I probably don't even need to post more than the subject line and most of you can figure out where this one is going. And a weekend is a bad time on MB to need some advice, 2x4's swung with significant force, or just a good butt-chewing in general, finished with an "I told you so."

While the chances of what I fear most happening are statistically around 30% or less, I may have just screwed up the rest of my life. Yay for me! Good job LL (or whatever my new name is)...said with much sarcasm. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

I just read the post about BS's and validation from the opposite sex. In hindsight, I'd say yes, I felt pretty much like I was a nothing for a good share of my marriage and definitely when my XH walked out for a younger, sexier woman. But I didn't realize how much I desired to know that I was still desirable until I allowed myself to get into a very stupid situation and emotions overtook any kind of logical thinking and I became a complete idiot. Forget brakes. Forget boundaries. Forget any kind of thoughts of what God might want for me or require from me as a Christian (can I even call myself a Christian at this point, if I walked into this full-well knowing it was wrong?)

You've figured it out by now, right? Just that it didn't happen with the guy who I was originally concerned about (Mr. 2x married). It was the other guy--the one I debate with--the one I share absolutely no important beliefs with.

Lesson #1 was don't date attractive guys. Okay, so fixed that by letting that one go. Now lesson #2 is don't date guys who debate and challenge me. It is rare for me to back down from a challenge--I think it's sort of the excitement factor. And in most areas of life that's not a big deal. But in the sexual arena, it is. I should have gotten up and walked the moment he started crossing lines beyond kissing. I had stated my boundaries. But I didn't leave, because it felt so darned good and comfortable and it had been so long, and I didn't realize how much I missed all those feelings until they started coming again.

Now I find myself feeling really lousy because I am a sinner in a huge way, I now have someone else I have to tell any potential future partner about, I'm not even in a committed "I want to be with this guy forever" relationship, there can always be the STD issue, and yeah, here's the doozie....

Because I had no intentions of SF outside marriage, I hadn't even given protection or birth control a second though. At the time I actually started thinking about it, it was too late. Timing was very bad for this to happen. I can only hope the statistics of women's fertility declining in their late 30's to be correct.

In a nutshell, I am just this side of totally terrified. Let me paint the 'what if' picture I've been painting all morning.

"LL (or whatever her name is now) finds herself in a couple weeks PG with Guy #2's child. She is adamantly against abortion--would never consider it in any circumstance. Guy #2 isn't ready for children, nor can she picture herself actually in a permanent relationship with him as her spouse because of all the differing beliefs. So, LL could find herself going through a very difficult PG alone (with her heart arrhythmias and turning 40 soon, thinking this could be a physically dangerous situation). And to further complicate things, women at age 40 have a 1 in 100 chance of having a child with Down's Syndrome and the chances of other birth defects are lots higher as we age, too.

So, here I could be, alone, with a handicapped child, two teenagers (one very difficult one), an ex-husband who can't help by parenting his own children, a mother who suffers clinical depression and has gambled away all her money, and a father with Alzheimer's (I am already taking care of most of my parents' finances...couldn't expect them to be any kind of support for me nor would I be comfortable with them in that role if it did happen).

So, I thought I was alone now. I didn't realize just how lucky I was. The thought of being alone for the rest of my earthly existance (because no one would touch the above situation with a 20' pole!) raising a baby who has a reasonable chance of being handicapped, by myself, scares the you-know-what out of me.


And know what...it would just be fitting punishment for my being so damned stupid!!!

Whack away! I'm not the person I thought I was. I'm really not sure who I am right at this second.

And sadly, I have met via email (before this all transpired) a guy who seems very nice and well-grounded from eastern Iowa. It was actually by accident--I just stumbled onto his profile and he had a couple vacation photos that were really pretty, and I simply sent an email commenting on the pictures, because I like photography. He then viewed my profile, was interested enough to email back, and we've written like crazy for the past week or so. We've talked 2x on the phone, our first telephone conversation was 189 minutes long. He shares a past very similar to mine--married young, socialized little--in fact sort of socially backward, had kids young, wife left him 5 years ago after meeting a younger guy and getting involved with him. He shares my beliefs, we've talked at length about our faith and our testimonies. He's in special ed and has some great insight about my daughter's issues because she's the type of teen he deals with on a daily basis. And he's 9 credits and a dissertation short of his doctorate in his field. He's really intelligent.

And he would like to drive to my city and meet me this week in person. What the heck am I supposed to do?!?! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Erm, yo, you're supposed to get to a doctor, right now, today.

If you could be about to become pregnant (no way it's implanted yet and a good chance it's not fertilized yet), get in there right now, this second, and get yourself a proper physical to give what might happen the best chance it has.

From the sound of it, this may not be an option you'll consider, but if the morning-after pill is something you would consider, you have got to make that decision TODAY. And you need competent medical advice to make that decision. NOW. If fertilization has not happened yet, there may still be a chance to stop it.

And even if you won't consider that route, as I said, get in there NOW and make sure that whatever happens, you're giving it the best possible chance.

LL,

I will not give you the 2X4, as it sounds you are doing quite a huge job of that yourself. (I wouldn't have anyway)

I agree with MOS, please go to the doctor. Be checked for STD's for sure, and see what else you need to do.

Your not a horrible person.
We are human, we can be weak, and we do make mistakes. Try to forgive yourself.

I'm sure your head must be spinning right now. Take some deep breaths and go to the doctor.

As far as the new guy. I think you should be all means try to meet him. Do not let this incident stop you from possibly meeting someone that could be so wonderful.

Take care of yourself.
Karona

All God's children are imperfect. Remember what Jesus said to the people who wanted to stone the woman. "Let the one among you who is free from sin cast the first stone."

Get to the doctor. Share your concerns. Learn from your mistakes. That's all.

If you really think you need a cluebatting, I'll be happy to give you one AFTER the immediate biological emergency is handled. :P

But for now, doctor time, and let us know when you get back.

Hey hun. I'ts OK, and we're here for ya. I've been concerned about ya, since you haven't posted lately. I should have known somethin was up! I certainly understand the laundry list of "what-ifs", but be smart, and get thee to a Dr. to calm your fears. Everything will be OK. Keep talking to us, k?

((((((lordslady)))))))

P.S... what day of the month is it for you? You're most likely to get PG between 12-18. Does that help? Or make you more nervous? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

MOS, you are right in that I would consider the morning after pill a form of abortion with respect to my situation. Believe me, I've thought it, read up on it, and thoght on it some more.

And honestly, even if I did think it was an option, at this point I'd only have about 10 hours to get the darned pills taken before I'm beyond the 72 hour period anyway. This little incident happened about 48 hours ago. I've just been mulling things over in my mind, scared to even post to all of you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

As for the STD's, at some point I will be tested. Because I do know a little about this guy--it's not he's a virtual stranger--I'm not as concerned with those kind of things as I am the PG right now.

I know it doesn't usually happen the first time you go without protection, but my son is living proof that it can happen. The only thing I'm banking on is that I was 19 then and in the peak of my fertility. I'm hoping that's decreased in the last 20 years.

What if I'd meet this other guy and then 10 days from now find out that I'm pregnant from my major screwup? What kind of a heel would I be then?

And in general...I just can't get past the thought of how fitting it would be for someone who's big fear in life if being alone forever could actually come true because SHE DID IT TO HERSELF! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

(I know...trust in God. But God has no obligation to pull me out of this one. I went against his will. I'm not sure he can even hear my prayers right now.)

LL

LL:

Your mind is racing - a little bit out of control so please listen to everyone on here. It's important to take care of this "one thing at a time"! Please be diligent. Like everyone says - get to a doc, whether it's at a walk-in health care facility, hospital, GP or etc. Take care of that first. You can get through this, but you have to be proactive. After you've taken care of the physical check-up, get back to us. There are very fine people who care about you on this thread.

FR

Oh, and Faith--day of the month...

That's why I said the timing couldn't have been worse. Try day #14! My only hope is that because I run a shorter cycle, I may have been my most at-risk like 24 hours earlier. From the reading I've done today, it looks like once a woman ovulates, there is only a 12-24 hour window where it can be fertilized before it dies. If I ovulated on more like day #12 (if my 26-day cycle holds true this month--it varies a bit), I might have just dodged the bullet. But I'm seriously thinking the way my life usually works, that I should almost expect the worst.

LL

oops, well, that would make me nervous too. You have to try to relax hun. EVERYTHING will work out. EVERYTHING!!!! No matter what!!!! God will forgive you - all you do is ask. If you are pregnant, what a lucky child!!!! If not, then GOOD LESSON LEARNED!!! If there's STD's, meds and lessons learned....

ok??? yes... there may be some consequences... hopefully only lessons learned, right?

If you're not going to the Dr. right away, go get a PG test. They are supposed to be accurate this soon, aren't they?

Everything will work out. I wish I could give you a hug.

Have you talked to him since?

Faith, you have no idea how much I never wanted to be pregnant again. I love my two kids, but they are the only two I wanted. Granted, I'd accept step kids, but I never wanted to go the pregnancy/delivery route again. It was hard the first times and I was in my 20's.

Yes, I've talked to him. He knows my PG concerns. But he's honest--all he can really say is that the more I talk about it (especially the part about the birth defects risk) the more it freaks him out. He feels he is very shallow but has admitted there are two things he has great difficulty with...elderly people and handicapped kids. I know he's not the only one on this earth like that--my daughter has the very same struggle. But nevertheless, it doesn't bode well for me.

I'm just really scared. And now my sis and kids have showed up at my house, so I have to go make like I'm happy with them. No Dr. visit yet.

And as for the PG test-- a blood test can tell if you're PG within 10 days, so I still have almost 8 days to sit and stew.

LL

I believe the chances are GREATER that NOTHING is wrong. Put your faith in that, k? You're aware of the possibilities. You're prepared to face the responsibility for your actions. Now... think positive until you get some solid answers.

(((((((lordslady)))))

You still need to get to a doctor TODAY.

You may be pregnant. If you are, it deserves the best chance at health, which means you need the best pre-natal care. We all know how important those early days and early cell divisions are. You need to get to a doctor and take care of business right away.

You asked for a cluebat, so here it is:

Your objection to the morning after pill is certainly valid and important. So tell me this, how is it not worse to go ahead with the possible pregnancy and not take the full care of it?

And yay to Faith for bringing up that the odds are in your favor. They are, thank heavens.

I've got a name for you...

How 'bout...hmmmmm....

LordsLady?

Your handle wasn't PerfectWoman...

So that seems good

RBM

RM, thanks for trying to make me feel better. But there are little mistakes, and then there are huge, disasterous, potentially life-altering errors in judgement. This falls in the latter category. It's something that someone who claims to have strong faith and beliefs should never have had to worry about.

I'm making myself paranoid now. And then I read Justpeachy's thread about seriel daters---what the heck am I???? I met 4 different guys within a month, and had multiple dates with two of them. I've been out with this guy a good half-dozen times now, ended up WHERE???? and still am saying, "But I know he and I aren't at all right for each other--too many very important areas where we are at opposite poles with our beliefs" and so I am still entertaining the thought of meeting the one other guy I have been emailing to see if maybe he is more what I'm looking for.

I am screwed up to the max! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Guess dating really wasn't for me. I should have just stayed single and away from guys. Out of sight, out of mine, sort of. Maybe that was God's way of showing me I am supposed to be by myself. That's always been my fear, or my gut feeling anyway. I was calmer and had my act together. I just was lonely...missed having a companion...still had hopes of that Christian husband I've prayed for for so many years, and felt like I was over my ex and ready to try again.

Well, I'm darned well convinced I am over my ex (and he's left a couple very nasty messages in verbally threatening tones lately that just confirm that I made the proper decision to leave him.) But dating, it appears I wasn't ready for. I need to control my emotions more. I let them completely take over after a point.

I called the only clinic in my area that does Saturday walk-ins. They said to come in as soon as possible (assuming I was interested in the morning after pill) because I'd still have til tonight to take it. No way to tell about pregnancy, nor anything to do right now about STDs. I haven't gone in yet. I'm hating myself because I'm so scared of being pregnant and raising a child alone, and of the major health risks that a pregnancy could cause for my heart. I've now gotten to the point where I realize I could actually die from this stupid mistake.

But I think if I took the morning after pill, I'd know if it did its thing, it wouldn't be because it stopped the egg from being fertilized (because if that was going to happen, it's already done), but would be because it kept it from being able to attach (and that's where the abortion idea comes in). I'd never know if I took a life or not. I don't think I could deal with that on top of this.

So I may just wait. As for prenatal care, I'm well-versed in good prenatal care, given that I've had two children of my own and took very good care of myself (short of not giving up caffiene completely), paid attention to Dr's orders, etc. I don't smoke, nor do I drink. I do take Lexapro which might be an issue, but it's not something I can stop cold-turkey anyway, so again it can wait until I find out something next week.

The thing is, the earliest I can possibly find out would be about next Friday, if I could convince a Dr. to do the blood test. And even that is 'iffy'. I am going to end up in a nuthouse before then!

And I feel so far away from God. I am very ashamed, not sure what to say, how to say it, or if he even hears me. (I know, anyone who is an atheist won't understand that comment.) This is a very bad feeling for someone who says they are a Christian. It's the ultimate loneliness.

And I have no one but you guys who I feel comfortable even talking to about this.

LL?

hmmmm... I just don't know what else to say hun. I'm sorry you're having such a hard time with this.

Try to relax your racing thoughts.... pray the Lord's prayers... re-read our posts to you...

Don't make any hasty decisions about anything. You are too emotional. Calm down, and get your thoughts under control.

Sending hugs and prayers your way....

LL,

There is nothing that cannot be forgiven, that first.

Second, have you considered having your tubes tied if you really don't want to have any more children? Since my wife left and it didn't look like she was coming back, I had a vasectomy. Why? I didn't want to worry about kids if and when I got involved in another relationship.

Remember, everything can be forgiven.

HTH,

T

Lordslady, I agree with RebornMan that Lordslady is a fitting name. Yeah, you may have to deal with some serious consequences, but that doesn't remove you from the Lord's love or care.

And He always hears the prayers of a repentant heart. Yours, of course, has gone quite beyond repentance to self-castigation.

He hears. And He heals.

I will, for the time being at least, refrain from expressing my opinion of a "man" who disrespects a lady's explicitly stated boundaries and puts her at risk of severe consequences without any significant risk to himself.

LL,
Each person here that loves and cares about you represents a tiny piece of God's love. So, of course God hears you! And, of course, God loves you.

Please remember the story of the Prodigal Son. When he left his family, he knew that the choices he made, and the behaviors he engaged in were not "right". And yes....he had consequences for his choices and behaviors. BUT, the important thing is that he RETURNED TO HIS FATHER, sins and all! Just as YOU have, even in these very moments. And did his father turn him away...lecture him...say "I told you so!"...give him the silent treatment?????? NO! He dressed him in finery and threw a party, giving thanks that he had returned.

LL...You can not throw away your inheritance so easily! Your Father is waiting to welcome you back into His arms EXACTLY as you are in this moment! You are the Lordslady!! And HE is the first to call out your name in celebration of your return!

well, I am not so refrained, LL you did mess up pretty bad...and I might comment on the whole pre-marital sex issue (again), and apply a solid 2x4, but one of my thoughts is regardless of your poor judgement, this sorry excuse for a man, deliberately violated stated boundaries, and put both of you at risk....you more so. You know all you need to know about this loser, so my advice is 2 things, first he get an std test at first appropriate moment (and you too), and sign a wavier giving you direct access to the results, as well as a follow up Aids test...and second, have absolutely no contact with him anymore (other than arrangeing and exchangeing std results). Whether he is a predator or not is moot, and whether you "encouraged" (and I suspect you are fully culpable) him or not, males have an obligation to protect females, and he sure didn't do so, that is a fatal character defect IMO, nothing can redeem it.

