I came home in a great mood today ... Plan A in full-force. Except he is SOOOOOOO irritated that I was in such a good mood. He actually told me that he called her today, but it was "only a question about [something related to his business]". Whatever. He said she doesn't understand why they can't talk anymore since what they were doing wasn't wrong! Seriously?

But he just took a break to call me tonight - he hasn't done that in a while. Just to chit-chat. Kind of nice. Maybe he's coming around.

Ummm... you are right... a little. In the USA... the entire USA... a person cannot be deprived of peoperty without due process. The H could come home and break into his own home... since it is his home... noc crime is committed. We went on these calls all the time. No lawsuit is required... just a good strong sledge hammer.

Nothing incredibly exciting yet today ... but I'm wondering when it is that I am supposed to put my foot down about his A? I've known about it for a long time, confronted him the 1st time 2 1/2 weeks ago, confronted him the 2nd time 1 1/2 weeks ago, and have been getting more and more info with each passing day. When do I say "enough is enough"? When do I quit allowing an A to take place right under my nose? If it doesn't end, what do I do then? Plan B? And what else can I do to encourage it to end and get NC?

You don't allow it to continue under your nose. That's what exposure is all about. Additionally, plan A means you're supposed to let your WS suffer their own consequences of the affair.

Therefore, you continue to show him how much his continued affair hurts you. You continue to expose whenever he contacts OW, you keep the pressure on him for NC to take place...and at the same time keep up the carrot of plan A...make yourself a better choice over OW, by meeting his EN's where you can and making positive changes for yourself.

Make sense?

It does indeed. So, then when do you do Plan B? When you just can't take it anymore?

Yes, but you need to plan A long enough for WH to see what he will be missing. How well is your plan A going? Have you eliminated LBs and DJs? Have you figured out which of his ENs were going unmet?

Plan B is most effective after a good Plan A.

I think I should Plan A a bit longer ... I think my Plan A has gone pretty good (certainly not perfect). I've eliminated all LBs EXCEPT confronting with evidence of contact with OW - which I refuse to quit doing. Other than that, I think I'm going alright.

His top ENs: SF, Domestic Support, Attractive Spouse, Admiration (in no particular order)

- SF is going unmet at current b/c I don't know if he's sleeping with her. But it was met up until about 3 weeks ago (which is the longest we've ever gone without SF, and this is in the top 3 for us both) ... not sure when I can meet this one again.
- Domestic Support has never been better! I am a better Mom than ever before, and my house is actually clean!
- Attractive Spouse has not ever been an issue with us, but I am in better shape than ever before and he's loving it! And I'm also dressing cuter at home - no more sweats!
- Admiration is the hardest one for me b/c I don't like him a whole lot right now, but I have still done an excellent job of blowing up his ego when I find the right opportunity (especially since I knocked it out with my A). I'm cautious not to go overboard on this one though.

It seems as though the A has died down, but I want absolutely NC ... and he thinks they can just be friends. She doesn't understand how what they were doing was wrong. So, I think I should work Plan A a while longer and try to get another MC session w/ SH so he can explain to H why what they were doing was wrong. Sounds like my best option right?

TFC,

With regard to respect, have you considered how he has handled your A? I mean do you respect him for remaining married? Do you respect him for putting up with your stuff while in the A?

You must understand that plan A is usually measured in months. Plan B is to preserve the love bank when it is starting to go dry.

I know it is hard to read yourself with regard to this, because clearly you found someone else more attractive to you than your H for sometime. So I really don't know how to tell you what your love bank should be for him. But, you will know.

It sounds as if your plan A is doing very well. It also seems from what you have said that it is working. You must recall that plan A is planting seeds and often does not end the A. Exposure (yes part of plan A) will help. Time will help because as Dr. Harley and others have observed most A's end. The issue is the state of things once the A does end.

Your plan A is to minimize the damage from your side, it is to plant seeds, and it is buying you time for the A to end.

Plan B just removes you from the game, but with the idea of slowing the lose of love. Again the idea is that the A will end, and when it does you want to have some love left in the bank for recovery. Recovery takes a lot of love and yes patience.

You are doing well, keep doing it. Oh and exposing when you find contact is NOT an LB unless it is accompaning by a good swearing out. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> You can state your truths without love busting.

God Bless,

JL

I respect him as a person, but I do not respect his behavior. I certainly respect that he has not yet left the M, but I don't respect that he's getting even. So, I guess the answer to your question is - yes I respect him, but not as much as I could.


Patience has never been one of my strongest qualities. This situation is certainly testing my level of patience, but I find it growing more and more. I just need to remember to be patient.


I've been careful not to be mean when confronting about contact. Only once did I curse and raise my voice - that was when I confronted about the pictures b/c he was lying right to my face. Otherwise, I've been thanking him for his honesty in hopes that he would continue.

I am just feeling like "where are we going from here?". But I am grateful that contact between them has slowed. It is a step in the right direction.

TFC,

Perhaps I was a bit obtuse. Sorry.

I meant if you respect that he has not left the marriage, tell him. If you respect that he was forced to deal with a lot of pain and did not run, then tell him. My point was to point out areas where you might have developed some respect for him.

You see you clearly showed him you had none with your A. So unlike the more normal BS, you are starting from a position of having shown him little or no respect. That was all I was trying to point out.

TFC, perhaps this will help your patience. He is running right now. He is running from himself and his pain. He will get tired of running and he may already be doing that. You just keep walking along, and you will find him on the side of the road bent over from fatigue. Patience, relentless patience is required. But also take care of yourself in the process you will need your strength.

