1. When you found that your spouse cheated, did you end up falling out of love with them? If so, when did the love return? Were there stretches of time where you felt there was no love towards the WS?
2. Did you ever feel like giving up? Did you give up? What made you want to work it out/stay?
3. Did you go to counseling/coaching?
4. Were you receptive to your spouse's apologies, attempts to work out it out and trying to meet your EN?
5. Did your sex life suffer? Was it awkward to have sex for a while?
6. What did your WS do to help you understand that he/she realized the errors made, and would do anything to help you recover?
7. How did your WS demonstrate his/her remorse, and total commitment to helping you heal?
8. What things were helpful in the recovery process? (Actions, words, affection, etc)

Sorry I am just looking for some insight. Any answers are greatly appreciated.

1. It is very difficult to describe what I did feel regarding "love" feeling. I think the immediate reaction was the feeling of losing something very important. As usual, we do magically want something right from the moment when we have lost it :-). Real love started to return in a year after D-Day.

2. Yes. No. All other options were not feasible.

3. No

4. Yes. But you have to be consistent and sincere, one apology will be not enough.

5. Initially: hysterical bonding. But sex life suffered later (comparing hysterical bonding) and yes, it was awkward but not always.


You are still in the very beginning. Not even 6 months from D-Day. There will be anger periods around 6 months and around a year when your BH is so angry that for him it is difficult to speak to you.

But it all shall pass when the amount of pleasant memories will overcome the bad ones.

Thank you for your response.

I did not immediately fall of of love. I felt a sense of tremendous loss. I fell out of love afterwards, when the reality of the situation started to set in and I came to accept that she was not the person I M'd. Currently, while I love her, I'm not in love with her. I know, I know, sounds quite wayward-like, but I'm not wayward and have no plans to be wayward. Perhaps how I feel now is as a result not only of her choice to have an A, but also of how badly our recovery has gone.



Many times. Not yet. Going requires more effort than staying.



No. She has refused counseling, and at this point I couldn't be bothered.



Her first apologies were of the "false" type (e.g. "I'm sorry you were hurt", rather than "I'm sorry that I hurt you", and angered me more than anything else . It took her a while to actually apologize to me in a way that actually resembled a true apology. And yes, she has tried to meet some of my ENs, the ones she believes are important.



Our sex life suffered for a brief while, then got significantly better when the "hysterical bonding" set in, then went back to almost nothing after about two years or so. As most of the time now I don't actually WANT to have sex with her (while that may be due to changes in my needs, it's also difficult to find almost constant bitching and fault-finding attractive), it doesn't bother me as much as it used to.

I can imagine the need you feel right now for a feeling of "hope" for the recovery of your marriage, and asking these types of questions of folks who are farther along the betrayal/exposure/recovery continuum may provide some comfort for you.

There will likely not be unanimity in any answer, and even if there were, I hope you know that trying to apply that "norm" to any one situation is not advisable. If 73% of your responders say "yes" to a question, and your BS continues to answer "no", please be ready to accept that for 100% of your universe the answer remains, legitimately, "no". It's not his failure, or tardiness, or problem, that he cannot now conform to what the average BS answers.

There is also a huge bias on this site towards participation by the BS's who had massively strong tendencies toward saving their marriages. Their pre-A relationships might have been better that the usual, their personal commitment toward the vows they made might have been more ironclad, their vision of the need to repair the breach could have been more immediate because of children, etc. The point is that THE VAST MAJORITY of BS's never (unfortunately) find the need to find this site and agree to do the work to create a stronger union.

In their absence, therefore, you're not going to see adequate numbers of responses as:
1. When you found that your spouse cheated, did you end up falling out of love with them? If so, when did the love return?
Yes. It never did.
2. Did you ever feel like giving up? Did you give up? What made you want to work it out/stay?
Yes, yes, nothing, decided on divorce.
3. Did you go to counseling/coaching?
No
4. Were you receptive to your spouse's apologies, attempts to work out it out and trying to meet your EN?
No
5. Did your sex life suffer? Was it awkward to have sex for a while?
It ended, never to return.

Remember also, the decision by your BS to attempt to recover is a massive, incalculably valuable GIFT to you. When a donor make a $$ gift to a library, it's not likely that the donee canvasses other donors to determine if their "gift" matches up in quantity and delivery schedule with what other groups have received, and if their donor made a large enough gift in terms of what he had to give.

So if other peoples' experiences are going to be helpful, you should be looking to guide YOUR actions. In doing so, you're going to find that very soon, you should be asking the "What", and "How" questions. As in:

What did your WS do to help you understand that he realized the errors made, and would do anything to help you recover?

How did your WS demonstrate his remorse, and total commitment to helping you heal?

I would urge you to read the tracts available on this site, and, assuming your BS is on-board, start today using the M principles to refound your relationship.

For what it's worth, my answers are

1) No, No
2) No, No, Remembrance of my commitment to my vows
3) Yes
4) Yes
5) No, No

ETA: I just discovered that you have another thread active, and have been on this site for awhile, so you are more familiar with the value of the content of this site than I assumed in my answer. Most of the other stuff applies, however.

