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NC means no contact. No exceptions.
When NC is not 100% it is because the parties involved do not wish to go through any inconvience.
Well to bad, tuff, so sorry, out of luck, you danced now you must pay the band.
Was the OP worth the price, yes or no, the bill still has to be paid.
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Just for the record, my post was about situations where a FWH runs into someone who wants to pass on info about the OP, not contact with the OP. That should never happen. A person can choose whether to take away ANY chances for contact, even if it means starting from scratch.
Widowed 11/10/12 after 35 years of marriage
*********************
“In a sense now, I am homeless. For the home, the place of refuge, solitude, love-where my husband lived-no longer exists.” Joyce Carolyn Oates, A Widow's Story
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Folks, please help this poster with Marriage Builders concepts rather than personal philosophies. If you can help in that regard, feel free to post. If not, we respectfully ask that you refrain from disrupting this thread.
Thank you all for your cooperation and contributions. Any questions or comments, please shoot me an email.
Fireproof
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Okay, well, here it is.
In my situation, the OW is in politics.
My H sees her. His job is one that results in his company getting awarded state contracts, government contracts, etc. Her job is one that is kind of high profile, and this results in her being at these glad-handing doo-dahs, and she signs stuff, poses for pictures, and there you are. Sometimes, on rare occasions, my H is there, and OW is there. It is impossible for my H to avoid seeing her. We would have to land on the MOON to get away from this woman.
In my situation, OW's H is in a position that results in my having to go to certain meetings (now, actually, much much much less frequently, praise all things holy), where he is in attendance. I cannot prevent this. I have changed my job. The fact of the matter is, that what I do results in my crossing paths on occasion with OW's H.
That is what happens when it is governmental work. What I do doesn't really afford me the opportunity to work "privately", like other people do. My H does work that is public sector, but it just results in occasional path-crossing with OW.
We have POJA'd this issue. He reports prior to any event that she may be present. We work out what may or may not happen, and we have it down to a science. It has happened exactly 3 times since d-day (six years ago). We have weathered it, and my H does this:
1. He tells me in advance.
2. He does not talk to OW at the meetings unless it is absolutely a part of the business necessity. This has occurred 2 times; she has been completely professional in both cases, as they were publicly held meetings, on the "record".
3. He reports exactly what was said in all cases. He is open and honest in reporting.
4. He does not go anywhere before or after these meetings. He calls on the way there, and immediately when he gets into the car upon leaving.
I would say that the one thing that happened in your case is that your HUSBAND did something wrong here. He should have told this "friend" that he had NO INTEREST in hearing anything about the OW, her life, her activities, and that the conversation was not appropriate. He should have cut this woman off IMMEDIATELY.
You and your husband need to work this out - and he needs to understand that "no contact" includes the concept that he does not receive updates about the OW's goings-on, etc. Nothing, no glimpses into her life. He is behind the wall when it comes to OW.
It is hard enough going through this with things the way I have to live. You do not need people embellishing him with groovy gossip and such. I am rather dismayed to read this post. There is no such thing as its being impossible for your H to avoid seeing that woman, or for you to avoid seeing her H. If you have to land on the moon you should do so. I can only say that, after a number of false recoveries that caused me to all but break down emotionally, I reached the point where, if my husband hadn't changed jobs I would have left him. Without any family to lean on, I would have taken my two kids and moved into a run-down hotel while my house was sold and I would never have gone back to him. When you know, when you really KNOW the dangers of contact, you will change your life to avoid that - for yourself, because you cannot take any more. The basic POJA in a marriage is surely the marriage vows, and yet those vows did not stop your H and mine disregarding them and meeting OP in secret. My H had a job that only required rare contact with OW, in Belgium where she lives, and yet on the initial few occasions that they saw each other, they liked what they saw and followed up those professional meetings with extra-professional meetings in a pub. Of course, neither told their spouse about the pub meetings. They POJAd their agreements to each other and abandoned the POJA they had taken out with us. And, they forgot to copy us in on the email that said that the marital POJA was null and void. I think that if people have non-Harley approaches to NC or anything else - approaches that Dr Harley has specifically ruled out, in no uncertain terms - then those people should keep their arrangements off this forum and away from the gaze of posters in crisis. It is highly irresponsible for there to be any suggestion that any form of contact can be managed and POJAd, and it is not we advisors that have to deal with the tragedy of another false recovery for some anonymous person here.
BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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I too thought NC meant NC - as in run, dont walk away from the marriage mugger. As part of Plan B, if I were to end up at the same function as my wh, I would leave. This is in case I accidentally meet any of his needs(PA, IC - anything)
I would expect an even more serious stance on NC from him towards OW should he return - as per MB advice.
