Originally Posted By: Mark1952
EE,

I guess we must be an anomaly since when confronted my wife said she was sure she wanted a divorce.


I think you and your wife are an anomaly.

Or are you trying to simply convince me that I'm not the man you are?
Originally Posted By: Mark1952


Now she helps me teach this stuff to other couples.


That's great. Too bad she wasn't around to lovingly confront my ex-wife and deliver the lesson when she was moving out three weeks after giving me the ILYBINILWY speech.
Originally Posted By: Mark1952


You're right that many women have already checked out of the marriage before beginning an affair, but that doesn't preclude changing her mind.


Nor does this program ensure you will be able to change her mind either. One can always try. My question is what is the TYPICAL success rate with ONE spouse initially engaged?
Originally Posted By: Mark1952


Most women are serial monogamists, but they can go back as testified to by the number of affairs we see around here with past boyfriends.


I agree with that part.
Originally Posted By: Mark1952


Most haven't really chosen to end the marriage prior to meeting their new love, simply decided to give up investing in it. The less they invest, the less they feel they are losing until they care not one bit what happens to the marriage.


And it's at that point they are having the affair. When they simply don't care anymore and have already emotionally divorced their husband. What you are describing is the stealth emotional divorce.

Since she's not been open and honest with her husband about how she feels, and that would be part of not investing in the marriage as you describe it, then he has no idea that anything is wrong. Usually until it's too late.

In my case, and from what I've read, when she is at this part, when you ask her how she's doing, she'll say fine, but really she's lying to you because she's already closed. The best way to avoid sharing her feelings is to simply tell you what she thinks you want to hear, that she is OK.

Originally Posted By: Mark1952


In a case where the WW has checked out the first milestone for the BH is to have her become unsure of what she wants to do.


That's a big if. I don't think most are unsure. Seems from the stories I've seen here, they pursue getting away with abandon, without looking back.

Sure, we have some who've looked back. But again, I think that's the minority, not the majority.
Originally Posted By: Mark1952


If she is conflicted about leaving, he's already ahead of where he began in most cases.


And if not, then he's getting further and further behind, regardless how excellent his plan A might be.
Originally Posted By: Mark1952


Those women who are just "fooling around" or not really intending to end the marriage (not an exit affair) are often persuaded by simple confrontation. Those who have fallen in love by accident are harder to win back but still doable with a clear plan of action.


Again, possible is only meaningful when compared to probably. Many things are possible. It's possible to win the lottery, but most folks don't win it.

Yet I can be 100% truthful and say, "You can win the lottery." But until the numbers are presented regarding the odds of winning, then one cannot make a determination of the effort to play is worth the cost.

Same goes for winning back an unfaithful wife. Given what I've seen, the odds are not worth the expended effort.

Those who win do win big, I don't deny that.

But everyone else loses, and in this case, it's more than just losing a buck, the BH loses big. Well, he may ultimately win as he's no longer married to an emotionally abusive wife that failed to value him or her own vows. But even that typically comes at a high financial cost, not to mention losing daily access to his children.

If his wife was a Stay at Home mom, unless she's doing something actually illegal, he's going to be a visiting dad in most courts. She has to be doing drugs, having an affair with a sex offender, or something of that sort to lose custody of her children in most jurisdictions.

Sure there are those who do, but they are typically the ones who try to kill their soon to be ex-husband, or are one of the above mentioned types.
Originally Posted By: Mark1952


Those who decided the marriage was over BEFORE even looking for a new man and now having found him are harder, but not impossible and I would guess that even some of those return home when the affair comes to a thunderous end.


Again, I never said impossible. I said NEAR impossible given that I believe that both this is the typical wife who walks away and has her affair, AND that once they've chosen that course of action, many feel compelled to stay the course.

Add in a family and friends who back the choice, such as having the OM in their home for holidays while their daughter is still married to the BH, and their network of Sex in the City, or today it would be Eat, Pray, Love fan friends who are cheering on their affair, and it's a lost cause.

Combine it with churches who won't get involved (like mine) and add to that the blame of the husband by the church of the wife's behavior, and again who is really supporting the marriage?

Oh, and add in that she believes not only is her husband the cause of all her unhappiness, but she also believes that she'll not lose her children, get child support, perhaps spousal support, and there are few things that push working on the marriage into the positive column for the typical WW looking at the +/- of her marriage.

It will appear to the typical WW that there are more +'s on the "divorce the bum" side than on the he's worth having around side.

She can have his money, and his kids, without actually having him, so why bother with the hassle of meeting his needs, when she can get her financial needs met through a court order and still have her lover.

Originally Posted By: Mark1952


Which is why Plan B follows Plan A with its waiting period to give the affair enough time to implode or become an anomaly or outlier.


That assumes the WW will even let the BH meet any needs. From what I've read, the typical behavior is that of my XW. Give the ILYBINILWY speech, ask him to move out or move out, and never look back.

Plan A does no good if the WW is not around to observe plan A. The plan B doesn't really matter at this point because she's already effectively plan B'ed her BH by closing him out.

It comes down to will she look back, and frankly, given my experience, I don't have the confidence to believe that most women who would choose to do this would look back.

I think it's a very rare women who will drop the atomic bomb of infidelity on her marriage and then look back.

They do exist, so successes are out there. But I still believe it's a very rare outcome.

I believe the percentage of men who've worked the plans here to a recovered marriage is smaller than the percentage of men who ended up with a recovered marriage.

It would be interesting to see Dr H break down the numbers. How many men have come to him with an unfaithful wife, and what percentage of those men today have a recovered marriage.