Hi Everyone,
I apologize if the post is long - thanks to all of you for collecting this information - if it was not for this site I don't know what I would be doing right now. I will try to post a summary followed by details to make this flow a little better.
Me - BS Husband
Her - WS Wife
Emotional affair with co-worker for 2 months
3 Weeks ago my wife said she did not think she was in love with me anymore and did not know if she wanted to be married. She did not explain why and said she wanted to talk to a counselor. Through reading this site I determined that the reason why was my repeated love bank withdrawals and not paying attention to her emotional needs - admiration, affection and conversation. We have a two year old son. She has not felt beautiful since having him. This issue has manifested itself in many ways and in classic husband/wife miscommunication I have not truly understood the issue. My fault for not preventing an affair. 100% her fault for having the affair.
Last night she broke and admitted everything to me. I have told her mom and confronted the guy she was talking to. They kept talking so I told his spouse.
My wife says she wants to work things out. I don't know what to do now.
It seems according to plan A that I am to correct the things I was doing wrong, make big love bank deposits and no withdrawals. Make her feel beautiful and loved like she deserves.
I however have 0 trust for her, am scared, and disgusted. I am scared this will get to her boss and she will lose her job. I am scared that she will divorce me.
Please give me your guidance and I will respond accordingly.
Forever grateful...
Hi Meh, welcome to Marriage Builders. I would get the book Surviving an Affair and read it so you understand what we are talking about. In the meantime, read this article about what it will take to recover your marriage:
The plan I recommend for recovery after an affair is very specific. That's because I've found that even small deviations from that plan are usually disastrous. But when it's followed, it always works. The plan has two parts that must be implemented sequentially. The first part of the plan is for the unfaithful spouse to completely separate from the lover and eliminate the conditions that made the affair possible. The second part is for the couple to create a romantic relationship, using my Basic Concepts as a guide.
I'll describe these two parts to you in a little more detail.
The first step, complete separation from the lover and eliminating the conditions that made the affair possible, requires a complete understanding of the affair. All information regarding the affair must be revealed to the betrayed spouse, including the name of the lover, the conditions that made the affair possible (travel, internet, etc.), the details of what took place during the affair, all correspondence, and anything else that would shed light on the tragedy.
This information is important for two reasons: (1) it creates accountability and transparency, making it essentially impossible for the unfaithful spouse to continue the affair or begin a new one unnoticed, and (2) it creates trust for the betrayed spouse, providing evidence that the affair is over and a new one is unlikely to take its place. The nightmares you experience are likely to continue until you have the facts that
will lead to your assurance that your husband can be trusted.
An analysis of the wayward spouse's childhood or emotional state of mind in an effort to discover why he or she would have an affair is distracting and unnecessary. It takes precious time away from finding the real solutions. I know why people have affairs: We are all wired for it. Given certain conditions, we would all do it. Given other conditions, however, none of us would do it. So the goal of the first step is to discover the conditions that made the affair possible and eliminate them.
After the first step is completed, the second step is to create a romantic relationship between you and your husband using my 10 Basic Concepts
here as your guide. While your relationship may be improving, it won't lead to a romantic relationship because you are not being transparent toward each other. Unspoken issues in a marital relationship lead to a superficiality that ruins romance.
Thanks for the reply - I ordered the book - it should be here today or tomorrow - I ordered it last Friday.
Step 1 is complete - I have confronted my WS - I told her know everything and she has admitted everything including what I wrote above about needing to feel beautiful etc. The affair seems to be off for now.
I am so confused about step 2 - How can I possibly do this with my wife now. She is so furious with me. Saying "I hope I don't lose my job" and that I betrayed her trust as well, etc. I feel so disgusted and distanced from her that any attempts to be nice are going to seem contrived. I did tell her I know this is hard for her to and that I will be there for her. She basically is not talking.
Does she work with the OM?
Just stay calm and just keep telling her you are working to save the marriage, that you love her still and that when she is ready to commit you will be there for her and you are willing to do whatever it takes to have a better marriage for the both of you.
Just look good, smell good, take care of things in order to make it through each day, food, chores whatever needs to be completed.....
she is mad because she is having to be accountable for her actions, this is a good thing.........mad is good, let her feel the brunt of all that is happening right now.....
make your home her safe place for now. peaceful and free from the outside......
self reflection should start to take place, guilt should set in.........she will see you stepping up to the plate for the marriage real soon......
Make no mistake, if OM is co-worker then your WW should leave the job anyway. Thats the real No Contact dr Harley is talking about:
The first part of the plan is for the unfaithful spouse to completely separate from the lover and eliminate the conditions that made the affair possible.
As I understand from your story then step 1 is not complete at all. The affair will last as long as they work together.
Why is your WW furious with you - because you exposed OMW? If you did, then know that you did the best thing you could to kill the affair. Your marriage survives the anger but does not survive the affair.
I however have 0 trust for her, am scared, and disgusted. I am scared this will get to her boss and she will lose her job. I am scared that she will divorce me....Please give me your guidance and I will respond accordingly.
STOP.....BEING.....SCARED!!!!
Dozens (hundreds?) of folks on this site started here in the same situation - or worse! - that you present to us now. As shocking and cataclysmic as it seems to each of us when it OUR relationship that has been dealt a blow, there are elements in most of our stories that work to bind the parties back together.
You did not give much detail about your wife's willingness/availability to talk to you about this, but if she truly wants to "work this out", she's eventually going to have to understand that a lot of the "work" in that phrase will devolve upon her.
Get the books, have both of you read them, complete the EN questionnaires. Start WORKING this problem together, and you have an excellent chance of having a better marriage in the future than you had (or even THOUGHT you had) in the past.
(Just a mechanical suggestion - stay on THIS thread for all ypour questions and concerns. Don't start additional threads.)
NeverGuessed -I will stay on this thread - I am taking a deep breath and won't be scared.
recon6mo - Her quitting her job immediately will cause us to forclose on our home - I will tell her she needs to look for another job?
jessitaylor - very good advice - that made me hopeful - thanks
MelodyLane - she does work with the OM
Any suggestions on what to do if she files for seperation - do I just go with it or fight it?
I want our marriage to work - she is not really talking right now and has a difficult time explaining her feelings.
