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I don't know about your wife, but this made ME cry. Often I see this here, on this site, one spouse truly wanting to make their marriage better, and the other fighting it tooth and nail. I also see where my marriage never stood a chance. And that is where I cry. Best of luck to you both.

Originally Posted by Hilltopper1972
We had a "breakthrough" this morning! Yeah! She accepted responsibility as did I for the state of our marriage. I guess the honesty thing works! She promised that if I could watch the kids that she'd go upstairs and read Dr Harley's book. Here was my note to her and I'm so very excited to begin the journey together. I know it will be rough and we'll make mistakes along the way but I'm prepared for that. Thanks so much to all of you for the wonderful advice, it helped me tremendously and I plan to visit this forum frequently to continue receiving help and then hopefully eventually helping others.

My note early this morning to her:

Thank you for this, it is so important in my mind that we BOTH accept responsibility for the state of our marriage. By no means does fault lie with one person or the other. I have accepted that I don't meet your emotional needs and have neglected them for a long, long time. As I began to research it and do some soul searching I eventually stumbled on MarriageBuilders.com. This was not the first website I came across, I've looked at a ton. It is however the biggest and the best and after reading quite literally dozens of stories of people that were in the place we were but now have marital bliss I became a believer. Most marriage counselors, especially the free kind, don't work. It does no good for us to sit in a room together with a counselor and sit there and debate back and forth trying to get the counselors to take our side. That is exactly how it always turns out which is why there are very few successful marriage counselors period. I believe that by reading and following the principles of Dr Harley like so many others have before us, we can rebuild love back in our marriage. The Love Bank we both have right now if in the negative for each other which is why we don't feel love. When we feel that feeling of love for each other it becomes much easier and in fact exciting to be with each other.

You talked about your motivations for hurting me below. I don't think either one of us makes a conscious choice to hurt or disrespect the other. A lot of times we probably don't even realize we've done it. Many times we view hurtful things in our own eyes rather than in the eyes of our spouse. Just because I don't find some of the little things that you like don't mean they are not important to you. Just because you don't feel that you are hurting me doesn't mean that you aren't.

You refer to my wanting to always be right and being vengeful, how so? I don't want to be right or vengeful, I just want for you to love me and for me to love you. If you see being so persistent coming back to the same things over and over again it is because it means a lot to me to have a good marriage. That is my motivation, nothing else.

I will watch all the kids tonight so you can go read upstairs and I thank you for starting this first step. I don't see myself as being better than you for finding this wonderful site that I truly believe will help us by the way. I was just lucky for having stumbled upon it. If you can learn and read and take action with me this will snowball. One love deposit from me leads to one from you which leads to a whole lot of them back and forth. I know it might seem hard to believe that you could actually love me and be excited for me to come home after work, but it is true. We will have our mistakes along the way but it is worth it all. Our kids need to see a mommy and daddy that love each other, don't disrespect or undermine each other. They need to see parents that are on the same side of the fence. You can grab the book or you can read the basic concepts right on their site. Link is below. Oh, and one more thing, I DO love you very much.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3100_how.html


I am 52, stbxh is 46
One child together 15 DD
2 (mine) from 1st marriage, 26 dd and 28 ds.
Married Dec 94
Separated Oct 09
Too many D-Days to list. (EA/Cyber affairs)
He filed no fault 3-2011 I countered with grounds.
Court date set for June 6, 2011 for Final Decree and was continued.
That ticked him off, he is now fighting for custody.
Lawyers are expensive, my daughter is worth every penny.
Even the ones I have to borrow.
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Sunny,

The blame game isn't a two way street in our house. It is a one way. My wife blames circumstances and other people for anything and everything. I don't. I'm no hero for it, it is just how I see life. I remember in high school, friends would get a bad grade on a test and rather than accepting the consequences, their parents would get involved and negotiate to retake it. I always had an issue about stuff like that.


