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(I considered tacking this onto my �story� thread, because it really is more auto-analytical than incisively brilliant, as I was a more studied practitioner of the described process than I�d like to remember. I engaged in this form of retribution off-and-on for probably six months, completely ending just about this pre-Holiday time.)
It seems every time a newly-betrayed spouse (or, usually more accurately, a newly-aware betrayed spouse) starts a thread on the SAA board, within the first three posts we will read: �I�ve forgiven him, but I still find myself�.�, or �Even though I�ve forgiven her, there are times when I��.� and the following words describe fears, hurts, angers, doubts, resentments, estrangements, isolations, etc, that are preventing the BS from approaching the WS in the ways that will be necessary to effect recovery and revitalizing a new, stronger marital relationship. In the most self-contradictory of statements, occasionally we get: �I have forgiven my WS, but am not yet certain I will stay in the marriage.�
This situation is so pervasive that it might be of value to explore what the dynamics are that create the apparent disparity.
First, what is it to �forgive�? In the strictest sense it means to decline to take action in response to a negative action of another. In the classic example, if a person who owed you money could/would not repay the debt, you might decline to pursue legal remedies, as not being worth the effort. In effect you would �forgive� the debt. It does not imply that you would be reconciled to the damage done you by the debtor, and are pleased with the situation. It only refers to your non-action to avenge yourself on that person.
So the BS has been injured by the cheating actions of the WS. In today�s culture what acceptable actions are open to the BS?
Sadly (IMHO) physical beating of the WS is pass�, as is exacting mortal retribution against the AP. (Hold your vitriol; I�m probably just kidding.) Even such civilized exercises as locking the WS out of the house are unadvisable, as likely to result in criminal problems for the BS.
Apparently the only remaining options are to take action to dissolve (divorce) or interrupt (separation) the marriage. In many cases this not only seems to be, but is, an extreme decision, and if children are involved, and support for them (among other things like house/rent payments) requires the contributions of the spouses, splitting up and dispersing the financial contributions of the partners is not feasible. This is made more certain if the affair at issue was the first (known) instance of infidelity on the part of the WS.
So corporal revenge is outlawed, and legal action often appears likely to worsen the situation for the family unit. Therefore the BS has no recourse, right?
No, the BS has a path of revenge that most (all?) are not aware of, yet apparently all instinctively know to make use of, if necessary: the continuation of the mental anguish upon themselves primarily, but in full view of, and shared pain for, the WS.
This is their �freebie�. No one observing the ongoing mental/emotional agonies of the BS would heartlessly diagnose the situation as that of the BS �sticking it� to the WS. Certainly the WS has NO option open to say, �Are you still sad/angry/nervous over what I did a year ago?�
This manifestation does have some benefits however. Firstly, the �burr� beneath the BS�s saddle providentially caused them to seek out this site. Here is where can be found the actions that can truly (as opposed to �conveniently�) lead to actual forgiveness. The MB practices, if instilled into the actions of both spouses, will generate the repairs to the rupture(s). There is, after all, the concept of JC, although in practice this is devilishly hard to implement.
Some BSs though, cannot easily break free of the �comfort� of ongoing angst. The vets here are more and more finding it appropriate (and Jim_Flint started a whole thread addressing the subject) to use the approach to the evidently still-bleeding BSs of pointedly stating, �Okay, your WS did all that and more during the affair. Neither of you can change what happened a year ago. Now, how is your WS behaving today? If your WS is transparent in all things, is working to satisfy your ENs, has participated in the recommended UA time and been both open and radically honest with you, that is all you can expect right now. Do not look for trouble � any that might exist will find you soon enough.� Effectively they are asking the BS to consider formalizing (if only mentally) the act of forgiveness, and to move on to greater marital accomplishments.
I�m not sure what is immediately to be done with this hypothesis, except to consider responding to the next tyro who starts off, �I have forgiven my WS, but��� by answering �No, you have not forgiven the WS. Work faithfully with us here and we�ll show you how you can, however.�
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I thought I'd bump this up because it's such an excellent post. Thanks for sharing, NG.
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To sum it up, are you suggesting that no matter the underlining infraction whether it was an internet email EA, one night stand or a LTA, no matter how grievous the affront to BS, no matter ones existence is hollow compared to pre dday life and fraught with depression with acute anxiety, we the BH should buck up because what is done is done?
Your dissertation could have used my life as your case study. I've said all those things, felt all the emotions, throw pity parties all the time, needle her what I felt are harmless little nothing comments, but theyre not, and generally use a crabby mood to put her on edge.