Hi there LL123,

1. when I found out I just felt so hurt and disappointed, I still loved my husband it was the hurt of thinking he wasn't in love with me, you can't love your spouse if you are having an affair........I think the lack of respect I felt was also a biggy, we had been together 27 years, I though I deserved more from him.....even if it was just because I was the mother of his children.......You leave if you are not happy, you don't intentional hurt someone else......
2. Of course every BS goes through that giving up period, the pain you feel is just so bad you want it to stop.....giving up gives you that. For me after 3 weeks of thinking about how my life would be and the fact that I was always taught to fight for what is yours, and in my gut I knew if I didn't try then I would always wonder, 27 years, a family and a life to me was worth a little more time to see if things could be fixed.
3. I go for IC, I was already going I have an illness to deal with as well, so it seemed natural to go and talk about the self esteem issues something like this does to you.........
4.I was grateful for my husband remorse and apologies....he did a complete turn around but it took a few months for him to come out of his affair fog and realize what he had done to our lives and our marriage vows. I think he would do just about anything now to make things right, but in reality our lives have changed forever and I still have a hard time thinking he means it, when you feel like you were replaced it's hard to understand how you still could be the one he wants.....but that is my issue.............
5.At first I had that hysterical bonding thing going on, sex was never an area we had difficulty with. That said I find myself with thought of did he do this with her, was it better, that kind of stuff...........but I just try to stay in the moment and that seems to work.....
I think if you are trying to work things out with your husband you have to just take your time with him and enjoy that, don't bring the past into it..........today and tomorrow is what I focus on..............

Thank you to those of you who have responded.

Yes, I am looking for some hope as well. Every day since last week, he talks about our relationship like it's going to end when the 16 months pass by. I am just wanting to know the answers to my questions and any other information that I can do to help my BS. I have read the MB site through the affair section and basic concepts. I have 2 of his books, His Needs/Her Needs and How to Survive an Affair.

1. When you found that your spouse cheated, did you end up falling out of love with them? If so, when did the love return?
*No, finding out actually made me sure about the love I have for.

2. Did you ever feel like giving up? Did you give up? What made you want to work it out/stay?
*Everyday a small part of me thinks about giving up.....even still. But love and his current self make me keep trying.

3. Did you go to counseling/coaching?
*Yes, we did mc for a few moths.

4. Were you receptive to your spouse's apologies, attempts to work out it out and trying to meet your EN?
*Pretty receptive...in fact in the first several months needed quite a bit and he was eagerly available.

5. Did your sex life suffer? Was it awkward to have sex for a while?
*No, we actually experienced hysterical bonding. It has since slowed way down.

6. What did your WS do to help you understand that he/she realized the errors made, and would do anything to help you recover?
*Lots and lots of talking. He often would answer the same questions over and over again. This is why 15-20 hrs is so important. Especially in the beginning.

7. How did your WS demonstrate his/her remorse, and total commitment to helping you heal?
*His willingness to do the hard work and help me deal with my pain.

8. What things were helpful in the recovery process? (Actions, words, affection, etc)
*All of the above!!!

You've received several good responses to your post but here are my answers for what they're worth.

1. When you found that your spouse cheated, did you end up falling out of love with them? If so, when did the love return?

No

2. Did you ever feel like giving up? Did you give up? What made you want to work it out/stay?

Yes. No. I couldn't see throwing away 26 years for a couple of mistakes on her part. It took several months to see it that way though.

3. Did you go to counseling/coaching?

Yes, counseling

4. Were you receptive to your spouse's apologies, attempts to work out it out and trying to meet your EN?

Yes

5. Did your sex life suffer? Was it awkward to have sex for a while?

Yes. Yes, it was alomsot impossible to have sex and not have those mental images pop into my head. But she was dealing with the same thing too and it always upset her to realize all over again what she had done.

6. What did your WS do to help you understand that he/she realized the errors made, and would do anything to help you recover?

Countless hours of talking and reading together.

7. How did your WS demonstrate his/her remorse, and total commitment to helping you heal?

Committing to the MB principals, establishing boundaries and new rules, and, again, hours and hours of talking.

8. What things were helpful in the recovery process? (Actions, words, affection, etc)

Actions were all that I was looking for at the time. She could say anything to just be saying it but I had to see actions. After several months the words began to mean something and the affection began to feel genuine and not forced.

Recon posted a very good comment above referring to memories. When the pleasant memories outnumber the bad ones you start to feel better about the whole situation. The length of time that takes is unique to each person and situation though.

We are at D-day + 3 days and my thoughts and feelings today are far different than they were even 6 months ago. I've managed to bring good memories and positive thoughts into my life again and now those outnumber the bad things by far.

Thank you for the replies so far.

I am hoping that day will happen soon where the good outweigh the bad and the love returns.

1. When you found that your spouse cheated, did you end up falling out of love with them? If so, when did the love return? Were there stretches of time where you felt there was no love towards the WS?

