Bubbles, I can't believe you have no comment on Mrs. Hold wanting to go back to school to get a certificate so she can get a job.

What I really have a hard time with is YOU not making her work. You wait until SHE wants to do it. I will believe it when I see it, her working a job, saving money, and quitting her overspending habits.

Not true. I was quite explicit about this. I had been in individual and group counselling for several years immediately preceding and while I was dating Mrs. Hold. I told her all about my struggles. She simply did not believe me. She thought I was being modest. She simply could not imagine a person as academically gifted as me not being a success at work. Now she knows better.

She definitely could not imagine that her refusing to have sex with me would make the situation worse. Sex, after all, is no big deal. It can't be a big deal. Because if it were a big deal, then being raped would be a big deal. And we all know that the rapes did not affect her at all. Since the rapes were much ado about nothing, then sex must be much ado about nothing. And much ado about nothing can't impact one's work performance or career success, can it?

I have this feeling that due to her problems, Mrs Hold WOULD NOT have more sex with a man who made substantially more money than you make now.

HOLD, your life is full of "Mirages"...

MIRAGE #1. You work hard and save up a lot of money in a retirement account. You trust your wife to manage the money, since she has an accounting background. You picture nice financial goals, a comfortable lifestyle, college money for both your kids, and early retirement. You are working hard, saving, and doing everything right.

But, alas, it is a MIRAGE!

(Your wife; is allowed to; and simply blows your entire retirement account on junk and spends all the credit cards up to thier limits in one year. There goes your comfortable lifestyle and your possibility of retirement and the kids college fund and you are forced to move to a cheaper house and a town you do not like )


MIRAGE #2. You want great marital sex and lots of it. You feel your wife would want more sex if she was healed from being raped when in college. So you pay for and work for 12 years getting marriage counseling and counseling for your wife's rapes in order to try and get a better sex life. You picture your wife desiring frequent, good sex with you. Your picture is of a sexually normal, sexually willing, wife. You are happily moving toward that goal with the investment in all the counseling.

But, alas...IT IS A MIRAGE!

(She changes nothing from the years of counseling and the truth comes out years later that she is just not into you! Counseling would not, and could not help! She not only does not want sex with you, she comes out and says she is not into you and lied all through the expensive counseling you paid for!)


MIRAGE #3. You think maybe your wife would be more attracted to you if you made twice or three times your current salary! Even perhaps the wife herself thinks this or makes it appear to you she is thinking this. You can keep this financial goal in mind. As the reason she does not want willing, happy sex with you now.

But, alas, it too, will prove to be a MIRAGE.

(Your wife does not like sex nor would she want sex even if you made three times your present salary! She is damaged. And refuses to heal or change. Also she is supremely selfish and you cannot have anything you want with such a selfish woman.)

I just have a comment on the "glass half empty" thing. There is a difference between people who are highly skeptical, and people who hate themselves and have no motivation. The former is often attractive while the latter almost never is.

Also, Hold, is there any reason for your performance at work other than the fact that your job doesn't interest you that much? I haven't read the whole thread, but could you have a learning disability or ADD or anything? I know a lot of people with ADD who are your age grew up always feeling like they had fallen short of their potential even if they got good grades and sort of hating themselves without knowing why.

I definitely have ADD. Took ADD meds for a while. made no difference.

As you say, there are no meds for people who hate themselves and have no motivation to succeed.

HOLD, I almost think that you love drama. It looks to me as if you are "playing the role" of the "sad sack" because YOU ARE VERY GOOD AT PLAYING THAT ROLE.

Why not get more of an "acting range" and try a different role?

And what may I ask is YOUR definition of success?

Bubbles, I don't always agree with you, but I have to applaud the following statement:

Almost think? Almost? How can it be otherwies? I LOVE the drama. I live for the andrenaline rush. I am constantly anxious about something. I wouldn't know how to be relaxed if a swallowed an entire bottle of Valium!

Not that I put that energy to productive use. But I certainly never take any action until the anxiety level has risen to a crescendo.

book

book

book

book

book

book

book

book

book

book

book

Have fun...

