I haven't posted here for sometime because there was nothing to report. But last week, something happened that I need some advice. Let me explain:
H and I were at a social function when one of the ladies there, took my H aside and with me a few feet away she started whispering and updating H about OW's recent life situation.I could overhear a few things so I knew exactly what she was saying. I got very angry but kept my cool and did not approach her at that time because I would have exploded. Well, I exploded, but H paid the price.
My initial reaction was not to confront this woman, but now I think I must mainly because :
a) I view this as a total lack of respect for me
b) this woman knows about what her best friend ( the bimbo in case) has done.
c) this woman knows that we issued a restraining order against the bimbo last year and
d) mainly because this woman had given me her word that she would help us turn the bimbo away if she happened to show up at our doorstop at a cetain function we were having at our house.
So I do not understand why she felt compelling to tell H about the bimbo with me standing practically next to them.
If I do not confront her, she may do this same thing again and things will escalate. Not to mention that I will not allow anyone to disrespect me ever again.
I will be firm , not angry, but convey the message that this behavior will not be tolerated ever again.
I should say here that H has not had any contact with the bimbo for over a year. Once in a great while he sees her at some social functions ,but they do not talk, and that is the extend of it.
What do you think? Should I or should I not confront this woman? Please explain.
Thanks for the input
Well I can't understand it either, esspecially because she was going to protect your marraige last year is bimbo ever showed up at your house..
It seems that she doesn't know her boundaries, or respect yours either, or your marraige.
I feel you should confront her, and maybe with your H, decide to keep her out of your life, and your circle of friends.
Some people are just dense and also very toxic to let in on your personal life, and just interested in the drama of other people, not realizing the damage they can inflict.
Or maybe realizing the damage they are inflicting and they just don't give a darn?
I should say here that H has not had any contact with the bimbo for over a year. Once in a great while he sees her at some social functions ,but they do not talk, and that is the extend of it.
Wow! As long as they still see each other, your problem is not this woman but that your marriage has never even BEGUN recovery. As long as he still has contact with the OW recovery is impossible.
This friend who talked about your husbands girlfriend is the least of your problems. She knows you aren't serious so neither is she.
If you decide to ever get serious about recovering your marriage, then STEP ONE is no contact with the OW. You haven't even taken step one.
You and your husband socialize with the OW's best friend? That is amazing. It is obvious that your social life takes great precedence over your marriage.
Why in the world would you run in the same social circles?
We do not socialize with the OW's best friend. We were at a social function and we were surprised to see her there. I was NOT going to leave because the OW's friend just showed up. No way!!!!!
The same is true with H seeing the bimbo at social functions. We never know when she will be there nor does she know when we'll be there. Many times she has left simply because I was there. She hates my guts.
The question was whether I should confront her or not. There is more to the story than what I posted. This was just an outline.
I wouldn't confront her. Why expect her to be more serious than you? Just the fact that you and your husband attend the same social functions and even STAY when you see the OW tells me how serious you really are: not at all.
If you dont take no contact seriously you can't expect others to. And obviously your husband does socialize with the OWs friends, you just witnessed it.
Have you ever considered recovering your marriage?
I guess I dont understand why its wrong for the OWs friend to talk about the OW to your husband but its OK for you and your H to go to the same events with the OW?
That makes no sense to me.
We do not socialize with the OW's best friend. We were at a social function and we were surprised to see her there. I was NOT going to leave because the OW's friend just showed up. No way!!!!!
The same is true with H seeing the bimbo at social functions. We never know when she will be there nor does she know when we'll be there. Many times she has left simply because I was there. She hates my guts.
The question was whether I should confront her or not. There is more to the story than what I posted. This was just an outline.
So maybe you can explain it better, and explain why the social functions are so important.
Am I right that this friend, is the best friend of the OW? The friend who talked to your husband? The same one who was going to keep bimbo away from your home?
Sorry, but that stinks to high heaven of duel purposes of staying in contact with your family, and again, of boundaries being crossed, that are none of her concern. She sounds dense enough to believe she is helping, while playing with fire, and other peoples lives.
You need to expose this affair and the danger it presents to your social group, and let them know that it is not acceptable to you, that bimbo has any contact at all with your Husband.
