I haven't posted here for sometime because there was nothing to report. But last week, something happened that I need some advice. Let me explain:

H and I were at a social function when one of the ladies there, took my H aside and with me a few feet away she started whispering and updating H about OW's recent life situation.I could overhear a few things so I knew exactly what she was saying. I got very angry but kept my cool and did not approach her at that time because I would have exploded. Well, I exploded, but H paid the price.
My initial reaction was not to confront this woman, but now I think I must mainly because :

a) I view this as a total lack of respect for me

b) this woman knows about what her best friend ( the bimbo in case) has done.

c) this woman knows that we issued a restraining order against the bimbo last year and

d) mainly because this woman had given me her word that she would help us turn the bimbo away if she happened to show up at our doorstop at a cetain function we were having at our house.
So I do not understand why she felt compelling to tell H about the bimbo with me standing practically next to them.

If I do not confront her, she may do this same thing again and things will escalate. Not to mention that I will not allow anyone to disrespect me ever again.

I will be firm , not angry, but convey the message that this behavior will not be tolerated ever again.

I should say here that H has not had any contact with the bimbo for over a year. Once in a great while he sees her at some social functions ,but they do not talk, and that is the extend of it.


What do you think? Should I or should I not confront this woman? Please explain.
Thanks for the input

Well I can't understand it either, esspecially because she was going to protect your marraige last year is bimbo ever showed up at your house..

It seems that she doesn't know her boundaries, or respect yours either, or your marraige.

I feel you should confront her, and maybe with your H, decide to keep her out of your life, and your circle of friends.

Some people are just dense and also very toxic to let in on your personal life, and just interested in the drama of other people, not realizing the damage they can inflict.

Or maybe realizing the damage they are inflicting and they just don't give a darn?

Wow! As long as they still see each other, your problem is not this woman but that your marriage has never even BEGUN recovery. As long as he still has contact with the OW recovery is impossible.

This friend who talked about your husbands girlfriend is the least of your problems. She knows you aren't serious so neither is she.

If you decide to ever get serious about recovering your marriage, then STEP ONE is no contact with the OW. You haven't even taken step one.

You and your husband socialize with the OW's best friend? That is amazing. It is obvious that your social life takes great precedence over your marriage.

Why in the world would you run in the same social circles?

We do not socialize with the OW's best friend. We were at a social function and we were surprised to see her there. I was NOT going to leave because the OW's friend just showed up. No way!!!!!

The same is true with H seeing the bimbo at social functions. We never know when she will be there nor does she know when we'll be there. Many times she has left simply because I was there. She hates my guts.
The question was whether I should confront her or not. There is more to the story than what I posted. This was just an outline.

I wouldn't confront her. Why expect her to be more serious than you? Just the fact that you and your husband attend the same social functions and even STAY when you see the OW tells me how serious you really are: not at all.

If you dont take no contact seriously you can't expect others to. And obviously your husband does socialize with the OWs friends, you just witnessed it.

Have you ever considered recovering your marriage?

I guess I dont understand why its wrong for the OWs friend to talk about the OW to your husband but its OK for you and your H to go to the same events with the OW? That makes no sense to me.

So maybe you can explain it better, and explain why the social functions are so important.

Am I right that this friend, is the best friend of the OW? The friend who talked to your husband? The same one who was going to keep bimbo away from your home?

Sorry, but that stinks to high heaven of duel purposes of staying in contact with your family, and again, of boundaries being crossed, that are none of her concern. She sounds dense enough to believe she is helping, while playing with fire, and other peoples lives.

You need to expose this affair and the danger it presents to your social group, and let them know that it is not acceptable to you, that bimbo has any contact at all with your Husband.

You deserve that respect

These social functions are more important than the recovery of her marriage. They must be very very important.

Not to sound like a smart azz, but it would have to be something that had to do with high politics, or head of state stuff, to make it more important than the safty of my marriage.

No contact with past affair partners, none, nada, zilch...The relationship was wrong, toxic, a fantasy, an escape, and the very thought of what went on between the two of them, should turn thier stomach.

Oh we know how it is, everybody says,"You should just get over it", "life goes on", and "Grow up". But that leaves open the possibility of the affair starting up again, if the right situation presents itself, and they are looking for an escape again.

If we are truly going to "grow up", we must realize that this is true, and we are weak also as human beings. anybody who knows that, will understand that they should never be around each other, and those that pretend that they are stronger than that,are simply not willing to admit that they are not.

so what relationship is more important? your friends or your best friend, your Husband?

NOPE, not even then.


Lost, listen to ML. STEP ONE No Contact with OW FOR LIFE.

Have you ever read the story of GloveOil? He is a FWH. He posts, and he talks about how he had tried to end the A when it was an EA, but seeing the OW over time, it started again.

