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Originally Posted by CWMI
Gotta disagree, markos, based on what Steve Harley told us. Your spouse calls, you answer, even if it is just to say that now is not a good time. Ignoring your spouse because you are either too busy for them or just don't feel like dealing with them at the moment is murder on a marriage.

I think you should tell grace that, not Hill. There are things we can tell grace that Hill should not. It's not his job to tell her she's passive aggressive or decide that her behavior is the death knell of the marriage. Her lack of availability may be a problem, but if he starts disrespectfully judging her about it, that'll be an even bigger problem!

They are both here; if you see a problem in her behavior, go share it with her. smile


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I did. Yesterday. smile


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It may be wise to always respond to your spouse, and a great way to show your care, but Hilltopper has no control over whether or not his wife chooses to respond to him.

Assuming she's ignoring him, and treating her poorly because of that, is an attempt to control her. It is abusive.

It may be a totally innocent mistake on her part. Or, by not responding, she may be attempting to control her own DJs and AOs.

It would be good for him, at a later date when things are calm, to let her know "In the future, I would like it if you would respond and let me know you're busy." But she still has the right to say no.

CWMI, do you agree that you are responsible for doing what you should do even when your spouse is refusing to do what they should?


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Absolutely, did you read my whole post? I didn't let Hill off the hook about going off on her.


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Originally Posted by markos
It's not his job to tell her she's passive aggressive or decide that her behavior is the death knell of the marriage.

I had to come back to this. I agree that it's a bad idea for him to call her PA, but it IS his decision on whether her behavior is harming their marriage, and it IS his job to tell her so. He is currently doing this in a destructive manner, which needs to change, but it still is his job to let her know when she hurts him--complaining in marriage, RH, etc.


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Originally Posted by CWMI
Absolutely, did you read my whole post? I didn't let Hill off the hook about going off on her.

Can we talk language and context? I'm defensive because several people called me a jerk for hounding my wife. I know I do this which is why I sent her one text at 11am literally saying "are yo ok?" and left it at that. I didn't freak out because I didn't get an answer or contact her back in any way. She emailed me four hours later, not the other way around, with a response to something I didn't do(hound her). Only thing I can figure is she trolled my thread which was active of me seeking advice on what to do or how to behave if or when my wife responds to some things and completely ignores others. On top of not hounding her and in fact doing the opposite of giving her space to talk when she is ready, I get another 2-3 people berating me for insulting my wife's vagina, also out of context. There is a reason I began to feel the way I did and consider the possibility of an A, we've all made that clear. We had a long talk, I realized I have nothing to worry about and we moved on. Sincere apologies have flowed out my mouth for a day and a half. My wife needs time and I'm giving her all the time she needs.



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Originally Posted by kilted_thrower
Originally Posted by Hilltopper1972
Me:
I would appreciate you removing the 'tude. What do you mean? I sent you a text 4 hours ago asking if you were ok. What pressure are you referring to?

This. Removing the tude is really disrespectful. If my wife said something or texted me something like that, I would be very angry. She's still upset with you, slowly getting over it and you keep pushing this having to communicate about it right then.

Just stop. If she says she wants to talk about it right then, then drop it till you get home. You're hounding her. What if she wanted to talk about something and you absolutely did not right then. So she follows you from room to room saying "why won't you talk to me....talk to me!" You'd get really annoyed.

Again, when did I in any of this force conversation with my wife? She emailed, I replied, she emailed again, I replied. Please, please reread what transpired, maybe I didn't explain it well enough. I have had a history of "hounding" but I didn't yesterday. When a person tries to change his behavior, does exactly that, then gets advice repeatedly to stop hounding when he did nothing of the sort, it is confusing.


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Originally Posted by Hilltopper1972
There is a reason I began to feel the way I did and consider the possibility of an A,

Whoa! How did we get back to discussing that again?? I thought we were talking about text messages.

Quote
we've all made that clear. We had a long talk, I realized I have nothing to worry about and we moved on. Sincere apologies have flowed out my mouth for a day and a half. My wife needs time and I'm giving her all the time she needs.

Okay, what are you doing nice for her? Can you take this woman to dinner some time soon? She recently went out of her way to have sex with you to proclaim her love and commitment to you. What a great lady. What are you planning to do nice for her, next?


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

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Originally Posted by markos
Originally Posted by markos
Hey, hill,

Do NOT go reading on your wife's thread, but I wanted to give you a safe little excerpt of what she just posted:

Quote
I just want him to move past all this and start working on our marriage.