You deserve that respect
These social functions are more important than the recovery of her marriage. They must be very very important.
These social functions are more important than the recovery of her marriage. They must be very very important.
Not to sound like a smart azz, but it would have to be something that had to do with high politics, or head of state stuff, to make it more important than the safty of my marriage.
No contact with past affair partners, none, nada, zilch...The relationship was wrong, toxic, a fantasy, an escape, and the very thought of what went on between the two of them, should turn thier stomach.
Oh we know how it is, everybody says,"You should just get over it", "life goes on", and "Grow up". But that leaves open the possibility of the affair starting up again, if the right situation presents itself, and they are looking for an escape again.
If we are truly going to "grow up", we must realize that this is true, and we are weak also as human beings. anybody who knows that, will understand that they should never be around each other, and those that pretend that they are stronger than that,are simply not willing to admit that they are not.
so what relationship is more important? your friends or your best friend, your Husband?
Not to sound like a smart azz, but it would have to be something that had to do with high politics, or head of state stuff, to make it more important than the safty of my marriage.
NOPE, not even then.
Lost, listen to ML. STEP ONE No Contact with OW FOR LIFE.
Have you ever read the story of GloveOil? He is a FWH. He posts, and he talks about how he had tried to end the A when it was an EA, but seeing the OW over time, it started again.
If you don't want to take our word for it, call DrH at the radio show. There is advice all over these boards from DrH himself that tells people they can no longer go to family functions when the OP was a family member. No weddings, no funerals, NOTHING. What could these social events be that would be more important than those events?
... H and I were at a social function when one of the ladies there, took my H aside and with me a few feet away she started whispering and updating H about OW's recent life situation. I could overhear a few things so I knew exactly what she was saying. I got very angry but kept my cool and did not approach her at that time because I would have exploded. Well, I exploded, but H paid the price.
My initial reaction was not to confront this woman, but now I think I must mainly because :
a) I view this as a total lack of respect for me...
... d) mainly because this woman had given me her word that she would help us turn the bimbo away if she happened to show up at our doorstop at a cetain function we were having at our house.
So I do not understand why she felt compelling to tell H about the bimbo with me standing practically next to them...
Well, she's a friend of bimbo-OW's, so why would you have presumed that her word was reflective of any deeper understanding of how affairs operate & the damage they cause, or of the importance of ending them properly? ... I should say here that H has not had any contact with the bimbo for over a year. Once in a great while he sees her at some social functions, but they do not talk, and that is the extend of it.
Um, no, that's not the extent of it. The extent of it also includes that this contact bothers you on some level, doesn't it? To one degree or another, the fact that they see one another makes you at least a bit less certain of where his heart is. It makes you not 100% sure of what he thinks, what they might say if they meet, of whether he tells you all he knows. That uncertainty cannot help but have a corrosive effect on your relationship with your husband, at a time when you need to be more certain than ever, and when you & he need to be closer than ever.
It seems to me that you & your husband (maybe equally, or maybe one more strongly than the other) feel that your social circle is very important. Is it more important than your marriage?
I'm here to tell you that you'd be well-advised to fix it so that your social circles do not overlap, period.
Let me approach this from another angle: Do you have any evidence whatsoever that having your husband in contact (even if only visual) with his affair partner on a recurring basis might not be undermining the recovery of your marriage? If so, what evidence is that -- please share, as I'd be curious to know.
My wife & I do not have any contact -- social or otherwise -- with my former OW. To the extent that our social circles had any overlap, we did our utmost to make sure that ended. Immediately after my affair ended, my wife & I left the church that we had been part of for over 13 years, because that was where we'd become acquainted with OW -- and we wanted to ensure no-contact. When, a year after my affair ended, OW showed up at our new church, we enlisted our pastor to contact her and put her on stern notice that, given the circumstances, she was not welcome to attend -- because we wanted to ensure no-contact. And almost two years after our affair ended, there was an occasion when a mutual friend was hosting a 50th birthday party for her husband (also a mutual friend) who was then terminally ill with cancer. My wife reached out to this woman to make sure in advance that OW would not be there before we accepted the invitation to attend the party. (Instead, we'd suggested as an alternative that we come over to see the friend & her husband on our own, which would have been our fallback course-of-action had we been told that OW planned to attend the party.) All because we wanted to ensure no-contact. As best we could.
