Hello....

I am not new to this....but i need help becasue i don;t know what to do. I have been with my wife for 16 years. We have been married 10. Two days ago she dropped the bomb on me that she has been seeing someone else. It is so hard on the emotional rollercoaster struggling with being mad...but trying not to push her away because I want her to see me...and not push her further into the arms of the other man.

History. I am now almost 48)next week) and she is 35. Today. we met when she was 18 and i was 31. WHen I was 35...I had cancer and went through 4 rounds of chemo. During my time in the hospital...things went to crap. SHe was frightened and took it out on me. And she had a new baby....her stress turned me into a punching bag. I felt, at the time, that this was her abandoning me and abusing me in my time of need. AFter my cure...her abuse continued, and I had an affair. I will always and forever be ashamed of what I did. We used Marriage Builders to recover from it...we were not married then...and about a year later we were on a good path, and got married.

A year after we were married....she had a boyfriend then, and again we survived.

Up till now...I am +2 days d-day. I do not know how to survive this time. It seems we are in a catch 22. SHe is an angry person and tends to insult me on a daily basis...and then she says i am not meeting her emotional needs....but it is made difficult by her anger. SP she is angry..takes it out on me....i then shy away from her and put my walls up...and am not very lovey dovey/

I want desperately to fix this. I love her to death despite our troubles. We are responsible...there are no drugs or alcohol, we make a great team in all other aspect and she is a great mom.

Right now she is staying at her moms...she comes in the morning to see the kids off to school...and spends from time they get home to their bed time here. I do not want to split her off from her kids, but I need her gone as much as possible.

She is not yet willing to end the affair, and I do not want to have her comings and goings in my face. It is too hard...so this is where we stand now.

I need to know what I should be doing...what to read...pointed in the right direction...figure out how to control the emotional rollercoaster so I can try and win back her affection.

Please help

Thanks
Jimmy

A little more background information....

The other man is disabled with no job, is a pill popper (not saying it to be mean, but he had a motorcycle accident last year and is using 18-20 pain pills in 2 days. His girlfreind he just broke up with 3 days ago...is an LPN and he started using her to beg using her position to get more drugs...she refused), he is also on probabtion for physical abuse to his wife...in December...yes...he had a wife...and another girlfreind...my wife outed him to his girlfreind before telling me...but is still willing to put up with all this because he is meeting her emotional needs.

It is all in my face...he posted "in a relationship" to my wife on facebook..changed his background pic to a pic of her...and wished her happy birthday today with a terribly misspelled devotion of ever ending love.

They have supposedly been seeing each other for real about 2 weeks...talking about a moth and a half,

This frightens me for her...because he seems really stalkerish...has threatened me via text...and it all seems really hot and heavy for 2 weeks. Their are claims of no sex so far...but she did say she is surprised and kinda wishes there was.

Welcome to MB.

Have you exposed the affair?

Yes...Her family seems to not really care...Or they hate it...But are supportive of her. .I am careful about community exposure to protect the kids. They are involved in a lot of community events...I do not want THEM to wear the scarlet letter

Hi Jimmy, welcome back. The first thing you should do is expose the affair wide and far. Affairs thrive on secrecy, so exposing it will help it end faster. I would start by telling any children over age 4 so they fully understand what is happening to their family. Go read the link in my signature.

I would focus on killing this affair.

The main problems in your marriage is that your wife is a serial cheater. A serial cheater is someone who is out looking for action, very different from the typical cheater who falls into cheating because they have poor boundaries around the opposite sex. There isn't much you can do to save this marriage unless your wife will agree to make a radical change in her lifestyle. Nothing you do can overcome her openly searching for action.

Exposure might help her see how terrible she looks to others so I would strongly encourage you to expose.

This is of course, great advice...it rips my heart out...but i know it needs to be done. I trust this system.

It just goes against my heart that is wanting to reach out to her and prove my worth...it is so difficult.

I am afraid this is because my own self worth is probably at a very low place.

This makes absolutely no sense when the affairees are already putting 'in a relationship' with pictures and messages on facebook

Obviously, your kids are going to hear about this one way or the other. Wouldn't you rather it come from YOU and be the TRUTH instead of some gossip or lies?

I have a hard time being the one to destroy them....so hard.

I would not suggest you destroy them, but that you tell them the truth. Kids can deal with the truth, they can't deal with lies. If you don't tell them, you leave them confused and vulnerable to your wife's lies. If you don't tell them the truth, I assure you she will tell them lies.

SHe posted this on her wall and outed herself before I could.

"Hey friends and family! I generally try to keep my personal life personal, but I am being pushed over the edge. So, I'm going to put it out there once and once only. I have spent the past 10 of 16 years in a loveless marriage. I've begged and pleaded for change and permanent change never came. I've threatened with divorce many times, but was too much of a coward to follow through. I've begged for love and attention, but never received it. I've felt trapped and incredibly lonely for 10 YEARS!!!! This has done irreversible damage to my self esteem. I've been desperate to feel loved, special, wanted, beautiful, important.....
I've found someone who gives me that. Finding this person gives me just enough strength to say I deserve better. It's unfortunate that this is what it takes for me to have the courage to end my loneliness. I wish I had courage before, without needing someone to lift me up first. But unfortunately that didn't happen. I am having an affair. Yes, I'm a terrible selfish person. I am hurting my husband and more importantly my children. I have to put me first, for once.
I would really like to apologize to friends and family and people in my community, especially those whose children I care for and interact with. I will NEVER do anything to neglect or harm any child. I would've preferred to not share this information with parents of my Girl Scouts or my children's teachers and Girl Scout Leaders or any of you, really. I am being strong armed into exposing this so I would rather do it myself.
With that said, Thank you ***EDIT***, for making me feel special and loved and wanted and helping me have courage I didn't have before. At this point, I don't really care what anyone else thinks.
There ***EDIT***, you terrorist....I hope this is what you wanted. Happy Birthday to me!!!"


I think it is time for me to try and heal and let her go. Maybe I need an attorney and not marriage builders.

Whether or not you decide to leave, you should still expose the affair. I would expose to the OMs family, friends, your family, your kids, etc. have you spoken to her family about the affair?

Did you tell her you were going to expose her affair?

SHe knew i was on Marriage builders...she know the program...and preemptively exposed it with her truth. I was still putting together my letter from your signature.

I am afraid i dropped the ball and was too slow. SHe already exposed it to everyone.

She also then admitted that the affair with Brian a year into our relationship wen on another 2 years after i thought it ended. Somehow i was blinded by it. I though i monitored everything and she was done.

SO I now look at a timeline.

A year into our marriage...she had an affair....went on for 2 years and only ended when we moved to Maryland. SO i had no chance for two years....then after that...since i never knew...she was grieving while we were in Maryland from the loss of Brian. So I had no chance during her greiving period.

I think because i never knew any of this...I never stood a chance...i think it's been over for years...it could have been 5 of the first 4 years of our marriage that she was either with someone else...or resentful of me for ending it.

By then too much damage was done...we were in a cycle of her anger pushing me away and then her emotional needs not being met by me because my walls were up from her anger.

I do not put this all on her...I missed so many signs we needed help for so long.

This is why you need to expose the affair yourself. She has told "her truth," [ie: her spin] which means she told people a bunch of crap to justify her behavior. You should expose the affair, giving the OM's name. Additionally, you should expose it to his family and friends. AND your children.

And I agree you should end the marriage. Your wife is not someone who falls into affairs, but a person who is out looking for it. There is nothing you can do to overcome that. BUT, you need to get the truth out. There is no such thing as "her truth" and "your truth;" the truth is the truth.

Also, your wife does not have affairs because of unmet needs,,but because she is out looking for action. You could have met her needs 100% and she would have still had affairs.

Thank you. I will.

When will you be exposing? Who is on your list to expose to?

Her family...my family....his family. It has already been exposed to his family...in my way. His daughter was against it and forced the exposure to start.

I also save a lot of facebook contacts of her friends. WIll try and do it all through PM's to keep it private, but exposed.

I exposed to my 12 year old. Still struggling with the 7/9 year old. I did tell them today of divorce. I am trying to work on the best way to tell them the rest.

And immediately. Tomorrow....I need to be with my kids for tonight. 2 are sick.

I will report back...i do love the support you all provide. and thank you.

Here Exposing to Children

Exposing has not gone well....she already got the message out and they all think I am just a lunatic. LOL

Here is what she posted on her wall to refute.

**EDIT**

Lol. That must be the WW mantra. Someone else had the same thing here earlier this week.

