, and altho I do not know and cannot know what you are going through, it will be my pleasure, as I will describe in a separate topic, to offer my prayers for you on this Divine Mercy Sunday.

All I can say, but thank you.

Tom

All I can say is:



Larry

Well, just tired tonight. Spent most of the day today doing tax research from here on state sale tax liability for the company. Tonight am just going to fix a frozen dinner, watch a movie, and then get to sleep.

C was a little disappointed, but understanding when I called her today and had to tell her that I couldn't have her here tomorrow as I had hoped. Wed. is the appt. with the assisted living facility and then Fri. her dental appt. I can't afford to take three days off this week. I am really hopeful for her and me with the appt. Wed., but am not going off the deep end. They and us as well will have to evaluate if that is best for her. If not that place, there are a couple of other possibilities now. I am just trying to take it slow and steady, not raising unrealistic expectations, but trying to support her with any of these opportunities.

Just Learning: I got caught up today in posting to NLG. I see you did too. I got to realize that my posts were elongated versions of your more direct post. I hope for his sake he does stay and accept the advice here, but that is his choice.

Tom

Hi Opt., and all of you,

Well Opt tomorrow is the big day.

Char called me several times today to make sure we are going and we Definitely are. This is to the assisted living facility.

This may happen, in terms of her being accepted, or it may mean applying at other assisted living facilities, but the line is that she will get to a better place soon, and now I am predicting by the end of June, at the latest. She has so many people behind her now that in the long run she can't fail.

When I did call her back when I got home she was talking about me hanging the pictures she wants from here, and furniture, and also helping her furnish, and she wants to make sure I can stay with her for at least a day and night or two. She is also so happy she can have one of the cats. Of course, I have hung pictures all of our married life, so what else can I do now except to continue to hang the pictures she wants mounted..*s*.

Opt., that place where she is at now is a really bad situation because it is a behavioral health facitily. There is abuse going on there, and honestly it was a last resort for here in terms of her having to vacate here last August. I have to tell you, I after this amount of time can see where she did have that affair, and do you know what I would have too if I was there.

Opt., all I would ask tonight in my expression here is that maybe you and a few of your collegues here could just offer a prayer tonight, Not for Char, but rather for me, that I may be able to guide her to the right choice, and support her, and continue to love her, and to most of all, encourage her to strive and to come alive again.

Thanks Opt.,

Tom

Hi All,

This is not at all meant to be a diary, but I did take C to the facility today, and we are both really tired tonight. The application, tour, and long drive (it is like 45 miles from where she is now), well I am much more tired than she is.

It's a good place, and much better than where she is.

Our son came with and she was ready to put down a deposit and move in next week. We both calmed her down, but didn't at all try to dampen her enthusiasm.

Optiimism, this is mainly for you, and really I do hope you see this. This place is Supportive Living, but they have somewhat limited support for people who have memory loss or problems. When we were in the interview with the counselor, she would have kicked me in the you know what if I had mentioned anything like that, and I didn't.

Main thing, without getting on her case on her enthusiasm, my son and I have decided to talk to her counselor and her dr. extensively either this week or early next to get a total assessment. I don't thing the fire in the past is going to be a big thing at all as much as I had feared but her memory is the really big deal... i.e., Opt, she put down her age as 63 on the application...she is 64, and she asked me in the interview when she will be 65. This has been so evident for the past few years, but now we really do see it. So I am going to go back to the well on this. I have extended my search now to include about 20 more places and I will spend the next several days calling and exploring each one.

Basically, I did like this place for her and so did my son, but we are not totally convinced it is the most approprate. Of course I am going to take some real flak over this but whatever. I'll take her out to dinner and continue the search and contacts on her behalf. None of us want to have her placed in a place where she will have to relocate or move in a relatively short period of time because we did not do our research.

Anyway Opt and All, I will most likely not be posting much at all here for awhile becuase there is so much to do and so much to research.

The only other thing I can say is that she does really seem to be focused on her family now, me too included, and I have to beleive that her OM is so out now. We did not have time to grab lunch on way down so we stopped and McDonalds (which she likes) and ate there on way to take her back. She kissed me and thanked me for the McDonalds's and getting her there.

So tired, but thanks Opt and All.

One thing I am wondering tho, if I really need to post my story here anymore, because now I feel what happened was a one-time thing, and now it seems to me that this is getting to me more about us rebuilding and her finding a home than anything else.

Thanks,

Tom

Tom:

We do have an in recovery forum. Some of the same people post here and there. Others just post there and here.

I think you do need a place for validation and support.

Larry

Hi All,

I have read a couple of very recent posts here today that I wanted to comment on just briefly and how they have touched me and have caused me to go back to my own 'well' in terms of my thinking. This is not just because of my marriage, our physical separation now, C's affair, but in terms of interacting, relating, and committment.

The one is GloveOil and the other is SOL.

I have to honestly say that when I first came here I had the attitude of yes, I know we have problems, an unusual circumstance, but that no one else should be able to advise me. Because it would be a blow to my ego if anyone on God's green earth could advise ME on how I should better understand and relate to HER. Afterall, that would show me up as the dumbest, most 'nice guy', twirled around, faked out, asleep husband in the world. For the men here, I hesitated to post because it would be like I was not really good enough (again like my analogy to my favorite - the sports scene, and like everyone behind the scenes knows when one quarterback is replaced by another one). For the women here, it is like simply you don't know anything about women even after all these years. No man wants to even conceive of hearing that, well at least me in my thinking up to now. And that sort of from my past experience, puts me in the category of a 'nice safe guy'.

Why did I post and why stay. It was that some here just talked to me as one human to another.

Today I felt the force of both Glove and SOL posts and it has caused me now to pause so. I am also a member of an AA online site as well, and most of the members there are very loving and supportive as well, esp those of us who have been there for awhile now, However, I have not seen this kind of honestly and pure openness as I have now seen here.

As I have said, my situation now is not nearly as stressful or urgent as some here, but do you guys know what, you people have probably helped more other people than you realize. And, no, this credit does not go to Dr. Harley or his staff, it goes to you all.

I know you will but I hope you guys do still help out a few of the recent posters here like joswells, butterfly, and NLG. I honestly admit I still feel I don;t have that much to offer, except that is p888888s me off when someone like NLG seems so close, but doesn't totally bite.

Thanks,

Tom

Hi

C and I are doing okay.

The only factor is that I now realize that her expectation of moving to the assissted living facility is going to take longer than she expects. No one made false promises to her - it is just the process.

In talking to her counselor twice in last couple of weeks he has provided me more insight than I have had in the past. She is impatient to get out of where she is now, and I realize that. Bottom line it is not going to happen that fast - references, finance, etc. I am not dragging my feet, but she blames me for not moving her in yesterday.

Per her counselor, some good insight. Her condition causes her to get reactive to people who are close to her if they are not meeting Her schedule, and in that case to seek out people who will agree with her. In other words, transferrence. Her Psychiatrist thru the years prescribed her necessary medication, but did not believe in counseling.

We are making progress. When she tries to blame me I simply tell her the truth about what I am doing, and if she reacts I change the subject purposely. A few times I responded with just simply 'I love you Char' instead of something like "it's raining now". I admit, this is a stretch, but a couple of times she just actually took hold of me and kissed me. I believe unlike in our past, it simply diffused the whole situation.