I did not "fall out of love" with him.
I fell out of respect. Instantaneously.
I fell into severe distaste of him within about a week.
I felt embarrassed and confused that I still felt love for H under the circumstances.





2. Did you ever feel like giving up? Did you give up? What made you want to work it out/stay?

Yes.
The desire to give up was usually when I felt overwhelmed by grief.
The decision to stay was incremental and conditional on HIS efforts.
I did not KNOW 100% I would stay married to him for a few years.
I'd say in my mind: "OK. I'll stay for 6 more months and then see where we are."


3. Did you go to counseling/coaching?

Yes.
H & I went to a marriage counselor recommended by our church Deacon.
This was BEFORE MB web site was begun.
So, we did our recovery without the benefit of this site.
I would have helped both of us to have MB.
So, there you are.


4. Were you receptive to your spouse's apologies, attempts to work out it out and trying to meet your EN?

I was not particularly receptive right away because I saw him as a liar and a fraud. No respect, remember?
Not to mention, H is an alcoholic who was suddenly agreeable to AA.
The marriage therapist told my H to tell me: "I will do whatever it takes for as long as it takes."
And, my H would ask me daily: "What can I do for you today?"


ADDED: I forgot to mention that it was HUGE for me that H made apologies to OWH, my parents, his parents. This was HUGE because these were actions of courage which made my "respect-of-husband" meter go up.


5. Did your sex life suffer? Was it awkward to have sex for a while?

It was interesting.
There was passion.
There was a lot of sex.
There were tears during sex.
There was hatred (on my part) during sex.
If that is awkward, then there it is.


6. What did your WS do to help you understand that he/she realized the errors made, and would do anything to help you recover?

He went to counseling and followed instructions.
His actions (mostly) matched his words.
He did have some slip ups.
Not by breaking "NC" with OW, but his slip ups involved telling lies.
That was mostly his alcoholism during his early AA recovery. He just had his 15th AA birthday.


7. How did your WS demonstrate his/her remorse, and total commitment to helping you heal?

He wrote me letters.
He read whatever book I asked him to read.
He lived on the couch for a few months without complaining.
He went on walks with me while I ranted or cried or otherwise released my anger and grief.
H did not break NC.


8. What things were helpful in the recovery process? (Actions, words, affection, etc)

For me, ACTIONS meant more than words or affection even.
He did all 3, but actions were measurable.
Early recovery I thought he was a liar and his every word a lie.
Early recovery his affection felt like self-betrayal to me because I did not understand HOW I might still enjoy affection from a man I did not trust, I did not respect and was fairly certain I would eventually divorce.


We're happily married 15 years after his affair.

Your milage may vary.

Hang in there !

No, not immediately. My initial reaction was to protect and support my FWW. I am, by nature, a caregiver and try to be understanding as possible. However, after some time the pain and anger set it, then yes. I currently vacillate - the best explanation of what happens I have ever heard is by a poster named BrokenVase; the betrayal shattered my LB$ - while it has been pieced together, every time she pours water in, the damage and holes allow it to leak out. It cannot be kept full without copious amounts added all the time (20+ hours a week for recovery, 15+ to maintain).




There are stretches of time where I want to give up every day. I haven't given up myself, I have asked permission of my FWW to walk. She has denied that request each and every time.

What makes me want to stay is I don't really have anything to lose by giving it a shot, do I? Her actions destroyed the one thing that meant everything to me, what motivated me in every action in my life. I have nothing now but a gamble - I'm hoping I hit the progressive jackpot. If not, I can still cash in and gain; I will have learned to become a better friend, lover, and husband.


The entire extent of our experience has been done through the online articles, the forums, and the SAA book - we have also watched some of the HNHN for Parents video.


Receptive, yes. Sometimes they don't do a thing. Sometimes her apologies and attempts bounce right off. I've got a shell around me, and she is tossing handfuls or rice at me trying to nourish me. Every once in a while, a grain finds a crack in that shell and makes it through. However, it takes handfuls each time to try to hit the cracks.


We are 4 or 5 months from full disclosure. Hysterical bonding has ended, but that was quite a whirlwind of some fun SF adventure.

It is awkward for me at times. There has been a few times that I triggered enough that I just couldn't go through with it. There are times I have to fight with every cell in my body to not reject her. However, I know the pain of rejection all too well, and I stick to my goal of not giving in to small rejections.

There will only be one rejection - and I am committed to giving her every opportunity and an ample amount of time to overcome that.


She stood in the flame of my pain and anger, and reminds me every time I begin to crumble that she is there willing to burn with me if I go up in flames. When I break down, sometimes, it often seems like she is more hurt by all this than I am.


Owning up enough to be willing to expose to OMGF, owning up enough to expose to her mother. NC. Constant contact.


Whatever it is, it is encapsulated in 20+ hours per week of UA time. Sometimes, that UA time involves reflection; "I love it when you...", "I would love it if you..."


Cheers.

Ok, Pep. You and your color makes quoting hard.

Anyway, this right here.

FWW does this. All the time. Even though 99% of the time the only answer I can give is "I don't know."

