Hi Everyone,

I am the person who has broken our relationship, I am the one who had an affair.

My husband and I have been married for only 11 months, though together for 6 years in total, and I had an affair with two colleagues from work. Both were at the same time, and lasted around a month. My Husband found out on Saturday by reading messags on my phone.

On Saturday we had the obligitary arguments, he shouted at me more than he ever had before, and I begged and pleaded for him not to leave me, and since then he has been staying with friends.

He has agreed to speak to me (face to face) every day so far, and with every day things start to look a lot more sense. We have looked at what was wrong with our relationship and how things will need to change if we are to try and work this out, and although obviously there has been a huge amount of discussion about trust and fidelity, we have also talked about alot of the smaller things that will also need to change.

Both separately have been reading on the internet to find advice and guidance on where to go from here, as well as a realistic look at what we can expect if we decide to work on things. We have agreed to go to couples counselling, and I am also going to seek referral for my own counselling to look at some of my own issues that caused this.

My husband found this website, and has posted a thread here: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2477130#Post2477130 and he pointed me here and I have come hoping that together with your help and advice we can work through what we need to do.

I don't feel comfortable going into the reasons that the affair happened as I feel like i'm making excuses where I know there are none, but I know that you are going to need to know to be able to offer advice, so here is the story from my side.

I have found that when I am low, I seek attention. I don't think that this is uncommon, but for myself this last few months I have saught attention from other men, and this is where the problem lies.

My husband and I have had a difficult time of late, and although we had discussed it and were working on resolving the issues, I found it difficult to get what I needed and found it more difficult to communicate that to my husband, which I think fundamentally is where my issues lie.

So I sought attention from other men, and these have been men at work. I only flirted at first, and while they were flirting back it felt good, then suggestions were made and things started to go too far. Flirts became more sexual, and eventually physical without me knowing how to stop them. Most of the articles and threads I have read on the internet have been people having affairs either because they have fallen in love with another person, or because the sex life had become stale in there marriage. Neither of these are the case in our scenario, and it was more a case of needing attention and only knowing of one way to get that.

Throughout our relationship (5 years prior then 11 months of marriage) I have never done anything like this before. There have been people who I have flirted with, but I have never felt the need or desire to take it further, or make it regular (and I think that's where the line is drawn - an occasional flirt is ok, but constant flirting with the same person is not).

I have hurt my husband more than I ever thought possible, and I have managed to break my own heart. I feel sick every time I think about what I have done, and I do not know how to deal with what I'm feeling, because although I hurt more than I ever thought I could or would, I feel as though I am not allowed to or don't deserve to, because I caused all of this. I feel like any pain I have is belittling to my husbands feelings, and so I don't know how to explain to him what's going on.

Of the things that he and I have discussed I need to do, there are 2 that I am trying to constantly but do not know how to. One is to prove that I love him, and the other is to prove that I will never do this again. And although both of these are the case, proving them is proving difficult.

So what am I doing to make it right? well firstly I have booked an appointment with a couples counsellor, and I am when the doctors open going to try to get an appointment to sort out my own personal issues (primarily depression and low self esteem) hopefully in the form of counselling too, but I will see what the doctors suggests.

I have also started to change the smaller things. The more my husband and I talked the more it became apparent that there are many more things I have done to prevent our marriage becoming a healthy one, things like not pulling my weight around the house, not allowingequal say in major decisions etc, and I am working on those.

As for the affair and the situation now, I have ensured both people know what is going on at home, and that I am fighting to save my marriage. I have taken some time off work, though as much because I am uncapable of working right now anyway than anything else. I have applied for new jobs, and have spoken about leaving before I find something else, but my husband and I have agreed that this would make things difficult financially and would not be a good idea.

When I return to work, I am hoping to agree with my line manager the possibility of working from home for short periods. Fortunately due to the work I do, the other men are not in the office that often, so I can hopefully tie my work at home days to days when they are in, and with any luck a new job will come up soon.

In the mean time, your advice on any ways that my husband and I can move forward are greatly appreciated.

Hi MrsBHunt, welcome to Marriage Builders. You might want to cut that post back to about 3 paragraphs. People don't have the time to read through a novel. No one needs that much information.

The only thing I see that is wrong in your relationship is that you are not committed to this marriage and have very, very poor boundaries around men. I will tell you why you had the affair and save you the money for counseling: you have poor boundaries.


None of this will make it right. What will make it right is to make just compensation to your husband. Start by affair proofing your marriage by establishing appropriate boundaries around men and living a completely transparent life. End all opposite sex friendships and delete your facebook page. If you conducted your affairs on the internet, I would stay off the computer unless your H is with you. Exchange cell phones with him.

The next step would be to send a no contact letter to your adultery partners that is written by you and sent by your H. Additionally, if your adultery partners were married, your H should contact their wives so they can protect themselves and their children from you.

Frankly, if this were my son - and he is 28 yrs old - I would be using my powers of persuasion to influence him to leave you. Two affairs in 11 months of marriage reflects some serious problems.

As far as your reputation at work, you do realize your reputation is ruined there, right? Do you know what other employees say about you?

MrsBH,

Welcome to Marriage builders. There is soooo much to tell you. But, the first thing you MUST do is ensure that you have no contact with those men.

Next, let me recommend that you read the articles on this site. I have an order in mind and I will tell you way. Dr. Harley has an article on the four rules for a good marriage. Find those and read them. If/when you and your H have put those rules in place your marriage will become much better. Sounds simple right? Well...it is and it isn't.

Next read his articles on NEEDS, you both need to understand your own needs and each others.