Re your name, you are saved or you are not, only you control that state (salvation is yours to ask for..or turn away from)... hopefully you have been on your knees asking for forgiveness, and the strength to deal with whatever consequences you have earned...If you luck out, and dodge the std/pregnancy/stalker etc. bullets, thank the Lord you were given a second chance, use it well LL, understand what in the heck is missing in your self-awareness and controll that you could be so incredibly stupid. God works in mysterious ways, (been there done that), but if you don't learn this lesson, shame on you....don't run (so to speak), and stop beating yourself up, what is done is done, look to God for the strength and discernment to get through this, you ain't gonna make it on your own.

LL
As an aside...if, if ,if, if,

I have never been comfortable with people who have Down Syndrome. I am a social worker, and that is one population I couldn't work with. When I was pregnant with my sons, I prayed to God that they be healthy, but if not, then please don't let them have Down Syndrome. Anything but that.

Anyhow, my xWS (47yr.old)had an affair with an OW who was 21 years old. She got pregnant. She was 7 months pregnant when I finally confirmed the whole messy affair. My xWS and I had talked about reconciliation. He was clear that he would never give up a relationship with his future child. Didn't feel it would be right or fair to the child. I didn't know if I could accept an OC into my life, but I didn't totally rule it out. I told myself and my xWS that I made no promises. I would take things as they occurred and make decisions about reconciliation as each issue came up. He said he could totally understand that, and could in no way ask or expect me to accept any of the circumstances.

Well, the OC was born......with Down Syndrome. I cursed God! "How could you allow this to happen God? Here I am, willing to consider reconciliation under very difficult circumstances, and now You add this to the situation!!" I was angry....and heartbroken.

My xWS and I spoke openly about our feelings around his son having D.S. I finally decided that I wanted to meet his infant son. My xWS brought him to my house. It came time for the little guy's bottle. I asked to feed him. I took him in my arms, he nuzzled into me, and I gave him his bottle. I fell in love with him! He drifted off to sleep, cuddled in my arms.

I NEVER thought that this would ever be possible on my part..especially under the circumstances. Things did not work out for me and my xWS. But it wasn't because of the OC...or the Down Syndrome. Miracles do happen! And in many ways, the OC was my miracle of love and acceptance!

I'm still at home. I didn't go to the doctor today--I didn't want to tempt myself with the possibility of drugs that could potentially be considered an abortive agent.

I've done a lot of reading--some that sort of comforted me and some that didn't at all. Not trying to be graphic here, but then again, I've pretty much bared everything already. The SF was not allowed to finish--I made him stop before that happened. So although I know it only takes one sperm to cause a pregnancy and that some are there even before that happens, I'm hoping that upped my odds a bit the other way.

I think my main fears right now are: fear of being PG and raising a child alone at middle age with no hope of ever having a man in my life again, fear of what a high-risk pregnancy I'd have given my heart arrhythmias (they appeared years after my last child was born), and the fear of being a single mom to a handicapped child. It does seem overwhelming. But I know I always expect the worst and generally I've been very fortunate in that it didn't happen. The one time it did happen (my husband actually not turning around and coming back to me) has turned out to be a blessing, I think, in most ways.

Addressing you guys:

Faith--I know, there isn't anything more anyone can really do except listen to me vent and try and help me stay focused until this resolves one way or another. I'm a worrier--it's my weakness that I struggle with. And I'm really struggling right now. It's really hard to imagine those images I've conjured up. I can't think of anything I'd like much less than being 40 and pregnant, even if I was in a marriage.

Confused,

Yes, having my tubes tied was the option I was going to pursue should I meet my future partner (assuming I ever met him) and he hadn't already had a vasectomy. I'm just nervous about having it done because of the same aforementioned heart arrhythmias. I'm sure they'd be fine, but I've not been under heavy anesthesia since they appeared in the mid-90's. But at this moment, it's irrelevant.

Gnome,

You and RM are both kinder than I think you should be. I feel very hypocritical right now. I've been blowing on about how I'm going to wait until marriage, and then it takes me one stinking month with a guy to blow that to bits!

I agree that it was wrong of him to not respect my boundaries. And yes, I stated them over and over, right pretty much until the point of no return, with reasons why. But stupid emotions overtook smart logic and reason on my part. He didn't exactly hold a gun to my head or make threats. I think that's why I'm so angry with myself. At least he's been fairly honest from the get-go about how he feels about premarital sex, and that he understood my views but didn't necessarily share them. I knew that, and yet because I did enjoy being with him, I have continued to see him, knowing in the back of my mind that I was pushing my luck but thinking I was strong enough and in control enough to resist anything he might try. Wrong!

HM,

I have a lot of repairing of my relationship with God to do right now. Yes, I remember the prodigal son. And I even feel guilty when I ask for forgiveness, because I'd be totally lying right now if I said it was awful and I hated it and had no pleasant memories. But I feel like that's how I SHOULD feel, because it is wrong and I know that!

As for your D.S. story, I know they say parents are totally in awe of their child, even if handicapped. There is couple my ex and I used to be friends with who have a daughter my son's age now who is profoundly handicapped. She has a very rare birth defect and is only one of a handfull of people who have survived to her age in this country with it. It is so sad to watch what she's endured and I've found myself many times thinking, 'It would have been so much better had she not survived as an infant'. They've had a very difficult life because they have chosen to keep her at home vs. institutionalize her, and she's an extremely difficult, beligerant, often violent teen with some facial deformaties that are difficult to accept if one isn't used to being around her. But they love her, and they and her brother see things in her that others don't. The mother has said to me before how angry it made her when the child was born and people would talk about how it would be better if perhaps she didn't make it. I don't understand, because all I see is suffering in their family on many fronts, but they truly do love her just as they would a normal child. BUT..they have each other (husband/wife) and a large extended family who has helped a great deal throughout her life to give the parents breaks when they needed some time by themselves, and they've had each other to lean on for companionship and love and support. They haven't done it alone.

Knight,

I did expect the 2x4 from you. And I deserve it.


My thoughts exactly. "Incredibly stupid". Couldn't have put it better. It's one thing for a teenager to do this. But I'm 39, a business professional, and fairly intelligent most of the time. I know right from wrong. So why did I let endorphins send me on such a trip that I couldn't turn it around before it was too late? Maybe it's because I've never been in a relationship for very long that wasn't a sexual relationship--either before marriage, or then for my 19 years of marriage.

This is why I shouldn't have continued dating this guy, even if just for dating practice--because he doesn't share my beliefs and I was afraid something like this would happen.

As for your suggestion of tests, etc., whether right or more than likely, wrong, I won't go that route with him. That makes it sound like he's this evil pervert who took advantage of me and now I want him to pay.

First, ultimately consent was entirely mutual. It wasn't like I wasn't kissing him back or that I was forced into his room against my will. Second, I know AIDS is always possible, but it's very rare still in heterosexual populations here in Iowa. His lifestyle is not one where I would worry a great deal about that. He's in grad school, he's very athletic, he's very into being healthy. He doesn't hang with the type of people I'd be too concerned about. Other STD's, yes, are possible. But I will concern myself with getting ME tested. That's what really matters at this point anyway. That's what I did after my ex started the affair with the OW. Her past was much worse--she IS a risk. I didn't force him to get tested. I just waited and got ME tested.

I know I should quit seeing this guy. That's the tough thing. I'm not angry with him (I am disappointed that he showed no more respect than he did for my wishes), but like I said, I didn't exactly put up a great fight. He holds no potential as a serious partner, first because of the difference in beliefs, and now because of what I've learned being around him this week. I more have just enjoyed watching movies with him, playing mini-golf, going to dinner, etc...until this all blew up.

But right now I have other things to think about anyway. I'll sort all that out later.

One thing though...I really don't see him as a predator at all. He is a guy who admits he doesn't share my Christian beliefs nor my views that sex must wait until marriage, but other than that he's just your run-of-the-mill single guy nowadays, not at all flirty toward others when we're out, and a little shy even. He's just competitive and driven toward goals (should have had a clue based on his extreme athletic competitiveness and how hard he works himself to stay in shape) and I think he set his mind on this and wasn't going to let it go until he proved me wrong. Sadly, he was successful.

predators come in all flavors.... there commonality is not respecting other peoples needs, boundaries in pursuit of what they want....until you stop making excuses for other peoples behavior, you will remain at risk (for choosing poorly)...

For crying out loud LL, you are 40 yo, and not stupid... nor should you be this naive. So he is a nice predator, who gives a flying flip. There are all kinds of strategies and if you don't think you were played....then you are hopeless. You are an emotional wreck, without the backbone to enfore boundaries and he nailed you...own that LL. This is not a nice person.

and btw...not mad at him!!!! You should be furious....you trusted this man and he betrayed you as badly as one can be betrayed....

How in the heck do you explain this (so to speak) to your kids when you advocate abstinence to them? He knew your values, not only did he rob you, he seriously has attacked your children, through you....this is a mess LL, do NOT GIVE THIS MAN A WALK...personally if you should ever see him again, you need to punch out his lights (males understand that kind of communication). For my money, satan has been working on you LL, he knows your weaknesses and used them against you... yeah you are needy and deprived...aren't we all..so what. Anyways, looking on the bright side, if you process this right, you should be armoured in the future...is up to you.

Let's see if I've got this straight, lordslady: you think this guy didn't just demonstrate callous disregard for your boundaries and your risks, but that he actually set his mind - i.e. premeditated - on finding a way to manipulate you into a position where you would see that you could be manipulated into going against your beliefs. He deliberately set out to tear you down!?

How is it that you don't see that as predatory behavior, lordslady? I really think you need to ask yourself why you find his behavior acceptable. Do you have such disrespect for yourself that you cannot recognize it in others?

I'm not suggesting that you should try to absolve yourself of your own responsibility and lay it all on him, but you need to see his actions and attitude in a more accurate light if you are going to be able to evaluate future relationships without opening yourself to undue pain and risk.

Okay, I guess my definition of a "predator" was different than you guys'...more true evil, someone who might just accomplish their mission and move on, not caring at all about the other person.

In that sense, I think he doesn't fit the description. He doesn't seem to be moving on. In fact, he has made several statements that would lead one to believe that he would like to consider us an item, and even made a few statements about how it wouldn't take me 4 years this time to get married again (in reference to my saying I dated my ex for 4 years), and how I might even be married shortly after I turn 40. I have made it very clear that I am not committing, and that our difference in beliefs are the big deal-breaker for me as far as why I'm not ready to commit.

However...both Knight and Gnome, I do have to agree, he didn't have my best interests at heart.

Gnome said:



Without writing a novel here, I guess I did find his behavior, if not acceptable, then "normal". Why? Because I let a man I loved very much, for 19 years of marriage (and 4 years of dating), walk all over me and do whatever he wanted, when he wanted, and then when I tried to call him on it, he turned on me and yelled at me and I allowed him to make me believe that it was my fault, or that I had unrealistic expectations.

So, it's going to be a challenge for me to figure out what is NOT normal or acceptable in future relationships, but I don't know how to do that without actually experiencing the situations and dealing with them. If I just sit and never date, I guess I stay safe (and maybe thats God's plan, if I do end up PG, which is still a huge concern today for me). But I so want to experience having a partner again, but this time a Christian one who shares my beliefs and goals.

LL

For all that I don't believe that sexual activity must only happen in the boundaries of marriage, I have to agree with the gentlemen on this: This guy KNEW what your beliefs and wishes were on the issue, but did not at any time demonstrate RESPECT for those beliefs and wishes. In doing so, he did not demonstrate RESPECT for YOU.

Yes, it was your decision to make at that moment, and you made what you are now seeing as the wrong decision. BUT, he should NEVER have brought you to a point of having to make that decision, since you had already told him what the decision should be for you. Predator, perhaps not in the sense of strictly being with you for sex, but I would say that his competitive nature made you a challenge - you said no sex, he says to himself "I'm good enough to make her change her mind about that" - and I think that is where the disrespect lies. And I'll bet he doesn't even know that he's been disrespectful, that's the worst part.

But you, LL, yes, you made the wrong decision for yourself and your beliefs. However, aren't you being a little disrespectful to God right now? Beating yourself up about this is not going to change the decision you made, nor will it change the consequences. I'm not a particularly religious person - but it seems to me that forgiveness is up to the Lord, and that being truly repentant is what He wants from you in order for him to give you that forgiveness. You are repentant and you know that the Lord can forgive you... how can you, then, not forgive yourself?

I will echo the others in the fact that you should get to a doctor as soon as possible in order to ensure your health.

T

You can't control someone else's behavior, you can only control your own, which is why we have boundaries. Boundaries aren't there for the other person to enforce, they are there for YOU to enforce, so you can protect yourself from harmful behavior whether it is intentional or not.

He didn't respect your wishes because YOU didn't respect your wishes.

If I understand correctly, this was the first opportunity you have had to enforce this boundary. It's a new behavior for you, so it might take a bit of practice before you are comfortable and consistent enforcing your boundary, even considering your current scare. Since this is a pretty big boundary, and you had trouble enforcing it, perhaps you might want to add a few more boundaries before the point of no return? You mentioned you should have walked as soon as it went beyond kissing. Do you think you could enforce that boundary the next time you are in that situation?

Terri,

Bingo! I think you nailed that one.

AFS,

.

And that's why I'm angry with ME, and why I am taking a good share of the responsibility. He did nothing wrong in his eyes--why blame him? It was ME who did the wrong thing.



I think being in his house made the boundary a lot harder to enforce. Why was I there, and not out in public, you're probably all thinking? He has this awesome big screen TV and we've gone walking and then come back there to watch a movie on more than one occasion.

Had we been somewhere without such easy access to the privacy and comfort of a bedroom, I doubt we'd have ended up in this situation. It just made it too easy and the feelings all came so darned fast that let go of everything I believed in. You're right, this has been the first opportunity I've had...in my life, actually...to enforce this boundary in this situation. When I dated others than my ex back in my teens, I was never at their houses. And when I dated my ex, I was at his house and in his bed.

The really sad thing that I just can't get out of my mind is that for one profound lapse in judgement, I may have just cancelled every chance I have at sharing my future with someone special. That really sucks, because it seems so unfair (look at the people who have zero morals out sleeping with people all the time, but they're on birth control, so when they finally do get a grip and settle down, they've not screwed up their life by inserting a baby in it at the age of 40 or something like that). But me...because I really had no intentions of being like that because it's not how believe, may actually end up suffering far more lasting consequences for my mistake.

I prayed last night...a lot...asking God to, if it was his will, not let me end up pregnant or with anything life-threatening, and prayed that I may still have a shot at the Christian marriage I so much desire. But I know in my heart that I was the one who messed up, and while he will be there for me, he doesn't have to pull me out of this mess. He is God--he has every right to let me experience all the consequences of my actions.

It's going to be a really long week.

LL

Well, all I can say is women who take it all on themselves for others behavior, will just continue to experience adverse consequences (not just sexually, but other ways too). I will say LL et al...you are easy pickings for a skillful predator....all he needs to do is tell you he is one...and then the burden is totally on you...this is so dumb, what makes women think like this anyways?

For crying out loud folks, he didn't change her philosophy on life...I suppose had he somehow convinced her that 1st date (or whatever stupid date it was) sex is a good thing...and they had mutually agreed to meet for sex...then yep, I would agree, no predation, just 2 idiots...however, that is not what happened...he SEDUCED you against your stated wishes, he VIOLATED your stated boundaries using your emotional vulnerability and endorphins (or whatever) as his WEAPONS.....we even have laws against this sort of thing (taking undo advantage of people..we can it fraud). He did all this to get what HE WANTED...how in all this is Holy is this not predation LL???? Get a grip girl, and get satan behind you, don't listen to his (satan) sweet lies.

btw, that was about predation, it in no way excuses you from not enforceing (easily enforced) boundaries.... you have a lot of work to do in that regard, not only physically, but across the board probably...as you noted in your marital description. Before you can find a worthy partner, you must be one, and you are not at this time very safe. You are reactionary rather than proactive, and that must change.