In regards to the original poster, MB advice says NC for life - neither of you should be anywhere near the following people EVER - 1) the OW 2)anyone linked to the OWs circle or 3) anyone who may have news of the OW.
He should definitely not be at a party with her!!!
If you see her or any of her circle ANYWHERE you should both leave. If someone linked to her starts talking to either of you unawares you say (Please, dont I cannot hear anything relating to that person - and then LEAVE THE BUILDING)
People try to tell me about my WH all the time. They mean well. They think I am curious. It is easy for me to say NO. It should be much easier when the news is clearly so malicious.
This person committed an assault upon you. Would you or your h hang out at the same function with someone who had beaten or raped you?
With someone who remained their friend?
Of course not.
This is what melody lane means by 'serious'
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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I agree with the MB concept of NC for life. Please do not mistake my situation as being that I disagree with the idea of NC for life. It is not the case whatsoever.
My post was not meant to encourage the poster to go along with seeing the OW. I can see how that was interpreted. Not at all what I intended, in the least! What my point was that I understood how hard it was to have people bringing her up all the time, seeing her, having to deal with hearing her name, etc. Because the OW in my case is in politics, I have to see her on TV, in the press, etc. Bugs me to no end. I cannot get away from her.
That was my point. I can see how what I said was lost in how I said it. I in no way meant for the poster to figure out a way to go along with contact!!!! I cannot stand our situation!!!!! It is difficult, and I would rather be on the moon. Or have OW on the moon.
In this poster's situation, her husband should not allow other people to tell him about the OW's personal life, or other stuff about OW. He should put a stop to it when someone brings her name up to him.
The further insult here is that he allowed this "sidebar" with his wife right there. This was rude, and disrespectful. To speak to someone secretively, with your spouse standing there waiting, is an insult.
Lucky to be where I am, in a safe place to get marriage-related support.
Recovered.
Happy.
Most recent D-day Fall 2005
Our new marriage began that day. Not easily, but it did happen.
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I do agree with everyone here who said that the bimbo's friend should not be able to pull him aside, but honestly, I never thought she would update him on the bimbo. Because of her position in that social circle, I thought she would discuss business, and since I am not a member, it would not have bothered me at all. But since it was BUT business, well, yes, it did bother me.
To all of you who claimed that my social circles mean more than my marriage, I tell you that this is not true. I have taken a stand, I plan to take more, and I have set boundaries. I have done NOTHING wrong and I refuse to leave if the OW or someone she knows shows up where I am. The ones to leave are them and OW has left many times.
Where I live is a small town and it is impossible not to see certain people. I refuse to become a hermit simply because I may or may not see the OW or someone she knows.
Not to mention that there are people who have had affairs in the work place and still work there and see the OW on a regular basis. My H has seen her 3 times in over a year and they have not said a word, not to mention she leaves when we are there.
I understand where you are coming from and I appreciate the time everyone has taken to give me their opinion on my situation.
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To all of you who claimed that my social circles mean more than my marriage, I tell you that this is not true. I have taken a stand, I plan to take more, and I have set boundaries. I have done NOTHING wrong and I refuse to leave if the OW or someone she knows shows up where I am. The ones to leave are them and OW has left many times. What you describe are not boundaries at all but a demonstration of tempting fate. All you are saying her is "I refuse to affair proof my marriage!" Well, that is just stupid, I am sorry. Are you also willing to pay the consequences? Because there are consequences to such a cavalier approach. And let me just tell what they are: everytime your H sees the OW he will be triggered. [whether you are there or whether there are 100 people there, he will still be triggered]He goes back to Day 1 of recovery. He will remain in a perpetual state of fog and will never fully withdraw. Withdrawal is the only way he can fully recover and draw TO you. And because he will remain in the fog, it is very likely he will resume that affair or start another one. We have seen this countless times over the years. At best you will be wondering for years why you just never seem to recover. At worst, you are looking at a resumed affair, which is very likely to happen. It is like the alcoholic changing the name of his drinks to "business drinks" and then wondering why he never sobers up. That is all you are doing here. Here is a radio clip that demonsrates exactly where you are headed. This, caller, a WH named Bob, and his OW lived a mile apart and the affair has been on and off for 3 1/2 years. The BW is now divorcing him and their little boy is severely depressed. This is what happens when one ignores Dr Harley's recommendations for NO CONTACT FOR LIFE. We have seen this happen over and over again on the SAA board over the years: Part 1 Part 2 Part 3 Another clip where the affairees still see each other at work. Dr Harley says "recovery is impossible unless all contact ends" here
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Not to mention that there are people who have had affairs in the work place and still work there and see the OW on a regular basis. And they don't EVER recover. Those situations lead to resumed affairs and divorces. Recovery is impossible unless all contact ends. Couples that are serious about recovery quit jobs, move across the state, they do whatever is necessary to avoid the OP and recover their marriages. What you are doing will not lead to recovery.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Not to mention that there are people who have had affairs in the work place and still work there and see the OW on a regular basis. This is a very dangerous attempt to normalize contact. Nothing good can possibly come from this. 