And her most recent truth....it really is bad...i just don;t understand how adultery no longer shames people. I really did not know her.

Edited out picture

I want to look away...but it is a train wreck. I exposed to my children.

You might want to remove the images from this thread, take care of your online privacy.

Also, I don;t think it is wise to post all kinds of things on FB. If anything, just post the exposure letter and refrain from further comments. It inevitably gets ugly one way or another.

Believe me, if she wasn't ashamed she wouldn't be on facebook writing ridiculous justifications. She is just fogged out.

so I decided to be about half and half in trying to make this work, and following the paths to protect myself.

In the end....i think the path leads to the same place...either divorce or recovery...and I am trying to understand that i cannot control which...it takes change on both our parts.

I have taken some steps....for me. I have reached out to freinds...I bought another car (hey..she will only get one of them...but if she got the primary, i would be in less of a position to care for them with custody.)

Here is the problem....I need to talk to you guys more. I am making mistakes...and I am pushing her further away.

the Mistakes I have made:

Believing that after my WW agrees to end the affair, she truly has. It didn;t last time and I was naive...I have to brace myself this time.

Demanding that my WW pledge 100% commitment at the time of disclosure. Yup...the ultimatum....ultimately does not go well and you get to hear all kids of thing you don't want to....like "this is what makes me happy right now, and I don;t want to end it" Ouch.

Bludgeoning with guilt. Yes...in my hurt...i want her to feel shame and guilt. But I can't...that is her feeling to own...i can't own it for her.

Believing I can keep WW safe and away from temptation. I know this dude is bad news. I know it won't end well....but telling her that does no good. She has to make her own mistakes. I have to decide if I want to be here when the cards fall. That is not up to her...it is up to me.

Trying to compete with the affair partner. Yes...the groveling...the low self esteem...the panic...the desperate pleading to have her see you for you...that you are better. Lets face it...right now I am not better. She wants what she wants because i missed signs.

Trashing the affair partner...OH YEAH...I have done this in spades. Talk about drawing them closer...now she is on the defense for him. BAD.

Trying to drive the OM away by personal confrontation...only via text and FB...but yes. I have, I even had evidence she didn't really care about him because it is not about him. But she was able to smooth that over. And of course...that just means another make up moment for them.

Thinking that exposure would be enough for them to quit....yeah no...and right now i am suffering that wrath.

Trying to woo them back...and expecting instant gratification. This is a hard one. I am hurting so bad i would like nothing more then to hold each other and get through this together too.

Believing she is the only one that needs forgiveness for the affair. Obviously she has hurts...and reasons for her infidelity. I have to own those too.


These are my mistakes so far...I am on FIRE...lol....i am on such an emotional rollercoaster that even when i know i am making the mistake...it comes out.

Latest argument happened 10 minutes ago. She came over to see the kids...as per our current arrangement. I was in a meeting with work (i work from home)...all 3 kids home sick. When i was done with the meeting, i found her asleep in a recliner in the playroom...the kids were in the living room with me...so during her time with the kids...she came to my house to sleep. I felt this to be crappy behavior....and resented it....I get no naps. Then she said to me...I can;t hang with the kids...then i will get sick....and that is good for no one....meanwhile...I have been cleaning puke...and doling out medicine...and cuddling. This really set me off as well....and then I said what really yanked my chain....is that I FEEL that she is tired because she is staying up all night involved in her affair, and that she can;t come here to recover from that. ANother mistake. ANd she said she had to go see a freind, and pick up stuff for her mom. SHe did not get here till 3PM...is it too much to ask that she get that done BEFORE her time with the kids? She left. In a huff...and very angry again.

I feel like nothing i do is right...and that i do nothing but push her away. I want to just be neutral to it all, do the right things...do right by me....and just hope she comes back around. I already know it will take RADICAL CHANGE...and I am willing to walk through it ONE MORE TIME...but i need to figure out how to engage with her...in a way that i am not causing fights and making her want to leave even more.

I need your kind words and advice. I cannot do this on my own...I am learning that...and I am all in. I need your help. I will seek my own independent counseling...but there are no local support groups for this where i live.

AND my WW decided to leave the house...so SHE is getting her affair un-interfered now. And it hurts to let that continue. I know she sleeps nights at his house. The hardest part is knowing every time WW leaves...she is going back to OM.

Please help.

Thank so much for reading my ramblings.

And how do I plan B when I have to see her for the kids. She comes here...since she has no real home...and she is NOT taking them to the OM ( I read the "MEN..DO NOT LEAVE THE HOME")...the only time is from School to bed...that is her time...AND my time. How do we really plan B if she spends her evenings here?

I do not want to separate her from her children...but this is hard.

Make up your mind whether or not you want to follow MB and stick to it.

Read exposure 101 again and expose properly.

Do you want to recover your marriage? If so, plan A. Don't argue, don't fight, no LB's. Plan A is not plan doormat, but it is about showing your wife the best husband you can (and after recovery, will) be.

If you don't want to recover, tell it here and you will get more advice.
You cannot go in plan B if you see her on a daily basis.

I DO want to recover our marriage. I know it will take radical change. I accept my role in not meeting my wife's needs. I intend to follow everything here...I trust it. I did do exposure...100% to everyone, using the plan and customizing a sample letter....and our children. using the examples set here.

I would plan A...but she is not ready to end it. This would be my preferred method. With her not ending it...we cannot plan A...unless I have misread and misunderstood.

And I cannot 100% plan B because of the kids.

Nope. Exposure is the biggest blow you can deliver to the affair. If the affair is not killed, plan A is what you do until the affair ends a natural death, or you cannot take anymore.

If you keep LB-ing, the affair partner is the more attractive option. You want to look better than the OM. While the aftershocks of exposure cause havoc in the affair, you need to be the best version of yourself.

The affair will die eventually. If the last memory she has of you as a husband is that of a husband who argues all the time and has angry outbursts, would she want to recover her marriage with that man?

Be the best husband you can be, without enabling the affair.

Usually, men have the stamina to follow plan A for at least six months. Woman don't last that long, three weeks usually is their limit.

I would plan A...but again...she left. Not an option....I guess in a way...since she is here for the kids...that is what we are doing? I am really trying to be the best man I can be. I cleaned the entire kitchen, and it never felt so good to clean. I took a walk. I accomplished things.

I read and reread...And then had a conversation with the Ww again. I am in plan A. Even though she is leaving ...She spends a lot of time here. So I am in plan A. I will embrace it as well as I can. She even said she wanted to sleep here tonight until we had another argument I described earlier...So I had just been misreading my situation. I am in plan A. I have taken to posting on Facebook to "only me"...Lol...So I can express myself without actually posting to the world...When I feel hurt and aggravated. Somewhat cathartic.

So I will check in daily..Or multiple times a day. I will seek guidance through plan A...And I will stop trying to control her...And instead control myself. Should I be doing anything beside exposure to fight the affair? Or give it the time to die while I present myself through my actions as the better/more sensible alternative?

Don't argue. If an argument starts and you cannot control yourself, remove yourself from the situation.

Don't post these things on FB, not even to express yourself. The chance of LB-ing is huge and you want to avoid LB-ing, even in your thoughts. In fact, you need to think of other things. So keep yourself busy doing chores and plan A.

Did you confront OM? If you can control yourself, you can tell him you are fighting for your marriage and to stay the h*** away from your wife. Did you expose to OM parents?

Since your wife posted in 2006 in SAA for advice to recover from your affair and she knows plan A, she knows your strategy. You came back on the forum in 2010 and 2013, so you should know someting about marriagebuilders and affair-proofing your marriage.

Did you ever fill out the emotional needs questionnaire? Did you read lovebusters and do you know how to avoid them?

I have glanced over the 2010 topic. A lot has happened over the years.

You might want to mail your situation to Dr Harley at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com.

Yes, thank you. I know it has. We are completely guilty of laziness...which is why i am willing to work on it again, because i realize...we only used this for crisis...and never to make ourselves better.

It was lazy, and it was dumb. I cannot deny that.

Now here we are again.

So...i am going to put this all down on paper...(type) because i have been reading EVERYTHING this site has to provide...it has been EYE opening to say the least.