LL -

Don't be so hard on yourself. Almost the same thing happened to me. We are "wired" to be attracted to the opposite sex. That is why boundaries need to be in place. Besides having them in place, it is necessary to stay away from "comfortable" situations.

For me it was with a long time friend. It happened before I even thought about it. Now I don't want to see him at all. He calls with the old "we can still be friends" story, but now I know better.

I hope that you are not pregnant, but remember the statistics are that women over 40 have a 99% chance of having a healthy baby.

I am SOOO sorry to hear that this happened! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

You REALLY have to THINK about your boundaries and, perhaps, write them down as a reminder as to what they are...

If you are not PG, that guy should be DONE as he certainly didn't help you in your moment of weakness...it's not he didn't know, but it's not like you didn't know either...

I REALLY hope that it didn't "take"...from the way your describe the "occurrence", I think your chances are pretty good...don't kill yourself worrying about because that energy spent on worrying will not help anything...you need the patience of Job until you can get your blood PG test.

Something my brother sent me that helps me when the emotions start running away with me. It may seem "harsh", but it helps me and I post it hoping ONLY that it can help you also...



I am not a religious guy, but I am pulling for you!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

WNB

everybody has had a moment of weakness...question is do you repeat it? I had one with xbf. That's ok.

Hope it's negative...just do a lot of jogging...supposedly that's not productive for those who want to be productive if you get my drift.

Knight,

I guess the reason I keep taking the bulk of the responsibility is because it was not a forced thing. He didn't put drugs in a drink or hold me there by force. He simply used the right words and the right moves and I turned into spineless putty. How stupid does that make me?!


And this is sort of the dilemma (IF I don't end up PG). How do I become a worthy partner without practice at it? I don't think sitting at home reading things has helped much.

Believer,

Yes, I remember your incident actually. I hope things are going well for you now. It's partly the incident itself that upsets me, but more the incredible risks I've set up for myself that could adversely affect the rest of my life. It may not just be one of those "Wow, what a mistake--learned from that--won't do it again!" type things.

WNB,

Your post on emotions is very applicable. I am letting mine run away with me. All I can think right now is how horrible it'd be if I were pregnant (and then I let myself feel bad about that because I'm thinking, "A child is a gift from God, how could I be so cruel as to say that the thought of having another one at this point makes me ill?")

I have had children since I was 20, and I raised them primarily by myself (my ex didn't participate much in their upbringing.) I was finally reaching a point where I was starting to see light at the end of the tunnel, where I might have a chance to experience life beyond motherhood (I know that sounds cold, and I don't mean it that way, but I truly do believe there should be a life beyond children.

If I was PG at 40 and it was my first child and I'd experienced my freedom beforehand, and I was ready to settle down and do the "mom" thing, it'd probably be wonderful. But that's not the case. I feel like I've been trapped for the last 2 decades in a sense (not by children but by the whole situation).

Okay, back to concentrating on trusting and praying and proactively thinking about what my options are.

LL

It doesn't make you stupid, it makes you human.

Okay, so it wasn't a choice you planned on making, but you made it, it still doesn't make YOU stupid. The choice may or may not have been a stupid choice. But again, the choice is just that--a choice--a decision you happened to make, don't confuse that with describing who you are as a person.

Have you asked God to forgive you of the choice you made? If so, then live in that forgiveness, as there is NO amount of guilt, shame, or self-condemnation that is going to pay for that decision.

So stop beating yourself over the head with it. *IF* you are pregnant, then you are, you've already said you won't have an abortion. Accept that you made a choice based on your emotions at the time and then praise God for whatever the consequences are, be it that you learned something about yourself and that you have weaknesses and needs and need His strength during those times, or He blesses you with another child at this age.

Either way, you can't go back now and change your choice. All you can do is accept it, and move on with the new knowledge, that your not as strong as you thought you were, and that you need to take other precautions the next time in your in a similiar circumstance.

Be it that you gain more control over your emotions and feelings and remove yourself from the situation before it gets out of hand, you just don't allow yourself to be put in that situation again in the future, or you make sure you have some type of protection in case you can't gain control over your emotions.

Yeah, you did a dumb thing by yourself in that position.

The question is, what do you do now? We all do dumb things. We're all incomplete, and have the responsibility to be continually growing ourselves up into more mature and complete beings.

So this experience and the mistakes you made showed up a major area in you that needs serious growth. That doesn't make you bad or insufficient in any way -- we all go through that. What matters is what you do about that area that needs growth.

And the big one that is jumping out of both your choices and how you express yourself here is your understanding and implementation of boundaries needs a lot of work. So the question of the hour is -- what are you going to do about that?

The first thing is make yourself a safe environment in which to get your boundaries problem sorted out. Among other things, that means no dating for the time being. Let's face it, anyone who does what both of you did, between the std risks and procreative risks, is not secure enough in themselves to handle dating at the current time.

Then you need a lot of practice choosing boundaries and holding them in a safe environment. It's clear you don't understand what that means, fully. It's not just telling someone what you want your boundaries to be, and it's even more than having a plan and sticking to it when someone tries to cross them. It also means not putting yourself in situations where your boundaries get pushed on in the first place. This guy was never worth dating -- he heard your stated boundaries, and regarded them as something to find his way past, not something to respect.

You actually practiced a good example of that yesterday. You didn't want the morning-after pill, and you chose not to see a doctor when you might face pushing at that boundary. That's certainly a wise decision in many respects. You really do need to get to a doctor no later than tomorrow morning, however. -- I do understand that it's difficult to do on a Sunday.

Paul told Timothy to "flee youthful lusts." He didn't say to "resist" them. I believe this is because there comes a point where our capacity for rational and spiritual judgement is so swamped by other factors that we can no longer trust ourselves to choose rightly. I think a good way of avoiding those kinds of situations is to set our boundaries further back from what we believe is truly wrong to a place where we could still hear the alarm bells ringing when those boundaries are crossed.

Lordslady, in your situation there were a number of boundaries you could have chosen which might have protected you. Instead you chose boundaries which turned out to be too difficult to enforce in the circumstances you trusted yourself to enforce them. So move your boundaries further back for next time.

Personally, my policy is to err on the side of pushing them further back than necessary and then adjusting from there, instead of trying it the other way around.

LL -

I never thought I would betray my vows. Never. I wasn't even interested in another man. But one thing led to another, and before I knew it, it happened.

I don't blame my friend, I blame myself for getting into this position. It started out as a charity event at the yacht club, then moved to his boat with friends, then right into his bed. Yikes!

I'm still not divorced, so am avoiding all contact with any men. But after I get divorced, I'm going to be very careful.

Gnome,

I agree, boundaries can change as a relationship progresses,
so don't be afraid to move them further out right now.

Instead of allowing yourself to be alone with someone in your home or their home, keep things out in the public eye.

seriously, your experience just re-confirms that Harley's emotional needs are much more powerful than religious scripture or beliefs, and that emotional needs transcend religion in inter personal relationships.

now, you can make mistakes, and you can correct mistakes, or you can keep mistakes. . . its all up to you. . .

wiftty

TR,

I've been trying to convince myself that if I do end up PG, that it's a gift from God (given that the more I read, I do think my chances are much less than 25-30%). But those are just "odds". They could be .01% and I could be that lucky person. Someone has to be. Anyway, I haven't convinced myself yet, so this will be the obvious struggle for the week, combined with a splitting headache I'm getting from a cold I have that is settling in my sinuses. And I don't dare take Advil because I don't know my 'status'.

I would try and get in to a Dr. tomorrow, but it's pointless on the PG front. If I wait until say Wed/Thurs, there might be a fair chance they could run the blood test and settle things for me.



And yes, I think this would be the best thing for me to do. It's probably not practical to only meet in public forever, and it's costly as well (it's a lot cheaper to go to someone's house and snack and watch a movie on TV than it is to go out to dinner, to movies, mini-golf, etc.) My budget is rather tight (which is another very scary issue should a child be involved). But yes, not going to their home will have to be high on my list if I get to continue dating.

MOS,

I agree--I'm bad with boundaries. I'm just not sure how stopping all dating (if I'm fortunate enough to escape my immediate fears) will help me get better with them. Granted, it will protect me, because if you're not around something, it can't hurt you. But I need to learn HOW to act around people.

Gnome,

Agreed--I'm going to have to push back some boundaries. It's still hard for me to determine what they are--I hate saying "Okay, I'll do nothing but hold someone's hand until I'm married." That's a little boring. But from much more, things can take off in a hurry if one partner is good at pushing things. Guess that's the trick--find someone who doesn't push.

Believer,

I know, you understand what I'm saying about how it happened.

Wifty,



Emotional needs are very, very powerful. Along with other needs that I find are high on my "must have" list, the emotional need for affection is up there pretty high. And probably since it was a need that was rarely met in my marriage (to clarify, the SF part my ex did meet on a semi-regular basis until our latter years, but the emotional part--the hugging, cuddling, kissing, wasn't there). On a side note, the more I analyze my ex, the more I see he had huge fears of emotional intimacy. I'm guessing that's why he saw other people throughout our dating years and had 2 affairs after we were married, and why he turned to porn for his fulfillment. If he turned to me, he'd might have to open up emotionally. To be brutally honest, it was rare when we had SF that he kissed me. I've been without anything at all for almost 18 months now (until I started dating recently), and when I started getting the things I craved for so long, the need went on overdrive.

However, I do still hold that, for me, shared spiritual beliefs trump all else, because if Guy #2 and I had shared the same spiritual beliefs and goals, we might have had the strength to stop ourselves from entering into this situation, even if it was an emotional need for both of us.

If you share beliefs, the strong person can often be there to hold the weak one up, and vice versa. Sure, there are times when both get weak, but the odds would be better.

LL

LL -

It wouldn't be any better if you both shared beliefs. Forget about the strong one holding the weak on up when it comes to abstaining.

You (and me too) need to stay out of situations that could lead to jumping in the sack.

LL..However, I do still hold that, for me, shared spiritual beliefs trump all else, because if Guy #2 and I had shared the same spiritual beliefs and goals, we might have had the strength to stop ourselves from entering into this situation, even if it was an emotional need for both of us.

If you share beliefs, the strong person can often be there to hold the weak one up, and vice versa. Sure, there are times when both get weak, but the odds would be better.

Knight....Exactly, now just put that into practice. Of course one must be aware some talk, but don't do the walk. I disagree wifty, EN's are not more powerful than spiritual beliefs...if you actually act on your beliefs. LL problem is she let herself get "drunk" (in a manner of speaking), so violated her beliefs in favor of feeding her EN's.... EN's can be met in healthy and unhealthy ways...one must choose more wisely when getting them met.

Believer, true, don't depend on anyone thing, being safe involves a set of interlocking boundaries, one if breached can cause a domino effect.

first, have a committment to a principle...pre-marital sex...ok, or not ok.

second, quickly ascertain a dating prospects position on this, it is a deal-breaker, don't date anyone who believes differently

third, don't (at least for a time, eventually you must take risks with intimacy, is part of growing...) place yourself in seductive circumstances

fourth, pray together for guidance and strength in the developing relationship, including maintaining sexual boundaries

fifth, discuss and agree to specific physical boundaries, so both know when supposed to stop. and hold each other accountable if someone is misbehaving...it is natural to want to have physical contact, and a healthy part of relationship growth...but without any specific boundary, is easier to get lost in the moment and perhaps lose control.

Good boundaries are no direct genital contact, and keep your clothes on, these are easily recognized boundaries, and pretty much short-circuit any slippery slope to intercourse.

It is not helpful to be paranoid, or only date in crowds, never embrace or romantically kiss.... it is ok to look not only to ourself, but our partner to help with keeping the boundaries (for lots of reasons I won't go into now, but is about vulnerability and building trust..both essential to a successful relationship, and must be discerned, experienced..which means taking some risk).

Ultimately you do depend on yourself, but ALSO your judgement in selecting a safe parnter. LL knew she was selecting an unsafe man, put herself in harmsway, and had no sense of intermediate boundaries..she broke three major rules in so doing....which greatly increased the likelihood of disaster...

"The SF was not allowed to finish--I made him stop before that happened."

Ok LL, you made a mistake, but you did catch yourself before things went completely crazy. That does tell me that you are not nearly as bad as you are making yourself out to be.

I just don't think you realized how starved you are for fulfilment of your needs. Unfortunately, there are men who can play you like a violin. I assure you, if I had no morals, I would have much more of a sex life than I do now. Please stop with the guilt, God has already forgiven you & he is really not that surprised.

Pick yourself back up and keep on going. I believe in you.

Boy, things are hoppin' around here! I've been gone all day. Good conversation goin on!

My exBF jokes that women really mean "yes" when they say "no", or that their mind can be changed with a little persuasion. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> I wonder how many men really think this way? I really don't think men realize HOW HARD it is for us to make the decision to say "no" sometimes. We are human, and once we decide to say "no", we really mean it, but it's not always an easy decision. DON'T PUSH US! Yeah, it's our own fault for allowing situations to escalate, for being in those situations, for ultimately saying "yes", but it's the man's fault too for pushing, especially if we already said no.

I'm generalizing, cuz I've been there too. It just seems so common.

So, ll, you're human, and you do have to make decisions about your future boundaries and how to handle these circumstances in the future, NOW that you know how you handled THIS one. OK -> trying to get to HOW it happpened, and WHY.... I really can't offer exact advice from personal experience - you have to find what works for YOU. I can't relate at all because I can stop when I flat out want to stop. I just can't understand getting THAT carried away with my emotions, but that's just me, and how I'm wired, I guess. I choose yes when I want, and no when I want. Sometimes it makes "him" mad to say no, even if he tries to "persuade" me. Is that part of it??? You didn't want to make him mad? Or was it to the point that you were honestly carried away and wanted it? Did the thoughts of PG and STD's cross your mind? Your vows to God? Did you push them away? Or just hope to deal with them later? Just trying to understand, (since I'm different) and hopefully, help you understand. You obviously had some wits about you, since you "stopped" him... but why didn't you stop sooner... is it because you didn't want to hurt his feelings?

shared spiritual beliefs may trump all else in deciding whom to marry, however, as far as your emotional control, and your actions, if you allow yourself to believe that now you need spiriutal agreement to save yourself from your own emotions, you are abandoning your ability to stand up for yourself. . .

in simple words, its all mind games with religion and self responsibility. . .

your dating should consist of learning what types of red flags you don't like, and practicing saying "thank but no thank you" as soon as you see them. Without learning how to spot them, and without practicing how to say no. . . you won't get past the dysfunctional marriage material which is 97% of what is left after 40 . . . .

wiftty

Knight,



That is an interesting way of phrasing it, but yes, that's what I did. It had been a long time since I had some of those needs met, and I reached a point and emotions overtook logic and I stopped listening to God. That's sad.

Aslan,

Thanks for the vote of confidence, but I only stopped him because the little (you may get PG) voice got so loud I couldn't tune it out. By that time, I'd tuned out God. So, had PG not been a concern, I'm sad to say it would have continued to the end. And any unprotected sex, whether it goes for just a little while or completes is enough to expose a woman to pregnancy.

Faith,

You are a much stronger, more confident person than I am. I wish I were there, but I obviously have lots of growth to do. Based on some things in my past and this experience, I'd guess part of the reason I didn't stop him when he started crossing major lines was that fear of rejection, or of making him feel bad. I have always had an issue with making others feel bad, or hurting their feelings. Again, that's how my ex and my kids have gotten away with as much as they have. I put the feelings of others first, which sounds in theory like a good thing, but can backfire.

