I found a link written by several posters that describes what the wayward spouse is thinking or not thinking during an affair...does anyone know where i would find that....it wasnt satiracle it was real thoughts and feelings

Do you mean this one?

Inside the Wayward Mind

Most of these posts can be found in the Announcements/Important Information Forum under the "Notable Posts/Threads" section.

What they are thinking is foggy and is about as relevant as the "thoughts" of a falling down drunk who is high on booze.

What they are thinking is foggy and is about as relevant as the "thoughts" of a falling down drunk who is high on booze.

Agreed, when considering the "thoughts" of waywards as expressions of reality. But it is of some value to understand the machinations that waywards go through in justifying and grounding their own illicit actions, if only to better refute and correct them. Admittedly, this is likely only applicable during a "recovery" action under the aegis of O & H.

Stretch123 is fighting that battle now with his WW, and from his recent posts, it seems that his careful refutations of her "foggy" imaginings may actually be getting through to her.

In my own case my WW vehemently maintained that I had been more absent from home in the year before she strayed than in the years immediately preceeding. It was only when I gave her serious proof of the fallacy of that belief that she began to understand that it was not my absence that had increased, but her need for my presence.

On the principle that knowledge is power, then, it would appear self-evident that knowing what one's WS is "thinking" would be of great value in changing/correcting it. Sun-tsu must have had something to say about that.........

(Or maybe George Carlin?)

That was not what i was looking for there were two posts that i was thinking of one seemed like multiple posters and they were the wayward spouse talking about what was going on during their affair. I remember it was a format of question from bs and answer from the ws. This was from the vantage point of recovery and was a very good post, at least for myself.
The other post was a letter written from the other woman about how much havoc she made and was sorry and how no matter what things were not going to work out.....

Why are you starting a new thread when you have plenty to answer to on your existing thread. Any news about exposing yet?

Just in case you can't find your thread here is your link

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/u...in=164325&Number=2537097#Post2537097

Is it true the deeper they are in fogbabble to more likely they still have love for their spouse?

My girlfriend said if they are indifferent and can be honest with the BS then they really don't have any love. The deeper the fog means the more they internally are struggling with the love they have for the BS.

It is a struggle with long term love and romantic love. Both love is present at the same time and they both conflict with each other.

Trying, it is real important to not get distracted by fog babble. What is important T the future of your marriage is what YOU are thinking. What is important is YOUR agenda. I wouldn't get distracted by trying to find out what she is thinking because that is a distraction from taking effective action to save your marriage. You won't find a plan to save your marriage in her foggy thinking.

so this is my plan
exposure, which is done......made her evil mad and accuse me of putting her friends in a bad place


now plan a
being the best husband i can possibly be, trying to feel good and be happy while trying to meet any emotional needs i possibly can and using a shotgun approach to emotional needs and filling every darn one i possibly can.....being the best father i possibly can planning on taking the kids places and doing things and inviting her to come with us.....if she doesnt want to then go alone

do this for another 4-5mts

plan for plan b


dealing with her has been difficult i really have to controll my anger
it sometimes makes its way out

i have saa and lovebusters which i am working on and his neeeds her needs for parents which i havent gotten to yet...


she has told me multiple times that she wants a divorce and has already met with an attorney.....i just keep saying i dont want a divorce, its going to be bad for the kids and its not going to be as nice as you think....her attorney said fees for divorce range from 40k to 200k.......my jaw dropped, i think that is to keep me from litigating it........i live in a no fault state..........
she frequently is using rage from my previous affair as the reason i am f ed up

how do you contact the harleys.....

You can email Dr. Harley and Joyce's radio program at:

mbradio@marriagebuilders.com
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/mb2.cfm?recno=12

If you don't hear back within a couple of business days, check your spam folder, and if you are still not getting through, click the notify button and ask the moderators to help get your message through.

thank you marcos
I assume from my reading that plan a is done while the a is going on..... If she has already started the ball rolling with the lawyers should i pare down my time frame.
I would assume that a divorce will take4-6 mts..... so what do you think is the best course of action

Did you complete your exposures? The last I checked, you had not exposed to the OWs employer and other key exposure targets. Of course exposure made her angry, you surely expected that. The goal here is to save your marriage, not to avoid her anger at all costs. Exposure always makes them mad, that is good.