My point in bringing up that example from my own past is that whether it's work circles, social circles, church circles, whatever circles you want to name, your H's OW needs to be out of yours altogether, and vice versa. Not partially out, but all the way out.
... What do you think? Should I or should I not confront this woman? Please explain.
I am left wondering why this friend of OW was even able to pull your H off to the side to begin with. Being that he knonws she and OW are friends, he had to have known OW would most probably be the topic of conversation. His boundaries, if there, should have stated that anything she had to say to him could be said in front of you. Furthermore, as soon as OW's name was mentioned he should've stopped the conversation before she was able to take another breath. Is he struggling with creating new boundaries?
Knowing what he will do again in this situation is essential. If he is concerned about coming off as rude, calm his fears and assure him this is the time to lay a boundary. That is protection, not rudeness.
Okay, well, here it is.
In my situation, the OW is in politics.
My H sees her. His job is one that results in his company getting awarded state contracts, government contracts, etc. Her job is one that is kind of high profile, and this results in her being at these glad-handing doo-dahs, and she signs stuff, poses for pictures, and there you are. Sometimes, on rare occasions, my H is there, and OW is there. It is impossible for my H to avoid seeing her. We would have to land on the MOON to get away from this woman.
In my situation, OW's H is in a position that results in my having to go to certain meetings (now, actually, much much much less frequently, praise all things holy), where he is in attendance. I cannot prevent this. I have changed my job. The fact of the matter is, that what I do results in my crossing paths on occasion with OW's H.
That is what happens when it is governmental work. What I do doesn't really afford me the opportunity to work "privately", like other people do. My H does work that is public sector, but it just results in occasional path-crossing with OW.
We have POJA'd this issue. He reports prior to any event that she may be present. We work out what may or may not happen, and we have it down to a science. It has happened exactly 3 times since d-day (six years ago). We have weathered it, and my H does this:
1. He tells me in advance.
2. He does not talk to OW at the meetings unless it is absolutely a part of the business necessity. This has occurred 2 times; she has been completely professional in both cases, as they were publicly held meetings, on the "record".
3. He reports exactly what was said in all cases. He is open and honest in reporting.
4. He does not go anywhere before or after these meetings. He calls on the way there, and immediately when he gets into the car upon leaving.
I would say that the one thing that happened in your case is that your HUSBAND did something wrong here. He should have told this "friend" that he had NO INTEREST in hearing anything about the OW, her life, her activities, and that the conversation was not appropriate. He should have cut this woman off IMMEDIATELY.
You and your husband need to work this out - and he needs to understand that "no contact" includes the concept that he does not receive updates about the OW's goings-on, etc. Nothing, no glimpses into her life. He is behind the wall when it comes to OW.
It is hard enough going through this with things the way I have to live. You do not need people embellishing him with groovy gossip and such.
Exactly. If it is impossible to avoid, and that means absolutely impossible, your H can do what we call a "Chinese Wall" in the legal field. If a firm employee has ANY kind of conflict on a case such as having done work on the case while employed somewhere else, a firm-wide memo goes out identifying the employee with strict instructions that that employee gets NO information or exposure to that client or that case. They are locked out of any computer files and any documents or conversations. Even elevator talk is a no-no. It is grounds for termination for a breach by anyone.
Your H needs to take this just as seriously. He should make it known (this is where exposure helps alot) that ANY intel about OW is off-limits to him and that any breach may result in the person passing on the info is at risk of the friendship or acquaintance being essentially terminated, if you will, from his life.
It's that important to your marriage.
We have POJA'd this issue. He reports prior to any event that she may be present. We work out what may or may not happen, and we have it down to a science. It has happened exactly 3 times since d-day (six years ago). We have weathered it, and my H does this:
1. He tells me in advance.
2. He does not talk to OW at the meetings unless it is absolutely a part of the business necessity. This has occurred 2 times; she has been completely professional in both cases, as they were publicly held meetings, on the "record".
