I found this site after doing an internet search re: "surviving being the other woman." I suspect I may not be welcome here, but I suspect what you all have to say is what I need to hear. I will share my story.
I met MP in University, over 25 years ago. He was my first love and we had an intense and unique relationship for three years. We were deeply in love but sadly circumstances got in our way and he ended up living in another country. Because we were fairly young, we decided to move on. We both had other relationships. I got married and had three children. It was an unhappy marriage and ended in divorce two years ago. He got married and had a son. He is still married.
I hadn't spoken with him in years. I had a death in the family and the obituary was in our university newsletter. MP contacted me via email, provided to him by the Alumni office. Initially our emails were friendly and not romantic. We started speaking on the phone. His wife told him she wanted a "trial separation". Initially he was upset by this but our friendship was evolving into something much deeper.
In May, several months after communicating on the phone and via email, our relationship became physical. We do not live close to each other, so this was during travel. We have seen each other three times over the past 6 months. He still lives with his wife and son. He says they will be divorced but he is hoping she will move to the east coast first, so that he can be closer to his son. He is scared to file for divorce or reveal the affair as he worries he will lose his son. He says he loves me more than anything and wants to marry me. He has spoken in detail about his desire to marry me.
I am starting to realize that he may not leave her although he seems dedicated to convincng me otherwise. Because his wife does not know, I am not able to call him. He calls me. It is so difficult when I'm having a hard time to not be able to contact him.
Sometimes, like today, I feel so angry with myself and with him. I think about contacting his wife and telling her the truth. I feel like I'd want to know. I know this would end things permanently between MP and I. That scares me. I love him. I am in a horrible painful bind. I've asked him to be honest with her. He is scared of hurting her and feels that she will eventually want a divorce on her own terms, and therefore hurting her isn't necessary.
What do I do?
Liz, on the contrary, you are very welcome here.
Just by your posting here tells me you would much rather have a nice, open and honest life than this hell pit you've both created for each other.
Dr H recommends that married people do not have opposite sex friends, particularly not former lovers as it is easy for those feelings to reappear at any given point. You thought those old feelings were buried, but they never are.
You know full well that his excuse about fear of losing his son is laughable. He will have access if he is a good parent. He knows you are not a fool but that you are willing to swallow some lies. Lies he is happy to give.
Of course if he DOES leave, he will lose the joy of joint parenting with his son's mother and them all being under the same roof. If this is what he wants, he will never leave for you.
Not unless the affair damages the marriage so much that it falls apart.
Is this what you wish to do? Damage his marriage and attack his family for your own benefit?
I would advise agaisnt it because marriages resulting from affairs are nearly all total failures. The figures for divorce in affairages are appalling.
Not to mention it is very wrong.
What do you wish to do? Do you wish to attack this family, or find the strength to walk away?
The fact you chose this site to post on gives me some hope regarding your answer and our ability to help.
Could you also tell us your marital status please?
God bless.
You also need to move this thread to the Surviving an Affair forum where most of the vets with infidelity experience tend to be. Just click 'notify' and ask the mods to move it.
In the meantime, some food for thought from a FOW.
My perspective is from that of the OW who became the new wife. I hope this helps someone.
You will get to be responsible for destroying the life of another woman. You will get to be responsible for destroying the lives of all children involved. No, children are not resilient. They are sponges and take in everything around them whether they are capable of processing it or not. And when they are not able to process their world being shattered and all the conflicting messages about right and wrong, you will get to deal with all their issues and mistakes and anger as they grow up. You will have to know all the while that whatever is happening is a direct result of your selfishness. If the child fails at school, can’t control their anger, becomes promiscuous, falls into addictions, can’t maintain good relationships of their own you get to know in the back of your mind and deep in your soul that you are responsible for what molded that child. Whether you admit it or not, you WILL know. You will not be able to fix this; it will not work out, smooth over, or ever be okay. Even if you look like the Cleavers on the surface it is under there bubbling and will come out. Don’t think you are special and you will escape this result.
Maybe right now you are in a place where you are in deep denial about the children and you don’t give a crap about the BW. Let me appeal to your sense of selfishness then and tell you what you personally are going to suffer in the years to come…
You are marrying a cheater. Someone who didn’t like what they had at home so they went looking for something better. Or maybe you offered him something better? It doesn’t really matter who started it, who lied more, it doesn’t even really matter if you were tricked into a relationship not knowing he was married at first. Your consequences will be the same. You now have a spouse who gave up one family and chose you and yours. Feels great right? Think again. How long do you think it will take before you stop feeling like a prize?
The minute things go wrong, and face it, in all marriages there are these times, he is going to be looking at you and wondering if you were worth it. And you will feel it. Even if he doesn’t say it right out. He is going to realize that this marriage requires just as much work as the old one did and you are not nearly as perfect in real life as he thought you were and he is going to be angry for what he has sacrificed for you. Now you get to be insecure and feel like you are always fighting to be worth it to him.
You are going to be labeled as the whore for the entire rest of your life. No matter what changes or personal revelations you come to, you will be the whore that wrecked a home and stole a husband. There will be innumerable family conflicts over this. You are likely to have his kids hating your guts forever. This means that every holiday, school concert, soccer game, big family event like graduations and weddings, and grandkids (yes, it will last that far and long) will be sources of conflict instead of happy times.
You will probably not be invited to a lot of things that your spouse should be attending with his children. You may show up anyway, asserting your position as the new wife. But it will be a conflict. You spouse will have to over and over choose between you and his original family. He is going to resent you for this. You are going to get so tired of constantly being the center of conflict and so tired of all the hate directed at you and no one is going to sympathize with you. When you do impose yourself where the BW and her children and extended family and friends are you will feel the scarlet letter that you wear burning in your chest no matter how high you try to hold your head. I promise you, you will. You and your stolen spouse will fight over this more than you can imagine in the years to come.
And guess what?! When he starts to pull away from you and works late more, or isn’t insatiable in bed with you anymore, or cuts his hair a new way you are going to be terrified. You are going to be terrified because you know exactly what he might be doing next. You are going to be suspicious probably before he actually even does anything because you already know he is untrustworthy.
Chances are he is going to cheat again too. Except this time on you. Now, you get to feel the pain of being a BW doubled by the pain of realizing exactly what you did to someone else. The guilt and shame on top of your already devastating pain from being cheated on will be unbearable. Now listen to this closely NO ONE IS GOING TO CARE!! You are going to hear and know that you should have known better and have the old adages about cheaters thrown in your face over and over. You will not be able to come somewhere like these boards for support because they are going to crucify you! You will be all alone with your pain and your heartache with no one to blame but yourself.
Do not think you are special. DO NOT THINK IT WON’THAPPEN TO YOU!!!!!!!!!! The stats are overwhelmingly high. No one gets married thinking that their spouse will cheat. No one. I promise you are not different or better somehow.
Occasionally an affair partner will grow a conscience and want to be a good person and here is what happens…
Now, let’s say that you make changes in your heart and your life. Let say you find God or in whatever way it comes to you, you realize that you have done something horrendous. Okay, now you actually do care about those kids and that BW. Well too bad. You can’t fix it. Yes, God will forgive you if you repent. Not many others will. And you will have one heck of a time trying to forgive yourself. You will feel sick and ashamed all the time. You will cry many bitter tears.
You will not be able to look at your spouse and feel the same way you once did. All of your memories of when you first met, your first kiss, the early days of your relationship will be tainted. All of those memories that are supposed to be sweet will be sour. You will not be able to enjoy them because you know that whole time it was wrong, wrong, wrong! What are you left with? Not much.
You are going to try to offer apologies, you are going to try to figure out what you can possibly do to make amends and there are going to be no easy answers. You will be told by many that you can’t repent and stay married. You will be told by just as many that if God has forgiven you that another divorce would be just another sin. You will make yourself crazy over this because you want to do the right thing for once in your life and you have put yourself in a situation where it is impossible to know what that it.
Also, if you are one of the few who have this attack of conscience at some point down the road, you are still going to be dealing with all the same stuff above that the unremorseful affair partner is dealing with except it’s probably going to hurt you even more because you now genuinely care. Too bad no one will think you are sincere or trust your words. Why should they, remember what you did?? Of course you do, now go cry some more as if it will help.
There are no time machines people!! You are making a mess bigger than you can ever clean up!!
There is really a lot more I could say about how this is going to play out but this is already getting very long.
Like I said, this is from my perspective but just change the pronouns and it is the same for anyone entering into an adulterous relationship. Man or woman, whether you are the WW, WH, AP, it’s going to end in ruin.
You have been warned.
And if anyone out there is currently involved in waywardness and wants to ask me something, fire away! I will answer any and everything asked if it will get you to stop what you are doing and reconcile your family before it is too late.
Unfortunately if you are already married to your AP don’t bother asking me. I can’t help you because I cannot help myself. I live in the ruins of my own creation. You like me should have seen the light sooner. Sorry.
To the BS out there who may read this, I can only hope that knowing that your spouse is not going to be happy and their AP is not going to be happy helps you feel a little bit vindicated. I promise you that even if they look like the picture of happiness on the outside they are not. They have a cancer eating their souls. You can have a better life. They won’t.
NewCreation2011
I've asked him to be honest with her. He is scared of hurting her and feels that she will eventually want a divorce on her own terms, and therefore hurting her isn't necessary.
His betrayed wife may not know exactly what is wrong in her marriage but have no doubt she can feel his emotional absence even when he is physically near. That is the most hurtful of all. When she does discover what is going on, and she will find out, his lies and deceit will cut like a knife. That is what hurts the most...how your spouse could look you in the eye and lie.