I have been reading at a fevers pace. I have to be honest with you...i never bought 100% in to everything marriage builders, etc. Sure...i appreciated the help you provided us....but pride gets in my way and i always think i can do everything on my own. I have come to learn....that no more than i can sit you down at my laptop and ask you to do MY job for a day....other people know way more about marriage and the ways to make it last then i do. I cannot do it on my own...i need advice...i need a path...and someone else can so much better tell me how to do that well then i can. I am learning. I have come to also the conclusion... That because of this...i have been in the wrong for so long. I retreated and loved in the wrong way and never gave WW what she needed. I can't even be mad at her anymore...because i am just as much at fault for this as her. I have done nothing but blame her. Not seeing everything for what it was...but now...putting myself in her shoes...it hurts. I DO want her to fall back in my gravity...but this time i wont do it alone...i don't need to...and i know that now.

Its funny...i was cocky....like literally. I always thought...look at all i do for her...how can she not appreciate all this? Never really being awake to the fact that none of that is important. That she have needs i was not meeting...and not really giving in to it out of my own fear. This is why i want to dance. I want to get out of my fear. In all this time...i have not been truly awake. I am now...and my only hope above all other hopes...is that it is not too late. I am changing as we speak....this is all so liberating...and awakening...and scary....and exciting too. I am going to try...because i know her...and i know that i am hugely at fault here and always have been. I am so ready to show her who i really am. No more fear. No more anger. Just me...all of me.

I think when i first started posting here...I was in a fog of anger....I wanted her to be a serial cheater...I wanted her to be all in the wrong. I wanted that to make myself feel better. Now I realize just how long she has put up with this...and why she has done what she has done. I am taking ownership and being honest.

I no longer want to blame her...yes...she is accountable...and she hurt me. But we both played a role in it...and realizing that is helping me tremendously.

Thank you marriage builders...no matter what happens now...you have a fan for life...if for nothing else...for helping me see...and become a better man.

Did you expose to the OM's Girlfriend?

Who in his family did you expose to? Did you expose to his parents? What did your kids say when you told them?

I exposed to his GF and parents through his timeline before they blocked me...But ingot to see them respond so I knew it got out. I did expose to his girlfriend...We have talked...Kinds leaned on each other a little as birds of a feather. Don't worry...Not going there...It was nreif comiserate. The kids were devastated. When I had my A....We only had one kid. And she was only 1. So I told them everything. I told them about my A...And their moms...And what she is doing right now. I explained to them that even adults make mistakes. That it is not about them...And that they are loved and we both are hear for them.

Above is what I get for being old on a smartphone...Sorry for the typos.

SO today is a difficult day for different reasons. I have committed myself to Plan A. So I am keeping my anger to myself if I feel it. I breathe...and then try and rechannel it into a statement that is caring but gets my point across. I want to be safe for her. I know that she can't commit to me right now...and that of course is my personal struggle and fills me with regret. I am trying not to show my inner fatigue and sadness. I want her to see me as the man she wants and to make her safe when she is here. And of course i want that instant gratification I know I can;t have. Its a marathon and I am in it for the duration.

But it's valentines day. If she leaves tonight....its gonna hurt. Bad.

Help me guys. I need your words and encouragement and what i may be doing wrong or should be doing. I have read now also all of Dr Hartleys "what to do with a WW" letters. It is all helping.

The song she shared with me today that she said is her song to me....


Something always brings me back to you.
It never takes too long.
No matter what I say or do
I'll still feel you here 'til the moment I'm gone.

You hold me without touch.
You keep me without chains.
I never wanted anything so much
Than to drown in your love and not feel your rain.

Set me free,
Leave me be.
I don't wanna fall another moment into your gravity
Here I am and I stand so tall, just the way I'm supposed to be.
But you're on to me and all over me.

Oh, you loved me 'cause I'm fragile
When I thought that I was strong.
But you touch me for a little while
And all my fragile strength is gone.

I live here on my knees
As I try to make you see
That you're everything I think I need here on the ground.

But you're neither friend nor foe
Though I can't seem to let you go.
The one thing that I still know is that you're keeping me down.

Sara Bareilles - Gravity


I cried....i don;t know how long its been since i cried like that.

So she came today...We had a dance party with the kids...They missed school. And I felt the house needed a little love. My wife laughed...And she danced with me. After a little while...Kids were watching TV...And I got her to take the emotional needs questionnaire. The shocking thing...She ranked me high in 4/5 of her top emotional needs...And just killed me on affection. I talked to her about it...And she said it has been so long...She feel heebeed by it from me now. That she sought and is continuing this affair right now because she needs the affection and it feels more natural from the OM. That hurts....But I already knew that. What do I do if the is not receptive to the only emotional need I am not meeting and that she has intention of providing me with right now?

She will be leaving once the kids go to bed...She has Valentine's plans with OM.

I have been there...I showed her the affection I can...I have been doing for her...I have given her a safe space. I don't know what else to do or how to go about giving someone affection when I know right now it weirds them out.

Is it possible she is not heebeed? She held me close while we danced...and we sang my song to her together...and she cried a little.

I saw something in that moment. But i want to stay pragmatic.

For history

Part 1

Part 2

Part 3

Part 4

Part 5

It is obvious to me now...that we will either need to commit to this process or end it. We have been so willy nilly in the past.

I can only say 1 thing, and that is as of right now, this very moment. I am still very much in love with my wife. I have not been a good husband, but i withdrew out of what I felt was to protect myself and we have been in a viscous cycle and just using this forum for crisis and not to make ourseleves a better couple. So I am in PLAN A....i will commit 100%...and I will commit to this 100% for the long haul if we make it this time. I have learned my lesson.

If we stop using this...I will see that as my sign. I don;t expect her to show up any time soon. That won;t be until I can get her post A and into our recovery.

I have some hope. She took the time to do the ENQ....if she didn;t care...she wouldn't bother. I have to take what small signs i can get as encouragement to move forward and hope that every day is a day moving forward and not moving back. SO far today has been good. We have spoken, and we have spoken on things that hurt. But we did it with respect and understanding.

Still tortured knowing she will leave to spend valentines night with him...but that is my cross to bear.

I am trying....help me out.

Anyone....I am going kinda nuts.

Just need to get a handle on my emotions. Every day I have committed myself to say to her before she leaves...." Please don't go". It is not a demand. I know for now she will go. But I want her to know she is safe and welcome here and that i want her here. I think she won;t come back until A has ended....god knows when that will be. I just have to be as patient as I can be.

I read other people's posts...and I wonder if I am acting like a child because it is so hard to control.

SHe brought in valentines gifts for the kids...stuffed bears and candies...and handed me one of those dollar store 5 piece chocolate boxes. I felt like an afterthought. But i guess right now I am...should I be greatful she even did that?

By the way....when I danced earlier....that was huge for me. I am a wallflower...but I am trying to break out of my shell for her. If I am going to be a better man...hopefully someday we can go dancing. And if we don;t work out....hey...I need to be better for me and more outgoing for me anyway.

I also need to be honest about another thing my wife has never gotten about me. And that I need to change.

I grew up in a very strict household. Father was military...and not very kind. I spent HUGE swaths of my childhood confined to my room. Then I joined the NAVY and was on my own. I have often been a loner as a result. To me...having her in the same room has been a comfort to me. It never meant i didn't love her....quite the opposite. I loved her ENOUGH to let her into my world and my space. Mine was a quiet love...not what she needed.

I know that needs to change. It is selfish activity on my part and is no way to love. I am working on it.


+6 days d-day.

You're not really asking any questions, Jim - you're blogging, and posting song lyrics.

All you can do now is stick to Plan A, showing consideration for her when she does come to visit the kids. You have a big advantage by being the father of her children. Wait for the affair to die, and when it does, she will remember your kindness and you will be the obvious person for her to turn to.

Ok..i will rephrase as questions.

1) How do I control my inner resentment? My rational brain knows why this is happening. My heart is crushed daily when she leaves.

2) We did the ENQ. according to hers...I met 4/5. The only one i was not meeting was affection. And of course right now she is not open to it. What are my best steps to approach this? I want to show her affection...and am willing to take the rejection if it comes. I also want to balance it so I am not smothering. SO what is my best method and approach to overcoming this.

She is happy with our sex, my financial support, my honesty, and my family commitment which round out her top five. Their relationship has started on lies (he had another girlfriend he lied about...she caught it...and forced him to end it.). SHe claims they are not having sex (this may actually be true...i believe they are because i have to believe that..it would only make sense, and i don;t want the added shock of being in denial about that) but i do know the cuddling, kissing, sweet nothings are going on. But I caught a text when she was mad at him and she told him she was glad she did not let her guard down and have sex with him...and that was 4 days ago)...in short though what i am saying is...without sex (maybe) and my utter devotion to our family...my exceeding her expectations in finance, and my total commitment to family, i feel he is only MEETING 1 EN. and that potentially gives me encouragement as he will not be able to meet the rest. (he has no job).