Also, note that she's saying this even dispite your completely insensitive comment last night.

You are one lucky man, Hill.

Thank that woman tonight for putting up with you, okay? Tell her, "Honey, I am so sorry. I know that I am not an easy man to live with. I don't know how you put up with me. I do not deserve you. Thank you for staying with me through all of this and for going so far last night to try to show your love for me."

Hill, did you go to your wife last night and say this? She needs to hear it. You have been difficult to live with, and she need to hear that you appreciate the fact that she is putting up with you.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
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Originally Posted by Hilltopper1972
Look I'm just trying to avoid LBs and meet ENs in my backyard

Hey, what ENs are you meeting, and how?


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Originally Posted by Hilltopper1972
Again, when did I in any of this force conversation with my wife? She emailed, I replied, she emailed again, I replied. Please, please reread what transpired, maybe I didn't explain it well enough. I have had a history of "hounding" but I didn't yesterday. When a person tries to change his behavior, does exactly that, then gets advice repeatedly to stop hounding when he did nothing of the sort, it is confusing.

And this is what scares me about you. Multiple people have read your exchange and told you that you hounded her.

Why don't you believe it?

Instead of being willing to accept the fact that you made a mistake, you argue and declare that what you did yesterday wasn't bad because you've done MUCH WORSE in the past.

In your posts on this thread you say that your wife "ignored" your first message. That's a lie. She took 4 hours to respond. That's not ignoring you.

You, sir, have the mindset of an abuser. I don't know if you have ever hit your wife in the past, but IMO, you have to potential to do so.

Abusers are: controlling, entitled, disrespectful of their partner, and manipulative. They feel justified and deny and minimize their abuse. They are usually insanely jealous and accuse their partner of having an affair for no reason.

You need help for YOUR issues before the marital problems can be addressed.





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Quote
I get another 2-3 people berating me for insulting my wife's vagina, also out of context.
There was nothing out of context about it. You were beyond insulting, but you are still trying to defend it as having been justified somehow. Not taking responsibility for yourself, your reactions, your responses, etc. Is not cleaning up your side of the street.

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She wasn't interested in talking with me, made it clear so no I didn't last night but I did with a sorry card in the morning, a sorry ecard a couple hours later. I sent her that text hoping it would solicit a response, didn't work. Got home but the silence was deafening so I grabbed some tea and read the book. This morning is mostly silence.


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It's probably time to quit saying sorry. All you're doing is reminding her of your insensitivity.

Look at the suggested message I gave you again, please. It's very important. Notice that it is not even about your clueless comment? It's not about that at all! It's a positive comment of admiration.

Listen, Hill, your wife has a tough job to put up with you. You have got to understand that and believe it, and you have got to let her know that you appreciate it and admire her for doing it.

I mean ... you subjected her to some pretty shocking and insensitive remarks when you went off on your flight of fancy. You reacted from emotion, impulsively, without focusing on a plan, without thinking about how it was going to affect her. You sound like the kind of guy who tends to verbally leap before you look. You can learn to calm that down, but until you do SHE'S GOT A BIG LOAD TO CARRY. Thank her for carrying it.

Last edited by markos; 04/21/11 09:57 AM. Reason: Oops, I didn't even reread what I wrote!

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Even if your wife is "not interested in talking," you can probably still walk up to her and say:

Quote
Honey, I am so sorry. I know that I am not an easy man to live with. I don't know how you put up with me. I do not deserve you. Thank you for staying with me through all of this and for going so far last night to try to show your love for me.

She will probably listen to that. She may not believe you really feel this way, which is fine. But she will probably listen, and she will probably start watching to see evidence if you really feel this way.

She needs to feel appreciated, Hill. What are you doing to accomplish that? What ENs are you meeting, and how? What are you doing nice for her, lately?


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
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So, let me see if this is straight

You send her a text, she doesn't respond.

4 hours later, she sends you an e-mail.

You respond, she responds, you respond, she responds.


And, again, you are baited into an argument, and YOU ENTER IT WILLINGLY.


In my reply, I highlighted in red where she said "We will talk when you get home."

redflag

Hello?

At that point, it's a simple response; "Ok, dear. I apologize, we will talk about it when you get home. How is your day going so far?"

Disengage the argument, change the subject... anything but continue it on. I don't care if she is baiting you into that conversation, when it is going to be a fight, you have the choice to not engage. So... DON'T.

