Hi all. I am sad that I have to be here but it is what it is. I have read a lot on here and ready to start the exposure.

Here's a bit of background on my situation.
*married 8 years
*have two kids 4 yo and 1.5 yo
*on 9/18ish WH says he's unhappy with life and want to go to therapy, I am very supportive of this.
*9/30 he mentions out of the blue that he is unhappy with our marriage, I immediately get defensive and am not happy or in agreement.
*11/8 (after no change on his part in my opinion) he says he wants to separate to figure things out. I am not happy.
*during this week I start to really think about our marriage and realize that I agree 100% with what he has mentioned so far. I let him know I will fight for our marriage and we can make it right. He seems to agree and we start reading a few things about marriage together. I have some hope.(I asked him a couple of times if he cheated, since I feel like it was out of the blue, he says no)
*11/16 He confesses the affair with me. He also says he doesn't think he can be happy with me. He's felt something with her he never felt with me. He tells me that he called it off with her the day before.
*OW was a former coworker. I believe the EA was while they were working together, she left the beginning of October and that is when the PA started.
*I think he thinks that the affair was just the physical part not the emotional part before hand.
*He can't really say how long it has been going on. "just a couple of months"
*I decided to visit a friend 19 hours away for the Thanksgiving week.
*I've looked through phone records he is still having the affair even though he told me twice that contact hasn't been made by either of them.

So, I've done some digging and found both OW and OW BH on FB. And I have gathered a list of contacts.

Tomorrow I start the two day drive back home. So I won't have time to actually do any exposing. I have a plan to do that Monday.
I do feel as though he is addicted to this thing he has going on and I know he is not himself, not the man that I love anyway but I am still scared to actually go through with it!

Help! Thoughts! Advice!

Sorry you are here but welcome. Have you read the exposure 101 thread? Can you give us your list of exposure targets?

Great job w finding OW and her BH on FB.

Thank you.
Yes I have read it twice and I'm pretty sure I am on information overload!

My family, WH family, OW, OW BH. <-Neither of the friends list are available but I did find a list of friends that have 'liked' some of their things. I am pretty sure I know her maiden name and I know where she's from.

Is there anyway you could get the exposure done tonight before you make the trip home?

Yes, it could be possible.

What would be the reasoning?

I was thinking the same thing. Exposures are much more effective when done on the weekends because people are home then. They are much more impactful because folks have time to respond. Are you using the template letters in my epxosure thread? It is real important to ask people to use their influence to persuade the cheaters to end the affair.

MelodyLane, yes I understand the reasoning. I was wanting to go to bed early tonight but I could do it tomorrow. Yes, I had planned to use the templates on the exposure 101 thread. Was there a template for what to say to the OW BH?

I think it would be a great idea to do it tomorrow when you are hours away from your husband.

There is no template for the OW's BH, but you would want to call him and give him the facts of the affair and ask him to be your ally in killing the affair. Give him your H's cell # and give him all your contact information. He will be in shock when you tell him and will have follow up questions.

Thank you. So, I don't have his #. Just his FB. And I am not sure if he even checks it regularly. And I don't know how I would go about getting his number? I do know that he is a k9 cop with the local university.

Gotcha. You could try calling the university and getting ahold of him. You could also send him a PM, BUT you do risk his wife intercepting the message and responding back pretending to be him. When you PM him, ask him to call you. Say that you are the wife of XXX and that his wife is having an affair with your husband.

Have you exposed yet?

I just got to my hotel for the night. I will be doing it shortly.

He's mad I told his mom.

Good. His anger from exposure means you've hit a good target. Will his mom put pressure on him to end his affair?

Yes.

That's fantastic.

Have you read in the Exposure 101 thread on what to expect?

yes, thanks.

We just facetimed (so he could see/talk with the kids) and he was very upset. He said "you told my mom andmy little brother?" I said "yes". He said "why did you do that for" I said "I am not keeping this a secret and we need the supoort" He didn't say anything to that.

Good job, bellachaos!! Keep it up and don't stop until you are done. You are doing a fine job.

The BH of the OW responded to my FB message!
He said that it was the first he heard of it and that he wasn't surprised. The OW admitted it to him when he asked her about it. He gave me his cell to contact him. or said to message him.

Great news! Give him a call...

Well now WH is definitely pissed I told the BH of the OW.
He asked why I would do that. I said bc I'm not going to keep it a secret. He says do you not know the implications of that. I didn't answer just said I'm sorry you are upset. I said I need to go to bed, see ya tomorrow. He said "mhmmm we'll see".

How did he find out?



You are smart and savvy! Good answers. Great job tonight!!

I'm sure the OW told my WH.

Thank you, I'm not so sure I can keep it up when I am actually in front of him.

I am finding a lot of info from the BHOTOW (is that right?). How do I not run home to WH and tell him I know all this!???

Great job! Keep your head up, girl! You've got this!

Sweet!! That is exactly how you want it to happen.


You can tell him all this when you get the chance. What did the OWH [other woman's husband] tell you?

Wow I just found out the work trip he went on she tagged along!!! I'm so upset. How do I not let it "get to me"?? I'm not sure if I can keep going!

Also OW texted me saying it was wrong of me to inform her BH and to try and contact her family. That she is in a abusive controlling relationship and I wouldn't know what that is bc I have such an awesome caring husband that would never harm me. --- what do I say to that? Or do I not answer her?

No reason to answer her. No reason for you to justify anything to the OW.

There is also no reason to believe a liar and a cheater and that is what the OW is.

You are doing a great exposure. The results show it.

Agreed. Interacting with OW is a waste of time. Nice job in exposing to the husband. He can be a good ally in busting up the affair.

All waywards try to pull the abusive controlling relationship line. :eyeroll: In all likelihood, she's 100% full of it. Don't engage.

Thanks. I don't know what WH told his mom but she's not answering my calls/texts. Maybe she believes the abusive thing??

Just forward her text to her husband. ALL OW claim to be "abused."


Very sorry you have uncovered this but am relieved you got the truth.

Yep, genuinely abused women are SO likely to bump privates with other men on work trips. So likely to even GO on work trips. Good job controlling her OWH! Wow her husband must be so scary for her to act so controlled and be so restrained...



Not a great sign. She's figuring out who is the easiest side to back because she just wants her son to be 'happy' I.e. she's not very bothered about his morals. A good way to prise her out of cowards corner is for other exposure contacts to let her know what's expected of a normal, moral person.

You: "Hey do you know what's happened to WHmom? I expected an immediate call but she must be prostrate with grief and disappointment. Can you make sure she's OK? (And kick her up the bum).

To WH all you have to say is:"Your mom knows."

That's enough.

Did you contact the OWBH back and let him know what she is saying about him being abusive??

Good job on exposure and keep it up.

It doesn't matter if the OW is actually in an abusive relationship or not. She may very well be. But that is no excuse to go have an affair with your husband. That's a copout, even if it is the truth.

Thank you all!
Came home tonight and WH and I talked. He asked for a divorce. He thinks what "I did yesterday" was vindictive and a punishment to him. I assured him that was not the case. He's afraid I'll take the kids from him. I said I wouldn't do that. He still doesn't think he'll be happy with me. He said he wants to call some lawyers tomorrow. I asked him not to. He did say that OW ended it with him and wants nothing to do with him. I'm not sure I believe that. He is definitely pissed.

Now what???

Yes I think this is true. Though WH did tell me tonight that she yelled at him for 30 minutes and he's mad that I told her and he didn't.

Good. Exposure hit the spot. He may or may not follow thru with the divorce threat. He may just be trying to get you to leave the affair alone. You have taken control of the message and he doesn't like it. Now he can't introduce her to the family as the woman h s happened to meet 'after' his marriage to you 'just fell apart.'

Now- plan A. For 3 weeks, you are the best wife you can be while not supporting the affair. This is the time to address any complaints, always be good-looking and smelling, be fun and engaging company.

In 3 weeks, if he cannot prove the affair is over and he is willing to follow a program of recovery, you sever all contact using a Plan B letter. This is to protect you from the physical and emotional effects of his affair. All contact is thru an intermediary.

Many people go on Anti-depressants now to help that calm and focused.

A great plan A. Normal WH response to be mad. That shows how effective the exposure was. After an exposure it is usual for the WS to respond with I am through the marriage is over. Just talk for they are just responding to their ego being bruised and losing the upper hand. Though they rarely follow through.

Thank you apples. I will do my best.

I def feel like he's mad that he lost the upper hand.

Bella, you did a great job on your exposure. If there is any exposures left, please get that finished up today so you can move onto next steps.

The next step is to separate from him and go into Plan B. He has told you he will not work on the marriage, so you need to separate from him. You can start planning for the separation now and getting him to move out. You need to go into Plan B within 3 weeks and you must be separated to do so.

Have you actually verified she no longer works there? Why did she leave? And why did he tell you the PA started when she left? Was he her supervisor? Is that why he told you that story?