3) When she does something that hurts...and she will...right now she is in resentment...and i understand it...what do I do? Is it ok to be trampled on right now? I don;t want to be perceived as a doormat because i know she wants an assertive man who is not weak....is this showing weakness? You see my confusion? I am backing down from everything to TOTALLY avoid LB's, and add as many LU's as I can.

Thanks so much for your reply....i have been feeling a little alone...but I will make sure i am better at getting to the question.

My other real concern is she is only using him as a happiness buffer to leave me permanently...And I want to make sure I do everything to keep that from happening...And would like feedback that I am doing the right things.

Thanks

Have you talked to your doctor about some ADs?

Is he stil married?

I am already on paxil for anxiety disorder...And I use Xanax as needed

Yes he is. .But they are separated with a restraining order. He was arrested for throwing her against a wall and choking her. I can't bring this up....WW knows...But says its not the whole story and the charges are dropping. I don't want to out her defending OM

He also had a girlfriend that my WW forced him to break up with.,

Should I still be attacking the affair?

A real winner.

You did give your wife affection when you danced with her. You can honestly day to her that it hurts you when she goes to see OM and it feels like a knife is turned in you body and to stop seeing him (politely). If she brings you a gift thank her as if you are in the "getting her to date you"phase. Stay in plan a and do something good for you like exercising.

I would like to take solace in the "real winner" comment...But I obviously am not perfect and he is giving her something I cannot.

Any advice for today based on my posts? I am seeking open ended guidance.

Can someones love bank ever be closed for business? I know right now I am stuck in my need for immediate gratification...But is it possible that you can try and deposit love units constantly but they never get deposited?

Thanks

I have been working really hard on myself and my patience. Today has so far been another good day....I think the affair may be catching up with WW.. she may run out of energy for it...She is very tired from leaving here at 9/10 PM and being back at 8Am for the kids. I have a few questions thought

1) I have been sending her love notes and texts...Because it is easier that way right now...And the back and forth can be fun...She hasn't rejected them...But I not really "participating"...When is is too much?

2) Maybe a little personal...But I gave her a hug...Which she lets me do...And got a little butt grab in...She was kinda OK with it...Lol...And then kinds stuck her butt out...Lol...Is it OK to try and make moves on her right now or should I back off? Our sex lives have always been good...But non existence since DDay seven days ago.

3). Can I use her fatigue as an excuse to try and get her to stay the night here? Or let her make her choices and not even mention it?

Thanks so much.

Real questions...Really want the help. Read articles...Downloaded radio app. I am very serious and looking for advice.

I think maybe i started this thread in the wrong way. I started from a place of anger and harsh judgement. Even though i knew better. I just wanted to hurt her back. It just came out...and 100% honesty may not have been there from the start.

I want everyone to know I AM 100% dedicated to this. I have been reading, reading. Exposure was completed and done properly. SHe is suffering those consequences almost daily as a result in our community. It is why it was hard for me but i did it.

She is not angry about that anymore, or as much. She knows this site too. She know what I needed to do.

Today my WW;s OM' XGF sent some texts and outted the OM for still contacting her. He is still texting her and complaining the mistake he made since WW spends most of her time here for the children....so she is ONLY with OM from about 10//11PM till 7AM or so. SO they spend most of their time asleep...and I think it is wearing on him and making him regret HIS decisions. Cant lie...I wished internally it would end it. I don;t think it will yet...she sees this pragmatically somehow...that even though her relationship with him is only surface...it still makes her feel good when she is in it.

I sent a request for Dr Hartley's coaching. I am fighting nothing. My marriage has no pricetag. This is the love of my life and i will do anything to save it right this time.

So answers and your words will go a long way to helping me. I truly am all in.

The answer is still plan A. It doesn't work overnight. If this is salvageable, it is a marathon and not a sprint.

The thing that I am most concerned about, is your history. You had an affair, she has had an affair in the past and now again.

Try to meet her needs (and not your own, like SF if she isn't into it). Her lovebank is closed to you as long as the affair is active, so you will not be able to deposit much. Some of it might trickle through.

Keep yourself together, no angry outbursts, no arguments. Can you do that? Or do you need help from a doctor? Exercise, walk, keep yourself occupied.
No relationship talk. Just broken record, if she complains it is hard "yes, your affair is hard on me too, do you want coffee?"
Since she knows the program, she knows your plan. That might be a disadvantage.

Thank you...yes...I am getting very good at avoiding angry outbursts. I have avoided LB's for at least three days now. And we have gotten along fine. Our history concerns me too. But I believe i know the reasons and my role in it as well as hers. We came here for recovery...but never came back to keep it that way. Laziness, and even if plan A works...I will not commit without a final committment to this.

1) I have been sending her love notes and texts...Because it is easier that way right now...And the back and forth can be fun...She hasn't rejected them...But I not really "participating"...When is is too much?

2) Maybe a little personal...But I gave her a hug...Which she lets me do...And got a little butt grab in...She was kinda OK with it...Lol...And then kinds stuck her butt out...Lol...Is it OK to try and make moves on her right now or should I back off? Our sex lives have always been good...But non existence since DDay seven days ago.

3). Can I use her fatigue as an excuse to try and get her to stay the night here? Or let her make her choices and not even mention it?

I actually have now noted you may have answered some of that...sorry..sometimes a thick headed man. :-)

My wife may be stuck here tonite due to snow....I am actually in a PANIC...I don't know what to do with that.

Nope she's leaving...Not before telling me I am smothering and stalking and she doesn't want anything from me.

Yeah...Have to adjust...I am trying to find the happy medium between being the man she wants and too much.

Anyone have any suggestions to find that balance?

Have you written Dr. Harley?

Have you been listening to MB Radio? I'm not familiar with your thread, but one thing Dr.H mentioned the other day to a husband in plan A was about approach-avoidance conflict. Paraphrased: When she's far from you she might miss you but once closer, the annoyances stand out. So, in my words, Plan A requires emotional grit and the patience of Job.

I put in a request for coaching...Should I write him separately?

I just started yesterday. Thanks

I am sorry...I am looking...how do I do this directly?

So I sat the wife down to go to to tell her i was thinking about plan B. I wanted it to end in kindness. Now it won't...I fear she will hate me. Things got said. I probably made a huge mistake.

I tried plan A for a week. I know that probably isn't long enough. But it is tearing me apart. How can I continue to Plan A if the resentment is building up in me so hard an so fast that I can;t handle it? According to Dr Hartley's words I cannot. I have been nothing but kind to her...but I am weak. I can;t help but feel like a sucker...because the only time she cries over any of this is when she feels she may lose money, or time with her kids. It makes me feel like a paycheck and she gets to go do what she wants. Which is EXACTLY what plan A is doing....but it is killing me.

I sat her down and talked about legal separation. She wanted to know what that would look like. I told her as far as the kids go, no changes...I want her to have full and ample access to the kids. I do not want to hurt her. I did tell her that since she is now living with OM...and they rented a car together...I can prove domestic support and there will be no alimony. I did not do this as a threat. I just do not want it to get ugly later and want her to know what to expect. And I am trying to live by radical honesty.

So even though i sat her down, to let her know I was thinking about plan B because it hurts too much...now she hates me. She thinks I am a [censored] who is just out to hurt her. And I am only considering this because i feel hopeless with our history.

What do I do?

Am I completely off base here?

I want to fix this...but do I get to protect MY heart?

Jimbo,

you are all over the place and not thinking clearly right now whoch is understandable. Don't talk about your relationship or of divorce/separation if you want to save the marriage.

You have every right to call it quits, buttalking eith her about separation is not going to do the love bank any good.
Come here to reflect on your strategy and think such things over at least for a few days before you have such a conversation again. Threatening plan B to motivqte the spouse is not MB

I now understand that....Now she thinks I am vindictive and just want to punish her. And I see her point. She told me if I wasn't all over the place...She would have ended her A already. Then she said that what I said ruined any chance of hope ever...And told me file for the divorce...She needs to get remarried...Even if it to an [censored] that lies to her...At least he won't ruin her life.

Boy I screwed up....What do I do now? Thinks come out of my face...And I am not doing plan A well...And she may be spending more time away now that I did this anyway.

This sucks...It's hard. I just get caught in the moment and don't have time to think...And I respond without thinking 10 moves down the chess board. I am hurt and responding out of hurt.

Plan A is not about you. It is not about being subservient to a wayward spouse. It is about saving your children's family in the long term. They may thank you one day for staying strong.