If you don't want to take our word for it, call DrH at the radio show. There is advice all over these boards from DrH himself that tells people they can no longer go to family functions when the OP was a family member. No weddings, no funerals, NOTHING. What could these social events be that would be more important than those events?

You're right -- it was.

It's because she has a total lack of respect for you, remember? Well, she's a friend of bimbo-OW's, so why would you have presumed that her word was reflective of any deeper understanding of how affairs operate & the damage they cause, or of the importance of ending them properly?

So there's been no contact, except when there's been contact.

Um, no, that's not the extent of it. The extent of it also includes that this contact bothers you on some level, doesn't it? To one degree or another, the fact that they see one another makes you at least a bit less certain of where his heart is. It makes you not 100% sure of what he thinks, what they might say if they meet, of whether he tells you all he knows. That uncertainty cannot help but have a corrosive effect on your relationship with your husband, at a time when you need to be more certain than ever, and when you & he need to be closer than ever.

It seems to me that you & your husband (maybe equally, or maybe one more strongly than the other) feel that your social circle is very important. Is it more important than your marriage?

I'm here to tell you that you'd be well-advised to fix it so that your social circles do not overlap, period.

Let me approach this from another angle: Do you have any evidence whatsoever that having your husband in contact (even if only visual) with his affair partner on a recurring basis might not be undermining the recovery of your marriage? If so, what evidence is that -- please share, as I'd be curious to know.

My wife & I do not have any contact -- social or otherwise -- with my former OW. To the extent that our social circles had any overlap, we did our utmost to make sure that ended. Immediately after my affair ended, my wife & I left the church that we had been part of for over 13 years, because that was where we'd become acquainted with OW -- and we wanted to ensure no-contact. When, a year after my affair ended, OW showed up at our new church, we enlisted our pastor to contact her and put her on stern notice that, given the circumstances, she was not welcome to attend -- because we wanted to ensure no-contact. And almost two years after our affair ended, there was an occasion when a mutual friend was hosting a 50th birthday party for her husband (also a mutual friend) who was then terminally ill with cancer. My wife reached out to this woman to make sure in advance that OW would not be there before we accepted the invitation to attend the party. (Instead, we'd suggested as an alternative that we come over to see the friend & her husband on our own, which would have been our fallback course-of-action had we been told that OW planned to attend the party.) All because we wanted to ensure no-contact. As best we could.

My point in bringing up that example from my own past is that whether it's work circles, social circles, church circles, whatever circles you want to name, your H's OW needs to be out of yours altogether, and vice versa. Not partially out, but all the way out.
Confronting the OW's friend is neither here nor there; it would be missing the point. The main point is that you guys (you & your H) need to give up your notion that "partial no contact" is a sensible option. It's not. You need to exercise control over what you can control. You can't control OW or her friend. But you can control when & where you show up, and you can do a better job scouting things out to make sure that it's not where OW will be. I'd suggest that you guys both need to step it up on this aspect if you want to put your marriage in better position to heal right.

I am left wondering why this friend of OW was even able to pull your H off to the side to begin with. Being that he knonws she and OW are friends, he had to have known OW would most probably be the topic of conversation. His boundaries, if there, should have stated that anything she had to say to him could be said in front of you. Furthermore, as soon as OW's name was mentioned he should've stopped the conversation before she was able to take another breath. Is he struggling with creating new boundaries?

Knowing what he will do again in this situation is essential. If he is concerned about coming off as rude, calm his fears and assure him this is the time to lay a boundary. That is protection, not rudeness.

Okay, well, here it is.

In my situation, the OW is in politics.

My H sees her. His job is one that results in his company getting awarded state contracts, government contracts, etc. Her job is one that is kind of high profile, and this results in her being at these glad-handing doo-dahs, and she signs stuff, poses for pictures, and there you are. Sometimes, on rare occasions, my H is there, and OW is there. It is impossible for my H to avoid seeing her. We would have to land on the MOON to get away from this woman.

In my situation, OW's H is in a position that results in my having to go to certain meetings (now, actually, much much much less frequently, praise all things holy), where he is in attendance. I cannot prevent this. I have changed my job. The fact of the matter is, that what I do results in my crossing paths on occasion with OW's H.

That is what happens when it is governmental work. What I do doesn't really afford me the opportunity to work "privately", like other people do. My H does work that is public sector, but it just results in occasional path-crossing with OW.

We have POJA'd this issue. He reports prior to any event that she may be present. We work out what may or may not happen, and we have it down to a science. It has happened exactly 3 times since d-day (six years ago). We have weathered it, and my H does this:

1. He tells me in advance.
2. He does not talk to OW at the meetings unless it is absolutely a part of the business necessity. This has occurred 2 times; she has been completely professional in both cases, as they were publicly held meetings, on the "record".
3. He reports exactly what was said in all cases. He is open and honest in reporting.
4. He does not go anywhere before or after these meetings. He calls on the way there, and immediately when he gets into the car upon leaving.