3. He reports exactly what was said in all cases. He is open and honest in reporting.
4. He does not go anywhere before or after these meetings. He calls on the way there, and immediately when he gets into the car upon leaving.
Just wanted to point out that this is NOT Marriage Builders advice at all. You don't "POJA" extraordinary precautions because they are not negotiable. Being completely "professional" in your contact with an OP misses the point. That is like me - a recovering alcoholic - telling you that I will be "completely professional" when I take a drink. Nor does self reporting about my drinking negate the damage done. I can be "honest" about my drinking all day long, it does nothing to negate the damage done.
The point is that when one SEES an OP again, they are triggered. There is NO career in the world that is worth than a marriage. I don't care of you are the president of the United States, careers can be changed when one is serious about recovery.
The bottom line is this:
RECOVERY IS IMPOSSIBLE WITH CONTINUED CONTACT WITH AN OP. IMPOSSIBLE. In spite of career sacrifices, friendships, and issues relating to children's schooling, I am adamant in recommending that there be no contact with a former lover for life. For many, that means a move to another state. But to do otherwise fails to recognize the nature of addiction and its cure.
<snip>
We don't know if R.J. still sees his lover, but he says he has broken off all contact. In many cases where a person is still in town, that's hard to prove. But one thing's for sure, if he ever does see his lover, it will put him in a state of perpetual withdrawal from his addiction, and make the resolution of his marriage essentially impossible. In fact, one of the reasons he is not recovering after three months of separation may be that he is not being truthful about the separation.
How to Survive an Affair chapter in HIS NEEDS, HER NEEDS
p. 177
...I have seen husbands build new and wonderful relationships with their wives but then go back to their lovers after five or six years of what appeared to be marital bliss. When I ask them why, they inevitably tell me they miss the woman terribly and still love her. At the same time they stoutly affirm they love their wives dearly and would not think of leaving them.
I believe a man like this has told the truth. He is hopelessly entangled and needs all the help possible to be kept away from his lover and stay faithful to his wife. I often recommend that a man once involved in an affair come in to see me every three to six months on an indefinite basis, just to talk about how things are going and to let me know how successfully he has stayed away from his lover.
He must resign himself to a lifetime without her. HE MUST CERTAINLY NOT WORK WITH HIS FORMER LOVER AND SHOULD PROBABLY LIVE IN SOME OTHER CITY OR STATE. Even with those restrictions the desire for her company persists...
Let me put this another way. My H and I can "poja" smoking Marlboro cigarettes and shooting up heroin, but it does not negate the damaging health effects. It is the same with continued contact with an OP. That contact keeps a WS triggered. Calling it cute names like "professional" or "business" does not prevent the affairees from being triggered. I ASSURE you if I go drink a bottle scotch whiskey I will be just as drunk if I call it "professional drinks."
The POJA is NOT intended to be used to HARM marriages by avoiding extraordinary precautions. You don't use one concept to break another.
Here is one of MANY radio clips with Dr Harley discussing the importance of NO CONTACT FOR LIFE in the recovery of a marriage. He flat out says "recovery is impossible" with continued contact:
radio clip here
It's really pretty simple, what are the relationships people want to maintain, and in what priority.
Granted, public service, will present challenges that test our resolve, but no one can deny the stress added to your life, when APs are inncluded in social circles
If we start out with the fact that weare weak humans beings, and in the natural have weak boudaries, we are more likely to do what we can, to affair proof our marrige, if we really care for it, above all other relationships with other peoples
How much service do we really owe the rest of the world?
It is impossible for my H to avoid seeing her.
Then he or she needs a different job.
It's a matter of prioities...
The career or the marriage.
There is no acceptable compromise.
LostinLies,
I look at your H as being responsible for your discomfort in this situation.
No woman should be able to "pull him aside" for a private conversation. He should have grabbed your hand, pulled you into the conversation and immediately let her know he keeps no secrets from you.
And the moment he knew the conversation was related to the OW, he should have let her know he was not interested in hearing ANYTHING about her.
NC means no contact. No exceptions.
When NC is not 100% it is because the parties involved do not wish to go through any inconvience.
Well to bad, tuff, so sorry, out of luck, you danced now you must pay the band.
Was the OP worth the price, yes or no, the bill still has to be paid.
