Originally Posted by Soolee
How much exclusive time do you spend with your wife - like maybe taking a walk and talking or sitting somewhere quiet with very little other distractions? Can you see yourself just doing this to do it and removing any pressure off yourself to feel anything? Stop analyzing how you feel? Just to see what happens after several attempts?

I currently spend almost zero time alone with my wife in recreational activities. Am I willing to spend more time with her? No. Hurts too much when it does not lead to sex. I understand that I am DJing my wife. I am predicting that she has not changed and will not change and that my past experience will be repeated. I understand it is possible we might spend time together and she might react differently than she did in the past. I am not willing to take the risk that she won't. I am confortable in my Withdrawal.

Which is exactly where I am. Unwilling to move to the state of Conflict. If I were willing to spend time with her and then attempt to POJA more sex, that would create Conflict.

I insist that she Plan A me. She meet my needs. With no expectation of immediate reciprocation. In the hope that I will eventually choose to meet her needs in return. Not POJA, where I brainstorm and negotiate ways for both of us to be enthusiastic currently. I am not going to be enthusiastic about having to "earn" SF.

I know that is not how Dr. Harley says it works. Eliminate LBs. Work to meet her needs. And the sex will follow. Not for us. Not after 8 years of counselling and me working to meet her needs and getting nothing in return. Either she shows herself willing to provide SF whether or not her needs are getting met or I continue to play PS3.

The good news is that I am getting older. My sex drive is way down. I don't miss it as much. I still hold it against her that it doesn't happen more often. But the absence is not as debilitating. I used to play computer games and spend much of the time fretting about the lack of sex. The games were not sufficiently distracting. Now I play PS3 for hours and I do not give a single thought to Mrs. Hold or to sex.

In the past I missed her and reached out to her and got rejected. Now, she comes to visit me at the console and I am curt with her. These days, I prefer the "sure thing" of rejecting her to the risky and messy process of negotiating to get my needs met. I still don't get my needs met. But at least I don't get overtly rejected.

My "game plan" is to wait until the kids are grown. Then give our marriage another chance. At that point she could not hold custody of the kids over my head. So I can see myself negotiating on a more level playing field.

I understand by ignoring her I am taking the chance that she will choose to divorce me before the kids leave. I see that as a very low risk. I don't totally ignore her. We talk every day. I bought her the cooktop and the new tv. It is just at night after the kids are asleep that I avoid being alone with her in the bedroom. I don't imagine she will hold that against me enough to divorce over.

Originally Posted by themud
Hold, do you think W would have had SF with you then? I know that exercise can increase ones testosterone even in women, which might increase their libido. Thoughts?

I was at the office and she was home. No opportunity for sex. Do I think she might have more sex with me than in the past because she exercises more? Maybe. Am I willing to "woo" her in the hopes she will? No. I am done with wooing her. BTDT. Have the scars and burn marks to prove it. At this point she needs to woo me.

She gets the paycheck married or divorced. She wants the time and attention, she needs to show that she can reliably meet my need for SF. Otherwise, she can take her ENs and do whatever she wants with them. But don't bring them to me.

When you can see it coming, duck!