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Originally Posted by Possum
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I'm not feeling confident that my efforts will lead to a change in my wife wanting to be more affectionate with me.
I'm guessing she's not feeling any confidence that your efforts to fill her love bank are going to have any sticking power either.

Quote
Saturday night, made her a Buffalo Mozarella Napoleon, made it look amazing, sent her a picture of it to her phone because she was upstairs. She came down looked at it, said, "what are we gonna eat with it?" Not a wow or a thank you, she just wanted crackers or bread with it.
Do you want a ticker-tape parade? You've done a nice thing. Whoopee. I have no doubt she's done nice things for you in the past that have been unappreciated, as well. So now that you've done one (or two or three) it's supposed to be all hearts and roses and "gee what a swell guy"?

Unless you are a master actor (and based on what I've read, I really do not think you are inscrutable), your wife now knows that her reaction wasn't good enough for you.

Mozarella Napolean +1
Implicit Criticism -1

As a lovebank-drained wife, I'll tell you there's a strong undercurrent of "prove it". And when the balance is so low, the burden of proof is is awfully high.

Patience. Patience. Patience. Patience. Patience. Patience. Patience.

What implicit criticism? I didn't say a thing nor give any reaction at all to her at all, I simply pulled out the bread and crackers to enjoy the moment. Sorry, do you know my wife? Furthermore do you know that she feels that her reactions are not good enough for me? That was a pretty big assumption. There is a big difference between a reaction not good enough and no reaction at all, wouldn't you agree? And as a lovebank-drained husband the sense of urgency to create love in my marriage is very much present.


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I see you have the situation well under control and that my perspective is of no value to you. I wish you all the best in recovering your marriage.

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Originally Posted by markos
Hill, there are some great suggestions here for you to incorporate into your plan to make love bank deposits:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5010_qa.html

It doesn't have to be expensive fancy wine every night. The little things count, too.

Fantastic article and yes I specifically tell my wife I love her multiple times per day. I hug her, kiss her on the way out the door. I send her a text once per day saying, "Have I told you I love you today?" I do the dishes most nights, I bath the kids frequently so she doesn't have to. I may not have painted the appropriate picture as it pertains to affection. My affection for my wife is overflowing. I come from an affectionate family is this is just how I do things. From your perspective if all I do is one nice thing per day and expect some great reaction I totally understand where you are coming from, but this is not at all what is going on. I feel compelled to kiss and hug my wife and tell her I love her, not because a book told me too, but because I want to. Does that change things a bit more? If you show love and affection to someone all the time and you get none or very little in return how should I feel? My affection is not an act and it certainly isn't full of conditions that have to be met. My frustrations and concerns have one source, and that is to have my wife feel love for me and show that love.


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Hill,

Markos probably understands where you are coming from more than anyone else. He is a very emotional, affectionate man, and needs affection very much. Affection comes easy for him.

No one expects you to not feel hurt when your wife is not affectionate. It does hurt. I don't believe your affection is false or an act to get something.

BUT, when markos engaged in horrible LB toward me (especially the AOs and DJs), my desire to be affectionate with him disappeared. Why would I be affectionate to a man who hurt me? Your wife is withdrawn and non-affectionate because you have HURT her.

Keep doing what you're doing. It is getting through, although it doesn't look like it at this point.

Keep listening to Markos. He's been right where you are. Very recently, in fact.


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Originally Posted by Prisca
Hill,

Markos probably understands where you are coming from more than anyone else. He is a very emotional, affectionate man, and needs affection very much. Affection comes easy for him.

No one expects you to not feel hurt when your wife is not affectionate. It does hurt. I don't believe your affection is false or an act to get something.

BUT, when markos engaged in horrible LB toward me (especially the AOs and DJs), my desire to be affectionate with him disappeared. Why would I be affectionate to a man who hurt me? Your wife is withdrawn and non-affectionate because you have HURT her.

Keep doing what you're doing. It is getting through, although it doesn't look like it at this point.

Keep listening to Markos. He's been right where you are. Very recently, in fact.