Just for the record, my post was about situations where a FWH runs into someone who wants to pass on info about the OP, not contact with the OP. That should never happen. A person can choose whether to take away ANY chances for contact, even if it means starting from scratch.
Folks, please help this poster with Marriage Builders concepts rather than personal philosophies. If you can help in that regard, feel free to post. If not, we respectfully ask that you refrain from disrupting this thread.
Thank you all for your cooperation and contributions. Any questions or comments, please shoot me an email.
Fireproof
Okay, well, here it is.
In my situation, the OW is in politics.
My H sees her. His job is one that results in his company getting awarded state contracts, government contracts, etc. Her job is one that is kind of high profile, and this results in her being at these glad-handing doo-dahs, and she signs stuff, poses for pictures, and there you are. Sometimes, on rare occasions, my H is there, and OW is there. It is impossible for my H to avoid seeing her. We would have to land on the MOON to get away from this woman.
In my situation, OW's H is in a position that results in my having to go to certain meetings (now, actually, much much much less frequently, praise all things holy), where he is in attendance. I cannot prevent this. I have changed my job. The fact of the matter is, that what I do results in my crossing paths on occasion with OW's H.
That is what happens when it is governmental work. What I do doesn't really afford me the opportunity to work "privately", like other people do. My H does work that is public sector, but it just results in occasional path-crossing with OW.
We have POJA'd this issue. He reports prior to any event that she may be present. We work out what may or may not happen, and we have it down to a science. It has happened exactly 3 times since d-day (six years ago). We have weathered it, and my H does this:
1. He tells me in advance.
2. He does not talk to OW at the meetings unless it is absolutely a part of the business necessity. This has occurred 2 times; she has been completely professional in both cases, as they were publicly held meetings, on the "record".
3. He reports exactly what was said in all cases. He is open and honest in reporting.
4. He does not go anywhere before or after these meetings. He calls on the way there, and immediately when he gets into the car upon leaving.
I would say that the one thing that happened in your case is that your HUSBAND did something wrong here. He should have told this "friend" that he had NO INTEREST in hearing anything about the OW, her life, her activities, and that the conversation was not appropriate. He should have cut this woman off IMMEDIATELY.
You and your husband need to work this out - and he needs to understand that "no contact" includes the concept that he does not receive updates about the OW's goings-on, etc. Nothing, no glimpses into her life. He is behind the wall when it comes to OW.
It is hard enough going through this with things the way I have to live. You do not need people embellishing him with groovy gossip and such.
I am rather dismayed to read this post.
There is no such thing as its being impossible for your H to avoid seeing that woman, or for you to avoid seeing her H. If you have to land on the moon you should do so.
I can only say that, after a number of false recoveries that caused me to all but break down emotionally, I reached the point where, if my husband hadn't changed jobs I would have left him. Without any family to lean on, I would have taken my two kids and moved into a run-down hotel while my house was sold and I would never have gone back to him. When you know, when you really KNOW the dangers of contact, you will change your life to avoid that - for yourself, because you cannot take any more.
The basic POJA in a marriage is surely the marriage vows, and yet those vows did not stop your H and mine disregarding them and meeting OP in secret. My H had a job that only required rare contact with OW, in Belgium where she lives, and yet on the initial few occasions that they saw each other, they liked what they saw and followed up those professional meetings with extra-professional meetings in a pub. Of course, neither told their spouse about the pub meetings. They POJAd their agreements to each other and abandoned the POJA they had taken out with us. And, they forgot to copy us in on the email that said that the marital POJA was null and void.
I think that if people have non-Harley approaches to NC or anything else - approaches that Dr Harley has specifically ruled out, in no uncertain terms - then those people should keep their arrangements off this forum and away from the gaze of posters in crisis. It is highly irresponsible for there to be any suggestion that any form of contact can be managed and POJAd, and it is not we advisors that have to deal with the tragedy of another false recovery for some anonymous person here.
I too thought NC meant NC - as in run, dont walk away from the marriage mugger. As part of Plan B, if I were to end up at the same function as my wh, I would leave. This is in case I accidentally meet any of his needs(PA, IC - anything)
I would expect an even more serious stance on NC from him towards OW should he return - as per MB advice.