Exchanging all that for UA with lovin, snugglin, chatting, walking, and filling up 15+ per week of it has proven a challenge I'm not winning.
I wish it was as simple as you suggest at the end there.
Life keeps on slipping, slipping, slipping into the fuuuu-ture.
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Mike,
The severity of the offense is largely defined by the betrayed, not the type of betrayal. Each finds their own offense in the actions of their WS.
It is often a BS bargaining their agony that will make a statement about "it was 'only' an EA."
Let me put it to you this way, the trickle truth I received was first "only an EA," and she shrunk from the word affair. Now, being that I knew the attraction existed to become physical - while I was at home being an "old sock."
Next trickle "we only kissed." With that, I knee there was a desire for sex, as a kiss between attracted parties is the precursor.
Then the admission "we slept together x times."
And of course more supposition follows.
No infidelity is less serious than another.
For instance, you can read the depths of pain, betrayal, and madness that our OP here sunk to himself, and ask if you would ever again utter "it was just an EA."
"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr
"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer
"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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My wife had an excellent post some years ago about forgiveness that I'm just going to copy; Here goes; I thank you for this topic, as I understand why you posted it. I started a thread back in August during our false recovery on this very topic.
Forgiveness is an act or attitude, IMHO, that I CHOOSE. I chose to forgive my husband, I think, immediately. Or, at least, after the initial shock wore off. Why did I forgive? Because I knew I could never restore my marriage without forgiveness. I could never have what I was working so hard to fight for, if I did not forgive. Without my forgiveness, our marriage was doomed...no matter what my FWS was willing to do for me.
So, what is forgiveness and how do I know I have done it? I believe forgiveness means removing the PUNISHMENT for the offense (not to be confused with consequences). What is the punishment for infidelity? Well, my religion must come in here. The punishment for sin is death? Should my FWS receive death? Should he receive the same betrayal and abandonment I suffered? Should he be so beaten down that he no longer feels worthy of love and forgiveness?
All those things would be punishment. How do I know I have forgiven my FWS? Because I do not want him to receive the appropriate punishment for his betrayal and abandonment. Because I do not feel pleasure or justification when he is agonizing over the damage he caused to me and our children. In fact, I hurt FOR him when he is overwhelmed with his grief, guilt and shame. That is how I know I have forgiven him.
But the truth is I forgave him before he wanted it. I did not ever desire him to receive the appropriate punishment for his betrayal.
I DID want him to suffer the natural consequences, however. But not to hurt him; but because I knew that those consequences would help to restore him to God and to his family, where he belonged and needed to be.
I find it incredibly difficult to have this conversation without it centering around my spiritual faith, although I AM trying.
You see, I KNOW that I could NOT forgive this offense without God's supernatural happening inside of me. This is all way too big for me.
I NEED God to:
help me forgive
heal my wounds
restore my marriage
unite us again in body and spirit
This IS ALL supernatural. How can I remove God from this discussion????
I remember last summer being worried that I would forgive "too quickly" because I am a forgiving person. I sought God's guidance in the question of WHEN to forgive. Here is a cut and paste of my post back in August. I agree with my statement even more today. We watched THE PASSION on Easter, and it reminded me of this.
I didn�t want to forgive my husband for his infidelity before it was the �right time�. Fearing that I might too quickly forgive my husband before he is �deserving�, I prayed that God would show me when the right time would be. God immediately spoke audibly to me the verse, "Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do." The he said it to me again a little differently: "Forgive him, SMB, for he knows not what he has done."
I felt overwhelmed as I considered Jesus� great suffering. It must have been an emotional suffering as well as a physical one. How did Jesus forgive and when? It appears to me that, Jesus, being consumed with love for those who persecuted Him, offered complete forgiveness with the hope that those same people would be restored to His Father in Heaven. He forgave immediately, in the midst of His agony, when His suffering was the greatest. He didn't wait "x" amount of months; he didn't wait to see remorse/repentance, he didn't wait for any action or words from the offender. He offered forgiveness immediately WHILE he suffered. He asked his Father to forgive them as he sacrificed himself to save them.
Today, I see this as true. FWS DIDN'T know what he had done. He could not yet comprehend what destruction he was causing...to those he loved most. And those that crusified Jesus, could not yet comprehend what their actions meant.
THAT did NOT stop Jesus from forgiving them while he was at his GREATEST suffering.
So this is the IDEAL. But we all know that forgiveness can be challenging. We may have to CHOOSE to forgive every single day. We may have days where we do not FEEL like forgiving. I think early on, some BS's have to make a daily choice to have an attitude of forgiveness, but must be patient with themselves when the triggers bring on the immense hurt or anger. Over time, forgiveness will get easier and eventually be a non-issue...as long as we are seeking to be forgiving.