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Thanks so much for the advice! I feel good about where things are headed. We had a couple of encounters today that fizzled out rather quickly because we both have learned a bit. She DJ'd me a few times and I lashed out because she was just simply wrong to do so. It diffused though within a few minutes so things are improving. I pulled the book back out and she said, "Is that sign?" I said of course, we need to keep at it, she said ok fine I'll read some more tomorrow. We're both exhausted tonight!


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I hear ya! My wife is the Taker and I totally understand why she is dragging her feet a bit. Makes perfect sense actually. she sees a change though and we've had some lovely moments in the last couple of days. I'll keep you all posted and thanks again for the great advice.


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Hilltopper ... hows it going over there?? Was thinking about you today because I had a moment my self where I had to take my own advice and use it on my wife. So i had to review what i had said to you and put it into action myself. I guess it was time for some more "practice" lol

Anyhow, my wife was pretty snarky to me last night and this morning ... So i gently told her that I was frustrated with her attitude and she went off a bit how i caused it. I then told her that was a love buster. Then since the conversation was not going anywhere but starting to build resentment, I left the room for the remainder of the evening.

Then this morning ... I kissed her good bye on her forehead without saying anything(which woke her up) and got in my car and went to work. A few hours later she called me and apologized for love busting me last night. My frustrations lifted almost instantly when she did.

Hopefully your having some luck!

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Mr Nice Guy,

Thanks for sharing above. It is definitely a tough situation for both of us one would appear. How'd you feel about leaving the room? It is difficult for me to do because I honestly feel that she wanted to fight in the first place.

As far as my situation since last time I checked in, things have improved in terms of minimizing the DJ's and SD's for sure. She read the first 20 pages or so of Love Busters, so she gets it. She still fires some daggers at me particularly when she is grumpy. My two real concerns are the following:

Emotional Needs: I told her a couple days ago that I intentionally hold back in meeting more of her emotional needs than I already have been because I feel a since of inequity in this endeavor. I clearly am putting in way more effort in meeting her needs than the other way around. In fact aside from it just being more pleasant around the house, I see almost no attempt to meet my emotional needs at all and it really bothers me. I also told her that she has been the taker long enough and I have no desire to be her "whipping boy" and do whatever she tells me to do anymore. I also said this WILL happen and she can work with me to make it easier on both of us.

Blaming: This isn't going away at all. My wife refuses to take responsibility for anything and its completely ridiculous. Here is an illustration of just how bad it is. I asked her if she would make dinner two nights ago if I went to the store and bought some stuff for tortilla soup and enchiladas. I do 98% of the cooking so this was unusual, but she agreed and was happy to do so. Btw, her cooking is not an emotional need for me at all. So the soup and enchiladas were both lousy on her own admission. I comforted her and said it was delicious, but eventually assessed it with her honestly because it wasn't really a matter of opinion if it was good tasting or not! So later that evening she said, "The reason the dinner was bad was because I was in a bad mood and the person that published the recipe online was an idiot."
This is how far she takes it all day every day. I don't know if it is just an annoying habit or not. It seems to me to be more serious than that. It makes marriage difficult when one spouse never takes responsibility for anything if she doesn't want to. Like I mentioned before when my four and six year old start to do it I hold them accountable at each turn and let them know it is unacceptable. So whenever we have a disagreement she projects whatever it is on to something or someone else, usually me. My wife goes through life knowing that she has an out or excuse for literally everything. She has time for gardening, lots of television, shopping online, etc, but she has no time for reading LoveBusters or her husband. But she says, "Its not my fault, the kids are with me all day."
I guess this is a process and I'm not discouraged to the point of not trying, but I need to demand(somehow unselfishly) that she join me in this goal of bringing love back into our marriage. She is the Taker so she's not in any hurry I suppose.

One more thing, how can stop doing everything she asks me without it being an obvious attempt at some form of equity in our relationship? She asks me to do all these things because lets face it, I do them. Why would she stop?


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Originally Posted by Hilltopper1972
How'd you feel about leaving the room? It is difficult for me to do because I honestly feel that she wanted to fight in the first place.

So you think the best idea is to indulge her? Please rethink that.