I did expose to everyone i could get a hold of 2 people contacted her and she has written them off as friends, because they would not go along with her ideas of what she wanted in life. The third just said i see where u are coming from....have you thought this through? And you know that when you let him go there will be women all over him.....This is my wife telling me what her friend said to her. And it didnt phase her. She seems to be getting more cold in her stance in what she wants.. She wants to go back to school which i have been supportive of and am trying to meet any emotional needs possible especially conversation which is something we werent so good at.
She says she in another "relationship" and that it is not right for us to be married, to which i just fog back that i dont want a divorce!!!!
She has told me repeatedly that she wants me to be that boy from 20 years ago that plays softball and hangs with his friends then comes and kisses her in the bleachers then runs back to her friends....
what the hell is that about?

delayed childhood!

yeah thats what i was thinking but i am now older and maturer and have responsibilities.....i am not the carefree let it fly person that i was 20 years ago....i have lots of people who rely on me to be a functioning member of life

none of us are hun, it really seems that she is off on her own little fantasy.

That boy who kissed her on the bleachers is still there, he can come out to play sometimes, but he also has to be a grown up too. Does she still want to be a full time teen? Sorry not possible!!

Such games have a place, but not full time, as you said you have responsibilities and are a grown up.

Thank you for your post Tanam.....
I am just at such a loss, i feel like i have lost my best friend.
I am a good man! I am a good person! I am a good father! but i will admit I could be a better husband......she has really got me second guessing myself...
I can conciously see that she is in fantasy land....
But I am so damn emotional, i need to controll it.
I think i am doing a much better job in front of her, but then go to work and stay on this site all day, never have i done so much reading in my life.

Ha ha I know that feeling. I spent many work hours here too. But that will lessen.

It takes time, listen to the vets, breathe, eat and exercise, not sure of your timeline, but by working on you you make and keep yourself strong.

My experiences have made me strong, more in control and in a place where whatever happens, I will be fine.

That didn't happen overnight tho. Look at how you can be a better husband, talk to her about what she would like to do/go to/eat. Keep things easy....

AND THEN DO WHAT THE VETS TELL YOU TO DO!

IN THE ORDER THEY TELL YOU TO DO IT!

WHATEVER HAPPENS, THAT WAY YOU WILL COME OUT OF THIS THE OTHERSIDE WITH YOUR HEALTH.

Honest hun, you are not helping by trying to wriggle, Plan A - Carrot and stick - link on Peps posts.

DO IT - then you can schedule in a pity party.....AFTERWARDS

Tanam
Excuse me for being an absolute dunce.....what do you mean by wriggle?
And how do i link to peps posts???

Can you please just answer this question directly? And not try to wiggle around it

DID YOU EXPOSE TO THE OW SIDE? Her employers and her family not only your WW side?

IMHO until you do that side of things your just going round in circles with little direction.

I know your hurting and this is hard but it's not going to get any easier until you burst this fantasy your WW and OW are in.

You have been in your WW shoes you know what it's like to be in lala land so why are you resisting acting on the advice you know makes sense?

Come on you...........use the search at the top of the page, enter Pepperband click, then click a link at the end of her posts.

Surely you are able to do that.

Now, make a hot drink, pick up the phone and do it.

If I had I would have saved myself 5 YEARS of not worth remembering.

Call her family. Tell them your side and what you want.

Big boy pants time hun

did the search thing and came up with no results
could you go to Pepperbands name and add to watched users, would that do the same thing???
i have not gotten any results from the search the site button

crap i found it thanks

Stay close to your true Friends......get some counseling.....get some medication if you need it.....I DID!
I still need meds to sleep well.
READ all you can on this MB site!!
RELY on those who know what they're doing here!
For me....time feels SO SLOW since I found out my WW was in an affair!.....seems like 7 long months, it's been 7 weeks!
One day at a time......one day at a time.

thanks Bill, she talks to me alright....her father was in to see me the other day which is odd because he wanted his info sent somewhere else.....we small talked for a half hour. when he left he told my wife that i looked really tired....her response was i am not responsible for him?????
She is so pleasant to be around.....i would call her a knucklehead but that would be mean...