This morning, I got breakfast in bed with a love note. Another time, I was having a particularly horrible day and working a double shift. I came home to a spotless bedroom, candlelight, incense, and a FWW dressed and made up to a "T." Just for me, right before I had to go to bed and so I could work the next morning.

The work she put into that compared to the size of the gesture was mismatched.

Remember; small things are actually HUGE.

A very important & valid point!
Small things that are consistent are HUGER (more powerful and more meaningful) than one huge act.

This is exactly where I am at. And exactly as I see it. I have made no permanent decisions. I can't see that far ahead. I have given myself mile markers along the way, and I check in when I reachthem.

this hysterical bonding that everyone is talking about...did it happen right away? how long after finding out about the affair were you ready to have sex or be intimate with your spouse again?

I am very new here, but thought I would share:

1. I did not fall out of love with him. Like someone else said, but instead realized exactly how much I did love him. But I was disgusted by him, too.

2. Felt like giving up often. But we have children and in the early days, I stayed because I felt they deserved a chance to have an intact family. Later I stayed because I thought he was worthy of my effort.

3. We had been in MC before Dday, but we both went to IC after. Actually, we had the same IC and I know that is not recommended but she is awesome and amazing and helped him kill the affair and pull his head out. Love her! And she helped me immensely as well. But he did not go until after Dday #2 (my requirement to stay together)

4. I was very receptive to his apologizes, but they fell flat for quite some time. Actions. Actions must match words. He still apologizes to me. Really, I don't think there could be too much apologizing.

5. We were an HB couple.

6. He shared his revelations from IC, told me when OW broke NC, and just stayed steadfast and true amidst my pain. He failed me once by being weak; but he has healed me by his strength in recovery.

7. Same as above. He changed. He showed me affection, he met my needs, he bore my pain, he stopped being passive aggressive, and he became my best friend again.

8. Be there. Be solid.

Please bear in mind that our discovery and recovery actions were pre-MB for us. We are using MB to get us past the last hurdles (which I think may be acceptance in the grieving process which I am struggling with). So some of what we did was not MB, but also, much of what we did WAS. It has been very interesting to see what we did by "instinct" or how our counselor worked with us meshes with MB concepts.

Right away, after the blackout period ended.

Then after a few months, I went dark again, and when that ended, it happened again.

I'd say it's normal now, or back to what it was before I knew about it, which was always pretty high. Just another confusing issue.

For us? It was about 12 or 14 hours after I found out. I know many people say it is instinct and I believe that. But it was also very calculated for me. I knew we were going to try to recover and I NEEDED TO KNOW I was the last person he touched. We felt a need for each other like we hadn't in years. Neither of us knew if it was the right thing to do or not, but we decided if it was a crutch..well, at least it was a fun one.

A to the men! LOL!

1. When you found that your spouse cheated, did you end up falling out of love with them? If so, when did the love return? Were there stretches of time where you felt there was no love towards the WS?

No, did not fall out of love, however it has been a long, slow painful grinding away to where I am now 'all out of love'. I did have stretches where I really questioned if I could love this person ever again.

2. Did you ever feel like giving up? Did you give up? What made you want to work it out/stay?

Yes, I questioned my resolve to continue to work towards saving the marriage often. I eventually did give up. I should clarify, my WW is STILL in an active affair and at no time has appologized, nor expressed any desire to recover.

3. Did you go to counseling/coaching?

We went to IC but never marriage counseling. I received coaching from SH here. WW talked to Jennifer for about 5 minutes once. Again, there was never a desire from her to stay married and there still isn't.

4. Were you receptive to your spouse's apologies, attempts to work out it out and trying to meet your EN?

Not Applicable. However I think I would have been very receptive to them if they were offered.

5. Did your sex life suffer? Was it awkward to have sex for a while?

Incredibly. No SF (for me anyway) since April 2009.

6. What did your WS do to help you understand that he/she realized the errors made, and would do anything to help you recover?

Absolutely nothing.

7. How did your WS demonstrate his/her remorse, and total commitment to helping you heal?

Not applicable.

8. What things were helpful in the recovery process? (Actions, words, affection, etc)

Not applicable.


I do want to echo what somebody else posted earlier. If you are the FW spouse, treat the fact that your BS is willing to try to work things out as a gift. A huge gift.

wow. ok.

i found out about what i thought was an EA on december 4th. my husband confessed it was actually physical, last thursday. we havent hugged, kissed...nothing. he has been sleeping on the couch. i can hear him crying. i can hear him getting sick. while my heart is broken, i can see/feel his breaking. i want so badly to hug or kiss or be intimate, but i just dont know if that is "letting him off the hook". or if he thinks once i do that all is ok, forgiven and shoved under the rug?

There was no rug shoving under going on. It was bonding and filling a need during a crazy time. Only you can know if it's what you want. I don't think a freight train could have stopped me.

Have you exposed? Do you know it's over?

yes its been exposed.

im about 99% certain its over. the remaining 1% there is so real reason or suspicion for, just typical feelings after being betrayed, i think. i can never be 100% certain of anything anymore. all trust is completely shattered.

lily..I am currently a BS but I was a WH about 14 years ago. My loving wife...who is now a WW took me back and while I wasn't trying to continue the affair I just went thru the motions to make her feel better and I thought I was really trying to do things better but I wasn't.