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My two real concerns are the following:

Emotional Needs: I told her a couple days ago that I intentionally hold back in meeting more of her emotional needs than I already have been because I feel a since of inequity in this endeavor.

Where is this in the MB literature? What plan is this? It's not MB, not at all. This is PUNISHING your spouse, you are selfishly demanding that she meet your needs, OR ELSE.

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Blaming: This isn't going away at all. My wife refuses to take responsibility for anything and its completely ridiculous. Here is an illustration of just how bad it is. I asked her if she would make dinner two nights ago if I went to the store and bought some stuff for tortilla soup and enchiladas.

So the soup and enchiladas were both lousy on her own admission. I comforted her and said it was delicious, but eventually assessed it with her honestly because it wasn't really a matter of opinion if it was good tasting or not! So later that evening she said, "The reason the dinner was bad was because I was in a bad mood and the person that published the recipe online was an idiot."
This is how far she takes it all day every day.

Okay, Q #1: did she want to prepare soup and enchiladas? You may be better off requesting that she cook whatever she likes to make best. I could *demand* that my H make fried chicken and mashed potatoes for me, but if I want something tasty, I better ask for meatloaf.

Q#2: what would you think about trying to understand her form of communication? Once you understand, you'll be better able to not be irritated by it, AND you can gently persuade her to be more direct. I read your quote as her saying, "I didn't want to do this in the first place, and then I picked a bad recipe." Which is totally accepting blame imho. "I agreed to something I wasn't enthusiastic about, then I got sloppy because I wasn't enthusiastic." kwim?

Quote
One more thing, how can stop doing everything she asks me without it being an obvious attempt at some form of equity in our relationship? She asks me to do all these things because lets face it, I do them. Why would she stop?

In MB parlance, you should stop doing everything she asks that you are not enthusiastic about doing. Honestly enthusiastic, not the PUNISHMENT you described above. Don't refuse to do something purely out of spite.


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You make some points here that I believe are assumptions on your part. You do have a few thousand posts on me here so I'll yield to your experience, however she made whatever she wanted for dinner, not me. I asked her if she wanted to make dinner, she said sure, she opened some cook books for ideas, and chose what she chose, I had nothing to do with it. She has no problems saying no if she doesn't want to do something.

In regards to to leaving the room, I should rephrase my comment to "It isn't difficult, but it makes me feel sad every time it happens."

In holding back meeting her emotional needs, it is not really a conscious intentional decision. It is more along the lines of not wanting to meet her needs because she doesn't bother meeting mine. This is instinctual and selfish I know this, but I have yet to see a change in her behavior as a result of a change in mine. She's still taking, I'm giving, and it is hard to do day in and day out without fail indefinitely. My Taker wants to come out and play and I keep shoving him down out of the picture. I can appreciate things taking time, but at some point there needs to be a shock to the system to make progress and this is the part I'm struggling with. She likes it how it is, I don't, and it has to change. I don't want everyday to be about me being brutally honest about how she makes me feel and how unhappy I am, this makes her resent me and lash out at me.



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First, pay no attention to post count when determining if someone knows what they're talking about. smile

You said in your post I quoted that you *told her* it was intentional about meeting needs. Then you said it wasn't intentional. Which is it? What do you think she believes? If my H told me that he intentionally wasn't meeting my needs because I didn't meet all of his, I would consider him a self-serving jerk and would be LESS inspired to meet his needs. Because that would tell me that he was only doing things for me out of 'what's in it for him'. Not because he loved me and wanted to show me that. Be careful of the message you're sending. You want to be firm, and actionable, on what you want from her.

You've only been here two months. Have some patience. Change your side of the interactions, don't fall for bait, and for goodness sakes stop DJing her intentions.


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Hilltopper as i previously mentioned, when you let your taker come into play while trying to win your wife over to taking on MB principals you are back peddling and that does not help your situation. You need to come out looking like a saint to show that MB is changing you. If you stop meeting her needs then it will be hard to convince her that MB is working for you because obviously she wants her needs met first.