And even if you would not want to reconcile, you would not want OM to parent your children, would you? That is what you are fighting for. Not for your right now personal gratification, but for what you will wish you would have done 10 years from now. So that you will hold your head up high and say to yourself you fought for what is right.

Sometimes all you want to do...easier said then done.

True...I have to have more patience with the forum...I come here for help..and sometimes it is not as forthcoming as I had hoped (i know, a bit selfish...but i am freaking out admittedly). I am going to try a session with Dr. Hartley...and I would like to write him a letter but have not figured out how.

And you may have to get some short term anti-anxiety medication from your doctor if you are not in control of yourself. (Not more then ~2 weeks).

It can sometimes take a while for someone to answer becaus people posting here have regular lives, careers and families that have to be managed. Also many posters are in different time zones.

But it does concern me that you seem very unsteady in sticking with the plan, because you are following your feelings, that are not to be trusted right now.

If you where in an airplane, would you rather have the pilot follow his feelings, or the compasses and instruments in the cockpit?

Thank you. I AM all over the place. It is plus 8 days....I am temporarily taking Xanax to calm me.

Thank you for the pilot metaphor. That does help. I am trying. Sometimes my emotions slip out...And right now...Because her love bank is closed tonl me...I have no leeway. Right now...She is in a place where she does not trust me...And I put her there.

What do I do now?

How do i desensitize myself to the A so it does not get such a reaction out of me?

You should see your doctor about getting the xanax dosage adjusted, or to try another medication. It's not working. You are not calm. And to do a proper Plan A, you MUST remain calm.

Never, EVER threaten Plan B or divorce. When you do that, you have basically set off a nuclear bomb in the middle of her lovebank, and she will hate you even more. Women need security, and a husband threatening divorce to get his own way destroys all security. It will set you back to square one.

Understand....Thank you. Sqaure one is OK this time...As long as I can learn from it and try and avoid it. I really do love her and do not intend to hurt her. I will seek the advice of my physician to help.

See your doctor and get different meds! What you are on is not working.

Jimbo,

You may write to Dr Harley and Joyce at this email address to get advice --->
mbradio@marriagebuilders.com

If you are struggling to keep things in order I'd suggest you go the extra mile and get a counseling session with their son Steve Harley here --->
Coaching Center

I am willing. Thank you.

I want to make a post just so people understand me a little.

When I was three...my parents went through a BITTER divorce. Up until I was 6...it was a constant tug of war with us kids. Their was violence. My step dad used to pull guns on my mom...used to smack her and us around. Used to put us in the basement with a circle on the wall in chalk. If we got any on our nose, we got a beating...and we would have to stand there for up to 4 hours.

WHen I was 6. My dad got custody. I did not see my mom for another 30 years again. My dad always seemed like a reluctant parent. He was an angry man...dyed in the wool military. Very strict. It got so bad...when I was 8 and my sister was 14, she left. Never came home....and most of us still have very little contact with her...at her decision.

I have had 2 marriages before. The second divorce, I lost a stepchild i cared deeply for.

The third major relationship...we had 2 kids...but i was marriage shy. She was very abusive and a serial cheater. Broke my hand. WHen i finally made her leave...she left with my children. I was broken. She used the children as pawns...she made them hate me. She did everything in her power to abuse me when they were around and when i called. Eventually I gave up. And their stepfather adopted them. I let it happen. I justified it as "it was better for the children not to suffer through this anymore".

When my current WW and i had been together 3 years. We lost a son. Noah Riley. He died two weeks before he was due and he had to be induced. We watched him be born lifeless, and held him and said goodbye. I was broken again. How hard this was on us. I think we only thought we made it through it...because history is prologue.

I told myself....I will never lose again. I think all this reaction out of me is coming from a place of utter fear. It is a reaction to all I have allowed to happen in my past. I want to trust her with my heart, but even if she never takes it from me again, I want to trust her with our separation. I have been played the fool before in my effort to keep the peace while behind my back a lot was happening to take my children away....even being put in arrears a year in child support becasue i did not take legal steps to protect myself.

Now I am in a position again.

I want so bad to save my marriage...to TRULY save it this time. But my inner sucker keeps speaking in my ear....if you don;t do something...she will....and it scares the living crap out of me.

Please don;t take this as a woe is me....it is not meant to be. It is meant to understand the utter fear i have of losing again. And how that sometimes controls my reactions subconsciously.

I am trying to get a handle on it. I am seeking help. I have signed up for coaching, i will write the letter.

Thanks for hearing me out.

Will you see your doctor? Your meds aren't working.

Yes...I am.

Xanax can cause paradoxal reactions sometimes, where you get more agitated rather than relaxed and you can't combine it with alcohol.
Just talk with the doctor about your situation so that (s)he can work out a good solution with you, to get you through the first blows of this crisis.

On the other hand, you have survived until now, notwithstanding breakup pain in the past. You have learned and will sensibly consult with your lawyer how to protect yourself, while at the same time working on saving your marriage.

Importantly, you do NOT want to save your marriage at all cost.
You are prepared to build a wonderful marriage with your wife, one that is much much better than before. But you will not settle for anything less than a wonderful MB marriage. You will not be married at al cost and it doesn't make sense to do so because it wouldn't last.

Thank you for that...I want to save it despite expenses to do so :-)

OMG so.much sense...I am sabotaging myself with a depressant...I usually take it for anxiety...And conflated my feelings...Wow.

Did you make an appointment with your doctor?

Office was closed yesterday...yes I am calling this morning.

So in all my reading....this is the realization i have finally come to. I am getting control of my emotions and have stopped the Xanax...giving my all to my work, house, and children, and what I need to do.

SO here goes.

I have to let her go. She is not open to me right now. My course right now is to let her go and be the best me I can be. I have to let her go to try and become the best her she can be.

Once we have become the best individuals we can be...if the world is one in which we are supposed to be together. Then we will fall in love with the better selves. If not, we will be our better selves and in a much better position to end on good terms.

Do I have this about right? Because this is how i intend to now move forward.

Thanks

OMG...Just met the boyfriend...Coming here to breathe. Can't react.

How do people do this? Lol

HOW in the world did that happened? Was it on purpose or accidental? Surely she didn't bring him around?

OMG...Just met the boyfriend...Coming here to breathe. Can't react.

How do people do this? Lol

How did that happen?

I sure hope you gave him a piece of your mind.

Will you be leaving your wife to the graces of this worm.
Or will you fight for your family?

She came by the house to grab something. She had him bring her. He did not come in...but i noticed her van was not behind the house. Looked out front...found him...walked right up to his truck.

I am NOT a violent man...I will NOT have a violent conflict. My children mean too much to me to allow it.

But I said to him:

ME: "You have any courage?"
HIM: "Plenty"
ME: "Then look me in the eye and know the pain you have caused me...the father who;s heart you have broken....the pain of the family you are ruining."
HIM: Nothing...wouldn't look at me...no words.

I could have been angry....and I was angry with her for doing it. I felt that she set this up...maybe subconsciously...but surely anyone with a brain knows THIS was not a good idea and would hurt me.

But I felt a little satisfaction in how little of a man he was. How not proud of himself he was...how he was not able to look me in the eye. I have an opinion of men who steal married women....and they are less than pond scum.

That seems loaded. If I am truly in Plan A...am I not leaving her to the graces of this worm until she decides otherwise? I thought this WAS the plan to fight for my family. To be the best me I can be...and hope she finds her way back to me.

If not...what do I do? I don;t know what to do BUT set her free to him. Anything else right now causes anger...and of course she is closed to me right now and offers no signs of encouragement which i have read and learned not to expect.

SO please explain this....the 2 seem to conflict to me.

I think you did very well to confront him. Dr Harley encourages men to do it if they can without landing in jail.
You obviously remained calm and focused and confronted him with dignity. You couldn't have done better if you had planned it.

Sorry, I probably misinterpreted you earlier post about letting go as giving up on plan A and all.

Thank you for that. I cried reading it. You don;t know how much you validated my day.

What now? I need insight to move forward.

Ok...I will phrase it in a question. I had an affair back before we were married...it is here...in these forums.

During our recovery...I gave her hope...I spent time with her...I was confused and hurting her...but i was actually TRYING to find my way back to her.

Everything i seem to do following this plan has driven her closer to him.

Exposure...horrible...she withdrew.
Trying to decide our fairest Plan A....she withdrew...closer to him...started spending every night at his house instead of here now that it was out and known.

