CV, I am a Bible believing Christian and it is NOT "evil" to apply a 2x4 where needed. We all know Jesus Christ did the same. What is evil is to coddle folks or sit by idly while someone is inviting harm into their lives. For example, the bulk of my 2x4's tend to be aimed at betrayed HUSBANDS who sorely need a wake up call. "Evil?" Of course not. There is nothing evil about knocking someone off the railroad tracks when the train is coming right at them.

The bottom line is that you can only control how *YOU* post. You are not in a position to tell others how to post here and the very premise is profoundly disrespectful and offensive. You don't have a superior style to others. You have been here a few short weeks yet are lecturing folks who are a) in a fully recovered marriage and b) who have been on this forum for YEARS helping untold members save their marriages. That is some amazing arrogance.

Trying to correct other board members for their posting style is one of the most disruptive behaviors I have ever seen on this board in 10 years here because it is so disrespectful. As you can see for yourself, it doesn't work.

The key phrase here is "the question FOR ME" because you can only control your own approach and not that of others. I have noticed that we seem to employ the approach that would work best for OURSELVES, and therein lies the beauty and value of this forum. IT takes all kinds. Your approach would never work with a person like me, but my approach would. And vice versa.

That is why it makes no sense whatsoever to try and persuade others to post like you. You don't have the only approach that works. I have watched Pepperband for 10+ years and she has reached many, many people over those years. She doesn't need to change her style to suit anyone. I have learned over the years that there is great value to a diversity of styles, even if I don't particularly agree with some. [with the exception of coddlers, of course, which are actually destructive, IMO]


Would you agree with Dr Harley here?

CV,

I am also a Christian -- So is Pepperband, btw. I am a FWW -- A very blunt Pepperband post is one that still rings in my head today - I CREDIT that post as being one of THE most helpful that I ever received here. If not for Pep, I'm not sure how much deeper into the abyss of sin I might have chosen to go.

So you do NOT know what posting style will help one poster or another. Stick with your style and give your brand of help -- that might get through to someone -- but not everyone.

Here's what I'd like to convey to you -- What if Pep changed her style due to your comments [laughable, I know she won't], but what if she did and then another person like ME came along who NEEDED her brand of help? I hope you will think about that.

Mrs. W

P.S. I was an arrogant wayward who did NOT need to be "built up" -- I needed to hear that I was not the "be-all-end-all-too-cool-for-school-coolio" that I thought I was. I needed to see how others viewed what I had done. I needed to know that what I had done others thought was "bad, very bad".

I've been trying to run Mrs W off the boards since 2005.
Dayum!
She just refuses to get her bad self gone.


PS:
It's to your credit that you woke up. Not mine.
I was just an instrument.

Mel,

Firefly actually posted here last night asking we drop the discussion from yesterday's posts. As much as I would like to keep discussing the posts from yesterday, I don't feel that ignoring a moderator would be in any of our best interests. And really, what more needs to be said about it?

We can discuss the principle, but i am not willing to dredge the stuff from yesterday up. If you want to do that... explore helpful ways to interact, I'm for it. But if everyone thinks they are good, that's fine too.

CV

I think its helpful to explore helpful ways to improve our OWN approach, but my point is that we can't change the approach of others.

I've been following this - can I jump in? :::not waiting for an answer:::

Just like we all have different personalities, we all have different posting styles. Some posters are gentle and thoughtful. Others are no-nonsense and forthright. Some are...um...a little vague. Others hit solidly one day and miss wildly the next.

I think there is a place for these different styles and I think they're all important. What doesn't work for one will hopefully work for another. I think it is the collection of a variety of voices that works well on this site. I have been to other sites where the emphasis has been on not hurting anyone's feelings, or not lowering anyone's self-esteem. Those sites tend to be anemic. They run in circles and seem to frustrate some posters who are almost begging for a stern wake-up with no sugar coating. They want someone to help them straighten up, because they've already shown that they can't do it on their own.

One thing I've noticed here is that posters don't hesitate to jump in when it seems like another voice is needed. Working together seems to work very well here. It is the collective commitment to helping posters that is served in the end.

One thing needs to remain constant: All roads lead to MarriageBuilders. That's the program that works. It's the one other sites try to emulate. Straying from this program doesn't work here. Suggesting other programs dilutes the strength and focus of MB. That won't fly and the poster will be called on it. As they should.

And isn't it great - the tools are here! Dr. Harley is here! We've got the program that works.

What a tool!

Mrs. W

CV~

I remember an instance in our first days on MB [mine and Mr. W's] when Mr. W made a post to a long time member asking that the poster change a few of his posts -- Mr. W got schooled in a hurry that that was NOT acceptable, and he shut his trap. We've now been here for nearly 6 years, and we've definitely seen the value of having all different styles on the board.

Now, anytime someone tries to correct the style of others, we look back and laugh at Mr. W's early gaff. If you are still here years from now, I bet you will do the same about your recent posts. Live and learn.

Mrs. W

P.S. So as not to get in trouble with "Firefly", I'll offer up this tribute:

Thank you, moderators, for building a culture here where we do not get distracted trying to straighten each other out, where each of us can take what we want from any individual poster's message and ignore the rest. It sure helps minimize the defensiveness which is so damaging to building good marriages, and to building maturity in general.

