Hi, My name is Sally and I am new to this site. I am looking to support and answers. My husband had an affair last christmas with an ex-fiance that he had not been in contact with for 23 years. He found her on facebook and they began communicating, well, one thing led to another and he took a "trip" to visit and old Navy buddy, who turned out to be his excuse, and spent 6 days out of state with "her". Now he clains that there was no sex, but admits to "sleeping" in the same bed with her. The long and the short is I still don't believe that it was not sexual, he continues to communicate with her and I am expected to "understand" that they are "just friends" and trust that nothing will ever again happen between them, but I just can't get past it. The knowledge ( which he doesn't share) that he still communicates with her keeps the affair like it just happened, I have good days and bad, but mostly I can't find a way to forget or forgive. So how do I find my way to peace ? I just want one day that it doesn't bother me , that I can look at my husband and believe that he loves me and still wants me ?
Sally, welcome to Marriage Builders. Sorry you are here.
Your husband is still in an active affair. He is calling it a "friendship" to keep you off his back. They did sleep together when they met.
The problem is that he doesn't want to end his affair. And he won't unless something is done to stop it. We have several methods to help you stop this affair. I would ask the moderators to move this thread over to Surviving an Affair so the posters can help you. Just click on "notify" and ask the mod to move it for you.
Recovery can't begin until no-contact is established. Your husband is following the Wayward Script to the letter!
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5060_qa.htmlOnce an affair is first revealed, whether it's discovered or admitted, the victimized spouse is usually in a state of shock. The first reaction is usually panic, but it's quickly followed by anger. Divorce and sometimes even murder are contemplated. But after some time passes (usually about three weeks), most couples decide that they will try to pull together and save their marriage.
The one having an affair is in no position to bargain, but he or she usually tries anyway. The bargaining effort usually boils down to somehow keeping the lover in the loop. You'd think that the unfaithful spouse would be so aware of his or her weaknesses, and so aware of the pain inflicted, that every effort would be made to avoid further contact with the lover as an act of thoughtfulness to the stunned spouse. But instead, the unfaithful spouse argues that the relationship was "only sexual" or was "emotional but not sexual" or some other peculiar description to prove that continued contact with the lover would be okay.
Most victimized spouses intuitively understand that all contact with a lover must end for life. Permanent separation not only helps prevent a renewal of the affair, but it is also a crucial gesture of consideration to someone who has been through hell. What victimized spouse would ever want to know that his or her spouse is seeing or communicating with a former lover at work or in some other activity?
In spite of career sacrifices, friendships, and issues relating to children's schooling, I am adamant in recommending that there be no contact with a former lover for life. For many, that means a move to another state. But to do otherwise fails to recognize the nature of addiction and its cure.
Look at M.S.'s husband. Here he is, thousands of miles from his lover, and yet he still feels compelled to call her. Can you imagine the trouble M.S. would have had separating them if they had not moved? Their move was the best thing that could have happened to their marriage because it not only revealed the affair, but it also set up the conditions that would make ending it possible -- total separation.
We don't know if R.J. still sees his lover, but he says he has broken off all contact. In many cases where a person is still in town, that's hard to prove. But one thing's for sure, if he ever does see his lover, it will put him in a state of perpetual withdrawal from his addiction, and make the resolution of his marriage essentially impossible. In fact, one of the reasons he is not recovering after three months of separation may be that he is not being truthful about the separation.
How should an unfaithful spouse tell his lover that their relationship is over? If left to their own devices, many would take a Caribbean cruise to say their final good-byes. Obviously, that will not do. In fact, I recommend that the final good-bye be in the form of a letter, and not in person or even by telephone.
My advice is to write a final letter in a way that the victimized spouse would agree to send it. It should begin with a statement of how selfish it was to cause those they loved so much pain, and while marital reconciliation cannot completely repay the offense, it's the right thing to do. A statement should be made about how much the unfaithful spouse cares about his spouse and family, and for their protection, has decided to completely end the relationship with the lover. He or she has promised never to see or communicate with the lover again in life, and asks the lover to respect that promise. Nothing should be said about how much the lover will be missed. After the letter is written, the victimized spouse should read and approve it before it is sent.
Dear Sally,
You can not find peace before there will be no contact for life between affair partners. And you shouldn't. This is absolutely normal. And it is also very common that WS refuses to end contact and I guess you know pretty well, why. Why give away something "good"? Instead of it, lets try to convince others that there is no harm.