Is this the type of man you want? Someone who is willing to let his victim get so fed up that she files for divorce and SHE will be the bad guy while he rides off into the sunset? He is cruel and selfish.
I think you know what you should do.
Having been on the receiving end of the "I will wait for you to get fed up of my neglect" treatment - it IS exceptionally cruel.
It makes you feel like an unloved, but loyal, old dog. Forgotten, but depended upon to wait patiently in the wings.
Not very husbandly. Not at all husband material.
And it is only someone trenches deep in an affair who could possibly think that someone would file for a D without a real and visible reason for the problems they feel.
True wives don't file for a D because they are puzzled and lonely. They figure out the truth about WHY they are puzzled and lonely. If they are like me, they snoop and then they shame the adulterers before the world. So much so they dumped each other.
And of course his marriage is unhappy because he is investing his time outside the marriage while he continues his charade of being the husband and father.
You can see that this man will run from his problems rather than investing the time to actually fix them. What do you think he will do when the two of you begin to have stress. Past behaviour is a prediction of future behaviour and you have already discovered that he does not take his vows and promises seriously.
Tell his betrayed wife and then end all contact with this guy for life. You need to get some self respect and find a man who is not already taken. Sorry I cannot think of a nice way to say it. You are on the road to ruin.
Thank you. Thank you.
Someone asked my marital status. I am divorced for two years. I live with my daughters.
I agree that the "staying for his son" line is a weak argument. Yes, I think he does wish he could have daily parenting and divorce would change that.
Intellectually, I know that ending things is the RIGHT thing to do. I love him and it hurts. I also understand what all of you have said about trust in the future. If he could do this to HER, could he do it to me? I guess I delude myself and believe that what we have is intense, unique and unbreakable. But, when I take the cold hard look: I know what we have is NOT real because that bottom line is there are too many lies.
I know he lied to me this weekend, for example. It was his anniversary and I have no doubt he was doing something with his wife. Not coincidentally, he was unavailble to talk...had lots of water tight excuses. It hurts. And I feel like I don't even deserve to comfort myself because I'm not his wife.
I've read a lot about Exposure on this board. Should I just cut him off and allow him to repair his marriage? I suspect he will continue to lie to his wife about where he was during those three weeks we were together. She will likely never know he had an affair although I assume she has felt some of the signs. Do I just "leave it alone" and try to move on myself? Should I tell this woman her husband has had a sexual affair? I realize that I feel very hurt and that it could feel like a relief, on some level, to let her know. Then again, I guess it is his place to tell her and I doubt he ever will.
Thank you again for being understanding with me. I know as "the other woman" I am pretty much scorned by most.
MP contacted me via email, provided to him by the Alumni office.
For a married man to go to these sort of lengths, to reconnect with a former lover, while she was clearly vulnerable and grieving, is a HUGE red flag to me.
I would say he is a serial cheat, seeking a victim, vulture-style.
I guarantee his wife did not know he was offering sympathy in this way to an ex girlfriend.
How do I move this thread to the other section?
Is this your real name? You should change your posting name if it is.
I encourage you to read other threads. There are threads from both betrayed and wayward people on this site. You will see a very NONunique pattern. Every person thinks their 'love' is unique and special in some way, every person thinks that their situation is different. It is not. The same pattern, same lies, same everything is told in every story, every affair situation, worldwide.
Here is the man you have chosen, to be your lover and to parade in front of your daughters: a man who will prey on a vulnerable woman; a man who will lie to EVERYONE in his life, to selfishly get what he wants; a man who will have sex with his wife, leave and have sex with his girlfriend, then come home to have sex with his wife again, without telling her (and I am guessing unprotected sex, no?), exposing her to life threatening illnesses and other things without care or concern for her wellbeing; a man who is creating due to his selfishness, a marriage that is wrought with questions, a lack of intimacy, a lack of connection, with no concern for how this is impacting his wife, the mother of his child, OR his child; a man who is creating havoc in YOUR life, even though you are so 'special and unique' and seems to care as little for you as his own wife; a man who is cake eating by getting his needs met by two different women, who are both in despair, with no concern or care for either of them; a man who is, as was pointed out, willing to walk away from his marriage with his wife never knowing what happened, what failed, always feeling that perhaps it was HER and not knowing it was HIM and his AP that caused the destruction of her marriage; a man who is willing to destroy his sons life, to cake eat.
Is this the kind of man you would want for your daughters? Because you are role modeling for them just want to accept in their lives.
Your AP is not refraining from telling his wife about your A because of one reason: self protection.
It has nothing to do with his son, if he cared about his son's well being he would not be in an affair!
It has nothing to do with 'protecting' his wife. If he cared AT ALL about protecting his wife he would not be in an affair!
It is certainly NOT to protect you, he has the least amount invested in you.
It is to protect his cake eating, to make sure he continues to have BOTH women meet his needs. And to protect his reputation as a good family man, a man of honor, when indeed in the shadows, he is not one.
Intellectually, I know that ending things is the RIGHT thing to do. I love him and it hurts. I also understand what all of you have said about trust in the future. If he could do this to HER, could he do it to me? I guess I delude myself and believe that what we have is intense, unique and unbreakable. But, when I take the cold hard look: I know what we have is NOT real because that bottom line is there are too many lies.
Hi Liz, welcome to Marriage Builders. I know that you know intellectually that you are screwed. Allow me to validate that instinct with a few facts. First off, your affair is doomed. Affairs only have a 5% chance of ever making it to marriage. 95% of them crumble within 2 years. Of those that make it to marriage, there is a 70% divorce rate. The reason is because the very traits that enable an affair, deceit, thoughtlessness and selfishness, eventually make it into the affair and quickly destroy it.
Not that he will ever leave his wife for you, but you should know if he did, your relationship would be doomed. His kids and his family would likely never accept you for your role in the breakup of their family.
And most importantly, this guy does not "love" you. A man does not degrade a woman he "loves" in this manner.
He has symbolically spit in your face. For him to have an affair with you only means that he has absolutely no respect for you. IF he did, he would not drag you into a filthy, sordid adulterous affair. An affair is about as honorable and romantic as 2 pigs getting it on in the pig pen. yuck.. There is nothing romantic about that!
If you want to regain your honor and decency, then send his wife a letter telling her what you have done to her. CC your affair partner and let him know the affair is ended. That act of just compensation to his wife will leave you with SOME honor and dignity after what you have done.
Don't choose to be a cockroach who is scrambling for crumbs at another woman's table of life. Walk away and commit to never being a "mistress" again. IT is a filthy defilement of you as a woman and a human being.
Many, many, MANY people involved in an A believe that although their AP lies to the horrible, evil, terrible spouse...they would NEVER lie to their wonderful, match made in heaven OW!
Wrong!
Why would you think he could lie to his family, mother, father, wife, even his SON, and yet somehow magically, not be capable of lying to YOU?
What you know about your AP is that he has terrible boundaries, and will lie to anyone to get his way...including you.
I realize that I feel very hurt and that it could feel like a relief, on some level, to let her know. Then again, I guess it is his place to tell her and I doubt he ever will.
IT is your place to tell her what you did to her. You had an affair with her husband. You owe her an amends for doing that. Amends comes in the form of informing her what you have done to her. THAT is how you restore your own dignity and climb out of the pig pen.
Also, ask yourself why in the world you would ever consider a future with a cheater? Do you believe in sharing your man? Because you already know he believes in adultery.
Are you ok with that? [not that he will ever leave his wife, he won't]
I do want to commend you for coming to this site, even knowing you might be told things you didn't want to hear.
It says that deep down, you have a moral compass that is telling you that you are making a horrible choice, and living an immoral lifestyle. It means you have a desire to follow a different path.
The question is: will you?
As I posted earlier, I am the other woman in a relationship with a married man. Obviously, the man's relationship with his wife was misrepresented to me...it was "on the rock's", "essentially over" etc. I know now that he likely will not leave his wife even though he "promised" me he wanted to marry me and that I was not the cause of his failing marriage. He isn't going to leave. I realize he is fooling his wife and hasn't told her anything about me. I know many of you have been on the difficult end of this (trust me, both ends are hard). Would you have wanted your spouse's lover to contact you with the cold, hard facts? Or would you have preferred to figure it out yourself? Or live in denial and hope to mend things? I have the urge to let her know what has transpired and yet I feel like that probably is not my "role" at all.
I encourage you to read other threads. There are threads from both betrayed and wayward people on this site. You will see a very NONunique pattern. Every person thinks their 'love' is unique and special in some way, every person thinks that their situation is different. It is not. The same pattern, same lies, same everything is told in every story, every affair situation, worldwide.
Here is the man you have chosen, to be your lover and to parade in front of your daughters: a man who will prey on a vulnerable woman; a man who will lie to EVERYONE in his life, to selfishly get what he wants; a man who will have sex with his wife, leave and have sex with his girlfriend, then come home to have sex with his wife again, without telling her (and I am guessing unprotected sex, no?), exposing her to life threatening illnesses and other things without care or concern for her wellbeing; a man who is creating due to his selfishness, a marriage that is wrought with questions, a lack of intimacy, a lack of connection, with no concern for how this is impacting his wife, the mother of his child, OR his child; a man who is creating havoc in YOUR life, even though you are so 'special and unique' and seems to care as little for you as his own wife; a man who is cake eating by getting his needs met by two different women, who are both in despair, with no concern or care for either of them; a man who is, as was pointed out, willing to walk away from his marriage with his wife never knowing what happened, what failed, always feeling that perhaps it was HER and not knowing it was HIM and his AP that caused the destruction of her marriage; a man who is willing to destroy his sons life, to cake eat.
