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MelodyLane - thank you for challenging my responses and defenses.
She called me this evening about rehab, and said she is done... she has heard all the lectures repeatedly over the past rehab internments. I will defend her this last time, and set the boundaries for the future. She thinks she needs outpatient treatment... something I suggested, but did not control her decision a week ago. she and I know she needs help, but only she can choose to pursue it... and I can tell her what my needs are to continue a blessed marriage.
If she comes home and gets drunk tomorrow, I am not sure what to do. I am ready to set boundaries with her, and tell her what I will and won't do for her any more. I am on the brink, and she needs to understand that I won't go to the ends of the earth for her if she wills it.
I am not willing to continue the bloodletting... i want us both to push forward. I know that I am ready... waiting to be sure she is too. Sir, how are you "defending" her when she wants to leave rehab because she us tired of it? The correct word is "enabling" the alcoholism. You've been married for 17 years and likely enabled this disease the entire marriage. If you go to AlAnon, they can teach you how to stop enabling her drinking. As for Dr. Harley's position, he would probably tell you that the "boundary" to have is that if she takes 1 drink, you and the kids leave until she has completed rehab. No exceptions.
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You know Dr Harley is not just an infidelity expert - he also ran the largest chain of addiction clinics in his state. He understands the addict mind very well and it's uncannily similar to the wayward mind. His advice is always exposure, exposure, exposure. It's the only thing that busts up that foggy, lazy mindset when you are just running after temptation to the cost of all else.
Do you think you are the first H to be told he is "controlling" for setting healthy boundary as to acceptable behaviour and refusing to cover up her abuse? If I had a penny on these forums for every time a woman running around with other men, dabbling in addictions claims she is being controlled! What on earth would she be like UNCONTROLLED I always think?!
For some reason this fear of being called controlling is a male issue. Men would raher take a dart to the eye than bear these three little syllables on their broad shoulders. Women don't fall for that 'controlling' nonsense when they are being cheated on. However men are wired to make their wives happy and avoid hurting her - women are much happier to be tough when need be.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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Whenever a betrayed spouse tells me that they�ve just discovered their spouse�s affair, my advice is almost always the same: Let others know about it. Tell your children, family, friends, clergy, and especially the lover�s spouse, if they have one. And this is even to be done during what I call plan A (making an effort to make as many Love Bank deposits, and as few withdrawals as possible).
The problem some people have with that strategy is that it conflicts with the goal of plan A because it�s likely to cause massive Love Bank withdrawals. An unfaithful spouse almost always considers such exposure to be a worse act of betrayal than their affair itself. But the alternative, helping the unfaithful spouse to keep the affair a secret, is enabling the addiction, prolonging the agony.
In the long run, making the affair public knowledge without any forewarnings, threats, or bartering (which by themselves can create massive withdrawals) actually reduces the number of Love Bank withdrawals made by the betrayed spouse. It�s my opinion that the advantages of immediate exposure usually far outweigh the disadvantages.
Many betrayed spouses are afraid that exposure will drive the unfaithful spouse further away. While it�s true that unfaithful spouses usually feel betrayed and angry when their affair is exposed, I regard that reaction as being part of the fog that most addicts experience. When the fog has finally lifted, and the source of addiction no longer has control, the value of exposure is usually conceded by the addict himself.
Some feel that an affair should not be exposed to children. Granted, I would not tell a 3-year old about an affair, simply because a child that young cannot possibly understand what it means. But I would not hesitate to reveal an affair to a child 7 years or older. Exposure to those between those ages should be a matter of discretion.
What about exposure of an affair that took place years earlier and is now ended but recently revealed? I feel that the children, close relatives, close friends, and the lover�s spouse should be informed. Granted, it�s embarrassing to admit an affair, but publicly admitting failure is usually the first step toward redemption. Did you know you can also contact him for free yourself? He answers questions on the radio and would talk to you if you gave him your number.
Last edited by indiegirl; 08/02/14 10:31 AM.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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I have looked up AlAnon meetings, earlier this week, and have them booked on my calendar, but haven't had the chance to go yet.