For bystanders, the excuses (like "just friends") are very lame but waywards will do anything to keep contact including making themselves complete fools for others. But for them, I guess, it is worth it.
So, how to solve that?
By making the affair more painful than the good he is getting from it. And for that, Marriage Builders give you the best tool you can get - exposure.
You see - what kind of joy is secret affair for you after everyone knows it and despise you?
And do not let them fool you - the affair is still very alive.
I hope you will read everything suggested above and move your thread to Surviving an Affair thread. You will get the best help in the world.
Sally, I read from another thread that you exposed to OW. But there is no point to expose the affair to waywards, they do already know!
Is OW married?
Exposed in an understatement, and I've actually gone head to head with the "other woman". They both claim that they are "just friends" now and she protects what they "shared" by refusing to tell me her side of what happened. So basically I just get to imagine. When I try to ask more questions I get told that they are just friends and that is all. I guess I'm supposed to be satisfied with that, but I'm not. I want to know exactly what happened, not what I can read between the lines, and I want the contact to stop ! I can't seem to get this across to either, they just think I'm being over dramatic.
Exposure isn't intended for the waywards. You didn't 'expose' anything to them - they already know they're having an A. You need to compile a list of people who can put pressure on them to end the A. Those are the exposure targets.
Sally, is the OW married?
Sally - I don't want to throw a lot of stuff at you, but I'd suggest you print off all of OW's FB contacts before you lose access to her site. The chance is good that your H will "shut down" his FB site, then put it back up after he thinks he's convinced you that he's not on there. You'll probably need those contacts for exposure.
Sally sorry you are here, and I am hoping you are following the advise that these people are saying, it is crucial for your marriage, with out it you have no marriage.
Please keep reading and posting if you have any other questions.
No the OW is not married , she is widowed, and her adult son and my husband have formed a friendship also. THis includes facebook and sending jokes over the phone. The OW had this son by a previous marriage so my husband knew him as a child.
I have all the contacts, and the phone records. I have exposed him to his family and "our" friends. Our children and their friends and family know also, even his employer knows, but it doesn't stop. I deleted her from his fb account, and blocked her from his phone, but they found a way to stay in touch. He deletes everything from fb as soon as he reads it, but he has not realized that it also records on his hotmail acct, and I check it regularly. I don't want to but I cannot stop. When confronted he pulls the "didn't I tell you" or the favorite, "I don't call her or send her a message, but if she "pops" up then I will chat with her. After all they "will always be friends" ?!
Have you read about plan B - I think it is time to prepare for that. Do not give away your source of intel (hotmail).
Did you expose to OW-s family (her son etc)?
Ow took my husband to her family, proudly annoucing that they had rekindled their love from 23 years ago, only when he was forced to back off did her family get mad at him for leading her on. But she still contacts him and he still responds, laughing and talking about the past, and talking in code, if you know what I mean.
But she still contacts him and he still responds, laughing and talking about the past, and talking in code, if you know what I mean.
Yes, I do know from personal experience what you mean.
This must stop otherwise it will destroy you. You have to demand no contact and if it still does not happen then remove yourself from the situation by plan B.
I'm sorry, the situation you are in must not last. It will lead to rekindling the full affair (if it is not already underground) or to some serious mental problems for you.
It is not normal although your WH tries to convince that all is ok and you just have to deal with it.
Please act.
Have you read "My Husband's Affair Became the Best Thing That Ever Happened to Me" by Anne, Brian & Danielle Bercht?
Anne's husband stopped the sexual side of the affair but continued to be "just friends". It leaded to ultimatum to stop contact of any kind. The ultimatum was eventually successful.
**edit***
Ow took my husband to her family, proudly annoucing that they had rekindled their love from 23 years ago, only when he was forced to back off did her family get mad at him for leading her on. But she still contacts him and he still responds, laughing and talking about the past, and talking in code, if you know what I mean.
Sally, I would plan to separate and go into Plan B. Get the book Surviving an Affair and bring yourself up to speed on the dynamics of the affair, and most especially Plan A and Plan B.
Start off by demanding that he end all contact with her and sending her a no contact letter. Tell him you are willing to stay in the marriage only if he will end contact for life and commit to a program of recovery. Otherwise, he needs to move out.
Dr Harley only recommends that women stay in Plan A for about 3 to 4 weeks because affairs are so damaging to your mental health.