Is this the kind of man you would want for your daughters? Because you are role modeling for them just want to accept in their lives.
No, I have not introduced him to my daughters. It has been a long distance relationship. I will not introduce him as he is married. That is one of the huge issues. And of course he claims he sleeps separately from wife and has not had intimate relations with her since Jan. Of course I'm starting to have my doubts and that hurts like h*ll.
I do want to commend you for coming to this site, even knowing you might be told things you didn't want to hear.
It says that deep down, you have a moral compass that is telling you that you are making a horrible choice, and living an immoral lifestyle. It means you have a desire to follow a different path.
The question is: will you?
Unwritten, thank you for that realization. Of course I know it is WRONG on so many levels. I hate myself but sometimes love when you are very lonely is like a drug. Truly. And as destructive. I had a miserable divorce two years ago and haven't dated since then. When MP walked back into my life it was a relief to have someone I already knew, someone familiar and safe. Now I realize he isn't mine at all. Yes, I will follow a different path. I will tell him I cannot participate in a relationship that is so destructive for me and deceitful for another woman...his wife. When I know it needs to end, I feel angry at HIM. I should feel angry at myself. It makes me want to reveal all to his wife, but I know I'll only be hurting more people.
He still lives with his wife and son. He says they will be divorced but he is hoping she will move to the east coast first, so that he can be closer to his son. He is scared to file for divorce or reveal the affair as he worries he will lose his son. He says he loves me more than anything and wants to marry me. He has spoken in detail about his desire to marry me.
I am starting to realize that he may not leave her although he seems dedicated to convincng me otherwise. Because his wife does not know, I am not able to call him. He calls me. It is so difficult when I'm having a hard time to not be able to contact him.
You realise that he his set up the prospect of your future together based on a condition that he knows will never happen?
His wife will never move to the East Coast, so he will never leave her for you. The truth is he has no intention of leaving her for you. If he had he would just leave.
I have in my possession a letter sent by my H to his OW crying that he could not run away with her then, the week that her H found out she was "lunching" with him and tried to lock her in the house forever. About 9 months into their relationship, her H discovered them flirting on the phone and rightfully went mad. He banned her from calling my H (they live in separate countries) or from leaving the house except to pick up the kids, but of course she managed to do both, and to see my H right under her H's nose. She begged my H to take her away, vowing to give up her kids (then about 13 and 16) for him, but he told her that he could not give up his kids for her - his son was only 6, and the sweetest little boy. He could not ruin his own son's life. One day he'd love to be married to her and he would honour and support her in all she wanted to do with her life. He was lucky she had ever looked at him and he would marry her in a heartbeat if he could, but he could not destroy his own son. (This was all in the letter.)
Their relationship carried on with my H expressing these sentiments all the time, but with a clear understanding that she would wait for him. A son of only 6, then 7, then 9 was such a clear way of making this commitment never happen, don't you see?
When I found out about the affair he immediately threw her under the bus. This happened many times because I was stupid enough to set myself up for repeated D Days. Each time my H couldn't leave it was because I would keep his kids away from him. Finally, OW and I spoke on the phone and I told him my H was free to go. I would buy him out of the house and the kids, by then 10 and 17, would make up their own minds about whether and when they saw him. I wasn't keeping him there financially and I wasn't keeping his kids away from him.
OW didn't give up hope and continued to call him at work for another 5 years, although they never met again. Last year, when my son was nearly 15, I told him once again to leave and he asked to stay. He was retiring from his job and would never have access to her via work again. It is clear to me now from his behaviour that he never intended to leave. He loved the excitement of having mistress who would pour love down the phone at him every day at work, and who would have no-strings sex with him in hotels because she loved him. He loved having odd nights away with her in Europe when neither of their families suspected a thing (they both travelled to Europe for work). He loved having a good marriage with lots of sex with me and living with his kids who adored him because he spoiled them. He had a wonderful life until the affair became more trouble than it was worth, with her on the phone at work, in tears begging him to leave with her, and me causing hell at home telling him to pack his stuff and get out on every D Day.
I now see that he never intended to leave and that having a 6 year-old son (when the affair started) was a wonderful, convenient blessing for him. (I don't feel I've won any kind of competition, BTW, as a man who behaved like that to me and his kids is no prize.) I see this, but I wonder if OW sees this even now, after having been dumped for about the tenth time and his excuse of having young kids no longer being valid. I wonder if she sees how well she was played, and I wonder if you do.
Married men are not available for an open relationship with anyone else. Anyone who has an affair with them knows this at the start, and the men feel they owe you nothing for having given your life over to them. He's told you he is not available and you have given yourself to him anyway. He supports his wife financially and in other ways and has made a public declaration to the world that he will do so. If his wife were feeling herself to be in a loveless relationship, why would she be staying? If she knew he could nto bear to be with her and longed to leave, do you not think she would tell him to go? What woman wants to live with a man who is unloving to her, and unhappy?
The answer is that he is not unloving and unhappy towards her. He makes her feel that their marriage is worthwhile, so what does that say he is doing while he is with her?
He gives you what leftovers he can squeeze out when she is not around. You are taking the scraps from under another woman's table - like a cockroach. Do you not have more self-respect than that?
Liz,
And of course he claims he sleeps separately from wife and has not had intimate relations with her since Jan.
Right around the time you started communicating with him, if I understand your timeline. This is not a coincidence. OM is claiming that he had the affair because of this bad marriage, in fact his marriage is bad because of his affairs. There is a good chance he has had many btw.
God Bless
Gamma
I realize that I feel very hurt and that it could feel like a relief, on some level, to let her know. Then again, I guess it is his place to tell her and I doubt he ever will.
IT is your place to tell her what you did to her. You had an affair with her husband. You owe her an amends for doing that. Amends comes in the form of informing her what you have done to her. THAT is how you restore your own dignity and climb out of the pig pen.
Melody, thank you for your opinion. I do have the feeling that contacting her would only serve to make ME feel better and would hurt her (and him) in terrible ways, so I'm not sure it would really serve as "amends". In your opinion, would I call her? Email her? Tell her I am the woman with whom her husband has had an adulterous relationship for 7 plus months? Do I give her details? Do I give her data (pictures, emails, voicemails)? Seriously...would that be helpful to her or is it better to just stop the affair from my end and hope that HE has the decency to come clean to her and make his own amends? I don't know...I'm asking this not to be defensive, but to get guidance from someone who has been on the other side.
And of course he claims he sleeps separately from wife and has not had intimate relations with her since Jan. Of course I'm starting to have my doubts and that hurts like h*ll.
Have no doubt that your AP is sleeping with his wife...or another OW. You really believe he's only had sex with you on the three occassions you met up...in a year?
In your opinion, would I call her? Email her? Tell her I am the woman with whom her husband has had an adulterous relationship for 7 plus months? Do I give her details? Do I give her data (pictures, emails, voicemails)? Seriously...would that be helpful to her
Yes it would be helpful to her. She has the right to make a decision about her life and her marriage. WH isn't going to show decency. Didn't you just say that WH was hoping to make BW the bad guy and have her end the marriage w/o the knowledge of the A? If WH/OM is so miserable in his marriage, then he should be happy if she kicks him to the curb but you know better. Get real.
And of course he claims he sleeps separately from wife and has not had intimate relations with her since Jan. Of course I'm starting to have my doubts and that hurts like h*ll.
Have no doubt that your AP is sleeping with his wife...or another OW. You really believe he's only had sex with you on the three occassions you met up...in a year?
It is time to pull your head out of the sand here. Deep down, you KNOW he is lying to you, in the same manner he is lying to everyone else in his life. You know he is lying about leaving her. You know he is lying about having sex with her. Every night while you sit by the phone waiting for it to ring, she is in bed having sex with her husband. Chew on that.
And I'm sure that's painful. But that is what you signed up for when you decided to start an affair with a married man! His wife had no choice, she is sharing with you and didn't get to choose, in fact she doesn't even have the courtousy of knowing it!
If you want MORE from a man than just crumbs, you must require MORE for yourself and OF yourself.
I think about contacting his wife and telling her the truth. I feel like I'd want to know. I know this would end things permanently between MP and I. That scares me.
Make no mistake. THIS, is the reason that you are not calling his wife right now.
Not to protect her (if you cared in the least for his wife's protection you would have ended this 5 minutes ago).
To protect YOU, and to protect your AFFAIR.
Are you going to follow the right path?
You said yes, but now you are trying to play with words and pretend that you do not want to tell his wife because it will CAUSE HER HARM in some way. The TRUTH about her life is not what will cause her harm, it is the AFFAIR that you are CURRENTLY STILL IN that is causing her harm.
The TRUTH is your first step down the path to a moral life.
Will it end your affair? Whether it does, or doesn't, is irrelevant, because you are going to end it anyway, aren't you? Isn't that what you meant when you said you were ready to take the right, the moral path?
I ended it with HIM. I have blocked his email and his number from my phone. It is still unclear to me what I should or if I should contact her. I did a google search of her workplace and did find an email. I don't know.
LW, there is no need to start another thread. Please stick to your original thread...it makes it easier for posters to follow.
Tell her. Do it in one letter/phonecall/e-mail, that you are certain she receives. At the end, apologize, give her a way to contact you if she needs to, and exit.
Here's why: Now that he's rid of you, you know damn well he's going to play the same game with another woman. As gesture of humanity, you owe it to BW to let her know what's likely to happen.