I am going to try to move to the In Recovery forum now because that is where I feel she and I really are. I love and respect this forum, but at this point I feel like a second year NFL player - that is, no longer a rooky to take up a lot of time coaching, but now a sophmore, and still not still not qualified to give any advice to the new here.

Thank you all,

Tom

Hi Larry,

Do you know what - I completely missed your post suggesting transferring to the In Recovery forum. I knew it was there but just simply had not bothered to look at it.

Anyway, I made some posts on this forum today, and also I made an initial post to the IR forum.

Thank you Larry.

You're going to get some prayers still from me ( a few extras tonight) until you advise me to stop...*s*

I will hope and pray that you And your family (including your XW) are well and have peace together.

Best of my Regards,

Tom

Hi,

This is very hard for me tonight, but I realize that I most probably damaged my value here in terms of insulting another person here and I will simply apologize shortly.

Just as an update, I got a call back from an intermediate assisted living facility when I got home tonight, and they are very interested in seeing Char as early as this weekend. This is in between an independent living facility and a nursing home.

It is close by and just two miles away with med and walking assistance. Problem, she cannot have the cats. That seems upmost in her mind now. I told the couselor up front everything - her history of manic depression, the fire, and all, and she wants us to come in as early as we can like this weekend.

Char is cake eating now that I have read and understand more here now. She is requiring me to lay back and go her way.

Will not. This is the best for her and I have discussed this now earlier with my duaghter and son.

Tomorrow is our son's birthday and we are taking him out to dinner. We will not at all discuss this inorder to make his day happy. I will have Char here on Thurs. and then she and I will discuss.

I ended out phone call by just telling here I love her and will see her tomorrow.

Thanks,

Tom

Well, we went to the assistend living faciity today and she objected - no cats allowed and small studio.
My son and I drove home a little earlier and just shook our heads.

This thing has to end soon, because if she does demonstrate that she is really totally opposed to everything as far as a new place, per her counselor, he is not going to endorse her. That'd be bad.

I am now really in need of opinions and advice. I realize that this is not a typical situation, but I feel now I need to go in a Pan B with her. That is, not contact and no support (aside from basic living), calls, communication, etc.

I do so need some advice now so. I feel I need to go into a Pan B. Not for her affair, which is done, but to Get her to realize that thre are not many options.

This I will admit is wearing on me.

This afternoon while we were driving home my son even suggested to me to take some vacation and take a trip somewhere even maybe to visit my daughter in seattle.

Will not update on this until I myself get a better grip.

Thanks,

Tom

Hey Tom, I am sorry you are having problems. Is it a reasonable expectation for her to take a CAT to an assisted living home? I didn't know that was possible.

About Plan B, isn't she very dependent on you? Can you bring me up to date about why she needs to go to an assisted living home?

My father was very difficult before he passed on a few years ago, but he was terminally ill. He refused to go into a nursing home and ran off the nurses we hired with his pistol. He was a real handful so I can sympathize with your dilemma.

Sorry you are having such a hard time, friend.

Hi Melody,

I still haven't found how to copy a response and just post answers here - I do that at work all the time with emails - but whatever.

The cats, a few of the places accept pets - small dogs and cats. And that is somewhat reasonable for her, except for the answer to your other question of why she needs assisted.

Melody, yes she is dependent on me and our kids. She's My wife. I love her very much and that won't end until the day I die. There will never be any other partner for me except Char. I still feel she loves me... she has told me so so many times over the last couple of months. I cannot envision having any other partner! That being said Melody, she has conditions such as, short-term memory loss (i.e., not recalling when I am going to pick her up, or sometimes her exact age), judgemental or cognitive dissasociations (calling the closet a refrigerator), and poor or risky judgement assiciated with her manic depression. I have talked with her counselor many times the last couple of months as well as her dr. and this is what they have said and I have seen. Her bad judgement leads her to some risky situations, like trying to walk away from the facility when she doesn't feel in the mood to take her medication and the affair. These things sometimes just cause me to honestly throw up my hands at times and want to go to like a 'B' or just get a break.

Melody for all of these reasons the assisted living is the best choice. Her counselor and dr. agree. And my son, daughter and all of the rest of the family agree. The only one who doesn't is my DW. The bottom line is that she does not need skilled nursing care, but total independent living is not appropriate. The other factor is that she did cause a fire, which so fortunately was very limited, could have been much more tragic, and that is a very real and limiting factor.

Melody, my dad died back in 1986 after suffering from Alheimerzer's for a long time. My mom cared for him all the way. He was sometimes abusive and insulting in his last year. I honestly think he was just so frustrated that that prompted him to do that.

Thank you Melody,

and by way simply happy Mothers' Day.

Tom

{hugs} Tom

Tom, thanks for the Mother Day wishes. I hope you find a place that suits your wife soon.

Very distressing news tonight. I called my wife when I got home from work and found that she was slapped in the face this afternoon by one of the other residents. In talking to her and getting info from her this seems unprovoked. She complained to one of the counslors on duty. That person yelled at her because my wife yelled at tho woman who slapped her. The counselor stated to my wife that she needs to calm down because the woman has mental health issues.

My wife complained later that she was feeling dizzy and was taken to the emergency room at the local hospital. She was released around 5pm and brought back to the nursing home. Apparently from what she told me the ER dr. told her that she had sustained some shock symptom and nothing more serious.

The nursing home did not allow her to call me or our kids because they wanted to make sure she was okay. She does have a cell phone, but is is discharged and she couldn't quite remember how to charge it.

I've talked to her now and so has my son and daughter.

This is the third time now where she has been struck, and we felt confident that they, the attendants, could control this type of thing after the last time.

I went on the Elder Abuse site for Il, the National and Il Registry of Nursing homes, and the IL State Attorney Gen. sites. Found on the registry site that this place has outstanding citations from back in 2009 still not resloved.

I talked to the counselor on duty tonight and told him that they need to take any and all precautions to protect her and to ensure that this does Not happen again at All. He will introduce this at their staff meeting tomorrow morning and the admin. will get back to me.

IN meantime, lost of work to resolve this. Am going to contact an attorney specializing in elder abuse, file a complaint with the state attorney general's office, and file a complaint with the Elder Abuse agency, as well as with the corp. headquarters of the facility.

My son and I realize that this might delay her placement in a better facility, but so be it. She will be removed from this place. She is dependent on referral from this facility from her counselors, and these actions may affect that. I also contacted the local police where this facility is located and the detective told me she will have to call them if this happens again and they will respond. I told the nursing facility that a police alert of report has been filed.

I just can't believe this. So, will have to devote much time for awhile in getting this resolved, and I am going to follow thru with formal complaints.

Thanks,

Tom

Well,

Just feel bad now during this holiday weekend.

The IL Dept of Aging investigated my W's situation. I met with the ombudsman last Wed. and found that although they believe there may have been abuse, they will need to talk with her psychiatrist, counselor, and the administrator. Like any government agency - slow moving. I have an appt. with an attorney next week who specializes in elder situations. I talked with him initially and he advised me to talk to the admin. there or have some independent party investigate and then contact him, which I did. The problem is this is very hard to establish and prove unless someone is actually neglected, injured, or even killed. These nursing homes just have a bastion of defenses in place, and I think some of them have to just to stay in business.