But it wasn't that I wasn't enjoying it, too. And when he kept at me and kept at me, and my physical desire and my emotions got so strong, then yes, I reached a point where I wanted it really bad, too, and I quit listening to anything else in my brain (except that little PG voice that never went completely away). And as for stopping him, we both sort of stopped ourselves because the voice got so loud that I started saying, pretty much under my breath because it was all I could muster, "xx, I DON'T want to be PG!". And finally, it was enough to sink through both our very thick skulls.

Wifty,



I don't always have the ability to stand up for myself without leaning on God. (Bear with me--I know you and I don't share beliefs so this will sound really strange to you, but it makes completel sense to me and is how I think.)

If it was all about me and what I could do for me, I wouldn't need God. But I need him, not only for the salvation he gives though Christ, but I need him to guide me so that I don't make a mockery out of my life. When I don't let him guide me, this is what happens. If I follow him, I do a lot better, and I feel a lot better about me.

And this is why, in relationships (or in marriage, more specifically) we are to be "yoked" with other believers. We need each other for strength, so that we don't get pulled away from God by worldly things (like this stupidity I just pulled this week.)

LL

Guy called me tonight, just to chat. I took the conversation down a different path. Now no one best get their hopes up about my telling him off, or demanding an STD test or anything because I didn't do that.

We talked about my fears of PG. Still freaks him out. I told him I figure if I am, he'll change his # and bolt, that it wouldn't bother him. He said that's untrue, that it would bother him, and that's not who he is. Nevertheless, I think we're very clear that he doesn't want a child right now any more than I do.

So we start down the "shared beliefs" road and how that is causing my issues with him. Again, he's honest--he isn't going to change his beliefs, and I'm honest--I don't want him to, because it wouldn't be genuine. We agree he meets my requests for honesty (for the most part), affection and conversation, which I'd rank #2-#4 on my list. But that #1 is a biggie.

So he asks the question I've dreaded: "LL, so why did you even continue to see me if you know I'm not what you're looking for?" (Wow, good question.) The best answer I could come up with--because I feel comfortable with him and enjoyed his company. I reminded him again that I told him from the start I wasn't wanting to commit but was just wanting to go out and do stuff.

So his next question, "Then basically, we should have never crossed any lines of intimacy at all, huh?" (Another good question.) I guess he'd be correct on that. So why did I?

So, in this little messy situation, it's hard to say which one of us stands to get hurt the most. Him, maybe, if I'm not PG, because it appears I've played with him when I didn't intend to at all, or me, if I do end up PG, because he'll bolt (not that I'd consider marrying him anyway), and I'll have trashed my life.

He had one very valid point though: He told me that even if I do have these stated boundaries, that he's confident that sooner or later, be it with him or someone I feel is better suited for me, I will again be faced with the same situation I was faced with this time. His point--wouldn't it make sense to at least be prepared, so that I don't have this to worry about? He's right, I think. Should I get lucky and dodge the bullet (which I'm not convinced I've dodged), I should make it a point to get myself scheduled in the near future for a tubal ligation. I don't want any more kids with anyone. I'm sure of that. At least not any that I have to give birth to.

And I asked him, "So why weren't YOU prepared?" His answer, "LL, I didn't intend for it to go that far either..."

(But because it did, I have zero doubt he'd like to see it go there again, just with protection this time. And I told him, if I escape this unscathed, I'm considering it a good learning experience and I'm going to be very careful about the situations I place myself in.)

But for now, where does this leave me? I'm not sure. I'm still sweatin' bullets because I've had twinges in my lower stomach all day. I don't remember having them normally at this time during the month. But maybe I do and I'm just super-sensitive right now. If I start gagging on my toothbrush (the first sign of PG with both my other kids), I'm checking into a mental institution!

And to complicate this whole sordid story a little bit more, the guy I've been emailing every day now from eastern Iowa would like to meet me Wednesday evening. We were actually going to meet today, but I've been under the weather with some sinus thing, so we decided to give me time to recuperate.

Do I meet him? I am really interested in him--he is very intelligent, yet very down-to-earth. We've had some great email and phone conversations. I'd hate to miss an opportunity that was perhaps being placed before me. He does share my biblical beliefs (not sure about the sex one--haven't discussed that yet). His suggestion in one of today's emails was that perhaps since we both had to miss church this morning, that maybe we should have another of our marathon phone conversations before long and share some scripture.

But what if I meet him, like him, he likes me, and then I have to disappear into thin air because I find out I'm PG by Guy #2. If I don't meet him on Wednesday, I won't have another opportunity for 2 weeks, because he's going on Ragbrai (big Iowa bikeride for anyone unfamiliar) all next week.

I'm just too confused right now. My head aches from the sinus thing and I'm afraid to take anything strong for it on the chance it might harm something that I'm praying isn't even there. UGH!!!

LL

Worrying is energy poorly spent...I speak from experience! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Put your plan in place (get STD test, get PG test in 10 days...wait for results) and distract yourself with other things...

You don't want an ulcer so you? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Should things wind up positively (no PG)...WHAT are your boundaries?

Perhaps putting them out here will help "solidify" them for you.

You really sound like a good person who let their hormones get in the way...I know...I am one step behind you in that regard. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Again, what are YOUR boundaries?

Good luck! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

WNB

Wow... LL... clearly I've been away too long... I still have to go back and search to find out how things ended with your H.

I think you are freaking yourself out a little too much. Have faith in the Lord. Trust Jesus. You know darn well you are forgiven for your sins, and that the Lord wants to bless you and your life.

If it turns out that you are pregnant, then that is God's will. You have to trust that He will not give you more than you can handle. And you also know that anything He gives you, you needed to be given.

You are taking too much of this on your own shoulders.

Peace, sis.

J

LL, You are correct, you can be "exposed" to the possibility of pregnancy if there was no ejaculation, however, the probability is nowhere near as great.

I just hate to see you keep beating yourself up. You are a very sweet girl, but you made a mistake. If you are pregnant, so be it, you can deal with it.

For future reference, when I was in college, I had a rule I called the "shoes stay on" rule. In other words, if you never took off your shoes on a date, you were unlikely to get comfortable so things would progress. Unless of course, you keep always your shoes, garter belt & stockings on, but I digress (I hope that amused you, you can use a laugh).

Anyway, just get up, shake yourself off & keep going. I still think you can now conclusively state that big breasts are overrated. Isn't it nice to know your exH was wrong?

Dewt,

If you read this thread again, (unless you've researched the whole messy story through my other posts), the short version:

My ex never did decide to come around. I never did a good Plan B. I sort of did a modified Plan A 'til 8/04 when I could no longer take the fear of what he might do to our family financially (and he'd moved her in with him), and I filed. I figured, hey, he still has 3 months before the DV is final to turn himself around. He chose to keep drinking, continue doing drugs, and eventually proposed to the OW about a week after our DV was final back in November, when he took her on a Paris vacation. They're still together, she's still not DV, and he bought a house in June, so they're settled. And while this isn't the outcome I'd hoped for initially, in hindsight, I believe it was the best thing for me and the kids. The calm has been amazing...until now. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

John,

I am trying hard to hang onto that hope that my chances are less because of that, and because I'm almost 40 (which one would think might decrease my fertility). But the other voices keep saying that it would be only fitting that I'd end up pregnant, because that's usually how my life goes. I have the world's worst timing with just about everything in my life. And now, I fugure since there is someone who seems very interesting out there wanting to meet me, it would be my luck that I could have screwed up that chance at a good thing, just like I tend to screw up everything else.

The "shoes on" rule is bad for me, especially in the summer, because I wear flip-flops. They pretty much come off as soon as I hit the door, and I often go barefoot if I'm not going in anywhere. I reserve the garter belt & stockings for cooler weather. (Okay, JOKING!) I probably need to focus on another article of clothing. Heck, shorts would have been a good one.

In all seriousness, I don't really think any of my clothing articles, besides the shoes, need to be coming off with anyone anytime soon. That would eliminate a lot of problems.

As for breast size, I have been pleasantly surprised that it seems to be a non-issue as of yet. I guess that's one good thing that's come out of my dating--it's built my confidence in myself a little in that respect.

LL

Put in some GOOD reflective time as to what you want your boundaries to be and a PLAN to stick with them. It has to be simple, so you can remember them in a hormone-induced craze! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Your situation has got me thinking about what mine should be once I venture out into the "world of singleness".

Soemwhat OT---I can't say it enough...enthusiasm is a FAR greater aphrodisiac that cup size...rant off! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I am sure it will all be fine...don't worry so much and BE PATIENT...you'll have your answers soon enough... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

WNB

Lordslady - Lighten up..... Really - look at it another way - you have tried something new and exciting and decided that it wasn't what you want right now.... And I don't think you have offended anyone - but I wouldn't worry about being pregnant because if you won't do anything about it - then there is nothing that you can change - so you will have to accept ... Dont' fret.... you are gonna make yourself sick... I wanted to say good for you - at least you have learned you are desirable and you can be with someone else... though I know it isn't what you want right now.. but not everyone has to believe everything the same.. I mean the old saying is that opposites attract - different people are what makes the world go around... but my goodness stop condemning yourself and put pregnancy out of your mind - or all of your worrying is gonna make you so nervous that you are gonna skip your next period and give yourself a heart attack to boot... You are only human.... Enjoy....

Just to let you know, I almost fell out of my chair when I read this!! The solution is simple, when on dates, wear combat boots, the kind that lace up almost to the knees.

Just a couple of more comments & I will leave you alone...

1) Stop listening to the little voices in your head. Lots of things are going well now. You have not mentioned any problems with your daughter in months.

2) Be thankful that you have found that not all men are obsessed with breasts. My W is a 38D, but is extremely sexually inhibited and selfish. I would readily exchange her breasts if it would make her more sexually adventurous.

3) I have watched you grow incredibly in the past few months. You have become an incredibly strong woman who is becoming more Godly every day. Don't let this little setback stop you.

OK - time to get the 2x4's out, because I'm in a different place on this. I've been reading it from the beginning, and talked about it a little with a fellow MB-er. (I'm not sure if she agrees with my take on this or not!)

Lordslady knows I've been around here for a while. We went through the "dark-days" around the same time and she knows I've been a fan of hers as well. She's beaten herself up pretty good about this, so I'm not going to. However this message is directed more at those who are seeing this as "no big thing, it's OK, etc." I couldn't disagree more. To me - it should be an eye-opener for many of us and we should help keep each other accountable to our own beliefs and morals.

Let me explain it this way: Most of us on here are victims of affairs, and we understand how WE felt during that time. However, through intense study and research - we also have a good idea of the mindset that our xs's had while having the affair. (Irrational behavior, being in a fog, caught up in the moment, just couldn't help myself, etc.) We've heard it all. We know the pain it causes and how whacko our x's seemed. It was so clear to us how our x's could've prevented themselves from having the affairs. ["You should've thought about the consequences well before you agreed to meet at that motel, what did you think was going to happen after he kissed you", and so on.] Now, consider LL's recent event. (Not picking on you here - Lady, just offering some consideration for all of us to think about!) Someone made a reference that LL was "drunk" with emotion, lust whatever. Isn't that what we called "Foggy Behavior" when our x's were doing it?

For those who have no issue with SF while unmarried; this is not for you. However, for those who declare personal boundaries - and then forsake them; is there much difference between our x's actions and our own? And for those who believe in God, scripture, etc. there is clearly no difference in the two.

Probably a few of us have a tendency to believe that we somehow 'deserve' to go a little bit crazy after all we've been through. That just a little taste won't hurt... Now look at the consequences that LL (and possibly a newborn) is facing. I'm just not sure if the risk is worth the gain. (Sound familiar?)

So what do we do? For those of us who do not share the same belief as LL about SF outside M; there is relatively little chance of the consequences that LL is showing because of proper preparation. (LL was not intending to SF - therefore no birth-control, protection, etc.) However for those of us who do share the same belief as LL; shouldn't we check ourselves to be sure we're emotionally prepared? LL, you're great, but I fear for ya girl. Those endorphines get going and make some of us a little crazy. You still seem vulnerable to me and I worry for you.

JMHO <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

FR

FR,

I couldn't agree more with your post! And yes, I got caught in the exact "fog" I was worried about (except that I can't call it fog...it was just really total lack of good judgement on my part.)

And now I'm filled with the fear that the one thing I wanted more than just about anything else in my life, the chance at actually having a Christian marriage with a partner who I could trust, who loved me, who wanted to be with me, to share my future with...

If I end up being PG, I have kissed that goodbye forever, and that I find hard to deal with. No man will touch a 40-yr-old with a newborn. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

And this may sound cold because all of us are supposed to just jump for joy at the chance of motherhood, but I'm not jumping at it right now. Contrary to what my sis said yesterday, a baby would NOT 'complete me' right now.

So, instead of finding what I desired so badly, one huge mistake may have landed me alone for the rest of my life. And although I know it's becaused I broke God's rules and I deserve every bit of what I get, it's tough to deal with, because you're right--I wasn't on BC because I didn't intend to go that far--because I knew it wasn't right (at least at one point I did).

LL

[color:"blue"] Fishracer [/color]
Thank you for putting a different spin on this - one that everyone, despite whatever their gender, religious belief, or boundaries are! You have totally put this into perspective as to how this should affect ALL of us who are betrayed spouses. (Not to minimize LL's situation.)

[color:"blue"] LL [/color] - I have been reading this thread since you started it, but didn't respond quick enough and now you have your own posse! I'm not one for psycho babble but sometimes you need to "command your soul" and this may be one of those times. Don't focus on the negative (possibly being PG). Have you decided what to do about guy #3 (or was it #4? the out of town guy)

Avondale,

Oh wow, which out of town guy are we even talking about? There have been 2. It's all really confusing.

For the rundown since the beginning:

Guy #1 - 2x married; awesome eyes & smile but we freaked each other out. It was for the best. He's history.

Guy #2 - doesn't share my beliefs. Was supposed to just be someone to hang out with. Made a mess of that--he's the topic of this thread. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Guy #3 - thought he was 5'8", wasn't. Date #1 was awkward beyond belief for any number of reasons. History.

Guy #4 - he's the out-of-towner from northern Iowa who shared a lot in common with me. However, one meeting was enough. I think he was ready to get married, to me..or to anyone. And I share the same name as his deceased sister-in-law who hung herself after his wife left him for her husband. Too freaky. Also history.

Guy #5 - That'd be the eastern Iowa out-of-towner I'm currently emailing. Stumbled onto him totally by accident as I was not searching out of my area, and actually just sent him a very innocent email asking where the pictures in his profile were taken, because they looked like California. (I was right, they were.) He was also not looking out of his area, so it's all been sort of weird, but we've written novels to each other and had a couple very long phone calls. He's suggested driving to my city on Wednesday and meeting at one of the new restaurants I've not eaten at yet.

The dilemma--what if I meet this guy and really like him and he likes me and wants to see me again, and then find out horror-of-horrors, that I'm PG. That would be really cruel of me, wouldn't it? How do I tell some guy, "Yeah, I want to meet you, but got messed up in this thing with someone I'm not interested in a future with, and this is what happened."

But of all the guys I've met so far or corresponded with, he is by far the one I'd be most interested in (as evidenced by our first phone conversation -- 189 minutes! We both had to plug our cell phones in during the conversation because they were dying.)

So here I am, messed up as all get out. Wondering if God is saying, "Just give it up, LL."

Advice??

LL

LL..How do I tell some guy, "Yeah, I want to meet you, but got messed up in this thing with someone I'm not interested in a future with, and this is what happened."

Knight...you tell em like this LL (and shame on you if you don't)... guy #5 "Yeah, I want to meet you, but got messed up in this thing with someone I'm not interested in a future with, and this is what happened."

Honesty is always the best policy (in relationships), and the truth will set you free with this guy (his choice, let him make it..not you)...for once let someone else decide their own "feelings" will ya LL, just once, try it maybe you will see what I mean.