I realize that I feel very hurt and that it could feel like a relief, on some level, to let her know. Then again, I guess it is his place to tell her and I doubt he ever will.
IT is your place to tell her what you did to her. You had an affair with her husband. You owe her an amends for doing that. Amends comes in the form of informing her what you have done to her. THAT is how you restore your own dignity and climb out of the pig pen.
Melody, thank you for your opinion. I do have the feeling that contacting her would only serve to make ME feel better and would hurt her (and him) in terrible ways, so I'm not sure it would really serve as "amends". In your opinion, would I call her? Email her? Tell her I am the woman with whom her husband has had an adulterous relationship for 7 plus months? Do I give her details? Do I give her data (pictures, emails, voicemails)? Seriously...would that be helpful to her or is it better to just stop the affair from my end and hope that HE has the decency to come clean to her and make his own amends? I don't know...I'm asking this not to be defensive, but to get guidance from someone who has been on the other side.
FYI exposure of an affair is not MelodyLane's personal opinion, it is recommended by Dr Harley and the MB program.
Telling this poor woman the truth about her life is one small step to making amends. She deserves to know. Telling her is the right thing to do. Withholding that information and keeping her in the dark about her life, is the WRONG thing to do. Being selfish and protecting yourself and your AP is the WRONG thing to do. Don't you want to do the right thing?
When you tell her, whether that is by phone or email (phone is best as you are sure she gets the information), you give her whatever information SHE NEEDS. Do you see a pattern here? The pattern is to stop thinking about what YOU need and what your selfish AP NEEDS, and start thinking about what your VICTIM needs.
Here's another pattern: your AP does NOT HAVE DECENCY. Relying on his 'decency' to come clean to his wife and make amends, is about as silly as thinking he is only having sex with YOU during this 'long distance affair.' Come on now.
I ended it with HIM. I have blocked his email and his number from my phone. It is still unclear to me what I should or if I should contact her. I did a google search of her workplace and did find an email. I don't know.
Contact her. And I would do it now before he has a chance to tell her about the 'crazy lady that is stalking him.'
You already said you would want to know. You would want to know the truth about your life. Why is it that she doesn't deserve the same?
'crazy lady that is stalking him.'
Yup, that's how my ex described 1 of his OWs when she contacted me.
How did you end it? What did you say to him?
After you contact his wife and provide her with the information she needs, you should eliminate any means for him to contact you. This means if necessary CHANGE your emails, phone #'s, etc.
This is for two reasons:
One, to protect YOU. You want to be a decent, moral woman. You want to require more for yourself. Yet you may start to have withdrawal from him and get weak, and making it impossible for you to contact him will protect you from trying to do so. This is not the kind of man you want to be with. This is not the kind of man you want to parade around in front of your children. Protect yourself from him.
Two, to protect your VICTIM. Whether your AP's BW decides to try and recover her M, or whether she decides to leave it, you can STOP doing damage to this poor undeserving woman by not throwing salt in an open wound. By not continuing contact with her husband. By not being an unwelcome interloper into her life.
You cannot repay the BW for what you have stolen from her, but you can start to act out of respect for her. That is the most that you can do to try and make amends for this betrayal.
Tell the wife. She deserves to know, so she can make a decision for her life and her childrens life. Do as unwritten said, do it now.
[
Melody, thank you for your opinion. I do have the feeling that contacting her would only serve to make ME feel better and would hurt her (and him) in terrible ways, so I'm not sure it would really serve as "amends".
Yes, it would serve as an amends because you would be alerting her to the destruction going on behind her back. If her bookkeeper was stealing money from her, would you not warn her becuase it would "hurt her in terrible ways?" Of course you wouldn't accept that logic because it is irrational. Just as it is irrational to not tell her because it would "hurt her." It is the AFFAIR that has hurt her. And it will not "hurt" her husband, it will HELP HIM become a better man.
In your opinion, would I call her? Email her? Tell her I am the woman with whom her husband has had an adulterous relationship for 7 plus months? Do I give her details? Do I give her data (pictures, emails, voicemails)? [quote]
I would call her and email her all the evidence.
[quote] Seriously...would that be helpful to her or is it better to just stop the affair from my end and hope that HE has the decency to come clean to her and make his own amends? I don't know...I'm asking this not to be defensive, but to get guidance from someone who has been on the other side.
You should do both. Give her all the evidence and end your affair with her husband.
I found this site after doing an internet search re: "surviving being the other woman."
Hi, Liz, welcome to Marriage Builders. I can't believe noone has posted Dr. Harley's Q&A columns for the other person in an affair yet:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5037_qa.htmlhttp://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5037b_qa.html
'crazy lady that is stalking him.'
Yup, that's how my ex described 1 of his OWs when she contacted me.
We have a gaslighting thread for things that WS's say to their BS, but not to the AP. We should, they ALL say the same thing!!!
"our love is special, unique, different..."
"this is what God wants"
"we are soul mates"
"my wife/husband is an evil, terrible, horrible person who (fill in the blank)"
"you are so much better than my wife/husband because you (fill in the blank)"
"I would leave my wife/husband but...(fill in the blank with any number of excuses)"
"I love her but I'm not IN love with her..."
"we sleep in seperate bedrooms...we do not have sex"
"we live as roommates"
The wayward handbook on how to keep the desperate AP from taking away cake.
As I posted earlier, I am the other woman in a relationship with a married man. Obviously, the man's relationship with his wife was misrepresented to me...it was "on the rock's", "essentially over" etc. I know now that he likely will not leave his wife even though he "promised" me he wanted to marry me and that I was not the cause of his failing marriage. He isn't going to leave. I realize he is fooling his wife and hasn't told her anything about me. I know many of you have been on the difficult end of this (trust me, both ends are hard). Would you have wanted your spouse's lover to contact you with the cold, hard facts? Or would you have preferred to figure it out yourself? Or live in denial and hope to mend things? I have the urge to let her know what has transpired and yet I feel like that probably is not my "role" at all.
(Why are you starting another thread with this question?)
I posted to you on your first thread, about how my H strung his OW along for 9 years.
I would have given anything for anyone to have told me about the first two years. I found out myself, and when I told OWH about my discovery, he cried for the wasted years of hope that he had spent since his own discovery.
His own children found out about three years before I finally exposed to him. They found out during the first year. His son ran out of credit on his phone and pinched his mother's (OW). He discovered "hundreds" of "filthy" text messages from my husband to his mother. He remembered the period following his mother's previous "emotional affair" (actually another 4-year PA with her driving instructor) that ended some five years earlier. He remembered the fights between his parents and his father's begging her not to leave. That OM would not leave with her then either, but she felt that she could not stay in her marriage and got a job and a flat in another European country. When her H nixed that job, she told him she hated him and would never forgive him. She stayed in the marriage but carried on her affairs, and here was her son discovering yet another. He went to his older sister and showed her the texts, and together they decided not to tell their father, because they did not want to see him hurt like that again, or to split up the family. So those two kids (about 13 and 16) kept that secret for YEARS.
And while two kids who should not have had to take on that responsibility tried to patch up their parents' threadbare marriage, my H and OW got deeper and closer for another two years until I found out for myself (and still I did not expose for nearly another two years).
So much pain was caused by so many people knowing and not exposing. I knew, her H knew and their kids knew, and because of our collective silence lives were wrecked - mine, her kids, her H's, and my kids even though they did not know why their parents were always unhappy. And though I hold no sympathy for her, OW wrecked her life waiting for my H for 9 years.
I would give anything not to go through what I did when I found out about the depth and scale of the deception. I would have been grateful for anyone, including OW herself, to have told me the truth about my own life.
In this case, you are the only person who can tell the BW. You are the only person who knows about this. You know her H won't tell, so who else can?
You've harmed her horrendously, and you owe her a debt that you can never repay. Pay part of your debt now and tell her.
You are getting honest opinions...on your original thread. Why did you start a new one?
I do have the feeling that contacting her would only serve to make ME feel better and would hurt her (and him) in terrible ways, so I'm not sure it would really serve as "amends".
Your feelings and opinions on how it will be received are inconsequential. You are obligated to tell this woman the truth for no other reason than: it's the truth. You have invaded her life in a very intimate and destructive way and she has a God-given right to know about it.
In your opinion, would I call her? Email her? Tell her I am the woman with whom her husband has had an adulterous relationship for 7 plus months?
Choose one, but get it done. Personally, I'd hope you'd have the fortitude to, at least, tell her via telephone if you don't have the fortitude to face her. And yes, introduce yourself as "Liz, the woman with whom your husband has been involved in an adulterous affair for 7-plus months."
Do I give her details? Do I give her data (pictures, emails, voicemails)?
Provide her whatever details she requests.
. . . is it better to just stop the affair from my end and hope that HE has the decency to come clean to her and make his own amends?
Are you kidding? Decency? Depend on his decency? The decency of a man who's been betraying his family with you for 7-plus months? Holy cow . . .
Your AP is caught within the throes of an addiction. He is addicted to the high of the affair, not necessarily to you. You know this, as you described it YOURSELF as being "like a drug." If you don't expose him to his wife, he won't stop. He will continue to contact you until you break down. If you don't break down, he will seek out another woman to act as his crack pipe. Believe it, Liz. As much as it hurts to have to face it, you're not that special; you're just available.
Put a stop to all of it NOW. Tell his wife.
Do you not like the advice to tell your victim about the crime that you have committed against her? Are you attempting to find people who are going to tell you to continue being deceitful?
