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Originally Posted by MrNiceGuy
Originally Posted by Hilltopper1972
When you say "no real infidelity" are you referring to your own situation or mine?
Mine .. because neither one of us knew what an EA was until we discovered MB.

Originally Posted by Hilltopper1972
I'm trying not to be so needy and insecure so I'm heading out to watch baseball with a buddy which I stopped doing in an effort to force the issue with her each night! I also called her good friend so that she could go out Thursday night for some fun as well.


Was she enthusiastic about this? Reason I ask is because your most enjoyable times should be spent together. There is a recreational enjoyment inventory that you can download and fill out together. It will help you guys identifiy activities that you both enjoy so you can spend some "fun" time together reconnecting at a social level to begin being intimate again.

Recreational inventoy link - http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4505_rei.html

Originally Posted by Hilltopper1972
Do you mind, without telling me the details, what things you see in your marriage that I have to look forward to and day dream about?

Sure! I will tell you this much. Over the last 2 months especially since we have finished the love busters book, she has been apologizing for her negative behaviours and love busters! Well we have been together for 16 years (im 32) and this year she has apologized to me more than she has ever in our entire relationship! Like about 6 or 7 times now. Usually its me keeping the peace .. even if i feel im right and doing the apologizing. This didnt start happening though until her love bank for me was well into the green.

She now meets my top 5 needs on a fairly consistant basis. Especially since she has been taking maca root. It has totally helped her energy levels.

She told me to keep track of her cycle and warn her of her PMS week. She likes this because then it helps her identify her own unbalanced feelings. And is no longer offended when i mention its coming up.

SF has become amazing and is to the point now where shes initiating it often enough that i no longer feel like im starving emotionally anymore. Kinda like she knows im going to be hungry soon so she "feeds me" before it effects my mood. So it is becoming easier to initiate for her because im no longer "suffocating" her or "smothering" her as she used to indicate alot and associate it with my "neediness". She understands now its not just physical, but that us guys get the same emotional feelings that they do when they get intimate conversation.

So just keep doing your thing ... POJA EVERYTHING! ... fill her emotional needs as often as you can .. blow her mind. Stop reacting emotionally to her when she is being emotional. Be her "rock" and before ya know it .. it will all fall into place and you'll feel like you just met again and the puppy love will come back.

smile

p.s. Your getting better at your "quoting" too .. good job!

I read a consistently theme in here which is the use of the word "we" as it pertains to reading the books, working the program, etc. I'd love there to be a "we" in all of this and there might be one day but for now I think I am so far in the negative in terms of her LB that I'm just not gonna get that commitment like I want it. Things are pleasant the last two days, but the workbook during our last fight was thrown to the ground by her. I won't take too much offense to it. I think it has more to do with me pressing too much and "teaching" her about Dr H's program which cause her, not an outright rejection of the principles, you know? I've gotta get out of the red and into the green before I can push her to dive into this with me. I would love to do the 15 hours with her but I don't think she wants to with me. This is hurtful. If anyone can think of some other ways to get her more likely to read the books I'm all ears.


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Steve. Harley. ASAP


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Originally Posted by kilted_thrower
Steve. Harley. ASAP

I'll work on that. Good day yesterday one thing bothered me, she said I love you, I sat down next to her put my hand on her leg and gave it a squeeze, she said take your hand off my fat so I did. Does that sound like "don't touch me" or "I'm a little insecure after having baby?"


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Originally Posted by Hilltopper1972
Originally Posted by kilted_thrower
Steve. Harley. ASAP

I'll work on that.

How?


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Insecurity. Be more sensitive to this and touch non-jiggly parts, like shoulders (especially where they meet the neck--that may be just me but I love that) and dish out verbal compliments on other parts to build her confidence for touching later. "Your legs look really good in those shorts." Let her catch you checking out her rear-end in an approving way. Come up behind her and run your finger down her spine and stop just above her bum. If you come up behind her to give her hug, try to embrace in the skinniest part--just below the breast. If she's sitting with her feet up, run your finger down the curve of her foot, unless she's really ticklish.


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Originally Posted by markos
Originally Posted by Hilltopper1972
Originally Posted by kilted_thrower
Steve. Harley. ASAP

I'll work on that.

How?