And am I supposed to tell him BEFORE I meet him, WHEN I meet him, or what? Do I call him and tell him tonight? Do I email him--seems a little impersonal. If I tell him before, he'll bolt, and I might not even be PG. If I tell him when I meet him, that's cruel to make him drive 140 miles one way to hear what a loser I am.

At this point, I think I choose going back and being married to my alcoholic husband again because at least if I did screw up and end up in bed with him, it wasn't wrong, and he'd had a vasectomy so there weren't going to be more kids. (Oh yeah, that's not an option...thank you OW.)

LL

Could you tell him that something has come up. This is a terrible week for you to meet. You know you wouldn't enjoy it. You are really sorry but you need to reschedule. If he asks what happened, tell him it's a little family emergency or that it's personal. You don't have to give him a further explanation.

You can't do it this week.

Let it go at that.

If he presses you for a further explanation, given where you are in your relationship - remember you haven't even met yet - then he is not being respectful. And you might know part of what you are looking to discover about this man.

[color:"red"] JUST SAY NO!!!! [/color]

Those pesky consequences, they are just sooooo annoying. You created this dilemma LL, so must face the music....well, if you have any integrity anyways, and you seem to. What are the facts


1. You want to see what's what with this guy...so why would you not see him?

2. He is vesting time and resources in you, you have an obligation not to misrepresent yourself....and unfortuneately you have discovered some serious behavioral shortcomings...that it is reasonable to assume might affect his "choice" re you.

Rather than trying to control this, just say what I quoted (you)above, you have been honest, and he will do whatever he will do... what better solution can their be? This isn't a big deal LL, you have little vested yet, have a chance to start something off on a solid foundation (truthfullness), why wouldn't you do so? This isn't about being judged by him, asking for his understanding or forgiveness...you are just conveying relevant information about your behavior and emotional state.

However, if you choose not to deal with another prospect at this point, that is ok too...as long as it isn't out of fearfullness/shame/avoidance... but about you just wanting to get your act together. Yep, may pass up a chance, so there is your options, be a little vulnerable or not. Frankly I think you have more to gain by being open and honest in this case than not...but that's just me.

Sooner or later you will have to tell someone all of your sexual history anyways, if you get very far into a relationsip (part of that pesky radical honesty stuff)...so why not get it out of the way now....since the crisis is at hand.

Okay, I'm sure I just screwed up the best thing that's happened to me in a while and that I should have met the guy in person and THEN had this conversation. Instead, because it's too late to call him, I simply sent an email:



I hate myself. I really, really do. I will be alone for the rest of my life. I'm 99.9% sure of it.

LL

LL:

Cinderella is correct in her post on all fronts. And while Knight's honesty is admirable (and I agree that honesty is the best policy) I don't feel that means to share every personal detail with someone you just met & haven't dated yet. I suggest that you postpone all dating until you get results on PG and STD. This way you know what you're dealing with. Once you get the results (and if negative on both fronts), then it's time to include in a conversation with "Mr. Potential" that you made a drastic mistake a few weeks ago - one that you deeply regret and it was an eye-opener for you. [If he presses - which he may and like Knight says - he has a right to, then tell him you had a weak moment, had SF before you were really ready to and you needed time to deal with it.] He will understand. He may or may not like it - but he will understand. Then have a serious talk about your beliefs and boundaries, and his.

Now - about what's happened: You made a serious mistake that could have lasting effects. But it's done and you can only affect what happens now. So it's time for you to forgive yourself, ask God to forgive you and move forward. Don't forget it, but don't dwell on it. No more negativity! Be sure you've learned from it and that your future actions will show this. Eyes on the future, with a new plan.

And lastly (I've thought a lot about this): Please reconsider your boundaries. In your case, your boundaries were not in jeopardy until the moment that SF began to happen. That's too late due to emotions, heat, desire, human chemicals, etc. Reset your boundaries to an "earlier" time and/or event. Reset them so that it's reasonable to have confidence you can (and will) enforce them no matter what! New boundaries may be that you won't be alone with a man after 9:00 PM, or no more than one glass of wine when alone, or perhaps even a curfew of sorts. Whatever you come up with, know that it will work. Just be sure that the new boundaries are reasonably enforceable by your logic and don't wait until your emotions are flying all over the place. Make sense?

Good Luck LL. Keep us informed.

FR

LL,

You need to borrow my baseball bat? Maybe a stick with chains on it?

If you are going to keep beating the crap out of yourself do it right.

You crossed your personal and religious boundaries, you only need to ask for forgiveness and you did right?

Then what gives you the right to keep on hurting yourself? Do you feel the need to do so because you've been a "bad girl"?

The pregnancy issue is another item(frankly I'd be more worried about STD's), The mission was scrubbed , so to speak, right? The odds of you being pregnant are so remote they are probably incalculable and involve so many freakin' zero's your adding machine can't show you the decimal points.

So you may be pregnant, is this helping you? I mean this frantic breakdown, is it helping you deal or cope with this in any way? I'd say no, I'd say it is making things worse.

Instead of going totally ape-[censored] about what happened, why not sit down and re-think the boundaries, write them down, keep them in your purse, or pocket, in your shoe(in case you take them off) or whatever will work and focus on that. Something positive LL.

Something about this guy you ended up with. I keep seeing the words "predator" popping up, slick predator or whatever people are referring to him as. I don't know him but I do know this much....

You stated your boundaries and why.
You knew up front he does not share your religious perspective.
You also made it clear on here he does not share your propensity for Christ.
You all made out or whatever and one thing led to another...
As you also pointed out, he did not force you to drink, slip Roofies into your pop, or force you into his bed against your will.

Sooooo, Why are people here calling him a predator? WHy are some of you calling this guy a predator?

He does not share in the religious lifestyle, does not endorse no sex before marriage, and he had a seemingly willing partner when things got hot and heavy.

I don't see that as predatory in the least. If LL wanted him to stop (which she did eventually) I am sure if she said something it would have been over (like it was when she DID say something).

That makes him a predator?

That makes this guy dangerous?

No, it makes him dangerous to LL because she crossed her boundaries willingly for him.

What I find more dangerous is some of you self-rightous(sp?) people bad mouthing and expecting something from someone that DOES NOT share your viewpoint on sex, religion, and morals.

Here's a perfect example of closed-minded and misplaced "holier than thou" attitudes. From somebody that still will not fess up to their real identity nor even hint at the truth of their sitch...and is leading the siren song of beating down LL.....just plain sick of it

"Those pesky consequences, they are just sooooo annoying. You created this dilemma LL, so must face the music....well, if you have any integrity anyways, and you seem to. .......and unfortuneately you have discovered some serious behavioral shortcomings...that it is reasonable to assume might affect his "choice" re you."

What Smarmy, self-indulgent, manipulative, scummy, overbearing bullcrap!

LL this is NOT the the kind of thing you need to be reading or worrying about. It isn't helpful nor is it constructive, nor do you have to answer to man (mans laws because you didn't break any) for what you feel is a trespass on Gods Will.

Work your plan, ask for forgiveness, set it right with God and stop beating yourself down!

Stop it! You don't walk on water, you can't feed the masses with some fish and bread, and I know for certain if you die you will not be resurected and walk amongst us again.

Sorry if I went off on a tangent here but you've done enough beating on your own head, whats done is done and cannot be undone no matter how many times you crack yourself with a bat for it. If you are truly repentent and are upset with the choices you have made then fix that within yourself.

God has already forgiven you, because he loves you, because he knows you, and if you are willing to accept that God knows you and knows the number of hairs on your head, then you must accept that he forgives you and if HE can then you should too.

Much Love LL

RBM

Anytime you willingly violate someones boundaries you are a predagor of some kind....sure, predators come in all flavors from violent rapists to self-indulgent opportunists... the notion this guy was not acting selfishly to get something he wanted from LL is disturbing reborn...but you clearly have a different moral/ethical outlook on life than others, also your barely veiled implication that promiscuity and dishonesty are not character shortcomings is easily refuted. LL will listen to whatever advice she wants, and I don't really care much I get under your skin...I will pick smary every time, that is how healthy relationships and healthy people live.

You did the right thing LL, methods can vary, I probably would have opted for conversation over email...but if you really are going to start walking the walk, rather than talking the talk...then trust God will ya....you did the right thing and the outcome will be what it will be , give the angst over this up to God...right? You cast your bead on the waters, your conscience is clear, and satan keeps messing with ya throug your anxiety of being alone, missing the "one", etc. If this is the one, God won't let you miss him...as long as you do what's "right" not what is expedient, or manipulative (such as concealing your circumstances at the moment). You had two concrete choices...see him (and tell the truth) or withdraw for the moment (and exlaining is optional) until you felt ready to date again. Those were your only honest/healthy choices.

I agree hating yourself is foolish, remorse over your choice is fine, for a time...but you have heard this alot allready, just reminding you...beating up yourself is prideful in it's own way, and certainly a rejection of God's Grace...so stop, ok? I know it is a coping mechanism for you, (we all do it, especially those of us who have some moral understanding about life, but it must stop, it interferes with true ownership of the circumstances).

My guess is the guy will express some concern, but value your honesty tremendously, you did a very vulnerable, but strong thing...and I think he will still want to see you...maybe not, he will dither, as he should, but honesty and vulnerability are extremely strong draws to men of character.

Well guys/gals...

I'm regretting sending that email last night, just like I'm regretting much of the other stuff I've done.

I really agree that I should have somehow just postponed the meeting, but I'm not good at saying "family emergency" because it feels like I'm making something up and in a sense, lying. And I don't lie.

Sending something via email is so darned impersonal. And then I didn't need to give him so much info in it. I needed to sleep on it, and address it today, but today is only one day before when he was planning on meeting me.

At any rate, he didn't call back last night (not that I'm surprised, as it was nearly 11:30pm when I sent it), but nor did he send an email response or any acknowledgement this morning that he got it (and he's usually pretty good about checking his email in the morning).

So much for thoughts of meeting a really interesting, intelligent, shares-my-beliefs, in-shape, great sense of humor, down-to-earth, almost-doctorate type guy who specializes in the very field I'm so interested in because of my daughter's issues.

I rule at blowing things to bits! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

LL

Um...

My opinion, lordslady: There's nothing wrong with that e-mail you sent. No, I don't think you owe this man a full disclosure. Not now, at least. However, I don't see anything wrong with giving it to him anyway. If he can't handle the truth, that tells you something. If he can handle it, well, that tells you something else.

Of course, I'm the kind of guy who ignores all the relationship advice that tells you to play games and "keep them guessing." I suppose there's some reason for that advice, but I would rather just be open and honest and live with the consequences.

I do not expect "righteous" behavior from a man who has different morals. I expect him to live up - or down - to his own moral code.

If a man with a moral system permitting him to engage in extra-marital sex chooses to do so with someone who has a similar moral system and who has given him no indication that he is violating any boundary, I am not surprised or offended, and I do not call his behavior predatory.

However, if a man's moral code encourages him to take advantage of someone else's weakness in order to fulfill his own desires at that other person's considerable expense, and if he is so self-absorbed as to be unable to recognize the cost to that other person, I expect behavior from him which aligns with his morality - behavior which I think is very much appropriate to call "predatory."

Gentlemen, healthy discussion is permitted...but this is MY thread and I say there will be no nastiness or name calling (unless it's me, about myself). I'm saying that in a joking fashion, because we're all adults and we have freedom of speech, but nonetheless, let's try and be nice about it. While we may not agree with each other's beliefs, we need to at least respect that this is who they are.

Gnome,

You are right--no explanation was "owed" to the potential guy at this point. I have no relationship with him other than via email and a few phone calls. But things were eating me alive, so he ended up getting more of an explanation than he may have needed.

As for the "predatory" thing--while the more I think of how things happened and what's been said or not said since, the more it makes me angry, I still refuse to actually say he was a "predator". RM is right on this one, he had been clear on HIS views of premarital sex, and he was with someone who appeared at that point to be a pretty willing participant. His only big mistake was to not use protection. I call that self-centered and immature--because he wanted something without thinking through the consequences, but not predatory. I truly do think he thought we were at a different point in this relationship than I did.

Anyway, it doesn't matter what he is or isn't. What's done is done. I just need to be honest enough now to say, "Mike, I can't continue seeing you...on any level. We are not good for each other."

--------------------------------------------------------
Now for the other news:

I am no less than amazed, almost shocked. The guy I'm to meet tomorrow night did get my emails this morning and called me just as I was getting ready for work. I was late getting in. We talked for almost an hour.

I spit it all out--after much stumbling, and not breathing, and nervous 100-mile-per-hour chatter. It was a very difficult thing to do, given that we aren't even in a relationship. But I told him, honesty is very important to me, and if I'm even thinking about a relationship with someone, I want to start it off on the right foot.

I won't go into the details of the conversation and bore anyone, but suffice it to say, although he admits that if I'm PG it is a very big issue, he said he understands what happened, how it could have happened being the first time I've had to face this boundary since my DV, and still wants to meet me tomorrow night.

He told me that I'm making way more out of it right now than he is, and his feeling is that I should be more worried about STD's, too, than PG. (I'm worried about both, but until I can have a blood PG test, that still remains my biggest worry!) I told him I fully intended to be tested for STD's, just as I was after I discovered my xh's affair.

It was a pretty intimate conversation to be having with someone I barely know, but maybe was the best thing to do at this point, because I do feel at least a sense of relief that he is aware of the situation.

LL

Hey LL,

Well, I am so glad that you were able to tell him the truth. The good thing about this is that he knows exactly what he is getting: A sweet, intelligent, mature woman who is willing to let him know everything about her so he can make an informed decision about whether to see her.

I think you are learning that you are actually a pretty good catch. I salute you.

GDP-

Not directed at you

nuff said

Talked to my ob/gyn's office this afternoon, and the bad news is...

1) They won't do a blood PG test on me. The doctors don't do them anymore. They feel because of the cost, and the fact that insurance won't pay, that urine tests are just as effective. However, in order to get a good test, I have to be a week late on my period. So, there is no way of finding out anything until at least a week from Thursday, which would be the day my period is due.

2) The Imitrex I took for my migraine yesterday morning--BAD! Can't take Imitrex when pregnant. Has been proven at doses not much higher than mine to cause a host of skeletal, vascular and other defects in animals. Great, just great. If I didn't already have a higher chance of chromosome defects if I'm pregnant, just because of my age, I've now added this twist. And what the heck do I do if I get a migraine? I can't work, or parent, or function with them. I can barely drive. They were the one time I counted on my xh to take over for an evening, because I just couldn't. Imitrex has been a godsend! And I get migraines as frequently as once a week sometimes in the summer.

3) I'm supposed to call my family doctor (and admit all this crap to him) and see if he wants to pull me off the Lexapro, because it's not ideal to take either. The other time I tried weaning off Lexapro was in February and the effects about drove me crazy. I went back on. They're the same effects that other people complain about--dizziness, total lack of concentration, nausea, 'zap' sensations in your limbs when you move, and extreme anxiety. Not exactly what I need at this second.

4) I've been cramping all day, and actually part of yesterday too. I don't remember this happening until a couple days before I start my period generally. Guess what..it can be a sign of very early PG, as in when it's implanting into the uterus. Granted, it would be a little early for that, based on my reading--should be more like tomorrow or Thursday, but it is certainly possible.

5) The nurse at the ob/gyn office also confirmed that yes, it is quite possible for me to be PG even if we didn't finish.

I think I'll try and enjoy my ONE AND ONLY meeting I'll have with Guy #5 tomorrow night, then go home and cry and resign myself to a life alone with no partner, no companionship, no more SF--ever, because I'm probably PG with some baby I don't even want by some guy I don't want a future with, and the guy I might have wanted a future with will move on to someone worthwhile who is not stuck with an infant or fat and pregnant.