Confronting him - she accuse ME of being immature and is mad at me again.


Where do I find hope when everything seems to be driving her further into her A? What do I find to hold onto?

This is where i am struggling.

This beauty of MB, jim, lies in its simplicity.

Here are your answers:

1) Ignore her fogbabble. She's having an affair and she's lost her mind. Don't try and make reason out of it, and don't ruminate over what she says.

2) Kill the affair. This is the only way you have a chance of getting her out of the fog. Kill the affair, and the fog will lift.

3) Exposure and confronting the POSOM were two steps you took to doing #2 above. Don't despair you took those steps even though they were hard. This isn't an easy program to follow, but it's effective.

4) Stay in Plan A. Make your love banks deposits, don't excuse the affair, and stick it out. It's a process and it takes a lot of time and a lot of strength.

I exposed and I confronted. What else can I do to kill it? Trust me...I would love to. I don't know how.

The answer is in Step 4. Fill her love bank, even if it is from a distance. Stay in touch with her without suffocating her. Look for opportunities to meet her needs, send her love notes, and text her thoughtful tender messages. There will come a time when she gets sick or needs help. Be there for her. This doesn't go on forever. We don't encourage that you enable her to cake-eat. But Plan A does inform her that you have changed, you will be a great husband who has learned his lesson, and you will provide a safe landing when the affair crashes and she hits rock bottom.

Thank you. I would like to keep using this to blog my experience and ask advice when I can. I have a session with Dr Hartley for Wednesday to try and gain perspective.

She lets me give her a hug when she arrives...And when she leaves. She tells me she doesn't know why she lets me. I just say...Cause you care. And that's it. She also does not want me to separate our lives. She does not want me to plan b. She is here 90% of the time from 8Am to 9pm. For the kids. I try to use it to my advantage.

Here is the final question for now. The have your cake and eat it to. Because she is here except nights..I have to call it plan A...She sleeps there...But this is home base. So I am paying all the bills. She does not work.

How is this not having her cake and eating it too? Am I enabling her affair? I waffle between being taken advantage of...And her not wanting to separate finances as a sign she does not want to have permanent damage to our position together in life. She tells me it's not about money...But honestly...Without it...She would either not see him or not see the kids ..I don't want to make her make that choice. So I continue. But how do I KNOW and trust she doesn't want permanent damage instead of using me?

Also...She keeps saying A is not about OM...She just wanted to be done with me and didn't have the courage to do it alone. She could give or take him. So she says. How do I process that...What is her fog really saying?

Fog justification babble. Ignore it.

Craziest things Waywards say

After the exposure to her OM today. I chose to continue my confrontation with him. He had threatened me via text before...so I figured...got his number.

I told him what kind of man i thought he was. I told him he was small and insignificant and a distraction for my wife while she is confused and harboring resentment to me...but my love is real and don;t get comfortable. That ANY man that would mess with another man's wife is lower than pond scum and not worth even cleaning off my boot. That the fact that he could not look me in the eye means I know his shame. And he does too. And i hope he lives inside the man he is forever.

Maybe not the most mature....but it felt ******* good. And I needed that. Maybe sacrificed a little of that prior dignity. But its all the things you wish you could say....and i was done bottling it. I needed it out.

I did make the mistake though today of showing her more evidence of his violent nature. His wife (yes..they are not divorced yet) talked about the abuse and how he threatened her to get off with just a NCO and not assault charges. I am realizing that trying to point any of this out is just like trying to tell a Trump supporter that he sucks. "I can shoot a man in the middle of 5th avenue and wouldn't lose any supporters" kind of philosophy. She denies it and then defends him "I don;t care what anyone says...this man treats me good and that's all that matters"

Then she told me..."if you two keep this up i will walk away from you both and leave you both with your **** in your hands. DO I have to run away from everyone in the world even my kids to get some peace."

i guess that drove the point home. She is hurting too. She ran to him because she is hurting. I don;t think my reaction today was out of line...so I think today was expected. But I just have to back off...be myself...completely extricate myself from the A...i have done all I can....and move on and just be here to pick up the pieces. These are HARD lessons to learn.

apples...thanks for the link...it;s encouraging....I wish i knew how many of the people that heard these things had a marriage survive it. I look for signs of hope.

I now have the weekend alone. Kids are gone tonite at friends and tomorrow for a Mall Lock in with the Girl Scouts (mom is a leader...(at least one night i know she is not with OM :-) )

So i will come here often. I find peace here amongst those who have walked in my shoes.

Sometimes....i know i am not asking questions...but your words of encouragement help....and sometimes...please ask me tough questions. I don;t even know if I know everything i need to reflect on.

Thanks!

Oh yeah....she does laundry and takes showers here to go to him. Should I tolerate this in Plan A?

You did expose to the OM's BW, correct?

Also, about the money, you aren't giving her money to facilitate her affair are you?

I did...She didn't care...She hates him...Has a non contact order from when OM beat up BW back in December. She moved 4 hours away and still gets threatened to this day. He had a girlfriend too....My WW broke THEM up via text.

As far as money. I am in a plan A. She has full access to the house...Kids...And 2 credit cards in her name...I pay all the bills. If I cut her off...She will get mad and stay with him..And then I force a decision between her and her kids? I mean...If I am in Plan A...I still provide all the marital financial support. So yes...In essence...She gets to do what she wants.

Added. I just looked at her credit card statements and activity. She has spent nothing on him. I can account for everything she has spent is either on the kids or meals here or incidentals. Maybe a tank of gas over the course of 9 days.

I did make it clear i was not financing the affair. Looks like so far she is respecting that.

The hardest fogbabble is the whole...they can't commit to breaking up with you entirely...but won't break off the affair either. Playing both sides of the coin...my WW will say in anger to get the divorce. But when i cancelled her authorized user accounts on MY credit cards..."Oh...you are ruining my life..you are doing everything to separate us...not me...i need time...and you are just in such a rush" Yeah right. Kinda thought that what you were doing to us was separating us.

But about the showers and laundry....??

Well...I got her to laugh.

I was standing outside with my 12 yo daughter today and out of the blue she said

"Dad...If you get a new girlfriend...Don't get a prostitute...My freinds' dad did that and it was a mess"

Am I shameful for sharing that with my WW just to get her to smile from something I shared? Yes...I used it for that purpose...It worked...It's all I got right now.

WW is now wearing a ring from OM.

I tried to kill the affair. It only got stronger. I didn't react. I am controlling that now ..Have to show just kindness and no DJs.

What do I hold onto? I feel so desperately I need some sign of hope.

I have another question:

I have it on good authority that at some point the newness will wear off for OM and then he will start making selfish demands. He will not want to share her with WW's children and then he will start wandering. He has this history. Through exposure...I have spoken to BW and BGF and learned a lot.

In an effort to KILL the affair, is it reasonable for me to request that since i am providing ALL financial support, that she provide 50% of the support of the children.

Mind you..she is here every morning and evening, but I would like to request she spend every other night and every other weekend here...sleeping her...to give me a break...so i have those periods of downtime.

Is this an unreasonable request that will only cause trouble?

If it is not unreasonable...what is the best way to do it?

Thanks!

Letter I wrote.


Hi again.

I know you think that I don't matter right now...I know you are in the fog of an affair that feels good. So I expect nothing to really sink in right now.

I hope you see I am being careful not to hurt you and trying to do for you what I can. No resentment...No hurt. I know the previous 9 days have been a Rollercoaster. I know you know deep down I had to go through my stages of grief to get to a better place.

I want you to know that I have forgiven you. That all I want is to move forward. You and I both came from broken homes. Look what it has done to us. That pain that came from that are major players in where our own relationship is today. And deep down you know that.

Please don't make us another statistic. Please don't make us do this to our kids too. Let us rise above. Let us be better people than those that raised us. Let us try. We know we haven't done it right. I know in your fog right now you think that I just wasn't here for you. I get that. But you also need to get that you never let me give you 100%. And you never gave me 100%. Think about how much stronger we can be if we try.

It's not just that. I want the best for you. I am going to follow MB 100% because if I don't...Even if I move on from you...I will keep repeating my mistakes. Over and over...And never truly be happy. If not with you. I will use it for someone else. But for you ..And for me...And for our family. I want to walk the road with you

You are my everything. My moon, my sun, my air. I suffocate without you. It feels like someone died. This is why you get such a reaction out of me. My hurt hurls around me like an all encompassing whirlwind of pain. And that is a LOT to deal with.

I am not asking you to do anything right now. It would be selfish and an unreasonable expectation for myself to hold on to.