The OW deserves sympathy when she truly had no idea and thought she was dating a single man.
That ship has sailed, Liz!
You NOW know he is married and you know you are a long distance secret (and that means you are probably not the only one either!). If you are now seeking permission to NOT tell her, then I'm afraid you are falling into the co-conspirator role and that is unacceptable.
You NOW know he is married
She has always known.
My mistake, I thought she didn't know at first.
I think OW here is asking for permission and sympathy for her actions. I'm not buying the "oh poor wife" bit.
Do you not like the advice to tell your victim about the crime that you have committed against her? Are you attempting to find people who are going to tell you to continue being deceitful?
Uhm, no? I have expressed gratitude for the opinions shared here. Don't know what you are talking about.
Well, we actually don't have to guess.
It's all yours, Liz: listen to the folks here, bite the bullet, and confess your offense to your victim....or not.
"Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth." Luke 15:10
"Same here." NG 03:12:12
I know this would end things permanently between MP and I. That scares me. I love him. I am in a horrible painful bind.
In a later post, you said that you had ended the affair, blocked his email and phone.
Can you clarify which is true? What kind of bind are you actually in? Is the affair ended permanently or not? Is it your goal to end the affair or are you hoping to give a divorce ultimatum?
Do you not like the advice to tell your victim about the crime that you have committed against her? Are you attempting to find people who are going to tell you to continue being deceitful?
Uhm, no? I have expressed gratitude for the opinions shared here. Don't know what you are talking about.
She's talking about the fact that you started a new thread to ask the same question you asked on your first thread - about whether you should confess. Her question was asked on your second thread. It looked as if you started it because you did not accept the answers from those already posting to you.
Hi, Liz;
did you get to read these links?
Do you not like the advice to tell your victim about the crime that you have committed against her? Are you attempting to find people who are going to tell you to continue being deceitful?
Uhm, no? I have expressed gratitude for the opinions shared here. Don't know what you are talking about.
She's talking about the fact that you started a new thread to ask the same question you asked on your first thread - about whether you should confess. Her question was asked on your second thread. It looked as if you started it because you did not accept the answers from those already posting to you.
I started the thread here because someone suggested it was a more appropriate place for it and then a mod moved the original thread as well.
Thank you Markos. Good info.
I know this would end things permanently between MP and I. That scares me. I love him. I am in a horrible painful bind.
In a later post, you said that you had ended the affair, blocked his email and phone.
Can you clarify which is true? What kind of bind are you actually in? Is the affair ended permanently or not? Is it your goal to end the affair or are you hoping to give a divorce ultimatum?
Same questions. Please clarify your goals and purpose here.
AM
Liz, I haven't had time to do more than skim your thread, and I need to go spend time with my wife this evening, so I'll be brief:
Please read my sig line. I can tell you a bit about where you might stand as the other woman -- because for a brief (but not brief-enough) spell 4 years ago, I used to have one.
Today, I wouldn't touch her with a 40-foot pole; and if I should somehow live to be 700 years old, the time I spent with her will still stand as my greatest regret. The affair was the least worthwhile & worst thing with which I have ever had anything to do. Bar none.
If you've got questions, ask.
General question: Does Dr. Harley recommend that the AP tell the BS? I understand that Dr. H states that the affair should immediately be ended and exposed. My question is "By whom should the affair be exposed?" If the main purpose of exposure is to end the affair, what is the goal of the AP exposing an affair that already ended? The AP might be able to clear her conscience and enlighten the BS and prevent future affairs, but to my understanding, those would be side benefits of exposure; they are not the main purpose of exposure. I agree that it is an excellent idea for the AP to tell the BS, but I'm wondering if it is actually necessary for the AP to do it if the WS refuses.
General question: Does Dr. Harley recommend that the AP tell the BS? I understand that Dr. H states that the affair should immediately be ended and exposed. My question is "By whom should the affair be exposed?" If the main purpose of exposure is to end the affair, what is the goal of the AP exposing an affair that already ended? The AP might be able to clear her conscience and enlighten the BS and prevent future affairs, but to my understanding, those would be side benefits of exposure; they are not the main purpose of exposure. I agree that it is an excellent idea for the AP to tell the BS, but I'm wondering if it is actually necessary for the AP to do it if the WS refuses.
Would you want to know if your husband was cheating on you? Regardless of where the info came from, would you want to know?
General question: Does Dr. Harley recommend that the AP tell the BS? I understand that Dr. H states that the affair should immediately be ended and exposed. My question is "By whom should the affair be exposed?" If the main purpose of exposure is to end the affair, what is the goal of the AP exposing an affair that already ended? The AP might be able to clear her conscience and enlighten the BS and prevent future affairs, but to my understanding, those would be side benefits of exposure; they are not the main purpose of exposure. I agree that it is an excellent idea for the AP to tell the BS, but I'm wondering if it is actually necessary for the AP to do it if the WS refuses.
Thank you Jessica...this has been my question.
Yes, I did end the affair...TODAY. I was wondering if HE should tell his wife. After reading here that it is unlikely he would be forthcoming, rather he'd make me out to be the stalker, I decided I should inform her myself. I was unable to get a work phone number for her but did contact her on her work email stating that I was deeply sorry to tell her of my role and I gave her my contact information if she wanted details or evidence. As I indicated earlier, I have blocked MP's phone and email. I told her I would not be in further contact with him.
Anyway...thanks again to all of you. You supported me in doing the right thing, which I knew was the right thing all along, just needed to hear it from voices of experience.
I agree that it is an excellent idea for the AP to tell the BS, but I'm wondering if it is actually necessary for the AP to do it if the WS refuses. My question is "By whom should the affair be exposed?"
The answer to this question is: whoever KNOWS. What matters is that the BS gets the truth.
General question: Does Dr. Harley recommend that the AP tell the BS? I understand that Dr. H states that the affair should immediately be ended and exposed. My question is "By whom should the affair be exposed?" If the main purpose of exposure is to end the affair, what is the goal of the AP exposing an affair that already ended? The AP might be able to clear her conscience and enlighten the BS and prevent future affairs, but to my understanding, those would be side benefits of exposure; they are not the main purpose of exposure. I agree that it is an excellent idea for the AP to tell the BS, but I'm wondering if it is actually necessary for the AP to do it if the WS refuses.
Thank you Jessica...this has been my question.
Yes, I did end the affair...TODAY. I was wondering if HE should tell his wife. After reading here that it is unlikely he would be forthcoming, rather he'd make me out to be the stalker, I decided I should inform her myself.
And that is exactly why you should have informed her. If you had pressured him to do it, it would have not been done.
I was unable to get a work phone number for her but did contact her on her work email stating that I was deeply sorry to tell her of my role and I gave her my contact information if she wanted details or evidence. As I indicated earlier, I have blocked MP's phone and email. I told her I would not be in further contact with him.
Good job!!
I agree that it is an excellent idea for the AP to tell the BS, but I'm wondering if it is actually necessary for the AP to do it if the WS refuses.
How else would the BS find out if the WS refused? Most WS's will not bust themselves so it typically is left to others to tell the BS.
My ex-husband DID cheat on me, and I found out because the OW told me. I am not asking whether it is the right thing to do. Speaking from personal experience, I believe the wife has a right to know.
I know this would end things permanently between MP and I. That scares me. I love him. I am in a horrible painful bind.
In a later post, you said that you had ended the affair, blocked his email and phone.
Can you clarify which is true? What kind of bind are you actually in? Is the affair ended permanently or not? Is it your goal to end the affair or are you hoping to give a divorce ultimatum?
Same questions. Please clarify your goals and purpose here.
Well, as you can see...I joined today, ended the affair TODAY and exposed TODAY. Not sure how that needs clarifying.
AM
General question: Does Dr. Harley recommend that the AP tell the BS? I understand that Dr. H states that the affair should immediately be ended and exposed. My question is "By whom should the affair be exposed?" If the main purpose of exposure is to end the affair, what is the goal of the AP exposing an affair that already ended? The AP might be able to clear her conscience and enlighten the BS and prevent future affairs, but to my understanding, those would be side benefits of exposure; they are not the main purpose of exposure. I agree that it is an excellent idea for the AP to tell the BS, but I'm wondering if it is actually necessary for the AP to do it if the WS refuses.
Thank you Jessica...this has been my question.
Yes, I did end the affair...TODAY. I was wondering if HE should tell his wife. After reading here that it is unlikely he would be forthcoming, rather he'd make me out to be the stalker, I decided I should inform her myself. I was unable to get a work phone number for her but did contact her on her work email stating that I was deeply sorry to tell her of my role and I gave her my contact information if she wanted details or evidence. As I indicated earlier, I have blocked MP's phone and email. I told her I would not be in further contact with him.
Anyway...thanks again to all of you. You supported me in doing the right thing, which I knew was the right thing all along, just needed to hear it from voices of experience.
Good job LW. I know that was not easy but
you did the right thing. If you start feeling withdrawls of OM, anger, sadness, etc., please come here and post.
My husband DID cheat on me, and I found out because the OW called me. I am not asking whether it is the right thing to do. Speaking from personal experience, I believe the wife has a right to know.
May I ask how she contacted you and what did she say? Was it helpful to learn details or was knowing he'd had an affair all you wanted to know? And, I'm sorry this happened to you.
...did contact her on her work email stating that I was deeply sorry to tell her of my role and I gave her my contact information if she wanted details or evidence.
Well done, friend.
My husband DID cheat on me, and I found out because the OW called me. I am not asking whether it is the right thing to do. Speaking from personal experience, I believe the wife has a right to know.