What would plan b entail. I have no where to go and I am not employed. What would separation involve?

No, I guess I have not 'verified'. He has told me and she told me 'nothing happened with WH until after I left (company) and he certainly wasn't the reason I left."

Yes he was her manager.

Call the front desk and ask to be put through to her.

There is a Plan B thread in the Notable Posts. There is also an Intermediary training thread. Do you have a friend who can maintain objectivity and only pass on messages regarding immediate finance and kid plans?

the 3-week time limit for moving to Plan B is very firm. So much so, I encourage you to schedule a lock-smith for December 21st today. You should also see an attorney this week and secure copies of all financial documents, including 401Ks, FSAs, etc.

Ok, thank you apples.

So for three weeks I will continue to avoid LB and fill any EN that is needed. AND while doing that I will talk to an attorney and make my plan B. Once 3 weeks is over and he hasn't agreed to work it out then change locks, etc.? Correct?

I will try and find a friend to be the IM.

Ok, this is why he told you the story about not having sex with her before she left. He made that up so he wouldn't get in more trouble. You need to call the company and ask for her. Does her husband agree that she has left?

I would say that December 21st is the maximum amount of time you should allow - but you could, and should, get him out earlier if you find the strain to be too much.

You have already been doing Plan A from the date of exposure, which I think you said was in October. Dr Harley does not put pressure on wives to do a stellar Plan A, because it is very hard of women's physical and emotional health. I've heard him say many times that if a wife has communicated the fact that she wants to give the marriage another chance, and she'll consider taking the husband back once he ends his affair, then she has done all she can and could go to Plan B right away.

I think you only need to take as long as it takes for you to get Plan B arrangements (such as finances, and an IM) in place.

Do Plan A for a further 3 weeks if you can - but go to Plan B earlier if you find Plan A too much of a strain, and you are ready for Plan B.

NO. Ask him TODAY to move out. Tell him that his affair is so painful that you cannot continue to live with him given that he will not work on the marriage. Ask him to move out. NOW. Tell him you expect him to continue to support you.

Once he is moved out, then you go to Plan B. But you cannot go to Plan B if he still lives there.

You should also have a plan in place in case he refuses to leave. You can either get him out legally or move somewhere yourself. However, he cannot just stop supporting you.

Bella, for the sake of clarity, you don't wait to separate if a WS has clearly told you he won't work on the marriage. You do go through 3 weeks of Plan A before Plan B. But in order to go into Plan B, you have to separate FIRST. Since he has told you he won't work on the marriage, then you need to move forward and prepare for separation followed by a dark Plan B.

Bingo!

Thank you for the clarification everyone! I will try and get my arrangements made asap.

He confessed the affair on 11/16. I exposed 11/28.

Okay - I got that wrong. However, that is still two weeks today, so go to Plan B as soon you've got everything set up.

Can you please answer this?

Have you talked to her OWBH to confirm she quit?

Also, here How to Plan B Correctly

I'm sorry. Yes I told him what she said.

Yes OWBH did say she had left.

I did read that link thank you. It is very helpful.

Alright I am trying to get a plan B together. I know that I need to get this done anyway.

BUT last night WH sent me an email that I am not sure how to take.

Here are a few of his thoughts summarized.

1. He was and still upset that I exposed Saturday. He doesn't understand how I would do that. I took away his opportunity to reach out to his support system. "Now, all that they know is that I cheated on you. While that�s not inaccurate, there�s a lot more to the story than that."

2. He's trying to believe I had good intentions by telling her family.

3."I know that it�s backwards and twisted and it doesn�t make sense, but [exposure] put a nail in my relationship with her, likely forever. I know you�re fighting for us, and our marriage, and our kids. I know that. But, part of me will always be upset about this. "

4. He's read a lot about divorce during the holidays and he doesn't want to put us or our family through that right now. He's willing to wait until after to continue discussion of it. But he says we need to agree on some things first: a)stop telling people in our circle of friends, his circle of friends. b) he's working on belieiving that I am not punishing him. c) he will take the next few weeks to "actively considering and making sure this is the step I want to take.", " I don�t want my anger and disappointment over this weekend to make that decision for me. "
d) He says that I need to take emotional and mental steps to accept that divorce is a viable option. and then to take care that we continue as people who care for each other for the kids, he doesn't want to lose them.
5. "I am not, and will continue to not be, in contact with her. I�m dealing with that on my own."
6. "I�m done lying. I don�t want to do it anymore. I won�t go through and rehash the details of what she and I have done. If there are things you want to know because they will help you get over it or understand, I will share that with you. But, it won�t be details of when, where, how, etc. "

He ended his letter with some very loving comments about us. "Unfortunately, we have grown apart � and in a pretty severe way." ... " I fell in love with her. And in that, I found a level of happiness, satisfaction, and love that in a lot of ways, I�ve never had before. " -- which is what he's struggling with.
He ended with this " I admire how strong you�ve been � and even though I�m still pissed about what you did � I respect you fighting for us"

I have yet to actually talk face to face with him about this. I have no idea how to take what he wrote. I feel like I need to let it sit for a minute?

Thank you for reading, I know it was a tad long but I feel like it needed to be shared.

Point 1: It does not matter whether he understands. Yo do not need to explain or justify this to him. You know that it was the right thing to do, and that is all that matters. it is likely that he will never understand. Ignore his attempts to get you to explain - which are really attempts to get you to see that you were wrong - and do not discuss this with him. If he brings it up face to face, tell him you are sorry he was upset, and say no more. Do not apologise for anything else. DO NOT DISCUSS.

2. Irrelevant. As above, there is nothing to discuss. Close the topic of what he is trying to believe and move on.

3.This is some of the most illogical babble that I have ever heard. Do not discuss.

4. What he is willing to do, short of ending his affair and committing to recovery, is irrelevant. Ignore a, b, c and d, DO NOT DISCUSS, and do what you've been told to do here, with regard to the divorce.

5. Ignore this, unless he is asking to restore the marriage and is willing to prove NC.

6. Do not ask him for any more details, until the day he goes to you on bended knees, and you need more details in order to make a decision. If it isn't for that reason, then details will only hurt you, make you cry, and make you look pathetic to him. Move on.

7. Ignore the rest of the email. Do not discuss a word that he has said in the entire thing. If he starts to talk about it, tell him that you will only talk when he has ended the affair and is ready to ask about rebuilding, including NC. You will not talk about anything else.

He is trying to degrade and humiliate you, and you must not let that happen, even a tiny bit.

If he tries to talk to you about any of this utter crap, WALK AWAY.

Sugarcane is exactly right. I will add this important lesson: do not try to reason with a falling down drunk. WE don't care if he understands, we don't care how "upset" he is. THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS IS THAT HE FOLLOWS YOUR CONDITIONS OR HE HAS TO MOVE OUT. The only concern here is your agenda, NOT HIS.

And you very much should separate from him NOW unless he agrees to a) work on repairing on the marriage and b) agrees to affair proof your marriage. There is no way in hell you should hang around "for the holidays" while he is planning to divorce you and take his affair deeper underground. Doing so will wreck your health and make it less likely your marriage will be saved. Hanging around makes you LESS attractive and hurts the future of your marriage.

Send him a letter back and tell him this:

Dear John, thank you for your letter. As you can imagine I was devastated to discover that you were still in touch with your affair partner, Sallyslut. This has been the most painful thing I have endured in my life.

Unless you are willing to meet certain conditions to protect me from your affair and commit 100% to repairing our marriage, I would ask that we separate now. I can't spend the holidays with you under any other conditions because it is too painful. I would ask that you move out now. The only way I would be willing to stay together is if you go through a marriage recovery plan with me and meet every condition on this checklist.

Are you still out of town? Is that why you have not seen him?

Read: I want you to stop interfering with my affair. I'm not in control; everyone knows the truth, not he lies I planed to tell about you. I hate not being in control.

]
This is pure insane fogbabble. It is an attempt to blackmail you into silence. He hopes to dangle the divorce card over your head to keep you in your place.

Your response will take that weapon away from him and signal to him that he is no longer in control. He still believes he is in control.

]
Did you leave some unfinished exposures? Your exposure has been extremely impactful and effective. He is worried that you will tell his friends. Are there people you did not tell? If so, I would get that finished and expose to them right away.

Bella, you are doing a fantastic job. I want you to know that your situation is very hopeful if you can stick to this plan. Right now, you need to turn the tables and show him that you will no longer be at his mercy. That will shock him awake. The more reality you can inject into his fogged out life, the better.

To give you an ide, because al waywards say stupid crap...

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2827381&page=1

No I am at home. Last night I had dinner with friends. He was home with the kids. He was asleep when I got home.

Keep it up! Don't stop!

Don't worry about what he believes. He can believe it's punishment if he wants or whatever. Don't discuss it with him, don't debate him, don't try to persuade him otherwise.

