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Originally Posted by sunnydaze53
Stop that dance. Passive aggressive BS! Tell her how you feel nicely.

Yes, you are correct. That is what I should do.

Now how do I tell her "nicely"? Tell her I really appreciate the offer, but I am internally conflicted about whether I want to have sex with her? Part of me wants to. But part of me feels it is selling out my integrity for a "cheap thrill". Hope that she asks what she could do to help me be whole-heartedly enthusiastic about having sex with her? When I expect that she will throw up her hands and say "I can't win" and storm out of the room.


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Actually, maybe start with that....tell her you are conflicted and concerned about telling her because you are afraid of her response and don't want to hurt her.

Tell her how awesome it feels that she is making time for you and yet how difficult it is to feel that without gearing up for disappointment immediately afterward.

Maybe you can suggest a nice breakfast and a backrub or something instead? My assumption is this will be a weekly thing right? Just tell her you love her and appreciate the thought but you are a bit "gun shy" and would rather just cuddle and spend enjoyable time together.

I'm sorry I jumped on you. You are actually a lot like me. The thing is, my DH started doing nice things and I was completely doubtful...so far he has kept doing them. Sure he falters and I have to resist going back to AH HA! I knew you didn't mean it!

I am trying to enjoy the moment and forget expectations and above all else make decisions from the best part of me, not passive aggressive revenge.

Good luck.

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She could not be more clear or consistent in her position that my role is to protect her and keep her safe from sex.

Honestly, Hold, I think you're rewriting this to suit your own insecurities. If anything, I would say she's talking about other men, not you. Clarification might be in order, as I could be wrong, but it just seems off to me, the way you're perceiving this. She could also be talking about drunk sex with any man.

And if she proves you right, I would tell her you didn't sign up for that job - that you deserve normalcy in your marriage. That includes a normal friendship and normal sex life with your wife.

Hold...I've seen this before - on another board, where an adult SA survivor was shocked and disappointed when her husband stopped coddling due to the SA like 20 years previous, way before he came along. She was comparing her husband to a previous relationship where the boyfriend basically took on the personae of a white knight or something in her mind. He wanted to save her from her childhood abuse and make her life all right again. She was pining for that sort of special treatment.

I said 'Maybe your husband is giving you the gift of normalcy. Maybe he just wants to allow you the same sort of life as any other woman. Maybe he doesn't see you as just a SA survivor. Maybe he doesn't define you in a primary sense as this VICTIM. Maybe he sees you as a full-blooded, intelligent woman and knows there is a a lot more to you than your past.'

Maybe you could tell your wife these things too, if they're true, and tell her that it's time she allowed herself permission to enjoy sex and whatever else she has been denying herself (providing they don't cross the line.)

I think when a SA survivor reaches adulthood, those around them who know of the abuse can offer special treatment, special allowances, whatever, but doing so may actually perpetuate the abuse and keep it going, keep it harming. It stifles that survivor from reaching their potential in other areas of their life. I think when we focus too strongly on that unfortunate past, we can allow it to define that person and not just to them, but to others too.

Lots of mature couples schedule sex and have good marriages, Hold, but you can bond in other ways on Tuesdays too. Don't revamp your work schedule. Keep yourself free. Take her out for breakfast instead for a while and just see how it goes if you feel the need.




Last edited by Soolee; 12/08/10 12:31 PM.

Sooly

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"The will of God will never take you where the Grace of God will not protect you."

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Soolee #2450116 12/08/10 04:25 PM
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Of course I will be available Tuesday. I am posting here to purge myself of the spiteful thoughts so I can be open to her advances if she follows through on her "threat" to be available on Tuesday.


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lol.


Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
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Hold, I'm familiar with your background, I've been reading your thread for a long time. What I meant, is there some outside incident recently that is making her cranky and belligerent.

Soolee #2450316 12/09/10 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Soolee
Clarification might be in order, as I could be wrong, but it just seems off to me, the way you're perceiving this. She could also be talking about drunk sex with any man.

