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There's a lot of great resources on here and I appreciate what you guys do.

I just wanted to explain my situation and see what your recommendations were.

My wife and I have been married 6 years. We are both Christians and I'd never thought either of us really believed or approved of divorce, at all. There have been some unresolved conflicts leading up to this. For me, we've never had good sexual relations because she experiences pain and is unwilling and unaroused. In turn, resentment about this issue over time caused my emotional commitments to her to gradually deteriorate. I know I've been harsher and less willing to listen the last several months. Also she started a business that failed this year and there have been some conflicts regarding money and careers. Our anniversary (2/28) was just before the business failure and it was great. She initiated sex and she enjoyed it, and both of us put up statements on our social media accounts about loving and committing to the other person.

She's started becoming unwilling to talk during discussions about conflict. She just clams up and I have to wait for her, usually 10 or 20 minutes, to talk. During some of our harder discussions this year, I would begin to suggest possible answers or ask what was on her mind/what she was thinking about. I know now this really made her angry, as in my follow-up questions she feels like I'd twist her words or get her to agree to things she doesn't agree with.

In July I called to talk to her while I was out of town, and she fumbled around but eventually said that she wasn't sure that she loved me. I was heartbroken with her and tried to talk to her about what this meant, but she couldn't explain and so I asked her about times recently where we'd actually been intimate and she seemed to concede that she hadn't thought of it that way. This should have been an enormous red flag for me, but she was also having serious health issues at the time (hypertension) and in consoling her I concluded that they were to blame as she assured me that there wasn't any issue with "us" after I got back. Also she started asking not to go to any of my family events at this time because of her hypertension being exacerbated by travel, so I would concede and go alone.

Maybe a month later, she had a fight with me about money and left to go to her parents house for 2 hours. She explained the issue, they took my side on the issue, and told her to come back and apologize to me. I've verified this with them. I was terrified because she left suddenly and wouldn't answer her phone, so I started leaving notes and trying to be as caring as possible for her. I continually tried to talk to her about our issues, as I felt the distance, but she repeatedly assured me that she was fine and that she loved me.

6 weeks ago, I got home from work and she told me she had no feelings for me and wanted to separate. She'd got 2 jobs to support herself, and said she'd felt this way for several months and was just waiting for the financial means to leave. I was stunned. We deliberated about the issue for a couple hours and I begged her for marriage counseling. Our marriage has been hard on me too where I have disappointments, but I strongly do not believe in divorce and had no idea she was hurting so much. She would not agree to counseling until I threw out a number: 6 weeks. She would do 6 weeks of counseling, and promised me she would do it with an open mind.

Counseling went relatively well, and the counselor focused on our communication issues, working on her being more open, and me being less opinionated/harsh with her. He gave me some books that have really challenged and helped me, but she had no materials assigned. At home, she was cold. She made it a particular point to say she did not love me, wouldn't undress around me, and volunteered to go in early or stay late at work to avoid being home. Her disposition improved over the 5 weeks she stayed (friendly, polite), but she was adamant about those 3 issues.

Earlier this week, I found this forum doing some web searches. I had become discouraged because my wife would tell her parents or our pastor that things were improving and she was going to stay and fix things, but then tell me privately that she felt the same as before or didn't know. Counseling started to make her upset as we dug up some of her hurts and inability to tell me about them, and she blamed me for making her look like the bad guy. I just thought it wasn't working and we were running out of time.

On here I read about the likelihood of an affair, and it all started coming together for me. I noticed she was on the phone constantly when I wasn't around, and hung up as soon as I was. One time I casually engaged her about who she was talking to and caught her in a lie (told me it was different people at different points in the convo). One night I picked up her phone and tried to check it....passworded. I wanted to hack it but instead just asked her honestly for the password. She got angry and accused me of being controlling and manipulative, so I caved and gave it back.

Next day, she went into counseling and told our MC that she's done and the counseling makes her feel controlled, and that she wants permanent separation. Before I even got home she took some clothes and left, leaving a note saying she was with a female friend (who I've never met or seen) for an indefinite amount of time.

I called her parents and followed up with our pastor, checking to see if my suspicions that she'd been lying to them were true. She had. Even the day before she left (after the phone fight) she had told her parents she was going to work things out. Everyone in her family is hurt and confused by this, we're all very tight knit and get along. All of her siblings have contacted me to express support and her parents also.

