CWMI

I am wondering if you feel it is better if your husband hates you for maintaining a fixed position and forcing him to make further changes?

There are always solutions to problems.

UA is very beneficial for a marriage. This can be difficult to achieve with children always around. A perfect solution to this can be for a couple to get away by themselves for a few days every 3 or 4 months. It is even better if an employer helps pay for this.

Sometimes we think we can not leave the children due to circumstance. In reality this would just make people feel trapped and so appropriate changes need to be made to accommodate this.

Travelling with your husband seems the ideal situation to promote a healthy family. The problem now appears to be that your work situation is too inflexible to allow for this UA time away.

The question now is, are you prepared to change your job, to find something else more family friendly? Is family important enough to you, that you are prepared to make the necessary changes?

I'm not sure what other response is possible.

This is a non- POJA issue for you.

SH has supported you in that.

Your H does not agree with SH. No one can force him to accept anyone's counsel.

Unless your husband changes his mind, you are stuck, unless you would be willing to POJA, which you are not.

The thing speaks for itself. Nothing anyone tells you can change that, and very little that anyone tries to tell you gets through if it deviates in the slightest degree from your own desires.

Unless one or both of you changes your position, your future is clear. You can either make him face more severe consequences, or you can accept your lot in life.

I don't think the MB program would say you have to go directly to divorce. You could go to Plan B. Break off direct contact with him. Give him a taste of what life would be like without you. And see if that motivates him to seek a job where there really is NO travel at all.

I'm in school, not working a regular job, and my schedule is flexible and currently set to avoid any child care. Child care by others, not me.

My H, sometimes, appears to hate me and the kids for simply existing, because we make messes and require attention. I'm not forcing anyone to make any changes, only providing information to assist in decision making. I don't throw down ultimatums, I say, I don't like this and here is why and this is what the result will be if it continues.

Just curious, but what would you do if your H said that he didn't want you to go to school anymore (ever again)? He didn't like you being away from the house and the kids and he wanted you to be a SAHM, and if you continued going to school anyway, he would leave (Plan B, Plan D, whatever) since this was a deal breaker to him? No POJA. No trying to find a solution that might work for both of you. Just stop going to school or it's over. How would you feel?

We POJAd me going to school, but he has said that, and I said I would withdraw immediately if he was serious. He was not.

He never POJAd taking a job with travel.

What's your point?

Are you trying to say that I, too, would put my personal desires over the needs of my family?

Have you MET me?

As I understand it, personal needs must be met in order to have a successful marriage. Family is secondary.

What you have just described sounds like sacrifice.

I wasn't SAYING that. I was WONDERING. That's why I asked.

How can your H POJA taking a job that involves traveling when you've already made it perfectly clear that you will not tolerate any travel whatsoever? There doesn't seem to be much room for POJA there.

I'm sacrificing? Oh nononono...I'm doing exactly what I find personally fulfilling in a way that does not interfere with my first focus: serving my family.

I *could* put school first and take classes whenever I want: nights, weekends...I take them when my kids are in school.

I *could* take advantage of a study abroad program over the summer. I *could* take internships and work on my days off from school instead of using that time to take care of my household.

I *could* be all memememe all the freaking time, but I'm not, and won't.

What did you expect me to say? If you expected anything other than what I said, I'd like to know why.

Cwmi,

Are you willing to negotiate with your husband? Is there room for any work-related travel in your life together?

I'm hearing "no" as your answer. Again, this wouldn't be my answer, but I'm not judging you. Just describing what I hear you saying over and over again.

Is your husband willing to negotiate a "no travel" career/position? It doesn't sound like he is willing to do that.

Here are your options (as I see it), given your unwavering feelings on the subject:

1) Counsel again with Dr. Harley and see if he has any new suggestions for you.

2) Go to plan B (which is actually what I suggested--I did not suggest divorce).

3) Find some big carrot to dangle for your husband (so far you haven't been able to find one).

4) Punish your husband in some way when he travels in the hopes that you can deter him (this hasn't worked so far).

It seems to me that options 1 and 2 are your best bet as neither of the other choices have worked. Failing to meet with Dr. Harley, that leaves you with #2.

Beyond that, I don't know what you want us to do/suggest for you?

You are unwilling to change your position. You have a zero-tolerance policy for work related travel (unless I'm missing something). Even you going along doesn't seem to be workable or seem to improve the situation any.

Your husband seems unwilling to change his position.

Just what kind of advice are you looking for?


Edited to add:

You are obviously not looking for us to give you advice on how to tolerate/accept any situation where there is work travel in your life together. You have made that clear.

Are you looking for advice on how to persuade your husband on how important this is to you? If Dr. H couldn't do it in a meaningful/lasting way, I doubt we could. The only thing I can suggest is Plan B.

