About a week ago I found out my wife has been cheating on me. I've had my suspicions for a few weeks now. She has come clean with me on the details. I feel she is still holding some information back. Now she wants to have a divorce. We have been married for 13 years and dated a few years prior to marriage. We have 2 children under the age of 12. I still have feelings for her. I can not forgive her yet unless I see some major changes. I want us to give a real effort to work things out before we make the decision final.

Like many marriages we've had some ups and downs. However most our friends would have felt we had a "perfect" marriage. I know I have not always been the perfect husband. And she has not always been the perfect wife. Prior to this we always worked things out, but it was always for the short term. I'm hoping the exposure will help us understand truly what we have, and what we need to change to keep it if we don't end up in divorce.

Her physical and emotional affair is with a co-worker. I can no longer stand the suffering while she continues to have an emotional affair with him. Her happiness is coming at my expense. Reading the threads here have convinced me that I will need to expose this to her co-workers. My wife has no intension of ending her relationship. I feel that I need to stand up for myself and tell her new boyfriend that "They are destroying my family and my marriage, and it's not right and it's not OK". I know I cant make them stop, and I cant make my wife choose me. However I feel if I don't do this it will eat away at me for a long time, possibly forever. I have already exposed this to part of her family at her suggestion prior to coming here so I can have someone to talk to. I don't know if the exposure to her co-workers will help end it, however I feel I will be better off knowing I did what I can and am standing up for myself.

I'm putting my plan together for exposure for what I'm learning from here. I don't have a voice confession of her cheating. However I do have messages from her that state it. So far we have been very calm in discussing everything because I have chosen not to lose my control. If this turns out to be a divorce I plan on gaining as much custody of my children as I can. I'm guessing once I expose her I will see a whole new person from her, as she often screams and yell when upset.

We live in California. I know snooping is not legal here so I have no intensions of snooping through her computer and phone to gain additional evidence. We are also a no fault state, so even any hard evidence I have would be useless.

I thank all the people who have posted their stories here. It gives me the courage I need to follow through the plan.

FFL,

You wroteWe live in California. I know snooping is not legal here so I have no intensions of snooping through her computer and phone to gain additional evidence. We are also a no fault state, so even any hard evidence I have would be useless.

You need this intelligence even if you never use it for anything other than to keep it private to yourself as it will help you gain an upper hand.

Very very rarely does an OM want to take the witness stand and create a public record of his character.

Is the OM married and have you gathered all of the OM family, work, social and church contacts? Exposing the OM will cause him to drop your WW as it will make her too much trouble for him.

Do not tell anyone, especially your WW that you are going to expose, do it suddenly and completely without warnings or threats. If your WW or the OM get wind of your plans they will paint you as a crazy, do not let them get in the first shot.

God Bless
Gamma

FFL, I would use a more strategic approach in your exposures and follow the template in my exposure thread. I would particularly focus on exposing to your wife's family and the OM's family. If the OM has a facebook page you should expose to his facebook contacts.

Any children aged 4 and up should be informed.

Hard evidence is not useless in the least. It helps you fight against the affair.

Have you read this? SAA-Start Here First

FFL,


No, it was not useless. It was far more valuable to me than I could ever express. To hear the actual conversations between them, their plans, their opinions about me, our marriage, their justifications, etc assured me I was not crazy. I was not paranoid nor was I overreacting. It told me when he was lying and what was the real truth. And those assurances were worth any risk. Keep in mind there is no risk if you never divulge HOW you acquired the information. I knew it could not be used in court but saving my sanity was worth it.

I've come to the realization that she can never change her ways to be good for me in having a healthy marriage. She has agreed to give me majority custody of the kids. Likely much more than a court would award. We are still in talks on how to split the care costs and everything we built together.

I realize I will never have a good marriage with her and want to move on with my life. I have been thinking about this divorce for over a year. At this point it seems like I have lots to loose by exposing. She knows she has wronged me and willing to do what she can to try and right things with me. I don't feel there can ever be a right. But the biggest concern of mine is the kids.

It appears to be I have nothing to gain by exposing. Am I being realistic?

The OM is not married. I have looked at the exposure templates and prepared them. However at this point if you see my last post I think it may be best to let it go.