By the time you are finished, it will be him who is scared of a divorce.

Yes, I definitely agree with the bolded part.

Is there a way I can make this text flash to make it more noticeable? Because it needs to be seen....

There is somebody else that you have not told, that he is very scared you are going to tell.

Think hard and figure out who those people are and TELL THEM.

You are in the process of ruining the affair - his addiction.

No I don't think so. I think I told everyone of our close friends/family.


Thank you for these words. I know the man I love is in there somewhere but this is hard.

Bella, we are trying very hard to help you save your marriage, so it is real important that you respond to the suggestions so we know what you are thinking. Are you reading the posts? Do you have questions or concerns? I can imagine you are scared to death right now and it is very important that you post to us so we can guide you out of the fog.

OMG, some of this is comical. So predictable too. Thanks for sharing.

Thank you. I will go through our contacts again and see if I left anyone out. We really don't have that much family. I will do that right now.

I hope so.

Ok I will send him a letter back that says these things.

He is running scared. He is worried sick that you are going to tell somebody else...

Tell the world. Take out a billboard. Get it to all of his facebook contacts, all of OW's facebook contacts. Everybody at their work especially management and HR (if this is a workplace affair). Everybody in their families. If there's somebody in their families you haven't found yet, find them. Everybody in their church(es), if any. Your children, if any.

Get the word out - spread the great news about the relationship he loves so much. Everybody should know!

Markos is exactly right. Right now he thinks he can keep you on the sidelines as an "option" while he stays home for the holidays and pursues his affair while dangling the divorce card over your head to keep you quiet. I assure you his affair is not over.. Going along with his plan makes you the LESS ATTRACTIVE option while wrecking your health.

The plan we are proposing makes you more attractive while protecting your health. It also will go a long way in destroying his fantasy if he has to move out to pursue an affair that makes no sense. The OW is not going to leave her husband for some creepy married man. He will be spending his Christmas all alone as a single man. That will be a huge wake up call for him.

CRY ME A RIVER!

Be sure to reach the rest of his support system.

I am very grateful for everyone's advice it really is helping me immensely!

I am very scared about everything! I am scared he will get mad and cut me (us) off financially. I am scared that if we do get to recovery that I won't be able to actually recover and this will be all for nothing. This just all is a lot to take on!

Good girl!!

And if he responds back that he won't comply, blah, blah, blah, then pack his bags and have them ready when he gets home. Let him see that you are absolutely serious.

I would also tell your 4 yr old about his affair today. He/she knows something is very wrong and needs to know the facts. If your husband is willing to wreck the family over his sleazy affair, the child should be informed.

I will go through WH facebook contacts. OW took down her FB.

The affair did start when they were working together. Though she has left the company and works elsewhere. They both claim that since the PA didn't start till she left 'nothing' happened while she was working there. ::insert eyeroll::

This scares me so much!

This is it. This is the number one person you tell.

"Daddy has a girlfriend besides Mommy. This hurts Mommy very much and is making her sick. When you get married you promise not to have any other boyfriends or girlfriends. Daddy is not keeping his promise to Mommy and it is hurting her terribly. The girlfriend is ---. Here is her picture."

That's all there is to it.

I walked in on my own mother's affair. I promise you that knowing about the affair will not hurt your child. I live an extremely happy and well adjusted life today with a wonderful marriage and lots of happy and well adjusted children. What will hurt your child is not knowing the truth.

We will help you learn how to get the courts to force him to continue to support you.


We will help you learn what he has to do in order for you to be able to recover.

For now, go tell your child about your husband's affair.

Believe me, if he cut you off a judge would tear him up. You need to set aside some money just in case. You can tell him very calmly that oyu expect him to continue to support his family while you are separated. Once you get him out, you might want to hire an attorney to make sure he continues to support you. But a husband cannot just stop supporting his family.

Ok thanks.

So to wrap my head around everything:

Step 1: Tell DD.
Step 2: Write him a letter ala what MelodyLane had written. Give it to him today?

Yes.

Then keep exposing.

You got it!! And don't get into any debates with him. Just tell him how it is. You need to understand that you are dealing with an irrational, fogged out, addict. He is the equivalent of a falling down drunk. Don't debate, don't try to reason with him, just be a broken record and tell him he needs to move out unless he can agree to your conditions TODAY. [none of this "I will need to think about it"]

I would email him your letter right away.

WOOHOO!!!!!


He should be a lot more worried about whether or not YOU will always be upset.

But don't discuss it with him. Tell your child, and give him that letter MelodyLane suggested and let him start realizing how life is going to be when he has to actually straighten up if he wants a chance of keeping you.

What is "technical accountability"??

Any use of technology to hold you accountable. Not being upset if you discover your spouse has slipped a GPS tracker on your car or spy software on your phone is an example.

That means he must give you open and free access to all of his phones, voicemails, email accounts. He should first off change any contact avenues the OW had and then give you passwords for his phone, email, etc. The OW should not be able to contact him.

How close does the OW live to you?

Ok thanks for the clarification.

She lives maybe 15 minutes away.

You are probably going to need to move a few hours away to really survive this, assuming he agrees to the conditions.

You need to expose thto his work. He is probably scared because he could lose his job. You need to write letter to his immediate supervisor, the director of HR mad the VP of his department or the owner of the company.

Have you told your DD yet?

Has the affair been exposed to workplace and his supervisor yet?

Yes, I am aware of this.

Not yet.


No this is what I am afraid to do. It will make him so angry. Plus he is adamant that nothing 'happened' while she was at his company.

Both of these need to happen as soon as possible, and as we've already mentioned, ignore his emotional response. We already know what it will be. The angrier he is, the closer you are to the mark. This is what is going to destroy the affair for good and make him fear you divorcing him instead of the other way around.

Go tell your daughter, then contact his supervisor.

I just told my DD. I am not sure she 'gets' it.

What did you tell her?

Did you explain the meaning of affair to her? When I was age 4, my serial cheater father took me to meet his OW. Around that time, I witnessed my mother sobbing in her bedroom. This all seemed very wrong to me but because no one validated that instinct of right and wrong I concluded the problem was with me.

Your daughter knows something is wrong, so it is real important that you explain this clearly and tell her how very hurt you are by her father's affair with a married woman. She is old enough to understand that married people should not be dating.

Alright my letter to WH is drafted and I am ready to send.
Questions:

What if he says no he can't do x,y,z but can do a,b?
What if he says fine, I'll file for divorce tomorrow?
Those are to be expected right?

Yes. Stand your ground. Your marriage can't survive if he doesn't do everything on that list. If you try to stay around without those conditions being met you are going to be a wreck and your health and your daughter will suffer.

Ok, thank you.

Say "thank you for your response. Since you don't agree, I am asking respectfully that you move out this week. "

Then stand your ground. Do not vacillate on one single thing. These conditions are absolyutely non negotiable because that is what it will take to save your marriage and protect you from his affair.


"Thank you for your response. I agree this will lead to divorce if you won't commit to the marriage. Since you are filing for divorce, I respectfully request that you move out this week."

See, he won't believe you really mean it at first. This is why it is critical that you stand your ground and not allow him to bully you into submission. You are dealing with a fogged out, addict who DOES NOT HAVE YOUR BEST INTEREST AT HEART.

Be a broken record if he tries to debate you. Say:

"this situation has been so painful for me that I am not willing to continue on this basis. If you feel you can't meet these conditions, I would like to separate now."

What specifically did you tell your daughter?

Don't negotiate with him. you have heard the term "don't negotiate with a terrorist?" That applies here. As a fogged out wayward, his plan is only to serve his selfish interests at your expense. It is up to you to protect yourself and your children.

If he will not do every single thing you ask, then he is not serious about your marriage and as such, is not a safe person.

Sort of what was suggested by Melody(?) that Daddy has a girlfriend that isn't mommy. It makes mommy sad and hurt.

That is perfect. Hopefully you told her the OW's name and perhaps showed her a picture. She needs to know who the enemy is and needs to feel free to inform you if she sees this skank.

Ok I will do that.

Bella, do you have a friend you could take with you to confront the OW? If not, I would give her a call and tell her there is no future in her affair with your husband because she will be eternally hated by your inlaws and your children because of her part in breaking up their family. Let her know that if this does go to divorce, you will file on grounds of adultery and will drag her into court to give sworn testimony about her affair.

Yes I could.

Also in regards to the workplace exposure. What exactly would I say, I feel the example letter doesn't really pertain to this situation.

Also another question.

If/When he moves out then do I write a Plan B letter and finalize those steps?

"We've been lying our hats off to each other and everyone else while blowing up each other's ridiculous egos to pass the time. When people can see me doing this with a skanko from work, I feel truly silly and like a grub: you ruined my appetite for stolen cake mommy.