Yes, I'm crabby. This is just not something I'm wanting to deal with, and I know I have to. And I'm very angry at myself for being so stupid. A few brief minutes of what may have been fun at the time but is nothing but sickening now, because of what it may be doing to my life.

LL

Hi LL

I am very sorry. Please do the best you can to relax this evening. I don't know what will happen, but I know that God still loves you and cares for you. I know that does not help right now, but it is true.

I don't know what else to say, but I will be praying for you tonight.

hmmm, sounds like a PMS post, you are probably fine.

<gives LL a big squishy hug>

You poor dear. Between the emotional see-saw and the physical one, you must be about exhausted. That's horrible news about the pregnancy test, and the migraine medication -- it must be terribly frustrating.

I already gave my opinion that not dating at all just now was the *best* way (imho) to go, and now I'm just catching up on your thread since then. I think you handled the situation with Mr. #5 very well. I agree with those who said it's important you let him in on this before he invests significant resources in you, and you did exactly that. Good for you. I hope you take a moment to be proud of yourself in the midst of all this kicking yourself -- owning up to all of this as you have been doing takes guts. I'm very happy for you that he still wants to see you, and I hope it goes well!

For another two cents' worth on the guy from last week, I agree with those who say he really doesn't meet a reasonable standard of conduct for someone to consider for dating. He clearly didn't think your stated boundaries were something he needed to bother about respecting (and that's at best -- it sounds like he may have seen them as a challenge to win over). It's just not worth it to spend your time around someone who acts that way.

LL~~

I'm thinking that you are very in tune to your body right now. Probably more so than you have been in a long time.
Maybe what you are feeling is the ovulation cycle, or maybe you are getting closer the big event and going to be early!

Just a thought. They were my first thoughts anyway.

Take care of yourself.
Karona

I really wish you guys were all correct with PMS or all that. However, I'm sitting at Day 19. That's past ovulation, but well before PMS which usually starts at about day 22-23 or later, as I generally run a 26-day cycle. I'm not supposed to get my period until somewhere between a week from today and a week from this Thursday.

So I have a LONG time to wait. And a LONG time to fret. And yes, I'm also very angry with myself because I'm dwelling on it and not trusting that God will work it out according to my good, which is sinning, too.

I need to probably quit thinking about what I'd do if faced with the "boundary" situation again, Because all it does is make me realize just how much I have to lose and what I'm going to miss if I'm PG, because there won't be any boundary issues anymore. Unless I was willing to drop my child off with a friend and go out and sleep with some bar guy every now and then for the physical affection (and that's NOT me), no Christian guy will ever look my way again. (Maybe if I were 22 and PG, NOT at 40!)

If I'm pregnant, I will have a baby (possibly with handicaps) and be alone--no men--no boundaries--no love--no future--ever. That's the most heartbreaking part, because it's what I've desired and longed for more than anything. It's what I've thought about, and prayed for, for years. It's what I thought I might have a chance at when I DV my husband, when he left me. I thought maybe God was going to allow me to experience the Christian marriage I want so badly and never had.

You guys may not understand how much I DO NOT desire to spend the rest of my life alone, without a spouse, without that kind of intimacy and love. Friends and neighbors are great, but they just don't fulfill that empty spot for me. And if I'm PG, I have guaranteed my aloneness.

It's not PMS making me angry. It's that.

LL

I'm rereading my posts and have decided there is nothing anyone can really do right now except let me vent. I truly wish I had someone to call and talk to about this, but I don't. Zero. Nil. Not'a. Can't call parents, can't call sister (she's leaving on vacation early tomorrow--too much on her mind already), can't call a friend, can't call my pastor, can't talk to a coworker. I need a good trusted shoulder to cry on for just a little bit, but there isn't one.

I know, I can talk to God. But he seems very far away.

I think this pretty much sums things up: My XH walked out--I thought I would die without him, because I didn't ever want to be alone. I didn't die...but, I started thinking, "hey, maybe there is someone else out ther for me". Have lived on that hope for a good year now.

And now I'm back to "I'm going to die, because I'm going to be alone forever." But unless I dodge the bullet, it's for real this time. I didn't learn to deal with the thought before. I never became "okay" with spending the rest of my life (as opposed to the year or two I was willing to spend) outside a relationship or without physical intimacy. I feel like that's what I have to get my hands around now. How does one do it--even someone who is a Christian? How do you just relax and smile and say, "Hey, it's all good. I don't need a partner, or a companion, or a lover in my life. I'm fine just the way I am, even if I find myself single-parenting a child until I'm 60 with no family to support me and no involvement from the father."

And just think, 2 minutes spent getting out of his bed and walking out the door at about 2am, instead of letting him convince me it was too late an I needed to stay there and I would be happy as a clam and facing none of this.

LL

For what it's worth LL, you do drama really really good. Not a judgement, and sort of a humor, and an observation...glad you said all you can do is vent...I think that is true, and a little venting can be good for what ails one...maybe you should write all this up and submit it to a magazine, or readers digest or some such....I just know their is some lemonade in here somewhere...and oh yeah, my congrats too on telling the truth.

You know, anxiety can mess up your periods, also. You could maybe even psych yourself into emotionally delaying this one.

Get yourself a basal temperature thermometer and check your temperature every morning and see if that helps or hurts your current distress.

LL, I do think you are worrying WAY too much, and seeing WAY too much into the future. Who has your future all planned out, you or the Lord? You act like if you are PG that is the end of your life, when in reality, no matter what, God makes us a promise in Jeremiah 29:11, For I know the plans I have for you , plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.

I think that shaming yourself for a mistake you made that lots of people make, whether they are 19, 29, 39, or whatever, is a waste of energy, don't forget that God is bigger than our greatest screwups. You obviously seek forgiveness and now you need to stop going the wrong way. Don't forget the passion of the Christ, he KNEW what we would do, he KNEW that you were going to do this, way before you did, and He has a plan for you regardless- a permitted will- do you trust Him enough or are you just going to wallow? HE has a much bigger plan for you, but you act like this is the end of the world somehow.

Warning--more drama coming... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

To me, if by my own choosing I've cost myself the chance sharing my future with someone I love, who loves me, with all that it entails...then right now, it feels like its about the end of the world.

And none of you, being totally honest, can say, "Oh yeah, LL, I'd still consider dating or marrying a 40-yr-old with an infant that isn't mine."

(I know statistically the odds are still in my favor on the PG issue. But I also know someone has to win the lottery.)

LL

I'm afraid my worst fears may be coming true. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I am spotting just slightly right now. I NEVER, EVER, EVER do that between periods. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

However, when the fertilized egg implants in the uterus, a sign of that can be spotting or light bleeding 6-12 days after conception, per what I read.

I want to crawl in a hole. I don't think I escaped this. I truly think I'm freakin' pregnant! From one mess-up! From one mess-up that didn't even complete!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

And I just had the most wonderful conversation about the Christian man's and woman's role, etc. with the guy I"m meeting tomorrow.

Why???? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

LL

I'm not a woman, but can't extreme stress cause this as well? Seems to me I remember reading about this somewhere...

I've been fixed, and am way out of touch with pregnancy kits now, but can't they be used pretty early in the term for testing? I thought those markers showed up pretty quick...

Even so, it would seem pretty unlikely given the scenario you described... I'd lean towards stress...

To my knowledge, stress can cause a host of things (including a late period) but spotting between, especially right about the time implantation would be occurring isn't one of them.

I am sick beyond belief right now with grief, with fear, with sadness, with everything.

I feel like God has turned his back on me because I can't get a grip on my fears, and I'm pretty much 100% certain I'm pregnant given this.

I am pretty in tune with my body, always have been, and knew very early that I was pregnant with both my kids and with the 2 that I miscarried early.

I am scared I'll be alone forever. Scared to death of being a single mother given my already difficult mother responsibilities. Scared I'll lose my home because I can't afford to live here and raise a child. Scared of going through a pregnancy by myself--no support--no one here for me. And honestly, scared I may die, because I have some heart issues that could come into play big time given that pregnancy is a stress on the body, especially at my age.

I want to cry, but can't even do that.

This is the biggest wast of a future that had such potential that I can imagine.

I am shaking. I have no one to talk to.

I'm wondering now if he maybe DID actually sort-of finish and I wasn't aware of it.

LL

Well If I would only follow his instructions lady- do you have a relationship with Jesus Christ, or do you have a rulekeeping book with Jesus? I personally have a relationship. That means I trust Him when I goof up. That means I trust that the blood that He shed for me is much bigger and covers much more than the goofs and screw ups that I have. That means I trust that he knows that I would screw up his LAW and he covered me with his GRACE and he knows my life and will bring me hope and a future with his permitted will no matter what- do you?>
Seems you want to edit his scripture to add that it only works if you do your part- your part is to trust in Him. He DIED for you. You trust in Him. That's the deal. He knows you will sin. That doesn't end when you become a Christian. We blow it even more. And Knight 50 said shame on you in one message and I cringed, you don't need to be shamed anymore- I believe you do a good enough job of shaming yourself. He who has no sin in his life, let him cast the first stone.
The main question here is , do you Trust HIM?

Why not?

Is adoption against your religion?

(((((((((((((((((((((((((LL))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Wow, havent been here for a couple of days. Im glad I checked in.

Relax, no one is perfect. God even forgave and blessed David. Ask God for forgivness and he will help you deal with the consequences. Everyone has given you great advice and support. Let me add my support but I dont want you beating yourself up.

While there is a chance of birth defects in an older mom pregnancy, the reality is that most women your age who find themselves pregnant come through with flying colors and you are at the very low edge of the "Older mom pregnancy" category

Take care and relax, there is nothing you can do right now but wait so keep yourself busy. Check back later.

Deep breath..
smiles,
Dawn

Adgirl,

His blood may cover my sins for eternity, but as stupid and as human as this sounds, I'm scared...right here...right now...down here on earth. I feel as alone as I've ever felt in my life. I feel like all my hopes and dreams (those being a shot at a Christian marriage) are wasted, all because of something that I did.

AFS,

Okay, I tried to call my pastor this morning, but couldn't get him. So I'm still stuck, because once I get to work, I won't have the privacy to be able to talk to him.

Adoption--yes, that's gone through my mind like 10,000 times. Could I give up a baby? I don't know. Do I have the ability to raise one on my own, in my situation, with no support from family or the father--not really.

Sunrise,

I know odds are in my favor as far as a positive outcome with a pregnancy, but odds were also in my favor (should have been WAY in my favor) as far as not being PG, but that is seeming more and more likely as I experience these early signs that point that direction. So I know one can defy odds.

And my biggest fear would be to be alone forever, raising a handicapped child by myself--no companion, no lover, no support. Just me, with it all on my shoulders, and no one to turn to for help.

So I'm strugging. I feel like if I really trusted God, I wouldn't be shaking and making myself sick. I'd just be saying "It's okay, I'm not going to worry about it--what happens, happens." But that's not what's happening, and I can't seem to get a grip and stop the spiral.

LL

Let me add one more thing. I am 49. Since my early 40's there were many times I thought I was pregnant even though we used control (I couldnt take the pill for health reasons)

I experience the same signs as you, cramping and spotting, even though I had never had that before and was pretty in tune with my body as well.

Several times I bought preg tests only to get my period shortly thereafter. And when all was said and done I kicked myself for getting so upset and stressed. It could be just your age playng tricks on your body, at this stage in your life there will be changes. During perimenopause things dont happen the way they always have. I thought monthly periods just got further apart and then stopped. More often it gets more frequent and the bleeding is heavier before it slows down. Point is.. Just relax and dont get upset, I have been there before and stress wont help.

LL,

I just wanted to let you know that I am praying for you. I know there is not much you can do but wait, and I cannot tell you don't worry, but please try to stay as calm as you can.

I am so sorry this has happened to you.

It sounds like you have an answer on that one right there. It's a good thing, not a bad thing, to realistically assess what you can handle well and what's loads you to the point you're not doing things well anymore.

I'm still hoping for a negative pregnancy test. Wierder things than a little spotting have happened to people because of stress. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I really am sorry for how your situation appears to be. But note I stress the word appears, because right now, you're dealing with anger and frustration and disbelief and faithlessness and all those issues.

With that said:


Rom 8:38-39 tells us that:

38For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

WHat does this mean? Nothing we can do can cause God to not love us. Nada. Zero. Zip.

Might you be pregnant? Possibly. There is consequences for sin. And belief in God doesn't get us a free pass to skip the consequences. But he is standing there waiting for you to turn back to him.

Remember that God is always concerned about the relationship. And faith in God has *nothing* to do with feeling. If your relationship with God is based on how you feel about it, then it's not the strong faith-based relationship that you could be having.

Keep in mind too that all things work together for good for those that are called according to his purpose. Does this mean that God planned for you to get pregnant? No. But it does mean that God can use this circumstance to draw you closer to him (if you choose it), and since ultimately, it's the relationship with God that matters, and not our circumstance, we can find peace in that.


John 10:10 tells us that the theif comes to steal kill and destroy. Not just physcially, but mentally. Anything (fear, disbelief, human weakness) that can be used to drive a wedge between you and your Creator he will use to destroy you. The Enemy does not want people to be confident of their place with God, he wants them cowering in fear, wondering if God loves them, wondering if there really is a God.

But the 2nd part of John 10:10 also tells us that Jesus came so that we might have life, and have it abundantly. Fear is not abundant life. Disbelief is not abundant life. Worry is not abundant life.

So you can be *confident* that God wants you victorious in any trial and tribulation that is set before you. IN fact, we know that from 1 Cor 10:13

13No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it.

So OK, you made a mistake in the first test. But you're being tested again, and you can rest assured, there *is* a way for you to get through this, and come out the other side a *stronger*, *better* person.



You could view it that way. But I think there are other options. They're just hard to see right now because of the emotional toil.

Keep talking here, this is a good space for it, and lots of support is available to you.



There is sperm cells in the "pre-ejaculate" or lubricant or whatever you want to call it. So even if he didn't "finish", there's still some little swimmers there somewhere. Unfortunately.

Sunrise,

I so hope you are right! But I just never spot, ever. And I still am, and I'm still crampy. Those, from what I read, would all be very valid signs of pregnancy based on where I am right now. But I admit, I did find one website that said stress can affect hormones enough to cause spotting (doesn't explain the cramping feeling though.) As for perimenopause, I know I'm getting about that age, and I know I've been low on progesterone for years (had to take supplements when pg with my daughter), but I've just been basically regular forever (26-28 days) except for one abnormally short cycle back in January when I only went 22 days. But 20 days is still WAY SHORTER than 22 days. And Im' not having a cycle--it's just very light.

John,

I can't say I'm calm. But I will welcome all prayers for strength for me and resolution for the situation.

MOS,

Yes, adoption is probably the best option. I'm just not sure, even though I don't want another child, that I could give birth and then give it up. I've had 2 children--I understand that mother bond.

Jaye,

I really appreciate your patience in picking apart my post and giving me applicable verses. Maybe this is how God is working and speaking in my life right now--through others who are able to think straight when I'm not, and apply his word to my situation, and really just for all of you on here who are supporting me (not condoning what I did, necessarily) and trying to help me see that it's not the end of the world.

As for the last paragraph of your post, I actually emailed him and asked if I was unaware of anything, and if maybe something escaped before we quit. He is very certain that A) he did not get that far (though yes, there is pre-ejaculate to worry about--different websites say different things as far as whether or not it contains sperm and if so, how many) and B) he really didn't even go as far in as he could have. (But then again, they can swim a distance.)

I wish I'd just turn numb. That'd be better than this.

LL

Well, you certainly sound a bit better.

It woulkd seem that until you get a blood test for pregnancy, short of preparing yourself mentally for either answer, there's not much you can do.