Yes thanks

Is this what you really want? A divorce?

What about the OM being around your children? How are you protecting them?

The OM will not be around my children. The terms will be me having the children 80-90% of the time. My wife does not want a long term relationship with him. And I don't think he wants on with her either. It's a fling for her until she gets bored of it and moves on to her next. While she was with OM, she had also had a one night stand at a bar. I believe both me and OM knows that. She's not looking to settle down. She wants freedom to go play. Like a teenager that has discovered boys.

She will see the children every other weekend, then bring them back to my home. We agree she will not be introducing OM to the children unless some day she decides to grow up. We both want what's best for the children, and that is why she is agreeing to the custody agreement. I expect that we will have all this documented and agreed upon in our divorce filing. She will have all the nights and every weekend to go and fulfill her fantasies without the children around. I will be in good communications with the children to ensure she does not stray from our agreement.

Ideally I don't want a divorce. I want a wife that will change her ways and work with me to build a good marriage. During our time together we built many things, but failed to build a great foundation. She was really never up for the commitment. However the stars aligned for us to be together for a long time. However I know she is not willing to accomplish this. So I think it's best for us to divorce and me finding someone that is much more compatible with me. Many of her qualities I found attractive to me are now biting me in the butt.

I tried to change her for nearly 2 decades. I've come to the realization that I can not do that. Nor can I show her that she would like to choose that.

If it is your decision to go with divorce, then make sure your custody agreement is iron clad. You should have full custody with her having visitation...or at least full physical custody. You should also have a provision in there for no overnights with a man present and anything else you need in there such as child support, etc.

If your WW balks at such things you will know very quickly that she is FOS...which will be no surprise either.

Thank you Black Raven. Those are very good points. It's good to see that to make sure I remember to have lots of details explicitly listed out.

You should still expose though. Since your WW claims OM is just a fling and that she wants a divorce, you should let your families and children know so they know. If this is the life she wants then there is no reason to hide it. And since she claims you will have the children 90% of the time, the sooner that is established the better.

Are you aware of how disrespectful this sounds? You are going to need to learn how to avoid such love busters or you will find that no woman is ever compatible with you.

I didn't realize this sounds disrespectful. There is a lot of detail I have not gotten into and will not in this forum. The things I want her to change would help us because they are love busters.

She's being extremely rude and disrespectful to me. Our councilor has also observed this. She is continuing to be disrespectful to me. One evening she even asked me if it would be okay if I stay home and she goes over to her friend and stay over night. She is totally set in her way and feels no remorse for what she did. In fact she has told me that if she had an option to go back and do it all over should would not have changed a thing about cheating on me.

I just feel I've put up with the emotional abuse enough and it's time to move on. I'm very glad I found this forum and there's lots here that I will want to apply to my future relationships so I can be successful.

Maybe it's easier for others to think about rebuilding a marriage when their significant other is constantly flaunting their new relationships in front of them. But I can't take it anymore and need to remove myself from this bad and unhealthy environment.

Thanks, I do plan on still exposing to the family. But not to her work.

You have everything to gain by exposing because it will help lift her fog. Keeping her secret fuels the fantasy of the affair and it also allows her to lie about you and blame you for the break up. There is absolutely no benefit to helping her hide the affair.

It is in your children's best interest and your wife's best interest foe you to expose because exposure is therapeutic. It is therapeutic whether or not you want to save the marriage.

Why not to her work?

Isn't the OM a co-worker? Why wouldn't you expose at her job?

Actually she has already told some of her family, and from as far as I can tell it's the truth. I'm just figuring the right way to tell my kids. Her family knows there's nothing they can do to change her mind. They also feel it's in my best interest to take the kids and move on. She does not blame me for the break up. It's pretty clear to her family. I don't feel she will try that.

Why don't I want to expose to her work? It would be a huge financial impact to me and the kids. Right now she's willing to work with me to make sure I can continue to provide a stable life to the kids. At least that part she's willing to work with. Also there are at least 2 OM that I know of. One is the co-worker who is a friend with benefits. He already knows she is going to continue having relations with random strangers and may make more FWB. The second OM was a random guy she met at a bar. I can tell she is really having a great time and enjoying herself. And she intends on doing much more. She has decided to stop telling me anymore, and I don't want to know anymore. I don't intend to spend my life tracking and following her. She is good looking enough that she gets hit on all the time. She will have no problems getting guys want no strings fun. So I feel exposing her at work has nothing to gain for me and everything to loose. If you have a different view please share it with me.

