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#2431529 10/01/10 01:26 PM
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I feel SO stupid.

Long story short, for those who do not know my story: major marriage issues related to my H's old job, which he took against my wishes, issues related to after-hours parties/functions/events/howeveryouwanttoclassifythem that I was not invited to attend, and overnight travel. Coached with SH for six months, SH told my H to find a new job that had my support. H found one and changed jobs about four months ago.

NOW: H announced that he must attend an event this weekend and I am not invited to accompany him. I can go to it, since it is a public event, just not with him, I am not allowed into the arena where he will be enjoying food and wine with the invited special guests. AND next month he is required to be four states away for training for three days.

He told me, after the interview with this new place, that they encourage spouse participation at events and spouses are always invited, and that all training was local.

Lies, all of it.

He has now revealed that he never discussed with them during the interview phase that overnight travel or spouse-excluding events would be reasons why he would not be able to accept the job if offered. He asked a couple of questions about it and INFERRED that spouses were invited to events and training was all local.

He was wrong.

And now he's mad at ME. Threatening D again, because I don't like it. I asked him why he changed jobs in the first place if he was going to continue to demand that I tolerate the things I despised about the last job? What was the point?

He said he made a MISTAKE, he was mistaken about what he inferred from the interview, and now I must either tolerate it (by which he means support it--has said that!) or GTFO.

I asked if he would get with SH again. He said no, that all that talking with SH would accomplish is ME USING SH TO MANIPULATE HIM INTO DOING WHAT I WANT.

I'm livid and out of plans excepting B and D, neither of which I'm enthusiastic about doing. I'm more enthusiastic about B, but it's still going to be tough on the kids. I don't know that I can get him out without an order. Why am I not ready to call it quits???? The whole thing is ridiculous, going through a whole job change to address these specific issues and not seeing to it that they are actually being addressed, lying to your spouse to get support, it's shoplifting! He hijacked my support by lies.



Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
(Oscar Wilde)
CWMI #2431533 10/01/10 01:33 PM
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(((CWMI))) I'm so sorry about all this.

You are in a very difficult position. It really does come down to:

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now I must either tolerate it (by which he means support it--has said that!) or GTFO.

He KNEW these things were important to you and didn't work to ENSURE they were addressed, he assumed and told you they WERE to get you off of his back.

That's IB at it's best.

He can't shove that on to you. This wasn't a 'mistake' this was him trying to APPEASE you to get what he wants. Him > you + marriage.

It isn't manipulative to negotiate, especially when a previous POJA no longer has your enthusiasm. That's how it works. You stop being enthusiastic, you go back to negotiating. But it seems like he's interested in MB only as APPEASEMENT, not really to make his marriage better. He just wants you off his back and the freedom to make choices on his own.

B/D really seems the only route to go - unless you want to continue to live this way forever.


Me & DH: 28
Married 8/20/05
1DD, 9 mo.
Just Lookin' and Learnin'
HIYA!
Vibrissa #2431547 10/01/10 02:11 PM
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It wasn't even a POJA since vital information was withheld from me--no, vital information was misrepresented to me.

POJA requires RH.

His last message to me was: "You are making my choice so easy." This was after I told him that I would not remain on the phone with him if he continued to threaten me. So I hung up right after hearing, "I'm telling you right now, if you don't"

And he calls ME controlling. Self-delusion much?


Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
(Oscar Wilde)
CWMI #2431551 10/01/10 02:18 PM
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I agree, it wasn't POJA. I was saying more as a "even if it WAS a POJA, that doesn't mean an issue is settled for ever" type thing.

CWMI - what do you want?

I don't think it is possible to keep this marriage without drastic measures. You can change you all you want, but in the end you need help pulling this marriage out of the mud.

What do you want CWMI? What can you achieve? What are you willing to DO? What will you absolutely NOT do?