I just want you to think...And then I want you to watch what I am willing to do and put up with to save us

Read this. It is me. It is your love. I have read your posts now. You loved me once. That person and so much more is here waiting for you.

Love always

Do not send this letter. I am busy today but will try and help later this weekend.

Thanks

What you have learned includes the fact that this man is a wife beater and a total loser. There is no way your wife can have a lifelong, successful relationship with someone with his history.

You are like rob. Basically, what you need to do is wait for the affair to die. It won't necessarily die this weekend or this month, but essentially, she has no future with him.

Wait this out, and as I said to rob, stop interpreting every little nuance of what she says and does.

I didn't bother reading this all the way through, because it opens with such horrendous disrespectful judgements, and continues with attempts to educate her. Stop it. Don't write any letters at all. You are far too emotional and you'll do more harm than good.

I gave up reading after that opening sentence. Are you actively trying to tick her off?

Not at all. She is been on marriage builders too...And understands all this. I guess I was taking that for granted...But I get your point.

I was trying to get my point across that I understand, I forgive, I want to move forward, I love her, and I will be here for her

I guess maybe i was being a bit self righteous about it?

I really am trying to learn.. so give it to me hard and straight

Also...I do have a Dr appointment Monday to address my rollercoaster...Wrote Dr Hartley a letter...And have a session for Wednesday. I am just trying to take action. I feel like sitting still is what got me here.

My biggest regret is my initial reaction. I wish I had taken the time to do spyware etc ahead of time. I have a trust issue sitting back hoping she doesn't make the first move toward divorce. It makes me feel vulnerable. As much as I don't want to see anything. It would have been nice to track those intentions.

This is not a waffle in my position....I am all in...But was married twice before and have been played the sucker to keep the peace. This nags at me is all.

I do not think she is that vindictive...But the fog is what it is...Scary stuff.

How do you keep the doubts at bay? Some days I just want to end this all it is so painful. Then i love her and want to fight.

It is so difficult to control the doubt.

I hired a PI to collect evidence just in case....is this a wise move or a step too far?

Hiring a PI to collect evidence is not a step too far. Collect evidence.

But don't be sending her any letters until you have your meds adjusted AND you've talked to Dr. Harley. Your emotions are still all over the map, and you need to get them under control.

Thank you. I am working on that.

Problem is...I don;t even know what to think and reflect on...like i don't know what i don't know.

I have been helping her out...i still support her...been writing her love letters (not like above...just memories and why i love her)

Sometimes R talk comes up...i try to walk away.

I send her little texts to tell her i hope she has a great day and I love her.

Trying to stick to kindness and love units.

I try to be all over the place here...not with her.


And..Dr Monday. Dr Hartley Wednesday.

Jim,
You mentioned that this hooligan has a pattern of wooing women and then turning into a monster once the relationship is established. There are men who operate out patterns like this, and they are 100% predictable. So knowing this, you should be stout-hearted and let your actions flow from these facts. Don't get on the Wayward Roller Coaster. They will draw you in, and before you know it you're latched in and you're hearing, "Enjoy your ride!" No. You must let your Plan A objectives drive you, not your raw emotions.

Your wife's affair is going to crash. And you are going to sober up, be the best husband you can be--strong, firm, loving, and caring--while she takes her journey to a place called rock bottom.

Do not let her see you feeling sorry for yourself. Do not let her see you depressed. Instead, let her see you looking dapper, with pressed shirts and polished shoes. Let her see you cheerful and confident, warm and caring without being suffocating and desperate.

I used to fish, and I would wait patiently knowing that at some point the fish had to eat. Once I got a bite I set the hook. But sometimes I'd have to wait all afternoon. Just be patient and disciplined. You are going through hell, but you have to keep moving forward or you'll never make it out. Stay strong.

Thank you for these words. The hardest thing is trying not to smother...to turn into some crazed stalker. I do want to be me...and I know through this process the end goal is to be a better man for my wife...and to help her recover. I also know if it does not work out..I am just left a better man. I try and keep that.

Having been there myself...i do know this. When we went through mine...i was gone 4 months...although we had contact. So I know...fantasy never turns out well.

Wise words...easier said than done. You may have guessed by now i wear my heart on my sleeve.

Time to put your heart back in your chest and use your head more. Be strategic, man.

Trying.

There is no try; there is only do.

lol...yes Yoda.

I think the hardest thing...Is I failed in this. I have known about MB for 10 years and failed. I have come here a few times and failed.

It is a radical change to a belief system...and I am trying to absorb it all. It gets confusing because some things stray from your own ingrained beliefs and you try to see the new...and embrace it.

My inner self cries out for action. My rational brain reads this and tries to stick to the plan. The 2 are in grave competition and I make mistakes.

The smothering...the need for a sign from a woman in the fog. these are the things i need to get over and control.

Its hard. I will do.

I will take the little signs i can get.

My wife was saying i need to distract myself. And yeah..no kidding...but funny from the most distracted person on the planet.

I told her the only one that can tell me to stop trying to fix our marriage was her.

She said "THIS is why i want you to go out and get a life. You're driving yourself and me crazy."

What i hold onto...is sure..she does not want to be smothered...it interferes with where she is right now. But she cannot tell me to stop. She WON'T tell me to stop.

So I continue...and hold onto the little things.

Her mom used my Netflix. I changed the password so WW could not use my Netflix at OM...as I think i am supposed to.

I forgot about the mom,...i have no ill will there...so i fixed it for now.

She blew up...i mean...bitter rage.

Her last message was to file for the divorce and we can both move on.

God i hate this,

SHe also read my thread and saw the PI thing...wasn't meant to be a move against her.

Sorry guys...i am moving over to the divorce column. All this holding on I have been doing is from the hurt....and knowing in my heart of hearts what is really happening here.

I have been in denial...wanted to believe. I love my wife. But I don;t deserve the hand i got dealt.

I am looking back over everything. I am looking back at how many times she has cheated on me and how little it affected her...and continues to affect her. And I compare it with what I did and how IT DID affect me. Changed everything about how i looked at thins.

I am re-examining the last 16 years. Mostly all I can be thankful for, is three beautiful daughters.

I don;t deserve all the rage against me...the degradation...the constant crisis. I have decided this is no way to live my life.

The last thing she said to me...was she is not using the OM to hurt me...she is leaving me...and he just happens to be there.

That may be the fog....but *** it. I realized I can;t plan A cause too much has been said and done over the last 16 years.

I need to now only work on me. And trust i can find happiness again.

Thank you all for your help.

Jim,

you have every right to divorce.
Your posts though show highly erratic thinking.
I strongly advise you to go see a medical professional with expertise in mental health questions.

If you are going to make important decisions in this crucial time in your life you want to do it from a place of calm thinking.

Agree with Happyheart. You need an intervention at this point. Please consider seeing a doctor or someone who can help you center yourself.

I understand...but its funny...I came to this...and the weight of the world lifted. I am seeing my doctor tomorrow. But I think this is a case where divorce is the only success. I have come to conclude she doesn't have the courage to change. That is my feeling..not a judgement...I own it. But it IS how I feel. And I can't keep walking this road anymore. I will be OK.

My waffling was going from there to here and back. The conviction to just take care of me and my kids and go no contact was a relief. I was the one on the fence. Trying to think through what i wanted. Thinking that knowing marriage builders I could fix anything. It was a silky thought. Some things are broken. And sometimes you need to walk away...and hope you find something else someday. And I will use this now over on divorcing to recover. And I will use this next time I am in a relationship. I still believe it all. I was struggling to hold onto something I really don't want.

The problem, Jim, is that you vacillate from one position to the other on the slightest whim. Your convictions are set by the wind. That's not a judgment but a concern we have for you as you make a life-changing decision about your marriage.

I'm glad you're seeing a doctor tomorrow.

Understand.... I have been vacillating. I am seeing my doctor. I don't think you'll see a change in my position. I will always love the woman I think WW CAN be. But recent events have shown me I want nothing to do with the woman she has become. It would take such radical change...I have doubts she is even capable.

You see....I feel like I have been in plan A for years. She would be angry...she would cheat...I would wait.

So while some may think my plan A was short lived. I feel like it has been long term. Thst the hurt was already too.much for me. This is my plan B. I am cutting it off and pushing her off the fence.

I will always have a place for the woman she can be. But for now..I move forward and heal. This is not as willy nilly as my prior posts may suggest.

What I saw in the last 11 days...was a woman who was emotionless toward me. But would cry at the drop of a hat at the thought of losing anything financially. She proved to me she was using my emotions to keep herself intact.