May I ask how she contacted you and what did she say? Was it helpful to learn details or was knowing he'd had an affair all you wanted to know? And, I'm sorry this happened to you.
Liz, it is important to give her as much information as possible and to make yourself available for follow up questions. If she doesn't have the follow up contact and as much information as possible, her husband will dismiss it and she will have no where to go. If she has the evidence he can't get away with denying it.
Tell her every thing you know, give her names, dates, times and any correspondence you have. Give her as much as you can so she has a complete picture. That will help her make a decision about her marriage. The more information you can give her, the better.
Melody, I felt conflicted as I was contacting her on a work owned email. I did tell her the purpose of my email (the affair) and said I would be available to her to provide details, and yes evidence such as emails/pictures. I didn't want to put too much revealing data in an email I wasn't sure was private for HER sake. Unfortunately, the only way I know to contact her is at her office and they have a system of emails using the employees first initial and last name along with the company name. If I don't hear from her in a couple of days, I will send her a written note to her office address. I don't want to cause her more pain or embarassment at work.
You have done the right thing.
As a BS, Thank You for your courage and resolve to end this affair and tell the wife.
It happened many years ago. I was pregnant with my second child and I came downstairs to the kitchen early one morning. My ex had already left for work, and my firstborn was still asleep upstairs. The light was blinking on the answering machine, and I clicked to hear the message. I heard a woman's voice, crying and telling my ex that she was still in love with him, and couldn't let him go. I remember walking in circles around the kitchen, in my bare feet and my nightgown. I kept stopping to replay the message, trying to get my mind around the words. I kept thinking this isn't really happening to me right now. Please God, no. And then I very consciously thought "I will remember this moment for the rest of my life." It happened 14 years ago, but it is still as fresh in my mind as if it happened yesterday.
LW,
Yes, LW. You have done the right thing. Today was a step in the right direction towards restoring your integrity and character.
Be sure to keep dark and not let your affair partner communicate with you. Those good feelings you experienced with this innocent and ignorant (at least until today) woman's husband are often compared to those feelings that occur during an addiction. Many, if not most people, will experience some sort of withdrawal from the affair partner. Get through the withdrawal period without contacting him.
I know there is alot of reading here. When you have an opportunity, read Dr. Harley's basic concepts about the love bank and how romantic love occurs when someone meets our emotional needs.
AM
My ex-husband DID cheat on me, and I found out because the OW told me. I am not asking whether it is the right thing to do. Speaking from personal experience, I believe the wife has a right to know.
Well then, I'm unsure what you are asking.
In all cases I'm all for the AP exposing themselves if they have the guts, but more so in this case. Liz had some serious feelings for this guy, but her conscience trumped her feelings, and that's a sign of a good woman admitting to doing an awful thing to another man's wife and owning up to it. It wasn't out of a need for revenge, but a need to make things right.
I respect that.
I'm not sure what you are getting at.
"In all cases I'm all for the AP exposing themselves if they have the guts, but more so in this case. Liz had some serious feelings for this guy, but her conscience trumped her feelings, and that's a sign of a good woman admitting to doing an awful thing to another man's wife and owning up to it. It wasn't out of a need for revenge, but a need to make things right.
I respect that."
I agree with this ONLY if LW never contacts this man again. She broke it off with him TODAY.
AM
LW,
Don't give up this site just yet. You can bet that your feelings will play havoc on you in the coming weeks "withdrawal". You can assume the OMW will try to contact you, she may want more details or proof. The OM may try to contact you.... You just blew up his fantasy word. He will have withdrawals as well, and may look to reconnect in the future, hoping you're willing to give it another try. In all those occations, STAY STRONG.
There are plenty of people here to advise and support you. You have taken the first step, not the last, in rebuilding your life.
God Bless, Stay Strong.
Melody, I felt conflicted as I was contacting her on a work owned email. I did tell her the purpose of my email (the affair) and said I would be available to her to provide details, and yes evidence such as emails/pictures. I didn't want to put too much revealing data in an email I wasn't sure was private for HER sake. Unfortunately, the only way I know to contact her is at her office and they have a system of emails using the employees first initial and last name along with the company name. If I don't hear from her in a couple of days, I will send her a written note to her office address. I don't want to cause her more pain or embarassment at work.
I think you did the right thing and agree with your thinking here. When you give her the evidence, she really needs to be prepared for it.
"In all cases I'm all for the AP exposing themselves if they have the guts, but more so in this case. Liz had some serious feelings for this guy, but her conscience trumped her feelings, and that's a sign of a good woman admitting to doing an awful thing to another man's wife and owning up to it. It wasn't out of a need for revenge, but a need to make things right.
I respect that."
I agree with this ONLY if LW never contacts this man again. She broke it off with him TODAY.
AM
And exposing on the same day speaks volumes for her. That's pretty gutsy. Gonna be kind of hard to maintain contact with the BW watching like a hawk. But you are certainly right, NC means NC....forever.
LW, do you really want to stay involved, or get involved again with a "man" that would do this to his wife? If he'll do it to her, what makes you think he won't do it to you? Oh, I would also bet the farm that you aren't the only one he's flinging around with.
This guy's a player and a vulture. Nothing more, nothing less. I think you'll discover this soon enough.
I guess my point was that if the AP has already ended the affair, and WS continues lying to the BS, the AP's exposure isn't necessarily going to be effective. My ex went on to have more affairs. Eight years later, I divorced him. When the papers were signed and we were walking out of my attorney's office, he asked me to have coffee with him. We walked into a cafe and sat down. For the very first time, he came clean. Talk about "too little, too late."
I guess my point was that if the AP has already ended the affair, and WS continues lying to the BS, the AP's exposure isn't necessarily going to be effective.
Of course it will be effective. It doesn't matter WHO exposes the affair to the BS, exposure effectively informs the BS. It doesn't matter if the WS lies about it. You don't need the admission of the WS to know the truth.
His wife's world is exploding right now, LW. But you did the right thing. I will pray for her. And for you.
I didn't mean it would be an ineffective way to inform the BS; I meant it wouldn't necesarily stop the WS from continuing to cheat.
But don't we already know that? I don't quite understand your point. Everyone knows there are no guarantees. That doesn't mean that exposure is not effective.
I was just wondering if Dr. H had written anything specifically on the subject of the AP doing the exposure. Fortunately, it is a non-issue at this point.
Can you think of any reason why he would? I can't. It really is beside the point. What matters is that the BS is informed.
His wife's world is exploding right now, LW. But you did the right thing. I will pray for her. And for you.
It already exploded, quite a while ago.....but now his wife can hear the explosion and try to protect herself from further injury.
I know there are sample exposure letters on this site, but if I remember correctly, they are written from the perspective of the BS. I was wondering what Dr. H would advise in situations where the AP feels compelled to expose. Would he recommend a different type of exposure letter? Would he suggest sending it to the same people that a BS would send it to? What if the AP sent an exposure letter to the WS's employer who then fired the WS, leaving the family without a source of income? In that situation, the AP's approach would have actually added to the BS's problems. And how much detail would he suggest an AP provide to the BS? Those are the sort of things I was wondering about. No big deal.
I know there are sample exposure letters on this site, but if I remember correctly, they are written from the perspective of the BS. I was wondering what Dr. H would advise in situations where the AP feels compelled to expose. Would he recommend a different type of exposure letter?
Dr Harley hasn't recommended ANY letters. Those letters were written by me and other board members for board members. They are just a guide that should be used to suit the specific situation. I have never heard of an OP sending an exposure letter to an employer. Maybe because such a workplace exposure letter would be self incriminating. Even so, if a WS gets fired, it is because of the affair, a choice he made. And if he has a workplace affair he has to leave anyway.
I know there are sample exposure letters on this site, but if I remember correctly, they are written from the perspective of the BS. I was wondering what Dr. H would advise in situations where the AP feels compelled to expose. Would he recommend a different type of exposure letter? Would he suggest sending it to the same people that a BS would send it to? What if the AP sent an exposure letter to the WS's employer who then fired the WS, leaving the family without a source of income? In that situation, the AP's approach would have actually added to the BS's problems. And how much detail would he suggest an AP provide to the BS? Those are the sort of things I was wondering about. No big deal.
The consistent message on the Radio Show is to expose.
Protecting people from the natural consequences of their self destructive behavior enables their behavior.
Allow them to face consequences.
As a BS, Thank You for your courage and resolve to end this affair and tell the wife.
X2. Well done Liz! I knew you were tough.
I don't think this guy would have had a chance with you if he hadn't had a pre-existing lovebank as an ex, and hadn't contacted you following a bereavement. You clearly usually have much more common sense.
I don't say this to let you off the hook for having an affair, because that was a horrendous thing and something you can never undo.
I say it to make you aware of your own vulnerabilities as you enter withdrawal now. And to remind you of his vulture-like instincts.
Because the two of you have been making lovebank deposits, you're unfortunately hooked - in spite of your common sense and tough no nonsense approach. When you used the word 'drug' you were so right. Affairs are also much more heady and addictive than normal relationships.
You can expect withdrawal to last about three weeks. You will feel an enormous urge to contact him and will make up all sorts of delusional reasons as to why you need to. You need closure..he still has your ratty old tee shirt..you need to know what he told his wife...etc.
If you resist, you'll get through it and you will be free. Free to meet someone who can love you freely back. If you don't, the withdrawal clock goes back to day one.
Remember too that he will come after you. He has his own addiction to those trashy feelings and now he really needs you to back him up. His gameplan will be to puff up your feelings of love with more convincing promises. Then when he has your lovebank sufficiently doped up he will plead for you to help him and tell his wife it wasn't true.