Thanks again Bill
I am taking it one day at a time

I posted on YOUR thread so you could find me.

thanks pep

Well doing the best plan a I can after I picked up my son last night ordered dinner out which is thurs. Deal but last night w a twist, I tried to make it really special....lit candels had everything ready when she got home from vball with daughter which was late. Bottle of wine, everything was great, conversation everything....then I put my daughter to bed, which for some reason is stressful to ww. I of course fell asleep, I am a man, ww came in and woke me up to tell me that although that dinner was nice, and out of character, it didn't change her mind, she still wanted a divorce.....but she doesn't want me out of the house? I think this is because she knows life is going to drastically change. Get harder.......what the hell do I do, let her tear me apart during a divorce, and continue living in the same house, or stay until she files then leave???? Any ideas will be appreciated

I guess I need to remember the marathon......
Should I also think of the divorce as the ultimate plan b?????
I am pissed the kids don't deserve this

Argggg how do I get rid of love busters
Just had arguement.....she says lawyer is going to make me sign papers that say I won't lible ow.
I respond my lawyer is drawing up papers so that ow is not to see or contact my children until they are 18
That is how I feel but still lb
How do I get to the point where I just let it slide off

How and when are the same ....

When you become smarter and actually WORK plan A, and you commit to responding with your Plan .... instead of going to your fall back habit of making reactionary responses.

Do you actually *think* you can "win the argument" right now? Any argument?


If you cannot control yourself, it usually indicates you are attempting to control your wayward.

Stop it.

I guess so ..... But, more importantly, you need to educate yourself on the MB Plans. You're doing a poor job right now.



No.
Have you read up on Plan B?
Methinks (because you even ask this question) you have been too busy trying to argue your way through this and have failed to study/really understand the MB plans.


No one deserves adultery.

Thanks I feel like an axx

Well I took a well needed weekend of of feeling responsible pep your last post really hit home, I can only controll me the things she does and says right now, i dont want to controll and cannot controll.......you are right i was trying to guide responses and acting reactionary.....bad bad bad.
so I just responeded with love this weekend and it felt good being in controll for once....the soft voice thing works for me.....it reminds me either not to fire back, or and i dont know if this is right to respond with you are right that must be it, in a happy loving way.......her mother got on her case for having a relationship while she was still married and i think that hit home for her......she has also been apologizing alot lately, but is still thinking ow is still the One. I just keep saying yep, yep, yep. she was trying to explain to me why my affair was just an affair, but her's was so much more. all fogg babble...i get it...I sent her a card in the mail, telling her i wasnt giving up and i knows she likes when i send her cards......I bought about 20 at the store the other day and planned on sending her one about once a week, but she has stepped up at least verbally her divorce talk.......which i plann on delaying as long as possible.....I read a really great thread about plan a from schoolbus and ark and am trying not to be reactionary.......any other helpful hints!!!

This is exactly what i needed to hear
p. 98 L.B.
How could I convince sam that he could completely overcome angry outbursts without Jill making any change in her behavior? And to go one step further, how could i convince him that unless he took full responsibility for hes angry outbursts, he could not controll them?

I think the light is going on

Ok here is a good one.....
She told me she still wants a divorce but wants me to live in the house until the end of the school year, of course for the kids......I told her I didnt think I could do that, I talked to her 2 hours later and she reiterated that she thought we could do it...
is this a cake eater or what.....
she just wants to be my friend??

"She told me she still wants a divorce but wants me to live in the house until the end of the school year, of course for the kids......I told her I didnt think I could do that, I talked to her 2 hours later and she reiterated that she thought we could do it...
is this a cake eater or what.....
she just wants to be my friend??"

RIDICULOUS.

Trying...you said:

"I read a really great thread about plan a from schoolbus and ark and am trying not to be reactionary.......any other helpful hints!!!"

No, no new "hints". Specific plans? Yes, and they are laid out right in front of you.

Pep said this:

"Methinks (because you even ask this question) you have been too busy trying to argue your way through this and have failed to study/really understand the MB plans."

Trying...try to not think about these silly actions and silly results from WS that take a paragraph to write, but rather the big picture goal defined by hour-by-hour activities by you and only you.