I admit. It was all too much for me.

You might want to read up on plan B.

I am. I am proceeding with the divorce...but do recognize with radical change I would be open to her at some point...but it would take A LOT. So I am reading it. I just don't have plan A in me anymore.

Thanks.

I can't remember, but did you ever write Dr. Harley?

Yes I did...and have a session Wednesday with him. Got a referral from my Dr this morning for IC

She is hitting rock bottom...it hurts so much to see. She is drinking vodka (never drinks) and started smoking again after 3 years. It hurts to watch her destroy herself.

I am doing me...I can't fix her...I try to tell her I am here for her...but she only focuses on the financial ramifications of our split and seems to care about nothing else. She is bitter...angry....

She is lost right now...and I can't convince her otherwise.

My IC starts Monday.

As far as legal...I can't post here...I want to be able to share everything...but this thread is compromised and she is reading it.

That's with Steve Harley (Dr. Harley's Son), correct? I meant have you written Dr. Harley at the radio show?

Yes I have

I talked to Steve Harley his morning and met with my lawyer.

About the lawyer....I am not pushing for divorce yet...but legal separation for protection of the children. They are not to leave the school district. They are to remain in their home for now (revisited if she ends up with a home) and that they are not to be around OM. Cut and dry. It is about them.

As for Steve. Amazing clarity. He told me to calm down because their is nothing to do. My wife has 2 sister addicts, one clean now, one still actively using. He put it in the perspective of them.

My wife is currently using (OM). This is her drug. This is what is making her feel good right now, and nothing in this world is more important than her next fix. She will step on family, she will blow up her life and other's lives to get this fix. This is something I can understand having dealt with addicts. That until she stops using, she will not see any of the damage she is doing. All is right with her world as long as she has access to her drug (OM). That is very powerful and I cannot compete with that.

He told me to protect myself, but be open to her recovery once she is done using. I know this is not a relationship that is sustainable...so she will eventually have to give up her drug once she comes to her own realization that that is what she needs to do.

I need to take care of myself. And do things to help her trust my sincerity. She got my plan B letter and I am now in plan B. No contact except for kids. But i will take what I can...any steps I can to help her trust me.

I will also let her know that I do not want our old marriage back either...that that old thing is dead. But that I will be open to a discussion about how to make a marriage we can both enjoy, once she is done using.

It is all very hard. But all of you, and Steve, have been very helpful.

I start IC on Monday.

Thanks

Only hard part now...is the unrequited love. Being the only one in it right now. Saying what I say and wanting something in return.

I am getting better with this.

Did Steve H advise you to go into Plan B? Also, it's not Plan B if you have contact with her. Do you have an IM? Did your Plan B letter match the template from here?

Yes...plan B. I do have contact...but its all I can do. He gave me an exercise to do. The letter did follow the template somewhat...I read it to him...he was OK with it.

His advise was sound. In plan to follow it.

I learned to write a letter 3 times. Once in may be upset...second edit better. Third edit good.

Living in my pain now. But getting better at it...And better at distracting myself. I am feeling the depression still...So I have not done me as much as I should...But I am trying to just make a pact with myself to do it.

Steve had asked me to ask WW to speak to him. Even after all her time on here....She does not want to do it. She says she believes in marriage builders but she is beyond it. Which is a bit of an oxymoron to me...Since I think our problems can be worked out if the program is followed. We have had very little contact except for the kids. She got my Plan B letter. I know there is nothing to be done anymore except wait and see and everyday will get a little better.

Sorry to tell you that it isn't Plan B when there is contact between you and WW.

You're in Plan C (which isn't a plan).
BSs Plan C isn't a Plan.....,,,

Did Steve Harley tell you to get an IM while you're in Plan B to communicate with your WW?

We communicate by text. I can't make her leave the house totally by law...And I am pursuing a status quo order with the kids while separated....So is it technically plan A? No...Plan B...No....It just appears to be what I am stuck with for now and have to make the best of.

Problem is...It means she gets her cake and eats it too. She gets the kids...She gets access to the house..She gets to continue the affair. She even asked me to help her find a house...Lol.

She constantly tells me it is not about the affair. That she was leaving me and he just happened to be there. That if that fades away. She is still not coming back. That she was 18 when she met me and does not know how to be on her own and needs to try and gain her Independence. I find this laughable since she still lives off my money...And she still wants my help to find. Home for her.

See....Problems with her leaving. I petitioned the court that the kids can't leave the school district ..And she cannot afford our school district. She has no job...And has not worked in 15 years.

She also obviously does not want to be alone. So I don't buy in to her woman power story. I am not sure where it is coming from.

She is harboring a ton of resentment towards me. I can't figure it out. But what I can say is every day is a little easier than the day before. But having her here every day definitely interferes with my healing.

So she just accidentally texted me what was meant for him. OMG....I don't deserve this. So I have gone deeper towards plan b. We will now only communicate via ***EDIT*** and I blocked her text messages. It will keep a record for court.

Seems extreme...But I need boundaries to heal...And I only have about a 1% confidence she will ever come back. So these are my new steps to protect me

She also changed her credit card password. Told her if I can't see it and account that it is for the house or kids...I can't pay. She changed it back....Lol

I am getting better at not reacting except smartly and getting. Closer to acceptance. It is what it is. Plan b is about me. And a CONVERSATION if she ever wants back. But I know now it is about moving forward.

Did you get your doctor to adjust your meds?

Jim, you really need to get into a real Plan B. You are calling what you are doing "Plan B," but it isn't. You need to get an IM that can facilitate contact with your WW, so that you don't have to. That website is not a substitute for an IM -- it might could be used BY an IM, but shouldn't be used by you.

Its focus seems to be coparenting, which Dr. Harley does not recommend. Have you read about parallel parenting? That is what Dr. Harley recommends, and works wonderfully for parents who are in a real Plan B.

If your WW will move out if you help her find a place to live, help her find a place to live! Make it your last ditch effort at Plan A. Nicely help her pack, help her move, give her the Plan B letter and then shut that door. You are in Plan C right now, and it will not work to save your marriage OR save your sanity.

Parallel Parenting

Lawyers orders to maintain status quo. She is still on the lease I can't kick her out. She is still their mother and a status quo order has us shared parenting. I cannot change this until more is finalized in a potential divorce which I believe is most likely. After she accidentally texted me what was meant for her boyfriend today...I shut down all contact except through shared parenting website. I have to see her. I don't have hope for the marriage anymore because we are stuck for now. My lawyer wants her to stay in this limbo....Because as long as I am supporting the marital home...I owe her nothing else. Divorce will be delayed as long as possible. Maybe at some point. This will become easier ..It is starting to...But admittedly is still torture. Only 16% of all marriages end amicably. I can only hope for that. I am not being unkind...I am just being nothing.

I have found a small support group that I talk to and I spend as little time near her as I can. It's helping.

I want you to know....I hear what you are saying. But I have to be smart legally too...And I have to end up favorable in the eyes of the court for the kids and everything so I am following his advice. I did talk to Steve Harley about all this. He is aware. Said he understood the situation. But I think I have given up hope for this. I think a point cones where you look back at everything. And it becomes just you and your kids...And she can kiss my a**. Sorry...That's just where I am right now. I want to peacefully let her dig herself deeper. I need to protect myself and my children now...Nothing is about her anymore.

Update...Divorce will be filed this week. I am moving on and every day is easier. She is actually making it easier. LBing and being so abusive to turn my hurt into anger and hate. I don't reciprocate. Their is nothing left for me to say. I let her go and she will make her choices. I am done with it.

So I will move to divorcing. I thank you all for your help. I will use MB to build my next relationship into one I can have forever. I decided I deserve better. If you look over all our threads...It was obvious what was happening really should not have been surprising. After I read them all...And some other Info revealed...She is a serial cheater and cheated 7/16 years minimum. I was blind. I saw our one major recovery as something that would last a Lifetime and believed she understood MB and it's principles. I didn't fully though...And she didn't at all. I have learned so much through all this and I will do my best to carry it forward into my future.

Thanks

Good luck with it all jim,be strong.My friend has just gone through a divorce and he has his 3 kids and a new girlfriend.He has never been happier.He said if you asked him 8 months ago if he would take his wife back,he would have.But not now.By the look of it mine is going the same way.I wish you all the best.cheers rob

Thanks Rob...you too!

She got engaged. Lol...All I can do is laugh now. It's so ridiculous.

How are you jim,any news?and are you coping well?