I never understood, I didn't go to get MC which she asked me to do. I didn't understand the way I should be loving her and what I was doing to her by my actions of spending time on the computer and making her feel like everything else was more important than she was! OMG what a huge mistake that was..

She tried to tell me but I just didn't understand and didn't want to understand I guess. Now that she is WW and our marriage is in a bad place and I am now the BS I totally UNDERSTAND...OMG..This was the most painful thing I have ever went thru and I wish/hope my wife will understand now that I get it and I wished I could go back and change the way I acted and treated her during the time between our affairs. Thanks to this site I have learned so much about myself and about marriage and affairs..

I guess the advice I am trying to give you is..make sure he understand and he is COMMITED to REAL change and he can't do it for a month and then go back to the way it was. The other thing I have learned is about being completly open and transparent. I never realized I should never have things to hide from my wife. But I did..not on purpose but none the less.. I did. I have since tried to give my wife EVERYTHING so she can see I am not hiding anything and I even told her..if I ever seem to be hiding something LOOK into it because I don't want to hide anything from you EVER.

I wish you luck..I know feeling are probably all over the place but I think with a proper MB plan it can be saved...and you can regain a GREAT marriage..
Good luck!

Lily2009,
Hi there again, you asked about the hugging, in the beginning when I first found out about my husband's affair, I was so distraught I needed someone to hold me, he was the only one around so I figured he put me in this place he was going to help me, it calmed me down, he didn't really hug back at first but I hugged him and told him I still loved him, that I remember the man he used to be........
Of course he was still in affair fog, he really didn't hug back at first but I think after a while he looked forward to the hugs, it was the only way we connected at first....
It was calming for both of us..........right or wrong it worked for us.........they aren't let off the hook by just a hug

1. When you found that your spouse cheated, did you end up falling out of love with them? I never fell out of love with him. I was angry with him, wanted to slap him repeatedly with a brick, wanted to kick him very hard right where it counts, but never fell out of love with him. If so, when did the love return? Were there stretches of time where you felt there was no love towards the WS? There were stretches of time when I felt like I had to work very hard to focus on "the prize", which was returning the marriage to the state I wanted it to be in. I had to be very careful not to confuse my pain and anguish with the idea that I no longer loved him. These are two very different things - and one has to be very aware that feelings of pain and anger do not erase feelings of love toward someone. You can love someone and still be angry at them; being angry at someone does not make them the enemy. You can despise an act that someone has perpetrated, but love the person and work through issues, find common purpose, find a way for the perpetrator to make amends and for the victim to forgive.

2. Did you ever feel like giving up? Only every morning when I woke up, and every night before I fell asleep, and many moments in between. Did you give up? I probably gave up a million times. The key is that I started over a million and ONE. What made you want to work it out/stay? I knew, deep down inside, that I loved him and he loved me. That somehow he and I together constituted a far greater goodness and right than he and I apart.

3. Did you go to counseling/coaching? My husband would not go. He just cannot talk to a counselor. We had tried this once a very long time ago, and you could almost see his skin bubble up.

4. Were you receptive to your spouse's apologies, attempts to work out it out and trying to meet your EN? I was receptive to honest attempts, and not receptive to incomplete information, hedging, or trickle-truth. So the door was open, but it slammed shut when needed and he could always knock when he was ready.

5. Did your sex life suffer? Was it awkward to have sex for a while? This one is hard for me to answer, because my husband was diagnosed with cancer shortly after d-day. We had a brief honeymoon period where sex was outstanding, then nothing for more than a year and ahalf due to his cancer treatment and surgery. It has suffered at times, due to my feelings, I would say, but we get through it.

6. What did your WS do to help you understand that he/she realized the errors made, and would do anything to help you recover? He wrote letters to me, talked with me, answered questions (well, after his trickle-truth issue!). He still talks about it, and we still have occasional question/answer times if I feel a need or the topic comes up, which at five years later doesn't seem to much anymore.

7. How did your WS demonstrate his/her remorse, and total commitment to helping you heal?
He was obviously emotionally devastated. He was open after his trickle-truth thing was over. His remorse was very obvious, however, as he cried a lot, he was physically and verbally comforting to me. He offered to leave, to expose the affair on his own, to do whatever it took to repair the marriage. He has made a 180 degree change in how he works with me around the house, how we spend time together, how he treats me around his family, how he defends me to his parents - and the result is that others see us much differently. His mom now thinks much differently of me, because HE STOOD UP TO HER for the first time in our married life together, he stood up for me. Also, he is reading MB stuff.

8. What things were helpful in the recovery process? (Actions, words, affection, etc) He did the homework in Dr. Phil's Relationship Recovery book, he read SAA, and also After the Affair. He has read and actually agrees with the radical honesty policy here, and has done the ENQ from MB more than a few times with me so we can stay on top of things. He has openly expressed his remorse, and talked to me about his feelings - what he was thinking, what he was feeling at that time and now. He openly talks about what he is thinking emotionally, and this helps us work out things together.