What his has done tho, my action in calling for someone to investigate her situation, is that she has turned against me and I honestly do not know why. We have not communicated now for about two weeks at all. It's the same reaction I and my family got when she first went there last summer. Part of the problem I now have is that the family is turned off by her not trying to defend herself, or letting others who love her help her - her brother and SIL, and our kids. They're discouraged, and I feel alone now.

Well, I am happy that is the weekend in a way. I distract myself with work and now my garden. I am now thinking that I want to fully retire and just do volunteer work. That's because when I go to work now am just not into it.

Yesterday had a follow-up call from a census taker. It was probably due to their random effort of verifying the forms sent in. I had to verify single household and since then I feel really bad. This is the first time I've had to do that. It's always been a household with two or more people.

When I went out shopping today and saw couples together that tore at me. We have had so many Memorial Day weekends and other holidays together that I spent alot of today reflecting on it. Man o man the grilling and picnics, drive in movies and like me trying to assemble a swing set for the kids or just wanting to be together. I know I am melonchaly (sp) now today, and I am giving me that time at last for another hour. I am missing her. Miss her waking up in middle of night and seeing me also woken and yelling at me when I am eating ice cream and watching a moive at 2 am 'tom don't eat all the ice cream' or nudging me if I am snoring. Especially miss her telling me if i am falling asleep fast nudging and asking me if I am not going to say goodnite. She always has said that I have a gift in being able to sleep thru anything, and I miss that too. I sleep alone now.

Man for those of you who have any chance of recovery, and I believe most of you do, please do not delay or hold back on your efforts.

Thanks,

Tom

Tom, Reading your stuff breaks my heart. I get mental illness. I wish I didn't.

Tom, have you ever done a NAMI "Family to Family" group? I haven't, but I have heard nothing but raves from others.

nami.org

[quote=]When I went out shopping today and saw couples together that tore at me. We have had so many Memorial Day weekends and other holidays together that I spent alot of today reflecting on it. Man o man the grilling and picnics, drive in movies and like me trying to assemble a swing set for the kids or just wanting to be together. I know I am melonchaly (sp) now today, and I am giving me that time at last for another hour. [/quote]

Tom, I am so sorry you are missing C this weekend. I know it must be so hard for you to be a single man after all these years of living with your wife.

My sister is the CFO of a chain of nursing homes, so if you want me to ask her anything, let me know. I have called her about situations on this board before and she was always glad to help.

Enjoy your garden this weekend, friend.

Tom, I am not clear on what you meant over on BT's thread, but I hope you are not saying you are having an affair. Are you?



What do you mean?

I think he's saying he's a waytard.

But Jesus supports him so he's got that going for him.


W

Tom...

Please read this scripture:

When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.

James 1:13-15

Mrs. W

Ms W,

I can understand your reactions, but a pretty snide comment regarding "think he thinks he is a wayward". Pretty cute.

Does not work with me.

Ya okay ...Tanya...she is a neighbor here and we have talked, and ya who would not want to consider friendship and even possibly more with an attractive woman. She is Russian and I have a hard time understanding her. She made me feel needed for a moment and that was last week but I am not so damnd dumb as to sacrafice my well being and my self respect to engage at all. Last time I saw her was that I told her I was working on getting C home this week and she just told me I like you and hop e it works out, and that was that. She obviously knows I am so much hurting for my wife.

The only things I have on my mind now are that I want to get C out of this ridiculous notion that I was not trying to LB her in filing the abuse complaint. I am going to have her home tomorrow so we will see.

Was I tempted MsW. Yes! I am not tempted now. Do you know the silly reason why. I would not respect myself or my honor if I did. Do I feel depressed sad and worried. Yya. I mean of course. Have I seen Tanya in last few days. No. If I do I will parade Char out with me holding her arm. So yea, guys get lonely and tempted and they maybe even follow up some, but do men have a consience and sense of honor for their marriage vows and Wives...so goddamn right they do.

Thank you for your scriptural ref., but I really don't relate to 'epistles'. I relate best to the gospels..just my bent from being in the seminary and my faith bent. My favorite.."Consider the lillys of the field, they neither toil nor spin, but not even Solomon in all his array was clothed as one of these". This just from memory, but is means that Christ was telling us that each person is valuable no matter what they have done.

Some people here tend to get harsh with offhanded initial comments and posts. I spent three years back in early 80's as a crisis intervention counselor. The training was two semesters at the College of Lake County in intervention and psychology. It helped me a helluva lot in dealing with Char's condition over the next several years. I was a senior counselor for a year and had the overnight shift which I handled from home with call waiting facility. One time I had to use the call waiting to get help for someone who seemed to me sucidal. The girl called the line back a few days later and thanked my supervior. In my time in that function I never once felt I wanted to be patronizing or judgemental. I sometimes feel that some of the so called vets (Melody and yourself excluded) are here.

Thanks,

Tom

Hope all goes well with Char when you have her home with you.....the road is tough right now but it will all be worth it in the end for you and Char.....
Hang in there, you seem so strong and committed to her, she is a lucky woman....
Can't wait to see the guy that wants to dance again......that day will happen for you...have faith and be a believer in all that is good in this world....
I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you.....
Peace for you and your family......

I don't have time to read and respond to your whole post this morning Tom, but I wanted to point out that I made only the ONE post of scripture to your thread. My husband, Mr. W, posted before me.

I'll be back later.

Mrs. W

Wait, wait, wait....Tom...You have not been judgemental, really? I think you need to rethink that ...


Unless you just mean at your old job, but on this forum? That is not true.

Tom...

I understand that you believe that your honor and commitment to your wife and your vows will protect you from becoming wayward, but the truth is, if you continue to place yourself in temptation's way, you will be tempted [I know you've admitted that], but what you aren't seeing is that eventually your will power would fail you and you would succumb to that temptation. The only thing that will protect you is taking EXTRAORDINARY PRECAUTIONS not to allow Tanya or any other member of the opposite sex to meet any of your emotional needs.

Tanya MUST remain off limits to you. You have admitted that you are tempted by her and attracted to her. Take the necessary steps to protect yourself, your wife and your marriage by not being anywhere near her, okay?

You are a recovering alcoholic - I am sure that you don't go hang out in bars every day - That is but one extraordinary precaution you take to ensure you don't drink, right? Use the same mindset regarding your marriage...

Mrs. W

Clearly, Mel and I have some work to do then - we must be slippin'!!!

Tom, you have been clear that you are a Christian...So am I...As fellow Christians it is our job to keep each other accountable - many times that requires us to make judgments about one another. Be glad that you have friends here willing to call you out if they see you making poor decisions - that is a GOOD thing! No true friend would stand back and say, "I won't judge Tom if he is doing wrong"...See?

One final thing - calling others "judgmental" is in and of itself a judgment, right?

Mrs. W

A married man who wants to be faithful to his vows, wouldn't.

I don't.

The only attractive woman I want to consider friendship and even possibly more with is my wife.

If you think that kind of thinking is normal for all men, then you are already "thinking wayward." You have a gigantic hole in your armor.

I am sure my WH before his affair became physical would tell ya that his beautiful coworker was just a good friend...someone to tell his problems too and she hers.....Then you start slowly isolating your W without even realizing it....Then you start talking to her more and more...Then you start to have those little love pangs for OW....Then BAM!!!!!

You need to read the anatomy of an affair thread, I think that is what it was called...its very eye opening.