I just want to say again how grateful I am to all of you
Her quitting her job immediately will cause us to forclose on our home
She'll have some time to look for another job. You won't be thrown out of your home immediately.
You can't have both, Meh. Unfortunately, she destroyed her job.
Man this really sucks - we are already two mortgage pmts behind with threats of foreclosure if we don't become current - She and I make the same amt of $ and have no money saved or to spare.
Wow
Random Question - do you ever tell the WS about marriage builders, the book, plan A, plan B?
I wouldn't think so but people talk about working through the book and site together
I would keep marriage builders to yourself right now for your support, some wayward spouses do come together when they are willing to work on the marriage.....
Your first plan should be to stop the contact between your wayward spouse and the affair person........
Exposure brings the affair out in the open and makes the affair couple responsible for their choices, quickest way to end the affair..
If you spouse is mad, so be it, it's a way to tell that exposure worked,
You keep telling your spouse you are willing to work together to have a marriage you both can be happy in and that you understand that the condition the marriage was in before the affair is both your responsibility.
Don't give up, be strong every success story starts with a good plan.........think long term not the present and patience a lot of it helps......
Lots of great folks to help here
So I told my wife to look for a new job - she did not respond
What is the best way to go about this part?
You have to just try to get across the message that she can't continue to work with someone that she has been emotionally attached to if she wants to stay in the marriage.........Tell her that isn't a place where you can feel safe in.........she has to understand that there can't be 3 people in the marriage, that she will have to chose which 2 are going to remain.........
Be firm but loving, tell her if she thinks he is more important than you will have to separate yourself from her and that situation,
You also tell her that since she is the one chosing to leave the marriage that she should chose to leave the marital home.......
Let her think on those realities and tell you need an answer soon so you can plan the life you are going to have because of her decisions......
meh Just know I am right in your shoes as many of us are. Listen to these guys even when you think they are wrong Listen and dont hesitate.
The pain can almost be unbearable go see your physician and get some meds to help you!
MelodyLane - she does work with the OM
This is the where I would start. She has to quit the job in order for your marriage to recover. As long as she sees the OM at work you can consider the affair ACTIVE. It won't end until she ends all contact.
Is the OM married?
Your most effective weapon against the affair is exposure. We have had affairs killed the day they were exposed. While no guarantee, it is your best hope of saving your marriage. Affairs thrive on secrecy so exposing it wide and far ruins the fantasy aspect. Exposure should be done wide and far and all on the same day to create a tsunami effect.
Exposure targets are:
1. the OM's wife, if any.
2. all of your parents: yours, your WW's and the OM's
3. close friends and family
4. children
5. the HR director and the affairee's supervisors [we have a sample letter]
6. the OM's facebook friends
We can help you develop a strategy to do this. But be assured this is your most effective weapon against the affair. The ones who make it around here expose the affairs.
Any suggestions on what to do if she files for seperation - do I just go with it or fight it?
Countersue on grounds of adultery and pledge to have the OM hauled into court to give testimony on the stand about his adultery with your wife. Tell her you will fight for possession of the home and custody of the kids. DO NOT LEAVE YOUR HOME. If she wants to separate, MAKE HER LEAVE. WITHOUT THE KIDS. Do not allow her to move the kids of your home without a court order.
I want our marriage to work - she is not really talking right now and has a difficult time explaining her feelings.
That is because she is preoccupied with an affair.
Random Question - do you ever tell the WS about marriage builders, the book, plan A, plan B?
I wouldn't think so but people talk about working through the book and site together
Only tell the WS about MB when the affair is truly over and all contact has ended.
"Exposure is very likely to end the affair, lifting the fog that has overcome the unfaithful spouse, helping him or her become truly repentant and willing to put energy and effort into a full marital recovery. In my experience with thousands of couples who struggle with the fallout of infidelity, exposure has been the single most important first step toward recovery. It not only helps end the affair, but it also provides support to the betrayed spouse, giving him or her stamina to hold out for ultimate recovery."
Dr Harley discusses exposure in this radio clip:
click here
So I told my wife to look for a new job - she did not respond...What is the best way to go about this part?
Sit her down. Lay it out as follows:
- We cannot start rebuilding our relationship until the affair is over and dead.
- It cannot be over and dead while the conditions that led to it (the two AP's working together) continue to exist.
- There is no "Yeah, but..." here. THE REBUILDING CANNOT START UNTIL THE AP'S ARE SEPARATED AND A NC CONDITON IS IN PLACE.
- If this cannot be brought about the chances of a successful recovery are HUGELY diminished.
- Whatever the economic or lifestyle impacts of the NC conditions, they are merely the delayed result of the decision to have an affair, a sunk cost, or a bill that has finally come due.
Not fun, but necessary, Meh.
Thanks again everyone - here is an update
So this A has completely been exposed and blown up.
I called the OM's wife and told her exactly what happened yesterday morning and that my wife broke down, admitted everything and said that since having our first child 1 1/2 yrs ago, she has not felt beautiful and that OM has boosted her ego/made her feel special etc.
The OM's wife has been calling my wife repeatedly and left her a message saying "you and your husband better never talk to my family again. Sorry that you are needy and have to feel beautiful but that is husbands job and he is all mine. You will have to find that elsewhere. And we will be talking about this!"
My wife called me immediately and told me that the OM's wife left this message on her phone. My wife said the she threw up, has been freaking out, is scared the OM's wife will come to her work - she also proactively told me that she called OM this morning and they both agreed that this absolutely must stop now.
-------------
So, after repeated lying my wife broke down crying, saying why all this happened and admitted to lying. She is a full time worker and full time in school as well. I feel that I caught this very early on. The phone records show that the all-day texting started out of the blue 7 weeks ago. I honestly feel that this was just texting.
My wife at this point is adamant that this whole A is over. That she nor the other guy (bc his wife is pissed) want this to continue at all. My wife says she feels dirty because of this and that she wants to see a counselor and work on our marriage. I feel like she is being honest at this point. It seems that the consequences of this exposure are far outweighing the fantasy of the affair for my wife. She has been distraught, stressed out, said she threw up at work.
Note: the work in the same building but not with each other - at most they would see each other twice a week in passing. I am still pushing her to seek employment elsewhere.
It's great that OMW knows and is royally ticked. I'd still get her out of that job. Even once every few weeks to see each other is too much. That will be a constant trigger. When they don't see each other they'll wonder when they will next. It's going to remain in the forefront of their minds.