I do feel that I will want to push for a no contact with other while the children is with her to be specifically listed in the terms of the custody.

I'm planning out my plan B. I don't want to be around her anymore. I'm starting to fear that seeing her of thinking about her will give me a STD. I cant even bring myself to touch her anymore.

Thanks so far for all the additional brain storming.

I forgot to mention. The things I wanted my wife to change are the following.

Selfish Demands
Disrespectful Judgments
Angry Outbursts
Independent Behavior


As you mention, these are all LB. I don't feel we have any chance if she is not willing to change them.

All of that can be overcome. What can't be overcome is your choice to not expose. On that basis I agree you should just give up.

True Melody, I believed she could overcome those when I first started dating her and married her. I did see some small changes over the years which is why I kept trying. However she's recently had a total reversion, actually probably much worse than I feel she initially was.

I'm still not totally sure with my decision. I just don't have the confidence at this moment that exposing would make her want to change those LB.

I don't think you have experience saving marriages though, so you wouldn't be the best judge of what could or couldn't work. But that is fine. You are free to reject the advice.

If she is picking up random men from bars for sex then you should seek full custody with no visitation for her.
In her present state of mind, she may be willing to sign the kids over to you.
Have you considered seeking full custody?

It sounds like she will become a bar fly and spiral downward fast. You need to protect your kids from that kind of behavior.

Yes, I have considered and want full custody. However my understand is that is rarely granted from the courts, is that correct? She is not willing to give full custody, however she's willing to grant pretty close. During her weekends she will only be keeping the kids for the day and they will return to the house with me at night.

Yes, I want to limit their exposure to her as much as I can.

I'm trying to look into legal details on court decisions of custody and how much proof is needed.

I have not rejected the advice. I'm just trying to fully understand it.

You really really need to expose. It worked for my WW.

You are wasting your time. Speak to an attorney.

gmsisko1,

Thank you for your reassurance. I read your thread. I'm sorry you also have to be in a similar situation. I hope you my best wishes.

Melody, I've done lots of additional reading and understand that this is what I need to do. I've gotten all my letters prepared. I'm still tracking down a few more people to be ready for d day.

I do have a question maybe someone can help me with. In order for me to expose to work I will likely have to deliver the letters in person. As long as I'm calm and don't pose a threat would I have any issues? The wife may go into a rage, however I hope the company will do what they need to handle the situation.

I am setting some consultations to find an attorney in the event of worse case scenario.

Get that attorney lined up, in some states the judges are given wide latitude with custody, support payments, etc. So you shouldn't be relying on what you read, it is what you can prove in court.
Get a pitbull attorney!

A better way is to email the exposure letters or send them certified.

I realize traditionally that would be the best. However in my situation it might not work very well. I don't want to go over the details in public Melody. If you wish to private message me I would like to discuss the issue further and understand if I'm making the best decision.

I would send the letters by certified mail.
I cant think of any scenerio where you would need to personally deliver them

Also, post the OM on www.cheaterville.com

Jedi Knight. thanks I will post to cheterville on day of exposure. If you wish to contact me PM I would like to hear you thought after I explain my reason.

I did some additional checking and it looks like I might be able to ensure delivery if I send through USPS with Restricted Delivery. Does anyone know if they will validate identification with that option?

I would ask the Post Office that question.

Are you concerned about the letter being intercepted?
If so, are you in the USA? You can go to your State Secretary of State website and there should be a link for Business Filings. Click on that section and type in the name of the business; it should show you the officers of the company with mailing addresses. It should also show a "registered agent," and you can send the letter there also. The Registered Agent is often the corporate attorney.

Marriage Builders forum has disabled Private Messaging.

Yes, I have a high fear of interception. I guess the other option would to be sending to their residence.

Communicating on here is really helping me slow down and think things out in this time.

Okay, I began exposure yesterday. The OM's friends must be talking to him because he told my WW what I did.