I have read the threads on exposing A to kids, but still am hesitant. What does it accomplish at this point in recovery? What does telling them lies about your wife accomplish? Does giving kids false explanations about the source of problems in your achieve? It only causes your kids confusion and gives your wife the opportunity to bring the OM around your home.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I never exposed to my 6yo nephew because he wasn't on the exposure list, but he is such a clever one and he despises being patronised and brushed off. So he just sat beneath the dining room table and eavesdropped.
As soon as he had a good handle on what was happening, he jumped up and came over to comfort me. He told me straight off the bat that he couldn't see his best friends any more (OW's children), he told me that the APs 'were really stupid' and he approved highly of my plans to change the locks as he felt that would get through to his adored uncle.
It was a far better reaction than most adults. It also seems to have made him very particular about honesty and being a gentleman.
It really angers me when people talk about lying to their kids as though they have the right to give them confusing and deceptive explanations as though they really are stupid.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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There's another angle you should check into also:
Run a criminal background check on OM.
When my wife was having her affair, I did a background check and discovered that he was a dangerous felon!
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Thanks - good points by everyone.
Kids are aware of the drinking. They think that is the only problem. My wife has been drinking for 20 months - right after the birth of our last child. I drank along with her until early this year. We did not drink much at all (less than 10 drinks a year) before that. I know I'm enabling her, and it won't happen any more. I was burned by not picking her up from one of her rehabs, and OM swooped in to save the day - before the A began. I definitely have baggage over that.
I am struggling with the exposure action, but hear your points, and don't want a serial-cheating spouse. The part that is difficult for me is not that they won't accept it and do everything right, but the fact that they really don't know what's going on. But, other points you've made point to the fact that they see us trying to rebuild our marriage, and probably attribute it all to the alcohol.
I definitely need to go to an Alanon meeting - I didn't even look them up until last week, but there is a meeting just a couple miles from my house every Monday night.
And you're definitely right about the controlling thing, not wanting to hurt my wife. I did understand eventually that it was perfectly healthy to not want OM in our marriage, and expect OM completely cut out.
Also, quite a scary thought - her bringing OM around my house and kids.
BS - Me, 39
WW - Her, 40
DDay - May 14, 2014
4 kids
Married 17 years
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Yes that happens rather a lot. People also get worse the longer they stay wayward, they 'harden'.
As an alcoholic, too, the chances of her bringing an abuser round your kids are pretty high. You have to have a very honest relationship with them to protect them.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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I am struggling with the exposure action, but hear your points, and don't want a serial-cheating spouse. The part that is difficult for me is not that they won't accept it and do everything right, but the fact that they really don't know what's going on. But, other points you've made point to the fact that they see us trying to rebuild our marriage, and probably attribute it all to the alcohol. And keep in mind that they have probably seen or heard things that have made them wonder about an affair, if they haven't already been introduced to the OM. That is usually the case. Your wife is a practicing alcoholic and she wouldn't hesitate to bring him around if she knew she could get away with it. You can't keep it a secret forever and it is much better that they hear it from you. Telling them the truth also prepares for them for eventuality that the OM tries to come back into her life. They will be extra eyes and ears if they know. There is just no reason not to tell them and many reasons to tell them. Kids can deal with the truth, they can't deal with lies.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Talked some with my wife last night, and she wants to lick the addiction. She's been working overtime to find the solution that will detox her and give her the support to keep dry.
When she was not in throes of being drunk, we talked some about the affair. Regardless of what I want to call it, the truth is that it killed me to find out what happened, and the emotional link was the worst. We keep talking around and around with it. Though OM is cut out, she still has that connection flame, much reduced from where it was, but it still exists. She thinks fondly of what happened, other than how she made me feel. She still insists that it was a great friendship that became inappropriate, and thus working through standard "affair recovery" is not valuable. She also insists that we move past this quickly, and I know that's typical, but won't be possible for me.