After that read the articles on love busters, this will show you how to interact in a more positive way by avoiding the negative interactions.

finally read about Harley's two polices: The policy of radical honesty and the policy of joint agreement, POJA. ONce you two have implemented those policies you will find that your communications will greatly improve. They are not easy but they are essential.

I will tell you that your H meeting or NOT meeting your needs is not why you had the affair. YOu had the affair because you wanted to, and because you have few if any coping tools at your disposal. There are much healthier and productive ways to handle issues in a marriage than by seeking out other men and having affairs. I suspect you actually know that.

You will find that this site and Dr. Harley are big on plans. You need to set goals, then develop plans to meet them, and this includes checkpoints, milestones, and assessment points. As you read the articles I believe you will begin to see how to construct those plans and the folks here will gladly help you.

It will take awhile for your H to heal from what you have done. It will take awhile for YOU to heal from this as well. Please use time and patience on this process. Have patience with your H and patience with yourself and give this time. Recovery of a mariage is a process, it is not magic. Expect for it to take roughly two years to fully heal your marriage, if not longer. That does not mean that you or your H will feel as you do right now, you both will be on an emotional rollercoaster for at least 6 months if not more. Expect it, and deal with it.

You two can heal your marriage and make it better, but it takes work, time, patience and kindness toward one another.

Others will post more.

God Bless,

JL

I work with all men. Many of them are my friends and collegues and have been for years. Do you have any idea what these guys say about you behind your back?

I do.

Wanna know?

Thanks JL,

my H has sent me a link to a few articles he has found helpful, and i will read the ones that you have suggested too.

I wish there was a way to read some books and pass a test to save my marriage, but I know that there will be so much more work involved than that. But when it comes down to it, and I think about the last 6 years I believe that it is worth it.

It's good to hear mention of timescales too, it is one of the things H and I have talked about, trying to work out what we can expect, and I (and I think he too) have mentioned a year of emotional hell, and from what you have said that sounds realistic, which is great to know.

Thanks again

I know that's the case, and I have come to terms with that. I have also explained the situation to female friends and family both of whom pretty much say the same. In fact in my experience it is women who are most judgemental.

I think I have come to terms with the fact that I am going to be judged for the rest of my life, but my hope lies in the fact that the people who know me best know that this is not who I am, atleast not in entirity. And honestly there is only one opinion that matters to me and that is my Hs, and I think that although he doesn't understand and hates that part of me, he knows that there is so much more to me than that, and that I hate that part of me too and with help and work and determination I can change it.

Those are nice words, but talk is cheap unless and until it is backed up by action. I hope you do back up your talk and stop behaving so promiscuously. Only time will tell.

I agree your H's opinion counts, but if you expect to have a career, the "opinion" of your peers and the management team counts very much. Promiscuous women don't get promoted. Nor are they respected in the workplace. If you want to make it in this world you had better care about your reputation at work or you will never be more than a laughing stock.


Men are very judgmental about promiscuous women and you are very naive if you don't know this. A few years back there was a young woman at our company who supposedly gave a driver a blow job in his car in the parking lot. I don't know what really happened, but I suspect something DID happen and she became a laughing stock at work. What was noticable is that she behaved very unprofessionally around men [a flirt] and everyone talked about it.

The men were laughing behind her back and told the rest of the women not to "use the bathroom after her" because she probably had cooties.

The men characterized her as an STD ho behind her back and made terrible jokes at her expense. I hope you understand this is how you are viewed at work. These men you shagged have absolutely no respect for you and I ASSURE you they say very unflattering things behind your back.

p.s. have you been tested for STDs? What about pregnancy? Did you use protection? Is there any possibility you are pregnant by one of these losers?

As a BS, I would offer that you quit your job tomorrow effective immediately. Every time you go to work, your husband will probably be wondering if you're going to slip and he just doesn't need that right now. Too, every time you see one of those men it'll be a trigger in your mind and reset your clock.

Sure, finances will be rough until you find another job but this, I think, is your husband's reality and you need to protect him now. Talk it over with him.

Oh, and good job on coming here and posting. You'll get a lot of help and there are a lot of good people here.

Hello MrsBH,

I noted where you mentioned that you were seeking attention and admiration from the OM and that you did not love them.

Mrs.Flint was attracted to my ex-brother for the same reason...empty compliments, comisserating about no one understanding them and occasional sexual contacts to keep each other interested...

It had nothing to do with me and I don't think it has to do with your H either, does it?

It was unmet EN's, nonexistent boundaries with men and not knowing how to have the EN's met in the M was the reason, wasn't it?

If you get a chance read my thread at the bottom signature line and see if any of what Mrs.Flint was doing sounds familiar.

We saved our M with the help here and so can you.

God bless.

Jim

As far as ways to back up what I say goes, as you say only time will tell, but I know in my own mind that whether H decides he can trust me again and rebuild our relationship, or not, I was to sort out my problems and I want to be a better person. I wish there was something I could do now to prove my intentions, and anything I think of I am doing, but I think I just need to spend the rest of my life proving it.

As for work, I'm currently quite highly thought of, and in the 3 years I have been with the company have progressed immensely. I think it is unlikely that the men are talking behind my back, at the moment, thought they may when I leave. That doesn't really matter to me though, as my husband and I had talked of other career plans for me anyway (thats irrelevant for here so i'll leave it out).

As for the STD's, I have been check before, and only had sex with one of the men, and only once, and with protection so I believe that I would not have an STD, though as I am going to the docs this week anyway I might mention it and see what they think. And I know that I am not pregnant due to the time that has passed since the affaire.