I am listenting to Markos, he is my right hand advisor! smile I know you'll say it is because we are just different people, but why then do I not really withdraw when my wife AO's, SD's, and DJ's me? I mean I do for like an hour, but then I really don't enjoy the crunchy environment, and typically pursue her. She can withdraw for days if need be and it pains me.


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Hilltopper1972,

I was in your shoes a year ago after my husband's affair, I was in Plan A and was doing all the work, I did everything I could, I said what I wanted to say, I made our home a safe place for him to be........
I listened, I cooked for him I told him I understood his feelings and I was accountable for my part.......
I was lucky that he would allow me to hug him every day........he didn't hug back for a long time, but eventually I think he also looked forward to that physical contact between us, it felt right ...........
I would touch him when I walked by..........I would touch his arm when I spoke to him.........I would look right at him when I spoke, it took about 4 months of withdrawal from the OW and all my love deposits to turn things around, now it's him that is working harder than I am in this recovery..........It takes one persons strength and leadership in a situation like this that can turn things around, right now you have to love enough for the two of you.........
Go for it, that's what I did, I looked at it as an opportunity to have the relationship I wanted and I wasn't just lying down and letting it all fall apart.......
I said in the beginning that what the OW didn't take into account in her plan to steal my husband was ME!
All you need is a good solid plan and a lot of patience.........
All the time spent on being a better you and husband will pay off in the end, and look what you will have a woman that will be so madly in love with you. she will be the one making the moves and making you a happy man.....
It does hurt I know I felt that rejection a lot during my process as well........you are strong, keep an eye on the big picture and do what I did, just really enjoy the little bit of physcial you can the hugs, the words........the little touches.....that's good for now..........
Don't rush it, do it right this time..........
jessi


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Originally Posted by jessitaylor
Hilltopper1972,

I was in your shoes a year ago after my husband's affair, I was in Plan A and was doing all the work, I did everything I could, I said what I wanted to say, I made our home a safe place for him to be........
I listened, I cooked for him I told him I understood his feelings and I was accountable for my part.......
I was lucky that he would allow me to hug him every day........he didn't hug back for a long time, but eventually I think he also looked forward to that physical contact between us, it felt right ...........
I would touch him when I walked by..........I would touch his arm when I spoke to him.........I would look right at him when I spoke, it took about 4 months of withdrawal from the OW and all my love deposits to turn things around, now it's him that is working harder than I am in this recovery..........It takes one persons strength and leadership in a situation like this that can turn things around, right now you have to love enough for the two of you.........
Go for it, that's what I did, I looked at it as an opportunity to have the relationship I wanted and I wasn't just lying down and letting it all fall apart.......
I said in the beginning that what the OW didn't take into account in her plan to steal my husband was ME!
All you need is a good solid plan and a lot of patience.........
All the time spent on being a better you and husband will pay off in the end, and look what you will have a woman that will be so madly in love with you. she will be the one making the moves and making you a happy man.....
It does hurt I know I felt that rejection a lot during my process as well........you are strong, keep an eye on the big picture and do what I did, just really enjoy the little bit of physcial you can the hugs, the words........the little touches.....that's good for now..........
Don't rush it, do it right this time..........
jessi

Wow great story, I'm so happy for you and your H. I see a change in my wife which is good and I'm thrilled to get anything I can get. The "affection blow off" thing as I call it takes the wind out of my sails so easily and I shouldn't let it but I do. Thanks Jessi!


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Hill, are you doing the things that your wife said make the greatest impact on filling her LB$?

They should be well spelled out on her ENQ. If making her snacks isn't on there, you're wasting effort on things that don't fill her up.

Have you two reached an agreement on the 'making faces' issue? I don't know that her saying STOP and you saying OKAY is going to cut it, because I'm assuming that you were not intentionally making faces, it was more about not being aware you were. Ask her to tell you EVERY TIME you do it. Perhaps keep a pocket mirror handy, so you can immediately see what she sees...or have her snap a picture, lol. Oftentimes to change an annoying bad habit that is mindlessly done, we need the help of those we annoy.