I guess my question is if the way to get past this disagreement in our personal realities of what happened can only be helped with a marriage counselor? I thought just sharing how this made me feel would allow us start to heal. Just like it took her 6 weeks to hear how her actions were hurting me, and cut it off with OM, I am waiting for that light to go off in her head so we can be on the same page and begin moving forward.
BS - Me, 39
WW - Her, 40
DDay - May 14, 2014
4 kids
Married 17 years
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Has she sobered up yet and begun her plan of recovery or is she still playing head games with you? Because nothing can happen until that occurs. So far she is playing games with you about sobering up and will milk this as long as you continue to enable her.
If she has gone through withdrawal then the next obvious step is to stop drinking and go to AA. Otherwise this is all hopeless and you don't have a marriage, a babysitting position for a selfish, self centered drunk.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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"I guess my question is if the way to get past this disagreement in our personal realities of what happened can only be helped with a marriage counselor? "
What if the "counselor" agrees with her and actually encourages her supportive "friendship" with the OM? Because many will! Many will tell you to suck it up and "stop being so controlling." And hint at how "controlling" and "abusive" you are. Very few marriage counselors understand the dynamics of infidelity and even less understand alcoholism. I can't tell you the times a well meaning "counselor" has actually validated marriage wrecking behavior such as affairs, opposite sex friendships and very often a "trial separation." When that happens it becomes almost impossible to persuade the wayward spouse to change.
We can help get your marriage back on track if you will address and RESOLVE the drinking problem first.
I have been sober for 29 years because my caring husband gave me a choice: stop drinking today or get on the bus to your mothers in Texas. I knew he meant it. He had a list of AA meetings in his hand and he drove me to AA meetings every night for 2 weeks. He and my 2 little boys, age 3 and 4 sat out in the parking lot and waited for me.
If my husband had not put his foot down, there is no telling where I would be today. He saved my life.
You need to take a more serious approach to this. She is not going to get serious until you do.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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She is trying to sober up, and trying to figure out her recovery. The physical withdrawal is still there, but has been getting better. I don't believe she is playing games with me, but I have been a sucker for her explanations before. She is wanting to go to AA, so perhaps the best course of action for me is to look up the meetings and go with her for the time being. Get her into a pattern of sobering up and keeping her sober.
Are you suggesting I put all the marriage repair on hold until I'm convinced she has sobered up? Obviously continue with the intel and doing the things I should be to reduce the chance of affair relapse... but keep out of talking to her about what happened and how it made me feel?
BS - Me, 39
WW - Her, 40
DDay - May 14, 2014
4 kids
Married 17 years
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Ks, yes, your marriage recovery has to wait until she stops drinking. As far as "figuring out recovery" that is your job. She is the drunk here and has absolutely no judgement. She is a sick addict. She needs your assistance. The only thing she is figuring out is how to keep drinking.
I would insist she stop drinking today or find new digs. Otherwise this will go on until she kills herself or ends up in jail.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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And she doesn't even have to admit she had an affair, but she does have to agree to abide by all the extraordinary precautions that would protect you from future affairs.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Alright - thanks for the advice. I guess I go into the bunker for awhile on getting my relationship repaired. It has worn on me doing the Plan A with limited, if any, good results (other than OM out of her life).
BS - Me, 39
WW - Her, 40
DDay - May 14, 2014
4 kids
Married 17 years
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Let me add that someone who is serious about sobering up, sobers up. She is not serious. And a big reason is because you are not serious. Alcoholics quit drinking when they have no other choice. She knows it is optional so sha can play the system forever.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Alright - thanks for the advice. I guess I go into the bunker for awhile on getting my relationship repaired. It has worn on me doing the Plan A with limited, if any, good results (other than OM out of her life). Exactly. Plan a does not work with an alcoholic. It just wears you down until you hate her.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Thanks for all the input. I know what I need to do to make sure the alcohol is gone forever. Time for some tough love.
BS - Me, 39
WW - Her, 40
DDay - May 14, 2014
4 kids
Married 17 years
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Thanks for all the input. I know what I need to do to make sure the alcohol is gone forever. Time for some tough love. You got it! You could be saving her life. That is what a caring spouse does.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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