From Dr. Harley, emphasis mine:
Most victimized spouses intuitively understand that all contact with a lover must end for life. Permanent separation not only helps prevent a renewal of the affair, but it is also a crucial gesture of consideration to someone who has been through hell. What victimized spouse would ever want to know that his or her spouse is seeing or communicating with a former lover at work or in some other activity?
In spite of career sacrifices, friendships, and issues relating to children's schooling, I am adamant in recommending that there be no contact with a former lover for life. For many, that means a move to another state. But to do otherwise fails to recognize the nature of addiction and its cure.
Thanks maritalbliss - I am going to push this quitting the job thing - she has got too... I can already see how it will go otherwise.
This current tornado of exposure will die down - the NC will continue painfully for them both as they see each other at work and the irresistible temptation is there. Eventually one of them will break and make the move.
I still don't think my wife is completely out of the fog. I think she has made the decision to stop but does not realize how dangerous the situation is to herself. I think her intentions are good. I really want her to get on this site now and start reading info - full time school/full time job - so little time for MB for her. She needs to make the time and get her priorities straight.
I feel like it will really start bothering me if she does not start some proactive tasks to get our marriage back on track. I have written down, talked to and showed her that I know what went wrong. She needs to begin the remorse process and start showing me that she wants this to work. Right now, she has just said that she wants IC.
I keep going back and forth between my self-awakening of how my woman wants to be treated, my relief that she has admitted everything and wants to stay married, and my huge doubts about this affair being permanently over.
I think my wife feels hurt and that her intentions to have the affair over are good enough. Though she is busy I want action on her part - I am so exhausted from guiding this entire thing. I have apologized for our marital faults, spent hours and days on MB, researched affairs, coordinated detection of the A and exposure, put up with her lying to my face repeatedly, and made suggestions of where my wife and I go from here - MC, IC, MB, etc. I am supporting her now the way I should - gave her back massage last night, sent her flowers, told her even though what she did is bad she is not a bad person, told her I would support her.
I am really growing tired of doing all the work here. I will continue to do it but really want to be able to shut up and see action on her part.
Clarrification -
"I think my wife feels hurt and that her intentions to have the affair over are good enough."
I do not mean that her intentions are good enough for me - they are not. I mean that she feels that they are good enough for her and that she feels so strongly to end this right now that she thinks she will.
I think my wife feels hurt and that her intentions to have the affair over are good enough.
Her feelings are immaterial. Her thoughts are immaterial. What is required of her right now is
action. She's got to prove through her actions that she is committed to recovery.
And, not being mean but pointing out the obvious: I don't care how busy she is - she managed to make time for an affair, didn't she?
thanks maritalbliss -and I don't take that meanly from you - for my skin is thick as bricks right now!!!
You are correct about the time for the affair - in fact people saying they don't have time is a pet peave of mine. There is always somebody a lot busier than you and still finding to take the time to do what you won't. Just think of all the excuses not to exercise due to time constraints. end rant
Yes I agree on the action - that is what I want now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I guess I will continue pressing the quitting work issue, being the best husband and father I can be, and hoping/praying that she will take action - I can't make her do it.
Well, yes, in a way you can. If this is a condition you have for recovery and she refuses, you'll know she's putting her job first over your marriage. You need to decide at that point whether you're interested in recovering your M while she continues to work there.
Many betrayeds have made this a requirement for their wayward to stay in the marriage. Are you willing to do that? Because she'll smell your ambivalence if you're not, and will balk at quitting.
I can't make her do it.Oh, puh-leeeze!
Remember, you were going to ditch the "scared" crap, right?
- Stop being "scared" of her refusal - it is NOT to be a matter of negotiation.
- Stop being "scared" of exposing to her (and his) workplace.
- Stop being "scared" of exposing to her entire family, friends, etc.
Look at the positive developments you garnered by "manning up" and exposing to OMW. Now continue the process.
If either OM or WW was in a supervisory position, that person is very likely to have serious problems with the HR department, up to and possibly including being let go. If it's WW, well, them's the breaks; if OM, hurray for your side. Once WW's family is fully advised about the affair, WW will find herself a LOT less cocksure about telling you "No" regarding breaking off contact (via job action) with OM.
Now for the bad news that I'm surprised no one here has mentioned before - Start preparing yourself for the distinct possibility that this affair was NOT limited to an exchange of inappropriate e-messages. Given proximity (together every day - check!) and time (three months? not sure) almost every EA morphs into some form of PA. If you set your mind toward that probability, you might find yourself more "incented" to actively drive this thing into the ground.
Thanks for the advice - big eye opener Neverguessed - I have tried not to think of the possibility that more has happened than just texts. I don't know if I will ever find out for sure.
Its gone down like this - the OM is basically playing dumb to his wife - I told his wife that my wife opened up about everything. I told his wife that there were 10-50 text exchanges per day including picture messages for 7 weeks. I told her that my wife said her husband was making her feel special, beautiful, etc. The OM's wife was very silent on the phone, thanked me and I told her that she could call me if she needed to talk. Since then, the OM has texted me saying that it was nothing but texting and to leave his family alone. Basically his wife is being naive - I am certain that OM has said it was just texting, he had no idea that my wife felt that way and that I am crazy for blowing it up.
My wife just called pissed about the OM's wife calling her. My wife says she wants all this to stop right now and that she is mad that this other woman is probably going to be talking bad about our family. My wife said she is disgusted with herself and the situation. She also said she is pissed that the OM is handling the situation by playing dumb and putting it all of on her. She said she wished the OM would take responsibility and that he knows he is wrong.
I can't make her do it.
Now for the bad news that I'm surprised no one here has mentioned before - Start preparing yourself for the distinct possibility that this affair was NOT limited to an exchange of inappropriate e-messages. Given proximity (together every day - check!) and time (three months? not sure) almost every EA morphs into some form of PA. If you set your mind toward that probability, you might find yourself more "incented" to actively drive this thing into the ground.
Yep, I will bet our farm if we had one that more went on besides texting. There is no way that they only texted for seven weeks. Prepare yourself for the very worse. I know it's hard and it feels like Mohammed Ali just sucker punched you, but there is always a lot more to the story than what the WS admits to at first. Dr. Harley recommends complete honesty and although I had to run out of the room to scream and throw up several times during my FWH telling me the entire truth, in the long run it helped our M and helped me to see that he was willing to dig down deep and not hold any secrets between him and XOW.