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Originally Posted by CWMI
Hill, are you doing the things that your wife said make the greatest impact on filling her LB$?

They should be well spelled out on her ENQ. If making her snacks isn't on there, you're wasting effort on things that don't fill her up.

Have you two reached an agreement on the 'making faces' issue? I don't know that her saying STOP and you saying OKAY is going to cut it, because I'm assuming that you were not intentionally making faces, it was more about not being aware you were. Ask her to tell you EVERY TIME you do it. Perhaps keep a pocket mirror handy, so you can immediately see what she sees...or have her snap a picture, lol. Oftentimes to change an annoying bad habit that is mindlessly done, we need the help of those we annoy.

I have her list and I've implemented about half of the 13 things she likes. I have plans for some more of the expensive one's next month, so for now just the little things. Its bizarre, she told me what she likes, I do those things, then she behaves indifferent to it anyways? Oh well, I'll guess I'll just have to trust it is doing its job.

We agreed that there is no place for faces in our relationship and it was a massive LB each time I did it. They were not intentional and I'm so glad she figured it out because she could never explain what I did that annoyed her. I stopped the moment she told me, haven't done it since. I'll slip I'm sure here and there but the POJA is "NO FACES!"


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Hilltopper,

I am really impressed at your progress. One day at a time! Your doing great! I know it may seem difficult for the first while .. and that your wifes response is not as you hope, but keep working at it .. and eventually she will come around. Her love bank for you is obviously still in the red, but each deposit brings you that much more out of debt.

Sorry I havent been around that much. I needed to step back as I didnt think my advise was being much help. It was similar to what alot of the others who came in after me .. but i think they worded it far better than I did. I realized my own tactics that i used on my wife was not helping you and from that I was stuck on how to continue helping you. I am also very new at advice giving since it was not that long ago i was in your shoes.

How was your easter? Has your wife made any effort or any noticiable changes? even if very small ones? Any progress is great progress.

Keep up the good work! I will chime in ocassionaly if i feel I may have more to contribute. But as of now I think your on the right track after we slapped you around a bit. smile

MNG

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Originally Posted by MrNiceGuy
Hilltopper,

I am really impressed at your progress. One day at a time! Your doing great! I know it may seem difficult for the first while .. and that your wifes response is not as you hope, but keep working at it .. and eventually she will come around. Her love bank for you is obviously still in the red, but each deposit brings you that much more out of debt.

Sorry I havent been around that much. I needed to step back as I didnt think my advise was being much help. It was similar to what alot of the others who came in after me .. but i think they worded it far better than I did. I realized my own tactics that i used on my wife was not helping you and from that I was stuck on how to continue helping you. I am also very new at advice giving since it was not that long ago i was in your shoes.

How was your easter? Has your wife made any effort or any noticiable changes? even if very small ones? Any progress is great progress.

Keep up the good work! I will chime in ocassionaly if i feel I may have more to contribute. But as of now I think your on the right track after we slapped you around a bit. smile

MNG

Thanks for the note. It got heated in this thread as well as my wifes. I think that was part of the process. I have a hard time not expressing my frustration at some of the posters that came here, made up their mind about who I was and what I was all about, and clearly offered nothing of value, just hate. You were not one of those so don't feel bad. My wife and I are doing amazing actually, last night was the best night in a long, long time. We stayed up till midnight just hanging out, talking, and having fun against our better judgement. We've figured out a tremendous amount of stuff in a very short period of time about each other and I've seen dramatic changes in her almost daily. This thread may not be as juicy as it once was, but hey, what needed to happen is happening with my wife and I and it feels good. Thanks again for everything.


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Originally Posted by Hilltopper1972
I have her list and I've implemented about half of the 13 things she likes. I have plans for some more of the expensive one's next month, so for now just the little things. Its bizarre, she told me what she likes, I do those things, then she behaves indifferent to it anyways? Oh well, I'll guess I'll just have to trust it is doing its job.