Now can you sit over there while I go eeny meeny no between you and the mistress?"

Pffffft!


Can I give you a big hand for your stupendous and brave exposure? Lovely calm responses to his nonsense too. What *you* did indeed!



It certainly does. Don't breathe their hookah smoke about 'nothing happening', it did, still is, and his employers are now liable for sexual harassment claims. You could add he was her manager. Might also be worth saying she left the firm hastily recently. They will see in a heartbeat that she left the company at his urging so as to avoid detection, for sexual reasons.

But really the letter prompts them to do their own investigation. His fear of this target is great news. That means it's your bullseye. He's guilty as sin and it probably remains the main place he conducts his affair.






Don't send your letter until you have closed off all avenues like changed your number, email, locks, protected finances and have an IM etc. Once he gets that letter it's very important he looks up and sees a closed door and no way to reach you.

Shortly the horror of exposure will wear off and he will think 'at least I've still got both!' as he prepares to watch you fight for him. (He actually said so too, rare moment of truth)

You instead have this valuable Plan B citadel to step off stage left into. He cannot reach you for drama, negotiations, blame, or any 'woe is me' handwringing whatsoever.

He can reach you through your IM when it's ENDED and every condition is agreed to. Any time he gets serious.

Don't send the letter while you can still be reached, but get everything done asap.

Yes, when he moves out you would write the Plan B letter. We will help you with those steps.

The workplace letter should go something like this, sent to the director of HR, a key VP and both of their supervisors.

To Whom It May Concern:

This letter is to bring a matter to your attention that may be a violation of your Company's Code of Conduct and/or other policies, procedures and business ethics.

WS and OW are involved in an extramarital affair that took place primarily, in the workplace. I was told that Sally Slut has since left your employ but felt it was critical you were informed of the affair. Aside from the potential sexual harassment claims this situation presents, it also involved the inappropriate use of company resources and assets. WS and OW used company time and company resources to further their affair. If you check the call histories on their office and cell phones along with their workstation computers, you will find the two of them were spending an inordinate amount of what should be productive work time to further their sexual relationship.

WS has admitted his affair to me and SallySlut's husband has been informed.

If you have any questions, please call me at xxx-xxxx. Otherwise, I will anticipate a response from you once you have investigated these concerns and taken appropriate corrective action.

Regards,
_________________________

So after putting the kids to bed. We talked. He definitely said he couldn't do the things I asked. He asked if that is what I wanted (him moving out) and I said yes. He asked me to look him in the eye and say it. I did. He asked me a couple of times. I swear he was waiting for me to back out or change my mind or ask him to stay. Then he asked if I wanted him gone tonight or if he could take some time to figure out where he was going to go. I said I prefer tonight. Then he got his stuff and left.

You did the right thing.

How are you?

You did a great job. I am so very proud of you for standing firm. I know how hard that was. I can tell he did not believe you meant it.

He really thought that he could set the conditions and is probably shocked that you won't allow him to do that. I predict he may eventually agree to your conditions if you continue to stand firm.

You are smart and savvy. That is exactly what he was doing.

I woudl strongly suggest you change the locks tomorrow. Do you know how to do this? It is really very easy. The reason is because when he sees that you are dead serious, he will very probably try to force his way back in your house. You don't want that to happen.

You can go to Lowes and buy new locks. They are not hard to install.

Thank you Melody and Brain. I am a mess. I am unsure if I did the right thing and I keep going back and forth in my mind. I need to keep thinking that this will all be for something.

One more question regarding this. If I send this and he gets fired do I have an repercussions for being 'the one who told' his bosses and got him fired? -if that ends up being the case?

Definitely Not!!!

You are not the one who pursued a job endangering workplace affair.

You have his admission and are only telling the truth to protect your Family.

LTL

There would be no legal repercussions if that is what you mean. You can't get into trouble for telling the truth.

Ok, thank you LTL!

If you haven't gotten Surviving an Affair yet, now is a great time to download and start reading. Also, make plans for taking care of yourself. Plan B is about taking care of you.

It came today!

He asked you whether he could continue cheating on you from the comfort of your home. That will tear your attractiveness, not to mention sanity, down piece by piece until he goes to the other woman whose beauty and energy thrives on the same misery which destroys yours.

Was saying no to that the wrong thing?

It was only wrong it you want a) continued infidelity and b) a nervous breakdown. It happens. A lot.

The primary goal is not to get him back at all costs but to prevent your experiencing this horror ever again. If he can't assure that; he's gone.

If he wants to come home to cheat, you're better off without him. However I agree that his wavering is a hopeful sign. She's clearly not enough for him full time and their relationship will not be able to survive the fall out of exposure.

But no matter what, you need to be safely away from this abuse and the toll their cruelty is taking on you.

Thank you indiegirl for your words. I appreciate it.

The truth is the truth. It's the same as telling a friend their accountant is defrauding them. They lost the job through dishonesty, not because someone 'told' the true version.

Be prepared - your husband will be enraged enough to decide on the spot that 'there must be a law against this'. They usually threaten legal action, which is very funny.

I was threatened with legal action over exposure even though I am a trained journalist and I know defamation laws inside and out. They just forget that you know what you are doing and go ape. It's funny in retrospect.

Thank you. I sent the letter this morning. His immediate supervisor seems to be OOO. So we'll see what happens.

Just stay strong and remember all the steps you are doing right now even though they are tough is to save your marriage and family........just keep believing your doing what will give you the best chance, you have some great friends helping you here.....just stay calm and confident....fight for what is yours......

Thank you.

So now I move to plan B correct?

I have an email out to an intermediary. And I just called to get the locks rekeyed. They will be here at noon today.

Way to go! As soon as you have the intermediary set up, send the letter. Who is your IM? Did you send them the IM Training thread?

You also sent it to the director of HR and a key VP, right?

yes

Ok.

Yes I copy and pasted it.

You have a week or so before you have to go into a dark Plan B. That will give you time to prepare. In the meantime, you can work on your letter, set up an intermediary, etc. Have you read these threads? here

and here

It will be interesting to see his next move. I think you shocked him last night when you utterly neutralized any leverage he thought he had. You demolished his weapons when you asked him to leave. He will be rethinking his strategy now that he is faced with the reality of being single and spending Christmas alone.

He is probably hoping you will call him and beg him to come home. When you don't do that, he may contact you with a proposal of his terms hoping to negotiate his way back. Something to the effect of "I may consider working on our marriage but I can't do that unless we are together. We should be together for Christmas for the holidays, blah, blah, blah..."

Just expect him to try to get you to change your conditions to accommodate him and his affair.

You can start working out how your Plan B will work. For example, you will want to send a visitation calendar so he can visit with the kids. He shouldn't be allowed inside the house so you will have to figure out a way for him to pick up the kids. Some ways this can be done is he would pick them up at a neighbors or IM's house. This needs to be done in a way that you don't see each other. They are little so don't worry about a 50/50 split. Maybe something like Wednesday night from 6 to 8 and Saturday afternoons from 1 to 5.

Do you have some ideas on that?

You will also add a line in your Plan B letter that says something to the effect of:

I expect that you will continue to deposit your check in our bank account so the children and I will have financial support.

I completely agree with everything that Indiegirl just said. Wavering is a hopeful sign. I can't tell you how many times my husband did that. Two years later we're traveling very steadily on the recovery train, but its only because of a hard exposure and sticking to my guns and only demanding the best from him. You're doing the things that have the absolute best chance of recovering your marriage, and you're doing them WELL! Keep your head up.

Thank you for sharing this. I needed to hear it.

Stand your ground.

And when it happens, remember that MelodyLane told you it would happen.

Yes, I have those thank you. I am working on my letter and I have my intermediaries coming to meet me tomorrow night.

I got a response on the work exposure:

"Thank you for your email. [Company] will address the issue you raised below through our normal business practices and procedures. In accordance with those practices, any actions taken with our employees are confidential. Therefore, we will not be able to follow up with you on those specifics."

That's good!!

How are you feeling? Did you give some thought to how you would handle child exchanges?

Feeling ok.

I have but not too much.

He left Tuesday night.

Wednesday(yesterday) morning he emails about calling the kids. I agree on time.

Last night he tries calling. I don't answer. He texts me "Can we talk when u can?". I don't answer that either.

He then emails me "I know you have a therapy appt tomorrow, can you drop off the kids at my work or I can be at the house at 3:30. You can take your time coming back home."

I wrote back that I had planned to take the kids to the drop in daycare.

He says "how about you don't and I can be there at 3:30."

I then proposed that I take them to his work or he can meet at an indoor playplace and hang out with them.

He responds "why are you so opposed for me seeing them at the house"

I respond "that sends mixed messages to all three of us"

He responds "1) I'll meet you at [indoor play place].

2) We need to talk tonight. Can you do that?"