What are Plan A and Plan B?
Sally,
I agree that your marriage won't have any kind of chance if your husband continues to contact or speak to the OW.....
I agree it's time to give your husband one last chance to save your marriage by committing to only you and never having contact again with the OW.....
If he continues to need her in his life in any way then he will need to move on with his life separate from you and your life.....
Tell him this is just to painful for you and that you won't accept another woman in your marriage or his life, tell him this is not love and not something that you are willing to tolerate........you wish him luck and move on with your life, go to a lawyer, set the ball rolling.....
Tell your children and family that this has been his decision and that you need to protect yourself from all the pain that this situation causes you.....
Keep yourself busy and just know you are making this decision because you really don't have a husband this way.......get the book that was suggest above and learn all you can about the marriage builders plan to save your marriage, it's tough to be strong like you need to be here, but he will do this forever if you let him, stand up for yourself........
good luck
I have all the contacts, and the phone records. I have exposed him to his family and "our" friends. Our children and their friends and family know also, even his employer knows, but it doesn't stop. I deleted her from his fb account, and blocked her from his phone, but they found a way to stay in touch. He deletes everything from fb as soon as he reads it, but he has not realized that it also records on his hotmail acct, and I check it regularly. I don't want to but I cannot stop. When confronted he pulls the "didn't I tell you" or the favorite, "I don't call her or send her a message, but if she "pops" up then I will chat with her. After all they "will always be friends" ?!
Spouses don't keep 'friends' who are a threat to their M. After D-Day I found out that a male friend of my FWH knew about the A and didn't counsel him to end it. He is no friend of our marriage. My FWH no longer speaks with him.
The least your H should agree to is to longer be in contact with someone who presents a threat to your M.
Thank you all for the support. I guess I have known all along that I need to move on. I have a hard time giving ultimatums, and I have tried to accept and believe that he can be friends with the OW, however it has never worked for me and he cannot understand why I have a hard time dealing with her. She lives in Georgia and I in Iowa. My H says that he "is here" and that should be enough to show me that he wants our marriage to work, but the reality is that he has no-where else to go and I am a whimp. The night it all finally came to a head I asked him to leave, packed his bags, asked for his wedding ring, and then felt bad because he had no where to go. I ended up letting him stay and tryed to believe that I was making too much of the whole situation. I clung to the fact that he was here and she was there and that he couldn't run to her without major upheaval to his life. That was 9 months ago, and it haasn't gotten any easier for me. The fact that he won't "let her go" cannot continue to be a part of my life. I have told him this and he just refuses to "get it". I told him last night that I was done and that I was removing myself from the equation. It upset him, and as much as I don't want my marriage to end, he won't agree to not talk to her is she contacts him. Time for this nightmare to end. Financially I have things in order, I purchased my home and it is in my name only, same with my car, bank account, and all the bills. I guess I only have to take that last and final step, I just so don't want to believe that 17 years of a good marriage can end so swiftly, but the sad reality is that his needs have always been more important than mine. I am a giver and he a taker. God help me, I never thought I would be alone at 45 years of age, I actually believed the fairy tale of growing old and sitting on the porch together watching grandchildren play in the yard, I never thought he would cheat either?! Does this ever get easier?
Sally Please do not be afraid of Plan B, yes you are separating yourself from this pain that he is giving but do not give up on the marriage.
Plan B is to only help you keep that remaining love you have for your husband.
Have you got your plan B letter done? I know there is a thread for those who needs help on a plan B letter and what to write.
Just give him the letter and have him leave.
Do not worry about him OK?
This was his choice, he could have stayed and worked on the marriage but no he decided he wanted to keep in contact with the OW, and you can not sit there and watch your marriage fall apart. You are making the best decision FOR YOU! OK?
I will try to find that thread for a sample of a plan B letter.
When are you planing on giving it to him?
Sally,
I just wanted to offer my support. I'm sorry your husband is so wayward and not even exposure could kill the affair. There is always a chance down the line your WH will wake up and realize what he has thrown away. From what I can tell, Plan B is your best option at this point. Perhaps "losing it all", the house, the family, his friends and YOU, will be enough to break through the fog. Maybe not. Be strong. Over time I believe this will get easier for you. Lean on your loved ones and come here for support. Also, read Scotland's thread. She is an EXPERT at Plan B and you may find strength there as well.