Extremely unlikely. Her point was clear. My memory as to the wording is what is unclear. What I said about her going back to being a party girl had the clear implication that I wanted to get her drunk or high so she would be more inclined to have sex with me. I am not trying to paper over my behavior. That was in fact what I was thinking. She took offense to it. My bad.

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And if she proves you right, I would tell her you didn't sign up for that job - that you deserve normalcy in your marriage. That includes a normal friendship and normal sex life with your wife.

I have told her that during marriage counselling. Her response was basically "then find another wife". Or to be fair, she responded that what we have is normal and that I am messed up to expect that middle aged people with kids continue to have sex. Remember, she does not admit that her past has any impact on her current behavior. She claims she has gotten past it (despite never telling anyone until decades later and never seeking any counselling to deal with it) and it is not relevant to our marriage.

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Hold...I've seen this before - on another board, where an adult SA survivor was shocked and disappointed when her husband stopped coddling due to the SA like 20 years previous, way before he came along. She was comparing her husband to a previous relationship where the boyfriend basically took on the personae of a white knight or something in her mind. He wanted to save her from her childhood abuse and make her life all right again. She was pining for that sort of special treatment.

I am not trying to save her or make it all right. In fact, quite the opposite. I have told her if she wants someone who would back off and remove any pressure for sex, she needs to find someone else because I am not that guy.

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I think when a SA survivor reaches adulthood, those around them who know of the abuse can offer special treatment, special allowances, whatever, but doing so may actually perpetuate the abuse and keep it going, keep it harming. It stifles that survivor from reaching their potential in other areas of their life. I think when we focus too strongly on that unfortunate past, we can allow it to define that person and not just to them, but to others too.

I can see that mechanism being relevant to other cases. In her case, she never told anyone (her parents still do not know) so there isn't anyone to coddle her.

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Lots of mature couples schedule sex and have good marriages, Hold, but you can bond in other ways on Tuesdays too. Don't revamp your work schedule. Keep yourself free. Take her out for breakfast instead for a while and just see how it goes if you feel the need.

I don't know what I want. I don't know what I feel. That aspect of the problem is inside me. Breakfast with my wife is not going to resolve that. Neither is sex. I need to decide whether I want this marriage to heal. Right now I am holding her at arms length and not allowing her into my heart. There is no hope for a return to romantic love until I choose to let down the barriers. I am getting more payoff from denying her and pushing her away than I get from interacting with her. That has to change before we can repair the damage. And it has to change inside me.


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Quote from Hold.

"And as for why I come here, after telling myself for 15 years (not without justification) that my marriage stinks, I need to keep reminding myself that within the past few months it has gotten better. So that my internal emotions match up with the new and improved reality. Hopefully that will help motivate me to improve other areas of my life. Had a nice weekend. Mrs. Hold cooked yummy food for us before the fast and more yummy food to help us break the fast.

With sex off the table, we get along much better.

This morning, on her way out to the gym (I was still in bed), Mrs. Hold leaned over, gave me a kiss on the forehead, and said "FYI, the gym is closed tomorrow, so I don't have any exercise class in the morning. Just so you know."

We now have definitive proof that ANYTHING is possible if you wait long enough."




Hold you seemed be doing really well at that point.

Do you know what happened to him?

Do you think you can find him again?


Jackblack #2451666 12/13/10 06:36 AM
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Jack, no idea. He visits very rarely. Mrs. Hold made herself available unexpectedly today. I was unable to perform. I have pills but they take time to work so no use when we only have a small window before the kids wake up. The whole thing stinks.

Was planning to get up early and take a pill tomorrow. Now I am in a dark place so I might pass on the whole thing. Yes, I know, self defeating and only myself to blame.


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A hero is made in the moment,not from questioning the past or fearing what's to come.

Just read that on a stock trading site

Jackblack #2452085 12/14/10 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Jackblack
A hero is made in the moment,not from questioning the past or fearing what's to come.