I've been on other boards where the culture is to protect people from ever hearing anything personally uncomfortable, because they might be too "sensitive." That doesn't seem to work well when the essence of a problem is that you really need to take an uncomfortable look at your own mistakes. At some point here somebody correctly pointed out that I was trying to avoid looking at my own mistakes, and I credit that with really helping me to mature and grow up.

I suppose my only question on the current topic is:


"Why can't everyone just agree with me, and do things the way I do it?????"





SB

Dangit, SB, I was thinking the same thing, myself!

OK, a few people have asked for updates, so here goes....

Grace had eye surgery last Monday. It was a partial corneal transplant. Basically what they did was cut out 1/3 of her bottom 2 layers of the cornea and replace it with a cadaver's. The expected waiting healing time with no problems is around 2 and a half months.

Basically they stick the pie shaped replacement in, fasten it with a few stitches and place an air bubble under it to hold it in the correct position for 12 hours so it can attach. She's supposed to be completely prone during this time.

Anyway, the surgery itself went ok on Monday with one exception. She complained immediately of pain in the eye after she came out of the anesthesia. She said the pain was about an 8 or 9 on a 10 scale. They gave her a pain killer and sent us back to the hotel to wait for the follow up appointment.

After about an hour and a half, the pain began growing by leaps and bounds. In fact, she started having convulsions from the pain and vomiting. I called the on-call emergency doctor and he said to not wait for an ambulance and take her back into the hospital. He wanted me to call his cell when I was pulling into the parking lot and he would meet us there. By the time we got to the hospital she was screaming non-stop from the pain at the top of her lungs. I couldn't hear the doctor on the phone and had to park and leave her in the car so I could call him back.

If you've ever been to John Hopkins Medical center, it's big. really big. I had to direct the doctor to us by phone, get her into a wheel chair (couldn't take her to the ER because they weren't equipped to do the work), and then we went to the DR's office. Well the building was closed for the night and all the elevators were shut off for the night. I carried her up 3 flights of stairs to the office with the DR in tow. Between the hotel and the Dr's office she filled a grocery bag from all the nausea.

Long story short, I held her down while the DR took her eye pressure readings. below 20 is normal and good. She was at 91. Anything over 90 and as he explained , she is in danger of losing the eye. Apparently the air bubble shifted and blocked the fluid and air flow in the eye causing pressure buildup.

The Dr had to pull the flap of the cornea to release the pressure and immediately after the second try she felt relieved.

The eye is a funny thing I am finding out. One eye is hurt and the other automatically shuts to protect itself. I have spent the last week with a blind woman.

2 days ago her good eye opened back up, but she still cannot see out of the bad eye. looking through the good eye causes stress so it's limited though she was able to watch a movie yesterday.

We have an appointment tomorrow to see if they need to reset the cornea transplant. if it is attaching they will leave it alone.

Well that was our adventure. I will post some more thoughts in a bit. Being a BS caring for a FWW has been interesting for both of us. I will share some thoughts in a bit.

CV

Wow, CV, that's distressing to hear! Good to hear that the Dr. was able to resolve the pain!

Prayers going up for you and Grace for fast healing!

CV,

I am very sorry to hear all of this. I hope that Grace will recover from the mess and that her sight can be fully restored. What a horrible experience.

God Bless,

JL

JL, MB,

Thanks! Prayers are much appreciated. What is interesting is how we have been forced to do certain things.

I was highly triggered on the day of the surgery. We had to drive by nearly all the "trigger spots" to get there. Providence dictated that I not have time to dwell on any of them. I deal with triggers better now, but I still have bad days.

The other interesting thing is that we have been working on trust and honesty. Two of the main things that got her into trouble. She didn't trust anyone but herself, and has been struggling with trusting me more fully in the last three years and we have been working on being honest about feelings since we got that great advice from SB a few months back.

Her not being able to see, having me dress her, walk her everywhere, be there when she needed anything and administer her meds has caused something of a revelation for her.

It has also caused me to look at myself, have to set *me* aside and focus solely on her. I had to trust her to let me help. I have learned a new aspect of what it means to lay your life down for your wife. Lots of time for self examination for both of us and not much time to discuss things together (if she cries it hurts her eyes). So... even after three years we are learning new things and being forced to move a little further each time.

Progress is made in the little things, but it's the big things that help you see them.

CV

quick update.. we had a doctor's appt today and the cornea didn't attach at all. Ugh. She has another surgery scheduled for monday to reposition it. Hopefully this one will work.

celticvoyager: wanted to thank you for being a kind ear to bend when I originally posted here. I appreciate your non-judgmental approach.

Terribly sorry to hear about the difficulty with your wife's eye surgery. I know you're both dreading the "repeat" operation.

Not a particularly religious person, but have no qualms whatsoever about reaching out to whatever higher power there may be on behalf of others. I'm praying for you and asking for total healing and peace.

Thank you, CV . . .

CV, I'm sorry to hear BG has been having such a difficult time of it. Please keep us posted! Thinking of you guys.

Prayers are appreciated! how are you doing? Are you guys recovering?

CV