I could just ask her flat out and let the cards fall as they may! I guess I won't know if I try. I've been preaching so much however that she's tired of it, probably feels guilty maybe? I'm buying a little time in just avoiding LB's right now. This is day four so far and it feels good. My wife doesn't like to be rushed on anything in life, going somewhere, getting ready, deciding things, etc. I think I'll avoid 100% of all LB's the rest of this week and then casually almost nonchalantly suggest a call. Would this be a joint call or just a call with Steve and my wife? I guess I'm not clear on that.


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Originally Posted by CWMI
Insecurity. Be more sensitive to this and touch non-jiggly parts, like shoulders (especially where they meet the neck--that may be just me but I love that) and dish out verbal compliments on other parts to build her confidence for touching later. "Your legs look really good in those shorts." Let her catch you checking out her rear-end in an approving way. Come up behind her and run your finger down her spine and stop just above her bum. If you come up behind her to give her hug, try to embrace in the skinniest part--just below the breast. If she's sitting with her feet up, run your finger down the curve of her foot, unless she's really ticklish.

I love my wife's body, it is great, she is just hard on herself. She has a great bum and she knows exactly to a tee how I feel about it. Compliments on how she looks are fairly common coming from me but they don't always have a good effect. I think my wife at this time thinks that any effort of any kind to fill a need, make a compliment, or touch her in anyway has but one motivation from me, sex. Believe me I'm dying to have sex with my wife, but most of all I want to feel loved by her and affection has a lot to do with that feeling for me at least. What I have learned here and from experience is that I can't try hard for 48 hours and get what I want out of this. That is my nature and that is how I handle things in my company, which is immediately. This is a relationship and far different from that strategy. In my mind I believe that consistency is key here so she knows that I will just compliment her, buy her a little something, hug her, kiss her, and make an obvious attempt at romance or one of her EN's because I want to make her happy, not because all I want is sex. There is no desire for sex and every time I think a good evening might turn into something she always rolls over and falls asleep. I don't even get a "maybe tomorrow night" courtesy comment brush off anymore. I don't ask anymore because it makes it worse.


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Hill, in my marriage, getting an enthusiastic yes to sex often meant it was preceded by "Good morning" instead of "Good night", kwim? I don't have babies anymore, but I'm still beat by the end of the day. Perhaps a time-of-day adjustment would help your approach?





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Hill, Get your wife some MACA ROOT! After I got my wife to try it (takes a few days to work, aprox 5 days actually) she will not be without it now. Absolutlely LOVES it. I take it too. Its a super food and whats called an Adaptogen. Do some research on it .. its very effective and DEF does all it says it does.

Heres what it did to my wife that i DEF noticed. She could attest to it if she posted. And yes she was very reluctant at first and skeptical but it surprised her.

1. First it totally helped her energy levels.
2. It reduced her stress by alot
3. It increased her libido a good fair bit.
4. It has made her mood during PMS weeks alot more tolerable.

Heres is the negative that she mentioned and so far only 1 thing.

1. Makes her period a fair bit heavier as the product claims to increase fertility so it takes a few days longer for her period to come than she used to.

Here is some links to do some reading on it...

www.macaroot.com
www.macatalk.com
www.macasex.com

Also check the wiki on it ... it has a great write up on it.

MNG

p.s. for me .. Maca root has decreased my recovery time when i work out. and it has lowered my stress levels .. and lowered my sex drive a bit so im not so ancy if its been a few days. Its a natural hormone balancer. It does NOT add horomones to your system .. but it allows your system to rebalance itself so if some of your endrocine system is exausted (such as child birth etc) it gives the proper nutrients to all your glands and allows them to produce the proper amount again. Or if your over producing it will allow it to cut back. etc.

p.s.s If you do descided to get it .. get it in capsule form ... NOT the powder form. The capsule form has all the starches removed.

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Lol. Mr. Maca!

So, gave in, did some academic search;

Quote
Lepidium meyenii (Maca) is a cultivated root belonging to the brassica family
used in the Andean region for its supposed aphrodisiac properties. We carried
out a double-blind clinical trial on 50 Caucasian men affected by mild erectile
dysfunction (ED), randomised to treatment with Maca dry extract, 2400 mg,
or placebo. The treatment effect on ED and subjective well-being was tested
administrating before and after 12 weeks the International Index of Erectile
Function (IIEF-5) and the Satisfaction Profile (SAT-P). After 12 weeks of treatment,
both Maca- and placebo-treated patients experienced a significant
increase in IIEF-5 score (P < 0.05 for both). However, patients taking Maca
experienced a more significant increase than those taking placebo (1.6 � 1.1
versus 0.5 � 0.6, P < 0.001). Both Maca- and placebo-treated subjects experienced
a significant improvement in psychological performance-related SAT-P
score, but the Maca group higher than that of placebo group (+9 � 6 versus
+6 � 5, P < 0.05). However, only Maca-treated patients experienced a significant
improvement in physical and social performance-related SAT-P score
compared with the baseline (+7 � 6 and +7 � 6, both P < 0.05). In conclusion,
our data support a small but significant effect of Maca supplementation
on subjective perception of general and sexual well-being in adult patients with
mild ED.