You said shes read about 20 pages of "love busters" and that she "gets it" ... but having read only 20 pages doesnt really give a clear picture of what the love busters are. By creating a resentful environment and allowing your taker to move in she will DEF be unwilling to continue reading. My wife did this to me over and over again ... Let me remind you of my previous post to you that highlighted what your going through right now.

Originally Posted by MrNiceGuy
In a situation similar to mine .. I had read the book "his needs her needs" myself looking for answers. I read it prior to convincing my wife to read it. WHen an attempt to create an intimate mood failed she would throw the book back at me (knowing i had read it) when I would try to explain my self while frustrated at her negative reaction, she would say ..
Originally Posted by MrNiceGuy's Wife
Well see! Now your going back to your old ways again. OBVIOUSLY *rolls her eyes* that book is not even helping you and everything your doing for me is a lie!
Then my knee jerk reaction would be to convince her that my actions and affection are not manipulation, but that attempt to convince her i was being genuine would bring out the taker in me and proved to her, in HER mind (disrespectful judgement), that I was being my regular annoying self.

You asked .. "How did it feel to leave the room?" Well .. it never feels good. I feel aweful actually. But it is necessary to disengage and establish boundries to what is and is not acceptable. Lashing back and with holding on meeting EN's of the non conformed relcutant spouse, is not going to convince her at all .. and she will resent the program entirely until she sees a consistant change in you! Since you are the one that is here .. its up to you to be the example.. Dont tell it ... LIVE IT.

If you read my story, you will see the gaps between my posts. It took a long.. LONG time to get my wife on board. Coupled with alot of praying. I banged my head against the wall alot trying to convince her to do MB with me but keeping MY TAKER at bay was hard work. What your doing with your taker .. happened to me ALOT. And each time I let my taker take over, It was back to square one.

Did you ask your wife if she was willing to read with you if you got the kids to bed at a decent time? Get the daily chores done, Run a bath ... and wash her back and read out loud to her while she relaxes? Or sit in bed together after she gets out and read together? Maybe reading lovebusters first is nota good idea? try approaching her with some articles first .. ones that she can relate to before bringing up your own ... How about the book "His needs Her needs" first?

Keep at it ... you will hit your head on the wall many times and back peddle alot til you get your taker under control. I know I did ...

MNG


Edited for wording

Last edited by MrNiceGuy; 04/05/11 02:32 PM.
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Hilltopper,

CWMI has the right idea about need meeting. Think about parents of childen...we love to meet their needs...affection, support, admiration...the whole gambit. We never expect to get our needs met from them...

Do what feels right but not what makes you resentful. You shouldn't be keeping score.

I used to do that so I know.

An example is, I love to text/e-mail. I used to do it with my friends when I heard/saw something cute or funny. Very rarely with my husband because he didn't ever respond and I just got mad. Now, when I see or hear something and want to tell him about it I do. He responds a lot. If I count them, they are nowhere near equal but that is okay.

It's like I tell my kids...don't say I love you unless you mean it and if you mean it, it won't matter if he/she says it back.

Once she feels this from you, she will most likely fall in love and WANT to meet your needs.

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This is all so tough what all of you said. I feel as if my "taker" comments are something I share with you all honestly. I don't disrespect her in person any longer, I express my feelings about that to you. I can't control my feelings, all I can do is choose not to express feelings or make comments that will hurt her. I keep waking up every day waiting for her to say something like, "I'm so sorry I don't deserve you. I'm so sorry for doing this to you all this time." I know that this sounds so self serving and egotistical. I'm gonna keep doing this thing as best I can with all my heart. What scares me is my instincts tell me she is either unwilling or incapable of making this change with me. I no longer mention her mother to her anymore which is of great concern to me. I feel that it is ok to mention to you that the situation she grew up in wasn't only horrific, but continues to this day. This lady is awful, friggin disgusting to my wife, her husband, etc. I don't even think my wife has control over her emotions or actions. Call me crazy, angry, or just frustrated, but I'm fighting a battle that is just ridiculous. I get excited at times and then get a door slammed in my face over and over again and I don't know how long I can keep taking it. Everybody in here keeps saying that if I lead by example then "she'll most likely fall in love with you again", but I'm sorry man I'm just not buying it as of yet. I'm certain it works for many but I have yet to see one ounce of return for my investment. Do I want to fill her love bank yes!!!!!!! More than you know, I don't do it just to fill my own pockets. But how long do you keep giving to someone that only benefits them forever? I need way more insight and advice here, I'm struggling.


