Hi Hold.

So I read your "either/or" statement. And, of course, I certainly am of the opinion that your wife's history of sexual abuse affects your sexual relationship today...

I often think in the same way of my husband's disinterest... Either he's simply not attracted to the real-life me (and only was in the early months when it was new), or he doesn't really love me, or living with a violent brother made his guard so thick that it's hard to be vulnerable with sex.

HOWEVER...

It is possible that none of our conclusions are correct... And then what do we do? What if our spouses are simply not really interested in sex? What if it actually has NOTHING TO DO WITH US?! What if it's nothing that can ever be fixed?! What if they really and truly do love us, and are as healthy as they can be--only they do not really care to have sex?

I think that is a far scarier reality to live with. I mean, if it's because of how I look, or something that I'm doing, at least there is a chance that one day, our sex life will improve. If there's something wrong with him, well, there is also a chance that one day he will find peace/healing and be more free to explore a positive sex life.

But if he is simply not interested. I mean, if this is all he's got, and I have no carrot big enough to dangle to interest him in engaging in SF... then what do we do?

That's more painful than whether or not she is rejecting you. SHe is NOT rejecting you, Hold. She knows you want sex, but she simply cannot compute how deeply her disinterest hurts you. She can't relate, because she does not think that way, feel that way, and even if you can communicate in a way so that she DOES understand, she will probably never change.

She could love you fiercely, and never have any more interest in sex than she does now. SHe could love you more than she has ever loved anyone in her life, and it simply never stimulate her sexually. Ever. And that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with you.

When we first got married, my husband was excited about sex. For about 3 months. Then I saw the decline--and I soon realized how he was able to stay celibate for so long. He simply doesn't feel desire with anything near the frequency that I do. I mean it can be months and months and months (we are, after all, averaging 1 time of intercourse every 2 1/2 years) before he is aroused. And he has no interest in arousing me in any way other than sex, and only when he is interested which, as I said is seldom.

I have spent years thinking that it was me. That I had done something to kill his interest in this area. Or there was some way he was wounded that inhibits him.

I didn't. There isn't.

He just isn't interested.

How do we live with that? How do we make our lives full and complete and wonderful when we are living with someone who chooses not to engage us sexually? I have a vivid and active imagination. I have so many ideas for things that would be fun and interesting... But even without doing anything extra, I am just happy to touch and be touched, and have it culminate in SF!

I do love my husband. But sometimes I hate him. And sometimes I deeply resent that I am in this kind of marriage--one where an important EN and aspect of our relationship is never going to be fulfilled. One that I was so looking forward to for so long.

However, you and I have a choice, my friend. And it isn't about pulling yourself up by your bootstraps. It's getting to the point where our life is full enough and happy enough so that we can live well without SF--at least until you (we?) have ended our marriages.

Does this make sense? I think I'm rambling. ANd daughter's bus will be here in a few minutes.

I would like to weigh in here. I had the low libido husband. He insisted it was "just the way he was" and had nothing to do with me.

1. It took me three years to believe him
2. Another few years to work the problem out
3. We had to both LOVE each other enough to fight thru it.

I feel that if a person marries you and claims to love you, they will and should do everything, whatever is needed....to try and make you happy.

If that thing that you need,, (which most married people need and expect) is SEX, then whatever they believe about it or whatever they hate about it, they must find a way to meet YOUR sexual needs. If they love you they will pleasure you, learn to pleasure you, take care of you in the sex department, and set aside what they want or do not want.

In addition, I know that a grown man who wants or has very little sex MUST KNOW HE IS NOT THE NORM> He must know from teaching marriage classes, or how other men talk about sex....or from being in the WORLD, that HE IS ABNORMAL for wanting sex only once every few years. He has to know this. If he does not know how abnormal he is then he is crazy.

So, this man, who is outside the norm, also HAS TO KNOW THAT HIS WIFE HAS NORMAL MARITAL SEXUAL NEEDS. He has to know it and he HAS TO ACTIVELY IGNORE HER in order to justify his extreme sexual neglect.

Our solution was this. My husband asks to make love whenever he wants "it" (and since we talked about having differing desires) then, he told me to ask WHENEVER I want sex and he will honor my request and respect and love me by giving me the pleasure and physical closeness I want right when I ask or very soon after, like the same day I ask.