We agreed that there is no place for faces in our relationship and it was a massive LB each time I did it. They were not intentional and I'm so glad she figured it out because she could never explain what I did that annoyed her. I stopped the moment she told me, haven't done it since. I'll slip I'm sure here and there but the POJA is "NO FACES!"

I don't know if that's a woman thing, or whatever Hill. The ladies could answer that.

But, I can tell you that my wife is constantly trying to read my face, or more importantly, my eyes. The dang things give me away - they change color with my mood. Makes sense when you consider thing like blood flow and muscular contraction, or dilation etc effecting the refraction of light in the iris.

Because of this, she totally hates when I wear sunglasses.

Part of it is that she is holding me accountable to be emotionally honest.

You have a feeling, your body reacts, and you make a face, or an expression hits your eyes, and they KNOW "that look." After years of courtship and marriage, they learn to read your face, read your eyes.

Anyway, it's awesome that you guys listed out ideas (for each other, right? you gave her a list, too?). The article here is great, but it's like training wheels. Eventually you are going to have to ride on your own, and having her TELL you how she likes her needs to be met is paramount. Her list represents the links in the bike chain, and without those links you will pedal and go nowhere.

Keep it up!


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Your very welcome ... I take it that you guys have progressed from withdrawl... then you moved into conflict (hence the heated 2 threads) then your wife finally joined you in conflict and now your bobbing in and out of intimacy?

I am so glad things are going well for you. Your threads are better off to be less "juicy" becasue that will mean that your gaining ground towards intimacy! Once both spouses are on board it almost takes no time at all .. and once its fully implimented and new habits develop, you guys will be madly in love again and will hardly be able to keep your hands off eachother. I am just glad it didnt take as long for you as it did my wife to come around for me. Now that you got 3 kids have you considered a vasectomy? THAT will really help in the intimacy department especially since you wouldnt have to worry about getting your wife preggo again! THat was one of the best things I ever did for my wife. Did it on a friday ... sat on a bag of frozen peas over the weekend. Wife waited on me for entire weekend and then went back to work on monday. IF your worried about it .. the anticipation was FAR worse than the procedure. If not .. o well . just thought I would throw that in there.

Your doing great Hilltopper. Hopefully your wife will update her thread so we will know how shes doing from her side of the street.

MNG

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Originally Posted by HoldHerHand
Originally Posted by Hilltopper1972
I have her list and I've implemented about half of the 13 things she likes. I have plans for some more of the expensive one's next month, so for now just the little things. Its bizarre, she told me what she likes, I do those things, then she behaves indifferent to it anyways? Oh well, I'll guess I'll just have to trust it is doing its job.

We agreed that there is no place for faces in our relationship and it was a massive LB each time I did it. They were not intentional and I'm so glad she figured it out because she could never explain what I did that annoyed her. I stopped the moment she told me, haven't done it since. I'll slip I'm sure here and there but the POJA is "NO FACES!"

I don't know if that's a woman thing, or whatever Hill. The ladies could answer that.

But, I can tell you that my wife is constantly trying to read my face, or more importantly, my eyes. The dang things give me away - they change color with my mood. Makes sense when you consider thing like blood flow and muscular contraction, or dilation etc effecting the refraction of light in the iris.

Because of this, she totally hates when I wear sunglasses.

Part of it is that she is holding me accountable to be emotionally honest.

You have a feeling, your body reacts, and you make a face, or an expression hits your eyes, and they KNOW "that look." After years of courtship and marriage, they learn to read your face, read your eyes.

Anyway, it's awesome that you guys listed out ideas (for each other, right? you gave her a list, too?). The article here is great, but it's like training wheels. Eventually you are going to have to ride on your own, and having her TELL you how she likes her needs to be met is paramount. Her list represents the links in the bike chain, and without those links you will pedal and go nowhere.

Keep it up!