In regards to the original poster, MB advice says NC for life - neither of you should be anywhere near the following people EVER - 1) the OW 2)anyone linked to the OWs circle or 3) anyone who may have news of the OW.
He should definitely not be at a party with her!!!
If you see her or any of her circle ANYWHERE you should both leave. If someone linked to her starts talking to either of you unawares you say (Please, dont I cannot hear anything relating to that person - and then LEAVE THE BUILDING)
People try to tell me about my WH all the time. They mean well. They think I am curious. It is easy for me to say NO. It should be much easier when the news is clearly so malicious.
This person committed an assault upon you. Would you or your h hang out at the same function with someone who had beaten or raped you?
With someone who remained their friend?
Of course not.
This is what melody lane means by 'serious'
I agree with the MB concept of NC for life. Please do not mistake my situation as being that I disagree with the idea of NC for life. It is not the case whatsoever.
My post was not meant to encourage the poster to go along with seeing the OW. I can see how that was interpreted. Not at all what I intended, in the least! What my point was that I understood how hard it was to have people bringing her up all the time, seeing her, having to deal with hearing her name, etc. Because the OW in my case is in politics, I have to see her on TV, in the press, etc. Bugs me to no end. I cannot get away from her.
That was my point. I can see how what I said was lost in how I said it. I in no way meant for the poster to figure out a way to go along with contact!!!! I cannot stand our situation!!!!! It is difficult, and I would rather be on the moon. Or have OW on the moon.
In this poster's situation, her husband should not allow other people to tell him about the OW's personal life, or other stuff about OW. He should put a stop to it when someone brings her name up to him.
The further insult here is that he allowed this "sidebar" with his wife right there. This was rude, and disrespectful. To speak to someone secretively, with your spouse standing there waiting, is an insult.
I do agree with everyone here who said that the bimbo's friend should not be able to pull him aside, but honestly, I never thought she would update him on the bimbo. Because of her position in that social circle, I thought she would discuss business, and since I am not a member, it would not have bothered me at all. But since it was BUT business, well, yes, it did bother me.
To all of you who claimed that my social circles mean more than my marriage, I tell you that this is not true. I have taken a stand, I plan to take more, and I have set boundaries. I have done NOTHING wrong and I refuse to leave if the OW or someone she knows shows up where I am. The ones to leave are them and OW has left many times.
Where I live is a small town and it is impossible not to see certain people. I refuse to become a hermit simply because I may or may not see the OW or someone she knows.
Not to mention that there are people who have had affairs in the work place and still work there and see the OW on a regular basis. My H has seen her 3 times in over a year and they have not said a word, not to mention she leaves when we are there.
I understand where you are coming from and I appreciate the time everyone has taken to give me their opinion on my situation.
To all of you who claimed that my social circles mean more than my marriage, I tell you that this is not true. I have taken a stand, I plan to take more, and I have set boundaries. I have done NOTHING wrong and I refuse to leave if the OW or someone she knows shows up where I am. The ones to leave are them and OW has left many times.
What you describe are not boundaries at all but a demonstration of tempting fate. All you are saying her is "I refuse to affair proof my marriage!" Well, that is just stupid, I am sorry.
Are you also willing to pay the consequences? Because there are consequences to such a cavalier approach. And let me just tell what they are: everytime your H sees the OW he will be triggered. [whether you are there or whether there are 100 people there, he will still be triggered]He goes back to Day 1 of recovery.
He will remain in a perpetual state of fog and will never fully withdraw. Withdrawal is the only way he can fully recover and draw TO you.
And because he will remain in the fog, it is very likely he will resume that affair or start another one.
We have seen this countless times over the years. At best you will be wondering for years why you just never seem to recover. At worst, you are looking at a resumed affair, which is very likely to happen.
It is like the alcoholic changing the name of his drinks to "business drinks" and then wondering why he never sobers up. That is all you are doing here.