Just read that on a stock trading site


Sounds like a good quote to encourage investors to make stupid, impulsive decisions.


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Took a pill this morning. Mrs. Hold did not make herself available. Pretty much expected, since making herself available 2 days in a row is an exceedingly rare event. The night I found out about the overspending and the next morning was the first time. I believe there may have been 1 or 2 other times catalogued here. So I was expected her to back out, but I took the pill to be ready to hold up my end if called upon. Thank goodness for generics from India. If I had to pay $20 for a pill that was "wasted" on solo sex, I would be angry.


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Did you ask?

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Originally Posted by sunnydaze53
Did you ask?

No....he wouldn't ask. Too risky.

'make herself available'?

Sometimes you two sound like you are living in the Victorian Age or something.

Strange...

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I made it clear I had taken a pill. She made it clear she wanted to attend the spin class. I did not insist we have sex because that makes me feel even more like I am foisting myself on her. She dissociates even when she has wholeheartedly consented. If she consented begrudgingly, I don't like to think about how far away her mind would travel. After that kind of session, I feel unclean. Better to smile and say "sure, go ahead and do the class, I know you are worried about your next weigh in, you can make it up to me later."

Anyone care to start the betting pool on when I can collect my "rain check"?


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Pondering Radical Honesty in this situation. I would in fact be enthusiastic about her going to spinnng class if I thought there was a snowball's chance in heck that she would make it up to me later. Then again, I didn't want her to stay home and have sex, because once she said she would rther spin I was no longer interested in having sex today. Radical Honesty would have required a long conversation about expectations and negotiating ground rules for future interactions. Neither of us was enthusiastic about having that conversation this morning when Mrs. Hold was rushing to get out the door for exercise class.

Guess I should find some time tonight to share my disappointment. I so hate these conversations. There is never any progress and both of us end up feeling like failures.


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You know, Hold, this all makes me shake my head. She's not really having to give up anything and you're making a ton of sacrifice. Sure she doesn't have the 8000 square foot house but she's running off to spin class and can do some shopping and what not.

Geez, if this wasn't MB, I'd say it's time to get selfish, be brutally honest. Your situation makes me angry.


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Originally Posted by holdingontoit
I made it clear I had taken a pill. She made it clear she wanted to attend the spin class. I did not insist we have sex because that makes me feel even more like I am foisting myself on her. She dissociates even when she has wholeheartedly consented. If she consented begrudgingly, I don't like to think about how far away her mind would travel. After that kind of session, I feel unclean. Better to smile and say "sure, go ahead and do the class, I know you are worried about your next weigh in, you can make it up to me later."

Anyone care to start the betting pool on when I can collect my "rain check"?

So, you take the pill and THEN notify her? What about asking if it would make sense for you to take, so you know if the pill will be wasted, or not? That sounds passive aggressive to me.


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Gdar #2452313 12/14/10 03:42 PM
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It wasn't the pill. Same dynamic if I ask her "last week you said Tuesday morning would be 'our time'. Are we still 'on' for today?" The look on her face would make it clear she wanted to spin. I know she figures that yesterday's offer excuses today. Hence the need to have a detailed, caring, understanding discussion of why spontaneous doesn't work for me at this point and why I need her to keep to a schedule.

A couple in love and without a history of mismatched libido would be able to navigate this easily. For us, I would rather have various body parts amputated than have this conversation yet again. I know I need to anyway. I will. I will dutifully report back to describe the carnage.


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Hold,
I do wonder if there is purpose in this conversation that you "need" to have?
Is there something that you need to tell your wife that she does not already know?
Do you need to ask her something that you have not yet figured out? I think not.

I an thinking your wife probably would also rather have body parts removed than have the conversation yet again.
To be honest it would probably put me off sex for another month. But we are all different, I don't know your wife.

It seems to me you need to think of a winning plan. Or at least a plan that might even have a small chance of success.
What you have been doing for the last 20 years isn't working so maybe you should try something different.

I think you could come up with a winning plan. Maybe it's time to give it a try?

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