Originally Posted by Prisca
I am running on very low sleep, so forgive me if I ramble tonight.

Have the two of you filled out your ENQs yet? What needs has she placed as the top 5 or 6?

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Nothing to serious, just regrouping myself to make good decisions when I feel a desire for EN's to be met. My wife has responded well to receiving my affection better, hugging me back when I hug her, etc. I feel good when I hug/kiss her so I do it frequently. I still struggle with the lack of initiated affection, SF, etc on her part.

This is good news, Hill. She is responding to you.
If it would mean a lot to you for her to initiate some of these things on occasion, then put it on your ENQ.
Examples:
"I like it when you come up behind me and hug me out of the blue."
"I love it when you grab my arm and kiss me as we pass each other in the hall."

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There is this lingering feeling however inside me that is related to her "not needing" or "desiring" affection or SF as much as I do. I would describe it as it not really occurring to her. The more I initiate affection, the more she doesn't have to if that makes sense.
Be very, very careful here. You are bordering on a DJ.
Remember, she is a different person, and it's perfectly okay if her need for affection or SF is different than yours.

Markos has a higher need for physical affection than I do. He wants to be touched and held, hugged and kissed. I prefer he show me affection by bringing me small gifts. We're different than the typical male/female examples. But it's not unheard of for a woman to not desire physical affection.

But it's very likely that the reason her desire for these things seems low is because she's in withdrawal.
Dr. Harley has said that when a person's top emotional needs are NOT the 4 intimate needs (conversation, affection, recreational companionship and SF), and instead they desire domestic support or family commitment as their top needs, it is a sign that this person is in withdrawal.

What needs has she placed at the top of her ENQ?

Originally Posted by Hilltopper1972
1. Is it possible my displays of affection to my wife, kisses, hugs, etc are perceived by her as a sign that I want SF? If that is the case are my attempts actually not causing her LB to fill, but rather removing deposits? I have to think the answer is no, but I still have to ask the question.
Possible, but she doesn't seem to sound like she has a sexual aversion. It really sounds like she just needs time for her Love Bank to fill up.

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2. If one of my wife's ENs is not Affection, how then does the relationship between affection and SF change in our case? If you can't have SF without affection, but yet my wife is ok without me being affectionate towards her, then how does SF happen? What does she need to "feel" like being intimate with me?

She needs to feel in love. She will feel in love if you keep the UA up, and fill that time with the 4 intimate EN.

I suggest you read Chapter 5, on conversation.

Originally Posted by Dr. Harley, HNHN pg 70
I studied this very question by investigating couples who were in love. How much time did they give each other? I studied couples who were dating, couples who had maintained romantic love while married, and couples having affairs. In all of these cases, I found that those who maintained their love for each other schedules time to be together almost every day. While their daily time together varried, the time they spent each week was almost always over fifteen hours. During that time they had each other's undivided attention, and they used most of it to engage in intimate conversation.

Based on these findings, and overwhelming evidence I've acquired since then, I tell couples that if they want to maintain their love for each other, they should learn to do what those in love are doing -- set aside at least fifteen hours a week for undivided attention, where one of the primary purposes is to engage in intimate conversation.

Originally Posted by Dr. Harley, HNHN pg 71
First, conversation is an integral part of how all of the other important emotional needs are met.

Thanks Pricsa. Great advice to be followed, which brings me to an issue that is occurring I believe. Both Grace and I are not implementing the advice and program very well for one reason or another. I can't speak for her, but for me at least there are two things that are causing me to be discouraged in implementing this program:

1. I get discouraged. I get shot down once, try it again, shot down twice, then tend to lose confidence in asking again. Intimate conversation is extremely important. I began the process of asking my wife questions about a week ago. "How do you feel about the winner of Survivor?" "How do you feel about trying to get you back to the gym on a regular basis?" "How was it when you were young going to school with your friends?" The answers are usually one word or one sentence. I'm not having success and getting any kind of a conversation going with my wife and it is discouraging.

2. Push back/postponement: My wife is pushing off implementing some of the MB principles, particularly child care. I asked her this morning is we could go on a date night this week. She said, "we'll see". I asked her also if we could write down things that make us happy so the other person can just automatically do them. The example I used was coffee. I asked her if she enjoyed me making coffee for her each morning. She said, "well I guess so, but it really just depends, sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't." If I knew she like coffee, I'd do it every morning, but since she hasn't told me, and I can't tell by her reactions I just don't know.

Spending UA time with each other is critical, but so is communication. She asked for me to always ask her if I need clarification about something. I kid you not, I need clarification about 50% of everything she says or asks of me. This tells me there has to be something else involved here. "Would you like to go on a date with me this week?" It would make it easier if she said something like, "That would be great! Let me call my Dad and I'll see if he can watch the kids Wednesday!" When I get the answer similar to, "we'll see" it not only is confusing but discouraging. I don't really feel like she wants to go on a date with me when I feel the push back/postpone type of answers.

What I'd really like is ideas on how to begin faithfully implementing this program on both our sides. BTW, read first six chapters of HNHN yesterday as fast as I could. Lot of great info in there, very different than LB or RL. I learned that affairs happen frequently when ENs are not being met by their spouse. I also learned that men need sex(A lot), so I don't feel so bad about myself getting discouraged about feeling that way. I'm still afraid to ask for SF, and I'm not getting any better at it. I learned that most women need affection to have sex. I also believe the affection I've been giving my wife is the wrong kind a lot of the time. No sexual undertones from here on out. I'm gonna focus on being thoughtful, loving, caring, etc.

Married 15 years
12 y/o DD
10 y/o DS
6 y/o DD