Surely not on this forum. Tom said I don't know what it's like to be a betrayed spouse.

He told me that I was having an online affair with one of the posters......He has apologized and I have forgiven, but for him to say that others are being judgemental of him, pffft....Thats like, well....its like the black little teapot callin the off- white kettle black.....orrrr sumthin like that!

I always avoid the whole color issue and just say "Pot, meet kettle"

No t/j intended. Back to the regularly scheduled posts...

Is where you hide your pot really relevant to this thread?????



I actually shorten it even more to just "L - O, Pot"

Silly Mr W....

Well no, but...ssshhh....stilly hides hers in a little black teapot, pass it on...

Bliss, that expression isn't related to any "color issue", Kiddo!

No kidding! Check it out~~~> Phrase Origin

Mrs. W

I always thought it meant one of the pots was cooked with more, so it was blacker from the fire, and the kettle was newer so it was cleaner looking. And neither one of them should think they were 'better' because regardless of their color they both had the same function.

And off we go with the t/j!

Are you SURE you aren't on drugs???


Their "functions" are similiar, but not precisely the same. Whereas, their colors ARE exactly the same even though they have differing names, shapes and purposes (historically speaking).

Did you hear the one about the stainless steel sink calling the stainless steel refrigerator "Silver"? L - O Sink!

Mr. W

p.s. - oh yeah. This threadjack is ON.

OMG, MaritalBliss...You..are...hysterical!

Okay... but when Tom comes back and finds us partying on his thread, Im blaming you...

I must beg to differ, Mr. W. Now. Take your copper kettle, with its lustrous sheen, its smooth, reflective surface, cold and pristine. Place said kettle upon the cooking hearth, next to the utilitarian workhorse - the cast iron pot. Notice, if you will, the harsh and unambiguous testiment to Difference: the cast iron pot's rough and heavy presentation, the weighty existence of its grainy surface. Its blackness, man, note its blackness! These kitchen implements stand side by side in their usefulness, yet worlds apart in their physical comeliness.

Yet, come the day of reckoning; the day the copper kettle meets its Armegeddon: The Heat Source. The gas flames, flickering at its underbelly relentlessly as it performs its solitary task of heating water for Stilly's tea. Ah, this is the day the cast iron pot will, indeed, call the kettle black.

And now that you mention it, my bursitis flared up so my orthpedic guy gave me a cortisone shot and some vicodin, which sometimes makes me wordy. Is it noticeable?

No, no, MB not wordy at all.



Okay,okay....... where is my damn teapot...

Excuse me, but my kettle is blue plastic and my cast iron pots are orange, so are they not allowed to insult each other?

Now, SugarCane....Did you catch them insulting each other and that is why you had to put your foot down and make a rule about it?

:::thumbing briskly through Robert's Rules of Kitchen Implements::: Ah, yes. Here it is on page 13: "If the pot is black, and the kettle is any one of the primary colors, insults may be permitted. However, secondary colors MUST remain mute."

Your cast iron pots need to zip it.

Shh! He came back. I just saw him. Pretend nothing happened on his thread.

Quick, hide the pot.

Oi! Who are you calling "pot"?

ssshhhh...here, put it in the kettle

OMG, OMG.....I am....really....dying here...

You can put your weed in it...

my addition to the TJ,
I have several pieces of cast iron cook ware. The ones I inherited are lovely and black with a almost reflective luster inside, because neither I or their previous owners use soap or soap products when I clean them. The pot I bought 5 years ago is still somewhat grey in colour but slowly developing a black patina inside.
If your cast iron is going orange, it might need oiling.

Can make the pot a bit sticky though.

[/TJ]

Bwahahaha....Thanks a lot Mr W now I have to take a swig of my asthma meds....I dont know if its from laughing so hard or from the pot....

OMG, OMG...Lil is talking about her cast iron cookware... ..Im gonna pee myself....

Mark, Mark...its about time you got here. Lils talking about her cast iron cookware...

Well, GEEZ. I don't own any cast iron anything and I never smoked pot. I guess I can't play.

y'all are smoking hoochie weed over here????

Hey Still, I got this off of your webcam just now.

.....Wait, wait...Did you get that?

Sorry, Tom. Take care, Okay ....Please move all HS humor to Mels thread.....

Dang, hang on! It's still burning!

Ooops, sorry Tom - didn't think you'd mind a lighter moment...over to Mel's thread...

bliss,

Is fine. I over reacted.

You have a good intellegence the way you respond to the betrayd here. Please do not give that up and go away.

Feeling better now. Thanks.

Tom

I have not wanted to comment on her for awhile since I took Char to the assisted living center. And, that was back on June 8. Final analysis, they wanted her to live there, everyone if for it, her brother who controls her funds vetoed it apparently because he and his Third wife do not want to be bothered.

I wanted to vent and really pound someone. I did not. Now I feel my marriage has been totally violated. Sorry to all, but I do not have the funds now at this time to afford for $4500 per month in addition to what I need to live on. She attempted suicide on Tues nite at the nursing home, so now she apparently is done as far as any other place to live.

I dont know what the hell to do except fend for myself now. I do need to survive. I am still paying off her past medical bills. I feel impotent now and I am her husband but noting more I feel I can do is to pray.

I have a friend here now at the complex and her name is tanya. She stopped here this evening as I was just sitting on my patio here and looking at my garden. WE didn't talk much but she is going to stop in later. I just appreciated her. I told her that I feel now I gave Char my blood and she seemed to totally understand.

I am not going to divorce but at this time I feel Char is so totally gone and spiritually out of it that I honestly cannote handle this anymore. She is no where near the person I married. I learned from her counselor that she is spending time with some guy there and I have no say in that.

Ya know what...I am going to be age 68 on Monday. She..this woman here suggested a dinner out and she Does recognize that I am depressed for however she saw that, and she still wants to. I am not totally an invalid emotionally, I still work part time altho that job is going to end at end of this summer, and I volunteer for food pantry and now am in training again for a hotline couseling, but I know I cannot do that until I get myself straight.

Tom

So when the going gets tough...

the tough become wayward.

Have a nice time on your date.

Really classy posting about it on the infidelity section of a marriage BUILDING website in front of hundreds of betrayed spouses.

You are NOT entitled to female companionship. You are STILL married. If your wife is cheating on you...prove it and divorce her. THEN date.

I'm sorry you are alone but that's not an excuse...only an explanation. Though you are obviously vulnerable you are also educated about the risks you are taking and how to avoid becomeing wayward...Yet you proceed into the abyss.

Good luck with that.

Mr. Wondering

I agree with Mr. W. You are married; you should not date. Get a divorce if you need to, then make friends with women once it's done.

I also wonder why you have to pay her medical bills if her brother controls her money; shouldn't her money pay her bills?

I am feeling sad for your wife, who is obviously distraught enough to committ suicide. Can't you spend time with her?

Tom,

There are a lot of young people depending on people your age to be better than this.

yea well you're classy too W.

hope you get some congrats et al today. i didn't.

so go on your merry way and feel you can condescend to people. You don't know my situation as I don't know yours but that is irrelevant now. am not going to be age 68 and alone... so guess i can tell you is some day and yea i believe in this you will be looking down and laughing at my demon soul as crhist calls the judgement and oh ywa you will comment to him that i counseled him shortly before he died but he didn't listen to me.

