Do you mean the Mississippi River? The Gulf is quite a ways from downtown New Orleans. We walked along the riverside park and watched the boats, *almost* got on the ferry to Algiers but the kids weren't as excited about that as I.

I was shocked at the pornographic/vulgar displays, not only on Bourbon, but in the little convenience stores, too. We went in one to buy sodas and they had a big display of "F'ing Hot Sauce" and "Generic Condoms for Cheap F'ers" (all spelled out, mind you), and that was way down at Canal and Tchapitoulus (sp? I kept calling it Chipotle, lol). What a strange town. Vegas never appeared so blatantly crude to me. Vegas is lovely and respectful in comparison!

Vegas is lovely and respectful?

Must have changed since the last time I was there. Used to be you could walk down the street and see pamphlets full of naked women in positions that exposed things only an OB/GYN ought to see.

When my husband started having his business intrude on our home time I went through a lot of the actions you describe CWMI, and had a certain amount of what I figured was righteous indignation. DH just called it anger.

Anyway, I finally realized that half of what I was angry about was the way my husband was presenting these events. He knew I would be unhappy about him leaving, and this made him defensive about the way he would present things. He'd say "yeah, I have to leave in 2 days to go to [some remote site]. No I don't know how long I'll be gone, and they don't have cell phone service out there." End of story.

This left me incredibly frustrated and had me trying to reshuffle a weeks worth of plans to accomodate his ever, changing schedule. Drove me insane.

Finally I asked him to consider things from my point of view, which he said he did. And I asked him to present situations like this gently, and to let me know that he wished he didn't have to go, etc.

So then his rewording of the situations would be "you know that situation out in [ remote place x ], well I've gotta go sort it out, and it means that I'll probably miss Jr's concert (or whatever). I hate this part of my job, I'm probably gonna for gone for 4 days or so I can call you from the hotel each evening when I get back from the mine site."

That was much better, and made me feel appreciated even though I still was left as the single parent for a week or more sometimes.

I'm not trying to figure out how to just deal with it.

I am 100% not interested in a traveling man. I KNOW this. I have known this since before I met my H. And I told him when we got serious.

The only adjustment, make-me-feel-better thing that I see happening is either he doesn't travel, or I find a new man.

In comparison, imho.

So are you saying that the only type of marriage that you will tolerate is 0% travel?

What I mean is, are there acceptable circumstances where you would agree that you are willing to accept travel? If there are none, then I think you need to tell him this, and not just complain when it happens. It needs to be this is a deal-breaker, nope, I won't put up with it. Never, ever, or we do plan D.

Evidently from your posts, there is no way to poja this. And I hear you on that. Perhaps husband needs to as well. And perhaps you need to stick by your guns if this is the case. What I see is you laying down the law (figuratively speaking), husband going along with it in theory, his job getting in the way of this, him lying to hide it, finally coming out with it when he has no choice, you chewing him out for it, and then you both getting on with life.

Can you live this pattern for the rest of your marriage? I understand that Dr. Harley agrees with you that there should be no separated over-night travel. But does your husband?

It does appear the problem here is that there is no "poja"

For "poja" there nneeds to be enthusiastic agreement.

To say the "husband is going along with it in theory" is somewhat overstating it. He clearly says he feels manipulated. Certainly not enthusiastic. More like goiing along with it under duress.

For a good working "poja" there needs to be consideration of the other spouse, from both sides. It appears to be similar in some ways to John Nash's (beautiful mind) theory on negotiation.

Each person needs to consider the other so that a win win situation developes. If there is no win win, then there is unlikely to be any enthusiastic agreement.

Some of the best results from "poja" come from when a dominant partner realises that to "poja" they need to consider the other person. This can have a transforming effect.

Due consideration is probably the fundametal basis for a good marriage.

And again, we're back to the whole situation where he changed jobs to one that he said had ZERO travel. SH TOLD him to do that. Not poja it, DO IT.

My H said that he has no choice. EVERY job has mandatory travel. That's ridiculous.

How (or why?) would I possibly poja something that I know will result in me hating my H?

cwmi, that makes sense, the Missisippi River, then. We've had similar experiences in Las Vegas, but you're right, the scale was entirely different. And I didn't do too good a job of being non-judgmental about it, either. I was all like, how could the put that stuff here?! But I was on their turf, they don't bring their stuff in my neighborhood, so why was I bringing my kids into theirs? Down here, you can spend days in the Keys or South Beach with the kids, and not run into anything embarrassing if you get the kids back to the hotel by bedtime. So it was something new to learn, that some places don't have kid-friendly daytimes.

It certainly didn't fit in with the 'family-friendly' atmosphere that the new boss touted they prided themselves in. I read that in an email, so I know he said it. "Oh yes, we're very family-centered and are quite proud of our morals! So we're sending you to one of the seediest cities on earth! Enjoy!"