But we complicate forgiveness, thinking it is more than it is. In my book, it is removing the appropriate punishment...or the desire for the appropriate punishment to be divvied out.
It is NOT:
removal of natural consequences
forgetting the offense
pretending everything is restored
refusing to process the emotions that resulted from the infidelity (hurt, anger, sorrow, grief)
trusting without reason
I know that Dr. H talks about just compensation. I think this is a great concept, which I understand better now that I have witnessed it from my FWS. He has offered a great deal of just compensation, ranging from steps to protect our marriage to a post nup agreement that gives me the cash value of his business.
But my forgiveness is NOT dependent on his just compensation. There is nothing he can do to DESERVE my forgiveness. It is there only because I CHOOSE it to be.
BUT his just compensation DOES help restore my trust in him. It does make me feel safe in our marriage again. It does rebuild the relationship that was devastated. It does demonstrate to me his commitment to be my husband forever.
My personal belief is that forgiveness is GIVEN, not earned. It is an choice the BS makes for no reason other than it is right. Without it, marriages cannot be restored. With it, all things are possible. No matter what our FWS do, without our forgiveness, our marriages are doomed.
I know I have forgiven because I do not want my FWS to receive his "just reward" for this betrayal and abandonment. To me, that's is the only thing forgiveness is about.
But forgiveness opens to door to a lot of other wonderful things...restored relationships, peace and joy.
Last edited by HerPapaBear; 12/29/11 12:25 PM.
Recovery began 10/07;
Meeting my wife's EN's is my "thank you" that refuses to be silenced.
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..are you suggesting that no matter the underlining infraction...we the BH should buck up because what is done is done?
Actually, Mike, I approached this from the opposite direction, in a way. What I was trying to suggest is that FBSs, once they have reached a point of stability following the discovery, etc, should for their own benefit, put aside the idea of...retribution? indemnification?...from the FWS, and "write off" the debt. And until they can honestly state that their mental/emotional state is such that dwelling on the actions of their FWS cannot recur, they should refrain from stating they have forgiven their spouse, and instead work to accomplish that fact.
I can look back now, months later, and truthfully say that not one of the several covert or overt periods of examination, resentment, review, reconsideration I underwent (once I had all the facts) did me any good. (Note below)
Let me put it to you, my friend - Did any of your flash-meltdowns since, say, August, do YOU any good? The answer may be "They made me FEEL better," but I'll surmise that you felt better after the explosion/confrontation only in terms of how crappy you felt during the incident.
(Note: There might be an exception to the "no benefit to NG" statement above in that having tormented both myself and my bride as persistenetly as I did, I may have begun the germination of any "empathy" for BHs that I can bring to this site.)
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Let me put it to you, my friend - Did any of your flash-meltdowns since, say, August, do YOU any good? The answer may be "They made me FEEL better," but I'll surmise that you felt better after the explosion/confrontation only in terms of how crappy you felt during the incident. I recently went thru some of the poison penned letters I wrote to my wife to accompany the misery I was verbally giving her. And, even reading the tirades I wrote gave me an awkward feeling of accomplishment. I was able to iterate my thoughts so she could slowly read and, if my verbal assaults werent making the point, she could know how badly she f---d up my head. The affair so viciously destroyed my already low ego and left me embarassed and with nothing but a feeling of being stuck with this woman (at least until Jr. goes to college, as we have discussed in the past) that those verbal and/or written melt downs did feel good. Maybe if I was a hitter, I couple of raps to her noggin would do the trick. But, no son of my father would dare lay a finger on a girl no matter the infraction. What I am slow to learn is that a remarkably remorseful cheating wife who has done nothing but rebuild that which she sought to destroy, meets my numero uno EN to the nth degree (in bed), has take giant leaps to create a real career, has done whatever I needed to feel protected, and has taken almost 8 months of the "abuse" described above is not someone you find in all of these cases. Many of our brothers in pain are chasing their WW and face the full gamut of MB steps that I luckily avoided. Man, these guys would offer full and complete forgiveness to their wives in a heartbeat if only their wives would come home. Forgiving her in words was easy. The words need to meet reality of real forgiveness. THATS the work in progress.
Life keeps on slipping, slipping, slipping into the fuuuu-ture.
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The words need to meet reality of real forgiveness.
Sounds like a re-statement of my chosen title for this thread, wouldn't you say?
When Santa's poorly chosen attempts at humor have no power to sting you anymore, Mike, you'll know you're there.
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