I would say that the one thing that happened in your case is that your HUSBAND did something wrong here. He should have told this "friend" that he had NO INTEREST in hearing anything about the OW, her life, her activities, and that the conversation was not appropriate. He should have cut this woman off IMMEDIATELY.

You and your husband need to work this out - and he needs to understand that "no contact" includes the concept that he does not receive updates about the OW's goings-on, etc. Nothing, no glimpses into her life. He is behind the wall when it comes to OW.

It is hard enough going through this with things the way I have to live. You do not need people embellishing him with groovy gossip and such.

Exactly. If it is impossible to avoid, and that means absolutely impossible, your H can do what we call a "Chinese Wall" in the legal field. If a firm employee has ANY kind of conflict on a case such as having done work on the case while employed somewhere else, a firm-wide memo goes out identifying the employee with strict instructions that that employee gets NO information or exposure to that client or that case. They are locked out of any computer files and any documents or conversations. Even elevator talk is a no-no. It is grounds for termination for a breach by anyone.

Your H needs to take this just as seriously. He should make it known (this is where exposure helps alot) that ANY intel about OW is off-limits to him and that any breach may result in the person passing on the info is at risk of the friendship or acquaintance being essentially terminated, if you will, from his life.

It's that important to your marriage.

Just wanted to point out that this is NOT Marriage Builders advice at all. You don't "POJA" extraordinary precautions because they are not negotiable. Being completely "professional" in your contact with an OP misses the point. That is like me - a recovering alcoholic - telling you that I will be "completely professional" when I take a drink. Nor does self reporting about my drinking negate the damage done. I can be "honest" about my drinking all day long, it does nothing to negate the damage done.

The point is that when one SEES an OP again, they are triggered. There is NO career in the world that is worth than a marriage. I don't care of you are the president of the United States, careers can be changed when one is serious about recovery.

The bottom line is this: RECOVERY IS IMPOSSIBLE WITH CONTINUED CONTACT WITH AN OP. IMPOSSIBLE.

here


How to Survive an Affair chapter in HIS NEEDS, HER NEEDS
p. 177

...I have seen husbands build new and wonderful relationships with their wives but then go back to their lovers after five or six years of what appeared to be marital bliss. When I ask them why, they inevitably tell me they miss the woman terribly and still love her. At the same time they stoutly affirm they love their wives dearly and would not think of leaving them.

I believe a man like this has told the truth. He is hopelessly entangled and needs all the help possible to be kept away from his lover and stay faithful to his wife. I often recommend that a man once involved in an affair come in to see me every three to six months on an indefinite basis, just to talk about how things are going and to let me know how successfully he has stayed away from his lover. He must resign himself to a lifetime without her. HE MUST CERTAINLY NOT WORK WITH HIS FORMER LOVER AND SHOULD PROBABLY LIVE IN SOME OTHER CITY OR STATE. Even with those restrictions the desire for her company persists...

Let me put this another way. My H and I can "poja" smoking Marlboro cigarettes and shooting up heroin, but it does not negate the damaging health effects. It is the same with continued contact with an OP. That contact keeps a WS triggered. Calling it cute names like "professional" or "business" does not prevent the affairees from being triggered. I ASSURE you if I go drink a bottle scotch whiskey I will be just as drunk if I call it "professional drinks."

The POJA is NOT intended to be used to HARM marriages by avoiding extraordinary precautions. You don't use one concept to break another.

Here is one of MANY radio clips with Dr Harley discussing the importance of NO CONTACT FOR LIFE in the recovery of a marriage. He flat out says "recovery is impossible" with continued contact: radio clip here

It's really pretty simple, what are the relationships people want to maintain, and in what priority.

Granted, public service, will present challenges that test our resolve, but no one can deny the stress added to your life, when APs are inncluded in social circles

If we start out with the fact that weare weak humans beings, and in the natural have weak boudaries, we are more likely to do what we can, to affair proof our marrige, if we really care for it, above all other relationships with other peoples

How much service do we really owe the rest of the world?

Then he or she needs a different job.
It's a matter of prioities...

The career or the marriage.

There is no acceptable compromise.

LostinLies,

I look at your H as being responsible for your discomfort in this situation.

No woman should be able to "pull him aside" for a private conversation. He should have grabbed your hand, pulled you into the conversation and immediately let her know he keeps no secrets from you.

And the moment he knew the conversation was related to the OW, he should have let her know he was not interested in hearing ANYTHING about her.