Me & DH: 28
Married 8/20/05
1DD, 9 mo.
Just Lookin' and Learnin'
HIYA!
Vibrissa #2431565 10/01/10 03:05 PM
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I want what I was told I would have.

I have shouts out to 'pressureizers' who have told me that they will talk with him, today.

I'll set up for plan B. Right now, I'm depending on him getting the little kids off to school, but if I can work with my 13yo to walk them to the bus, I can get them ready and get to my school on time, otherwise I can still drop my first period class without penalty, but that decision must be made by the 8th.

Conversely, if he files for D, I'm granting custody and will move out on my own. I'm pretty confident that the prospect of him being responsible for the kids 80% of the time will be a big deterrent to that. He said last night that he would get the kids on Sunday. I said, oh no, you'll get them everyday, then try to do your parties and out of town trips, have fun!


Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
(Oscar Wilde)
CWMI #2431566 10/01/10 03:13 PM
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You were not DUPED. You just PERCIEVE it that way. There is a huge difference between BEING DUPED and PERCIEVING THAT YOU ARE DUPED.

If this issue causes you to think about divorce, then your marriage has many many more important problems besides this one.

Bubbles4U #2431569 10/01/10 03:31 PM
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Quote
He told me, after the interview with this new place, that they encourage spouse participation at events and spouses are always invited, and that all training was local.

Quote
he never discussed with them during the interview phase that overnight travel or spouse-excluding events would be reasons why he would not be able to accept the job if offered. He asked a couple of questions about it and INFERRED

Sorry, but this is a lie. Plain and simple. He stated two things: spouses are encouraged to participate and training was local. He stated these two things as facts, when he knew they weren't. He had no authority to back up his assertions. He didn't bother to ask the interviewer specifically. Why? Because it wasn't that important to him. He did a little sniffing around, but didn't specifically ask.

Honesty would be "I believe from what other employees said that spouses are included at events, and there was no mention made of travel for training."

Instead he said "Spouses are welcome to events and there is no travel involved."

He couldn't know that, he couldn't state it certainly, yet he did - to get CWMIs approval.

The issue isn't that he has a party to go to and some travelling to do and you know that Bubbles. The issue is that he doesn't care about what is important to CWMI, he makes minor efforts to get her off his back and proceed to do what makes him happy. THIS isn't the issue that causes the thoughts of divorce, this is the proverbial straw breaking this marriage's back.

She readily admits that this marriage has many problems. I'm sure CWMI will admit to some blame, but by no means is her husband innocent.

Knowing your spouse's feelings and values, purposefully obfuscating and exaggerating the truth to get your way at the expense of those values and feelings is Independent Behavior. It is at the heart of these issues, and there is little CWMI can do to curb that but remove herself from it.


Me & DH: 28
Married 8/20/05
1DD, 9 mo.
Just Lookin' and Learnin'
HIYA!
Vibrissa #2431577 10/01/10 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Vibrissa
Knowing your spouse's feelings and values, purposefully obfuscating and exaggerating the truth to get your way at the expense of those values and feelings is Independent Behavior. It is at the heart of these issues, and there is little CWMI can do to curb that but remove herself from it.

This is the part that makes me want to scream. And IB is the entire reason why I would insist he take custody of our children if he filed. He wants to do what he wants to do when he wants to do it without regard for anyone else, and he lost that privilege when he created a family.

I'm madder still because things have been so awesome, everything I've ever wanted from my marriage, and then selfish entitlement reared its ugly head, again. I want what I had LAST WEEK. Last month. Yesterday morning.


Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
(Oscar Wilde)
CWMI #2431580 10/01/10 04:22 PM
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c'mon - your own children mean so little to you that you'd be willing to give up custody of them just to punish your husband?

SERIOUSLY?

they must feel really cherished.

ivy45 #2431585 10/01/10 04:48 PM
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No, he's willing to give up his whole family to go to a party, my intent is to show him that he cannot do that. He has responsibilities beyond himself. Enforceable responsibilities, through court.