All I say is "see you there at 3:30"

What do I say to the "we need to talk part"? I don't think we have anything to talk about. I am pretty sure he's only going to try and talk about visitation with the kids, especially for Christmas. And I don't feel like that needs to be discussed just yet.

You could listen and walk out if he wants to try negotiating out of your terms. If it is about visitation, you can tell him you will think about it, then attach a schedule to the Plan B letter. IIWY, I would continue to avoid having him in the house. If he needs his things, you can pack them and drop them off at his parents' place while he is at work.

For child exchanges, could you drop the kids off with a family member 30 minutes before pick-up and drop off the sme way?

PS what I said before is to emphasize that whether you talk to him is up to you. If you don't want to' don't. If you do, remember you can end the conversation at anytime by walking out. Public places are great for this because he would have to make a scene to stop you.

Ok. Thanks.

Ok. This is helpful. Thanks.

There's no need to talk to him and you don't have to prove that to him - just don't do it. Stand your ground.

It's just like MelodyLane said he is going to try to weasel his way around every condition you set. You don't want to talk to him so he is trying to badger you into talking to him. You don't want him at the house so is trying to badger you into inviting him to house.

You don't have to tell him why on anything. Let him wonder - it'll be good therapy for him.

Thank you Markos.

Essentially everything he says to you while still in contact will be geared towards his hope you will prop up a mock front while he continues getting side action. Side action is meaningless without main action.

This is why it's so important to put him aside so you don't hear all his currently dumb selfishness that will just revisit and haunt you later on during, and stalling, a recovery.

Some useful stock phrases for now:

"I would love family togetherness but it's not my call

It's too painful and heartbreaking to discuss right now.

I can't force your decision and don't wish to.

I do not wish to be badgered.

I love you too much to settle.

(After a particularly poignant appeal) Did you know polar bears are black if you shave them?"

But really, a level look and refusing to fill the silence would do much to unravel him. He only has one game plan and it was formed during the fog of an falsely ego boosting affair.

Plan: "I am clearly God's gift at the moment, so plan is I do nothing and let my mistress bid for attention when my wife is winning, and I'm sure my wife will play the same desperado game if she finds out too."

Back up plan in case of wife who isn't begging to be cheated on: "???!!!!!....(sound of tumbleweed)"

I would be real careful here. Like I said before, his next step will be to agree to a "few" of your conditions and then reject the others. I assure you he still believes he can control you.

Reply "with regards to?"

This is great indie, thanks!

So it was mostly about the kids. He wanted to make plans to see them this weekend. He mentioned how he was still trying to believe how I'm not trying to hurt him, even since I told his work. He also wanted to come by and get more of his stuff since he only took about 4 days worth of clothes. I kept telling him no I can send clothes to him but he was insistent. I said we can talk about it when he sees the kids Sunday. And then he wanted to chitchat and ask how I am doing and how my therapy session was today. I gave one word, ok, then said well ok bye.

Just reverse fog babble this by modelling what good behaviour looks like. He is being snarky about your intentions, so you be noble about his.

"Well speaking for myself, I know you are not intentionally hurtful. Even though this pain is hard to survive, I know you were not deliberately trying to hurt me. That is why I am so sure you can earn my forgiveness and the forgiveness of everyone else you have disappointed. I think you can show them something amazing by saving our marriage."

Or the old classic: "I am sorry your affair is so embarrassing to you. That must be really difficult." Head tilted to side sympathetically.





Yet another easily popped delusion in his plan.

Delusion:

"She is my wife and can never really leave me. We are bound together by all my stuff in MY house and by our children. I am not any more committed to my floozie than four days worth of clothes would suggest - but I am not worried about losing my wife for what is so obviously such a short term fling, and one that has been torpedoed at that.

"Whenever I come by my dear home base for clothes/to see the kids/celebrations of holidays/adoring looks from the wife who still loves moi-god's-gift/whenever I need a baloney sandwich - I will swing by unannounced and have my cake and eat it too!

"Every time I do I will make approaches to her about 'talking' - but this will really be abuse and blaming her for my affair and her need to cry out for help with it. I will be telling her I don't love her, often. If I wear her down sufficiently to compete for me I am back in business."

Reality:

Plan B letter telling him he collects DD from a friend's house and is on his own as regards activities with her/ repairing his relationship/ explaining himself.

Plan B instructions telling him where to go pick up EVERY ITEM he belongs which you have thoughtfully packed up for him. (Crash of reality hits him -It is no longer 'his' home, it is now your home).

If you wait for a wayward to pack himself up, you will be waiting a long time. This is a very typical aspect of their 'how long can I cake-eat?' plan. Simply have everything sent on to a friend/relative/storage facility with instructions of how he can go get it. Don't discuss this with him ahead of time, it is better that it comes with some Plan B shock and awe when he can't even reach you to complain.

This is all good info thanks!

I have gotten myself as ready as I'll ever be to Plan B. I have *some* money in my own bank account. The locks changed. And plan B letter almost finished. I plan to pack his things tonight and then give him the letter tomorrow or Sunday. (though I am hoping tomorrow).

He shouldn't be able to reach you when he gets the letter. Have you changed your contact details? Will he know how/when he will see the children?

You could say in the letter that he will be notified about child visitation arrangements in a few days and have your IM follow that up.

Bella, how will he get the letter? You don't want to give it to him personally because you don't want to be in a situaiton where he opens it and then debates it with you.

i would also make up a visitation schedule and plan and attach it. That needs to be included with the Plan B letter so there is not unnecessary communication after you go dark. For example, you can suggest he pick up the kids for visits on Wed evening from 6-8 and Saturdays [or Sundays] from XX-XX. Do you have a way he can pick up the kids without coming in the house and without seeing you? Can the exchange be at your IM's house? A neighbors house?

Another thing you must plan for is not allowing him to contact you. For exam,ple, you will want to block his emails and phone #. He should not be able to call or text you.

Also it is a good idea to contact the OW's husband and let him know your H is moving out. He needs to know this so he can watch his wife closely.

Plesae post your letter so we can give you feedback. Do you have the sample letter in SAA to use as a guide?

I haven't changed my phone number. How will he be able to Facetime with the kids? Should I say that that isn't allowed?


Yes, I will notify him of arrangements through the IM.

Yes, I have already made plans with my IM to have them give it to him.


Yes, I have made arrangements for child switching to happen at the IMs house.


I had planned to block him somehow.

Like I asked above, I am assuming he doesn't get to Facetime the kids?

Let him figure that out. In Plan B you don't expend effort to solve problems for him any more. If he wants to do that, he can figure out how to do it, but he can't do it with your phone any more because he can't get ahold of you.

Ok, thank you.

Bella, I would avoid facetiming at all cost. He will have visitation and he can see the kids that way. You don't EVEN want to be in a position where the kids are facetiming with him and you have to facilitate it and listen to him. That defeats the whole purpose of plan B.

Ok, good points.

Do you get the sense that he believes you are serious now? Or is he still waiting for you to call him up and beg him to come back?

I am not sure. But the night he left I did feel that he was waiting for me to change my mind.

Ok, I'll do that in a bit. I did use that sample letter as a guide.

What you are doing gives you the BEST CHANCE at saving your marriage. I want you to understand that is the goal here. Your husband's "plan" of hanging around for the holidays while he keeps his options open would have hurt your marriage terribly becaues his wayward mentality [and affair] would have become more entrenched while he destroyed your mental and physical health. The strategy is to give him a cold splash of reality, raise the bar of admittance for you and protect your health. That gives you the best chance.

Dear WH,

This is a difficult letter for me to write, one that I have been mentally working on for a bit now. I have written this letter with the true love that only a wife can have for a husband. Please read every word I have written, for it is from the heart.

I would like to acknowledge and apologize for my part in the demise of our marriage. I neglected your needs, and failed to give you what you needed many times. I'm sure this helped create a voice in our marriage that allowed your affair to happen. I have said this before, and I want to say it again: I want to do whatever I can to put our marriage back together in a mutually satisfying way. I feel that I have been learning ways to be the type of woman that I hope you would be proud to call your wife, as I have so many times felt pride in calling you my husband. I so want to be able to put the past behind us, and build a better life together for us and our children.

The eight years that we have been married and the two years before that that we were together were filled with an endless number of hugs, smiles, tears and laughs. I have loved you every minute of every day that we have spent together. We really have had some amazing moments together. ....[mushy memories]..... We have brought into the world two amazing children who are two of the most adorable and well-rounded children ever and we have started giving them the world that we both have always wanted to give our children. We have shared so many ups and downs.

The past three/four weeks have been the most difficult of time for me, the most emotionally traumatic in my life. We seemed to start recovery in the beginning, only to be told the next day that it was a sham. I am still feeling the hurt and pain of the lack of commitment to our marriage vows, �for better or worse, till death do us part and forsaking all others� We have somehow misplaced our foundation of trust, respect and intimacy, I agree. All of which can be built again, it won�t be easy, more so for me, but it can be done.