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Quote
don't say I love you unless you mean it and if you mean it, it won't matter if he/she says it back.
I'm with ya, Sunny, except for this part. That's really up to the listener, I think. It's very important for some people to hear that affirmation.


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Hilltopper ... It seems as though your wife is just not allowing you to meet her needs (you do know what they are dont you? did you fill out the emotional needs questionaire?) If you know what they are .. and your doing your best to fill them .. and shes not responding in any sort of positivity I would suspect that their may be another man in the picture somewhere.

Do you go to work full time and is she at home all day? Do you have a household computer that you all share? Does she have facebook?

I would do some snooping to see who shes chatting to when your gone to work. Could be she may have some kind of affair going on. I know my wife kinda did ... but it was only EA. HOwever .. that is still bad becasue then she is getting her need for intimate conversation met by someone else other than you and that can put up an emotional barrier between you and her. Most women need deep conversataion to feel loved. NOt casual talk .. but talk about feelings .. etc.

I didnt even know that EA's (emotional affairs) existed until I came here. I had them myself without realizing it .. not to the point of falling in love with someone ... but sharing details of my marriage with other women .. and my wife did the same with guys she met online. Well .. that opens a HUGE can of worms and it wittles away at your love for eachother. ALL MARITAL ISSUES should be either communicated respectfuly to your wife and hers to you .. and the only other acceptable communication about your marriage issues should be to a friend of the SAME SEX. Our instincts tell us to indulge in this conversation with opposite sex friends becasue its "easier" or becasue your getting a point of view from the other sexes perspective .. but that is DANGEROUS.

Has your wife ever said .. "your more like a brother to me" or .. I LOVE you but i am NOT in love with you" or anything along those lines? If so .. get snooping! Meanwhile ... you continue plan A and be the best Hubby you can be until you find out whats going on and why your on the bottom of the importance list.

Once my wife eliminated the online scene ... and ended all communications with her online buddies she was grouchy for a while .. but soon realized that feelings follow actions and as we read his needs her needs .. she began to realize what it was we were missing. And more specificly what it was she needed from me after she got a better mind set on the whole marriage builders concepts.

To do this .. I would suggest you put a keylogger on your home PC. This will get you passwords and everything for all her internet activity. Your Wife sounds VERY foggy especially since shes not responding very well to your Plan A. Head over to the Operation investigate area of the forum .. and check out some of the tools they post over there to snoop. I use www.desktopshark.com for a keylogger becasue its free and is not detectable by my antivirus.

If you find something questionable.. DO NOT LET HER KNOW! DO NOT CONFRONT! .. Gather your evidence .. and save it all somewhere safe then come back here to form a plan with us and continue your plan A.

MNG

p.s. Have you read his needs her needs yet?

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Originally Posted by MrNiceGuy
(you do know what they are dont you? did you fill out the emotional needs questionaire?)

Million dollar question, to which I'll add: does she know yours?

ETA: unless you thoroughly fill out the questionnaires, it's all shooting in the dark. "I need more sex," for instance...easily met by ramping up from 0 times a month to once, right? Or completely unmeetable because 'more sex' means five times a day. Without the information as listed on the Q's, stating a vague need ("More conversation" rather than "30 minutes of conversation once a day") is useless.

Last edited by CWMI; 04/07/11 12:55 PM.

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I went through the phone records, email, etc. Nothing there, I even asked her and she gave a resounding no. I don't think it is in here values to be a cheater, sexual or other. Besides we have a 4 month old, a 4 year old and a 6 year old so I just don't see it being possible. I'm very confident in her answer and will move past it and get back to LoveBusters.