D-Day 2-10-2009
Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever!
Thank you Marriage Builders!
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Not to mention that there are people who have had affairs in the work place and still work there and see the OW on a regular basis. And they don't EVER recover. Those situations lead to resumed affairs and divorces. Recovery is impossible unless all contact ends. Couples that are serious about recovery quit jobs, move across the state, they do whatever is necessary to avoid the OP and recover their marriages. What you are doing will not lead to recovery. Yes, and do you not know that most marriges, plod along, not being what they can be, or what they should be, becuase of this need to "grow up"? The percentages of happy marriages, in this world is low, what is being told you, is how to make yours happy, and therfore prevent and protect it from divorce. Nobody says you should live like a hermit, but a hermit is not married either. Niether does the hermit have to deal with setting strong boundaries around who they asscoiate with. That is what we are talking about. The boudaries Triggers from past relationships, that never should have happened in the first place, can only cause more confusion and pain. When the boundary of sexual intercourse is crossed, and the OP is considered a place of rest at some point in their lives, a place of freedom, it is paramount that they never see each other agian. Again it is all about what you value in relationships, and what you will do to protect them.
Me 56 Former BS Widowed 5-17-09 --married 25 years. 4 children DS-35 previous marriage--18-22 DGrandSons 6 and 4 Me former BS DD-29 with DGDs 5 and 1yr DSs 26 and 23 Teilhard de Chardin..“We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience.” ...Sounds about right to me.
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Again thanks for the time you have taken to respond to my post. I take all the advice to heart because I know it is coming from people who have been there and have more experience ( sad word in this case) in this subject than I do.
Please allow me to clarify that H never had a PA with this woman. It was only an EA for two months. I have seen the timeline of the EA by reading his emails and I saw how it got started and how far it had gone. Some will say that I can never be sure; true. But before I confronted, I had a PI follow them for some time and he never saw anything going on; not even the slightest display of affection between them like holding hands for example.
What the PI saw is H and OW meet for coffee or lunch sometimes. Nothing more and nothing less. Still, the EA was inexcusable, I am not trying to justify anything. So I put a stop to it.That's the extend of their involvement.
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Lostinlies, unfortunately, an affair is an affair. There is no difference between an emotional affair and a physical affair as far as the threat to your marriage. One is as dangerous as the next. An emotional affair is just as addictive, if not more, as a sexual affair.
The advice we are giving you is not based on our own personal opinions, but on the professional advice of Dr Bill Harley, clinical psychologist, who has specialized in saving marriages from infidelity for 40 years. As he would explain to you [and we posted his quotes above] recovery is impossible as long as the affairees see each other.
It is your marriage to do as you see fit, of course, but you should understand the consequences.
I wish you the best.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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It was me that made the reference to a PA, sorry about that.
But it is in the mind where affair do the most damage, and the fantasy lives after all.
The contact still keeps the fantasy alive.
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My husband's emotional affair:
He denied it for 17 or 18 years!!!!
The OW was in our lives for a long time, and I had the sense that he had feelings for her, but how do you prove this? There were no letters, etc. Nothing.
Finally, Marriage Builders brought about the change in my husband. He admitted the EA. ADMITTED IT AFTER THIS LONG.
It was a poison - he admitted this, too. The conversations we have had regarding this OW, the fantasy he entertained, the entire deal.......making me think I was such a b*&^% at the time,
gee....
it took too long, and the erosion on the relationship, it was not worth it.
Do not discount the damage an emotional affair can do.
Lucky to be where I am, in a safe place to get marriage-related support.
Recovered.
Happy.
Most recent D-day Fall 2005
Our new marriage began that day. Not easily, but it did happen.
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My husband just had an affair (OW #2, an EA and one-night-stand!) at the SAME TIME as OW #1. It was a woman he dated 13 years ago! Apparently there was some feelings there all this time, their drunken ONS was on their first encounter in 13 years!!! Thanks a lot Facebook!!! Craaazy. EA's=DANGER.
Me: 34yrs
OM #1 ONS July 2010
OM #2 internet/text EA (9/10-2/11)
He: WH 38 yrs
OW#1 Former friend, 7 month EA & PA 1/11-7/11
OW#2 Ex-GF, 1 month phone/ FB EA & ONS 7/11
Recovering MB Online!
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BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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