As far as any relationship I did for gods sake need her the last couple of weeks kept me alive. you better get over fact that m and f can be friends and caring, much more than you seem to be.

anyway good luck. You have your wife I do not.

by way did go to confession yesterday morning in prepartation of this. priest told me she is "your wife forever". yea well did the best I could to repent for everything but realizing as I came away that this is best. best thing I can tell you is that she does not want to live either. Her brother's wife is withholding funds preist told me that is wrong but obviously it would take money and time to turn around. in my mind now that Is puting Assunder. So when she goes They will have to bury her because I will not be here.

So thank you W for your wonderful reflection of life.

Tom

{{{{{Tom}}}}} I know you are going through hard times....I am sorry for that, but please listen to your conscience. That is all I am asking you to do. I know I cannot sway you one way or another as other posters have tried that already. I also am lonely, sad...but I know I will feel worse if I go against what I know is right. KWIM? Take care Tom, okay?

sh

yea hi. i just posted igrip. Well anyway for what it's worth to him he seems like I was like when I was his age and he does not deserve to lose his wife to some gds. anyway i am concerened that he is being advised wrongly.

what can i say excep that someone like you doesn't deserve a t all wh at youre going thru. No way. neither does I. I can't even pray for you or anyone now with the way my mind is I would like to but is not within me.

I am reflecting now but have always been a soft hearted person with regg rds to others. i gave into my wife so many times nt like in terms of being like brow beathen or like that or like she dominating but willing to give up my immedieate interestes fro hers. and know hat was eventually happy doign that and she reflected it lots of ways. But that is all gone now. so

**edit***


not feelng that good tired and for first time in my life took seversal seelaidsnow. feeling very tired. i dont' care. shcar has taken them all her life but i have not until now and now i feel theere is snt wa way to like turn back i simply dont care anyore at all

yea she did call latr today and couldnt honestly talk to hr. rcrhist for all He is worth will probbly had poilice at my door later. at least said goodby to her. that is imprornat at least toe me.

anywa y am not being 6 8 so please plase please value yourself of all of the people here you and melod and larry and just a couiple of otheres have menat so much to me. nevere ever ever devalue yourself. never ever ever forget that your son vies you as the most importatnt person in the universee

tom

Tom, I am worried about the tone of your posts. I know that you are a member of AA.

Please pick up the phone and call your sponsor or a family member. I know you are going through a bad time with Char. Do not let it destroy you and have you give up. People here do care what happens to you and your situation.

Bump...

Has anyone heard from Tom since this post. Did not like the tone of it especially these last few paragraphs.

Tom, please just check in.

hope, he started a new thread directed to MelodyLane a few days ago--he was really incoherent and made a few comments that got me and KiwiJ worried as well. the mods stepped in and directed him to a suicide hotline. i'm assuming that since the site administrators can trace his info and find out his real name and location, i'm sure he got real help if he needed it. right? god, i hope so.

His birthday was yesterday and he was saying he was gonna do something to himself on his birthday before....Tom, just let us know you are okay....

not feelng that good tired and for first time in my life took seversal seelaidsnow. feeling very tired. i dont' care.

Not sure what he said he took but I am praying that he receives the help that he needs.

Think his birthday was this week. Blessings to a BS

His birthday was yesterday....

Tom?

I think we got played by our boy Tom. How manipulative is that - to manipulate total strangers into worrying about your well-being? You are a jerk, Tom. Good luck in your situation.

Am not sure how to approach this or anyone.

I have been home now for a few days after getting here from hospital late Tues.

I do not want to die at all but to be like semi awake when police are on presence is making me now angry still. 2 am was aware I just had to cooperate. Long and short my dau. called local hotline and reported my talk to her and police actually broke in here and last thing I remember is carted out. That was two days at local hospital. Brief time with the psy and I spit in his face. Released Tues eve no transportation and walked home just jeans not shirt or shoes socks and got home walking 3 or so miles. Missed a couple of days of work but job still there but will end at end of July as I am a consultant now. thankful for that. I had four tablets of an over counter sleeping pill I bought for my W way back last Feb. when I had her stay over and she couldn't sleep. It's dyphrenydramine and very common but on me it put me out.

Do you know what drove me it is pride. Char was not responsive or acknowleding me for a few weeks and was upset. More than that being apart now is getting to me but I have not choice now but to accept that. Truth since she is only 64 and she has long term perhaps for rest of her life nursing home care funds run out very fast. she called last nite and cried for a long time. she admitted she had gone to an outing with some guy in the nursing home, and that hurts me, but i sort of understand now with me wanting to kill myself, but she told me she wanted me and was terrified.

This place where . more to come hopefully now phone c

This is COMPLETE TRASH. Take it elsewhere. I always thought you had your own agenda. Now I see it confirmed. I am disgusted that you would try to lead well-meaning posters on your little personal merry-go-round. I don't know what you're trying to accomplish, Tom, but you disgust me. To lead us to believe crap about your potential suicidal tendencies sickens me.

I don't know what this gives you in the way of self-validation and importance, but know this: I have NEVER spoken to a poster - even 'faux' posters - like this.

But I will speak this way now: My time is valuable. I have a husband I am working through an affair with. I have children I am getting through school. I have a job that requires my extreme attention. I have friends on this site that I have grown to be fond of. I don't want to watch them being scared about the welfare of a fellow poster who is playing around for attention.

I speak only for myself. I will respond to none of your postings - I will not play into what I think your game is.

talked to Char and we are on for her birthday. She wants that. and Marital you do not understand the situation I am in and what you said was cruel. Okay I did an overdose. Okay i have not lived up to your standards but you have not lived my life nor could you.

Anyway, C wanted me to smuggle her in here for an overnight. I thought about it and cannot do it. I would love her here but if caught, and there are people in the condo here who would notice, it would literally mean that i could be booted out. and It is not right.

Still we are going to have a happy birthday for her.


Marital: Please look at yourself tonight. I have been honest but at my age I do not need crap from you. I will say a prayer for you tonight, but as far as you are concrened I doubt if you are recovering from your affair or recoering as a person to now say what you said. For your infor Marital, I have lived and loved this woman thru 41 years and have endured and hopefully have gotton over almost 3 of those years with here in psych wards and me taking care of the kids and the home. So please, ding me some more...guess you think I need it. I was not arrested but was confined to local due to intervention. Am now thankful. You are a person who could set anyone back ages. Go figure yourself.

Regards

Tom

You played us. You scared us.You made this all about you. "Oh My God! Tom OD'd!" You did NOTHING OF THE KIND. AND YOU NEVER MEANT TO. IT WAS ALL ABOUT MAKING IT ALL ABOUT YOU. You are PATHETIC. I'm not sure what your problem is, but I don't think it is infidelty. There are other websites for you problem

Well Mraital.

I am not going to even try to justify my being here to you. I will pray for you tonight, but your attitude is pretty much despicable.

I am okay now I feel. Last weekend I let myself get despondent. The only person I called was my daughter. I did not think she would call intervention. I was afraid to go beyond four tablets because I dont take meds and not knowing the feeling or consequences. I have seen my wife take overdoses and my son and daughter have as well 7 times. Each time rush to emergency room.

I have stayed with her because I love her simple as that even tho to you I seem like evil. I have worked on a crisis intervention hotline for 12 years here in our county and have intervened in three possible suicide attempts.

