My co-worker came into work yesterday in a very bad frame of mind. You know that look when you have been crying for hours if not days and you can�t stop shaking and crying. I didn�t really notice because she can be a worry wart over nothing. But there was this sob/shaking from behind that I remember and she suddenly got up and went into another room. A few minutes later I sent someone in to talk to her because I got this chill down my spine and I heard her sobs. I remembered those sobs.

So� what I know is that they have been going to counseling for a few months. Suddenly out of the blue, he tells her he wants a fresh start. I was emailing my H asking him questions. We both came to the conclusion there�s more to the story and actually had a wonderful conversation last night.

This morning I found out her gave her the ILYBNILWY speech.
Am I jumping to conclusions he�s having an affair?

Queenie, he probably is having an affair.

If you can get her to talk to you, please, please send her here and we will help her save her marriage.

If she has told you this much, can you go back to her and explain to her that this is typically a sign of an affair because it means the person has a new point of comparison?

Melody,

Have already told her that, asked her if I could send her the link to here and told her that she can get through this.

I asked her is she thought he was having an affair and she said no. Then I very gently reminded her of what happened to me. I told her about the will call manual about how they all say the same thing. I reminded her of the ILYBNILWY speech. I gently kept reminding her of what happened to me.

I asked her is she recognized him, was he acting like an alien. She said yes. It was the look in his eyes. I reminded her.

I told her that she can get through this, I asked her if she wanted her marriage, and she does and I told her she can do this, that there was a way to walk through this. To not feel alone.

So, hopefully she comes here.

That sounds good. If you can even get her to MB101, we can discuss the possibility of an affair. Most don't believe it at first because they dont' want to believe it. We persuade them to just check to make sure.

Yup that was me! I would have bet a million quid they would NEVER do that. Even though the signs we SO obvious.

It's obvious from your description that the speech was a shock to her, so its sudden and as Mel says, it shows a new contrast point.

She has probably been given a gaslighting explanation which she sincerely believes. Like I did.

Do we have a thread or link describing the whole ILYBNILY phenomenon?

Maybe Queenie can send the link to this BW: might be a bit less daunting for her than coming on here cold.

It was a dr harley article got me on here. I was googling about one spouse wanting a child and the other not, (the gaslighting explanation) and his view was the only one made sense.

I don't have all the details. It's the last two days of school and we aren't alone at all. I do know he is still living in the house, they have been going to counseling for a few months now, but that this decision I think was out of the blue.

What I heard her talking to others about was the explanations he was giving her. I couldn't listen, but I was right on it as soon as I could be. I remember every detail from all those years ago. I'm not wasting a minute being as gentle as I can, but jumping on the window of opportunity.

My H is adament something precipitated it.

You're a really good friend/co-worker Queenie.

In my last marriage, I got the ILBNILWY speech and everyone told me it was an affair but I didn't believe it!! Until I caught them driving down the road together a couple of weeks after he left. Then I put two and two together, did some checking of cell phone records and emails and sure enough! It was an affair.

Most people are shocked to find an affair. Because they don't think like that. I know I didn't.

Like what?

Thanks Pep,

This is something devastated to a person. No matter how you think you are prepared to handle it or how you think you will, NOTHING prepares you. NOTHING.

I'm just sharing what I learned and encouraging in her a way that others around here can't.

And that's because of all of you who helped me.

He had me at the wanting a fresh start, but my H says if he isn't actively having an A, he's thinking about it. "The speech" but almost solitified it for me.

Yeah, we all have that stupid blind trust before it happens

Queenie, that speech means he is in an active affair, not that he is just thinking about it. When a spouse says "ILOUBNLU" it means they already have a new point of comparison. Thats why I think he is in an active affair. Hopefully she will come here and let us help her!

It means they love someone else more. Making the marriage feel like a lesser love, or not 'in love'

And if its serious enough that they are willing to tell their beloved spouse they don't love them romantically, its at a dangerous 'who do I choose' stage.

I have a theory too that it is done at the urging of OW.

My oh-so-caring friend (the OW) certainly wanted me to 'let it all out' after the ILYBNILWY speech.

She wanted him to damage the marriage and send her a message that he preferred her over me.

All OW are so competitive with the BW they are practically cannibals.

Not happy unless the BW is being roasted alive over a slow fire of uncertainty.

I know all this, but this is her walk. I got my speech 8 months before the A was exposed. I was completely blind sided.

Unfortunately I went through it all, and I remember it very clearly. I'm not taking her journey from her, but gently asking her questions to come to her own conclusions and reminding her of what happened to me and the possibility is there.

Queenie, when someone is in shock, it usually takes a straightforward and firm approach to get through the fog. After all, when someone is sitting on the railroad tracks in a daze with a train headed their way, gentle is the last approach I would take.

Maybe a more straightforward and firm approach will get the message across?

You're a good friend Queenie.

I can't say it was suggested as gently to me on here! I got slammed with 2x4s. If I was REALLY as sure as I claimed I would have stopped posting.