I already said it's a deterrent tactic from his threatened abandonment. Are you suggesting that I support his abandonment of his children ("I'll take them on Sundays")??? Or say, that's okay, you go play, I've got this? As a FIRST move?

Ridonkulous! I will employ the cards I hold, thank you. I've got a H who thinks divorce means freedom, but forgets that he also has children who deserve more than a check in the mail. My kids are not checks. My kids are big strong reasons to have two parents, together, in a mutually supportive marriage. I'll fight for that, with everything I have. That's why Plan B includes ME having the kids daily, and plan D (if filed by him) includes HIM taking them. It's a huge responsibility, and a deterrent to someone who thinks they can just walk away.


Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
(Oscar Wilde)
ivy45 #2431589 10/01/10 05:09 PM
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well, of course, when you divorce, you should both share responsibility for your children's care and financial support, and I'd think that losing half your time with your children would be pretty hard for you to take (I'm assuming). Saying you want to lose all of it just to show him he can't get away with it... Wow... Even as a scare tactic, just the fact that you're happy to gamble with your children. Wow.

ivy45 #2431596 10/01/10 06:17 PM
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If my H wants to divorce me on the sole basis of being happier doing what he wants when he wants without responsibility to others, I think he SHOULD have to bear the majority burden of what he is attempting to walk away from.

Why should I have to?

I'm trying to save this family.

Not help him destroy it.


Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
(Oscar Wilde)
CWMI #2431597 10/01/10 06:21 PM
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ivy, I'm not some gal who wants out. My END GOAL is an intact family with my H and I married. Our children, while not pawns, remain leverage.


Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
(Oscar Wilde)
ivy45 #2431598 10/01/10 06:23 PM
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This is all speculation on my part. But if he thinks divorce means freedom, then he is not enjoying being married. This means that needs are not being met and lovebusting is going on. Basically he is not happy with his spouse if he thinks D means freedom.

More speculation...
Using MB as appeasement was mentioned. This would seem to implty that he feels badgered or worn down by constant demands or having to live in what he considers unrealistic expectations of a spouse but is afraid to say something because of how CWMI will react.


He was desperate to find a different job because the job conflict was a constant source of fighting. So he found one, asked a few questions that made it seem like everything was 100% spouse friendly and travel wasn�t an issue, and just ran with it at face value. Or they indicated that a little travel would happen and occasionally a black tie happening would pop up that was employees only. He figured that he could at least get some appeasement for the time being and would put up with her being mad later. It�s like the whole �better to ask for forgiveness than permission.�
Again, this is all just a guess.
CWMI, I�d say that he�s not exactly happy in the marriage either but perhaps he�s a conflict avoider. So now he goes for the gusto and just puts up a wall.

You said he did mention feeling manipulated by SH into getting what you want. Maybe he really does feel that way. Maybe he feels like he has to bend to your desires and forego what he wants as in the saying �if mom aint happy, aint no one happy�. Maybe you should ask him why he feels manipulated by MB.

Whether any or all of this is ridiculous or not, he isn�t honest with his feelings for a reason. Maybe this is worth investigating.


Husband (me) 39
Wife 36
Daughter 21
Daughter 19
Son 14
Daughter 10
Son 8 (autistic)

kilted_thrower #2431605 10/01/10 07:04 PM
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cwmi, I know we don't aways see eye to eye, but I do want to send you some (((hugs))) anyway, I know this has got to be tough right now.

Do you have friends family who can be strong for you right now?

You're kids may well feel unstable right now, too, do you have some routines they enjoy that you can maintain?


Me 40, OD 18 and YD 13
Married 15 years, Divorced 10/2010
ivy45 #2431606 10/01/10 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by ivy45
c'mon - your own children mean so little to you that you'd be willing to give up custody of them just to punish your husband?