It is still hard for him to open up, though. We had a rough time over the last few days, because of his trickle truth issue. But this time it wasn't as bad as before, because he was able to just say it and it wasn't a drag out thing. We have improved so much - and our level of being friends has also improved along the way. We are working together remodeling, and although there have been a few kinks, it has helped us to do this together!

Thanks again to everyone that has responded. You have given me some hope yet again. It is morning here and I feel like some days I need something to make me feel like it will be okay (even though there is a chance that it will not be). I will keep doing the small things and hope that in time it will reach out to him enough that he wants this relationship and me again.

The fact that you

a) think of them
b) do them
c) are consistent

quickly transforms the adjective "small", into "important", and "valuable".

Good luck. We'll be here when you have other questions.

Thank you so far for the responses. I don't know what it is like to feel like a BS and wanted to get some insight. I realize I will never understand how my husband feels as I am not in his shoes and I am sorry that he is feeling the way he feels and can't say sorry enough.

The analogy of a BS as a donor makes sense to me and gives me a bit more understanding and realizing that I should be thankful he is still interacting with me at all even if he won't open up and try. Even if he asks for a divorce I will wait patiently and hope that he will be willing to make a large donation to me after what I have done.

I hope that the small things do reach out to him at some point NeverGuessed. Still he thinks we are headed to divorce and it will not work out. One day at a time.... One small action...Change the things that I can change...

I never fell out of love but of course I was very angry.


I think everyone pretty much feels like giving up but I never considered that was an option. I believe marriage is a lifelong commitment made before God - that was my motivation as well as protecting my kids etc.


We did have some counselling with our Pastor but it was frankly useless and I don't believe most clergy have a clue about recovery after adultery.

I did find MB around 6 weeks after d-day and we read all we could get our hands on and also purchased the MB home study course.


I didn't get anything approaching a heartfelt apology for a fair time. My wife was determinesd to 'fake it till she made it' though. Feelings follow actions.


She didn't want any physical contact for weeks after she moved back home. Sex was a bit weird for a while.


Transparency and a complete commitment to no contact. Reading the MB materials, working on the MB home study program, reporting attempts by OM to breach NC etc.


Seeing her work with other WW's and reading what she said to them really helped me to see that she truely got it.


It's a process that takes time - no shortcuts available I'm afraid and lots of ups and downs.

1. When you found that your spouse cheated, did you end up falling out of love with them? Don't think so although was extremely angry for months If so, when did the love return? Took two years. Were there stretches of time where you felt there was no love towards the WS? Yes, somedays asked - why am I still here, leave him, others days - I love him, can't leaveI felt like rubberband stretching both ways in first year and a half.
2. Did you ever feel like giving up? Worst time was six months after Dday - actually considered RA. Did you give up? What made you want to work it out/stay? Husbands 180 turn on how he behaved
3. Did you go to counseling/coaching? Went to MC for four months - found MB and followed that ever since
4. Were you receptive to your spouse's apologies, attempts to work out it out and trying to meet your EN? Not at first - went to MC only because I wanted to prove to kids I tried but expected it wouldn't work, counseling and husbands remorse got me to stay
5. Did your sex life suffer? Was it awkward to have sex for a while? I didn't want Sf with him for long time (months) but now we enjoy it weekly
6. What did your WS do to help you understand that he/she realized the errors made, and would do anything to help you recover? We follwed MB principles, did questionnaires, putin place EP, stopped all contact with OW, worked at making each other happy instead of unhappy everyday
7. How did your WS demonstrate his/her remorse, and total commitment to helping you heal? He listened, changed, and works on making my happy. He's different man
8. What things were helpful in the recovery process? (Actions, words, affection, etc)Actions. We knew each other's top emotional needs and worked to meet them, we spent time together, improved communciation, I had to change some too.

And, my H would ask me daily: "What can I do for you today?" - PB

Even though 99% of the time the only answer I can give is "I don't know." - HHH

I thought about this couplet for a few days, and finally decided that I wanted to (maybe) take this to another level. PB & HHH, I'm not implying that you've not done what I'm about to describe but I just thought it might be helpful to state it explicitly.

CREATIVITY and IMAGINATION can address this "What do we do now?" issue.

WS's - By all means continue to ask the question, but consider just doing little things WITHOUT asking. Bring your BS an unrequested glass of lemonade on a warm day, or a steaming cup of coffee on a cold one. Take a bottle of window cleaner to your BS's rear car window and let them find it on their own. Bring your BS flowers for no reason (this works for both genders, btw). Make the popcorn, and acquire and watch a video that appeals to their tastes, ESPECIALLY if those tastes are ones that you dont't prefer.

BS's - These questions are opportunity to recommit fully to actively participate in this recovery process. The next time the question is asked, say SOMETHING that will move the process forward. "Tell me why I'm the one you love." "How about rubbing my neck for a minute?" "Get the pictures from last vacation and let's see who looks the worst." (Refrain from the retrograde: "Tell me again what you saw in AP." Not helpful.)