We each know each other's emotional needs and I read them frequently. She gave me the most common 10 but never told me which ones were the most important. Being a practical dude I went straight for the ones like taking care of kids, making lunches, doing laundry, etc. We had a fight last night and a long, long talk this morning. It revolved around a few things which I'll get into later, but as it relates to EN's, she ranked the most important ones. First on her list was romance and I was shocked to say the least. Either she makes me feels stupid or I just feel stupid when I do romantic stuff. I feel like she is laughing at me behind my back. I told her that I would work on this and that it would be great if she gave me feedback about things. See for me I can't help but want to know that what I'm doing is making an impact and we struggle with this. She doesn't communicate as good as she thinks she does so I'm constantly guessing. Any feedback on romance would be amazing cause I'm ready to dive in. I want to feel confident that what I'm doing is being enjoyed by her. I WANT to make her happy in this way.

The next emotional need on the list was as a father. I'm a great father and I guess I raise our children how I was raised. Our daughter is six and is scared to ride her bike. I ask her if she wants to give it a shot about once a week and she turns it down out of fear. I guess I prefer not to "push" my kids into anything, but rather introduce them to things. If they get into it then they get 100% support from me all the way. I asked my wife her motivation for this, was it for our daughter's sake or hers? In other words, is she embarrassed about it? She said it wasn't the reason why and I guess it really doesn't matter. It would make her happy if I put a little more emphasis on the bike thing so I will.

Lastly she wants me to be more "handy". This isn't going away. She knows I'm not the greatest with a drill, but I want to put in the effort. I'm perfectly ok with not being mr fixit and she doesn't expect me to start building cabinets in the garage, but she gets annoyed when things are broken around the house. Money is tight and has been for a long time so I feel like I'm automatically against spending money regardless of what it is for which causes a lot of my inaction. I set a reminder for me every Sat morning to "fix something that is cheap." I can't do the big stuff and we can't afford it, but the little things I'm perfectly capable of so I'll keep doing so until they are all done.

I am concerned about her reluctance to try more. She fully admits to being in Taker mode and being selfish. I get easily discouraged when I do my best to meet her emotional needs but the same effort is not coming back the other way you know? I let her know that if nothing else I want to see a solid effort. What else besides being a parent is more important than our marriage. Our children need to see a loving an affectionate mommy and daddy too and that we'd be foolish to think they don't see it or sense it on a regular basis.


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Hilltopper .. Are you sure you read the emotional needs on this site? Has your wife read the emotional needs? The ones your describing (romance) (father) (handyman).. those are not terms of MB but I will help identifiy them for you.

Romance - This need of your wife for romance falls under the 2 top emotional needs of women generally. Those being "affection" http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3305_aff.html and "intimate conversation." http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3315_conv.html

To meet these needs you need to have 15 hours a week together aprox to fulfill this. (its 15 on MB but even i have a hard time with 15hours sometimes its 10 .. sometimes its 12 sometimes its 8. Her side of the "romance" is all non sexual .. make sure your affection does not have a sexual undertone in it otherwise its just displaying your need for sexual fulfillment.. there is a fine line there.

Here is the link to the emotional needs questionair! http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4501_enq.html

Print it out .. x2 .. then fill them out .. and exchange them. It makes it pretty simple.

Father - Your wifes need for you to be a father is her need for "family commitment" http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3345_fam.html Herre is a tip for you to teach your daughter to ride a bike .. and i used it on my own kids. Get a 2 wheeler that is too small for her .. remove the pedals and the shaft that goes in between .. and lower the seat so she stands higher than that bike. then get her to practice "coasting" and runing on it while sitting on the seat. My son and daughter both learned this way .. and it only took a few days with lots of encouragement and positive reinforcement from me.

Handyman - Your wifes need for you to be more handy falls in the category of "domestic support" http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3340_dom.html

Read the links and print out the emotional needs questionaire and do them together and then exchange them and discuss.