Make sure he has no way of contacting you and ruining your plan. Secure all fences.
I have not heard from the wife yet. I did receive an email from MP written from a different email address. It was about how I underestimated his feelings, etc. I don't think his wife has received my email yet. I was strong and I deleted the email without responding. I will stay busy and try not to let the thoughts I'm having consume me. Yes, it is like "withdrawals" yes, it is hard but I did this to myself.
A lot of waywards, when trying to end an affair, have to change all contact info or ways AP contacted them...phone, email address, etc.
And good for you for doing the right thing!
Are you strong enough to send an e-mail or letter to him (copying her) ordering him never to contact you again, or you will consider pursuing harassment charges? If you hadn't deleted it (or could retrieve it), "replying" to his note with it attached would have had even greater impact.
Put a star on 04 December on every calendar from now on, okay?
I have not heard from the wife yet. I did receive an email from MP written from a different email address. It was about how I underestimated his feelings, etc. I don't think his wife has received my email yet. I was strong and I deleted the email without responding.
If any more get through delete without READING. You will need to change your email address (it's too easy to get around blocking) and view him as a burglar intent on 'getting in'. What other methods might he use to get in touch? Think ahead - and block.
Is FB blocked? Twitter? Can he call you at work? Can he reach you through a third party? Mail you something? Think. He needs you to maintain an addiction to having two women at once and he will get through ANY gap you leave open.
If he gets a message through, throw it away unread, delete it unread, tell the messenger you won't listen. You will need to draw on your strength.
Are you strong enough to send an e-mail or letter to him (copying her) ordering him never to contact you again, or you will consider pursuing harassment charges? If you hadn't deleted it (or could retrieve it), "replying" to his note with it attached would have had even greater impact.
Put a star on 04 December on every calendar from now on, okay?
I like this but it could be a bit risky while it she still has only a 'guessed' email address for the BW.
The BW might not be copied in, but the WH will be warned about exposure and he will start a smear campaign on his 'stalker' who pretends to be an OW.
But later on when she has good contact details, its a great idea. Liz could also maybe direct the BW here to the site too for help.
Clearly, I misunderstood. I apologize.
Couldn't she just whitepage.com the phone number and mailing address? I agree your on the right path but seems like she is holding back a bit. Not trying to be harsh. When I have to do the right thing and its incredibly hard I put myself in the mind frame that the goal is to get a million dollars after doing said task. Increases my motivation tenfold!
I have not heard from the wife yet. I did receive an email from MP written from a different email address. It was about how I underestimated his feelings, etc. I don't think his wife has received my email yet. I was strong and I deleted the email without responding.
If any more get through delete without READING. You will need to change your email address (it's too easy to get around blocking) and view him as a burglar intent on 'getting in'. What other methods might he use to get in touch? Think ahead - and block.
Is FB blocked? Twitter? Can he call you at work? Can he reach you through a third party? Mail you something? Think. He needs you to maintain an addiction to having two women at once and he will get through ANY gap you leave open.
I don't have facebook or twitter. We don't have mutual friends anymore, we were very much an island, so I suspect the contact will end soon. I do have some things of his. I debate sending them to his home addresss knowing full well his wife is as likely to receive them, but I don't know if this is more hurtful than purposeful. For now I will try and stay busy and keep him out of my mind as much as possible.
If he gets a message through, throw it away unread, delete it unread, tell the messenger you won't listen. You will need to draw on your strength.
Couldn't she just whitepage.com the phone number and mailing address? I agree your on the right path but seems like she is holding back a bit. Not trying to be harsh. When I have to do the right thing and its incredibly hard I put myself in the mind frame that the goal is to get a million dollars after doing said task. Increases my motivation tenfold!
I do have their home address. MP works out of the home so I suspect he will just intercept anything sent to the house.
LW,
Don't send any things of his to their home. Never contact him again for any reason. Talk only to his wife if she asks for additional information. My guess is that she has put many pieces of information together and her world is now upside down.
BTW, you said your marriage ended a couple of years ago in divorce. Why did your marriage end? Was there infidelity on either your husband's or your part? Was there neglect? How old are your children? How did they handle the divorce?
AM
LW,
Don't send any things of his to their home. Never contact him again for any reason. Talk only to his wife if she asks for additional information. My guess is that she has put many pieces of information together and her world is now upside down.
BTW, you said your marriage ended a couple of years ago in divorce. Why did your marriage end? Was there infidelity on either your husband's or your part? Was there neglect? How old are your children? How did they handle the divorce?
AM
Yes, my 12 year marriage ended in divorce in 2010. I do not believe there was infidelity involved. My ex-H comes from a very religious (conservative judiasm) family. We tried to assimilate to each others cultures, but in the end, it did not work. It is a long and complicated story. We have a decent post-divorce relationship and overall the girls have done well. They have strong friendships and are doing well in school. My ex-H has remarried.
LW,
All marriages require "extraordinary care". (When you get a chance, read Dr. Harley's writings about this topic, as well as the topic of the policy of joint agreement.) Marriages between spouses with cultural or religious differences are especially vulnerable. I can understand what may have happened. I am glad your daughters are doing well. Was this your first marriage or had you been married previously?
This website and Dr. Harley's books have a plethora of information on choosing a good marriage partner, building a passionate marriage and maintaining it. My H and I highly recommend all the MB materials.
AM
Great job exposing to the BW. Seeking this site out, the advice of many betrayed, and being able to follow through with advice to end the affair and expose to the BW all in the same day...says something about your character.
In the MB program, the focus is on ACTION and not just words. You have taken action and started the ball rolling toward a more peaceful and moral life that you can be proud of.
I think someone already recommended this, when you are deep in withdrawal and feel like reaching out to your AP, come here instead. Many people on here have been through withdrawal, either as a WS themselves withdrawing from the AP, or even a BS withdrawing from the WS in a Plan B. You can get help, advice, or even a place to vent. Whatever keeps you from contacting him.
Again, great job. You should be proud of the actions you took yesterday.
LW,
All marriages require "extraordinary care". (When you get a chance, read Dr. Harley's writings about this topic, as well as the topic of the policy of joint agreement.) Marriages between spouses with cultural or religious differences are especially vulnerable. I can understand what may have happened. I am glad your daughters are doing well. Was this your first marriage or had you been married previously?
This website and Dr. Harley's books have a plethora of information on choosing a good marriage partner, building a passionate marriage and maintaining it. My H and I highly recommend all the MB materials.
AM
This was my only marriage. As I said, it was a tough situation. my ex-H has married someone from his religious community and is happier. No matter what I did, I was never "part" of that community and he always felt torn. In a way, I felt he was "with" his family of origin and never with me or the children. Our daughters live primarily with me and this has worked out well. Ex-H's new wife will likely have kids and I suspect, sadly, he will assume a smaller role in the lives of his daughters.
LW, why not try calling the company to confirm the email addy. When I exposed I called the company before sending the email to see if the BH was in the office. I even spoke to the BH but didn't get into the exposure on the phone. I did tell him I was sending him an email and wanted to make sure he was in the office to receive it.
Depending on the company, the operator may verify the email. Say something like "I am sending an email to Jane Smith. Can you please verify her email as jsmith@ABC.com? Is Ms. Smith in today?" If they won't verify the email, then you may want to speak to her. If they verify the email, you can decide whether or not you want to speak to her. The BH in my case worked in a very small office so it was easy for the operator to tell me he was in the office.
Also I would keep the emails from OM. You don't have to read them but if the BW contacts you, I'd keep them so you can forward them to her. It will show her that he is in contact and depending on the content...trying to save his butt.
Liz, who in your life knows about this? Parents, siblings, friends?
I would recommend you bite the bullet and tell them also. You will really need help with this.
LW,
Are you done with this site?
Now that you exposed the affair to the man's wife, are you back in contact with him?
AM
It's possible that Liz is hopelessly immersed in the ****storm she unleashed by exposing her affair to BW. If so, she's probably second-guessing the advice she received (even though her conscience led her in the first place) and regretting ever opening this thread.
Hopefully, Liz, BW and WH will ALL come back here to get support and guidance in cleaning up the mess.
I know he lied to me this weekend, for example. It was his anniversary and I have no doubt he was doing something with his wife. Not coincidentally, he was unavailble to talk...had lots of water tight excuses. It hurts. And I feel like I don't even deserve to comfort myself because I'm not his wife.
Yes. Cheaters lie and cheat.
My soon-to-be-ex-wife and I spent our anniversary together a few weeks ago. As far as I can tell, she told her affair partner that we didn't have an enjoyable time together, or spend very much time together. (We spent the entire day together until she had to go to work.)
As far as I can tell, she has also led him to believe we had no physical (much less sexual) relationship over the past two months, which is also not true.
Now that I think about it, she lies/has lied to him much more than she ever lied to me.
I've read a lot about Exposure on this board. Should I just cut him off and allow him to repair his marriage? I suspect he will continue to lie to his wife about where he was during those three weeks we were together. She will likely never know he had an affair although I assume she has felt some of the signs. Do I just "leave it alone" and try to move on myself? Should I tell this woman her husband has had a sexual affair? I realize that I feel very hurt and that it could feel like a relief, on some level, to let her know. Then again, I guess it is his place to tell her and I doubt he ever will.
I think you should tell his wife and tell his family and friends. You should, however, tell them you want to END this affair for good and you want to have nothing to do with any of them anymore, and tell them how sorry you are.