Zenico, T. T., Cicero, A. G., Valmorri, L. L., Mercuriali, M. M., & Bercovich, E. E. (2009). Subjective effects of Lepidium meyenii (Maca) extract on well-being and sexual performances in patients with mild erectile dysfunction: a randomised, double-blind clinical trial. Andrologia, 41(2), 95-99. doi:10.1111/j.1439-0272.2008.00892.x

Quote
We sought to determine whether maca, a Peruvian plant, is effective for selective-serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SSRI)-induced sexual dysfunction. We conducted a double-blind, randomized, parallel group dose-finding pilot study comparing a low-dose (1.5 g/day) to a high-dose (3.0 g/day) maca regimen in 20 remitted depressed outpatients (mean age 36+/-13 years; 17 women) with SSRI-induced sexual dysfunction. The Arizona Sexual Experience Scale (ASEX) and the Massachusetts General Hospital Sexual Function Questionnaire (MGH-SFQ) were used to measure sexual dysfunction. Ten subjects completed the study, and 16 subjects (9 on 3.0 g/day; 7 on 1.5 g/day) were eligible for intent-to-treat (ITT) analyses on the basis of having had at least one postbaseline visit. ITT subjects on 3.0 g/day maca had a significant improvement in ASEX (from 22.8+/-3.8 to 16.9+/-6.2; z=-2.20, P=0.028) and in MGH-SFQ scores (from 24.1+/-1.9 to 17.0+/-5.7; z=-2.39, P=0.017), but subjects on 1.5 g/day maca did not. Libido improved significantly (P<0.05) for the ITT and completer groups based on ASEX item #1, but not by dosing groups. Maca was well tolerated. Maca root may alleviate SSRI-induced sexual dysfunction, and there may be a dose-related effect. Maca may also have a beneficial effect on libido.

Dording, C., Fisher, L., Papakostas, G., Farabaugh, A., Sonawalla, S., Fava, M., & Mischoulon, D. (2008). A double-blind, randomized, pilot dose-finding study of maca root (L. meyenii) for the management of SSRI-induced sexual dysfunction. CNS Neuroscience & Therapeutics, 14(3), 182-191. Retrieved from EBSCOhost.


Those are from peer-reviewed journals.


NOW my curiosity may be piqued.


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Originally Posted by CWMI
Hill, in my marriage, getting an enthusiastic yes to sex often meant it was preceded by "Good morning" instead of "Good night", kwim? I don't have babies anymore, but I'm still beat by the end of the day. Perhaps a time-of-day adjustment would help your approach?

Morning sex hasn't happened since we were dating. She doesn't feel like it ever. I'm one horny guy, probably more so cause I never get any. I'd do it anytime anywhere, but my wife is more cautious. Maybe it is a hormone thing or low libido and I'm being too hard on myself and her? I'll take a look at Maca root, can you buy it at the drugstore?


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Originally Posted by Hilltopper1972
I'll take a look at Maca root, can you buy it at the drugstore?

Any health food store.

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Originally Posted by Hilltopper1972
I'm one horny guy, probably more so cause I never get any.

Bingo!

And the level of satisfaction achieved when you do also contributes!


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

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Originally Posted by HoldHerHand
Lol. Mr. Maca!

LoL ... I cant help it. It had such a dramatic effect on my wife that I have to tell everyone about it.

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Withholding sex is intentional no?