I think her reluctance to try more is deriving from the focus on love busters. Get her on board with what resounds with her. Maybe print out some of the concepts for her that revolve around what she wants you to do and let her see if your doing them by compaing your "doing" with what Dr. Harley says falls into those categories that interest her. She may be more open to MB approcahing from it from what she will get out of it rather than focusing on the bad side of things. REading His needs her needs will really expand on the "good stuff" more so than the bad stuff like love busters does. I think with the love busters book ... its putting pressure on her to change bad behaviours .. but i think due to its negative undertone she is taking with it she is being reluctant because she cant see the light at the end of hte tunnel. Make it more about her and how your goin to do what Dr. Harleys articles suggest and point out her needs to her through Dr. Harleys terms. Then she will recognize more so what your doing .. and be able to compare your efforts to what the dr. Prescribes.


You could bring up her need for romance .. and show her the articles on conversation .. and affection. And being with those to open the door to being the hubby she wants you to be.

Keep up the good work ... With my wife I had to point out more and more about what was in it for her and how I was to change rather than show her what she needed to change.

MNG

p.s. Vets If i am getting this wrong or mixed up .. plz let me know .. my posts get a bit long winded so i lose my train of thought often lol.

edit for spelling and a messed up link



Last edited by MrNiceGuy; 04/08/11 03:45 PM.
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Originally Posted by MrNiceGuy
Hilltopper .. Are you sure you read the emotional needs on this site? Has your wife read the emotional needs? The ones your describing (romance) (father) (handyman).. those are not terms of MB but I will help identifiy them for you.(Yes I've read them all!)

Romance - This need of your wife for romance falls under the 2 top emotional needs of women generally. Those being "affection" http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3305_aff.html and "intimate conversation." (The affection is there from me, not from her. I make efforts to hug, kids, tell her I love her daily, she doesn't at the current time need any more affection.)http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3315_conv.html(I've made an effort and I told her this to look her in the eyes when she talks and take an interest in what she is saying. Its been better, but I'm still working on improving.)

To meet these needs you need to have 15 hours a week together aprox to fulfill this. (its 15 on MB but even i have a hard time with 15hours sometimes its 10 .. sometimes its 12 sometimes its 8. Her side of the "romance" is all non sexual .. make sure your affection does not have a sexual undertone in it otherwise its just displaying your need for sexual fulfillment.. there is a fine line there.(I hear ya on this point. I offered a massage which likely had a sexual overtone, btw there is no sex whatsoever, zilch. We spend about 2 hours at night after the kids to to bed, most of the time it is in front of TV watching the shows we both like together because we are so exhausted. I suggested scrabble instead but she kind of was down on the idea. I'm not confident right now knowing when to just "do things" vs "ask things". Maybe next time I won't ask I'll just setup the table and see how it plays out.)

Here is the link to the emotional needs questionair! http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4501_enq.html

Print it out .. x2 .. then fill them out .. and exchange them. It makes it pretty simple.(will do, we have the workbook)

Father - Your wifes need for you to be a father is her need for "family commitment" http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3345_fam.html Herre is a tip for you to teach your daughter to ride a bike .. and i used it on my own kids. Get a 2 wheeler that is too small for her .. remove the pedals and the shaft that goes in between .. and lower the seat so she stands higher than that bike. then get her to practice "coasting" and runing on it while sitting on the seat. My son and daughter both learned this way .. and it only took a few days with lots of encouragement and positive reinforcement from me.(Good idea)

Handyman - Your wifes need for you to be more handy falls in the category of "domestic support" http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3340_dom.html(Domestically I'm a champ, I do more than any dad I know around the house. She has a specific desire for me to be good at fixing or building stuff. She never lets it go and often times "belittles" me about it because she knows it hurts me I assume. I can get better here.)

Read the links and print out the emotional needs questionaire and do them together and then exchange them and discuss.