There are 3.5 billion men in the world and chances are one of them is right for you, and isn't married to someone else with kids.
I think LW got what she wanted out of MB. She informed OMW about the affair and resumed contact with her affair partner - hoping that OMW would leave him and LW could have him. I doubt we will see her again.
AM
I got married and had three children. It was an unhappy marriage and ended in divorce two years ago.
I'm just now reading this thread. I suspect Liz has "moved on" as the saying goes.
But, I think there is something of value in the above quote.
Just look at the quick way Lis dismisses her marriage."It was an unhappy marriage." That's it. No explanation. No responsibility for her part in creating an unhappy marriage. No insight what-so-ever. No mention of how the divorce 2 short years ago impacted her THREE children. In fact, the remainder of Liz's post is all about her relationship with a married man.
It's as if the 3 children and her Ex-husband are phantoms in her consciousness. Nothing beyond background players. Liz is
*the star* of her show, and everyone else is an "extra".
I am in a horrible painful bind.
Liz is very aware of how her choices hurt her. She is deliberate in avoiding any other person's feelings. Especially the feelings of the betrayed wife are missing from Liz's consciousness.
Let's look at how an OW views the BW. This is not an extraordinary example. It is typical.
I think about contacting his wife and telling her the truth. I feel like I'd want to know.
Liz feigns concern for the wife not knowing only because it is causing an inconvenience to the continuation of the affair. Things are not going the way Liz had hoped.
Because his wife does not know, I am not able to call him. He calls me. It is so difficult when I'm having a hard time to not be able to contact him.
Above is the real reason Liz thinks she may want to inform the wife about the affair. Not because the wife has the right to know, but it would allow Liz easier contact with OM without the wife being such an obstacle.
Other persons, during the selfishness of adultery, are not important. Including Liz's own children. OM's children. OM's wife.
The only thing that matters is that Liz feels entitled to spend more time with a married man than she is being allowed.
The complete lack of insight into herself is so clear when we get an OW participating on these forums.
This is WHY, dear MBers, that one cannot expect to TALK SENSE into a foggy wayward. They are impervious to logic and decency .... at least for awhile.
I have witnessed OW who do recover themselves after being so OM-focused. Not always, but it is possible.
Then, Liz writes:
I've asked him to be honest with her. He is scared of hurting her and feels that she will eventually want a divorce on her own terms, and therefore hurting her isn't necessary.
Liz has never considered the possibility that OM is also lying to her. This too is typical.
Liz has never considered that OM is scared to end the affair for fear Liz will get angry at the rejection, and blow up his family.
Liz has never (at least not yet) come to the realization that the TRUTH is this, Liz is a side-dish for OM. He has no intention of divorcing his wife.
Liz is lost.
She has failed as a wife.
Failing as a mother. And worst of all, failing to be a decent human being.
Liz is pitiful. Liz is a cautionary tale. Poor Liz.
Pep,
I asked Liz about her first marriage. She said it broke up because of religious and cultural differences. Her husband is already remarried.
I do think she was hoping her AP's wife would dump him. My take is that Liz really didn't intend to end the affair and go no contact with this man.
AM
I got married and had three children. It was an unhappy marriage and ended in divorce two years ago.
I'm just now reading this thread. I suspect Liz has "moved on" as the saying goes.
But, I think there is something of value in the above quote.
Just look at the quick way Lis dismisses her marriage."It was an unhappy marriage." That's it. No explanation. No responsibility for her part in creating an unhappy marriage. No insight what-so-ever. No mention of how the divorce 2 short years ago impacted her THREE children. In fact, the remainder of Liz's post is all about her relationship with a married man.
It's as if the 3 children and her Ex-husband are phantoms in her consciousness. Nothing beyond background players. Liz is
*the star* of her show, and everyone else is an "extra".
I am in a horrible painful bind.
Liz is very aware of how her choices hurt her. She is deliberate in avoiding any other person's feelings. Especially the feelings of the betrayed wife are missing from Liz's consciousness.
Let's look at how an OW views the BW. This is not an extraordinary example. It is typical.
I think about contacting his wife and telling her the truth. I feel like I'd want to know.
Liz feigns concern for the wife not knowing only because it is causing an inconvenience to the continuation of the affair. Things are not going the way Liz had hoped.
Because his wife does not know, I am not able to call him. He calls me. It is so difficult when I'm having a hard time to not be able to contact him.
Above is the real reason Liz thinks she may want to inform the wife about the affair. Not because the wife has the right to know, but it would allow Liz easier contact with OM without the wife being such an obstacle.
Other persons, during the selfishness of adultery, are not important. Including Liz's own children. OM's children. OM's wife.
The only thing that matters is that Liz feels entitled to spend more time with a married man than she is being allowed.
The complete lack of insight into herself is so clear when we get an OW participating on these forums.
This is WHY, dear MBers, that one cannot expect to TALK SENSE into a foggy wayward. They are impervious to logic and decency .... at least for awhile.
I have witnessed OW who do recover themselves after being so OM-focused. Not always, but it is possible.
Then, Liz writes:
I've asked him to be honest with her. He is scared of hurting her and feels that she will eventually want a divorce on her own terms, and therefore hurting her isn't necessary.
Liz has never considered the possibility that OM is also lying to her. This too is typical.
Liz has never considered that OM is scared to end the affair for fear Liz will get angry at the rejection, and blow up his family.
Liz has never (at least not yet) come to the realization that the TRUTH is this, Liz is a side-dish for OM. He has no intention of divorcing his wife.
Liz is lost.
She has failed as a wife.
Failing as a mother. And worst of all, failing to be a decent human being.
Liz is pitiful. Liz is a cautionary tale. Poor Liz.
Pep, this a useful insight into an AP's mind and confirmation that a wayward mind is immune to decency, a conscience and logic ... a mind that can't be reasoned with.
Thanks for the post
It's possible that Liz is hopelessly immersed in the ****storm she unleashed by exposing her affair to BW. If so, she's probably second-guessing the advice she received (even though her conscience led her in the first place) and regretting ever opening this thread.
Hopefully, Liz, BW and WH will ALL come back here to get support and guidance in cleaning up the mess.
This is another example of a scorned OW who is mad at MM because she finally realized that MM is lying to her as well as his W. She was mad because MM spent his anniversary with his W (self entitlement) and came to this site for ammunition to get him in trouble with his W. MM has called her back and told her she is his soul mate, the best love of his life, blah, blah, blah and now the A is back on again and she is continuing to delude herself that this man is leaving his W. I will bet the farm that she didn't even send an email to his W's work and if she did it was just an attempt to put a nail in MM's coffin (marriage). It was selfish of her to come to a M rebuilding website and pretend to want help only to continue in her selfishness to attempt to break up a M. The very fact that she said she allowed the A to happen because MM told her he wasn't happy shows her lack of M vows and self respect for herself, her children and M. Yet another attempt to steal another woman's H. What a shame.
She is pulling out the big guns now ... EXPOSURE ... she is willing to destroy it all for her ill gotten gains.
The sad reality is in the end ... he will never have her because she will be fully and completely responsible for assulting his son (only child) with their adultery.
She actually screwed herself ... her cruelty and shear lack of empathy has reared its ugly head. Mr. OM can now see this ... she isn't too his standards anymore ... now she is simply yesterday's garbage. At least he still has a marriage to save ... Ms. Liz nuke bombed her marriage years ago.
Pep, this a useful insight into an AP's mind and confirmation that a wayward mind is immune to decency, a conscience and logic ... a mind that can't be reasoned with.
Thanks for the post
... immune to decence, conscience, and logic...
Dr. Harley has compared affairs to addictions.
Addiction has a little thing called "The Four C's of Addiction."
They are as follows (with quotes edited to reflect adultery):
1) Loss of
Control over use
�Every time I try to limit my contact to only once a week, I end up calling every day.�
�I try to limit myself to one call per day but once I start, I can�t seem to stop until we end up in bed together.�
2)
Continued use despite knowledge of harmful Consequences
�I know my affair destroyed my marriage and family, but I can�t stop seeing her.�
�I have to stop my affair because my life is out of control, but my affair partner is the only option for me.�
3)
Compulsion to use
�All I do is think about how I am going to score.�
�No matter what I do, I can�t get my affair partner out of my mind and I feel I have to see him and see him a lot. Once I want to see him, it is like I am on autopilot and I just have to call. I�ll do anything to be with him.�
4)
Craving
�It�s like a physical drive or urge to be with her. I want it from the pit of my stomach; I get sweaty just thinking about it. At times, these urges come out of nowhere, or I get them when I meet my using buddies (left in because it FITS), pass the corner where my affair partner works or am feeling down.�
For the most part, those quotes edited for adultery have appeared from waywards on this board, or as quoted from their betrayed spouse.
To be coarse, we are all love addicts... we are all wired for affairs. In that is the brilliance of where this program draws that line between addictions, marriage, and adultery.
I grew up around 12-steppers. One thing that is common with recovering addicts is a phenomenon known as transferrence; addiction itself doesn't go away, the energy and obsession involved simply becomes focused on something else. Coffee. Cigarrettes. The Big Book. The Program.
Growing up around The Program, there was a lot of bustle; dances, river floats, campouts, daytrips. Meetings, of course.
People who wished to be free of their substance threw themselves into these things.
What if... what if they focused that kind of attention on their marriages? What if they gave their spouse that kind of time and attention?
Well, those questions are answered right here, aren't they?
If we are all addicted to having our emotional needs met, why not do it in the healthiest way possible?
Thought I bump this for the newly betrayed. Affairs are like addictions.