Lately I have been given a strength that I never knew I possessed. I have grown and matured more as a person than I have in my entire lifetime. Whereas recently I have endured the hurt and pain, I now see that it is soon to drain my love for you. Until you can truthfully and honestly return home and work with me on rebuilding our marriage, I will be having no communication with you, and I will not be seeing you. This is not to punish you, it is to protect my feelings for you and our chances at reconciliation. If we continue as we are now, there would be nothing left.

I ask that you please respect my decision to separate. The pain is too great to be in contact with you while the lying and affair is continuing and because of that, I need to protect myself. I will be seeking counsel on how to best protect the kids financially, specifically child support and how to set that up. And I expect you to continue to support the kids while this is getting figured out.

I want us to be a team, and restore our marriage together. I want you to know that no matter how bad the past was, no matter how ugly, we CAN get past it. With help, our true healing can begin. Look inside yourself and find the strength we will need to do this. I want to grow old with you. I loved you more than life itself while we were together, and I continue to do so as I write this. When you find yourself ready and willing to truly and fully commit to our family, willing to work on a plan for our recovery, and go to counseling, I will be ready and willing to discuss our future. I am committed to our marriage. I believe that we can build a marriage that is stronger and more beautiful than we have experienced. Beginning today, I walk forward in life, and I want you to walk with me. I love you with all of my heart.

Forever and ever, your loving wife,

Here is the "addendum":

Until your affair ends, and you are willing to follow a plan of reconciliation with me, I will avoid seeing you or talking to you. There will be NO contact between us during this time. No text messages, emails or phone calls. XX and XX have agreed to be the intermediaries and help make arrangements for you to see our children on schedule that is mutually convenient. If you want to communicate about the children or any other mater, it will have to be through them.

Through them we will discuss all important information about child visitation, drop off points and financial obligations.
I have also packed up all your personal belongings and those things will be left in the storage unit. I have left a key with XX and XX.

Child visitation:
To make visitation easy you will need to buy DS a car seat for your car. I will leave DD's car seat at first drop off.
I will drop off the kids at XX and XX's house ~30 minutes before your scheduled pick up time. Please be on time as to not waste the XX's time. If for some reason the XX's are unavailable for drop off/pick up then it will be at another one of our friend�s house.

This is what I propose:
Wednesdays: 5pm � 8pm
Sundays: 3pm � 7:30pm

Christmas:
Presents for the kids needs to be discussed before being bought.
The kids will be spending Christmas day at their home.


As soon as you are willing to permanently end your relationship, follow precautions to avoid absolutely any contact with the other person, and join me in a plan to restore our relationship, I will be willing to discuss our future together with you.

you did good!! I tightened it up a bit and removed some lovebusters:

This is a difficult letter for me to write, one that I have been mentally working on for a bit now. I have written this letter with the true love that only a wife can have for a husband. Please read every word I have written, for it is from the heart.

I would like to acknowledge and apologize for my part in the demise of our marriage. I neglected your needs, and failed to give you what you needed many times. I'm sure this helped create a void in our marriage. I want us to have a happy, passionate, romantic marriage and am willing to do what it takes to create this. I want to be able to put the past behind us, and build a great marriage for us.

The eight years that we have been married and the two years before that that we were together were filled with an endless number of hugs, smiles, tears and laughs. I have loved you every minute of every day that we have spent together. We really have had some amazing moments together. ....[mushy memories]..... We have brought into the world two amazing children who are two of the most adorable and well-rounded children ever and we have started giving them the world that we both have always wanted to give our children.

The past three/four weeks have been the most difficult of time for me, the most emotionally traumatic in my life. Whereas recently I have endured the hurt and pain, I now see that it is soon to drain my love for you. It is because of this that I must stop communicating with you. It is just too painful.

Until your affair ends, and you are willing to follow a plan of reconciliation with me, I will avoid seeing you or talking to you. This is not to punish you, it is to protect my feelings for you and our chances at reconciliation. If we continue as we are now, there would be nothing left. As such, any contact regarding the children and finances needs to be facilitated through my friend, XXXX. They will facilitate pertinent information about child visitation, drop off points and financial information. I have also packed up all your personal belongings and those things will be left in the storage unit. I have left a key with XX and XX.

I ask that you please respect my decision to separate and not contact me directly. The pain is too great to be in contact with you under these circumstance; I need to protect myself. I will be seeking counsel on how to best protect the ourselves financially, specifically child support and how to set that up. I expect you to continue to support us while this is getting figured out.

I want us to be a team, and I want us to have a better marriage than what we had before. I want to grow old with you. I loved you more than life itself while we were together, and I continue to do so as I write this. When you find yourself ready and willing to truly and fully commit to our family, willing to work on a plan for our recovery, and go to counseling, I will be ready and willing to discuss our future. I am committed to our marriage. I believe that we can build a marriage that is stronger and more beautiful than we have experienced. Beginning today, I walk forward in life, and I want you to walk with me. I love you with all of my heart.

Forever and ever, your loving wife,

Here is the "addendum�:


Child visitation:
To make visitation easy please buy DS a car seat for your car. I will leave DD's car seat at first drop off.
I will drop off the kids at XX and XX's house ~30 minutes before your scheduled pick up time. If for some reason the XX's are unavailable for drop off/pick up then it will be at another one of our friend�s house.

This is what I propose:
Wednesdays: 5pm � 8pm
Sundays: 3pm � 7:30pm

Christmas:

I will make the kids available for you to pick up on Christmas Eve from 5 to 8.

Thank you Melody!

NOW, when you go into Plan B, you need to avoid sending him messages. It is ok for the IM to send him a message about the visitation arrangements, but do not send him a bunch of messages. Try to avoid this at ALL COST. The visitation should be at the same time on the same day of the week to avoid a bunch of contact.

Don't make the mistake of sending him a bunch of messages after you have already told him no contact.

And secondly, please ask your IM to ONLY send absolutely pertinent information regarding the kids or finances IN HER OWN WORDS.

She should not send you wayward fogbabble messages, because they will come!! She will get a long winded email about how you made him miserable for years and you caused the affair and that if you want any chance of reconciliation you need to be in touch with him. That is STANDARD wayward fogbabble from a WS who is angry he lost control.

He will also tell her you are being "immature." And he will probably REFUSE to use your IM at first. When taht happens, it is CRITICAL that you hold firm and do not allow him to contact you. If he refuses, the IM should send him an email just saying that if he wants to get a message to you, it will have to come through her.

If your IM needs any help, just send the mods an email and get my email address. I would be HAPPY to help her navigate the minefields.

And if your IM tries to manage and control the situation, for GODS SAKE, dump them immediately. That is a disaster when a well-meaning IM tries to interfere with your plan. Your plan comes from Dr Bill Harley, a clinical psychologist and it was not carelessly or ignorantly devised.

This is good advice! I will make sure the IM knows!

Alright, I have moved almost all of WH's personal belongings in our storage unit. I have a bday party to attend with my DD and then I am going to take the PB letter to the IM.

I just opened my email and find an email from him:

"I�m ready to move forward with the process of starting the divorce. From my perspective, it seems from the actions that you�ve taken, asking to move out, and not telling me it�s confusing to the kids for them to see me in the house � that you�ve also started the process of accepting that a divorce is going to be our next step. Is that true?"

He then outlines what the process will be like. Then he says "I believe that you and I can work through all of the above information. I�m going to make sure that you and the kids are taken care of as an outcome of this. This is going to be the biggest change for you, out of everybody. Throughout this process, there are some tactical things that you need to figure out. "

He then goes into talking about me finding a job and how child support will most likely work.

He finishes it with:
"I still need to find somewhere to stay, but I�m trying to wait until things are more final so that I know what I can afford.



I would like to come back to the house while we work through it. But, I�ll leave that up to you. I know you�re trying to heal from what I did to you. The lies, the cheating, all of it. For what it�s worth, I am very sorry for lying to you, and for cheating on you. There are no excuses and there is no justification. I know you�re trying to care of yourself, and I want to respect that and help as much as possible. But, it�s also got to be hard to be dealing with the kids by yourself and trying to spend time on you. I think it could be helpful for you if I came back home while we work through the divorce, and you can have more time to yourself. I can�t comprehend what you�re going through and what having me in the house means for you, so I just want to throw this out there and let you decide.

I�m around all day if you want to talk. "

Insert big huge eye roll from me. =/

I could CRY WITH RELIEF that you are smart enough to see through this ploy. Do you see how he is trying to weasel his way back? This is what I expected. He wants to come home and enjoy all the luxuries of home and family while he carries on his affair or "while we work our way through it." This is an example of how cruel a wayward can be and is why we are so adamant that a woman protect herself.

Stick to your plan, my dear. You can see how he is having second thoughts. He is hoping to come home under HIS OWN CONDITIONS and has not quite accepted that it will only be on your conditions. It is your way or NO WAY, period.