So far I've put a tracker in her car (snuck it up to her work) and noted where she's going, as well as undeleting files on her computer. I'd noticed she'd cleared things out the day she left. On her computer were about 10 or 20 selfies of her in nice clothes or dress, and a few of another guy. Nothing really racy, just nicely dressed and combed hair. Half of the photos were too corrupted to recover. No luck on getting anything that would reveal her call/text records, not sure how to go forward there.

She's been out to eat almost every time she's ate since she's left, and that is unusual. I borrowed a friend's car and tried to catch some photographs of her leaving one of the places, but she was with a group. Also, nobody on the street where her car is goes by the name she provided (I cross referenced using Spokeo), and there are at least 2 males our age that have shared interests with her on the street.

I'm just at a loss as to how to go forward. My image of her (and the image most of her family has) has been shattered by her dishonesty in this situation. Nobody knows how to react. I am nearly certain that she is cheating because of all of the clues, but everyone is advising me caution and telling me my zeal about it is harmful (in the event that I'm wrong).

She hasn't acted like she'd do anything wrong with our bank account, but she has consistently manipulated me (e.g. asking me to fix her car) and is paying some her bills out of my bank account without depositing paychecks in it. After everything that has happened, I feel like I'm foolish if I do not either follow up and verify/expose the affair as well as doing Plan B type measures to keep her from siphoning off my money and support.

My genuine interest is to save the marriage because despite our issues, she's (until now) always been a beautiful and wonderful person, and my faith instructs me to. I just don't know what the best course of action is. Without phone records (I can't afford a PI), I don't know how to verify infidelity and the people in her family who know I am trying to dig think I am playing with fire (they're not yet convinced).

I have truly no idea what her motivations or thoughts are because she says she "can't" talk to me. Her family says she used to be like this when she was younger about conflict. What do you guys think.


Happily remarried to wonderful woman who I found using the guidelines in "Buyers, Renters, Freeloaders"
2 baby boys, working on #3 and couldn't ask for anything more.

When my ex's affair happened: BH 28, Ex-WW:29
Married: 7 years
Together: 8 years
D-day: 10/5/2014
D filed: 1/22/2015
D Final: 6/4/2015

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Sir,
I think you should hire a PI and get evidence of her affair.

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Also, every single person in my family accused her of cheating when this all started (she announced her wanting to separate) and said they'd seen this coming for years. It's made it very difficult to talk to them objectively because they are very distrusting. I feel foolish in that regard, like they all saw something I couldn't.

Last edited by axslinger85; 09/27/14 02:04 PM.

Happily remarried to wonderful woman who I found using the guidelines in "Buyers, Renters, Freeloaders"
2 baby boys, working on #3 and couldn't ask for anything more.

When my ex's affair happened: BH 28, Ex-WW:29
Married: 7 years
Together: 8 years
D-day: 10/5/2014
D filed: 1/22/2015
D Final: 6/4/2015

My story
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axslinger, you need to hire a PI. Find the money somehow. I am confused about why you can't catch her if you have a GPS on her, but if you can't it is time to hire a professional. They can usually get everything you need in a couple of days. Even if you have to take out another credit card, you should do this. If you have the facts, we can help you save your marriage if that is possible.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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GPS has only been on since Thursday of this week. She left my house Wednesday night after counseling. I know where the house is that she's staying at, but when she left she left a note saying she wanted space to "think" about things and that she was staying with a female friend.

I have an address and some possible names (Spokeo), but no smoking gun that this is an affair and not what she says it is. I feel like I need a photo of PDA or at least a confirmation that it's a male-only residence to be certain. Or maybe some texts/call records. What's normally the burden of proof? What's the best way to take advantage of the GPS?

Also, going to look into methods tonight for financing a PI.


Happily remarried to wonderful woman who I found using the guidelines in "Buyers, Renters, Freeloaders"
2 baby boys, working on #3 and couldn't ask for anything more.

When my ex's affair happened: BH 28, Ex-WW:29
Married: 7 years
Together: 8 years
D-day: 10/5/2014
D filed: 1/22/2015
D Final: 6/4/2015

My story
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Sir,

Being a "a male only residence" isn't always the best proof.
There are some posters whose wives left them for a same-sex affair!

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Originally Posted By: axslinger85

Also, nobody on the street where her car is goes by the name she provided (I cross referenced using Spokeo), and there are at least 2 males our age that have shared interests with her on the street.


I'm confused, did she provide a name of who she was going out to eat with? And what does 'shared interests' mean?

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First, you should discontinue the counseling. It is only going to hurt and not help your situation, especially if she is in an affair. And then you should read up on Plan A. While you are gathering evidence of the affair, you will want to be in Plan A.