Both - Take the moment to jot an affectionate note to the other and hide it where only the spouse can find it. (Since I arise first and feed the pets, FWW once put such a note in the canary seed!)

If today is the 273rd day of recovery, you and your spouse will never again have the opportunity to improve your marriage on the 273rd day of your new relationship. Don't let this day get away.

Thanks for the recent posts. I have been doing the small things as much as I can. Most days I get up before my husband so I make him and myself breakfast and tea. I bring home little treats that I see at the store that he likes (small things like a few pieces of chocolate). I also teach and give children candy so I bring that for him. I make dinner. When he is the shower and forgets his towel, I bring it to him before he is done. So hopefully that means something, just this week he was able to rest his arms on the part of the couch right behind me (a big thing cause he had been sitting there for a couple of weeks with his arms crossed...). He's been sharing more about his days and talks more to me about his daily life when I am not there.
He has brought home some treats as well this week twice, some of our favorite chips to share and other treats.
He still thinks we are headed for a break up but I am still hopeful as he is more receptive and positive towards me this week.

Good job LL123,
You sound like things are a bit better, be encouraged, it takes time to let your guard down and feel comfortable again. I would also try to bring a bit of humor into your time spent, it's all the little things at first.....no matter how small, don't expect anything in return for now either.............
Stay strong.

How long did you harbor resentment and anger towards your WS?

When did you forgive your WS?

LL: My answers:

1. When you found that your spouse cheated, did you end up falling out of love with them?
Yes but not initially.
If so, when did the love return?
It has not returned and its eerie.
Were there stretches of time where you felt there was no love towards the WS? Yes, I feel that way right now.
2. Did you ever feel like giving up?
Yes, for the past three months.
Did you give up?
No. But I have wanted to up until this past week.
What made you want to work it out/stay?
I have stayed because I am stupid. WS is not repentent.
3. Did you go to counseling/coaching?
Tried with MB but WS gave up. I continue with private counseling.
4. Were you receptive to your spouse's apologies, attempts to work out it out and trying to meet your EN?
Other than a little more time together (perhaps an extra 2 hours a week that is all I have gotten. I have stupidly been grateful.
5. Did your sex life suffer?
100% failure.
Was it awkward to have sex for a while?
100% uninterested - initially I needed SF.
6. What did your WS do to help you understand that he/she realized the errors made, and would do anything to help you recover?
Nothing directly.
7. How did your WS demonstrate his/her remorse, and total commitment to helping you heal?
Nothing directly.
8. What things were helpful in the recovery process? (Actions, words, affection, etc)
Anti-depressants.

So obviously we are not in recovery although active affair by WS is not going on.

ME BS: 56
WS:49
married: 12 years
D-Day 1 April 26, 2009
D-Day 2 October 13, 2009
hers: 2 children ages 18 & 22
mine: 3 children ages 22, 28 & 30
ours: 11 years old
A # 1 admitted to Jan 31, 2010
A # 2 not admitted to
Surviving one day at a time

Still in the ditches on this one. Some days, not at all. Some days, overwhelmingly. Remember; the more there is to resent, the longer it will take to get over it.


I haven't yet. I had a scary thought the other day; I could probably do it sooner if I just threw my hands up and walked away - because then, I wouldn't have to care any more, I wouldn't have to face my attacker any more.

NOT dwelling on forgiveness is how I get by. I remind myself that only time and action will earn forgiveness. I have commited myself to giving her the opportunity by giving her the time to act, if that makes sense.

What this does NOT mean, is it does not mean I wield her error like a weapon against her when I'm upset or want to get my way. It means that I am hunkered down, waiting for the clouds to clear, and making the best I can out of my little foxhole while I do.

Disclaimer: My situation as a BH with a WW was a bit atypical for these boards because of the following factors:
A. I did not find MB until very late in the game and was mistakenly living in denial about the affair due to my own �not wanting to believe it� and some very poor advice dispensed on another counselor�s website (divorcebusting.com) which actively discourages BSs from investigating/disrupting potential infidelity. I STRONGLY advise newbies to follow MB TO THE LETTER though I will never know whether it would have made a difference in my particular situation.
B. Because of the above, I did not definitively know of the affair (though I suspected the possibility and was warned by family/friends) until MUCH LATER. Thus, my exposure was much delayed and therefore utterly ineffective. My WW had plenty of time to get her �ducks in a row�, scapegoat the heck out of me, and con people over to her side/version-of-events in advance.
C. My �Plan A Carrot� (such as it was) was also very poor due to my own self-blame, confusion, and emotional devastation. A good Plan A first immensely aids a BS�s Plan B�s effectiveness & I didn�t have that either.

To answer your original questions from the perspective of a BS:

1. Yes, I did�with all sincerity and earnestness. I tried from the point of our �crisis� beginning until WW filed (~6 mo). In fact, I tried even afterward too. I learned that trying to �convince� or �entice� a WW (with moral or logical arguments especially) is an UTTER WASTE OF TIME. You may as well go talk to a tree. That is why snooping & exposure to hasten the affair�s end is so important.