If you just stick to this plan, I predict he will come around when he sees you are dead serious. I also predict he will REBEL against Plan B so just be prepared to stand your ground. Have your IM email me if she needs help.

you are doing great, and I am so proud of you!!! You are a very strong woman.

Give your IM my email address if she has any quesitons. I am sure your H will give her hell initially, and I can help her navigate without involving you. Let me know when you have read this, and I will remove my email address.

You need to also find a way to block him frmo sending you emails. Even if it means shutting down that account.

Thank you Melody. I will admit after I read that email from him I second guessed myself about everything. But I know I need to continue with this Plan.

Ok I most definitely will.

Love the threats..." This will likely effect you the most." In his dreams. He hasnt calculated what CS will really be.

ETA: you should check how your state calculates child support. Do you have copies of all your financial statements?

Cooperating with someone who wants to destroy your marriage will result in a destroyed marriage. He has made it very clear that is his goal. Your husband wants to have you around on his terms, which is to destroy your marriage - and bring you down - for his own selfish purposes. Keep that in mind when you read his message. His goal is to destroy your marriage today, but that won't be his goal when his fog dissipates.

His fog will dissipate when reality intrudes. That is what you are doing right now. While there are no guarantees, you are guaranteed to end up divorced if you cooperate with him. You have a CHANCE to save your marriage if you follow your plan.

You've been as sharp as a new suit, while being as graceful and purposeful as the tide during this crisis from start to finish!

He's essentially saying yeah I'm reeeally sorry, but I'm still going to stick it to you financially and you'll get a job to support my affair. Talk to me instead of a lawyer OK?




I am sure he is now super glad that you reached out for help through exposure, if he understands he has abandoned you all, right?

Man I really hope that fog dissipates!

I'm sure he's thinking that since I am still his best friend he can hold my hand through this real painful ordeal.... insert another huge eye roll.

yep!!! Living alone over Christmas without his family and without the OW will be a stark dose of reality that he sorely needs!

Did you contact the OWH again to give him an update? He can be your greatest ally at this time.

I haven't yet but I can. I am not sure he will care I know he said that their relationship was for sure over because of this affair.

Have they separated?

I don't know.

I will and I will look to find what I have.

I would keep him in the loop because he needs to know your husband is out there prowling around.

Ok, I just messaged him.

I have been following your saga and I just want to pipe up to say - you are a total rock star and inspiration to me. Your strength is absolutely amazing and impressive. And willingness to wait for guidance and not react immediately to provocation is your best friend and I believe a trait will see you through this ordeal to the absolute best possible outcome.

I also want to say - MELODYLANE is a GIFT FROM GOD. I have watched her counsel so many on here and when they don't follow the advice I am shouting "no, no, stop, turn back..."

Regarding your husband's email above - BLECH. If I was in your shoes this would make me second guess myself too. But from the outside looking in? It only makes me want to vomit.

It's all pretty nauseating, but the phrase I underlined strikes me as particularly manipulative and desperate on his part. How kind and thoughtful he is to worry about a poor fragile creature such as yourself so much! (While he continues to twist the knife he has stuck in your back.) What a guy... Seriously - it is just SO condescending.

I really do believe he may come out of his fog in the face or your strength and love and you very well may have a marriage that is better than ever some day.

Stay Strong! You totally rock!!!

Thank you, Anywife!!

Thank you so much.

She has been so helpful. Everyone has.


I do believe that his email was just another way to try and control the situation.

I am trying to stay so strong. Thank you!

Bella, please see my email to your IMs. If they cannot support you, I agree you should find another IM, but your H will disagree with anyone. He is refusing to respect your Plan B because he wants to "co-parent" with you. Please be aware that what he wants is to have access to you. He does not want to give that up, which is typical of a wayward spouse. His claim to want to "co-parent" for the sake of the kids is hilarious given that he has just destroyed 2 families in pursuit of his affair.

I need you to stand strong and not give into wayward pressure. If your IMs will not support your Plan B then you do need to find someone who will. And I don't give a damn if he approves of your IM choice or not. It is not his decision. Keep in mind that he does not have your best interest at heart, this is all about pure self interest. If he cared about his family, we would not be having this discussion.

To add to this, plan b is in the best interest of your children because it protects your mental health. Not that your husband knows or cares about their best interest.. Protecting you from him is in their best interest.

Yes, I did get your email, thank you again!

And yes, it is hard to stay strong but that is what I am going to do... what I have to do.

If anything it is preferable if the IM is someone who he doesn't know or approve of. The ideal IM won't give a rap about his opinion, so don't try and choose a friend or relative of his, you need someone who is in your corner entirely.

When WH gets in touch with IM saying "I don't agree with this and won't use you". The IM shouldn't really care and will just reply. "Here when you need me". You are offering contact about co-parenting and finances. That's where your responsibility ends. You don't need to tie a bow and a friendly face on it.

When he rants at IM about you, or tries to plead he needs to talk to you the IM should say "Don't see anything pertinent to pass back. My only instructions are to pass relevant child/finance messages." The IM won't mention a thing to you, protecting your peace.

This is easier if the IM is objective and isn't friends with WH.

All of our friends here are our friends. I don't have really anyone that is just my friend. I picked this IM because I knew they would do a good job. They aren't in our 'inner circle' but are in our outer circle if that makes sense.

MelodyLane talked with them for a while so I think they are on board.

Also today I had a consult with a lawyer. I guess now we just sit and wait?

What did the attorney say?

It will take a min of 60 days to finalize the divorce once it is filed, if it is uncontested. Once it is filed WH will be required to continue to support us till the divorce is final. Talked about division of property and custodial primary. Also I will work on a budget and think about finding a job after the holidays.

I think that was about it.

Did you discuss filing for adultery?

No. Is that a thing?

Yes, many states will allow you to file for cause. It is generally recommended here that you file for cause if you can - it creates a permanent record of the affair, can cause problems for the affair. Plus in some states, it is used in settlements and custody decisions.

Imagine the fight it would cause if the OW had to testify in court that she slept with your WH.

One thing you can do is file using grounds of adultery, which will drag it out. Your goal is to drag this out so the affair will collapse before the divorce is final. Your state is not a fault state, but adultery is taken into account in custody and property division. They would subpoena the OW and force her to testify.

For now, you can just chill, but if he pulls some stunt and stops supporting you, you will need to file for divorce. And then you can drag it out for a long time.

Most attorneys only want to facilitate an easy, uncontested divorce that is over in a few months but that is not what we want for you.

Yes, this is something the lawyer did say.

Man I am so upset right now. I found out that a friend of ours knew about the affair! So upset.

Also WH made it clear to the IMs today that he wanted to talk to me. Also that he's meeting with his lawyer tomorrow at 2 and getting the process started.

Your IM doesn't need to tell you all of that. You don't need to know what he wants.

If he files, you can respond. Did your attorney mention of there is any advantage to filing first?

I can't remember. Did you expose at his work?

Ok.

The only advantage would be that if it goes to court, The filing party would go first and last in court.

Yes.

The answer is no. You should refuse to speak to your husband and hold your ground. You can just tell the IM's that the answer is no.

Sorry to learn that your "friend" knew about the affair and didn't tell you. Not much of a "friend."

I'm sorry.

You do find out who your real friends are, when you go through this.

This is true. Even talking with some girl friends I don't think they really 'get' it. They just keep saying "you deserve better" which is nice, I agree. But I want to make the marriage I already have better.

Bella, I have found this as well. Its difficult to try to convince people that you want to stay with your WS. Even my own brother has called my WW a "harlot" and "I deserve better than her."

I just say "thanks for your opinion, but I want to at least try to salvage the marriage I have - I made a commitment and I intend to honor it." Good friends and Family may not agree with you on it, but they will respect your decision...

At least that's what I have found. I know it does not help a whole lot.

Most people do not get it unless they have been through it.

Dr. Harley says he was very surprised when people started coming to him asking him for help to save their marriages after an affair. He didn't expect very many people to want to do that.

In fact, up until recently Dr. Harley said he would not have tried to stay married if that had happened to him - a couple years ago he started saying otherwise.

You do deserve better, and with the plans here you get it. Either your husband gets on board and gives you better, or you are protected from him for a better life without him. Obviously the preference is that he decides to get on board and do the right thing, and in that case this plan gives you the best chance possible to save your marriage in that you are kept as emotionally healthy as possible so as to be ready for recovery.

Even if you didn't want to save your marriage, the no contact, don't see or talk to him Plan B is best for personal recovery.

Tell the IM to filter out stuff like that. She can just tell him that since his request doesn't meet your terms, she won't pass it on.

All mine knew! The biggest and best effect of exposure was clearing the decks for much better friends.



Can she read the IM training thread? You should not have any idea what your WH is doing/thinking/responding. You have better things to concern yourself with.