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I want to understand sex in the eyes of both men and women. I must fess up, SF is right up there with Affection to me in terms of EN's. My wife as you know makes excuses and the sex one is pretty bad. I thought about it yet again after being turned down last night. She is intentionally withholding sex from me right? This isn't like a bad habit or not being an affectionate person in general right? She is making a conscious decision each and every day not to have sex with me. SF is an emotional need for me that speaks volumes about who the other person feels about me and loves me. After being turned down last night I expressed myself about it the best way I knew how without trying to make a SD. I said, "if another week goes by and the excuse about sex continues, I'll know that it isn't that your tummy hurts or that you're just tired any longer." She is running this morning, she wasn't too tired for that right? I think being SF would allow a lot of things to fall into place. By the way, we snuggled for 2 mins before bed which was quite nice. How she approached it wasn't though. It was a version of the "hop on and be quick" with sex. She said, "Ok hurry up I'm tired you got your two minutes of snuggle time." So we curled up and the body to body connection felt great to me. Then she rolled over and said ok i'm going to sleep. So I rolled over too, then I hear her checking her facebook account, then sending a text back to her friend about running tomorrow morning. I said, "I thought you were tired?" She said, "I am, geez your annoying."

In other news, its been pretty good. We got into it at first on Friday morning but talked much more than fought. I expressed my feelings much better and we learned more about the other. Its kind of like, "who is this person I'm married to?" I expressed frustration that I was just about perfect all week and although things were pleasant for the most part she's still reluctant to work as hard at this as I am. She admitted both things to me. She simply said, "I'm not you ok? I can't shift gears and be a different person tomorrow like you can." This is true I have the ability to make a decision, come up with a plan, and execute that plan almost immediately. Things are much more convoluted I suppose for my wife. She could tell I was annoyed this morning and I am. I'm watching baby at 5 in the morning while she goes running with her friend. I don't mind the need for bonding with her friends and we did spend time last night together watching a movie on the couch last night. It is kind of more of a priorities thing. My priority is her and getting our marriage back on track, I make no bones about it and she knows that. She says she wants things better, but she still has time for a ton of activities that don't involve me. I'm not a jealous person but I suppose this is either IB, or me just not being a person who can fulfill her recreational companionship needs. I got bad knees I can't run and we have 3 children so even if I could it would be tough. What I struggle with this morning is being completely honest with how I feel so often. Isn't there a fine line about shutting up here and there and choosing your battles?


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Be honest with her. "I feel unimportant because you won't have sex with your husband because you are tired. However you can stay up and check your facebook and then get up early the next day to go running with your friend. And I did not sign up for a sexless marriage."

I'm just now having my morning coffee so I can't word it correctly but without DJing her you need to let her know that it is not okay to not take your needs as valid and try to meet them just because they are not her needs.

A lot of people try and meet the other persons needs that they think they should have. For example, a husband might lavish his wife with gifts. However she wants some communication from him. If he doesn�t spend some time verbally connecting with her, he could buy her a boat and it wouldn�t fill her #1 EN and he�s spinning a lot of wheels. And he�s prob. Fulfilling the ENs that he wants met rather than what she wants. Or he�s just stabbing at what he thinks she wants (I mean girls like gifts, right???). But then all we�re doing is throwing rocks at a target with our eyes closed and hoping we hit it.

After awhile of not getting our needs met, we get irritated and resentful. We feel neglected. We then want to stop doing for the other person.

You should ask your wife to post on here.


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[censored] I think I messed up. My wife went to run this morning early, I go upstairs to do laundry and notice my wife's underwear on the ground. She changed her underwear before going on a run? This is bizarre so I sent her a text about it. She got home and I'm feeling zero trust at this point so I told her that I'm not sure I trust her because she gives me no reason to. She freaked out, dropped an f-bomb in front of my kids and ran upstairs. I pursued her, she said don't talk to me, is freaking out, hopped in the car and drove away.


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Originally Posted by Hilltopper1972
It was a version of the "hop on and be quick" with sex. She said, "Ok hurry up I'm tired you got your two minutes of snuggle time."


This would insult me. She's giving you crumbs and you're taking them. Don't take the crumbs; a spouse deserves better. Let her know that you feel insulted by her 'offering' you two minutes.


Quote
She simply said, "I'm not you ok? I can't shift gears and be a different person tomorrow like you can."

This is simply refusing to work on herself and coping out. Be respectful but let her know this is just an excuse.

Quote
I'm watching baby at 5 in the morning while she goes running with her friend.

So don�t do this. It is not a need for to spend time with her friends away when she isn�t meeting any or very little UA time. The next time she wants to go for a run with her friend(s) and leave you with the kids, well, you have something else to do.


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It's time for you to put a keylogger on the computer and put some recording software on her phone.

Last edited by kilted_thrower; 04/16/11 09:52 AM.

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