I have learned new ways of asking for sex that allow some flexibility:

1. Honey how bout some loving? Tonight or tomorrow morning (gives him a choice)
2. Lets go upstairs and cuddle (can lead to sex or the cuddling is nice too)
3. Want some sex tomorrow morning? (specific time is good sometimes)
4. Feel like some sex? (now)
5. Feel like some sex? (now but could agree to postpone it)
6. We get to bed and sometimes we choose what we want to do there.

There are so many ways to ask for sex, also some non verbal ways. Once you start getting regular sex again, you can relax the schedule and rules and allow flexibility. Getting used to asking for sex is half of it. Having a loving spouse is the main thing.

It is only fair if one partner wants a huge plate of food and the other partner only wants a tiny plate of food, that both get to eat whatever they want. If one wants to paint the room blue and the other one wants to paint it red, then a compromise is in order.

Yet, sex is not food, sex is way more important than who paints what.... a certain color....and it takes a LOVING spouse to help the other spouse have the sex they want. So, both spouses have to determine what is going on and work together to solve the problem.

1. Both spouses, the High libido and Low libido spouse, must sit down and figure out exactly what is happening or not happening in the sexual area.

2. Then, both must tell the other one thier needs.

3. Then, both must sit down and honor the other one's needs

4. Then, a schedule must be worked out or another solution derived in order to meet BOTH PEOPLE"S NEEDS.

5. If one partner is asexual, this can be dealt with but must be faced.

6. IF both people do not face this issue, it will never get better.

7. These steps HAVE TO BE CONTINUED until the PROBLEM IS SOLVED OR A WORKOUT IS COMPLETED.


Can you, will you, be brave and persisitant enough to face this issue head on? Or will you continue to back down and live with constant sexual neglect?

I've been away from the boards for awhile, catching up, and am a little late to this convo...

I just want to say two things:
1. The above is not always true. May be true in this case, but not always.
2. The above explains the reaction I got when I first came to this board (hundreds of posts lost when the board crashed).

I say this because I married for 12 years a man I was never attracted to after 3 years of quasi-dating but basically being best friends. I never felt sexual attraction for my ex. I have been divorced for over a year, and separated two years. Even being single there are extremely few men I am actually attracted to. Again, not saying this is the case with tbmc but just for posterity I want to note that, yes, there are indeed some people married to folks they are not attracted to. Some they stopped being attracted to (affair, got fat, not meeting needs, etc) and some they just never were. Some of us just aren't wired normally, I guess.

DTC

Well, I took a business trip and ran into an old acquaintance (who happened to be one of those 7 guys).
....
He held me, and kissed me (first time I'd been kissed on the lips in 15 years), and he wanted more. But even though I'd felt attraction to him, and really enjoyed being held, there was no desire to "go there."

I've never felt more crazy in my life. Or disappointed. How can I have feelings for someone, and not want what the feelings are supposed to stand for? ... But I didn't want sex. All I wanted was to be held.

And I was not expecting that. Here is this gorgeous, fun, financially independent guy. Every bone in my body should have been fighting to resist him. But it wasn't.
...
I know I'm probably crazy and seriously need counseling.

No one here in my new home elicits that kind of reaction from me, but because of this experience I am confident that a respectful relationship built over time can generate those feelings. I guess I will just have to take things slow and find the right man.

PHOEN1X, I SO understand where you are coming from!!! Attractive doesn�t always equal arousal. And people don�t get that. I�ve been around some VERY handsome men, but nothing �down there�! Glad you and hubby are working on it.

I doubt it will last, but I�m going to enjoy it while it does!!!

I am very aware of my H preference for women with flat stomachs and I do not have one of those yet. The women in my family are all apples so that is a trait I will have to work harder for than normal diet and exercise can accomplish. I'll need to add things that target that area for me and cardio is really important because of my slower metabolism.

This is SO true for me as well!

I've noticed that a guy I wouldn�t have paid attention to before ends up getting a second look when I find out he thinks I�m beautiful or desirable. Weird.

I'm still getting to know the guy who is super physically attractive. But there's another guy from Sunday School who has surprised me by somehow becoming just as sexy. I don't get it, since he's not quite as good-looking as the other guy (great smile, average body, but still looks nice). But we've been hanging out for a few months as part of a group, and best I can figure out, my attraction to him is based on a combination of how nice he is to me, and how obviously he's into me.

It�s events like this that make me want to go back to school for a psych degree- I feel like I just don�t understand human behavior, especially when it comes to sexuality, not even my own!