Jim, thank you so much for your comments, you're right this is all about my own boudaries and EN, and not to do with H. I'm really glad to hear that you managed to sort things out and it gives me hope that we can too.

I'm heading over to your thread now!

Be assured that managers don't promote promiscuous women. They can't be trusted and are not respected. If you are "highly thought of" by anyone there it is only because they don't know - YET - how unprofessional you really are. It just doesn't get any more unprofessional than that. [unless you work for a strip club or massage parlor] Since loose women are not respected they obviously can't manage others. Most companies fire workplace adulterers because they are so unprofessional and can't be trusted. They are loose cannons in the workplace and companies strive to rid their ranks of this type.

I am sure you want to believe the men are not talking about you and I can understand that wishful thinking. But think about that for a minute. Why would they not? Because they respect you? You already know they don't respect you or they wouldn't have had sex with you. The fact that they had sex with you was the greatest insult and a demonstration of disrespect. They as much as spit in your face.


Have you been checked since you did your coworker? Because if you havent' you would be putting your H at risk of getting an STD.

Are either of your adultery partners married?

The reason I think they are not talking about me is that I think neither want to be associated with this. Both I think are ashamed of what has happened, both for different reasons I think, but I don't think either think of this as something worth bragging about, but as I said, I am leaving the company anyway and am sure that it will not affect my next job in the same was it has not affected any job I have done before - and if it does I will work in a lower paid job until my own plans come together. Work prospects aren't really something I am worried about at the moment.




No i haven't. As I mentioned, the one time I had sex it was with a condom, and other contact was not something that would result in STD. Though as I am going to the doctors this week anyway I will mention it to a professional and see if they think there is any chance I could have contracted anything.

Neither are married or in other relationships.

You're 24 years old. It's probably not that uncommon for someone your age.
You've been with your husband since you were 18 years old.
Grown up, mature women have a greater capacity for self affirmation, and need less outside/other affirmation.

Your basic "problem" is immaturity. IMO.
This is not a disparaging remark about you personally, but a general observation about your stage in life.

You need to grow up.
Literally.
In the meanwhile.... something to think about.

What attributes do you want to be known for as a grown, mature woman? (when you get there)

Think about it.

MrsBH,
You mentioned that you are seeking couples counseling and individual counseling. Before you decide on who please take the time to read the article here on Choosing a counselor. Most marriage counselors have no idea how to address and help correct the issues you and your BH are faced with. I would also suggest that if you counsel with anybody in the next few days it be one of the Harleys. I have counseled with Jennifer Chalmers and she really knows what she's doing.

As a FWW let me pare down your thoughts for you. These are the only things you need to focus on right now:

YOU are 100% responsible for your A's...not your shaky M, not your self-esteem issues, not your tendency to "seek out male attention." We all have hangups. YOU made the choice, and that is where the buck stops.

From this moment forward, you cannot have contact with these OM....ever. That means you aren't just taking time off from work. You are finding a new job.

Your DH is in the trauma unit of the marital hospital. Dissecting all your marital issues and "what has to change if this is going to work" is not appropriate for trauma; that's physical therapy. Your job is to help him heal and help him feel safe in the M. Period.

I hear a lot of pop-psychology and justifying and "I'm not really all that bad" in your posts. I advise reading Surviving An Affair. It will help remove the scales from your eyes.

Oh, and I don't care if you used a condom or if it's embarrassing to tell your doctor. Get tested.

I'll let the ladies wield the sticks here.

Now, I don't know if you have read any of the articles here, so I am going to start giving you homework.

The FIRST thing you need to do, is stop interacting with other men, PERIOD. No long conversations at work, no breaks or lunches together, NO TIME ALONE WITH ANY MAN WHO IS NOT YOUR HUSBAND (or your own father/brother/son).

Pep is right, you are very immature, and you are walking around with your head in your cooter - thinking that men flirting with a married woman is anything other than calling her a wh*re is deficient thinking. All they are saying is; I know that you are married, but I think that you are easy, and I can get you to sleep with me anyway - besides, if I can get sex from you and NOT have to pay your bills or take care of you? BONUS!


http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8119_friends.html


http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5059_qa.html


http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5024b_qa.html


Right now, this is YOU. It will do you no harm to adopt this.

I would also advise your BH to look into having a post-nup drawn up, and have you put your money where your mouth is.

My Dear Girl ...

I have 2 kids. (24 & 21)
MrsH, I must pull rank on you .... just a little.


Love is proven with day to day actions.
But mostly, Love (with a capital L) is in the day to day attitude behind the actions.
There is a difference.
Love is tightly bound to empathy and respect.
What good is an "I love you" without respect?
Love without empathy eventually ends up sounding like:
"I love you, but .... *enter excuse to hurt him*."

So, I recommend you think about your attitude.
Think about empathy.
And, finally, think about respect.
More on respect in a moment.




No one knows that.
Not even you.
It's like alcohol recovery, yanno?
Proof is daily actions & attitude.
One Day At A Time.



Actually, it's not difficult to prove at all.
It requires complete and joyful transparency on your part.
Be happily transparent.

What you are really talking about is it is difficult for the man you willingly hurt to be comfortable with you.

Time & patience.
No magic words other than the following:

"I will do whatever it takes for as long as it takes to make this right."

The "as long as it takes" is where you trip up, I think.
It means exactly what it means.
You do not get to decide the "as long as" part.

So, relax about this one.
Don't sweat it.
Just do what you know you need to do, and keep doing it.
Forget about measuring his trust of you.
That is not your job.