She should respond "I don't see any pertinent messages to pass on under BC's guidelines. Let me know if any cancellations of visitiation etc" and then she shouldn't tell you anything about it.

It's good for her and simplifying the role too. She will become piggy in the middle if she plays ball with him



I remember how exasperating this was, but really weren't you surprised yourself that you wanted to recover? I was; I had no idea that most people do.

It's alarming to them that's all. A good way to reassure them is to talk about how high your standards are for your future husband! If your WH wants to be that person he is going to need to be VERY impressive indeed! They think you will let him slink back with an apology (which is what usually happens).

This plan absolutely protects you and my loved ones were convinced in the end.

I was very surprised that I would want to recover!

I'll have to remember this!

How is it going today?

Eh. alive.

You will feel so much better in a few weeks time.

You need little plans in Plan B. A stack of treats. Books, bubble bath, chocolate. Plans for every weekend. Hugs on demand. My best tips are funny friends and really silly movies.

Good list! Doing stuff is hard though when I don't want to do anything! =/

Bella, I hope everything went ok today. Your WH has tried to get through to you almost every day this week. I hope you are keeping up the fight and not letting him get through!

Today was ok. I am totally staying strong! And honestly I don't understand why he would want to talk to me/get through to me you know. What could I possibly say to change his mind, that I haven't said already? He either agrees to commit or we get a divorce (which is what he wants anyway right?!)

Isn't it interesting how a WS who claims to want to get out of a marriage so badly can't bear to be cut off from you? This happens almost every time. Your H was pretty creative in conjuring up many "reasons" he had to be in touch with you! I don't know if he will really file for divorce. I felt like he said that as an implied threat to get you to talk to him. We will see if he really files.

Yea! Ha! We will see I guess. =/

Today I was given divorce papers. =/

Don't be alarmed! It does not mean the end. You need to hire a lawyer and show him the papers. You can also consider using adultery in your counter becuase it is taken into account in your state when it comes to custody and property division.

ALSO, most attorneys will try to get you to stay in direct contact and "co-parent." The reason is because they are lazy and want to facilitate an easy, "amicable" divorce. That is not in the best interest of your marriage so you will need to express to your lawyer that he needs to back you up on Plan B, which is recommended by a psychologist. You can tell him that your goal is "parallel parenting" which is the best plan for you. Check this out: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2566139#Post2566139

Get back to attorney right away. If the attorney isnt on board and supporting your plan, get a new one.

I know, but it's really hard not to feel like it is!



Ok.



Ok, I will definitely mention this. Thanks!

Ok! Thanks!

I'm sure you're already doing this, but please make sure you're documenting everything.

DOCUMENT DOCUMENT DOCUMENT

I have been documenting and also keeping all receipts of money I've been spending. But I have not read this thread so thank you for sharing it, it's helpful!

Good job. And we will be here for you.

Thank you.

How are you?

Hanging in there. Trying to stay hopeful but still losing a tiny bit of hope each day. Trying to keep myself busy which is also a struggle but I am doing my best.

Bella, you are doing a great job! While there are no guarantees, the things you have done give you the best chance at reconciliation. If your husband does not get on board, though, Plan B provides an emotional detachment that will make it easier for you to move on.

From what I have seen from dealing with your IM's, your Plan B has really upset your husband. He has tried many ways to get you to break Plan B so he could be in direct contact. You have all the leverage right now, so staying dark not only protects you, but motivates him to meet your conditions. Your best hope is to hold fast and not let him through unless and until he comes to the IM's on bended knee willing to fully commit to marital recovery.

Now that you have removed yourself, it will fall to the OW to meet all his needs. This will be the beginning of the end of his affair. Your Plan B gives him a stark reality check of what divorce looks like and reminds him of all that he has sacrificed for a faithless married woman. This is why he is so anxious to get in touch with you. If you are in touch with him, the reality of his actions won't seem so stark.

p.s. I have not heard from your IM's in several days, so I am assuming everything is going smoothly? If you can keep us updated, we can help navigate any problems and I can email your IM's.

They were out of the country for a few days and recently got back. And she actually told me that she had to talk to you about something two days ago. Maybe she hasn't gotten around to it yet?

Thank you. I need to read these words every day!

I emailed with her on Saturday but have heard nothing since. Hoping no news is good news!!

Ok, Saturday is when they got back.

So I just saw WH.

Today's kids visitation pick up and drop off was at the house. I had gotten a sitter to handle the exchange since nobody was available to help out. He was told to honk when he got here and the sitter would bring the kids out.

I was upstairs in my bedroom.

When he gets here he knocks. I notice that there is talking and the kids are still in the house. I then hear someone upstairs in the loft area. I know it's him. I come out and ask what he is doing. He says he's looking for something. I tell him he needs to take the kids and leave and that he can't be inside. He says it's raining. I said I don't care. Take the kids and leave. He says he needs something from our bedroom. I said no and that he tell my IM about it and get it later. He says no I need to get something. Then he pushes past me and goes and gets it. Then he leaves. I tell him he can't come in the house again.

The poor sitter was so sorry! She felt so bad. I'm sure WH was hoping I wasn't home.

I am so upset. It wasn't anything important that he grabbed either. Earrings and what looked like hair trimmers? But I'm not too sure as I couldn't see it.

I was doing so well and now I feel more heartbroken.

One thing I have noted when dealing with your IM's is that he is desperate to be in direct contact with you! I consider this another manifestation of that. Your air tight Plan B makes him very unhappy, and that is a good thing!

Hi, Bella.
After being away from this site for many years (marriage restored, and doing well), I came back tonight to investigate. I recently heard about a friend dealing with infidelity issues and want to direct her here, so I came by to see if it's still the BEST place to get excellent advice. IT IS!!!

Anyway, the reason I am telling you this is because YOUR thread caught my eye, and I ended up reading ALL the way through it (all 27 pages!). For whatever reason, I feel compelled to let you know that your execution of your Plan A and B has been flawless! You don't need me to, of course, you've got some experts with great advice handling this! But I thought it might be good hear it from yet another person who's come through this and survived on the other side.

I know it's painful, and extremely scary at this point....you're sure you're about to lose everything at any second. But hang on! Yours is far from the most desperate situation I ever saw, and you are doing everything right!

When your WH is out of the fog, he will be soooo grateful you gave this everything you had to save your marriage! TRUST ME! Hang in there, girl, and know you are going to be fine.

Last point: After reading about his feeble attempt to get into the house (and briefly succeeding), I believe one reason your WH wanted to get into the house so desperately is to snoop around and see if there is another reason you don't want him in the house (if you get my drift!). lol. Now he'll be even MORE confused! He didn't see anything to point to YOUR having a "revenge" affair! LOL!

Ugh, but it's so hard! Blah! I am feeling much better now though.

Thank you thank you thank you. This is really so hard and hearing your words of encouragement is really helpful. And gives me a little bit of hope. Thanks. =)

You're very welcome!

The main reason this is so very hard (and scary!) is because it's so COUNTER-intuitive. Our human nature wants to do all the OPPOSITE things from what will actually work to bring the WS out of this mind-set.

You're doing great!

I'm only "butting in" to give you a little more encouragement, but you've got some great "advisors." I recognize some of the names from my time on here. It was a long time ago. I wanted to come back and helpl others, as they are, but I just needed a break from all the pain. It was just too hard at the time. Plus, we needed to be positive and work on "us."

:-)

A bit of an update: Still going through divorce... WH was trying to get out of paying for me and the kids living expenses during the divorce. "He can't afford paying his new apartment and us" ::insert eye roll: Thankfully he has backed off on that nonsense.

But now I'd like some advice or insight on having Plan B/no contact used against you during divorce. I've talked a bit with Melodylane already about this. We both believe that he is for sure still seeing the OW since he hasn't reached out yet. And I have contacted a PI for a consult. I also tried contacting OWH and never heard back from him.

My lawyer feels like me not having direct contact with WH would be seen as not cooperating and show bad for me if it were to go to court. And saying in not so many words that I just need to get over it. She wants me to think about having contact through email at least.

I am still going to stick to my guns about this but would like to know if anyone else has ever been in this situation.

Thanks and have a good day!

Hi Bella, most people here have been through this and they did what I suggested: told their lawyer why they are only to have contact through an intermediary and insisted they defend that stance. This position comes from Dr Bill Harley, licensed clinical psychologist and is the best thing for your mental health and for your marriage. There is absolutely nothing that can't be cmminucated through an IM.

Your lawyer can see very well that you are cooperating by providing a means of communication through an intermediary.

Yup, like I said I def plan to stick to my guns! =)

moderator's note to Franklin12575: please feel free to start up your own website giving advice contradictory to that of Dr. Harley. But don't do it here. The purpose of our forum is to help posters find solutions using MB concepts. If you have any questions, contact me directly rather than posting here. Thank you.