I think her reluctance to try more is deriving from the focus on love busters. Get her on board with what resounds with her. Maybe print out some of the concepts for her that revolve around what she wants you to do and let her see if your doing them by compaing your "doing" with what Dr. Harley says falls into those categories that interest her. She may be more open to MB approcahing from it from what she will get out of it rather than focusing on the bad side of things. REading His needs her needs will really expand on the "good stuff" more so than the bad stuff like love busters does. I think with the love busters book ... its putting pressure on her to change bad behaviours .. but i think due to its negative undertone she is taking with it she is being reluctant because she cant see the light at the end of hte tunnel. Make it more about her and how your goin to do what Dr. Harleys articles suggest and point out her needs to her through Dr. Harleys terms. Then she will recognize more so what your doing .. and be able to compare your efforts to what the dr. Prescribes.(All of this is great and yes I'm sure she feels the negative undertone because she is guilty about not making the effort? I dunno, I guess this doesn't matter either. She mentioned actually getting two jars out that represents our love banks and putting notes in each time we do something that fills it up. That way it is easy to see who is doing what and I'm sure she'll feel bad if hers is full and mine is mostly empty you know? Any issues with this?)


You could bring up her need for romance .. and show her the articles on conversation .. and affection. And being with those to open the door to being the hubby she wants you to be.

Keep up the good work ... With my wife I had to point out more and more about what was in it for her and how I was to change rather than show her what she needed to change.

MNG

p.s. Vets If i am getting this wrong or mixed up .. plz let me know .. my posts get a bit long winded so i lose my train of thought often lol.

edit for spelling and a messed up link


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If you want to also show me how to quote stuff properly I'd be grateful for the instruction. My answers are in brackets above.


Married 15 years
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When i do multiple quotes ... what I do is log in to MB .. then open a second tab with MB in it again .. this way it leaves my reply open on one .. while i chop up quotes from the other one and copy and paste them into my posts/replies. So for instance .. lets say you want to just quote a small piece of my post .. you would open MB in a seperate window and find my post .. and hit QUOTE. This opens the reply box again but you just cut out all the stuff you do not want in the quote move the BB code quote commands around to where you deem fit.

the quote commands look like this but no spaces: [ quote=username ] text here [ /quote ] all the quoted stuff goes in between the commands where it says text here .. so if you do it right it would look like this
Originally Posted by username
text here

You can actually look up BB codes on the net and use a wide assortment of them including bold texting ... colours ... size ... etc. all with BB codes. All the codes go in between the [ ] and to end the code so it goes .. you have to have the / in the second command like for instance I could bold this text BOLD using [ b ] bold [/b]

get it?

You can learn all sorts of BB codes here .. http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/misc.php?do=bbcode

Keep at it ... get those questionairs filled out .. and until she is more onboard with MB dont dwell too much on the negative or the lovebusters. Woo her into MB by showing her whats in it for her ... keep the topics short. Like one article a day .. or sit down over a cup of coffee and read out the affection one to her or the conversation one to her .. etc .. keep it simple. Babies dont start with solid food .. so you give them milk until they grow. Your wife is in the same boat .. give her the "milk" of MB by showing her the easy stuff, the stuff that allows her to see your changes and helps her understand her needs (my wife didnt even know her needs until it was all laid out to her in baby steps. After you do the questionairs .. then focus on her needs and the articles and info that surrounds them. I would get right off of love busters since she is being reluctant .. and go for the mushy stuff .. like his needs her needs .. its more focused on the happy side of marriage rather than the side that could be taken as a bit offensive until they see the entire picture.

My wife and I started with the POJA article (that got the ball roling and my wife lit up after reading it and said
Originally Posted by MrNiceGuys wife
Ha ha! This is a double edged sword!
... then after she got ideas in her head how she could get what she wanted using POJA we read His needs her needs ... and the ball just continued to roll from there. The LAST one we did .. (just 2 weeks ago) was love busters ... it was easier to chew on becasue my wife already understood the other "milk" topics that I fed her. smile

Keep it up ... you will break through to her. Just a matter of time .. and finding the right chord that strikes her.


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