{{{{{{SallyS}}}}}}
aBetterMe
I will finish it today and have it waiting for him when he gets home from work. I coach cheerleading so I will be at football until late tonight, and have the weekend to "recover" myself before returning to work on Monday. You know I actually told him at one point that I resented the fact that his affair was something I was exposing my daughter to because I have tried to raise her to understand that she needs to be respected as a person and that she should not let some "boy" walk all over her, yet I am letting her own father do it to me and excuse it at the same time, some example huh? There are days that I actually blame myself and shoulder the responsibility for his affair, I know I was not perfect and that is a burden that I will always carry. Do they ever accept the reality of what they (wayward spouses) have done?
Do they ever accept the reality of what they (wayward spouses) have done?
They ALWAYS do, trust me, if it's not in 2 week, 2 months, it will happen in 2 years.
So no matter how long it will take them to see the reality to this it WILL happen
P.S I bumped that Plan B letter thread for you so you can read it
Thnaks, I have a big day ahead of me. Funny that I just want to go back to bed and not deal with this, but I guess I've been doing that all along, wish me the strength to follow thru.
Good Luck Sally!
We are here to help! We know you can do this, for your family! Just remember that
Sally -
We are all here rooting for you! You know and we know you are strong and capable and doing the right thing. And even if your WH never wakes up and realizes what he's done, Karma will ensure he gets his what he has given to the universe. They all do.
aBetterMe
Sally --
Your husband doesnt have a plan. He never intended to end his marriage to you. He never planned to move out.
What he wanted was the status quo. Both of you. He wanted you for all the familiar reasons. He wanted OW for the added ego strokes and excitement.
He would NEVER end it. He would try to keep the current situation for as long as possible.
Thats why he tried every tactic in the book to get you off his case. "We're just friends" "We didn't sleep together" and trying to NEGOTIATE his ongoing contact with her.
This is NOT the end of your marriage. Its the start of you respecting your own boundries and establishing new groundrules and expectations for him.
Spell out EXACTLY what it will take for you to consider continuing the marriage.
Here's a few suggestions:
No more facebook -- or a joint account only.
No contact letter to OW which YOU mail, and is content approved by you.
Open access to all accounts and full transparency.
Marriage builders coaching or weekend seminar.
Sally, ((hugs))))
I would also like to send my support to you, this is what is needed and your only hope for waking your husband up, when you aren't meeting the needs you have been, reality of what he is doing will come a real head for him.....
He will then have to decide what is more important in his life.......
Keep an open mind and just make the best life for you and your daughter, if he decides that the old life isn't for him then so be it, that will be his regret in life......
Happiness is the best way for you to move on.....you have tried but he is in the affair fog and until he makes the decision to change that you can't work on your marriage......
be strong and do what's best for you, don't worry about what he wants. He has chosen this path.......
post here to vent, cry, complain, whatever gets you through, keep busy.......
I sit here wondering where it all spiraled out of control, am I wrong about needing to know the whole truth? Do I believe he didn't sleep with her? NO but he insists otherwise, do I believe what my gut tells me or what I want to hear, and how will I ever know the truth? He lied to me about the whole thing anyway, what's to make him not continue to lie, and how will I know the truth from what I think I want to know? I can't decifer if he is being honest or not anymore? I just want to know what happened during those 6 days he spent with her. I have always believed that the best way to deal with something is straight on, but even if he chooses to "work things out", how will I know he is being honest? Do I really want the sorted details ? I feel I have a right to them. And is it fair to demand them of him as a condition to "working" to save our marriage?
I sit here wondering where it all spiraled out of control, am I wrong about needing to know the whole truth?
Do I believe he didn't sleep with her? NO but he insists otherwise, do I believe what my gut tells me or what I want to hear, and how will I ever know the truth? He lied to me about the whole thing anyway, what's to make him not continue to lie, and how will I know the truth from what I think I want to know? I can't decifer if he is being honest or not anymore? I just want to know what happened during those 6 days he spent with her. I have always believed that the best way to deal with something is straight on, but even if he chooses to "work things out", how will I know he is being honest? Do I really want the sorted details ? I feel I have a right to them. And is it fair to demand them of him as a condition to "working" to save our marriage?
Whoa whoa whoa, you are giving him the Plan B letter today?
Are you ready? Usually the BS needs a little bit of time to get everything ready so that you can go dark and, more importantly, STAY dark.