SHe knows I am honest and I work hard.

I know from what I know from exprience that I have depression now. even she told me that. Probaly have had that for awhile,. I had not done anything to deal with it. I had to se a psych when I got out of there last Tues and I accept that have to get that treated. After years of trying to be the strong silent guy for my wife I never ever wanted to admit I could ever admit to depression.

So Marital if you are so great, take a walk in my shoes.

Regards and I will say a prayer for you.

Tom

You "pretend overdosed" and you're okay with posting here without comment? You amaze me. Say whatever prayers you want if they make you sound holy. You are PATHEIC. PATHETIC.

I am done with you. You gross me out.

maritalbliss, may I suggest you make good on your threat to not respond?

Why do you ask?

.nevermind.

Tom, I am glad you are okay and getting the help you really need now....It was very torturous that you posted on here and the "in proper protection" thread that you were gonna end it on your birthday June 21st. You even told us the day and the post felt like it was directed at me. You posted to us and there was nothing we could do for you. We dont know who you are.

Well anyway I glad you are still on this earth....as for me this is too much. Good Luck and my prayers for you and your family.

Just apologizing to everyone here for my weakness in even wanting to try to kill myself and in that I involved any of you. I full well knew I should either stop or call someone here close but I didn't because I wanted to inflict my anger on anyone I could. I did inflict my despondency on my daughter and she was the one who intervened in call local police.

It is just damned damed hard to know that we will never share a night together again.

and I agree this is the wrong site or board for me. C did have an affair when we were initially separated. That nursing home just sucks. The contact I have is a receptionist there who told me about the presence and visiting of that guy who was there before. The counselors of of no help. The place has been cited accordiing to

at least am less apprehensive tonight because for first time in my life am now needing to take antidepressent drug and against my initial will they seem to work.

So will try to find a more appropriate site or just try to pull myself up.

Good luck finding an appropriate support forum.

Tom, I appreciate you did not leave us hanging since that last post.

Life overwhelms all of us.

Pray you get the help you need to not reach that dark place anymore.

Go back to AA. Contact your sponsor. See an IC to work on depression problems.

Contact C brother and let him be legally responsible for your wife since he seems to be the one doling out the money for her care.

If you decide to end the M becuase of the circumstances; get a D before you think of dating.

It is a lonely road but God always remains by our side.

MB, do you know something we don't? Can you please let us in on it? I was kind of thinking the same way as you but have nothing concrete.

Too much ringing false, all along. I kept reading posts that almost seemed...I dunno...baiting to me, like he was trying to get attention on his thread. When the expected posts came up, he was rude to the responder and gave high-handed "I'll pray for you"-type answers. KWIM? It was almost obstinate to me, and seemed like the goal wasn't marital advice.

The drama began when he alluded to killing himself on his birthday. Then the dramatic post of gobbledy-guck (had to spell that last part wrong - didn't make it past the censors), I'm assuming as a way of making us think he was going down for the count. Then, nothing.

What capped it for me was everyone posting out of concern until the 25th and getting no response. Then I posted suggesting that he was playing us, and he posts back 12 minutes later. Can you say "lurking"?

Then he sarcastically apologizes to everyone for his "weakness" in trying to kill himself. What the...????

My gut says What a terrible, manipulative thing if that's true.

i'm so relieved he's OK (relatively)--when we notified the mods, i had asked something like, "do we need to call someone or is this a play for attention?" and i'd been feeling horrible for even suggesting that...because what if it hadn't been a play for attention, you know? whew.

at any rate, glad Tom's moving on and getting help appropriate to his situation.

I know - and believe me, I hate being the meany to bring it out in the open for the same reason.

But it infuriates me that well-meaning posters put so much time and effort into this if it was all a game.

There is an ignore user option. I have been ignoring some users for a while. Their posts are of no significance and offer no help to anyone.

I guess more "prayers" will be going out for me today(AGAIN).

Ah, well, I always appreciate a few prayers occasionally being flung my way - I reckon it's better than being cursed.

Depends on the prayer...

tl

ITA, RN. Yeah, I was pissed at the time lost in posting and felt used. OTOH, anyone who would do that (if that is indeed the case) is doing it as a cry for help. I hope he's getting that/

Don't you guys think it might be better to just ignore him in case he is serious? I always think I don't want to be the one to say the wrong thing to a man who might be on the edge. Just saying.

maritalbliss, I guess I got jaded to this kind of stuff a long time ago. Used to get internet prayer requests that were false. Once I even got a prayer request for someone I knew -- over a year after the situation described was well over. Of course it contained false info and dates like 'last tuesday,' etc.

I pray if I feel moved (for Tom, I did) and then I let it go. It is in God's hands, and I have enough people who need my help. I can't get worked up about everything, and some things I cannot change.

I accept the possibility that everything described here is true from Tom's POV, as well as the possibility that he is playing us. The line between those two possibilities may not be as well-defined as we would like to think. Suicide is for many a desperate plea for attention.

I think much of Tom's "unruly" behavior here can be attributable to a generation gap, one which includes an unwillingness or inability to overcome on his part (many people Tom's age figure out Internet etiquette just fine; some simply do not). Throw in a few other issues he's described and the story perhaps adds up.

Or not. Who knows.

We do what we can.

In any case, I don't ever let anyone drag my emotions around based solely on an Internet post.

Oh, and mb, nothing I just said is supposed to express finding fault with you for anything. My earlier post was supposed to be more along the lines of what SmilingWoman was saying, and this one is just supposed to be more of an after-the-fact comparing notes and thoughts.

I believe that alcohol is playing a big role in Tom's postings... you can almost hear the slurring. I feel sorry for him because he seems like a very lonely man at this point in his life. No one can make him "get it" or even listen, that has to come from within him.

With that said, if he is playing us, maybe someone else who really does need help will be helped by the posts to him. I dunno, but I'm pretty certain this will be my last post on this thread. I'd rather help someone who will listen.

I didn't take it as finding fault, markos. I'm with Meggy, though - I think this thread has outlived its usefulness.

But you know what - I have learned something from it! I need to work on being a kinder, gentler person some times, and knowing when to move on (heard you on the ignore button, Scotty! ) when I see that I can't help a poster, for whatever reason.

Ditto with PM. Think Tom got overwhelmed and slid back to the bottle. That is why I suggest AA first and contacting his sponsor.

In MB the addiction has to be treated first before the R issues can be addressed.

My prayer is for him to start attending his meetings again and clear his own fog no matter what.

Tom is also sliding down a slippery slope with his friend "Tanya".

He got right lippy when someone pointed that out to him also.

I don't understand why people are so quick to get into other relationships when they are clearly NOT finished with the first one.

It's like having loose ends all over the place...or like lint from a new towel....ya know...you wash it...shake it...and the stuff just flies everywhere. You cannot even begin to pick it all up. Oh well....analogy over.

committed

I have been afraid to read any posts here because of what I did.

I am on medication and have been for last week and a half. prescriptions from the psychiatrist at the hospital and yea they did know up front almost that I have been drinking.

Char knows. I was ashamed to tell her until last sunday. To say the very least my behavior affected her and caused her to be angry and even more depressed that she even was. I know why I did this but there is no excuse. I am thankful that the meds do not allow me to get so low now. ya i told my sponsor. He took me to dinner other night and while no tongue lashing it was worse to feel his disappointment. He advised me to find some volenteer work if I feel up to it and every day AA meetings and have gone with him now for last several days. I only work part time now and my employment contract ends at end of August. Today I worked 8 hours at the chicago food bank putting cereal in bags. Tired and going to sleep in a few minutes.