I know you mentioned it before. But how much/how often is his new job wanting him to travel?

I know that Dr. Harley says that we are the source of our spouses happiness but do you not think "hating him" is kind of extreme?

CWMI-
I guess, what I don't get in all of this, is why your husband isn't respecting/following Steve's advice. Counseling with SH takes lots of resources, in terms of time and money. Why spend those resources for something that won't be used?

Has SH told your husband he can't cherry pick the MB program? That your husband can't negotiate which parts of SH's advice he's going to follow and which he won't.

Have you guys considered having a brush up session with SH?

To me, this gives me some hope that your husband was told something different than what is now practiced when he was hired.

Still, I think he either has to tell them he will do no travel, or you have to cut him loose. Your feelings are unbending on this point.

It sounds like a dealbreaker to me. It wouldn't be for me, but I'm not you and you are the one who matters.

I have no idea. Does it matter? Are you suggesting I tolerate occasional deal-breakers?

Hating probably is extreme, but I've been in a couple of situations with traveling guys before H. One of them I was essentially using, did not like him much but liked very much that I was able to live in his house for free and he was never there. (hey, I was young...)

The other I loved very much and planned to marry until he took a travel job and it was about six weeks into it that I said, nope, not for me, and broke it off with him.

So yeah, the only way I see me ever being okay with a relationship with a dude who travels is if I don't like him and he means nothing to me. Why would I want that?

Again, I don't know why he's not following the advice. I can speculate, based on some things he said. He felt manipulated by Steve to do what I want, and the advice did not take into consideration Real World Situations. My H does not believe that people have choices. You do what The Man tells you to do (the man who signs your paycheck, not your guru or g-forbid your spouse).

I asked H if he would join me in getting w/SH again, that's when I found out he felt totally manipulated by the process. He cannot believe that SH agreed with me about H answering his phone when I call. SH told him that business people (at least moral business people, those who believe that marriage is precious and to be protected) RESPECT a person who excuses themself to take a spouse's call. H does not believe that at all. I even asked H about two scenarios: one where a client's phone rang and they looked and said, "Meh, it's my wife," and shut it off, and a client whose phone rang, they said, "It's my wife. Excuse me one minute," and which one he would have more respect for, which one he would come away thinking was the trustworthy person, and he said the one who excused themself to take the call. ??? I have no idea. I really think my H does not believe social rules apply to him.

He does answer his phone now, mostly, and if he doesn't, he texts me right away to tell me why.

Nah, I'm not suggesting giving into deal breakers. I was attempting to think there could possibly be a positive. Say hehe has to travel for one weekend once a month, you two could use it as a chance to get away and see a new city. Has your husband asked if the travel is mandatory?

I highly doubt it. At his last two jobs it actually wasn't...I knew the first job didn't require it, and he lied about the second, and now this one. Plus, we have four young children...a monthly weekend away doesn't work for our family, and this would all be mid-week anyway. Travel does not work for anyone in our family except my H, and only if he does not care to take responsibility for the rest of us.

Day before yesterday I told him that I felt like we needed to take the ENQ and LBQ again. He asked me what he was doing or not doing that made me say that. I was like, "Really? This whole situation with the new job and the way you acted in N.O. and you don't know why?" I went on to tell him that dishonesty, coldness and anger were still problems, I did not feel cared for or considered, but mainly I wanted to know what I was doing wrong or not doing right so that I can determine whether this is a problem that can be solved by me, or if it's simply his personality.

So now he's writing love notes on the mirror and washing my car and being really sweet, but I'm feeling like it's not what I need. I need THIS problem to go away, the overnight travel.

At none of his jobs has it been frequent. But when you're a 0 on the scale, 1 is too many.

Hi cwmi,

I guess I am emphasizing that this is a deal breaker, because I don't see any way for you guys to come up with a win-win scenario unless your husband gives up the travel entirely, you will not be happy.

I am not blaming you or faulting you for your feelings on this point. Only stating the obvious.

If you won't budge, and he won't budge, and there is no other way he can make you happy (or vice versa), then you should go to plan B (in my opinion).

He can strive to fill your lovebank in every other single way, but if this a deal breaker, then he has to know that. He has no chance to make you happy if the hole in your lovebucket is gaping as a result of travel.

If it's a dealbreaker, then it's a dealbreaker. You deserve to be with someone who gives you what you need, and he deserves to be with someone who gives him what he needs.

That's my opinion.

I agree with Telly. **** or get off the pot time, methinks.

He really has no reason to take you seriously at this point. You're still there and that's all that matter, it seems, in terms of what your "real" boundaries are.

Divorce it is then! Thanks, marriagebuilders.