But just being alerted to the possibility is enough. You see all these little signs which meant nothing when it was 'impossible'

Q-

Buy her a copy of SAA.
She's going to need it.

See, I would sit her down and say "my dear friend, it is very likely your husband is having an affair. The ILBNLU speech is typically a sign that there is a new point of comparison. It is a classic comment made by cheaters according to Dr Bill Harley, the founder of Marriage Builders and author of Surviving an Affair. I am not telling you this to hurt you, but to warn you so you have a better chance of saving your marriage. I would suggest that you do some snooping to find out what is going on."

It will take a straightforward discussion like this to get through her shock, Queenie. A friend in shock needs a firm hand to guide her off the railroad tracks.

I have done that. That's when I asked her is she wants her marriage and if she does, then I highly encourage her to come here and read and ask questions.

I didn't say anythign about the snooping,thanks for that suggestion.

Good girl! We have a whole new forum called Operation Investigate that can help. If there is any way she can afford a PI, that is the quickest, most effective way. A PI can usually get the goods very fast.

Ok, will let her know that. She also has another couseling appt tonight. I'm wondering what proactivity she can do in there today?

Nil. Unless she's striuck lucky and got a counsellor who knows derriere from arm joint its just an opportunity for the wayward to whine about her.

If he is in an affair, then marriage counseling will be a disaster. And let me explain why. Marriage counselors do not understand the temporary insanity of a wayward. As such, they make marriage wrecking mistakes such as validating their desires. Imagine a falling down drunk going to a counselor and asking her to help him achieve goals based on his current mindset? It is the same dynamic.

If her WS tells the counselor he wants to separate, the counselor, instead of trying to save the marriage, will try to get the BS to "accept" this move, which serves to validate his horrible decision. That makes it harder for her to save this because the WS can always pimp the counselors credentials to give credibility to his bad decisions.

If I were her, I would skip counseling and quietly start snooping. She can either hire a PI or do it herself. Doing it herself would mean slipping spyware on his phone and his computer. Elblaster at spectorsoft.com has good computer and cell phone spyware. I would NOT ask him if he is having an affair. Asking him will gain her nothing but will tip him off so he can do a better job of hiding.

Explain to her that marriage counselors have an 84% failure rate and have a higher personal divorce rate than the general population. They are destructive to marriages. And they are a disaster when there is an affair.

It is very probable that this counselor will support her husbands desire to leave the marriage because she has no idea how to save a marriage.

If she's dead set on it, she should ask for the counsellors success rate.

She should also snoop alongside it.

Good news, the H isn't going with them. This is just for her and the kids.

I have sent her the information and hopefully she takes it and works with it.

It's all we can do today. She is future tripping, I have worked very hard to keep her calm, stay in today and realize there is MUCH she can do.

You are a good friend, Queenie!

Send her the links from here. The snooping article and such. She will look at it and the light will come one. Who doesn't like to read stuff when it's sent to you from a caring friend?

I know I've sent many a BS here and they were all so thankful.

Hi Queenie, you rock because you care.

I cannot think of any place, people or thing when they got the ILYBNILWU speech was NOT having an affair. At that point the A can be served on a silver platter.

Praying she prepares herself and fights for her M.

blessings

Hi Hope, long time no see! How are you?

She is receptive to what I'm saying because of my credibility. She was there when all this happened to me, she knows I recovered my marriage and she watched me walk through it every step. Both plans, etc. we just need some alone time. I've been firm but caring, I've stood my ground and used my experience to lead her here. Tomorrow hopefully we can have more time to talk.

That's the one constant for sure, the infamous speech. Hubby says if he isn't actively in an affair he's thinking about it.

I need time with her alone but it's the last days of school and it's just a zoo!

Can you send her links to MB? So she can read when she has time?

I could with some direction. How do you send links?

I read wrong, she knows the name, repeated back to me when she left for lunch.

Well tell me which ones you would like to send and I can put them together and then you can copy them into an email for her.

Or you can email from the thread.

Or you copy the link and paste it into an email.

Tell me which way you would like to do and I would be happy to help.

Thanks Brain, let me play with it nd get a safe email to use. I'm not sure she wants the,m sent to work.

You're welcome and I totally understand. Good luck and you're a dear friend to care for her.

Let me know if you need any help.

Brain, when this happened to me, a lot of people stood by me on here. I learned a lot and worked the plans. I'm a member of AA and it's my responsibility to give what was so freely given to me.

She's hurting and I truly understand that pain and know you can survive this hit to a marriage. I have to try!

I hear you there. Your story is one of the one's I read when I first got here.

I think alot of us want to pay it forward. Going through infidelity can change us forever.

Queenie!! Look at you, passing it on. Isn't it funny how once we've experienced this stuff, it's like we develop a sixth sense for it? Your friend is so fortunate that she has a friend like you to take her under your wings and guide her. You've been there and know exactly how it feels. Good for you and good to see you!

Brain, I didn't know that. I hope it brought you some peace.

Hi PM, long time.

It always astounds me how myself included want to believe the monster over others. She went to her counselor, told him she might suspect an affair. Her counselor totally told her to find a way to keep him in the house. That statistics show a M can recover far more easily....