You don't like seeing your husband so hurt.
It really bothers you.
Too bad.
This is exactly where the "as long as it takes" becomes action, not well-intended bullchit words.

OK?


I am a now retired RNP, who for 30 years saw young women such as yourself come in with "low self esteem".
I call bullchit on this one.

Self esteem is an earned state of mind.
It is not pharmaceutically achievable.
No one can hand self esteem over to you.
Remember how you said you went outside your marriage looking for attention? Affirmation?

Same thing here.
Self esteem is an inside job.

Once you become a woman you admire without the approval from others, you *magically* have self esteem because you have been doing things that earn YOUR admiration.

Remember when I said "more on respect"?
Well, here it is.

Forget the psychobabble term "self esteem".
Rely instead on the term "self respect".

I think you will get more traction that way.

Hoping you take all of this in the motherly way it is intended.
If not, no dessert for YOU, young lady!

HHH !!!



I did not say "very".
I think her immaturity is partly age related, completely out of her control.
And, immaturity partly related to her being with one man since age 18.
There was no time on her own without a man.
A developing woman needs time to rely on herself in order to mature, IMO.


I disagree.
I do not see this as an "over active cooter" issue.

What has not been mentioned, and I suspect is very important here, is the problem of curiosity.

As in:
"I wonder what it would be like to be with another man other than the man I've been with since age 18."

A completely age appropriate, albeit immature, way of looking at things.

The cooter comment was good for a chuckle, but I don't think it's actually relevant.
What do I know?
I was a 24 year old woman once.
A bazillion years ago.

Advice:

BUY THIS BOOK *link*

Read it aloud, taking turns WITH your husband.
One chapter every few days.
Discuss as you go along.

Your M is salvageable.
Do the work.

A bazillion-and-a-half.

Though, Pep, I believe that were you to wrap that "curiosity" issue back around to MB, what we are going to acknowledge is that the curiosity was built by inappropriate behavior with male co-workers - the lack of boundaries.

*edit*
I have had the curiosity about other women previously in my life, but it was my lack of boundaries - letting the conversation get too personal, too lose - that lead that draw to develop. In my case, I told my FWW that I realized that I could, indeed, fall into an affair if I were in the wrong situation. I did that at about the same age as this young lady. It wasn't that I had never been with anyone other than my FWW (met at 17, married at 21), but the fact that I let women at work get to close to me. I let that continue for some time, but never; called, texted, emailed, or spent time alone in a "private" space - and all of that was intentional. It was a dangerous game.

*/edit*

"What would it be like to x/y/z with OM/OW" is a natural consequence (in a coworker situation) of spending too much of a work day having personal and/or intimate conversation with coworkers of the opposite sex. That consequence is partially driven by age and experience, but more heavily driven by...?

Boundaries.


The placement of this young lady's cranium is really only relevant to her overindulgence in male attention.

Curiosity is just there.
I think curiosity is innately human.
Just observe little kids in their natural state. (when they don't think others are watching)
But, you are right, the lack of boundaries gives curiosity opportunity for serious mischief.

Let's talk about other boundaries. Not sex, for a moment.

Some person, early 20's, might have a mild curiosity about smoking pot.
That curiosity about "what it feels like", just lies dormant for a long time, until an opportunity arrises.
Here is where you are more than correct, HHH.
Without a strict "no drugs" policy (a firm boundary if you will), there will probably be pot experimentation.


Everyone of us is curious about some experience we never tried.

We (H and I) try to talk our kids out of a variety of experiences for curiosity's sake Even the experiences I had myself.
Maybe those most of all

You are getting some great advice and posts by some of the most esteemed vets on this forum and for that you are lucky.

I noticed something in one of your posts. You said that you believe that it is OKAY to flirt with other men. You used this in the PRESENT tense.

Here is the quote from your first post
On occasional flirt is NOT okay. This is a boundary you are going to need to put up PRONTO.

Read all of the articles and concepts that are contained n this site and read SAA, along with other books. Learn what you can, ask questions here and POST OFTEN.

Let the people on this site guide you to where you need to be. When something they say offends you, look into WHY? Have they touched a nerve? Read the posts more than once, you may be surprised what you will learn.

As you read more on here you will realize how WRONG this statement is.

Flirting is a way of 'testing the water' and signaling to another person your sexual interest. Every single affair starts with poor boundaries and flirting!!!

Given your history, need for male attention and poor boundaries, it will be vital for you to understand how dangerous flirting really is so you can put an end to it at once.

Here is Anatomy of Adultery - How it starts.

Flirt with your husband.
Him, and him alone.


No.

Crikey I need to learn to not step away from my thread when you american's wake up! There's been some great advise in the last couple of pages, and I'm really thankful for that.

I was worried that coming here as a cheating wife I would just get flames, and I'm so glad that's not been the case.

- pepperband I think you�re my new favourite!

You�re right, immaturity has been one of the words BH and I have used too, and I think not just in terms of the attention seeking and affair, but other simple aspects of our marriage such as house work and finances. Though one thing is for sure, going through something as painful as this certainly opens your eyes to consequence and what�s really important in life. I hope that I will mature as a result of this, and I feel as though I already have.

As for what I want to be when I am a fully grown woman, this is also something BH and I have talked about (good to know we�re on the right track!), not specifics as I think I need time to think about what I want to be, but we have said that who I end up being will be largely dictated by who I want to be, and we both agree I don�t want to be who I am right now.

Generally comments for everyone!