I didn't think after all these year I would ever get lower that I was when I went for treatment.

I shouldn't do this but I am going to have C stay overnight on Monday...her birthday is Tuesday. I have it that we will be careful. She told me tonight she wants to and wants to be with me and I told her I wanted this so that is a start I guess.

Anyway I am probably not going to post here much for several reasons but just felt I honestly needed to update. I dont feel down like I did just deeply disappointed now in myself.

Tom

Tom, what are you saying in this post?

Is any of this an apology to the posters to whom you have been rude? If so, why not say unequivocally "I apologise"?

Is any of this admitting that you have been drinking many times when you have posted here? Are you apologising for that, and for berating people who took you to task for your posts?

Is any of this an admittance that you have engaged in wayward behaviour with your "friend" Tanya, possibly because you have been drinking? Are you going to apologise to Mr Wondering, among others, for blasting them for calling you out about this waywardness?

Is any of this an apology for threatening suicide here, trying to make people feel guilty for driving you to it, and making caring people worry about you? Are you admitting that you were drinking when you wrote those posts, too?

If you are deeply disappointed in yourself, why was your first post here yesterday yet another insult, to the poster RemainNameless? This followed the same pattern as many others; you were rude to her, she pointed out your rudeness and you apologised, when you should know by know not to post like that in the first place.

Will you continue in this pattern?

And, you know, there is no need to tell people that you are "not going to here post here much". You just stop posting! Giving notice that you intend to stay away is another attention-seeking gesture designed to elicit pleas for you to stay.

It is time to stop this pattern of insulting, threatening, seeming to apologise, insulting again, withdrawing, coming back and insulting again. It is time to focus on improving your behaviour. Stopping drinking is the first step.

Well said, Sugar. Let's hope it hit the mark.

Thanks, bliss!

Concentrate on your sobriety.

At least one AA meeting day...

Without sobriety there will be no recovery in any part of your life.

Keep the serrenity prayer close.

One day at a time.

SC,

Yes that was intended to be an apology to all the posters on this site. Yes I had been drinking for several weeks before this. I admit it. Yes it was crying for help to some people who I thought at the time I could have care. That was immature. At the time C and I were not in contact and I ..as opposed to her.. let it bring me despondent. She was angry at the time that I was not doing enough to get her to a better care facility. Yes I didn't give a d**m about what I posted here to be honest because at the time I felt combative and despondent. I felt like me against the world, So honest, I did not give a d**m who I affected or offended. Sometimes that is easier on a website than face to face because you do not have to see the person. That is the level I let myself get to.

Char actually called the local police I learned with the phone call from our dau. and with help from her counselor. They all know I drank several beers and took four sleeping aid pills that night and now I at least have the psychiatric counselor at the hospital and also the psychiatrist who I know and C know for 35 years for medication. I did bring her here on Tuesday for her 65th birthday. She inspected the condo while she was here for both alcohol and pills. I had kept the pills and she washed them down the sink. There is no alcohol. She held my head with her hands at one point and told me if she ever learned of me doing anything like this she would walk away. She didn't hold my head loosely it was like she could want to crush my skull at the moment. She is 65 but she is a strong person. She kept asking me how I feel and I told her - it is like I feel sort of impotent in fact that I cannot get her to a good transitional place for more than two years based on our (my) financial situation. We discussed fact that she does have an inheritance that could help keep her there for more than that, but her brother has not been responding to her or me on this for over three months. And yes, she has a bad back and her legs are weak so I massaged her and we slept together. I was honestly nervous at having her here overnight when I know she is disallowed, but I needed that for us and I was willing to take the risk.

All I can say at this point is that I am sorry for offending everyone here. I did show her just a small part of my posts and I am not afraid of doing that because she does not have access to a computer nor is she pc literate. Just so you know she is the most honest, moral, and loyal person (woman) I could ever know. She was appalled and told me so. She is the only one on earth besides God and my concience to cause me to feel shame and remorse. She is a sort of hyper person when she is feeling good - open to talking to anyone and everyone and not afraid to bring me into her group or contacts as her husband. She is also a very very sensitive person and in need of admiration, affection and and just simply intimate attention which I have not given her over the past couple of years.

Three meetings last week and four meetings the week before. Simply, I hated the first meeting when I had to disclose what I did and where I am at. I feel comfortable again like I did in early 90s. My sponsor now is ill and cannot get around much so have chosen another. We relate. He has called me about three times day last week. If I say no to a meeting or put him off he is going to fire me as he said. I dont want to be fired by this guy.

I do feel ashamed to have violated this website and all of you here- this is what char advised me to say and I say it willingly and sincerely.

Tom

Also. despite my own problems and inflictions of harm to others I am in usual times very willing to compromise and altho not a 'softie' I am very willing to admit my faults. The reason I say this is that has always made me yea a sort of 'softie' when it comes to others in need. The only reason I say this is that I am really concerned about YEG...and okay igrip. The reasons: okay, I had a lovely devoted wife for most of my like. I cannot imagine discovering an affair on her part. When two people are together like that you just have to take that as truth. I fully realize deception, but in my case I know her and I know me. Char and I are well beyond the early years and now I know she and I have a great history that neither of us wants to have wiped out. Those two are so young that I fear that they do not know what they may be giving up thru inaction. For an old coot, I just wish they both would saddle up. I know I would, but fortunately I did not have to back then.

It is just discouraging to see this.

Tom

SC,
I am also fully aware now as I was not before that this was my way of striking back at her for the times that my son and I realized that she had taken an overdose and had to be hospitalized. I honestly forgot to mention that in my last post. It made me a pitty pot as a man that if in my turmoil I could get back at her thr others.

Altho deep down I realized that a couple of weeks ago he pointed out I was wanting to aim at her.

I feel stonger now. Based on a lot of realization that this is my responsibiliy for me and my wife and yea w/o telling this guy I realize he felt I wa an 8 year old at the time.

Going to call Char in a few minitues and then take care of my garden with full realization that you do not have to be macho to be a man. Maybe that is what has been bothering me all thru last several years. You have to be simply your human self whether male or female and hope, but let the honest chips fall where they may. I know now that no matter what you have done you do not have to go thru hoops - that causes needless stress - you have to look the other partner in her (or his) eyes and just look and trust.

Tom

Hello,

I am not going to overlook that the silence here is a recognition that I am despised. I am conscious of that. But in general it has been a decent week.

Char did have a nice birthday, and I took the risk of having her stay overnight here last Tuesday, and that went fine (undected by anyone). She wants to do that again and that is the hitch. I cannot for another few months so as to not to raise concern or possible detection.

Meantime I have job leads ( my contract with former employer ends the end of this month). Receive the hospital bill for my incident and arranged to pay and Char knows about it.
Look if you guys do not want me here just say it. Okay. I am not begging, I am now doing several things to strive. I have cut down to 10 cigarettes per day. Am taking my medication and seeing my counselor. I am finally eating healthy (last month) lean beef or fish or pasta and vegitables or sea food or cereal. Have begun to exercise just simply starting with pushups and situps. Am starting simple.