If this situation is so intolerable that nothing can make you happy with him, then you should go to plan B. It is rare, but people do plan B for situations like this.

Otherwise, you will obviously just go along and continue to make each other miserable, as you cannot accept his lifestyle, and he cannot accept yours.

Are you planning to talk with Dr. Harley even if he isn't on board?

I'm rambling, Tel. Venting. I'm highly po'd at being duped here. I don't know if I'm madder at him, or me.

I BELIEVED him.

That makes me feel stupid.

And I'm not stupid, but I also don't make decisions based on feelings. You know this. Logically, does it make sense for me to blow up my family because I don't like the way I feel, however temporary or long-term it may be? I have a long-term temporary feeling of not being okay with this. lol. You get that, right?

We were talking about me taking a job...I brought it up after the "every job requires travel" speech (btw, he tried to tell me the most ridiculous thing...that his boss' wife trains people for a big fast-food chain and they require that teenagers fly out for training, I flagged BS, how ridiculous, no 16yr old Mickey D new hire travels for training! omg...however stupid I feel, he must think I'm waaaay stupider!)

--anyway, I asked him, "So, you think the only jobs I can get after graduating are going to require travel?"

He said, yep!

I said, so you're cool with that?

He said, I'll have to be!

I said, so you'll be here to get the kids off the bus, cook their dinner, put them to bed, pack their lunch, get them back on the bus, sign all the school papers, wash their clothes and everything while I'm gone?

He said, Wait a minute, I didn't say all that...

LOL.

I do think a call to Steve is in order. H was ready to pay for his brother and W to talk to him. I'll bring that up if he flinches.

I think I was wondering if there is something specific about your H's line of work that is very important and meaningful to him that he doesn't want to give up, even if it does require some travel. I agree that your M should come first, but I think most people need something else in their lives to feel fulfilled. For many men, this is their career. And if your career provides your H with a sense of fulfillment, and he must travel to have this career, then he may fear that he will have to give up something that is very important to him.

I'm not saying I think travel is a good idea in a M. And I certainly don't agree that travel is required for all jobs. My H has never traveled for work in any of his jobs. I've never traveled for work in any of my jobs.

But I do think you need to find out why this particular line of work is important to your H and what needs it fulfills for him. Some jobs do require travel. I don't know what your H does for a living, but pilot comes to mind. If it was someone's lifelong dream to become a pilot, I would think it would be very difficult to fulfill this dream without traveling. And, if someone had wanted to be a pilot since they were a child, having to give up that dream might be very difficult and create a huge sense of sacrifice.

I have wanted to be a writer since I was 5 (literally, that's when I wrote my first story and knew that's what I wanted to do). If my H decided that he wasn't okay with my writing (for whatever reason) and he wanted me to give that up, I would have a really hard time with that. But my H would never do that, because he knows how much my writing means to me.

He sells cars. I would never have married a pilot. There is a HUGE difference between wanting your spouse to give up something like writing vs something like flying. Read up on Lydia Sigourney. People only get peeved when you step on them; if you get mad just for gettin mad, you're an idiot. If you can't follow dreams without killing the family you created, you're an idiot. jmho.

I definitely think you need to find a balance. If your dreams are more important than a family, then don't have one (I know plenty of writers who chose this route). I also know plenty of writers (myself included) who believe that their families enrich their lives, and therefore, their writing.

I never knew that car salesmen have to travel frequently. I've known quite a few, and travel didn't seem to be a huge part of the job. Has your H always traveled for work, or is this a more recent development?

I probably wouldn't have married a pilot either. But if I did, I would have done so knowing that he wouldn't be around all the time and knowing that I would have to accept this.

I would not have fallen in love with someone who traveled. I don't think it would be possible. It is not in me to be left alone. I can BE alone, I can not be LEFT alone. Does that make sense to anyone but me?

I don't think it makes sense to my H. "You/re a big strong girl, you can be alone!" Of flipping course I can, but I chose not to, and you promised me that you wouldn't leave me alone. I can be alone, or not alone, but I cannot do both. It's one or the other.

What do you want to change about yourself? How can we help you?

Pardon, I am a O.T. quarterback, but I believe a call to Dr. H may be in your best intrest.

Have you considered the root of this issue just may be control?

If this is true, job/travel will be only one of dozens of arguments you may have.

You will never POJA if the root of the issue is who is in charge.

The 40's may be a ripe age for changing marriage dynamics,
(this does not meant that two educated people can not learn the pitfalls and rewards of coping with this.)

Does not mean the MB can not help you, I think MB opened my thinking into learning about relationship dynamics.

CWMI, have you guys considered getting into the online program where you could ask Dr. Harley (not Steve) questions directly and have him involved in supervising and motivating both of you?