I don't think it is a woman-thing, I think it is a "me thing". I have been told at the office by some staff that occasionally I make them "feel stupid" at times. I never could figure out why, because verbally I don't do it, it is the facial expressions I think. I wear my heart on my sleeve even at work and if I'm annoyed by a question that is very elementary I tend to express a look of annoyance which is wrong. I'm trying to use some of the same MB principles at the office too.

We both have a list and are trying to implement them as best we can to start and I assume this will get easier. I'm working on trying to be more thoughtful and think about things before doing them rather than just going through the motions. An example would be picking out a nice card versus picking out a card that has a special meaning for the two of us. She also likes surprises and I assume this will get easier. I have a lack of confidence in doing romantic things for my wife right now. This perpetuates the problem so I'm making an effort to take the time to think things through and listen carefully to what she is telling me, then react accordingly. I'm getting smarter and have a few tricks up my sleeve which I'll keep to myself. smile


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Originally Posted by MrNiceGuy
Your very welcome ... I take it that you guys have progressed from withdrawl... then you moved into conflict (hence the heated 2 threads) then your wife finally joined you in conflict and now your bobbing in and out of intimacy?

I am so glad things are going well for you. Your threads are better off to be less "juicy" becasue that will mean that your gaining ground towards intimacy! Once both spouses are on board it almost takes no time at all .. and once its fully implimented and new habits develop, you guys will be madly in love again and will hardly be able to keep your hands off eachother. I am just glad it didnt take as long for you as it did my wife to come around for me. Now that you got 3 kids have you considered a vasectomy? THAT will really help in the intimacy department especially since you wouldnt have to worry about getting your wife preggo again! THat was one of the best things I ever did for my wife. Did it on a friday ... sat on a bag of frozen peas over the weekend. Wife waited on me for entire weekend and then went back to work on monday. IF your worried about it .. the anticipation was FAR worse than the procedure. If not .. o well . just thought I would throw that in there.

Your doing great Hilltopper. Hopefully your wife will update her thread so we will know how shes doing from her side of the street.

MNG

Yes vasectomy is in the works actually, thanks for the tip. In regards to my wife updated her thread, I hope she does too, I noticed it isn't even on page one anymore. I'm making sure that our little bit of success doesn't make me work less hard at this. I want to be diligent in coming here daily if possible and learning and in the future even helping. The way I see things is that I can get my wife to love me again which is the ultimate goal, or I can try and achieve the greatest marriage on the planet which is even better! Shoot for the stars!


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Don't worry too much about her posting. If she is doing the things she needs to be doing, it's all well and good.

Some people just aren't forum people, and that's OK.


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Originally Posted by HoldHerHand
Don't worry too much about her posting. If she is doing the things she needs to be doing, it's all well and good.

Some people just aren't forum people, and that's OK.

Yep, you are totally right.


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Originally Posted by Hilltopper1972
Originally Posted by HoldHerHand
Don't worry too much about her posting. If she is doing the things she needs to be doing, it's all well and good.

Some people just aren't forum people, and that's OK.

Yep, you are totally right.

Hill, a little reading on the pleasure of delayed gratification;

http://artofmanliness.com/2011/03/06/delayed-gratification/


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Vasectomy was a great decision for me. Easiest 45 minutes of my life and then a few days of sitting on the couch and drinking beer.


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Originally Posted by kilted_thrower
Vasectomy was a great decision for me. Easiest 45 minutes of my life and then a few days of sitting on the couch and drinking beer.

Did wife agree to the vasectomy AND beer drinking? Another fantastic night of avoiding the LB's and meeting each other's needs. It led to some awesome SF and she initiated. What a fun night I must say. I got her some running related stuff on the way home and support her running as long as we agree when and where. I walked in to a perfectly cooked turkey my wife made me for dinner. Kids to bed, more UA, and affection. She mentioned that we can "go to the gym together" after work so I think this is a POJA on working out together, but I must ask because I'm not sure. She had mentioned that we workout different things and I'm aware of that so I'm gonna see if we can agree on what and I don't want her to feel awkward in doing so. The only thing going bad in our lives is staying up WAY too late and being exhausted the next day.


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