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Originally Posted by MrNiceGuy
Hill ... lets stop referencing an affair. I believe that your wife is faithful ok? I am pretty sure we have that established now.

In regards to questioning her "orgasm" WHY would you do that? You have been working very hard at achieveing some intimacy and you threw your recent efforts away. You SHOULD have complimented her and or rewarded her .. not berate her! I would have said something along the lines of "WOW, Honey that was great! Your an AMAZING wife! I really enjoyed your affection! Did you enjoy it as much as I did? Was there anything I could have done better for you to make it more enjoyable?"

By complaining about her performance, your only going to make her want to do it even less! I know this becasue I did it too! I understand your concerns about her being not as tight as you might expect, but GEESH man .. she JUST had a baby! Her body will not be totally repaired yet! SLOW DOWN!

Did you offer her Oral sex? Reason I ask is because more often than not .. women do not orgasm by intercourse alone.

I used to act just as you .. and if i felt my wife was not enjoying it .. I would get upset. I felt guilty like i was using her. But after much negotiation (and many arguments about sex and performance) we came to an agreement that if the sex is just for me .. thats fine .. because she gets enjoyment from my pleasure and she told me that she would tell me (radical honesty) if she wants an orgasm too so I do not put any pressure on her to have one. Women dont (often) need it as much as men do so please understand that .. and STOP with the pressure for her orgasm. Let her get comfortable being intimate first ... you need to get into her MIND and bond emotionally. She made a GREAT effort and stepped out of her comfort zone to work on intimacy with you.

I would apologize to her ASAP ... tell her your sorry for complaining about her performance and making her think her efforts were not good enough. Reassure her that shes the only one for you and that you now believe her that your the only one for her. She did AWESOME as far as I am concerned and you need to thank her for that and tell her how much you appreciated it. Do something special for her.

MNG

Her performance was great and she DID orgasm. I in a horrifically paranoid state asked her if it was real and offended her deeply. When we do have sex my wife can orgasm pretty easily so I'm not worried. I have expressed that all the other things like oral sex and stuff that we used to do I'm TOTALLY into, but she isn't feeling good about it or her body after three kids I think. She did do awesome and I'm kicking myself for not leaving it at that. I love her so much and want to stop the LB's so that we can string together more days in a row. I feel like if we can go 1 day we can go 2, if we can go 2 we can go a week, if we can go a week, we can go a month or more. A week straight of no LBing and attempts to fill EN's and I'm fairly certain we'll be madly in love.


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Originally Posted by Hilltopper1972
Night was good, wife offered oral sex, which was great, that led to real sex which was great. Immediately afterwards she saw the "stewing" look on my face and asked me to tell her what bothered me. I told her that a certain something fit too easily into something else for not having had sex for so long and that I questioned whether her orgasm was real.

Your wife delivered your third child less than six months ago. Things will fit together differently FROM NOW ON!! Get over it.

Also, is your wife breastfeeding the new baby? If so, she may go through a time of being "touched out" just because of all the little people pulling at her right now.

I am not one of the MB experts. However, I AM an expert in what it's like to have a bunch of little kids. One of the most difficult times in my life was when my third child was born. It is very, very hard to have all those tiny little people needing a piece of you all day every day.

I noticed that the very first time you posted here was around the time your youngest baby was born. Is there any chance that your marital problems are because you are jealous of the time your wife is spending caring for your children? Are you helping her around the house and with the children? And if you are helping, what's your attitude about it?

P.S. Yes, you were a real jerk.


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Hill, can you control your paranoia? If your emotions get the best of you and keep you from working this logical plan here, you are not going to make it. Trust me.

Face the logic for a minute:

* Women can enjoy sex without orgasm
* Your wife can tell you if she's not enjoying sex and if she'd like you to do something different. You don't have to obsess over that. Let her worry about it.
* Men can enjoy sex without their wives orgasming
* YOUR WIFE IS WILLING TO HAVE SEX WITH YOU

Relax and have a good time. Trust your wife to let you know if there's a problem, and express your willingness to help her if she ever feels like there is one. Relax. Have a good time.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
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Originally Posted by Hilltopper1972
I told her that a certain something fit too easily into something else for not having had sex for so long

You know, I about died reading that sentence. It was embarrassing to read. Intensely personal. I'm sure your wife doesn't want your sexual difficulties broadcast here. And I'm sure it was indescribably horrible for her to hear it from you in person.