Do you have an IM (intermediary) to handle all communications between the two of you? Does your IM understand what they are supposed to be doing? (we have info here for that person) Have you thought about all the ways he may try to contact you and formulated a plan so that he won't be able to do so?
I would say go back to what Mel said...ask if he is willing to go NC and let him know if he is not he needs to go. You DO NOT tell the WS at about Plan B at this point. It's more like when his stuff is packed, you slip it into his bag or you hand it to him when he is walking out the door type of thing.
Like Plan A, Plan B is a tool that works. But you need to make sure you are using it properly. Make sure you are ready...
I just want to know what happened during those 6 days he spent with her.
We all know what happened during those 6 nights, I'm sorry but they spent every waking moment sleeping together.
Just focus on your plan B letter, start getting prepared for it, don't think about WH he is not the man you married, he is an Alien.
Sally --
Polygraph. Make it one of your requirements for him to return.
If he agrees, expect truth-vomit a day or two before the event...
There is a great letter around here called Jacob's letter which beautifully describes why you need to know. You can't go forward with a big gaping hole in your past.
Do you have an intermediary?
He is NOT allowed to contact you.
Where he goes is not your problem. Let him feel the consequences of his actions and DO NOT protect him from the fall.
Okay guys, now what? Last night he came to the football game. Guess he is figuring out that his time is limited. When we got home he claimed that he was tired and went to bed,no discussion between us, I finished watching a movie on tv and went to bed also, but woke at 2.00am to find that he was upstairs on the computer, imagine that, then this morning he left without a word, and took the keys to my daughters car ( it has been in need of minor repair for months). I told you all I was a whimp, and I really am. I know that him suddenly doing the things he should have been doing all along is nothing more than a smokescreen, and that he is avoiding the conflict, but damn it makes it hard not to want to believe that he is wanting to save this marriage. He did it to me again, I get to be the bad guy here. He is doing everyting for us ( me and the family) and I get to be the one who can;t let go of the past. HELP !
Just take two steps back and observe - does this behavior (only one day) really make all hurts go away?
Come on. You're not the bad guy, you didn't cheat.
Don't set the bar too low. You know what you need for recovery and for good marriage, do not settle for crumbs.
He is manipulating you to make you stop pestering him about OW.
Sally, did you read our posts? I thought you had a plan here. What has changed?
I know that him suddenly doing the things he should have been doing all along is nothing more than a smokescreen, and that he is avoiding the conflict, but damn it makes it hard not to want to believe that he is wanting to save this marriage. He did it to me again, I get to be the bad guy here. He is doing everyting for us ( me and the family) and I get to be the one who can;t let go of the past. HELP !
Actually, it is YOU who is avoiding conflict. What is he doing to "save this marriage?" Did he tell you the truth about his affair? Did he end all contact? I see no mention of any of that here. Fixing your DD's car and throwing you some crumbs is meaningless. It only means he senses something has changed.
But, nothing will change unless you change.
I know you are all right, and I truly do see it. Yes, I am the conflict avoider, I just don't like to fight. I know that by doing the things he did he is trying to "play" the good guy and act like he cares, and maybe he really does, but the fact is that until he stops all contact with OW I will not be able to entertain working to fix this marriage. Thanks for the support, sometimes it's nice just knowing that my head really is screwed on straight! And I appreciate the words of encouragement, they really help me to stay foccused on the big picture, I guess I just need that "smack in the face" to keep me on target, so thanks. I will keep you all informed.
Good News to all, This weekend was a true test of my ability to take control. I did it !!!!! My husband finally saw the light, not that he is happy, but is taking steps to woek with me to save this marriage. There are still points that he does not understand, but he listened and asked alot of questions, and NO I did not back down. I told him what I had to have from him starting with a no contact for life agreement. He actually wrote the letter tonight while I was at work, I approve of it and will be mailing it in the morning. I fully expect the OW to try and contact him, however she is blocked from his fb and his phone, so the next few days should be interesting. I will keep checking my sources to make sure I am on top of anything, but he did promise to tell me if she tries, and since I will already know it will be nice to know that he is not hiding things from me. Will let you all know how we are doing as things progress. Thank YOU
Good News to all, This weekend was a true test of my ability to take control. I did it !!!!! My husband finally saw the light, not that he is happy, but is taking steps to woek with me to save this marriage. There are still points that he does not understand, but he listened and asked alot of questions, and NO I did not back down. I told him what I had to have from him starting with a no contact for life agreement. He actually wrote the letter tonight while I was at work, I approve of it and will be mailing it in the morning. I fully expect the OW to try and contact him, however she is blocked from his fb and his phone, so the next few days should be interesting. I will keep checking my sources to make sure I am on top of anything, but he did promise to tell me if she tries, and since I will already know it will be nice to know that he is not hiding things from me. Will let you all know how we are doing as things progress. Thank YOU
Nice job, Sally. But awfully easy.