SERIOUSLY?

they must feel really cherished.

hmmm, that's unfair

btw, you're indirectly implying that her husband doesn't "cherish" his children because he is the one threatening D and is comfortable seeing his offspring on Sundays

CWMI just wanted his honesty about his job. She wants her husband to have marriage-family friendly employment. He misled her to believe that's what his new employer is.

She's the one looking out for her family. He'd rather be dishonest.
When she M her husband and had children with him, I'm sure she assumed he would make their M and family higher priority. He doesn't.

He'd rather be single than M. Fine for him. That doesn't mean that he quits being a father. He can be a single father and take responsibility for his actions of dissolving his M.
Letting him have custody of the kids isn't a lack of cherishing.

I know that sounds harsh, but I'm frustrated that moms are expected to go for full custody and that they are viewed as less loving if they don't. That assumption really hinders women economically and more important, emotionally. A mom isn't necessarily less loving because she doesn't have full custody.

If I were to D my H, you'd bet he'd get custody. I love my kids very much, but love doesn't pay the bills or catch up my retirement savings. The parent who is the primary caregiver usually faces economic disadvantages by doing so. Kids take time and that translates into decreased earning potential whether it's dad or mom who cares for the kids.

If CWMI's H chooses D, he won't be working his job for long. Unless he makes real good $$$, it won't be cost effective to pay someone to cook, clean and babysit his children for days on end. kwim?

He maybe unhappy in his M, but gosh, he seems disconnected as what it takes as a single dad. He should be willing to work on his M, not be willing to throw his family away.


Live, love, and laugh because the best is yet to come!
kilted_thrower #2431609 10/01/10 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by kilted_thrower
This is all speculation on my part. But if he thinks divorce means freedom, then he is not enjoying being married. This means that needs are not being met and lovebusting is going on. Basically he is not happy with his spouse if he thinks D means freedom.

More speculation...
Using MB as appeasement was mentioned. This would seem to implty that he feels badgered or worn down by constant demands or having to live in what he considers unrealistic expectations of a spouse but is afraid to say something because of how CWMI will react.


He was desperate to find a different job because the job conflict was a constant source of fighting. So he found one, asked a few questions that made it seem like everything was 100% spouse friendly and travel wasn�t an issue, and just ran with it at face value. Or they indicated that a little travel would happen and occasionally a black tie happening would pop up that was employees only. He figured that he could at least get some appeasement for the time being and would put up with her being mad later. It�s like the whole �better to ask for forgiveness than permission.�
Again, this is all just a guess.
CWMI, I�d say that he�s not exactly happy in the marriage either but perhaps he�s a conflict avoider. So now he goes for the gusto and just puts up a wall.

You said he did mention feeling manipulated by SH into getting what you want. Maybe he really does feel that way. Maybe he feels like he has to bend to your desires and forego what he wants as in the saying �if mom aint happy, aint no one happy�. Maybe you should ask him why he feels manipulated by MB.

Whether any or all of this is ridiculous or not, he isn�t honest with his feelings for a reason. Maybe this is worth investigating.

Really? For a lot of men (and women, for that matter) D IS freedom. It is freedom by definition. Some people would prefer never having to negotiate or answer to anyone than be happily married. Furthermore, many people regret getting divorced when they realize that being free and single isn't all it's cracked up to be and they wish they hadn't gotten divorced. But they def. had much more "freedom". That isn't to say that CWMI's H doesn't feel worn down or badgered. He probably does. He doesn't want to put up with it anymore. CWMI had two options: leave or try to get her H to put their marriage first. He doesn't want to, so any attempt on her part is badgering. Or maybe she resorts to what he perceives as LBs to get what she wants. Since he wasn't O & H that really absolves her of a lot of guilt in my opinion...