Quote
Immediately afterwards she saw the "stewing" look on my face

That was your first mistake.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

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Originally Posted by Hilltopper1972
I told her that a certain something fit too easily into something else for not having had sex for so long

Hill, do you want to follow the Marriage Builders plans to help your marriage get better?

If so, let me remind you on what the Marriage Builders plan is if you suspect an affair: snoop, find evidence, and do not confront until you have evidence. You've been told this a number of times, and yet you've already confronted your wife multiple times without evidence.

A different "fit" after pregnancy is not evidence.

We're talking evidence that would stand up in a court of law.

Do you want to follow the Marriage Builders plan from Dr. Harley, Hill? Or do you want to follow the hilltopper plan from hilltopper?

(Want to hear how badly things go when I follow the markos plan instead of the Marriage Builders plan from Dr. Harley? It's not a pretty sight!)


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
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Originally Posted by Kirby
Originally Posted by Hilltopper1972
Night was good, wife offered oral sex, which was great, that led to real sex which was great. Immediately afterwards she saw the "stewing" look on my face and asked me to tell her what bothered me. I told her that a certain something fit too easily into something else for not having had sex for so long and that I questioned whether her orgasm was real.

Your wife delivered your third child less than six months ago. Things will fit together differently FROM NOW ON!! Get over it.

Also, is your wife breastfeeding the new baby? If so, she may go through a time of being "touched out" just because of all the little people pulling at her right now.

I am not one of the MB experts. However, I AM an expert in what it's like to have a bunch of little kids. One of the most difficult times in my life was when my third child was born. It is very, very hard to have all those tiny little people needing a piece of you all day every day.

I noticed that the very first time you posted here was around the time your youngest baby was born. Is there any chance that your marital problems are because you are jealous of the time your wife is spending caring for your children? Are you helping her around the house and with the children? And if you are helping, what's your attitude about it?

P.S. Yes, you were a real jerk.

She had a c-section, and yes it could be possible that it came to a head once the third child was born. Problems have been there much longer than that though. Fights have become more frequent, sex less frequent, just kind of a general you do your thing and I'll do mine attitude developed. I stopped caring because despite my infantile desire to "fix things" it never mattered what I did. I got to the point where I couldn't control the outcome of the day, her feelings, our relationship, anything. I've learned a lot here on how to do things right and I'm working on it. I'm a hands on dad and my wife would let you know that not do I help with all three children and the house I have taken it to another level. I make breakfast, make lunches for school, take the oldest to school on the way to work, pick her up from cooking class, do the grocery shopping, make dinner every night, do the dishes, and hold the baby constantly(because I love to do so).


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Originally Posted by markos
Originally Posted by Hilltopper1972
I told her that a certain something fit too easily into something else for not having had sex for so long

You know, I about died reading that sentence. It was embarrassing to read. Intensely personal. I'm sure your wife doesn't want your sexual difficulties broadcast here. And I'm sure it was indescribably horrible for her to hear it from you in person.

Quote
Immediately afterwards she saw the "stewing" look on my face

That was your first mistake.

My wife requested that I tell you all verbatim what I said no doubt because it was preposterous in her eyes and assumed you'd all tell me I'm a jerk which I am. I don't know any of you however which is why I feel so free to speak my mind. I think that is in a way the beauty of learning in this format.


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Originally Posted by markos
Hill, can you control your paranoia? If your emotions get the best of you and keep you from working this logical plan here, you are not going to make it. Trust me.

Face the logic for a minute:

* Women can enjoy sex without orgasm
* Your wife can tell you if she's not enjoying sex and if she'd like you to do something different. You don't have to obsess over that. Let her worry about it.
* Men can enjoy sex without their wives orgasming
* YOUR WIFE IS WILLING TO HAVE SEX WITH YOU

Relax and have a good time. Trust your wife to let you know if there's a problem, and express your willingness to help her if she ever feels like there is one. Relax. Have a good time.

Something is off here with the sex part. The sex was great for both of us and my paranoia had little to do with the act itself. It was me reaching for things that just aren't there not expressing that any part about the sex at all performance or other existed.