Tanya is gone from here for all I know. Have not seen her heard from her. In all honesty she seemed to being hanging by a thread financially for her condo unit here and may have lost it. She was working at McDonalds. I don't miss her or any of that.

Anyway, beside my marriage, my patio garden now is my pride too, along with my kids and my hope.

Tom

Not by me, Tom, and I very much doubt by anyone here. I'd be astonished to hear that anyone here felt that way.

I'm completely out of my depth on your marriage, on Char's needs and on your recovery from alcoholism, so I do not give advice to you. I'm glad to hear that things are improving and I hope they continue to do so.

Hi,

Saw my counselor this morning - took day off today - and was ready to hear his evaluation. This was not ordered by a court just my agreement with the dr. at the hospital to get released from there timely. They could have kept me for another day.

Anyway that was two and half weeks ago. Char calls and checks on me and just to talk. It has been hard and has been embarassing esp my attack on others in my frustration. But do you know what you feel - it is like you have your back against the wall. You simply allow yourself to lose all that you have learned in you life as far as values and let one incident overwhelme you.

My medication has been cut based on my statement to her that I am searching for a new job, discussion about Char, I guess just my appearance and attitude, and the fact that I had to give her a plan of makeover inculding eating and cooking right and exercise and a commitment to get a physical exam with the next two weeks. Man I stated home exercise beginning of this week sunday ... just the basics which I believe in, pushups situps, hand pulls and such. You can do these on your family living room floor. I feel better and I mean not just better but more concinced I was an a-----e and I need to devote to this but not to an extent that it imbalances my life.

Ya know know there is justice and I honestly believe that God provides but subtely. This tanya is gone she as i understand couldn't pay her rent but I got myself in my uncertainty that I was worthy that I accepted anything. Okay. Other day the russian woman who was sort of keeping tabs on my wife being here at all approached me that day as i had cut off some branches. She was one of those who after the fire last year stood out in front of our condo and like gaped I guess. Point is i had cut some branches from the tomato plants (yeah I know that sounds trite but I am happy I had the chance to have a garden this year) and I was walking to the garbage and she saw me carrying those branches and yelled to me ..waht is wrong. Well bottom line she came up and started ripping lower branches off scolding me and trying to show me how to get them in better shape. A lot of people stop and look now that some of the plants are like 5 ft tall now. Point is she was just trying to help I do not interpret this in any other way, I now have the branches she split off in water containers to get them to flower, I told my wife and that is the irony. Initially when she approached me I almost told her that she should just get away because she told...but I didnt'. I just blurted out what ..because she speaks broken english..and that i didn't know what I was doing as far as gardening. She said hi today and inspected the way i had pruned the plants. But know what, I have a friend now. Her husband has severe osteoporsis to extent that he is now confined to a wheel chair. She had wheeled him out and then she asked me to take him for a walk in his chair which I did..and helped with getting up and down the ramp here. I could hardly understand him and he is older than I even am but one thing that struck me is that he was as I understand in the soviet air force way back in the late 50's when i was in j.h.s. god the realization that at that time we were enemies and now he is actually living here is awsome. Plus the devotion I see in then is also awesome.. The point is I let myself go and I didn't prejudge and know what...I feel now just based on just a couple of their comments that they would not object to Char staying here overnight again if I was here and I always am if she is here. So god I did not react and I am glad I did not and this is like one of those mysterious ways happenings.

SC, the hardest thing is trying to work thru a situation like this. We want to be together, and alot of time C blames me for not resolving it. I do not have the funds now to afford another option. It is not like we want to be apart and yea that is frustrating. Well that is all I can say. Only other thing I can say is that it is so disappointing..and yea I am a romantic and I am idealistic..but to see igrip not responding ..well I was his age at one time and is disappointing. Other guy I posted to is TI but now not so concinced he is real but I feel you have to give benefit of the doubt.

Just thanks,

Tom

I have a question on an issue that is very important to me at this time. I just hope that I have enough credibility left here to even ask for advice. I fully realize that this is so much outside MB, but I have asked a few people in my relationships and have received mixed answers.

Last week as I mentioned here I had Char stay overnight on her birthday. Everything was fine in terms of no one learning of it here and she among other things got a good nite sleep.

Well, we talk everyday now and since last friday she has asked me when she can be here again. She wants to stay overnight this coming Sunday and Monday. My initial reaction is that not two nights at all and I told her so. So now is down to her reqeust not for one night .Monday night. I have started to pay into purchase of the condo and that would be a clear violation of the agreement as the purchase agreement has a clause about her being here overnight since it is knowledge we are married. There is no stipulation regarding her being here during the day as long as I am here with her.

I would have not even considered her being here overnight last week if her counselor and the nursing home admin. did not give her a pass to be here overnight, with her medication for two days, and knowing the risk. Her counselor also told me on way out when I picked her up that she is in good hands where she needs to be and just have a happy time on her birthday. For gods sakes way back in Jan. when she agreed to reestablish contact with me I was grilled in that I should not have her here and why do I. Now it seems they are inviting me to. Yes I know these are professionals, and as much as sometimes I have question their protection and procedures at that home I am now honestly taken aback. On oher hand I tonight feel guilty for not wanting to take the risk. Last week when she was here she was so relaxed and happy or seemed so, I do not feel need of details in terms of our affections, but she was also able to enjoy a grilled shrimp dinner out, being able to shave her legs, my massage to her bach muscles and butt, time with our cats, and alot of other things.

well as I said, I know what I have done wrong here in my expressions on this site, I know this is terribley unusual, and I know each person has to make this type of decision for himself/herself. I will not make my final decision until I talk to the associate pastor at my church on saturday. I am not even going to anticipate I am just going to listen when I go there. She has pressured me, and as much as a WW, but she is not now, but in terms of tearing me for not agreeing with her to allow us to spend overnight.

So I know now how I feel about this risk, i just really need from you all how and what you would feel like and do.

Just thank you,

Tom

Hi,

I have decided to have Char here for two days (one night ) this week. That is afer I had opinions from my kids, friends any the priest.

Yes I am upset that I upsetted you guys. I am also upset that marital bliss seems to be the spokesperson for many of you. Life is too complicated for anyone to act godlike and judge.

In terms of where I am, I am so happy and excited to run the risk of having Char here a night this week.

I watched You Only LIve Twice last night. - the Bond film - she and I saw some of it way back in 1967 at a drive in and I did not see the ending. When I watched it last night I was not teary eyed but just nostalgic.

Even tho I don't get responses here I will continue to try to give comfort and support and encouragement to others as I see fit. Thank you for those of you who have responded over the last few months.

Tom

Hello.

Just an update and I am feeling sad and uncertain.

I did post on 101 because I know this doesn't belong at this forum. It is about my son age 24 who broke with his four year relationship with his older gf (meaning age 34) and that and his periodic depression lost him his job as a veterinary assistant, which he has had for several months. This has killed his career plans. He was hoping to study and train for veterinary medicine - the same field his grandfather was in. He came to move in with me on an emergency basis last Sat., and as far as I can discern he is depressed over this end of the realtionship and not taking the action of asking me for gas money for that week so he could report to work. He is welcome here, but I am riding him. I am trying to be objective but tonight I feel sad for our earthly family. I am sorry for any who have offended in the past but I am just just devastated for him now and rightly so. I will be firm but comforting, but how do you handle an adult son.

Tom