However she didn't listen to me, and that she did do a nice Plan A of inviting him to dinner as a family and not discussing relationship. But then she did because H wasnt the monster he had been and asked him if he was. He said no. And now is open to him just staying in one girls bed and trying to work on things.

So today she came to work totally happy that he has had this about face. What struck me was her gaiety in thinking it will be all ok. I had those moments and the fall is hard. She has shut down listening to me and feels they are on the right track.

I really ope so, but guess what, he's off to Bellingham for three days. Please pray that I find the way to reach her.

I learned a lot from your story. Thank you.

Think back. What would've been a good way if someone was trying to help you when you were going through this? What might have you been open to?

My story is way so different, my boys busted him, that's why I found out and there was no denying it. It was my fear that stopped me from stepping outside the box. Honestly, when I became desperate enough to do whatever is when I heard people. Until then I still tried it my way or made excuses.

You have reached her, because she asked him. Thanks to you, she's accepted the possibility.

She's shut down listening you, because deep down she knows its true. The first stage is denial, but even this shows she's starting to accept.

She's elated because - no matter what has been happening recently - he's chosen her. She's going to grab on to that for a while.

When the WS wants to leave and is ILYBNILWY, that's scary and makes the BS desperate.

But her denial and fog won't be able to shut out the signs of an affair. Soon she will start to see them.

Unfortunately she's also tipped him off. Affair goes more underground.

Can you point her in the direction of snooping tools?

I think she will come back to you again when this initial stunned reaction wears off.

He will start displaying the ILYBINILWY more and she will increasingly know something is amiss until she finally realizes she can't deny it any more. THEN she will be more open to snooping, getting the goods on him, etc.

Her best move, since things are going SOOOOOO well, is to pop in and surprise him in the middle of his 3 days.

No clue how far Bellingham is from you, but if she won't show up unexpectedly, maybe she would allow you and your DH to follow him, if it's close enough for you to do so.

Update: I was mistaken on who was leaving for 3 days. Evidently he went out of town for a meeting and only partial day. She is the one going away. I wish she wasn't in light in what she learned, but she needs to get away.

So... he is at the very least having an EA and I gotta say she did her own snooping and figured it out, and confronted him and did it in a way that you would all be proud. No LB at all.

I am going home at lunch to give her my copies of SAA and HNHN, plus whatever else books I have from Harley.

She also is planning to come here and read on things. Her C has reinforced some of the stuff that I have said before hand so that's actually cool. I have proded her to set up a phone call with Dr. Harley, and she is going to read about him first.

She isn't ready to talk to people on here, but is willing to read...

Yeah

I hope she will read the exposure thread and exposes. Do you know if the OW is married?
Exposure 101

OW is in the process of getting a divorce and that's how they hooked up. Evidently they are friends from kindergarten. Oh, btw, he just got back from a trip to his home town and met with her. NOTHING happened he says.

Hmmmmm....

She has the books, and hopefully she opens them up to look at them.

Ah did NOT have sexual relations with that woman!

If only I had a dollar for every time I had heard / read that!

And Queenie, another vote of praise for the support you have offered your friend.

It isn't always easy, but it is the sign of a true friend.

Thank you Cara,

I keep plugging away at her. I'm so proud of her. She read most of SAA and it home with her. She gave it to WH and he read part of it and said that there were no similarities to his situation. Are you KIDDING ME?

She is in the anger stage and resistant still to coming here. I worked all the plans and did a great job with them, but I'm honestly not the best advice. I so keep encouraging her to come here. I have mentioned talking to Dr. H twice now. I feel like I'm losing her in understanding that time is critical.

She keeps snooping into the texts and is p!issed on how much he talks to her. I'm not surprised, I just hurt for her. She is much stronger than I am. She is willing to let her M go, I wasn't. So I'm praying for the words to say to her that turns her to here.

My thoughts are all over the place. She did call OW and told her she was fighting for her M, and that there were beautiful kids involved and to leave them alone. Her WH got so mad at her and didn't come home that night. I was very proud of her and told her so. Her dad who is a counselor, was upset and told her to not rock the boat. ?????? WTF?????

I'd like to round these councillors up and dump them on an island where they can 'help' each other.

Her own father telling her to play nice with OW!

I know... I almost dropped but then I took my opportunity to reinforce that counselors can respond that way when they don't understand what they are dealing with.

I was so frickin proud of her for doing that. She did tell him it's not like she has a manual to walk through this and I wish she had added UNLIKE YOU.... YOU MORON, YOU ALIEN

Goodbye marriage with bad advice like that!! If she wants to save her marriage she had better be rocking the boat.

I was like OMG, you have WAY MORE courage than I did, which is the truth. I told her she was doing great. She admitted that she deals with things by stuffing and she isn't sure she wants to fight for her M. I told her she had that right and it was her choice and explained how M that don't make it are often because the BS doesn't want to do the work.

She thinks its backwards. Of course it is. But after recovery you have that time to get back everything you gave and more. At least that has been my experience.