If you are suggesting the CWMI love busted in reaction to finding out that her H lied about something that is at the core of their marriage troubles and did not put their marriage first, I think she might agree. But that doesn't change the fact that even after 6 months of MB counseling he still isn't putting his marriage first. CWMI doesn't have to be perfect in order for her husband to put the marriage first. He feels prodded...I get the vibe that he always feels prodded and is okay going along with whatever. He didn't want to rock the boat during the job interview process and he doesn't want to rock the boat with his employer. I bet he doesn't want to rock the boat with CWMI, either, but she isn't giving him a choice. Its up to her what she is willing to put up with.

KT, your impressions are probably somewhat accurate other than the freedom thing...and you probably know that situation better than I do...so...what do you suggest she do? Your post seemed like you were just stating that this was probably her fault...which doesn't seem helpful or maybe what you intended?

CWMI: I am so sorry you are going through this. Another thing: my H is in a "VIP" event-heavy industry. There has never, ever, ever been a situation where a spouse was excluded. It does not happen. Now, it's not always obvious or automatic, my H occasionally has to say, "hey, I need a ticket/access for my wife" it has always been granted. Even when the other guys he works with were sure it wasn't possible, even when the lower level people/assistants balked. I bet it is a "duh" observation that your husband wouldn't "not take no for an answer" and make sure you could get into wherever he could go. Of course, his industry may be different...but I seriously doubt it. I bet if he was the type to go to bat for you and he told you you couldn't come it wouldn't sting as much. Well, it actually would, because he should have cleared that in his interview before he took the job...but he doesn't fight for you or your marriage it doesn't seem. Ugh. I am so sorry. Either way you sound like you are at the end of your rope. I don't blame you. I understand that nothing is as bad as an affair, but having gone through something similar a few years ago(H quitting a job that made marriage and family impossible only to change his mind a year later AFTER I got pregnant) I understand the depth of the betrayal.

RareMamaJewel #2431610 10/01/10 07:25 PM
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Mama, you really are a rare jewel.

RareMamaJewel #2431611 10/01/10 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by RareMamaJewel
Originally Posted by ivy45
c'mon - your own children mean so little to you that you'd be willing to give up custody of them just to punish your husband?

SERIOUSLY?

they must feel really cherished.

hmmm, that's unfair

btw, you're indirectly implying that her husband doesn't "cherish" his children because he is the one threatening D and is comfortable seeing his offspring on Sundays

CWMI just wanted his honesty about his job. She wants her husband to have marriage-family friendly employment. He misled her to believe that's what his new employer is.

She's the one looking out for her family. He'd rather be dishonest.
When she M her husband and had children with him, I'm sure she assumed he would make their M and family higher priority. He doesn't.

He'd rather be single than M. Fine for him. That doesn't mean that he quits being a father. He can be a single father and take responsibility for his actions of dissolving his M.
Letting him have custody of the kids isn't a lack of cherishing.

I know that sounds harsh, but I'm frustrated that moms are expected to go for full custody and that they are viewed as less loving if they don't. That assumption really hinders women economically and more important, emotionally. A mom isn't necessarily less loving because she doesn't have full custody.

If I were to D my H, you'd bet he'd get custody. I love my kids very much, but love doesn't pay the bills or catch up my retirement savings. The parent who is the primary caregiver usually faces economic disadvantages by doing so. Kids take time and that translates into decreased earning potential whether it's dad or mom who cares for the kids.

If CWMI's H chooses D, he won't be working his job for long. Unless he makes real good $$$, it won't be cost effective to pay someone to cook, clean and babysit his children for days on end. kwim?

He maybe unhappy in his M, but gosh, he seems disconnected as what it takes as a single dad. He should be willing to work on his M, not be willing to throw his family away.

So well said.

wannatry #2431622 10/01/10 09:21 PM
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{{{{{{{{CWMI}}}}}}}}

Finding out your spouse has been deceiving you is always painful. I'm saying a prayer for you!





Recovery began 10/07;

Meeting my wife's EN's is my "thank you" that refuses to be silenced.
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