The angry silent treatment is... a setup, and just as bad for
"punishing" or "controlling" behavior, though the ladies won't call out on that one if it's one of their own favorite tactics.

And there IS a difference between not conversing and the silent treatment.

So, in that sense, kudos to you for not falling into it. The silent treatment is often employed as a way to bait an argument.

"I'm mad, so I'm not going to talk to you! Hmph!"

Okay, then... I'm uh... gonna go read a book. Good luck with that not talking thing!


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

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Grace and Hilltopper, instead of spinning your wheels discussing a SPECIFIC conflict on this board, which is a distraction from learning the skills to resolve conflict on your own, please take the time instead to read this article by Dr Harley:

How to Create Your Own Plan to Resolve Conflicts and Restore Love to Your Marriage



"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by HoldHerHand
So, let me see if this is straight

You send her a text, she doesn't respond.

4 hours later, she sends you an e-mail.

You respond, she responds, you respond, she responds.


And, again, you are baited into an argument, and YOU ENTER IT WILLINGLY.


In my reply, I highlighted in red where she said "We will talk when you get home."

redflag

Hello?

At that point, it's a simple response; "Ok, dear. I apologize, we will talk about it when you get home. How is your day going so far?"

Disengage the argument, change the subject... anything but continue it on. I don't care if she is baiting you into that conversation, when it is going to be a fight, you have the choice to not engage. So... DON'T.

The angry silent treatment is... a setup, and just as bad for
"punishing" or "controlling" behavior, though the ladies won't call out on that one if it's one of their own favorite tactics.

And there IS a difference between not conversing and the silent treatment.

So, in that sense, kudos to you for not falling into it. The silent treatment is often employed as a way to bait an argument.

"I'm mad, so I'm not going to talk to you! Hmph!"

Okay, then... I'm uh... gonna go read a book. Good luck with that not talking thing!

A sucker is born every minute! Thanks for reminding me of this, I need to better more aware of what is occurring and avoid it at all costs. I think calling Steve for coaching is in our very near future, gotta pay the mortgage first, but then after that it should be a problem. How far out does he usually schedule calls? I also plan on listening to MB Radio to and from work each day to get some insight and focus on more of the positive stuff.


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Ok, I want to additionally back ML here;

It may be a good idea for you two to step back from the forums for a bit.

Let's not post conflicts any further.

This post is going on both of your threads.

Shopping list;

1 - 3 Ring Binder
1 - 3 Hole punch
2 - Highlighters

Make sure your printer has ink and paper.

Print the suggested articles, and read them separately, highlighter in hand. As you read through, highlight the portions you feel relevant to your marriage, and make marginal rotations.

After each of you have read the article and made your marks and notations, go over them together.

Then file the completed articles in your binder.

Your binder should also include;

The Policy of Undivided Attention Read it as the other articles, and sign off on it.

The Policy of Radical Honesty Again, read it, highlight and notate, each sign off. Include the sections on Emotional Honesty, Historical Honesty, Current Honesty, and Future Honesty.

The Policy of Joint Agreement(PoJA). Same as the other two policies.

Work no more than 1-2 articles, concepts, or policies per day, and follow it with pleasant UA time.

You might also include the article for each Emotional Need and each Love Buster.

You can do your emotional need and love buster questionnaires, and file them in your "marriage binder" as well.

Set an increment of time after which you will review or redo the questionnaires.

For instance, do them today, then again in one month, then three months after that.

As you eliminate Love Busters and meet each others Emotional Needs, you will see the answers on them evolve, and the order of importance of those needs may shift.

In the case of my FWW and I, when we first completed them in August 2010, SF was #3. It is no longer even in my top 5. Do note, however, that SF is one of the 4 intimate emotional needs to be met during UA time - which also includes Affection, Conversation, and Recreational Companionship.

Your posts from that point should begin to address how to integrate the concepts, and how to use those concepts to address conflicts.

Time to get to work!


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

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We got on his schedule within a couple of days, and we had a tight schedule to work in when we would both be home and kids wouldn't. I know you can't do the 'no kid' thing. Ours typically went where we would both be on the phone during the first ten minutes and the last ten minutes, and surprise, the calls often go much longer than expected. I don't think we had one in six months that went under 70 minutes. Steve is awesome in that he does not say, hey, time's up, gotta run, ttyl. He finishes. He's awesome smart and a NO BS kind of guy.


Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
(Oscar Wilde)
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