You must also stop being afraid to lose your W and your M. MB is a wonderful program and Plan A works well but one of the things that we as BS have to have is a strong backbone where we Plan A but also don't make our WS think that we are a doormat or are so afraid to lose them. WS sometimes get too cocky and some of them abusive. The sad reality is you have to be able to stand up for yourself even if it means putting your WS out of your life if they are not willing to do the hard work in re-building the M. Some WS when they find that you are so afraid to lose them, will become even more narcissistic which isn't healthy for your M or you. You can�t let her think that you won�t show her the door if she continues her bad behavior. You have to know that you are worthy of a faithful, honest spouse who doesn�t run into another man�s arms when things go south in the M.
We counseled with Dr. Harley and I did a modified Plan A where I showed my FWH that I would kick him out on his butt if he wasn�t willing to put in the hard work to repair our M. My DH knows that I will execute Plan OUT where I will kick him out of my life for good if he ever brings a third party into my M and he knows that I can live without him if I need to. Also, keep yourself looking good each and every day. Exercise and eat right and make sure you do nice things for yourself every now and then. Sometimes we consume ourselves with our spouses and their A that we forget how wonderful and special we are. Don�t forget that your WW is lucky to have you and that you are willing to stay and re-build after what she did.
Meh, don't fall for ANYTHING the OM says. During my wife's A with the OM, I talked to the OM on the phone and he SWORE nothing was happening beyond texting/friendship.
Then he and my wife admitted to an EA "only."
Then they admitted they met at a hotel but only "kissed" and decided it was wrong.
They they admitted they had sex once.
Then they admitted they had sex many times.
Then my wife admitted the OM promised her a new life with money, excitement, new house, cars, etc, and that he planned to divorce his wife and kids for my wife and kids.
Men will sell their own wife, mother, and kids to get a free piece of a**.
Sorry to be blunt, but you are being trickle-truthed like I was. My wife's texting went crazy AFTER they started having sex (to the tune of 13,000 texts the month following their first sex date.)
Thanks cobol - trying not to cry right now
I fear that you are right --- I asked my wife did anything besides texting go on and her response is "when would there have been time." Classic lying in my opinion. There is always time -
I am convinced that there had to be more - how will I ever get that out of her????????
WTF wider and cobol
How in the world am I going to get truth -
I want to go punch something and throw up right now - I have had a bad gut feeling about this... something else has to have gone on.
Your right - why would it be just texting----------but every affair doesn't include sex.
This is awful - I just want the truth - I know she is hiding something else - she has to be
I found a message where she told him "i really miss you calling me beautiful" I found that the other day - it kicked off D-Day
I can't stop thinking about the sex thing
My wife said the same thing: "how would I have TIME for an A???" Well, guess what. The POSOM flew into town when my wife was supposed to be doing overnight business trips.
OF COURSE she didn't have time for an A (rolling my eyes in sarcasm.....)
I know - you have to be right
She has gone to "study" so many times and left the house saying she had to go to the library - in fact it just dawned on me that she used to always study at home and just in the last semester said she needed to go to the library.
13,ooo text messages, don't be a fool, there was more to that relationship than texting, I got the same story, just friends helping each other, then yes they were in an Ea, and then finally over a couple of weeks the truth comes out......a full fledged affair with I love you's as well..............
dont' believe it for a minute........
OK OK How do I get the truth
a lie detector test? snooping on her phone, sim card readers? key logger on comp. Gps in car...........VAR in the car.............stay calm get the truth so you know what you are dealing with.
Expose to everyone that is important to your spouse including the work HR department..
You have to stop the contact between them first.......then the withdrawal from that relationship will happen while you meet his needs, then together you can rebuild your marriage...........
don't let him know what your plans are.........
OK OK How do I get the truth
Hello Meh,
The answer is...
Polygraph.
You let your WW know that you feel that for the M to recover there has to be total honesty.
Let her see you looking up the polygraph examiner in the phonebook and go ahead and make an appointment...
but a week from now.
Draw up the specific questions you want answered with only specific yes or no answers such as...
Did any part of his body ever touch any part of your body?
I got the same story in the beginning...
We never had sex....we only kissed....we had sex one time....we had sex several times...to an affair that had gone on for years.
I made it clear to Mrs.Flint that I needed the truth and if the polygraph proved she was lying we were done.
She confessed BEFORE the test.
Most do.
God bless.
Jim
there have been about a 1000 texts, 20 pix messages
She has had so many oppurtunities to meet him
My DH initially said he NEVER touch that woman; and then it was only once. The truth was that it was over the course of eight months and six over-nights with probably several times during those nights (excuse me while I go throw up). It was hard for me because I got trickle truth until I kind of tricked my DH into telling me the truth. I exposed his A to HR and the ppl they both worked with. My DH has a high position where he works and they had been watching him and knew about his A. Surprisingly I didn't know they knew at the time but I told my DH that they knew and they were going to meet with me the next day and give me all of the details about his A. This was like a miracle because his boss and HR were actually planning to meet with me and tell me but that night my DH broke down and cried and told me everything. All of the nasty details.
Cheaters become so slick and lie so well, sometimes you have to play them at their own games to get the truth. Once my DH told me the truth we had MC with the Harleys and implemented MB which has worked like a miracle.
It sounds like your WS and the OM are still in co-hoots (sp?) together and are lying for each other. I wouldn't be surprised if they are comparing notes with each other. You have to find a way to get enough allies on your side and expose so badly that there is no way for her and the OM to keep their secrets. You might want to tell your W someone they work with knows the truth about them meeting and tell her you are going to meet with the person the next day to see what they know. It's sad but you have to pull out all the stops to get these liars to tell the truth sometimes.
My DH could have lost his wonderful job by me exposing his A and in fact we were kicked out of the foreign country we were in, he was re-assigned and forced to go to counseling. I didn't care. I had to know the entire truth. Exposure to everyone is your best first response. Your WW is lying about the extent of her A, and the OM is gaslighting and lying to his W. Don�t fall for the tricks and lies that a WS can tell. Stand up for yourself.
I found out initially when the OM's wife found texts referring to their meeting together. I pieced it together from texts from my wife's phone.