2. LOL, your kidding right? My WW was utterly obsessed with her affair. She never maintained NC, she never entered NC, she never even admitted that there was an affair. Just vilified me and scapegoated our marriage to cover her a$$.

3. My WW did both. 95% of the time a wife separates from her home/husband and starts talking divorce, it is because there is some other man she is running to.

4. My WW never admitted to anything. Lied through her teeth to me over and over (never believe anything your spouse says in these situations�hire a PI to find the truth). Other than a few brief moments of mental clarity�I call them now �dipping a toe in the water��my WW made reconciliation utterly impossible by continuing to lie & scapegoat, never taking any responsibility for her own actions, refusing to leave/end the affair, and never showing any honesty, remorse, or repentance whatsoever. Recovery is impossible with a WS who doesn�t even show you/family/friends the simple respect of telling the truth and apologizing.

5. Due to my circumstances above, I discovered the full story in trickle-truth, water-torture fashion over months and months. I never had a traditional �D-day� because of this but instead a series of them that were much delayed (after our separation and even post-divorce). Thus, I didn�t get myself fully into a self-protective Plan B until much later and therefore went through �withdrawal� well after the divorce when I could finally appreciate the full gravity of who my xWW had become and what she had done to all those who had loved her.

6. Yes. Total waste of time to go to MC with a cheating spouse!. Don�t do it!!! (see below)

7. I did/have. I doubt WW/xWW ever did. She didn�t want to hear anything that contradicted her affair-fantasy or might hold a mirror to her face. Can you say �alien abduction�?

8. Yes.

A) To start, if you are the BS, DO NOT go to marriage counseling (MC). I know that is counter-intuitive advice (much of MB seems counter-intuitive at first) but do not fall for the commonly-head notion that the treatment for all marital problems is automatically �going to counseling� (individual counseling is fine and good but don�t do couples counseling). First of all, your WS is likely to receive your counseling offer as �neediness�, �desperation�, or �control�. He/she is not likely to accept anyway. If your WS does happen to agree to counseling, it will be completely useless as long as he/she is still in the affair or unrepentant. Traditional MC only �works� when both parties are basically in agreement about working together and just need someone to facilitate communication. That is NOT the case when an affair is present. Your WS will only sabotage the counseling (easy to do), use it as a forum to blame you for everything and CYA/lie about their affair, and point to it later as evidence of why they�re justified with phrases such as �we tried counseling and it didn�t work; I had no choice�. Bottom line, MC with a cheating spouse is useless at best and often counter-productive. DON�T DO IT.

B) If you are the BS, please read and follow MB plans precisely. It will feel awkward at first to not �trust� your spouse. You shouldn�t. He/she is selling you out, stabbing you in the back, and doesn�t have the best interests of your marriage at heart anymore. He/she is lost and not the person you have known for so many years. You have to follow the plans on your own because your WS has indulged a mortal enemy into your lives�the OP. The affair/OP is the cancerous enemy of your marriage and everything short of outright illegality should be used by you to get rid of them. That definitely means, without exception, that you must snoop, expose, and cut off all financial support for the affair. Plan A �carrot� your butt off to your WS and be prepared to go to a very dark Plan B and stay there until the affair ends. You are likely in a marathon not a sprint, so don�t expect instant results. The man/woman you love is a sick and depraved individual right now and the fight will take a long time to resolve.

C) If you happen to be a WS reading this, please realize the terrible trauma you are inflicting on those who have loved you for years and years. Please drop all your pretenses of justification and rationalization. Please understand that your affair, no matter how �meant to be� it feels right now is a mirage that ends in family & friendship destruction�and no �greener grass� years down the road. Your BS undoubtedly made mistakes too, but this is not the way to handle them. Please confess your affair, end it completely and permanently with NC, suck it up while you grieve the OP (who is undoubtedly a loser anyway as you will come to see down the road), and be truly repentant. You can and will build a much better life and relationship with you�re your current spouse that you can ever possibly have with a man/woman who is willing to cheat on a marriage (or 2). Don�t fall for the Sirens� Song�you�ll be sorry if you do.

Another question.

How long did it take for you to forgive? What steps did you take and what steps did your WS take to earn it?

Any other experiences with IC helping to kill an affair??

Our counsellor asked why in gods name would I expose????!!! If I love her why do that to her.

Because it saved her and saved our marriage. Is saving our marriage..

Nope. My xwh and I went to counseling and two things happened.
(it was IC)

He lied to her so convincingly the counselor thought I WAS THE ONE with the issues when my xh was the ws, caused everything, and lied his butt off. Somehow, that counselor missed that. Plus their focus is on $ and getting more sessions, and in not really healing things. Look at it like this. If you have a couple in counseling, wht makes them grow their business? Have them divorce and have two more sessions separately. They are NOT in the marriage saving business. Not at all.

I seriously do not think counseling helps, unless it is MB coaching. Unless it is personal recovery, and then counseling is fine, as I used another one for my personal recovery after the divorce