And she's furious. Is pretty much text book. We are planning her moving out now. Hope the rest of the textbook is real.

FFL, please come back and keep us informed. What do you mean when you say you "planning her moving out?" I hope that you are not cooperating with such a scheme. Almost every WS threatens to leave when they have been exposed. But they don't leave.

Please come back here and update us.

That was what she was initially wanting. I was acknowledging her that I heard that. This morning she has calmed down a lot. I would her I want her to stay and we work things out. I told her I have a plan for us to get over this. I told her I have a plan so we can build a much better marriage. She is open to listening. I will continue plan A. I will need to get her to fully agree to stop the affair and work on a no contact letter with her. I'm hoping we don't need to move to plan B. She still might want some time and space to herself. But if it is truly herself then I can live with that.

When is it the right time to have the spouse start reading "Surviving An Affair?" Since part of plan A is not to tell WS about how the plan for exposure was derived. The book list exposure in there.

So she's still in contact with OM?

Where does she plan to go? Make sure you tell her if she leaves she will not be allowed to bring OM around the children.

Have you exposed to their jobs?

Did you expose at work?

I would be a broken record that she must leave this job in order for your marriage to recover.

If she wants some "time and space" to herself, I would clear out a corner of the garage for her. Moving out to get "time and space" is the code word for moving out to CARRY ON MY AFFAIR. I hope that you CANNOT live with that!!

Show her the book, Surviving an Affair, and tell her that your plan for recovery is in this book.

Yes she is still in contact with OM. I have not exposed to work yet. I will give them a chance to change their jobs. If the do not do that and stop contact. I will need to move to plan b I will expose to work. However that's going to cause huge problems for us as we will likely loose our house without WS income.

I decided not to expose to Job right now because in Dr. Harley's book there is mention that exposure is not recommended in certain situations.

"Economic considerations

A divorce, and even separation, can have dire economic consequences for a betrayed spouse. Many wives of cheating husbands that I've counseled are economically dependent on him. If she exposes the affair, she fears that he will leave her, creating financial hardship. So in those cases, before exposing the affair, I generally encourage her to plan for that possibility.

Women's shelters usually offer both legal and financial advice for women who find themselves dependent on irresponsible men. Temporary aid from government, religious, and other charitable agencies can provide a safety net for those women. While exposure usually causes the affair to end, these betrayed women can expose his affair with less fear when they know that separation will not leave them destitute.

When there is an affair in the workplace, my general advice is that the unfaithful spouse must quit the job and find another to avoid ever seeing or talking to the lover again. But while the affair is taking place and the unfaithful spouse is unwilling to resign, should a betrayed spouse expose the affair to the employer?

While I unhesitatingly recommend exposing the affair to friends, family, clergy, children and the lover's spouse, I'm not so quick to suggest exposing it to an employer. That's because such exposure could have unintended legal and economic consequences. For example, the affair might constitute grounds for a sexual harassment claim by the unfaithful spouse's lover. Or it might trigger the outright firing of the spouse, making it far more difficult for them to find another job.

So in those cases I usually advise the betrayed spouse to warn the unfaithful spouse he or she will expose the affair to the employer in a month if the unfaithful spouse is still working there, giving him or her time to make a graceful exit from the job to another. Even if a new job cannot be found in a month, I recommend waiting no longer to inform the employer, unless the unfaithful spouse has already resigned. "

So, TODAY you will give her 30 days to leave the job or you will expose to her workplace. If she does not give her notice by Monday and agree to leave, you should go ahead and expose NOW. The 30 day grace period is ONLY for those who are leaving their workplace gracefully.

And you should not even consider Plan B for quite some time.

And yes, workplace exposure *IS* recommended by Dr. Harley. Very much so. He just recommends a different procedure in certain situations.

I do realize that once she moves out the possibility we will get back together will drop significantly. If WS does move out and continue to see other people my possibility of reconciling with WS also drops significantly. If she does move out I would like her to stay with one of her siblings who are all in favor of us working things out and hopefully keep her in line.

Correct I will be making that clear with WS today. When do I consider Plan B if she is unwilling to stop seeing OM?