Watch him like a hawk. Snoop like a bloodhound. The first few days of withdrawal from the A are critical - many waywards can't tough it out and will attempt contact. Plan A & meet his needs. Make sure you're spending plenty of UA time with him.
You were right, too easy ! He admitted to just enough to try to satisfy me. The OW finally came clean and he was in a total state of shock, a little more of the picture, none of it good. I think that we, me and the OW, have finally come to terms, she felt that she was led blindly into the affair, believing that my marriage was over, can't blame her since that is what my H told her, but having the truth out seems to make it better for her and I know I needed it. Now however, my H seems to be withdrawling, it's like he still doesn't want me to know what he really did, embarrasment or guilt, or just wanting to have it all I don't know. I am treading lightly. He thinks counceling would be good for me, so that I can "forgive myself", but he doesn't seem to think he has anything to get over. he said that he was sorry, that it was a mistake, and that he is "here", so that should be the end of it. ??????????????????????? I think it's going to be a long hard road....... Sometimes I think I would have been better to have held my ground and declared it over a long time ago ! Anyone have any tips on how to get a discussion going between us that doesn't point fingers or cause hurt but lets us discuss what and why, somehow I need to know from him everything, I know he can't really explain the why, and I get that, he got "caught up" in it, but how do you find out the root cause if no-one is talking?! Any why is it so damned important to me to know what he told her? Just thinking out loud, sorry, but it seems to get more confusing all the time.
You spoke to the OW? What happened?
You were right, too easy ! He admitted to just enough to try to satisfy me. The OW finally came clean and he was in a total state of shock, a little more of the picture, none of it good. I think that we, me and the OW, have finally come to terms, she felt that she was led blindly into the affair, believing that my marriage was over, can't blame her since that is what my H told her, but having the truth out seems to make it better for her and I know I needed it. Now however, my H seems to be withdrawling, it's like he still doesn't want me to know what he really did, embarrasment or guilt, or just wanting to have it all I don't know. I am treading lightly. He thinks counceling would be good for me, so that I can "forgive myself", but he doesn't seem to think he has anything to get over. he said that he was sorry, that it was a mistake, and that he is "here", so that should be the end of it. ??????????????????????? I think it's going to be a long hard road....... Sometimes I think I would have been better to have held my ground and declared it over a long time ago ! Anyone have any tips on how to get a discussion going between us that doesn't point fingers or cause hurt but lets us discuss what and why, somehow I need to know from him everything, I know he can't really explain the why, and I get that, he got "caught up" in it, but how do you find out the root cause if no-one is talking?! Any why is it so damned important to me to know what he told her? Just thinking out loud, sorry, but it seems to get more confusing all the time.
Remember one thing: this is a marathon, not a sprint. Your WH is still deep in the fog. He is not accepting responsibility for his actions. He thinks YOU should forgive yourself???
Typical wayward words. I suspect you'll be hearing more asinine comments from him before this is over.
Okay, let me explain. I never believed that my H was in a non-sexual affair, but he always insisted. The OW would never fess up, she backed him 100%. I finally had enough and sent her a message declaring what she and my H did as a sin, ( she is very religious), I cut her to the core, which I enjoyed , and finally "pissed" her off so bad that she spilled. So now I have the truth. So I confronted my H who , and don't laugh admitted that they had sex once but he could not perform and that was it. What am I an idiot?! I had the written word in my hand and he still tried to play it off! Anyway she told me that she didn't want to tell me the truth because she felt she would be betraying him, I get that, but he still won't admit to the truth, the whole truth. I was so mad I told him that if I found out he was lying still that I would remove myself from the situation and that he would have to leave, period. I can't do this anymore, the lies just keep coming, and when he sits right there and says that he loves me and that is all that happened it makes me physically sick ! I started counceling, and yes I do need to forgive myself for mistakes I made by not fulfilling his needs, but this is a two way street and I did not cross over to another person to get attention from, or have sex with.When we talk it always seems that I am the one explaining what I need, and of course he agrees, and I know that he feels bad, but shouldn't he be able to tell me what he needs? Shouldn;t he be able to admit the truth if he wants to save this marriage? I know the truth now, so open up and lets get thru this, but nope, more lies, half thruths,and support for "my" problems. I swear I can't keep this up. I never know the next move until it happens, and by the way I blocked his phone so no phone calls between them and told the OW that the declaration was for life, she asked me to let him know that she was sorry but she had to let it all go herself, I of course wont pass that on but instead will make sure that he knows he is responsible for destroying two lives not just one.Anyone want a used H with issues, I might just be giving mine away?!