Here is a radio clip that demonsrates exactly where you are headed. This, caller, a WH named Bob, and his OW lived a mile apart and the affair has been on and off for 3 1/2 years. The BW is now divorcing him and their little boy is severely depressed. This is what happens when one ignores Dr Harley's recommendations for NO CONTACT FOR LIFE. We have seen this happen over and over again on the SAA board over the years:
Part 1 Part 2 Part 3 Another clip where the affairees still see each other at work. Dr Harley says "recovery is impossible unless all contact ends"
here
Not to mention that there are people who have had affairs in the work place and still work there and see the OW on a regular basis.
And they don't EVER recover. Those situations lead to resumed affairs and divorces. Recovery is impossible unless all contact ends. Couples that are serious about recovery quit jobs, move across the state, they do whatever is necessary to avoid the OP and recover their marriages. What you are doing will not lead to recovery.
Not to mention that there are people who have had affairs in the work place and still work there and see the OW on a regular basis.
This is a very dangerous attempt to normalize contact. Nothing good can possibly come from this.
Not to mention that there are people who have had affairs in the work place and still work there and see the OW on a regular basis.
And they don't EVER recover. Those situations lead to resumed affairs and divorces. Recovery is impossible unless all contact ends. Couples that are serious about recovery quit jobs, move across the state, they do whatever is necessary to avoid the OP and recover their marriages. What you are doing will not lead to recovery.
Yes, and do you not know that most marriges, plod along, not being what they can be, or what they should be, becuase of this need to "grow up"? The percentages of happy marriages, in this world is low, what is being told you, is how to make yours happy, and therfore prevent and protect it from divorce.
Nobody says you should live like a hermit, but a hermit is not married either. Niether does the hermit have to deal with setting strong boundaries around who they asscoiate with. That is what we are talking about. The boudaries
Triggers from past relationships, that never should have happened in the first place, can only cause more confusion and pain. When the boundary of sexual intercourse is crossed, and the OP is considered a place of rest at some point in their lives, a place of freedom, it is paramount that they never see each other agian.
Again it is all about what you value in relationships, and what you will do to protect them.
Again thanks for the time you have taken to respond to my post. I take all the advice to heart because I know it is coming from people who have been there and have more experience ( sad word in this case) in this subject than I do.
Please allow me to clarify that H never had a PA with this woman. It was only an EA for two months. I have seen the timeline of the EA by reading his emails and I saw how it got started and how far it had gone. Some will say that I can never be sure; true. But before I confronted, I had a PI follow them for some time and he never saw anything going on; not even the slightest display of affection between them like holding hands for example.
What the PI saw is H and OW meet for coffee or lunch sometimes. Nothing more and nothing less. Still, the EA was inexcusable, I am not trying to justify anything. So I put a stop to it.That's the extend of their involvement.
Lostinlies, unfortunately, an affair is an affair. There is no difference between an emotional affair and a physical affair as far as the threat to your marriage. One is as dangerous as the next. An emotional affair is just as addictive, if not more, as a sexual affair.
The advice we are giving you is not based on our own personal opinions, but on the professional advice of Dr Bill Harley, clinical psychologist, who has specialized in saving marriages from infidelity for 40 years. As he would explain to you [and we posted his quotes above] recovery is impossible as long as the affairees see each other.
It is your marriage to do as you see fit, of course, but you should understand the consequences.
I wish you the best.
It was me that made the reference to a PA, sorry about that.
But it is in the mind where affair do the most damage, and the fantasy lives after all.
The contact still keeps the fantasy alive.
My husband's emotional affair:
He denied it for 17 or 18 years!!!!
The OW was in our lives for a long time, and I had the sense that he had feelings for her, but how do you prove this? There were no letters, etc. Nothing.
Finally, Marriage Builders brought about the change in my husband. He admitted the EA. ADMITTED IT AFTER THIS LONG.
It was a poison - he admitted this, too. The conversations we have had regarding this OW, the fantasy he entertained, the entire deal.......making me think I was such a b*&^% at the time,
gee....
it took too long, and the erosion on the relationship, it was not worth it.
Do not discount the damage an emotional affair can do.
My husband just had an affair (OW #2, an EA and one-night-stand!) at the SAME TIME as OW #1. It was a woman he dated 13 years ago! Apparently there was some feelings there all this time, their drunken ONS was on their first encounter in 13 years!!! Thanks a lot Facebook!!! Craaazy. EA's=DANGER.