Re work (and seeing the OM), I have suggested handing in my notice, on multiple occasions, but each time BH and I talk about it we agree that the financial strain if I lost my job would put too much pressure on us. We would lose our house. I am however looking for another job, have applied for some and have an appointment to speak with an agent on Friday.

Re reading up. I have read a large number of articles and threads on here and other websites, some more useful than others, and BH has purchased the book for us to read through together. I also saw another book by our counselling service today but we are waiting for Surviving an Affair to arrive to make sure it�s not the same thing twice.

Also re being offended - I was a more than a little worried about coming on here, specially when I saw some of the posts in BHs thread, as I thought it might be a bit of a flaming session, but i'm really glad to see that everyones posts have been constructive. Obviously there are some that are harder to read than others, and I've been frustrated by some, but all in all it's been great to hear both sides.

In my early twenties a female manager at work went through a divorce and suddenly started wearing low-cut blouses and undergarments that emphasized her bosom and acting flirty toward several of us twenty-something males. She was in her forties or so.

We were not impressed, let me tell you. It was discussed.

Extremely unbecoming for a manager to act that way toward lower-level workers. In fact in retrospect that was probably grounds for a sexual harassment complaint.

Mrs.BHunt,

One reason you are probably not feeling flamed is because you actually seem to be listening.

It's funny, you are thankful and encouraged....and then a justifying WS comes and thinks the same advice is "mean."

Keep being honest, give your DH time time time and empathy. Follow the good advice you are getting.

Thanks Tawandabelle, I guess I just want as much help as possible!!

Speaking of help, I've been drafting my letter of NC, but I'm not really sure how much it's supposed to say - is it supposed to be polite? ask them to respect our decision or tell them to F off? do I go into detail? or is it as simple as "leave me alone now"

at the moment, it is as follows (names removed):


edit to add - BH is going to have a look at this tonight too, I have text him it but he is out at the moment and I am keen to hear your opinions?

I would leave out all the stuff about your DH not being sure. I would tell him that you have realized that the choice to have an A was absolutely wrong, and then pick up with the no more texts, etc. sentence.

I hate to say this, but I am a newlywed and a former bw (divorced b/c of my xh's narcissism and his repeated affairs) and I do not buy your excuse Mrs. B Hunt, of simply saying "you don't know how to stop" and that if my dh of six months had done this to me, there would be either a quickie divorce or an annulment.

You like attention. And you also damn well know how to stop flirting. I was a single gal for seven years, and know myself, that if you keep your pants up and your dress down you won't get into any trouble. Compound your cheating, with your cheating AT WORK, and you may get fired too.

Sorry, but in this case, with the time being married here being less than one year and this rampant cheating going on, my thoughts are your H moves on and finds somebody who has good boundaries, believes in fidelity, and doesn't think that flirting when married (or even when in a relationship with somebody else) is a good thing.

Usually I'm 100 percent on board with the "lets work this out" and never say this, but seriously, as a newlywed myself, knowing that less than one year of marriage my partner was NOT ONLY cheating blatantly with the opposite sex, but having sex with MULTIPLE partners, his butt would be out the door and I'd have him served the next business day the law office is opened for business.

Never took you for a closet humanist, Pep!



But, that's pretty much it. It's not enough to just leave something at curiosity - keep sniffing the chocolate bar, and soon enough you are going to take a bite. Best bet is to just stay the he77 away.


Oh, you will slip. Just keep in mind that it's loving correction and not pure, gleeful abuse at your cost.


Until the books arrive, I suggest you two read the 4 part "Coping With Infidelity" Q&A articles.

Geez. Everybody has curiosity. But ACTING on it is what separates those mature vs. those who are immature.

Marriage is for those who are mature, understand that love is fluid, and that marriage has to be WORKED at, it will not always exist in the original super-heightened extasy state forever, but that it is wonderful, when treated as a priority and a SOLEMN vow. YOU give the MARRIAGE attention and it will remain loving and something you both treasure.

There are really attractive guys around me in this city. I work with a few really cute physicians too, but I RESPECT my dh and our marriage, and I don't even try to ever cross a line. Not at all. I VALUE my marriage, LOVE and RESPECT my H too much, and also know that "OTJ" relationships don't work.

If there are no children, a very short time married, and already MORE THAN ONE affair partner before the first wedding anniversary, I simply do not think the future bodes well for Mrs. Hunts' relationship.

We have our first counselling appointment tonight, and it leads me to wondering what I have done.

Not what have I done wrong, by god do I know that! but what have I done since, to make it better.. have I really done anything?? Apart from keep the house tidy, get on anti depressants, sort my finance out and read a hell of a lot about what I need to do in future.. I don't know if I've done as much as I should have.

I've struggled with knowing what to do or say. I'm hurting, but he's hurting more, and it's my fault, so do I show that I'm hurting, or step back and hide that side of me. I desparately want him to come home, but I know he needs to be away for a while to work out what he wants.. so do I just wait for him?

I know I need to give him time, and I know that the amount of time depends entirely on him, but what do I do in the mean time except wait? I feel like I should be doing more, but I don't know what that more should be!

I wrote him a letter today to try and put some things down, but the more i re read it, the more it sounds so selfish, it's all about me and what i'm going to do and how i want to change.. and although this is my fault, surely this time should be about him.. do I hold off, give it him at a later date, when he's made his final decision? or will giving him it HELP him make his final decision.

today is a bad day

Hello MrsBH,

Why don't you start with letting us take a look at the letter and go from there...

It's really important to set the tone of what your BH can expect from you from this point forward in a positive way and avoid giving him any hint that it is still about you and your pain.