Numbness at first sounds good, because it means we stop feeling. But I submit that this is a tremendous opportunity for you to step back, re-evaluate your faith and your walk, and make some different resolutions about how you're going to proceed going forward. Pregnant or not.

If this turns out just to be a good scare, good. I suspect it'll be a long time before you hear a zipper unzipping on a pair of jeans until well after that new rock is around your finger.

If you are pregnant, there are lots of good options still available to you. And one thing I have learned is that God doesn't reveal his plan to us in one big lump. It gets spoon fed to us when we're ready for it. Baby bites. Probably to keep from scaring us.

I am heartened to hear that you would not consider abortion, that's a very admirable character quality.

I'd encourage you to crack the good book and spend some time in John and Corinthians and work on reprogramming your thinking abit to get rid of those feelings of abandonment or that God is persecuting you.

When you were saved, you became a child of the King. You are not worthless, nor valueless to God. Yes, perhaps a child that made a mistake, but there are no conditions on the love coming from God.

It's up to you to grab on to it, nail the current set of issues up on the cross , repent of the sin that was committed, and throw yourself on God's mercy and grace and let him pick you up and carry you through this.

It reminds me of the picture of the footprints in the sand and Jesus is walking with somebody and there's two sets of footprints, and then after a while, there's one, and the person turns to jesus and asks him why Jesus left him there by himself, and Jesus tells him that he never left, that's when he carried the person...

That same God and Savior is reaching out to you to help you through this. Reach back.

Jaye,

I'm still worried very much, and it wavers back and forth depending on what I'm reading or how bad my cramps are (because they remind me).


I surmise you may be right about that, but the thought I'm dwelling on is the "if I'm pregant, that new rock or new wedding band will never be there..."

Can any of you imagine spending the rest of your life without a partner, without someone to grow old with, without SF ever again? In my head, I know God is there for me regardless, but my heart has never, ever wanted to be a single person. I'm not wired that way.

LL

You sell the King of the Universe pretty short...

If God's plan is for you to be married, do you really think there's anyway ultimately that you're gong to avoid it?

God is not capricious, and he is not sitting up there figuring out ways to mess with your head. But he is waiting for you to develop some faith, and learn to lean on him and trust him to work these things out.

1st Peter 5:7 tells us:

6Humble yourselves, therefore, under God's mighty hand, that he may lift you up in due time. 7Cast all your anxiety on him because he cares for you.

Note *in due time*. We're called as believers not to worry.

Psalm 20:1 tells us:

1 May the LORD answer you when you are in distress;
may the name of the God of Jacob protect you.

James 4:7-8 says:

7Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. 8Come near to God and he will come near to you...

He's there, waiting for you. He's not generally going to club
you over the head with a 2x4. You have to put forth some effort
as well as a sign of obedience.

So I'll ask you again. You obviously want peace, and reassurance,
what's holding you back? Fear (not from God). Doubt (not from God).
Uncertainty (Not from God). See the pattern?


As to getting married again:

Psalm 20:4 tells us:

4 May he give you the desire of your heart
and make all your plans succeed.

Mark 11:24 tells us:
24 So I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.


Once you get through this situation, I'd encourage you to seek the Lord's will for you and finding a mate. Dont' be like Abraham, who thought he'd kind of "give God a boost in fulfiling the promise", by screwing around with Hagar, thinking he was helping God fulfill his plan. Doesn't work like that. God's plans work *in spite* of us.

But that's more a topic for a later date.

Can I imagine all that? Of course! It's what I've expected for most of the last several years. It's what I expect now.

I'm not wired that way either.

Lordslady, I'm aware that there's nothing I can really say that is going to calm your anxiety. In your place, I'm quite sure that I'd be stewing in pretty much the same way, and until you get a valid pregnancy (and STD) test, I doubt that you're really going to be able to process everything. So I'll just say hang in there; at least it's only a couple of weeks.

Well, actually I will say something else, in response to a previous comment of yours:

That's rather presumptious of you, lordslady. In all honesty, I can say that I would consider exactly that. I don't feel any great imperative to pass on my own particular genes, and I have even done a little research into adoption with the idea that, if I were to marry someone my own age, pregnancy was going to be rather an iffy prospect. Having never had any children, I would prefer to start from as close to the beginning as possible (for the whole experience) than to jump into children's lives mid-stream. With one set of children close to leaving the next (or at least pretending so), your potential situation is not far from the realistic ideal for someone in a position like mine.

The bottom line is that you can't know what God intends to work out in your life. You can be sure that if you are pregnant, His plan for you must shift somewhat. Such is the consequence not merely of sin but also of free will. (And remember that what's so bad about sin is not that it gives God an excuse to make us squirm, but that it has consequences which make people He loves unhappy. I still believe that God looks for ways to maximize some combination of faith/joy/service in our lives no matter what choices we make, although He must take into account the needs of others as well as ourselves, which is what prevents Him from simply eliminating all negative consequences when He grants His forgiveness.) God is infinitely adaptable, and He has a lot of resources to work with.

lordslady,

1. It is not true that you need to wait until you are a week late to do a urine pregnancy test. You can now buy them in the store that are accurate MUCH earlier. I know for sure they have them for 4 days late, but I think I may have heard about them even earlier.

2. You are totally focused, in an illogical and unhealthy way on being alone and no man ever wanting you. You were this way BEFORE this event took place. Obviously, that wasn't nearly as true as you thought, given the several men who have shown interest in you as of late.

There are PLENTY of men who would want you with a baby, with an out of control teen, with a handi-capped child. I can tell you with certainty that LostHusband would not have been deterred by any of those things had I been in any of those situations. I used to think no man would want to take on a young divorcee with 2 young children. I was wrong. Also, I even new a girl who was pregnant and was in a horrible situation, was going to abort, and her now husband (whom she's just recently met) said no way! Don't do that, I love you and I'll marry you and take care of you and the baby. You'd never know the child wasn't his.

LL, if we can degate Christ's blood that easily, what are we saying about the worth of his sacrifice? If there's anything you should be worried about in your spiritual life, it is your struggle with unbelief.

(((lordslady)))

I'm sorry you are going through this. Keep us updated, good or bad. (And btw, is a child ever REALLY bad??)

I think:

1) You would have had a better meeting w/ #5 if you had postponed it for a couple of weeks. At this point, your desperation and panic is likely to taint the evening.

2) You are not healed well enough from your divorce to be dating. I say this based on your fixation and desperation for a man. Until you are healthier about being with yourself, you probably aren't healthy enough for a partner.

3) You may want to consider an IUD after this. Not that you intend to run around having sex with lots of men. But, you spend a few minutes at the doctor's office and then have a method of birth control that has a very high success rate and will last for the next 10-12 years.

4) You are so stressed out that you are working yourself into a high state of anxiety and messing up your body's natural chemical balance.

So far, I'm still slightly spotting, still have cramps and a backache, and am still fairly convinced of what I was convinced of before, because this is so unusual for me. I did buy a home PG test (actually 3 of them--package deal) and plan on using the first one on Saturday and going from there. I also have an appointment with my ob/gyn office on Monday for STD tests (thought they won't do a PG test there because I'm still won't have hit the date I'm actually supposed to start my period.

I am trying to hang onto all you guys have said, and I so very much appreciate all your support and your concern. I'm not handling it well (obviously!), and need you guys to keep me thinking half straight.

That said though, I had an absolutely awesome night with the guy I met last night (which is going to make it very, very hard if he has to go away). Not awesome in an "I'm going to get in trouble" way, but awesome in "this guy could seriously be relationship material" way. I feel so comfortable with him. We can, and did, talk about everything. There are conversations we had last night that I never could have shared with my husband during our 19-year marriage, out of fear, or just out of total lack of understanding.

We dined, and we walked around a lake in the dark, and we laughed, and we drove around and checked out where his grandparents used to live (he has some ancient memories from my city though has never lived here), and drove by all my houses I've lived in, and talked and laughed some more.

He doesn't have the story on what happened with the infidelity on my part in my marriage--I'm going to have difficulty explaining that and haven't gone there yet. But other than that, he knows pretty much everything about me and my ex, and I know basically the same about him and his.

I'm just soooo scared this PG thing could screw up what could be a very good opportunity. He does maintain that I shouldn't worry so much about being alone for the rest of my life--that for the right person even though he wasn't wanting more kids, if she came along and it was someone he could spend the next 50 years with, that would override all else. I made the "alone" statement again later in the evening, and he looked at me kind of funny and said "LL, didn't you hear what I said before?".

So, I don't know if he means he'd consider going through this with me, or that he really does think there are guys out there.

But I'm going to insert below the email I got from him last night when he got home, which is actually VERY short compared to most emails (just because he was tired), just so you can get a little taste of what he's like:


(I told him about how the guy from northern Iowa had our futures about all planned out, and how we had all these similarities, and then how I found I shared the same name has his deceased sister-in-law, and how the whole situation sort of freaked me out.)

LL

LL,

This has nothing to do with your post or your situation but I feel a need to comment on this:

"I can do everything through him who gives me strength."
Phillipians 4:13

Please take this portion out of that--

(If I would only follow his instructions....)

Your being able to do all things through Christ has nothing to do with "you following His instructions" but everything to do with the indwelling Holy Spirit. He alone gives you strength you just need to rest in that.

TR,

It's done. I didn't mean he'll only give me strength if I follow his instructions. It was more meant as, "Now if I could just follow his instructions..." (that may make no sense). But at any rate...gone.

LL,

Or maybe more, "now if I could only trust more in that truth"

LL,

Hope this puts your mind at ease a bit. When I was pregnant with DS (now almost 4), I had implantation cramping and bleeding - but it wasn't continual, was barely noticeable - certainly didn't result in what I would call "spotting" only a little blood on the tp after I went to the bathroom. The cramping was VERY mild - almost like constipation, not true menstrual cramping. If you are having it for longer that a few hours and it is requires the use of a pad or a change in underwear, I would be very surprised if it is implantation bleeding.

Also, I was 40 at the time of my pregnancy and he is a VERY healthy little boy.

Hope this helps give you some peace,

BB

BB,

In response (and guys or other who are squeamish, you can ignore this post):

I am still cramping today--it's sometimes very mild and then when I sit for a while it becomes more toward moderate (but then again, my pain tolerance is very high because I used to have severe cramps when I was younger). And my back aches, too, off and on. It feels like menstrual cramps.

And yesterday, the spotting was just that--very light--left one tiny spot but other than that just showed up on TP. Today, however, it's gotten noticable enough that it's more like slight bleeding and does require a pantyliner, though is still too light for me to consider it my actual cycle by any means.

All the stuff on implantation bleeding says different things. Some say exactly what you did--that it's barely noticeable and that cramping or backache shouldn't be involved. Others say you can have mild cramping as the egg implants and that the bleeding can be heavier. Some people obviously even have periods when pregnant, but I don't think that's what I'm taking about right now, and I never did with either of my other two.

I am just so wanting to believe there might be a small chance I'm not PG. I know I just met this guy for the first time in person last night, and that doesn't constitute anything in terms of a relationship. But he is just so different from any of the others I've met. It's hard to explain the feeling, but it's just one of those "gut things" where I really don't feel apprehensive about him (and I know a LOT about him)--quite the contrary, I feel very comfortable sharing just about anything with him.

(I can overlook his love for Kenny Chesney and the fact that he doesn't care for contemporary Christian music. We agreed on Tom Petty last night and listened to that while driving.)

LL

LL..

I hope it isn't too late by now for this to be relevent..but here I plunge in anyway.

Let's deal with the physical aspects first. The morning after pill will not abort an existing pregnancy..it is only progestrone..a pregnancy hormone that will make implantation unlikely.

The odds of having a PG from a single incident are about 8%.

The odds are in your favor..however I would personally advise taking the pill anyway because you probably are NOT in a great position to carry and raise another child. Last time I looked your plate was more than full..there is more to be considered and you have spelled it out quite clearly..this is not an ideal or really even an acceptable circumstance to bring a child into intentionally..I agree..years of hardship for the both of you.

If you decide to take the pill a clinic would give it to you immediately..there is probably a womens clinic or family planning clinic in your area..call and tell them you have an emergency..they will not judge you and they will almost certainly be willing to provide what you need.

So having covered that..I'm not sure what all of the hullaballu is about. You had sex outside of marriage, you regret it, it doesn't change your faith or anything really relevent. This incident probably HAS alerted you to a weak and vulnerable area of your life that hopefully you will address when the crisis has abated..seeking out relationships with men who are..shall we say..good entertainment but not life partner material.

Take a deep breath LL. This isn't very likely to be something you back on years from now in shame and despair. Take action. Be tested and deal with the potential PG if that is acceptable to you.

Best wishes,

Noodle

Hey, I can be of some use here. HE MEANS HE WOULD CONSIDER GOING THROUGH THIS WITH YOU!!

LL, I don't know everything, but I do know that he would not have said this if that is not what he meant. God has your situation completely under control, even if it does not feel like it now.

Noodle,

Thanks for your thoughts, but..

First, I can't do the morning after pill simply because I still see it as sort of a chemical abortive agent, because it causes the fertilized egg not to be able to implant. It doesn't necessarily stop fertilization.

Second, I'm WAY past the 72 hour timeframe. That passed last Saturday, so what's done is done.

Aslan,

I would so much like to believe you are right, but I go back and forth. Sometimes, I'd think he was sort of saying "if I think you're the right woman, your issues won't stop me".

But then, like, when he mentioned how on his drive home he had a lot more time to reflect (see the email I inserted in my post), and then started going on about how God doesn't give us more than we can bear, I think he's saying that he's had lots of time to think and to reconsider (because there was no mention in that email of a second date), but that I shouldn't worry, that God won't give me more than I can handle if I am PG.

See, I analyze everything to death. And in this case it's just because he seems so awesome, and the timing is so horrible.

LL

Well, I read his email as very positive. I think he was saying that if you are the right girl, nothing will stop him. LL, God is watching out for you. It was not that long ago that you thought that no man would want a flat chested divorced woman, and you found that your sweet spirit was more important than big breasts. Then you say that no one would want a 40 yo pregnant woman & God let you meet a man who tells you that he would love a woman for who she is, not whether she had a young child.

Perhaps you should stop challenging God & He will stop showing you that His plans are greater than His doubts. God loves you and He will never leave you. If a child is on the way, I believe it will be a blessing you cannot imagine. Even if you decide to give it up for adoption, you will have given it a home. No matter what happens, keep your eyes on God.

I know it is difficult. Every night, I go home to a woman who has told me that she would much prefer that she was wealthy than for me to be happy. She has woken me up screaming an inch from me and punched me in the face and denied doing it. Let me tell you, it is hard to believe that God still loves me and live this way. But I must, and you must, too.

Don't miss one of God's blessings by wallowing in your own sadness. So how is your little girl these days?

I'm a long time lurker, but I felt compelled to post to you. Your symptoms (spotting, backache, cramps) all sound like you are about to get your period. I predict you'll get it, full blown, in the next couple of days.

My periods went from 26 days ( I swore by how regular I was) to 21-24 days when I was stressed.

Good luck LL, but I have a feeling all your worries are for naught......

DW

DW,

I'm trying to be positive about this. Still worrying a great deal, but can't find out for sure for several days yet so am hoping you are right and things happen very soon for me. If not, I'm doing the first of my 3 home pregnancy tests on Saturday, and going to the doctor for STD tests on Monday morning. I definitely am stressed, to the point I was pretty much shaking by last Monday and Tuesday.

Everyone,

On a different note, I will share a couple parts of the most recent email I received from aforementioned awesome guy. I sent him a quick email earlier and happened to mention how I was going to miss his emails next week when he was on Ragbrai, because he was spoiling me with writing daily. He just sent this about 45 minutes ago. I haven't responded yet, but just wanted to share. (Did I mention how much I really like him???)