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Originally Posted by markos
Originally Posted by Hilltopper1972
I told her that a certain something fit too easily into something else for not having had sex for so long

Hill, do you want to follow the Marriage Builders plans to help your marriage get better?

If so, let me remind you on what the Marriage Builders plan is if you suspect an affair: snoop, find evidence, and do not confront until you have evidence. You've been told this a number of times, and yet you've already confronted your wife multiple times without evidence.

A different "fit" after pregnancy is not evidence.

We're talking evidence that would stand up in a court of law.

Do you want to follow the Marriage Builders plan from Dr. Harley, Hill? Or do you want to follow the hilltopper plan from hilltopper?

(Want to hear how badly things go when I follow the markos plan instead of the Marriage Builders plan from Dr. Harley? It's not a pretty sight!)

Yes I want to follow the plan and it kills me when I stray from it. Worse than that its like a "reset" with the progress we've made. There are many things that are going right. My wife is reading the book, I've read two of the books. We come here and post and learn. We have the workbook. We are definitely more inclined to speak politely to each other and respectfully. We don't fight about anything other than our relationship. It is almost always me bringing something up, her firing back. I always pursue her to talk, I always want to fix things after a fight right away. I post here more frequently than anyone. My wife is a different person that I don't understand, go figure. I stare at her frequently with a perplexed look on my face because I just don't know what she wants. She's a walking contradiction at times and I don't know how to deal with it. I don't mean that as an insult, I mean I can't keep up with her mind. First it is A, then it switches to B a minute later. I hate having to "guess" at everything and hope that I hit the mark. When I do hit the mark it is great, we get each other and have a good time. When I hear a "sigh" that signifies that she is irritated with me. I get a lot of "sighs" folks. I just want to be confident in meeting my wife's needs and not walk on eggshells and feel clueless. By the way my wife is definitely from Venus, perhaps even another galaxy! smile


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Originally Posted by Hilltopper1972
Originally Posted by markos
Originally Posted by Hilltopper1972
I told her that a certain something fit too easily into something else for not having had sex for so long

You know, I about died reading that sentence. It was embarrassing to read. Intensely personal. I'm sure your wife doesn't want your sexual difficulties broadcast here. And I'm sure it was indescribably horrible for her to hear it from you in person.

Quote
Immediately afterwards she saw the "stewing" look on my face

That was your first mistake.

My wife requested that I tell you all verbatim what I said no doubt because it was preposterous in her eyes and assumed you'd all tell me I'm a jerk which I am. I don't know any of you however which is why I feel so free to speak my mind. I think that is in a way the beauty of learning in this format.

Good. At least she trusts us to kick your backside!

rotflmao


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

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Originally Posted by Hilltopper1972
Originally Posted by markos
Hill, can you control your paranoia? If your emotions get the best of you and keep you from working this logical plan here, you are not going to make it. Trust me.

Face the logic for a minute:

* Women can enjoy sex without orgasm
* Your wife can tell you if she's not enjoying sex and if she'd like you to do something different. You don't have to obsess over that. Let her worry about it.
* Men can enjoy sex without their wives orgasming
* YOUR WIFE IS WILLING TO HAVE SEX WITH YOU

Relax and have a good time. Trust your wife to let you know if there's a problem, and express your willingness to help her if she ever feels like there is one. Relax. Have a good time.

Something is off here with the sex part. The sex was great for both of us and my paranoia had little to do with the act itself. It was me reaching for things that just aren't there not expressing that any part about the sex at all performance or other existed.


There is also the fact that you have this unresolved issue, and post-coital you can be emotionally raw. SF requires BOTH SPOUSES to be emotionally vulnerable with each other. If our fight-or-flight response is up, the last thing our body wants to do is have sex (which seems counter, since we can get an "adrenaline rush" from sex).


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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Originally Posted by Hilltopper1972
My wife requested that I tell you all verbatim what I said no doubt because it was preposterous in her eyes and assumed you'd all tell me I'm a jerk which I am.

That is awesome, Hill! My wife has benefited here often in exactly the same way!

We can shoot straight with you and tell you things that your wife cannot.

And we will. Some of us, you can't stop us from shooting.