My wife did not admit to it until I made a specific reference to a meeting at a particular city on a particular date. Only when she knew that I knew did the truth start slowly coming out. But it was a trickle truth story for about two months until it all came out.
Unfortunately, your wife believes she needs to "protect" you from the painful "truth." It is virtually universal for this to happen. Your wife believes the truth will only hurt you more. She doesn't think you deserve to know the reality of the A for your "well-being."
You need some type of specific truth. Most cell phone companies will let you order the last 90 days of texts by mail. But it will take a notarized signature from your wife to make this happen in most cases. Or you could ask her to take a polygraph.
She nor the OM will give up the truth easily.
I just told her that we have local polygraph in town and I am making an appt. I told her it is foolproof and that if she fails it I will leave her.
You are exactly right - she is scared to hurt me more
ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Hello Meh,
Just wanted to let you know about a post called, "Joseph's letter".
It puts into words what we all felt.
One word of caution, if you share it with your WW you MUST remove all references to Marriage Builders as you DO NOT want her here yet.
Just type it into the search area of the discussion forum in quotations for it to come up.
Maybe someone will post a link to it for you.
God bless.
Jim
I know - you have to be right
She has gone to "study" so many times and left the house saying she had to go to the library - in fact it just dawned on me that she used to always study at home and just in the last semester said she needed to go to the library.
That's where she 'found the time'.
OK - freaking out now
She just said "You are losing it. I am not taking a lie detector test."
OK - freaking out now
She just said "You are losing it. I am not taking a lie detector test."
Then she needs to get out. Tell her you're not going to live with a liar and a cheat. Meh, don't back down from this. She's got plenty more to tell you.
[censored] I am shaking right now
Meh,
Well,
Deep breath...
They all say that.
Because she doesn't think that you are serious and will try to bluff you into dropping it.
You just got the answer that you knew in your heart.
Now you get to work getting HER to understand that you want to recover you M.
And that honesty is necessary.
Did you make the appointment?
She MUST see that you are serious and not just threatening.
Stay CALM and do not engage her in an argument.
Just stay the course with the polygraph.
Plan A her and just be matter of fact about the upcoming polygraph, mark it on the calendar.
Let HER talk if she wants to.
Jim
Meh,
Don't be fooled. She's not trying to "not hurt you." She's covering up her own actions, either to go underground with the A, or so she doesn't look worse.
Just stay calm and stay the course. You don't want to go thru a false recovery.
Those are horrible. I went thru FR for about six months and I'm still twitchy (to the point of PTSD), even two years later with a fully-repentant FWW.
You've got to get the whole truth, and do it ASAP, for your own sanity.
Meh, Did you have a chance to read "Joseph's Letter" yet?
Don't engage your WW right now.
Let it sink in to her what you have said.
No arguments right now.
Stay calm and vent HERE not at her.
Jim
Honesty is what you need. The truth will hurt but you have a right to know.
OK I will vent here - done with polygraph threats for now ---- I told her I am speaking with an attorney tomorrow and that she will lose everything if she refuses the polygraph.
I am going to rad Josephs letter now
Meh, Remember that WS's are the most selfish creatures on Earth...
It seems she wants to stay married to you...
she just doesn't want to tell you the truth because she doesn't see a reason she should have to.
Make sure she sees that it is to HER benefit to confess because you are willing to work on recovering the marriage with her IF she is honest about the affair...
and that you can have an even better M than before the A.
You need to give her a reason to confess that she thinks will benefit HER.
Jim
[censored] I am shaking right now
Meh, I am so sorry. I have been here a year and now seen a lot of men sitting where you are sitting right now. I have even seen a couple sail through it okay with their marriages intact.
What maritalbliss said is absolutely correct. If she will not take steps to assure you that your marriage is safe, she needs to go.
OK I will vent here - done with polygraph threats for now ---- I told her I am speaking with an attorney tomorrow and that she will lose everything if she refuses the polygraph.
I am going to rad Josephs letter now
Perfect. Don't be surprised if she starts blabbing to you before the polygraph test. They usually do. Go through with it anyway.
Good job on not threatening her - you'll accomplish little. You've already said the one word she never wanted to hear -
polygraph. You think
you're shaking?
OK I will vent here - done with polygraph threats for now ---- I told her I am speaking with an attorney tomorrow and that she will lose everything if she refuses the polygraph.
Meh, you are doing an awesome job. So fast and so strong. You are probably the kind of man that your wife is not going to want to lose.
Meh, you should change your name to Lightning. I've never seen anyone do all the right things so fast.
haha - thanks
I told two of her friends in the past hour and she is texting me "why the [censored] did you tell XXXX. who else did you tell?"
She is saying I am scaring her and that I seem crazy
She just said she is taking my son and going to stay with her mom for a while
She just said she is taking my son and going to stay with her mom for a while
I don't think that's appropriate. Why would she need to take your son?
I'd tell her she's not taking your son without a court order.
She just said she is taking my son and going to stay with her mom for a while
Did you expose this to her mother? Give her a call if you haven't. WW will go there are start painting you out to look like a lunatic. You want to get to her mom before that.
Don't get overly emotional when you call her. Explain what her daughter has been up to and ask her for her support as you try to save your marriage.
Blood is thicker than water, but don't forget the blood that Grandmothers are partial to - their grandchildren. Tell her you are sure that she doesn't want her grandson to grow up in a divorced family, and she can help you avoid that.
I have already told her mom - this made my WS more furious than anything.
I just forwarded my WS two texts from the polygraph examiner.
She replied "you really have lost it"
Yes, sir, you do. (Did you realize that on your own? Amazing.)
Don't lose sight of this; don't leave it undone.
well - she texted back saying "I am not making you out to be crazy - I just want to be away from you.
well - she texted back saying "I am not making you out to be crazy - I just want to be away from you.
Pay no attention to the ramblings of a wayward, Meh.
Call her mother and tell her what is going on. Ask for her support as you fight to save your marriage. Do this before WW gets there.
Where is you son right now? Is he with you? She should not leave with him if you can help it.
She replied "you really have lost it"
She still thinks she's driving this car, doesn't she?
But I see you are taking the keys away.
her response "You have to STOP this"
well - she texted back saying "I am not making you out to be crazy - I just want to be away from you.