Your actions are what is focused on here.

t/j Surfer, I just wanted to mention that I think you're doing a great job! I know there was an unfortunate thread going earlier with a poster who wasn't able to incorporate Marriage Builders into her healing and is now seeing the affects of that. But please keep doing what you're doing, because you're doing great! t/j

There are days when i just lose it......
My ww is so adamate that ow is what she wants, it makes me nuts...and wildly emotional. Sitting at work with tears in eyes, trying to be the boss and a service provider..it all just sucks. Last night I was told that ow was flying in on wed to spend laybor day weekend with her. ww would pick her up from airport drop her at hotel (i assume) then come home and put children to bed, then drive the hour back to hotel.11pm+ Then be at the house at lets say 6am to get the children ready for school then disappear again....And I have to endure this on thurs, and Fri.... I dont think its fair to take the kids out of school they just started last week and will have tests....At least on friday i can go to the other house where i actually have people i can talk to. I am trying

well my actions in front of my wife were to say nothing ok, ok, ok......when she asked me how i could be ok with all this, I said I am not, I dont want this,,,,"That bitXX had to fly in on wed???? just sounds like her doesnt it" And she replied with a sheepish yeah. I told her maybe wed after school i will just take the kids to the other house. Which she pleaded with me not to do. they have tests and will miss so much....She is feeling like a poor mother right now, but not a poor wife.

Can anybody tell me if i responded wrong.....Is there anything in there that could have been less judgemental, any love busters just trying to follow mb.....

Trying,

Start to focus on you. When you are healthy you have a better stance of returning that kindness to her.

The best is to respond with complete no brainer issues.

WW: Are you okay with this?
BH: No I want to save the marriage, would you like to go to the farmers market on Thursday night with the kids and I? We are low on apples and blueberries.

WW: I am in love with this other woman why can't you accept that.
BH: I really want to save this marriage, the kids want to watch the movie Toy Story this weekend. Would you like to join us, we are going on Saturday and then a picnic in the park.

Keep it fresh and simple even though you are dying inside. Shut down your emotions to the alien. Simply smile nice, smell good, and come here to rant, vent, curse, yell, or whatever you need to do to get the pain off your chest.

Make Plan A about changing you. You cannot make any sense with her. Talking to her is like talking to a two year old. Look at her as child that cannot be reasoned with.

Try and keep everyone together under one roof. It is your best option to save the marriage.

thanks again ITL....I do neeed work to make myself healthy...some days are so easy and i smile and laugh, was telling jokes to her the other day and then she bombs me like berlin....
Thanks agains for the encouragement....

OK I really think I. Am going to get shelled for asking this...
If my wife is determined to get a d, and I can convince her that my eyes are wide open to the affair, I don't condone it, but I want to stay and wait it out for a while, would you guys consider that enabeling, or allowing more time for plan a or both.....I am just trying to stay in house w no d for a while

Complete enabling - Stick to the Plan

Plan A for as long as you can - hopefully six months, then go into Plan B. If she files for divorce then you protect yourself to the full extent of the law.

It is hard to see at the moment because you are not in your right mind. Stick to the plan, and do not deviate.

This affair will die--it is just when????

Most affairs will not last more than six months will full exposure.

Get off your AZZ and EXPOSE this wide and far. OW's work and all friends, family, facebook friends. Go FAR!!!!

My Alien won't even talk to me!! or answer email/texts.
She's mad at me......I exposed her affair to everyone.
According to my Alien WW....SHE is the injured party.


Mine acts like a 17 year old......she got her apartment in May and acts like an idiot adolescent.

Thanks itl....she was just blasting me today for saying things to her friend....who blasted her for lying to her and not telling her the truth. My brother took her to task, at his own wedding....she feels alienated, which she did herself...she still is mad and I can't help but smirk, it is empowering....she says she wants everything from our marriage except the intamacy....I told her I couldn't accept that.

I am trying to believe that this is fog babble....but part if me tells me it is ptsd from my previous affair and that I damaged her too much.
This me hoping that we are savable.

Ok this is killin me right now, and i know i should expect nothing else, but i noticed she hasn't been wearing her wedding ring the past couple of days.....
I have not taken mine off for the last 3 years except when my 9yo daughter asks to see it. it is absolutely killing me....so i tried to take mine off and it lasted half a day. I really really want her to want me and am getting depressed....I know it is not possible right now....
today she said all she wants from me is to be a good father to my kids!!!!! Think that is one of her emotional needs??
any any feedback is appreciated...even if it is with a 2x4

posting to vent again:::::
today she asked me to lunch out..... ok.....at some point she said she hasnt heard from her lawyer even though left him a couple mess. asked me if i have heard from mine told her no....
she said she hasnt deceided what to do but to let her know if i felt taken advantage of, or have changed my mind....
she is also taking much more adavan for her panic attacks/anxiety, like she is begenning to gain a conscience..but is still determined that they're soul mates. makes me sick. am trying to stay focused when i am around her but she can read me like a book, and knows the look in my eyes is distant....