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By the way my wife said she is never coming back here which bothers me. I asked her the following but haven't heard back, "If you could once again give MB a chance, post in your thread, read the books, do the workbook, I think everything will be great. It is not a scam, it is totally legit, and these people have already helped our marriage more than you know." She also acknowledged she got the card I wrote her but nothing further, guess she is still mad at me.


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Originally Posted by Hilltopper1972
We are definitely more inclined to speak politely to each other and respectfully. We don't fight about anything other than our relationship. It is almost always me bringing something up, her firing back. I always pursue her to talk, I always want to fix things after a fight right away.

Hill, let's be honest, here:

After a fight, you'd like your wife to get over it. Who wouldn't?

If she's still feeling raw, and you've gotten over it, you'll be really tempted to try to set her straight. As little control as you have over your emotions, this desire is going to seep out of every crack, and she'll see it. It will not turn her on. It will disgust her. And rightly so, because who wants to live with a critic and a dictator?

Your desire to fix things sounds noble. Your desire to straighten her out doesn't sound so noble, does it?


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

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Originally Posted by Hilltopper1972
By the way my wife said she is never coming back here which bothers me.

I think she's said that about seven times already, and both of you just got here. Calm down and forget it.

Quote
She also acknowledged she got the card I wrote her but nothing further, guess she is still mad at me.

I'd still be mad, too.

So would you, probably.

Hill, you insulted her vagina.

A card does not make up for that. It is the START of making up for that. Show some follow through.

What have you done nice for her, lately?


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

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Originally Posted by Hilltopper1972
Yes I want to follow the plan and it kills me when I stray from it. Worse than that its like a "reset" with the progress we've made.

You are correct. This is the voice of reason. Listen to it.

Hill, you are a really emotional man.

If you want to have happy emotions in your life, you are going to have to let your reason and your logic guide you to do the things that will bring about happiness.

Focus on logical facts like this: "When I accuse my wife of things, I am being disrespectful. When I am disrespectful, I screw up all the progress that we have made and we both have to start over again. In pain."


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

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Originally Posted by markos
Originally Posted by Hilltopper1972
We are definitely more inclined to speak politely to each other and respectfully. We don't fight about anything other than our relationship. It is almost always me bringing something up, her firing back. I always pursue her to talk, I always want to fix things after a fight right away.

Hill, let's be honest, here:

After a fight, you'd like your wife to get over it. Who wouldn't?

If she's still feeling raw, and you've gotten over it, you'll be really tempted to try to set her straight. As little control as you have over your emotions, this desire is going to seep out of every crack, and she'll see it. It will not turn her on. It will disgust her. And rightly so, because who wants to live with a critic and a dictator?

Your desire to fix things sounds noble. Your desire to straighten her out doesn't sound so noble, does it?

I'll just chill then. I called her this morning and told her, "If you are feeling up to it, call me and we can chat more." She's obviously still mad and doesn't want to talk so I won't force the issue despite my desire to do just that. I'll get her something or do something nice on the way home.


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Originally Posted by markos
Hill, you insulted her vagina.

A card does not make up for that. It is the START of making up for that. Show some follow through.

For a touch of lightness; I don't even want to know what a card apologizing for that would look like...

skeptical


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Originally Posted by markos
Originally Posted by Hilltopper1972
We are definitely more inclined to speak politely to each other and respectfully. We don't fight about anything other than our relationship. It is almost always me bringing something up, her firing back. I always pursue her to talk, I always want to fix things after a fight right away.

Hill, let's be honest, here:

After a fight, you'd like your wife to get over it. Who wouldn't?

If she's still feeling raw, and you've gotten over it, you'll be really tempted to try to set her straight. As little control as you have over your emotions, this desire is going to seep out of every crack, and she'll see it. It will not turn her on. It will disgust her. And rightly so, because who wants to live with a critic and a dictator?

Your desire to fix things sounds noble. Your desire to straighten her out doesn't sound so noble, does it?

Hey, hill,

Do NOT go reading on your wife's thread, but I wanted to give you a safe little excerpt of what she just posted:

Quote
I just want him to move past all this and start working on our marriage.

She's referring to the affair accusations.

Can you do that? Can you shut up about it and just move on and do nice things to meet her emotional needs?


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

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I agree with you Markos! ... it is my belief as well that there is not affair going on.

Its time to drop the "A" word from your vocabulary and move on to being the best hubby you can be.

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