I know you would not do that intentionally but it could to him while he is so vulnerable.

Right now you want him to know it's about him...

and you trying to help him.

Jim

As a BS, I can say that I would have appreciated seeing a little remorse. Not that I wanted to rub it in my wife's face (well, sometimes I did ) but just to receive some empathy would have been nice.

So, no, don't hide your feelings. Isn't that how you got in this mess to begin with? I would caution that you don't portray yourself as a victim when speaking with your husband. Not that you would intentionally do it, or consider yourself to be the victim here, but sometimes we all get into the pity-party or "woe-is-me" mode.

Jim - as BH is a member here I can't really post the letter up until he has read it.. so i guess i'm still stuck!

Thanks Northwood, I think I am struggling to hide how upset I am anyway, so hopefully showing a remorse wont be too difficult, and I am trying to be very concious of the victim thing, particularly as my husband worries alot about my mental health and I don't want to worry him as much as anything else.

Well, think about this for a second; if your husband had hurt and betrayed you horribly, would you want him to smile all the time, like what he did wasn't a big deal, or would you want to know that he has remorse - that doing what he has done - to you - actually affects him, too?

At times, I almost believe that FWW hurts more about all of this business than I do.

I can tell you that at times, the tears aren't going to do much. He may be cold to your pain at times - but that is because he stands there and knows that YOU CHOSE THIS. He did not.

Some of those tears will make it through. Some of that pain he will comfort you through.

Just remember, it ain't about you. You had your turn, and when you let it be about you, you harmed your spouse.

Be there for him, be available, be present. Be silent when you must, and supportive when you can.

MrsBHunt, maybe you feel this way because you are making excuses. Read on...

That's your main problem, alright. You have had no boundaries around your relationship with other men. You have not had a sound boundary to protect your marriage as something valued.

Try again. Try: "then suggestions were made and things started to go I chose to let things go too far."

From some of what you've said on this & your subsequent posts, it seems like you want to own your conduct. But you need to own it fully. When people have affairs, like you did and like I did, there was no gun to our heads; no one slipped anything into our coffee that made us not responsible for our actions. You made a whole sequence of choices. Be sure that you're owning them fully. If you do, this will help your husband & give your marriage a better chance.

If you haven't started already, I suggest you get & read Surviving An Affair, preferably together with your husband.

When you are able to give your narrative (to yourself or to others) of how you got into affairs and that narrative no longer contains b.s. like that which I've highlighted, then you'll know you're making progress.

Thanks GloveOil,

I think part of me still wants to say it wasn't all my fault because that (small) part of me wants to think that if BH thinks it wasn't my fault he's more likely to come home. My defenses have been high this week, because I was so scared he wouldn't come home - I still am in fact. But we spoke yesterday about some of the finer details that I'd withheld origionally, and although it set us back because it was yet another thing i'd hidden from him, the more we talked about it the better it seems to be. It sounds like a very simple thing - tell the truth, they're less likely to hate you, and I do honestly think that I know that now. So we've talked about everything, even about the things i really don't want him to know about (details etc), and I think that ownership is part of that process too.

BH ordered Surviving an Affair before I joined this site and we have said we will read it together.

-

on a side note we had our first counselling session last night. It was OK, not what I thought it would be, and we talked about a lot of stuff I didn't really think was relevant (childhood, previous employment etc) but we're going to stick with it as now they've got our "back story" I hope that things will be more productive.

Letter of NC went out yesterday too, and today I'm going to stay with my mum for a few days so BH can come back home and have some time here alone making his decision.

Quote

My husband and I have been married for only 11 months

This is a key point. You keep saying �we�ve been married for 11 months but have been together for 5 years� but the salient fact is that you cheated on your husband before you�d even been married a year. Not a good sign at all.

Quote

On Saturday we had the obligitary arguments,

Rather a bore isn�t it? So inconvenient to have to sit through it, what? The optional arguments can be much more interesting.


The fundamental issues lie in the fact that you act inappropriately around men and can�t be truthful to your husband. It wasn�t that you couldn�t talk to your husband, it was that you wouldn�t. Let�s see, talk to my husband about a problem or create an even bigger one by boinking a co-worker. Yeah, I can see the logic there.

Quote

Flirts became more sexual, and eventually physical without me knowing how to stop them.

How about �NO!�

Quote

an occasional flirt is ok, but constant flirting with the same person is not

Wrong again.


Were you possessed? Kidnapped by aliens and one took your place and committed adultery? Then I guess it was you. Wish we had a dollar for each time we heard this from a wayward.


Sorry, seems a bit more of that convoluted logic. yes, it's better to just try to shift blame and get this unpleasantness behind us as quickly as possible.


This is why your husband should have doubts about anything that you say. He shouldn�t trust you because you are not trustworthy. It has been only ten days since you were caught. Your entire thread is full of wayward speak, and it seems to me that you are also following the script in that you are already impatient for him to get over it. You had the obligatory arguments; he is going through the obligatory pain so you, of course, should say the obligatory things about counseling, and it�s funny that you can talk now but couldn�t before.

Your situation and behavior is not new or unique, it's all been said and done here before. It's all about you, yes, now YOU'RE HURTING and you're wondering if you should let your husband know? You don't seem to be hurting, actually you don't even register as contrite, never mind genuinely remorseful.

DEar MrsB,

You need to confess everything about the two affairs to your husband.. You need to tell him who they are immediately. If you dont confess every last iota your recovery wont work. You need to read wolf pack girl's posts to realize what could happen if you dont confess everything.

You need to quit your job immediately, get welfare if you must

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2423067&page=1


EVERYTHING must be on the table.