You have several months until that will happen. But I would get this job thing out of the way today. Start the clock on this today so she can give her notice today. If she won't do this, you should go ahead and expose now.

You are correct that your chances for reconciliation go down significantly if she moves out. My concern was that you might believe the nonsense about getting "time and space." It is a ploy used by way wards to get away from their spouse so they can carry on an affair.

Yes Melody I truly understand that. I also realize that when she is "alone" even if not seeing this OM she may start seeing OM(S) Not sure how to pluralize the abbreviation. Which is why I have a high feeling of confidence that once we separate we are heading down the fast track of divorce.

The other reason I am hesitant to expose to her work is that currently she is in agreement of me and the kids staying in the house and she will help financially with that, even after a divorce. I do know she cares about the kids enough that she would stick to that.

Disrepectful judgement... From Dr Harley's book

"A disrespectful judgment occurs whenever someone tries to impose a system of values and beliefs on someone else. When a husband tries to force his point of view on his wife, he�s just asking for trouble. When a wife assumes that her own views are right and her husband is woefully misguided�and tells him so�she enters a minefield."

If I want my wife to believe that a good marriage is just 2 people (Me and Her) and our kids. And following Dr. Harley's guide from his book. No OM and no OW are to be involved. If I need to make her believe that do I have a disrespectful judgment? Or do I have a hopeless situation?

The reason you should expose at work is it gives you the best shot of saving your marriage so you avoid all that. You are planning for divorce and we are planning for your marriage. She has to leave the job regardless. She is better off leaving in 30 days, than getting fired when they find out what she is doing at work, which they eventually will.

And no, she won't stick to any financial agreements during a divorce. I wish I had a dollar for every BS who told me their WS was going to be "amicable" and then was shocked when the WS wiped out the bank account, and filed for full custody and possession of the house. We have had wayward wives move BACK in the house, kick out the BH and move in their OM. So please don't make any plans based on the "promises" of a wayward.

Don't count on or believe any promises she makes because it won't happen that way. And keep in mind, many of these grand "promises" are made to keep you in check.


She does not care about your children right now. She is wrecking their family so she can carry on her affair.

You should view her as a falling down drunk who is high on alcohol. You can't make a falling down drunk believe anything. It is a waste of your time. The only thing you can do is make her affair as difficult as possible.

Stating what you believe or how something makes you feel is not a DJ(disrespectful judgement).

But lecturing or expecting her to feel the same way is a DJ.
Demanding that she believe the same as you is a SD (selfish demand).

That being said, Dr Harley says that it is fair/justified to demand that they stop seeing the affair partner.

Thank you guys for keeping me with the thoughts of exposure. That is making this affair much more difficult now. I know the OM is no longer in happy land.

I know to continue saving the marriage with WS I will need her to agree to end all communications with him, and have open and transparent honesty. However there's a high probability she will go back to having random hook ups. Even if I watch her every move. It would not be hard for her to have a quickie with a stranger if she wants. She would have to put more thought and effort into it. However if we are at that point I don't understand that I have a marriage left to save. If WS is not on board of my idea of marriage then can someone help me understand what I have to save?

I to want to plan for a save.

What do you mean by this? What has made you think she would pick up a random stranger to have sex? Is this something she has done in the past? Is this affair with her coworker her first affair?

This is not her first affair. If you refer to my post #2814121 - 08/09/14 you will see where I mentioned that during this affair with OM WS also had a one night stand. OM is okay with it, which is why I don't see them developing a long term relationship.

This is actually affair #2 and #3. #1 was a one time deal and stopped, at the time I did not know about this forum so I did not follow the guide.

I fear ending #2 starts #4, #5, and so on.....

One of the reasons for exposing to as many people as possible is so that there are more people to hold her (and the affair partner) accountable.

There is a world of difference between a spouse who falls into an affair out of ignorance and one who is actively seeking out affairs. Which category would you place your wife?

Hard to say, she did not active seek #1 and #2. I'm not sure if #3 was just a moment of opportunity. She tells me she does not actively seek them out. But guys do hit on her all the time and she's pretty flirty. Moments of opportunity can happen all the time. For example she could be waiting in line for fast food, and the guy sanding behind her or in front might start chatting. That can lead to an opportunity. I'm not saying she will actively go to a bar with the purpose to find a hook up, which I don't think she's ever done. How would you classify this?