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Originally Posted By: axslinger85
Counseling started to make her upset as we dug up some of her hurts and inability to tell me about them, and she blamed me for making her look like the bad guy. I just thought it wasn't working and we were running out of time.


Bringing up past hurts is what most marriage counselors do. All that does is bring you back to the emotional pain of the past, it does not do anything to create a better present and future for your marriage.

Most marriage counselors have NO idea how to deal with affairs and from what you have written, it looks like your counselor is no exception to this.

This counselor is not helping you at all.

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Also, your family are not experts on affairs either. You SHOULD be a bulldog about finding out the facts, this is your wife and marriage you are fighting for! How can you fight for it if you don't have the facts. How is it 'playing with fire' to find out the facts about your own marriage, so that you can fight to save it?

Playing with fire is watching your marriage burn around you while you do nothing.

So good job working to find the funds to finance a PI, that is the quickest way to get the evidence that you need. When you get it, do not immediately confront her, come back here and the veteran forum members can advise you on the next step.

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"I'm confused, did she provide a name of who she was going out to eat with? And what does 'shared interests' mean?"

There's been no contact since she left. She left a note Thursday saying she was staying with a female friend from work that none of us have seen or heard of. I know she's where eating because I'm able to track her car's location and see her going to restaurants nearly every meal. This is highly unusual for her because she is a penny pincher around me about eating out.

Shared interests means I crossed referenced the current/past residents of the street she's staying at using Spokeo with their Facebook profiles, and many of them are into the same things she's into. Just looking for possible candidates to match the photos I've found of a male on her computer. No luck yet.

Thanks for the support. Sometimes I don't think the family understands what I'm trying to do here. My family worries about me getting into trouble over something that can't be salvaged, her family is still not convinced she is capable of an affair, they think she's just upset with me. I haven't been making accusations with her family, just asking questions they think are unfair. What a circus.

I'm not talking to either side about it again until I get a PI report and can speak with facts.


Happily remarried to wonderful woman who I found using the guidelines in "Buyers, Renters, Freeloaders"
2 baby boys, working on #3 and couldn't ask for anything more.

When my ex's affair happened: BH 28, Ex-WW:29
Married: 7 years
Together: 8 years
D-day: 10/5/2014
D filed: 1/22/2015
D Final: 6/4/2015

My story
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Originally Posted By: axslinger85


I'm not talking to either side about it again until I get a PI report and can speak with facts.


That is the PERFECT approach.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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I have one sibling who has been on the level with me about this (and not judgmental towards my spouse...sib is a mental health worker so they understand the dynamics) and is very $$$ successful...they have agreed to help me with the $$$ for PI so tomorrow I find one and we go from there. Any tips on who to pick? I'll check the forum for tips as well.

Lots of communications to me from both sides of the family today via text or call. Wife has destroyed so much by lying to everyone, it's daunting and intimidating to think of what will have to be rebuilt. My family is ready to consider things over because they see this as a moral failure (can't see how I've contributed to it), her family is heartbroken because she has repeatedly lied to them about her intentions to reconcile and now won't return calls or texts. They are texting me telling me this, as well as being supportive (e.g. "don't give up on her"). Their support has been invaluable but I hurt for them. I am stunned that she has done this to them.

I'm also a bit shaken about the future because she has lied to them about me in an attempt to justify the separation. I'm hoping exposure will bring moral clarity to them but it is their child. She's framed me as controlling and sexually demanding/imposing, trying to paint the marriage as a sham or unfortunate. I only know because her parents relayed this to me with some skepticism about it, but I just worry words can't be unsaid.

This week will be interesting, hoping for swift response from the PI. Wife's weekend from her work week is Wednesday/Thursday and her Monday/Tuesday job is only a block from our house. Curious to see if she drops by and tries to move more of her stuff out, she left with only a backpack of clothes. She will avoid me at all costs, she's terrified of confrontation with anyone at this point.


Happily remarried to wonderful woman who I found using the guidelines in "Buyers, Renters, Freeloaders"
2 baby boys, working on #3 and couldn't ask for anything more.

When my ex's affair happened: BH 28, Ex-WW:29
Married: 7 years
Together: 8 years
D-day: 10/5/2014
D filed: 1/22/2015
D Final: 6/4/2015

My story
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Got my PI and am meeting him later with my evidence and facts up to this point.