You may also ask him if he would do the Personal History Questionnaire. If you two want to move this forward, I suggest you tell him about the time you ate your own boogers, and he tells you about the time he peeked into the girls' locker room in middle school.

It's time to share your deepest, darkest secrets with each other; total Radical Honesty.

MBH,

Trust what people are saying here, reveal all even if it is during the time you were only dating, your H will be reviewing his memory for suspect moments.

Perhaps someday he will be doing something ordinary and will remember a small detail from long time ago as if it was a punch to the face. This is what happened to me with my W.

God Bless
Gamma

MrsBH, I wasn't going to weigh in - in fact, I really should be going to bed right now but I've pretty much become an insomniac since 2011 got underway. But since others have referred to my thread I can offer at least a cautionary tale. I don't know that I offer great advice, other than "don't do what I did!"

If you've read my massive thread, #1 you'll know that I am pretty wordy (understatement!) and #2 for a while there, I did a lot of whining. Some may think I still do, I dunno!

And #3, and most importantly, that what these other folks are referring to is that I subjected my H to trickle truth for months. Four months, to be exact. I lied over and over, to his face, looked him in the eye, swore upon everything that was holy that I had never had sex with my A partner. I lied because I was afraid of losing him, I lied because I was selfish, I lied to protect myself, and I *thought* I was lying to protect him, but I was denying him crucial information about his life that I had no right to deny.

I don't know what the outcome would have been if I'd been honest with my H that very first day. I remember that day. It was a Sunday. We'd just gotten home from church. H had stayed home and just the girls and I had gone. I remember the outfit I was wearing, right down to the shoes. I remember being on my knees in the driveway and begging him not to go. And I knew that day that I wanted my H more than the POSOM, but by lying to my H, I put my wants and desires ahead of his - the desire for an honest and faithful wife.

So, my H put heart and soul into recovery and Plan A'ed the heck out of me (this was before MB, but he was essentially doing Plan A). I fell back into crazy, head-over-heels love for him. But the whole time I kept lying. I'd gotten in too deep, I told myself. I can't tell him now. And I selfishly didn't want what he was doing - meeting my EN's like a trooper - to stop. When he finally found out the truth, it devastated him. It negated everything that we did over those four months. He couldn't believe anything I did or said from that point forward, and in fact doubted everything I'd done during our entire relationship. I finally got to the point I took a polygraph. Too little, too late. And now, he's gone.

No, I don't know what would have happened had I been honest on that August day. But at least I would have given him the truth that he deserved.

My other mistake - well, I made many mistakes, but let's just cover 2 of them here, ok? - my other mistake was not being able to put my expectations on hold. I wanted the H I had during those 4 months back so badly that I was constantly feeling hurt by one thing or another, because I was expecting my H to meet my needs. You simply can't have any expectations. And yes, it is hard. Yes, it hurts when your needs aren't met. But you're going to have to pull most of the weight of recovery for a while. We have dealt a mortal wound to our H's - lots of folks here have described it like having a trauma patient who is bleeding out...my trickle truth was like kicking him while he was down. And then I expected to be able to slap a bandaid on a gaping wound and him get up and be all lovey dovey again? Yeah. Selfish.

So, in the end not really any advice, just if you truly value your M, then do this the right way. You've found MB early on in your recovery, and your H has given you a beautiful gift, the gift of a second chance. None of us FWS's deserve a second chance. But he's holding out that brass ring for you. Grab it and cherish it, give that gift the respect and honor it deserves, and do whatever you can to keep it and protect it.

{t/j...}





I once broke up with my "boyfriend" in elementary school because someone told me he put boogers in the water fountain. {end t/j}

Thanks wulffpack_girl for your candid response, I hope things are going well for you!!

I hope MrsB that you and your husband are reading these threads together!

Well said, wpg.

((((WPG)))) Tit-for-tat... you got me crying...

Wait, wait, wait... men don't cry! Nothing to see here, move along.


Anyway, my whole booger eating comment is based on this; affairs rely on secrets and lies to begin and to continue. Truth kills them.

Many of us have our little secrets or shames, things nobody, or very few people, know. Sharing those things with your spouse is a wonderful opportunity to reconnect, and is a great exercise in radical honesty.

Bit of an update as I want to make sure I keep posting and keep getting the advise from people here.

BH moved back in 11 days ago, we've had 2 couples counselling sessions, and have spent a lot of time talking. We've completed the LB and EN questionnaires, and have started reading through the SAA book - we've read the first 6 chapters now. Things seem to be going well at the moment, we both have up and down days, but are able to comfort one another when needed and have been able to talk about what's caused the dips so that we can work on avoiding them again.

BH has been really controlled when he's angry or upset, trying really hard not to have any outbursts, and fortunately he's only been angry or upset for a few hours at a time rather than days. We've found that talking after helps a lot, as I get to know what it is that triggers him and visa versa.

The honesty policy continues, as I am currently still working with OM I have been ensuring that BH knows the days we are going to see each other, and telling him of any contact that has been attempted by either of us - so far only one instance yesterday but soon sorted it with an email to OM with BH BCC'd in. We also talked during the EN questionnaire about some things from my past that I hadn't previously shared with anyone.

I've applied for a few jobs, with the most promising one coming up yesterday - and I have passed my driving test and bought a car to widen the area I can look for jobs in. At the moment we are dealing with me working with OM, though both of us are looking forward to me getting a new job so that NC can truly start.

I've also explained the situation to both managers in my team at work so that they can help me to ensure I have as little contact as possible with OM - both have been very supportive, and have agreed to ensure we do not have to work closely together.