Sally, go look up polygraph testers and make an appointment for him.
Then tell your H that you are going to give him an opportunity to clear his good name by passing a polygraph.
If he passes it you will go forward with the marriage, but that is the only way you will consider a future with him because recovery is impossible unless he is truthful.
Tell him he has up until the polygraph to get the truth out there but if he fails it, the marriage can't go forward.
p.s. I would make up a list of questions you plan on giving to the polygrapher and give that list to your H beforehand. Have him answer the questions beforehand. Then you can see if his answers are truthful in the polygraph test.
What will likely happen is he spills his guts before the test. If he does that, I would still insist he take the polygraph.
Welcome to MB Sally.
You sound like somebody I'd get along with and I have a bit of truth to tell you about how these ws are.
First of all STICK to a plan. Either plan A or plan B. Do you know the carrot and stick of plan A/B? Search it here on this site and it's an easy one to find. You need to implement a plan, don't fly blind, and don't keep doing what you're doing because it is not going to get you where you need to be.
I have an ex H who had an ema with a woman from my hometown, and even after we moved and a false recovery of a whole year, she resurfaced and it went further.
You will first of all never get the truth from an ow. I know that 100 percent. What does a wayward do..answer? LIE. Your H is not and will not ever as long as he is a WS (he is one now ok) ever tell the truth so quit making him try. No need for any lie detector, as GOOD liars can pass em'. My ex could I can tell you.
Three words for you. Keylogger. Private Eye. If you want to see what they're really saying online get a stealth keylogger installed ok? And if there could be possible physical contact in any form at all, hire a p.i. I found out all I ever needed to know in 5 hours of work from a good private eye. Everything.
While mine wasn't saved, I owe MB for me being able to save my future and that of my child. We are a success, and I remarried in july and we're beyond thrilled.
Here's what I'd like to tell you also. After a year or two being divorced I found my old college bf. We dated a while and it got complicated. Similar situation as your WH is in, except my then boyfriend was of course, single. But he had a past with me, as your H has a past with this horrible ow. That is something that can never be allowed to happen. I know how easy it was for me to date my old college (of course single) boyfriend, and how it might have been easy for your WH to rekindle feelings for her. This being said, he must have NO CONTACT FOR LIFE with her for your marriage to ever recover.
Just like I'd never have contact with an ex boyfriend see? The past is a powerful feeling..all that nostalgia or good feelings. But it's the past and it's the past for a reason and your WH hasn't remembered that part.
He has to have motivation to END this ema. And by you not pulling the full plan A/B trigger with everything you have, you're enabling this stupid affair of his to limp on. While there may have been some discovery and a few phone calls exchanged, it's not dead yet by far. In fact many here will attest (me too) that sometimes an affair can go further underground in some cases. He HAS to want to end everything and want to live a totally transparent life and HE has to realize HE IS THE PROBLEM here, not you. Has to want to get help.
Btw, I was a cheer coach in college and did for many years...and I live in GA so if you want me to smackdown that crazy ow, lemme know! lol! I can call her and give her a "cheer" she'd never forget! lol!
Never underestimate the ow. And know she will lie and most likely DID lie to you. The marriage will only heal when the WS commits to the recovery and goes along with each and every piece of the recovery puzzle, which includes 100 percent transparency.
Let your WH know that if he doesn't change, he has a predictable future with the ow. My ex? He's getting a divorce now from the ex ow (his wife). In the process, he cheated more and more on the affair wife and lost almost everything he has in the process. Needless to say I have 100 percent custody and even supervised visitation as a parent. The long term for waywards who never see the light is bleak. Very very sad and bleak. In fact rather hopeless.