A note of encouragement for any who read this in a similar situation...there are some dopey PIs out there. I had one guy try to advise me on what to do/not do about the marriage after telling me he needed my attorney's advice on what evidence to gather/how to get it because he wasn't sure of legal boundaries in evidence gathering. He told me I'd gotten "bad advice" in confronting her with evidence and that I should just wait for the affair to die or divorce her.

I just kept calling until I got someone who sounded confident and capable.


Happily remarried to wonderful woman who I found using the guidelines in "Buyers, Renters, Freeloaders"
2 baby boys, working on #3 and couldn't ask for anything more.

When my ex's affair happened: BH 28, Ex-WW:29
Married: 7 years
Together: 8 years
D-day: 10/5/2014
D filed: 1/22/2015
D Final: 6/4/2015

My story
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Ax you are doing good here. Good job on lining up a credible PI, and I am happy to hear about the support you are getting from your families.

If you haven't already, go read up on exposure. I will try to copy the link for you. When you get the evidence, you should not immediately confront her with it, but rather come here for advice on exposure. Doing a full, immediate, and credible exposure will not only kill the affair, but will also help garner you support despite the buildup of bad mouthing your wife has already done prior to leaving. But you have to be bold, do it all at the same time and not trickle expose, and not tip her off about it in advance.

Can you do that, come here with the evidence? I know getting evidence is the tip of the ice berg emotionally, so having a plan now will keep you from just 'reacting' to the emotions, rather than following a precise plan to kill the affair.

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The Exposure 101 link is at the end of MelodyLane's post a couple posts up.

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Originally Posted By: axslinger85
Got my PI and am meeting him later with my evidence and facts up to this point.

A note of encouragement for any who read this in a similar situation...there are some dopey PIs out there. I had one guy try to advise me on what to do/not do about the marriage after telling me he needed my attorney's advice on what evidence to gather/how to get it because he wasn't sure of legal boundaries in evidence gathering. He told me I'd gotten "bad advice" in confronting her with evidence and that I should just wait for the affair to die or divorce her.


He should stick to his day job since he knows nothing about saving marriages. Good for you for being selective!


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Do you guys have any advice on getting call records? She's using a prepaid account where the provider doesn't provide them in billing. I feel like there would be irrefutable evidence on the phone, and probably sexting. I didn't find anything too racy on the photos I recovered from her PC, but half the photos were too corrupted to view and at least some were sexual (tight shirts, photos of her rear profile). And those were just the photos on the PC she had bothered copying off her phone, and then deleting.


Happily remarried to wonderful woman who I found using the guidelines in "Buyers, Renters, Freeloaders"
2 baby boys, working on #3 and couldn't ask for anything more.

When my ex's affair happened: BH 28, Ex-WW:29
Married: 7 years
Together: 8 years
D-day: 10/5/2014
D filed: 1/22/2015
D Final: 6/4/2015

My story
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PI I found wants $1k to do two 5 hours sessions of following her around after work later this week/early next. No VARS because he says they are illegal.

Sound legit?


Happily remarried to wonderful woman who I found using the guidelines in "Buyers, Renters, Freeloaders"
2 baby boys, working on #3 and couldn't ask for anything more.

When my ex's affair happened: BH 28, Ex-WW:29
Married: 7 years
Together: 8 years
D-day: 10/5/2014
D filed: 1/22/2015
D Final: 6/4/2015

My story
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 968
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Found her friend she's allegedly staying with using Google/Facebook...this person lives in a completely different part of town than where wife has parked her car each night. Miles away.

Found a male friend she used to talk to me frequently about (and who she's very active on the Facebook profile of) using Google/Facebook....took me forever to get his last name, all I had was the first and his occupation (small biz owner)....but I got it. He lives about a block or two from where the car is. They have taken college classes together in the past.

I'm wondering if I need the PI at this point. If I had a good camera and a different car to borrow, I'd bet I could get some pictures/video myself. Highly suspect of this guy, always have been. Have never met him but she told me too much about him for me to be comfortable.

Thoughts? PI I settled on couldn't get started until the end of the week. Might even try to call more to find someone who can start tomorrow, I think this case is about cracked.

Last edited by axslinger85; 09/29/14 09:49 PM.

Happily remarried to wonderful woman who I found using the guidelines in "Buyers, Renters, Freeloaders"
2 baby boys, working on #3 and couldn't ask for anything more.

When my ex's affair happened: BH 28, Ex-WW:29
Married: 7 years
Together: 8 years
D-day: 10/5/2014
D filed: 1/22/2015
D Final: 6/4/2015

My story
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