"You can be away from me all you want, honey, when we are divorced."
her response "You have to STOP this"
I'd quit texting her at this point, Meh. You have other work to do. Did you tell her work and her family, yet? Take care of this all at once for maximum effect.
her response "You have to STOP this"
If you must respond:
"I will never stop fighting for our marriage."
She just said she is taking my son and going to stay with her mom for a while
Did you expose this to her mother? Give her a call if you haven't. WW will go there are start painting you out to look like a lunatic. You want to get to her mom before that.
Don't get overly emotional when you call her. Explain what her daughter has been up to and ask her for her support as you try to save your marriage.
Blood is thicker than water, but don't forget the blood that Grandmothers are partial to - their grandchildren. Tell her you are sure that she doesn't want her grandson to grow up in a divorced family, and she can help you avoid that.
Meh,
Do it quickly.
Tell her you are seeking counseling for you and your WW to save your M. (consider calling the Harley's not only for your M, it also looks VERY good in court if things go south.)
Save all those text's in a SAFE place.
I would also ask her mom to NOT babysit your son for your WW as she may be using this as a way to hook up with the OM.
I would also tell your WW that if she does leave with your son you will be calling the OM's wife to let her know that she should be extra vigilant in keeping an eye on her WH. Which will also make the OM like your WW even less!!!
Jim
I am going to stop talking to her for the next hour at least - things need to simmer
I cant stop her from taking my son
She has said that my telling her mom is more dishonest than what she has done
She just said she is taking my son and going to stay with her mom for a while
Don't let her take your son away from the house. She has no right to do so. If she wants to leave let her leave on your own but keep your son in your house and don't you leave.
If your W was accusing you of sleeping with another woman would you even hesitate to take a polygraph? Absolutely not! You would do that in front of God if you had to.
There is a lot more to her A than she is admitting. I know you are going stir crazy right now but it is very important to remain calm, breathe and if you are a praying man ask God for strength. Calmly tell her that she must take the polygraph if she wants to remain M to you. Continue to Plan A her but it is important that you make her feel safe and not feel threatened in any way. I know that's hard because I have horror stories about my rage after D-Day. But you must stand firm on the poly graph and let her know that you need to feel safe in the M that she hasn't exposed you to diseases and the OM (you know).
She is refusing to take the polygraph because she is lying and it's not for you. I don't believe waywards lie for the BS, they lie because they are selfish and to protect themselves.
You are doing a wonderful job and you are NOT crazy. Crazy is going out and boynking someone else's spouse and lying to your spouse to make them think that they are crazy.
I don't know if you found Joseph's Letter but here is a link. This helped my DH to understand totally what I was going through.
http://www.network54.com/Realm/healingheart/Josephletter.html
She is refusing to take the polygraph because she is lying and it's not for you. I don't believe waywards lie for the BS, they lie because they are selfish and to protect themselves.
True. She's not lying to protect you - she's lying to protect her setup. She's afraid of the fallout and what it will do to her and her lifestyle.
If she didn't want to hurt you she wouldn't have had the A in the first place.
I cant stop her from taking my son
This is true, but you can tell her that you do not approve. She should know this, assuming you feel that way.
There is a small risk that she will take your son somewhere else and disappear. My brother was legally kidnapped from my father during court-ordered visitation. Sadly, possession is sometimes 9/10 of the law in custody situations.
She has said that my telling her mom is more dishonest than what she has done
Don't tell her how ridiculous this is.
WS has called her mom - her mom just called me (she has divorced twice)
Her mom is saying that if WS gets fired from her job this will put financial burden on her. She is saying that even if I find out the truth there is no recovering from this now. She says that if I don't know the truth then WS will divorce me for being crazy and that if the truth is told then there will be no way to recover.
She has said that my telling her mom is more dishonest than what she has done
There is NOTHING dishonest about the truth. This is evidence that your wife is deep in a fog, as this particular line of reasoning is nonsense.
Imagine your wife as Linda Blair in The Exorcist right now. She will spew the most foul, hurtful, and illogical remarks right now. She has been caught and she will react like every other wayward we all have experienced.
As I told my wife, "I will do whatever it takes to fight for my marriage and my family."
I feel like she would divorce me to save face at this point - divorce me and paint me as a lunatic
...She is saying that even if I find out the truth there is no recovering from this now. She says that if I don't know the truth then WS will divorce me for being crazy and that if the truth is told then there will be no way to recover.
Sounds like your mother in law is deep in the fog herself. This is utter nonsense. The truth allows recovery to begin. Covering up lies does not save a marriage. Unfortunately, the m-in-law has no logical reasoning skills at this time. She is probably reeling from what her daughter has done. You may not see her assistance in this matter.
You are NOT CRAZY to expose your wife's A and try to save your family.
that is what her mom has done and would probably encourage --- when the going gets tough, just divorce
We've seen a lot of people recover from knowing some pretty horrible truths, Meh.
You are not crazy. You are reacting quite naturally.
It doesn't sound like your MIL is going to be a whole lot of help, but just the very fact that she knows is going to help put a lot of pressure on the situation.
Keep going.
Have you told her work, yet? Don't let that wait too long!
I feel like she would divorce me to save face at this point - divorce me and paint me as a lunatic
That is why your Plan A should focus on showing you to be a desirable guy. It needs to get quickly turned around in her mind so the only question she is worried about is "Will he take me back?"
I really cannot tell work - I am going to wait and see if the polygraph will get it out first
If she gets fired from work - we will forclose on the house at the beginning of april
Her MIL who has no $ would be trying to support WS.
This could also look bad on me if it went to court and it was shown that my revealing this business caused loss of income which affects her taking care of her son.
Some states do not consider affairs in divorce cases.
I really do not feel comfortable playing that card as I think it is not safe for my family
Yes, it is time for you to be the best you've ever been in her eyes. Strong, confident, caring, loving, etc. Don't fight, but fight for your family. Always keep that distinction very clear.
Remember that your exposure of her A is not what would get her fired. It's her actions that she already chose to take that would be her undoing. And believe me, she has had to make careful, deliberate, and intentional decisions to be involved with her OM. You are not to blame from the fallout of her A.
MB - tell me this
What is the MB stance on WS saying to themselves "I will divorce and save face - there are other fish in the sea"
I would tell you that this is a knee-jerk reaction to feeling the sting of being caught. You cannot let this deter you from continuing to fight this A. The alternative is to let the A continue, and you will soon find yourself in a D anyway.