However, I have a few friends here who can attest to the way a marriage CAN be healed and recovered if the MB plan is correctly implemented and followed. It's such a blessing to see that!
But the bottom line is this. No matter what happens in the end, I became a better person and mom having gone thru this and followed marriage builders and its theories. You'll end up a winner no matter the outcome.
Wish you well, get on having a REAL PLAN, and know that if you need ow smackdown in GA lemme know! lol!
Oh..my ex H had a polygraph test regarding a legal situation he found himself in last year. He PASSED it.
Imho, a good and accomplished liar can pass those like a kindergarten admissions test.
Focus on what works. Having a plan A or plan B. Knowing which plan you need to be in. And finally EXECUTING A FLAWLESS plan A or B.
and yes I do need to forgive myself for mistakes I made by not fulfilling his needs, but this is a two way street and I did not cross over to another person to get attention from, or have sex with.When we talk it always seems that I am the one explaining what I need, and of course he agrees, and I know that he feels bad, but shouldn't he be able to tell me what he needs? Shouldn;t he be able to admit the truth if he wants to save this marriage? I know the truth now, so open up and lets get thru this, but nope, more lies, half thruths,and support for "my" problems. I swear I can't keep this up.
You need to change your attitude. Look at the parts of your post that I italicized. First, you don't need to 'forgive yourself' of anything. Okay, maybe you need to look again at how you approached your M. But
forgive yourself? No.
Second, don't let him blameshift by indicating that YOU have problems that led him to jump in bed with another woman. There ARE no 'problems' that you would have that would cause that. Screwing a woman is a
choice a man makes, exclusive of what else is going on in his life.
People make a choice every day which road to travel. Will it be cheerios or corn flakes in the morning? Caf or decaf? You have a choice each day.
Your WH chose WRONG. There is no excuse to cheat. If life were soooo bad at home, he would have said (real man that is) "honey, we need to talk. I feel like x (fill it in) and we need to do something b/c I am unhappy now in our M."
But most WS do NOT do that do they? Not the ones they see here. Neer is there a warning shot fired.
It usually is a weakness or a chink in some armor that makes them weak on one level or another morally and then if it's pleasureable for them, or a diversion from the reality of day to day living, and there is any payoff on any level from the initial contact with the other person to be, then it continues.
It's not your fault. He had a choice and he chose wrong. YOU do not pay for HIS problem. Were it your fault, odds are he might have spoken up and asked to get help.
My life with my ex was fine. Normal and fine. We were even trying for another baby and had built a dream home over a half million bucks. Perfect? No but nobody has a perfect life. He had every reason to stay married but felt ENTITLED for his ons which led to a pa and ultimately a D. He felt ENTITLED to his affair happiness because in his foggy mind he sacrificed each day for us working soooo hard.
See? I could have been a perfect stepford wife and he would have found fault. Remember...even gorgeous gravity-defying supermodels get cheated on for no reason (Christy Brinkley). You're in good company. Now him? Your WH? NOT
Just to let you know that a couple of months ago I would have sent you to her house for a "smackdown", but since I last posted things became even stranger than I thought they could. I called the OW and we had a three hour talk about my H, she just moved to a new town leaving her son the home she shared with her deceased husband, and she had some not to pleasant things to say about my H. Yes he lied to her also, imagine that ! I told her that I had blocked her from his phone and offered to re-enstate the conection as I was at the I don't give a crap stage, but she said that she never wanted to hear from him again ?! She deleted him from facebook and, well it was interesting. Do I believe I got the whole truth? You bet, I even know the intimate details ! Not really sure I wanted them but I had to know. And then I went after my H, everytime he tried to lie I was able to "nail" him to the wall !!!!!! Today he is still in our home, and walking on eggshells as they say. He has gone to counceling with me and actually paid attention and said that he wants our marriage to work, so we are going to try. He still hasn't given a reason for all the lies, he says he "can't explain it, but he does understand my feelings of mistrust and anger. I guess we will see what happens, I havn't let my guard down, I still check phone records and e-mail daily, and my spy at his job is doing the same. Wish me luck as I travel down this road, I know that things will never be the same but I want to invite him back into our bed and believe that he is there because he only wants to be with me, I can't tell you when that might happen, but I hope we finally get to that place. Thanks for all the advise and encouragment, it was everything I needed at a terrible point in my life that I didn't think anyone undertood. I will keep in touch - Sally