BH and I are working really well together at the moment, and things are not as difficult as we had thought that they may be. The main problem that I am having at the moment is trying to ensure I'm aware of BHs triggers for AO so that I can avoid them - except at the moment even BH doesn't know what they are so that's proving difficult.

Any advice on identifying triggers and helping BH when he's angry?

MrsB, what was this contact about? Did OM try to contact you to be "friends", or what? What did you reply?

I know of one couple here, The Wonderings, who faced contact from OM. MrsW informed MrW BEFORE she attempted any reply, and in at least one instance, MrW replied telling OM to take a hike. I think his reply carried more weight than one from her would have. She showed OM that she was fully committed to her marriage by forwarding the email to her H and letting HIM reply - not just by cc-ing him.

Having your BH reply is a great idea. There was one instance about a month after D-Day for us that the OM came to the school where I taught to visit some former special needs students. I immediately called my DH on my cell phone when I realized he was there and stayed in my classroom with the door shut (it was during my planning period). DH emailed OM and told him he hoped to never hear of him coming to my school again and would tell the administration. It helped DH feel safer that I told him immediately, it gave him some power to be able to respond to it, and it drove home the point to OM that he had better stay away.

Mrs. B said she "BCC'ed" her husband which means OM doesn't know that she "cc'ed" her husband. It should be open and obvious to OM that any necessary work communication (for the necessary next few weeks until you get a job...though I'd love for you to just quit TODAY)....should include a CC (not a BCC) to your husband.

In fact...if your manager(s) understand...if you MUST email OM why not send it to OM through the manager as in:

Manager...could you please inform so and so (OM) that blah, blah, blah...business things and then she can BCC her husband since it's NOT direct communication with OM.


Any extra steps and FIGHT to avoid OM demonstrated in word AND action by Mrs.BH only helps demonstrate her sincerity towards Mr.BerkHunt. Especially in this situation where OM really wasn't a romantic interest at all and there is no indication OM is actively pursuing her.

I hope your job search can put you in a all female or mostly married female office/workplace setting. I think your situation involved two or more office sexual encounters so your husband is likely to be untrusting of you working closely with any males not just ONE particular OM. Presuming rebuilding his trust in you is important to you.

Mr. Wondering

The communication from OM was face to face, I was talking to a female colleague at work, and he tried to join in the conversation, asking me direct questions about my car etc.

I contacted BH before I emailed OM to say what had happened, and we agreed I should email OM restating that all communication was unacceptable, and that that included talking at work. I only BCC'd rather than CC'd as I didn't want OM to think I was only saying it for BHs benefit.

BH and I have discussed ongoing contact with male work colleagues and that it would be difficult for him even in a new role, but it is a bridge that we will have to cross when we come to it. He has made it clear what is and isn't acceptable, and has drawn the line much firmer than would have been the case previously (i.e. before we both agreed male friends were ok, and occasional flirting was ok, we have now discussed that this is not OK). I think knowing this will make it much easier for us.

Unfortunately I'm not in a position to be able to pick and choose the role I go for dependant on the people I work with, nor am I able to quit tomorrow - this is something that BH and I have discussed on many occasions and he has said that he does not want me to due to financial strain it would put on us, but we both have a clear idea of what is acceptable and it will be a relief to get out of my current role no matter where i go.



can I also take the opportunity to thank everyone who has commented on this thread for there comments, particularly those of you who are BS's yourselves. I know that my H has a difficult time showing how much I have hurt him and how angry he is as he doesn't want to upset me, and the strong viewpoints of people here helps me to understand and let me know what to do. We're doing really really well at the moment and I think that that is hugely due to the advise we have had here, and so thanks for that!

Your willingness to post and put up with the strong opinions here is a testament to the notion that you may have just made a series of really bad youthful mistakes.

You are only 24. I'm glad I'm not being judged for the rest of my life for the mistakes I made when I was 24. However, I wisely waited until I was 30 to marry. Like it or not (at times when your taker wants to enjoy it's youth) you ARE married and that has significant meaning and responsibilities.

By posting and staying engaged discussing and learning about marriage you are doing yourself, your husband and your marriage a great service. Through this experience you (and your husband) have the opportunity to become great role models for other struggling young persons and couples as you reshape your goals, your relationship and your lives.

BOTH OF YOU...TOGETHER.

Good luck to you...we will be thanking you someday when we see you turn this around into something respectable and wonderful and share the experience of getting there with others.

Mr. Wondering

p.s.- Why BerkeleyHunt? Are you and/or your husband aware it can have a really negative connotation? So say my British friends.

Thanks MrW, i really hope and believe that we can still make this a fantastic marriage.

re the berkeleyhunt, it is a name hubby chose some time ago as a part of his twisted sense of humor because of the nagative connotation - one of many things i love about him

I also recall your husband's story of quickly moving in together and thought maybe your marriage suffered due to both of you kind of coming at this as "renters" instead of "buyers".

One of Dr. Harleys books discusses some of the huge pitfalls of living together before marriage and why it's a terrible choice that often results in what happened to the two of you. The book is called: Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders: Turning Revolving Romance into Lasting Love.

It's available at Amazon pretty cheap (about $7 to $11) even in my favorite format CD audio version whereupon you can listen to the CD's together in the car on a road trip vacation alone together pausing and discussing uninterrupted in the car along the way. Link to BRFreeloaders at Amazon

IMO, this book and His Needs/Her Needs will be your most beneficial books.

Mr. W

He forgot to translate that into British for you!