The truth is waywards usually don't do that, Meh. The wayward desire is usually to have their cake and eat it, too. In other words, they'd like to keep everything they have and will usually not abandon either spouse or the other person (OP). When the affair shrivels up and dies due to exposure or to time and reality setting in, the betrayed spouse is typically all they have left. Usually they don't want to take the first step toward divorce.
Of course, nobody can prevent their spouse from divorcing no matter what the circumstances.
Usually a woman will not divorce unless there is someone waiting in the wings.
WS has called her mom - her mom just called me (she has divorced twice)
Her mom is saying that if WS gets fired from her job this will put financial burden on her. She is saying that even if I find out the truth there is no recovering from this now. She says that if I don't know the truth then WS will divorce me for being crazy and that if the truth is told then there will be no way to recover.
Financial burden? Then maybe she shouldn't have had a work affair.
Don't listen to this baloney, Meh.
MB - tell me this
What is the MB stance on WS saying to themselves "I will divorce and save face - there are other fish in the sea"
You ask her if she loves her son.
You remind her that you two will be in contact with each other for THE REST OF YOUR LIFE because of your son, graduations, weddings, funerals, birthdays EVERYTHING....
even if you divorce.
You ask her if it's not true that the BEST thing for your son is to grow up with both of his parents 100% of the time and who are in love with each other.
You tell her that you know how to do this.
You tell her you love her and can forgive her and are ready to start rebuilding your M and it starts with the truth.
Jim
Remember that you are only 2 days since finding out. You are riding the same rollercoaster we have already been on. These will be the craziest, surreal next few days of your entire life.
Do not be afraid of anything! Fight for you family and you will have the very best results. Unfortunately, I cannot tell you how it will turn out, but it will be the best for you and your family by continuing to fight for what is right.
I told my FWW, "What you have done to me is forgiveable. What you are doing to your kids is not."
I really cannot tell work - I am going to wait and see if the polygraph will get it out first
Meh, if you wait, it will dilute the effect.
Why not tell them now there was an emotional affair, and tell them again when you find out more? Or tell them you suspect it was more.
Have you thought of any other evidence you might could find of the affair being physical? Any other proof you might be able to round up?
OK everyone - I am out with a little bit be back later this evening
Stay strong. You can get through this!
Well, Meh, it's been a helluva coupla days, hasn't it?
Here's the good news (and you've probably gotten a hint of this from the postings since my last one):
THERE ARE NO ORIGINAL WAYWARD SPOUSE STATEMENTS OR ACTIONS!
They all extract and execute from the same play-book. We have heard it all before.
Your best play right now is to complete the full, nuclear, exposure. Her management at work is KEY. Siblings, especially sisters, turn out to be hugely important. Girlfriends, classmates, her clergy, ALL of these have to be contacted.
The contact is not of the form of "You know what the b%#@%h I'm married to has done?"
The contact is of the form of "My wife has been conducting an affair with a co-worker. I am asking you if you have any influence over her to emphasize to her that I am committed to doing what can be done to repair our marriage. If you need to contact me, I can be reached at XXX-YYY-ZZZZ. Thank you."
DO NOT BACK DOWN FROM THE POLY. (Actually, the more she resists, the less you need it. Eventually, with or without the poly, your next call will be to a physician for a full set of STD screens for the two of you. You'll know that the "only an EA" was as much a fiction as all those "study sessions" she had away from home.)
HERE IS THE BEST THING YOU MUST REMEMBER: This is not your fault. Your WW decided to go outside her marriage for things that are only to be found within your marriage. The shame is hers entirely. She has NO RIGHT to expect forgiveness.
I am completely broke - crying harder than I ever have before.
She has left - packed up clothes and gone to her moms.
I called my dad and told him about MB and he said it sounds cultish but he will read up on it.
I told my best friend and he thinks its extreme.
Her mom said whether she takes the polygraph, fails or not - she is leaving me. Thats what she told her mom.
Everyone is saying I have lost it. She is mad I contacted her friends. They are all saying I am acting crazy.
You are not wrong to expose this affair. If she is leaving, it is not because of the exposure. You are doing nothing extreme, nor have you lost it.
She is acting crazy for having an affair. You are doing everything possible to kill the affair so that your M has a chance.
Following the principles of a professional is not cultish. It is sound practical advice.
everyone is telling to take a step back
How many of those had to fight an affair and try to save their family?
Do not forget that you are the victim here, and your wife is the crazy one for putting her family on the chopping block for another married man at her workplace!
Any person with common sense would realize that she would likely lose her job and her family over her actions.
YOU are the victim.
They don't know what they are talking about but don't tell them.
Just stick to your guns/plan and be brave.
It is very upsetting to be betrayed but to then need to be brave and to implement a logical step by step plan.....especially when the wayward blows up with anger at their secret fantasy being exposed....even with family members questioning your tactics and motives.
They do not get to decide how you deal with betrayel. You do. Only you.
Those of us who are here on the forum have experienced the stuff you are experiencing and followed the plan back to self respect and sanity. Have any of your in real life support system ever done it for themselves?
Be strong.
We aren't a cult.....unless you want to say we are a 'cult' of people who follow logic in place of following whims of our gut feelings to react before thinking.
Marriage builders is logical. Its not a guarantee to anything but finding kernels of peace of mind along the way.
Have any of your in real life support system ever done it for themselves?
no
I feel like she needs to read this
Well my dad and his wife have both told me how wrong and insulting it is to ask someone to take a lie detector test. I feel like she needs to read this.
I need to talk to someone
Hello Meh,
If you have read my thread you know I have recovered my M.
You also will have read that not all of my family agreed with the MB principles including no contact for life.
Without MB we would have divorced.
Your M can survive your WW's anger and some of your family's disapproval...
It will NOT survive an ongoing affair.
MB works.
I have a very blunt question for your parents and any others that disagree with finding out if the affair was physical...
Do they want you to bet your life that your wife has not been exposed to life altering and life ending STD's like HIV - AIDS?
Do they want to GUESS who their grandchildren's father's may be?
You MUST know the truth about the affair and this is the only way you will EVER know.