Hold, I saw a photo of a blobfish today and instantly thought of you. At least you're memorable.

Pray tell, what is wrong with this statement? I disagree with your generalization. Feelings oftentimes follow intentional actions, I think that is what HOLD was referring to. When people are depressed, they don't wait for the negative feelings associated with depression to subside, they have to take deliberative actions despite their current feelings in order to eliminate the depression (exercise, eating right, medications, counseling, etc.), as one example.


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Whats wrong with the statement is. Feelings will come and go, but more to the point Whatever Hold does the mental set from where he derives happiness will remain, therefore nothing will change.





This is a generalization that I disagree with. I know plenty of glass half empty women. Attorneys are born skeptics. They are highly paid to be glass half empty skeptics. Industry analysis of the legal profession has consistently shown this to be the case (just ask HOLD - he'll tell you the same thing I bet). There are plenty of women married to attorneys that are plenty happy despite the glass half empty skeptical personality.

Don't get me wrong, I hear what you are saying, that some women want their knight in shining armor, to be swept off their feet, but not all women want this.


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You are right that women can get away with this glass half empty attitude. It is very often viewed by men as �damsel in distress� men love to be the saviour. Unfortunately the reverse does not apply for men.
All women want �Man in shining armour,�
Women are hardwired this way no matter what they do or say. Even if it is just an illusion.

I admire your faithfulness. I agree with this: "When people are depressed, they don't wait for the negative feelings associated with depression to subside, they have to take deliberative actions despite their current feelings in order to eliminate the depression (exercise, eating right, medications, counseling, etc.), as one example."

It is amazing how well Mrs. Hold and I get along now that I have given up on having sex. Wish I had been as fatalistic as this years ago.

You guys have it all wrong. My sad sack attitude is not the problem. It is the only thing making this bearable. My sad sack attitude allows me to give up. Stop trying. By giving up on having a satisfying sex life, I have created compatibility with Mrs. Hold.

Back when I had hope and I was still trying, I couldn't stand being with her. I gave up on date nights because they were torture. Mrs. Hold and I went out last Thursday and had a great time. I think she would have been amendable to sex if I had initiated. But I was not in the mood.

This being a glass half full pessimistic guy is the best.

Oh, Soolee, thank you. That was alot of effort on my behalf. I appreciate it. I ordered 3 books. Next week is vacation so I should have some reading time.

You too?

Bubbles;

Despite the context, that is FREAKING hilarious. I've half a mind to print that statement on a T-shirt. Thank you; I really needed that today.

Hold;

RE: ADD - finally, an area where I might offer something of value...if I can remember what it was...

Sorry.

Hey, if I don't make fun of myself, someone else will. Why should they get the credit?

Anyway, I've dealt with it since childhood. I have found some relief from ADD by using a combination of fish oil supplements, an iron supplement (men have to be a little careful with iron supplements, but it's working for me), along with vitamin C to help process the iron. I have also found help using a SAM-E supplement.

Some folks have luck using ginko biloba, but I didn't realize any improvement with it. Still, YMMV.

This may or may not be helpful, especially considering that your condition sounds very situational, but I would be remiss if I didn't pass it along. Admittedly, it won't fix you marriage or career issues, but it might help you feel a little better/think more clearly. What do you have to lose but a trip to the vitamin isle at the drug store?

Hold, the progress with your relationship is very impressive.

Coming to a sense of fatalism about things you can not change is

a major leap forward.

I have a comment on the ADD thing as well, as I am very close to a few people that have it. Not everyone benefits from every kind of medication for ADD. I don't know if you've done this yet but another option you have is to find a qualified ADD coach. This is not like therapy but rather to have someone to keep you motivated and find strategies to reach your goals while working around the attention issues. For a lot of people this is the single most helpful part of treatment. A good book that mentions how this should work is called Driven to Distraction, which might be a great read for you.

That was funny. I remember hearing something on a record once when I was a kid. One of those live concerts. Might have been a Peter, Paul and Mary concert, and one of them was saying that swimming to them meant staying alive in the water. It always made me laugh.

Carry on...