So she doesn't know how to have boundaries around you?

Three affairs tells me she is actively looking for action and is advertising the fact that she is open for business. That is very, very different from what we typically see here. And let me explain how. Most people who have affairs are decent people who just have poor boundaries. They might become overly friendly with a friend and find themselves falling in love. The temptation just becomes too great. That is different from someone who is out trolling for action.

Prior to the cheating it was never a issue for her to chat. It was always just that. Now I start to see it as a problem. I'm not sure she has any boundaries. It normally does not happen much when I'm around. It also does not have to be a guy. She's naturally very chatty and friendly.

That why I wonder at times if I have a marriage that is savable.

Sorry I meant boundaries around men, but you obviously understood.

Have I linked the serial cheaters thread to you?

Here and listen to the clips towards the end. Tell us what you think.
Serial Cheaters

Is she IN LOVE with these affair partners?

Not #1 and #3. She is developing feelings for #2. #2 is the one I exposed.

Possible she might be a serial cheater. She does like the thrill of a new person. Basically she seems to have a addiction. I do realize we need to keep her away for an environment that promotes it.

That is very problematic because it is obvious she is just out looking for action. That is much harder to deal with. You really have to take steps to protect yourself and start thinking long term. Sure, someone like this can change, but it is not as simple as just busting up one affair because she is not addicted to one person. She just has a philosophy of life that is not conducive to marriage.

Well she has finally agreed to stop seeing OM. The affair was ended due to my demand. However I'm not sure if it was done to stop hurting me.

We started reading Surviving a Affair together.

I will go over the following with her

"Set her down and explain to her that you want to have a romantic, loving, SAFE marriage and that you won�t stay in a loveless marriage. Tell her you are willing to give her an opportunity to earn your forgiveness. In order for the marriage to recover, certain things have to happen. This is what it will take to keep you interested:

1. end all contact with the OM for life

2. no more nights apart or going out without each other - create a healthy, integrated lifestyle

3. complete transparency - cell phone passwords, etc

4. no more opposite sex friendships

5. complete honesty about her affair<s> � passing a polygraph

6. commit to the Marriage Builders program for recovery as outlined in the book Surviving an Affair. "

However because of the exposure she no longer trust me. She feel information that she gives me is being collected for evidence. I've tried explaining that I've already exposed and done with that. I want to see if we can start a recovery process. How long will it take for her to understand my need for exposure? When we get to that part in the book?

1, 2, 3, 4, and 6 will be tricky ones. However if WS can not agree to those I don't have anything to build a new marriage on, so I have not really lost anything.

As to her philosophy, you are right on. I tried to explain that early in my post, but was not able to put it as clearly as you defined Melody. I realize that if she does not change that philosophy then I don't have a basis to build a marriage on.

I realize you are all trying to help me save my marriage. However the facts show me that I might not have a marriage to save. Which is why I feel I need to also plan for separation and divorce. If we go that route I will be able to fully grieve and heal once we are finished with our marriage.

So she has no interest in making any changes in her life, so all steps 1 - 6 are out the door. Making plans for separation and divorce. We will be working with a mediator since we are currently in agreement of terms.

I know most of you here don't believe me that she will stick to it. But I don't have any other option. We could both lawyer up now but that would increase the cost of divorce drastically and would probably no longer be on speaking terms after that. And if she does not stick to our agreement then we can lawyer up at that point.

I think it's final. I don't have a marriage to save.

The exposure did work mostly well. OM snapped out of his dream and wanted out. Thanks everyone for keeping me on the ball.

Good and who all did you expose to?

MelodyLane, I saw in another post you mentioned this. "I had to learn right and wrong all on my own because he made me so morally confused. He taught me "whatever feels good, do it" a life wrecking philosophy.. Fortunately, I was able to overcome that inanity with my own intelligence."

May I ask what helped you understand that life wrecking philosophy and made you want to change? WW has the same philosophy and likely this is the reason we are having our problem. I know she fully understood and wanted to change then we have a chance. Is there anything I can do to help her?

I exposed to parents and families of all exposed parties. I've exposed to friends of OM.