Mrs.Flint would NEVER have confessed the affair with MY OWN BROTHER without the prospect of having to take a polygraph.
Why would she?
Jim
No, don't send her here to read this. You will lose this board as a resource.
We cannot help you if you can't control your emotions and stick to a plan. We have saved our marriages, Meh, your friends have not.
Can you calm yourself down and stick to a plan? If you can't put your emotions aside and follow a plan, you are probably not going to make it.
Well my dad and his wife have both told me how wrong and insulting it is to ask someone to take a lie detector test. I feel like she needs to read this.
Please stop taking advice from people who don't know how to save marriages. I know they mean well,but they do not know how to save marriages. Dr Harley is a clinical psychologist who has saved THOUSANDS of marriages and he advocates polygraph tests. [he discussed this on his radio show yesterday:
here
Meh, based on her reaction right now, she is incapable of understanding any of this and having empathy for your situation. In her mind, your M was in shambles, you probably abused her emotionally, the M was going to end anyway.....well, you get the idea.
Your W is in a fog. This exposure is a bucket of cold water being poured on her.
When my FWW was in the fog, I exposed to her friends and had discussions with the OMW. If I had not done this, my wife said she would have went ahead with D so that she could be with OM. My exposure brought her back to reality.
Food for thought.....
I am completely broke - crying harder than I ever have before.
She has left - packed up clothes and gone to her moms.
I called my dad and told him about MB and he said it sounds cultish but he will read up on it.
I told my best friend and he thinks its extreme.
Her mom said whether she takes the polygraph, fails or not - she is leaving me. Thats what she told her mom.
Everyone is saying I have lost it. She is mad I contacted her friends. They are all saying I am acting crazy.
This is early in the game, Meh. Don't put a lot of stock in what your WW says right now. Your dad thinks MB is cultish because it's a bunch of strangers online. Ignore that.
Your BF thinks it's extreme because he's never had to deal with infidelity. Ignore that.
Your WW hasn't been honest with you. That's the only reason she's blown away by your suggestion of a polygraph - she thought she could get away with it. Stupid you, right? WRONG.
And keep in mind, we are real people here, and quite "normal" thank you. I am a happily married man with a few young children, graduate-school education, never even sent to the principal's office in high school, donate to the local schools, and I pay my taxes on time. Now does that sound like a cult member?
I have followed the principles here, and I have been through two A's, one by myself and one by my wife. We have been in your shoes before. Don't follow bad advice from those who have no idea how to treat the addiction of A's.
Well my dad and his wife have both told me how wrong and insulting it is to ask someone to take a lie detector test. I feel like she needs to read this.
You know what's wrong and insulting? For someone who vowed to love you and stay with you to have an affair! That's what's wrong! Are you kidding me? Are your parents your WW attorneys??????
OMG, Meh! Your wife is screwing around with another man and they think it's wrong for
you to get the whole story???? WHAT???
I'm getting a headache.
What are you saying, Meh?
Meh,
You have great people helping you here. Stay the course - they know the script your WW is following better than she does.
I would say she is blustering, trying desparately to win the favor of anyone to help divert you from finding out the truth. The saying a good offense is the best defense comes to mind.
I can really sympathize with your situation as can many on here. You know what she is trying to do - paint you as the crazy guy. Expose far and wide before she can get to everyone.
I did insist that my W take a polygraph. I got tired real quick of the lying and finally said let's cut to the chase - take a Poly or I'm going Plan D ASAP. She took it and I found out a few things, but it was a turning point. Insist on that Poly.
I would also be wary that she may try to keep your DS at her mom's and try to stop you from seeing him. You need very much to start working a plan for many reasons, including preventing this if you can. Working on a plan will divert your mind and prepare you.
Your W reminds me a lot of mine. She will try to puff up and bluster and scare you away from questioning her. But really inside she is scared to death. Her MO seems to be a big bark to scare others away. My W has tried that too, but you know what worked best - being calm and assertive and not engaging in heated arguments. Refusing to argue and literally saying "I am fighting for my marriage" and "want a cookie" when I wanted to blast her verbally did wonders for her and me.
You can do this. Stay the course.
A person who is telling the truth should be glad to have the opportunity to take a polygraph in order to clear her name. A person who has much to hide would run from it. And a dishonest WW who has much to hide will feign outrage over being asked in order to manipulate her BS into feeling guilty for asking. Don't fall for it, Meh!
I am completely broke - crying harder than I ever have before.
She has left - packed up clothes and gone to her moms.
I am so sorry, friend. Shoot me an email any time you think it will help.
This is not over, Meh. Not by any means. Waywards go CRAZY when an affair is exposed. This means you are striking close to the target. It is as if an alien is infesting her brain, you are hitting it with exactly the right frequency to kill it, and the alien has gone ape throwing a fit and going ballistic because it knows you can hurt it.
There's a virus in there that can be cured, but it is going to throw a fit and try to HURT YOU to stop you from taking the steps necessary to kill it. And it's going to attempt to hurt you emotionally.
You shot out of the gate like lightning doing all of the right things. Don't give up now. Read up on the plans here and the people who have been through this. You have a very VERY good chance to recover things based on what you did today, compared to a lot of people I've seen go through here taking FOREVER to get up and do something about the problem (while the affair grows stronger).
Her mom said whether she takes the polygraph, fails or not - she is leaving me. Thats what she told her mom.
Meh, waywards say all kinds of insane bull. It is almost like they are reading from a script. Every one of them says pretty much the exact same things "Oh, no; you've gone and done it, now! I was going to reconcile with you, but now you've ruined your last chance!" {AS IF YOU ARE THE ONE WHO SHOULD BE BEGGING FOR ANOTHER CHANCE AT THIS POINT. SHE SHOULD BE BEGGING YOU.}
Everyone is saying I have lost it. She is mad I contacted her friends. They are all saying I am acting crazy.
They'll say anything to support her. They are not friends of your marriage; they'll encourage her to go right on destroying your marriage and children. Tragically there are millions of people like this.
Plan A, Meh. Calm down, control your emotions, and follow the plan here. Do some reading.
You know you've struck a nerve. The affair, the virus inside her, is running strong. All of this stuff means you are WINNING, Meh, if you can keep a handle on things and stay the course.
What's happening, Meh? I'm worried about you and hoping to hear from you.
Poor guy... his wife works with the jerk. Not good.