So here is the kind of support I get from the inlaws.....ow is supposed to fly in today so they pick up my kids and bring dinner so ww can pick up ow at airport...
Argg

I keep telling myself, she is an alien and somewhere there is a woman who loves you

selfish venting....was my response appropriate????

So we are having a conversation last night w/o kids where she says she loves our "arrangement". Where she doesnt really have to be my wife just my roomate. Then she asks "Dont you think this is better, I do"
To which i just replied NO then walked away.
She seemed deflated at the time.

Was that an appropriate response, or should i have followed it up with "i have no desire to be your roomate only your husband"

And more venting......I think i am getting it!!!

So I go home for lunch, like i do every day. She has bought salads from wendys or somewhere for us....we are in the middle of a conversation when she says....I just have to say this again, about how angry and hurt i am from your affair.... and she gets into it again with me about how she cannot be intimate again w me and how i broke the trust in our marriage and i get agitated and the only thing i say is why am i here then......and thats when it hits me like right in the face, I AM LOSING CONTROLL. So I was reading one of pepperbands posts this morning, cause i did about 8 hours of reading in 3. and I sat and breathed for 15 seconds and let her burn out, it was amazing she wasnt done, she burned, and burned and at the end she said i know i am not doing this right and i should be ashamed of myself and that anyone looking at this from the outside would think i am wrong...but i cant help it....i am finally happy....i was trying to fake it until i made it w you and it wasnt working....and here is the big part, she apologixed for not being able to just get over it......and i looke at her and grabbed her hand and said, I LOVE YOU MORE NOW THAN I EVER HAVE. I KNOW YOU ARE NOT READY OR WILLING TO HEAR THIS BUT I KNOW THERE IS A WAY TO SAVE OUR MARRIAGE BUT IT IS NOT WHAT WE HAVE BEEN DOING IN THE PAST. THERE IS A WAY TO HAPPINESS FOR US TOGETHER. WHEN THIS RELATIONSHIP YOU ARE IN CRASHES, AND I THINK IT WILL.....IF YOU GUYS MAKE IT 50 YRS GOOD FOR YOU, BUT WHEN IT CRASHES. PLEASE RE-EVALUATE US BECAUSE I KNOW THE WAY......

It was all said with a calm cool collected voice and i really dont know how i did it.....she tried to pick a fight and i didnt fall for it, and turned it into something good

OK I guess what I am asking is what if I am still the FWH and she is still in incredible amounts of pain from my 7 month affair 3.5 years ago...is there anything I can do to help her get past the constant pain????? Or do you think I am just believeing her fog babble???

Yeah i know i am all over the place....
I am having a really bad night.
have resorted to my 2nd best friend a bottle of white wine
dont know why i really hate white prefer red
ww is with friend for the weekend
guess i have something to associate with labor day now
just great memories...........arg

I'm with you Pal......as you my Wife won't even talk to me.
Do it right!!......stay with the MB program!!!
PS: Gin & Tonic is my choice when I need some "internal fortitude".
Today was a G&T day.

hey bill how did you put your info at the bottom of your post.....
you know your age her age and such

Today she rolls in just b4 6am and let me tell you, she is a mess......feels like she is letting her family down(she is) she actually said I miss my kids and I miss being a family....but i dont think i can be close to you again.....to which i broken record, we can there is a program that will work for us... and she says she is a broken person, to which i reply....dont worry i am here for you....so we get the kids up and to school and every friday is kids mass at school, and she wants to go.........we sit through mass and at the sign of the peace, she kisses me on the lips( which she hasnt done since about the beginning of july:) after communion she is visibly shaken and says again I am a broken person.....And i put my arm around her and say we can make it through this, dont you underestimate me.....
So i'd say it was a good morning.....I am doing my best to be her light house..

SO I AM REALLY ASKING FOR HELP

How do I be less of an enabeler

She is gone for the holiday wknd she wanted to take one of the kids w her and I would not let her expose the children to the ow. Should I have made her take my 9yo.........I don't think the children should ever b exposed