He wrote another novel, answering all the questions I'd come up with since last night like my asking him what his top 4 things are that he's looking for in a partner, his feelings on blending families, and other stuff.

And then he ended it with this (I'd asked him if he cared to explain what he was reflecting on during his drive home.)



I really don't want to screw this one up guys! Maybe I'll find out he's an axe murderer, but it feels really right at the moment. Please pray for me that this all works out. I don't deserve it based on what I did. I deserve consequences.

LL

You haven't even met him and you're asking him the top 4 things he's looking for in a partner? While you are in this huge panic about being pregnantwith some other man's baby?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

??? HUH ???

No, I met him last night. And the reason I got to ask him this today is because he asked me last night what I was looking for, so I gave him my top 4.

We've written I couldn't tell you how many very long emails to each other over the last week or two--most have been very in-depth about our beliefs, our values, and any number of other things. And we email back and forth pretty much daily.

Then, the first time he called me, which has been a week ago, our phone conversation lasted 189 minutes! (Yes, over 3 hours!) And we only gave it up at that point because it was after 1am, I had to work and he had class, and our phones were both on chargers because they were running down. We've had several additional lengthy phone conversations since then (none that quite made it that long), and then last night we were together for a good 4 hours or so, dining, walking, driving around, and talking--a lot.

I pretty much have his history from childhood, his beliefs of a Christian man's role in a relationship vs. a Christian woman's, the entire history of his 15-year marriage as well as quite a bit on the two other long term relationships he's been in since he divorced 5 years ago. He knows about my marriage, the issues with my ex's alcoholism/drugs, my daughter's struggles in school and with life (he's a special ed teacher so that's where we sort of started, and his brother has many traits of ADHD though back in those days was never diagnosed, so he has a good understanding).

I know all about his kids--he knows all about mine. It goes on and on....

So I really don't think it was wierd my asking him that question. It was just another of our questions to each other.

Like I said, I am able to talk to him about things was never able to talk to my own husband about in 19 years of marriage.

So, even though we've only met once in person, I actually know way more about him than I've know about any of the other guys I dated, even those I went out with more than once (and sadly, way the heck more than I knew about the guy I slept with).

None of the other guys I was with felt all that much like long-term relationship material. This guy--if he said "LL, I'd like to see you and you see me only", I'd jump at the chance. And actually, I don't think he's seeing anyone else right now, because I get a synopsis each night of how he spent his day.

And as for being in the panic about being PG with someone else's baby, he is full well aware of that. The cards are on the table. Yes, that frightens me--that he may well walk if I am PG. But at least he knows upfront the situation.

LL

Well, how are you?

Praying for you,
Dawn

It's been a while since I posted, so thought I'd update.

First, I have to say, my Wednesday night date did me a world of good. Just the fact that he was willing to drive 275 miles round trip to meet me, given what I'd dumped on him said a lot about him. And then we had a very nice night, despite the issues going on, and he has emailed me several times, very in-depth stuff as usual, since our date. And he's made it very clear he finds me interesting.

But what is probably even better news is that as of today, I'm finally believing that I'm not PG. The cramping has persisted all week. The spotting did to, but finally today it's gotten heavier. Still not exactly a normal cycle, and still quite a bit earlier than normal, but the two of you gals who mentioned that you've had this happen--we'll, I'm thinking you may be right about me.

I'm still probably going to do a PG test on Sunday or Monday just to be sure, and I still have the Dr. appt on Monday to check for STD's.

But the relief I'm feeling right now is just about unbelievable. I'm exhausted though. Total lack of sleep this week, I haven't eaten well, and when my anxiety kicks in, my metabolism goes into overdrive. I've lost 6 pounds since Monday. So although I have tons of things that need done around the house because I haven't touched it all week, between stressing, working, and going out on Wednesday, I'm going to try and get a good night sleep tonight. It'll all be there in the morning.

I owe God an incredible "thank you" for pulling me through this, pretty much despite myself. I am not impressed with how I collapsed (although we are talking about a pretty major issue here!).

At any rate, God did prove that He can do things with something that looked hopeless to me. Who knows, maybe this was what I needed to get me out of something that wasn't good for me at all and point me in a direction that might have real potential.

That said, this new guy was supposed to go on Iowa's big bike ride starting tomorrow, but some things happened in his brother's in-law's family and now he and his brother can't leave until Wednesday, so they'll only be able to do the last half of the ride. Bad for him, but he contacted me today asking if I was busy over the weekend.

So, this time I'm driving the 275 miles round trip tomorrow afternoon (he would have come here again, but I sort of insisted it was my turn) and he's taking me to see things I've never seen before on his side of the state.

I'm excited. He survived the major bombshell this week. He and I have had the no-sex-before-marriage talk and did pretty well with that (he agrees that we aren't supposed to, according to God's word, though had to admit that he did finally become intimate in both of the long-term relationships he's had since his DV five years ago.) There is, of course, more past that I should eventually share with him, but right now I think I've shared a plenty. I think it's time for us to both breathe and just take things easy and see what happens.

--------------------------------------------------------
So, with this update, unless things turn around for the worse again, we're going to consider this very painful chapter of things to be done. You all have no idea how much all your advice and support has meant to me!! I have no idea what I'd done (besides go totally bananas!) if I'd not had you to talk to!

I may reflect on everything for a bit and do a separate "what I learned" post, though.

LL

Not to be a wet blanket, but this would be way premature IMO. Why do you want to jump at the chance of committing exclusivity to a guy you hardly know (and I do not buy the argument that your long conversations mean that you know him.) Like I posted on many occassions, words are very cheap and poweful, and many people out there in dating land know how to say exactly the right things to take your breath away. Especially when it's all done in one 4 hour long conversation. Real connection comes from getting to know a person over many months, not over one all-nighter conversation.

You have just gone through a very difficult and scary experience, and I think that you were in a very weakened and vulnerable state - and this new guy happened to step into your life at the right time and acted as your crutch. That is fine. But please spend some time getting to know him from a position of strength, instead of one of panic and the feeling of "no one will ever want me".

By all means, go out and see this guy, but slow down on the whole exclusivity and soulmate stuff - if it is meant to be, it'll happen. Don't give away your heart too quickly, it is something to be cherished and protected until it is earned.

AGG

AGG,


Okay, to clarify. I'm not thinking I'm getting married in the next month or anything. But as exciting in a way as seeing multiple guys and just trying to be "social" was(which didn't work so hot anyway), what I found is that it is hard for me to concentrate on multiple guys, schedule multiple guys, and frankly, it just never did feel really right. Just the way I'm wired, I guess. I'd rather concentrate on just one at a time, if I can find one worth concentrating on. And no, perhaps I don't know him, but I do know a lot about him now.

Sure, there are zillions of things I need to find out about this guy as far as what he's like to be around on a regular basis.

And don't take this personally, but I cringe when I hear the term "soulmate". Probably has something to do with the whole BS/WS and OW thing. I think there are people in this world that we're well suited for and people we're not. But to say we have this "soulmate" out there, I don't so much buy that. All relationships take work, and none will just float along in bliss by themselves (which is what the interpretation of soulmate would seem to suggest.)

However, I do think he's a very intriguing guy from what I've seen so far, and I'm most interested in getting to know him better.

So that's what I'm going to try and do.

As for giving away my heart, if you mean about all the long in-depth conversations, that'd actually require a complete personality switch from me. Right or wrong, good or bad, I'm a very open person. It's just who I am. I have been told by many that I wear my heart on my sleeve. I know that's a prescription for disaster with the wrong person, but it is who I am and who I've always been. Some people are very reserved, and some aren't. People who meet me are probably going to get the latter, if I'm comfortable with them. On the plus side, I find that if I'm open with others, it seems to make them a lot more comfortable about opening up to me (didn't work with the EX though.)

LL

Understood. I am actually the same way, it is nearly impossible for me to be seeing more than one person at a time. I can't keep everyone's story, family situation, kids' names, jobs, etc, straight if I am in contact with five different women. So I understand.

However, there is a happy medium between multiple dating 5 people simultaneously and being exclusive with one person. That happy medium is the one that I try to shoot for at the outset, and it is the one I am recommending to you. It is the medium where you have met someone, you are intrigued by them, and you are interested in seeing this person again - BUT, you don't start making COMMITMENTS to exclusivity (not marriage, but exclusivity). Please realize that exclusivity is a very big commitment, and should not be made lightly, or after one date.

Again, I have made that mistake several times, and what happens is that I get involved with someone who seems awesome, great connection, etc, and we become exclusive, and all of sudden on the fourth date she unloads some bomb on me or I just discover something about her that is a deal breaker for me, and suddenly we have to "break up", with all the associated hurt feelings and drama.

So what I am suggesting is go ahead and see the guy, and don't date anyone else if you don't want to, but don't make these promises and commitments of exclusivity, just enjoy his company, observe his behaviors, but don't start mentally picking out the wedding dress. If all goes well, great; if not, well, this is why we date.

AGG

You seem to be doing so much better than the last time I read & responded to one of you post. That was probably around Valentine's. I am glad to see you are doing better and moving on. Things are horrible for me. I am getting the divorce I never wanted. I feel dark, depressed, lonely, pathetic, shattered, etc. I wish I could fast forwadr three years into the future. If it was not for my three beautiful kids I would curl up in a ball and die.

I'm glad I read this tonight AGG. I just got off the phone with my 1st phone conversation with a guy I have e-mailed with a couple of times. I'm already mentally picking out the wedding dress and moving my furniture into his house. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> The conversation just flowed so well... and we laughed.... and it was a short conversation so it left me wanting more... *sigh* OK OK ... I'll chill out, I promise. GOtta get to know him... gotta meet him first. LOL

Well, as far as I can tell, things are still looking promising on the front that caused this whole mess of a thread for me. I still won't be for certain until all the test check out okay, but I'm feeling a whole lot better.

Now, as for this new guy, though:

While neither of us have even suggested the word "exclusivity", I fully plan on dating no one else as long as I'm seeing him. In fact, I'm seriously considering hiding my profile on Match, because I"m not interested at this moment.

A long distance relationship is not going to be easy, but let me tell you I drove 225 of the easiest miles today that I've driven in a while.

Met him over in his area and we had a wonderful day! I just got home--it's almost 2am! We met his brother and wife at a Mexican restaurant for dinner (he has to think at least a little of me if he's already comfortable having me meet his family).


Lots of things made it wonderful, but I think the clincher is this...

He has an awesome singing voice!! He had joked around a while back about listening to Kenny Chesney (I haven't been into country music for some time now, so haven't really ever heard any of his stuff) and told me how he and his son like to sing to some of the songs. I told him I'd have to hear that sometime.

Well, he got brave and let me hear it tonight while we were driving around--to both Kenny Chesney and Tim McGraw. And I about fell out of the car seat! He claims to be a shower singer...said he really never sang much until a few years ago. I just sat there with this big smile pasted to my face for like 30 minutes.

(I am a music nut. I've always thought how nice it'd be if I met someone who could play piano or guitar. Never thought about finding someone who could sing. It's very nice!)

So, I'm thinking we probably will have a third date... Could always be wrong??

LL

You kind of spend a lot of time riding an emotional pendulum don't you... Nothing wrong with being a feeler, but it must be quite a ride.

My new/old boyfriend (LOL I never know what to call him.We apre planning on being married, but thats so far away, and fiance sounds so 20'ish and i am almost 50), anyway, I had forgotten how nice he sang I remember hearing him a couple of times in church at camp long, long ago. I had totally forgotten that part of him.

While we were apart in the 80's he sang in a gospel group and they made a couple of albums. He copied them on CD for me and gave them to me the first time we met after 32 years so I could catch up with what he did with his life.

I was so amazed!!!!!! He has several solos on the album and I love to just put it in and hear his wonderful voice when we are apart. A few weeks after he gave CD to me, he took it back and when he brought it back 2 weeks later it had new song added. He recorded the song in his own wonderful voice "I will be here" for me and it made me cry. He is planning on singing it at our wedding.

I WILL BE HERE: Steven Curtis Chapman

Tomorrow morning if you wake
up and the sun does not appear
I will be here
If in the dark, we lose sight of love
Hold my hand, and have no fear
'Cause I will be here

I will be here
When you feel like being quiet
When you need to speak your mind
I will listen
And I will be here
When the laughter turns to cryin'
Through the winning, losing and trying
We'll be together
I will be here

Tomorrow morning, if you wake up
And the future is unclear
I will be here
Just as sure as seasons were made for change
Our lifetimes were made for these years
So I will be here

I will be here
And you can cry on my shoulder
When the mirror tells us we're older
I will hold you
And I will be here
To watch you grow in beauty
And tell you all the things you are to me
I will be here

I will be true to the promise I have made
To you and to the One who gave you to me

Tomorrow morning, if you wake up
And the sun does not appear
I will be here
Oh, I will be here

Unfortunately, that does seem to be the way I have always been wired. The only time I'm not feeling my emotions is when I'm really, really depressed, and then they're just sort of dead. Let it be said, A/D medication does NOT have to take away a person's emotions (I'm still taking Lexapro).

But yes, this week has been quite a ride. I haven't experienced this level of swings probably since the ex's affair started.

I told myself on my drive home last night, and continue to try and tell myself now, "Don't get your hopes up about this guy, LL. It's very early. He may get tired of you after another date or so."

But I really do like him, I feel very comfortable around him, I enjoyed the heck out of hearing him belt out the tunes, and well, he did earn some major "heart" points when he chose to pursue this despite thinking I might be pregnant. And as of yesterday, when I met him the second time, he was still not sure because I hadn't given him the latest update, and when we were getting ready to go to dinner at a Mexican restaurant, he smiled and jokingly said, "But LL, you can't have a marguerita right now." That's when I told him, "Yes, if I want to, I believe it's safe for me." (Granted, I CHOSE not to anyway.)

I truly don't think some "user" who was just looking for a quick lay or a little casual fun would be willing to pursue something like that (though maybe they would see it as some sick thrill?).

Sunrise1,

Wow...that sounds really, really awesome!

LL

LL: I know you didn't just say that! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

FR

Okay, attempt #2 to explain myself:

It would be my thought that if someone was out looking for something easy, pursuing a woman who might be pregnant (which thank the Lord I don't believe I am at this point!), who has made it very clear her intentions about SF before marriage again (and I have already had that talk with him, prior to meeting him the first time) wouldn't be #1 on their list.

There are a lot of for-sure-not-pregnant, okay-with-casual-sex women who would be a lot less effort for them.

My point: This guy is making one heck of an effort. I really do think he's sincere. (I met his brother and sis-in-law yesterday, and tonight he emailed me and said he thought they were pretty at-ease and impressed with me.) Generally one doesn't say these things to someone they're going to use and toss away. Do they??? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Oh, and I might mention, he has not yet kissed me, but in his email tonight he asked me to elaborate on what I felt was appropriate for the beginning stages of a relationship (which I guess means we're going to have a date #3) and beyond, because he admits he's an affectionate person--likes to cuddle--but doesn't want to overstep any boundaries or make me feel uncomfortable. (I actually hugged HIM when I left last night.)

That's a bit of a change from the last guy...

LL

Don't "want" something so bad that you read into stuff what isn't explicitly there. Talk is cheap. You know that you have given into temptation at least once recently. Just relax and be confident that if it's *supposed* to happen, it will.

Rather than worrying about if *you* think it should continue, or what any of us think, perhaps see what the man upstairs thinks about the whole situation. Unless that signature line is just for show...

Jaye,

Totally agree! My prayer to God recently has basically been to not let me screw this up if it IS supposed to continue, and if it's NOT, to please protect my heart. And yes, I've also prayed for self-control, given that I made such a big mess last week and that I've been without "things" (other than last week) for a long time now.

Talk is cheap--you're right. I'm looking at actions. So far, they've been more than honorable.

LL