God Bless,

JL

I see. I will be sure to comment on what I respect about him during our dinner on Friday.

JL - you are amazing! I needed that today ... I can't thank you enough!

Supposedly he ended it with OW today ... I don't know if I believe him, though. And he still wants a D. So why end it with her then?

The OW is really not the problem here... she is a symptom of what is wrong in your M. The fact that he may have broken up with her does not fix the fact that your H does not feel safe with you... and with good reason. See... let's just assume for a minute that the OW was the reason he was gone... it would make sense for him to come home when that stimulus is out of the picture. But really, the woman that has kept him away from home (even if not in body) is you. That is where the focus needs to be here... because you may succeed in breaking up their relationship... and still wind up divorced. No, the goal here needs to be to make him feel safe to come home. I can tell you and I have told you this in the past.. you have and are doing some things that would drive me away for good. I don't know if your H feels the same way... but it would drive me nuts. I have seen you be judgemental towards the OW and the school teacher... but remember it was YOU that started this whole mess. That would drive me nuts. The other thing is your judgements about him as a father and the things you will or will not allow (as if you really have any authority over your H... did he have any over you to stop you from screwing your OM?). Snooping is an issue too. I just really believe that while your entire focus should have been on you that you have spent too much time focusing your attention on other people.

I must say that I am still focused on me, but I have also been focused on ending his A so that we can begin to repair our M. Would you then suggest that I just ignore the fact that he's been in an A and only work on me? I think that in order to rebuild the M I have to both end his A and work on myself. I will agree that it was wrong of me to judge the school teacher after what I did. (Btw - she told my H that I was really nice and they should feel bad for talking crap about me.) I have not once forgotten that we wouldn't be in this mess if weren't for my poor choices and selfish behavior. As far as my judgments about him as a father, I feel that I have every right to let him know when his behavior affects our DD. There were a lot of signs that it was affecting her that I haven't discussed here. After talking to his mom, she and I both felt it was important to let him how his behavior was affecting DD and encourage it to change. Which he has done, and I am very grateful for that.

So, if I were your W (and you hadn't left me yet) what would you look for to feel safe? to feel like it might be worth working on? to not run out and get a D?

Just a few points... one... your actions harmed your daughter... but I have heard about what a great mom you are... a protector for your child and how your A never took away from your daughter. I hope you know that is all hogwash.

I would be looking for

honesty... you are NOT being honest with him right now
integrity
remorse
understanding of how you hurt me ( I think you miss the boat here).
patience
patience
patience(I think we both can agree that this is a major issue for you)
A realization that you are not my mother or keeper... that I am at the very least, your equal.
I would expect to see you focused on you!

TFC... YOU have major control issues. YOU cannot end his affair... if that is what it is. You may hope it ends, you may do things to that end... but you cannot end it. And you always have a little BTW comment after you admit something wrong... see above... let me tell you, BTW, anyone that cheats on their spouse is not "really nice." Talking crap about you was most likely deserved since there was a lot to talk about.

I have offered support to a lot of FWS here. I have to say though that there is something in your appraoch that still would rub me the wrong way. YOu have the control thing and something that almost seems like arrogance. IMHO, you should be humbled that your BH is even willing to speak to you right now...and that this attitude would result in you being less judgemental and more understanding of what you have brought into this marriage. AT the very least... it would give you patience and a softer heart when dealing with your H.

MEDC

As you can see, TFC, there are a myriad of posters out here and some are more insightful than others. When in doubt, always go back to the principles Dr. Harley has expressed in SAA and on his radio show. BTW, you can "ignore" a user such as me, or anyone else, by simply clicking on my/his/her screen name and then clicking on "ignore this user."

Of course you should be working to smash this affair. It's not even remotely a control issue. It's standing up for the principles expressed in your wedding vows. It's what we do here on MB. We work to end adultery and help folks recover from it. Confronting your WH about his continued adultery is not a LB, btw. It's setting a boundary and every spouse has that God-given right.

When doubters seem to abound, TFC, go to Pepperband's "Carrot and Stick of Plan A" and Dr. Harley's SAA to refresh your memory of what you should be doing.

Hang in there, TFC. Trust your instincts and keep working for a true recovery in your marriage.

Thanks for your input Longhorn - I have appreciated having your opinions and advice during this difficult time.

Well, he didn't really end it yesterday - like I thought. I didn't handle things the MB way ... I told him just to go ahead and leave the house. If he's not living with me and we're separated I can't say anything about it, but I've asked him nicely and he's lied and said he ended it when he really didn't. He can do whatever he wants if we're not still M.

So now he says he just ended it over the phone. I just don't know if I can believe him.

I suppose I need to re-read SAA tonight ...

yeah... its funny all the posters out there with ni insight... Melody Lane, Big K, Mrs. W... all gave the same advice on this thread earlier on. Guess all of those should be on block too.

Skimming through SAA to refresh your thoughts can't ever be wrong. I do it also and I'm divorced. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

TFC, your WH is foggy and sitting on the fence. You must expect him to lie, to be defensive, and to attempt to prolong his contact with OW as long as he can. That's human nature. It's not very attractive, but it's natural. Accept that, do your confrontations and do your best Plan A, while preparing for Plan B. Don't worry about slips. No one does a perfect Plan A so don't expect that of yourself. Too much pressure. Telling him to leave wasn't that serious a fall from the wagon anyway.

Like I said, hang in there. Try to find whatever peace you can through your Plan A efforts, your friends, and family, okay?

Thanks a million ... I feel much better about it now. Now I am going to have to Plan A better than ever during his withdrawal period (assuming its really over).