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Originally Posted by MrNiceGuy
Originally Posted by Hilltopper1972
Originally Posted by MrNiceGuy
Well .. I might do that .. but one thing I would like to chime in on was a few (many) pages back you mentioned a vasectomy. I would go get that done ... possibly your wife is nervous about getting preggo again and condoms/birth control are a bit of a turn off for her. Its ALOT easier to SF when you know your not having any more kids and you have made sure (by vasectomy) that the chances are NULL to her getting preggo again. ONce you do this .. you will find that your sex will be alot more spntaneous becasue you dont have to go "do you got protection hun?" and waste those few extra moments to "put one on" in the heat of the moment ... its alot nicer to just not have to stop and lose your "momentum".

Get er done ... asap if you dont plan on any more kids ... you wife will love you for it! .. do it on a friday (mid afternoon) then sit on a bag of frozen veggies for the weekend and youll be back to work on monday NP. Then a week from then you'll be good to go! And that week off you give your wife (unless you plan it around her period) will give your wife some "relief of pressure" until you guys are in tune again.

MNG

Yep this is our plan! By the way I bought a bottle of Maca Root the other day. My wife isn't down with taking some yet, but it appears that it is great for both men and women. Do you take it? If so what changes have you seen in yourself? I was specifically interested in it effects on skin(mine is very dry) and adrenal glands. Energy is a big problem for me.

Yes I do take it. What i noticed was I had more energy at the end of the day. . my recovery time when i work out is reduced by alot .. and anxiety and stress is reduced a signifigantly and my drive for sex is not as strong and demanding as it would be otherwise. Which is probably due to possibly having too much testosterone .. and the maca leveled me off to some degree... now that doesnt mean I cant be persuaded to sex ... or that I dont want it .. but the "urge" is no longer as strong or taxing on my mind.

p.s. Maca takes about 5 days of full dosage to notice its effects. I take 1/2 the dosage in the morning .. and the other 1/2 at lunch time. On Fridays I would take my dosage late in the afternoon so i have TONS of energy on friday evenings! .. also its a cycle .. 3 weeks on .. and one week off. MY wife stops maca when her period starts and I stop aswell .. we start and stop together.

MNG

This will be day six with the Maca Root. Dosage is 3 capsules a day, so I do two with breakfast, then one with lunch to make sure I don't desire to stay up too late. Here's what I notice:

1. Energy: I used to go from coffee to diet coke to not have "drowsy eyes" throughout most days. I've noticed my diet coke sits on my desk more than before and I'm quite alert even when I've had a poor night of sleep.

2. Anxiety: I'm going through some gnarly stuff at work with my business partner. It is at the attorney stage already. I don't handle conflict well, but I feel fairly cool and calm about the whole thing, so I think there is something there.

No other noticeable effects yet but I'm gonna keep track of before and after best I can. All in all, I'm feeling pretty good about it.


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Thats great HIll .. that your experiencing some benefits! I knew you would. Part of it i think is becasue the food we eat doesnt supply all the proper nutrients for our endrocine system (our horomones glands) and due to stresses in life many of them get exhausted and dont replenish very well. Maca, i believe does a detox of them .. and refreshes them up back to a normal state after the 5 day period (or less depending on the person) hence the feeling of lower stress levels .. and increased energy.

How was your weekend Hill? Mine sucked! I got guilted into helping some family members with some yard work that took up almost my entire Saturday and then had to spend Sunday afternoon fixing 2 PCs for a friend (he paid me tho). My wife was not Enthusiastic about helping my family with the yard work .. and it created some tension between wife and I and the other family memebers. I was reluctant to help aswell since they never do anyhting for us .. but htought maybe if i stepped it up for them they might want to help us with our kids some more to give us time to go out, but its probably wasted effort on our part since we are having inlaw issues with them .. and both my wife and I can plainly see marrital issues between my dad and his commonlaw GF of 20 years, but they ignore our advice since they think htye are older and wiser and most likely figure that they know more than we do. We brought up the fact of "look how we used to be and look at your own relationship, dont you wana be in love" they shrugged and changed topic. Jealous maybe? Dunno .. but my side of the family has some serious issues and becasue of that .. they have been ignoring their grandkids ... and casusing in family drama similar to what my wife and I did many months back.

This past 2 weeks, UA time has been next to none. Sure can feel its effects. Wife and I POJA'd that all this week we are not going to cater to any more family so we can catch up on UA and possibly even plan a date night if we can.

Anyhow .. enough about me .. this is your thread. Hope your weekend was better than mine! Mine went way too fast.

MNG


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Originally Posted by MrNiceGuy
Thats great HIll .. that your experiencing some benefits! I knew you would. Part of it i think is becasue the food we eat doesnt supply all the proper nutrients for our endrocine system (our horomones glands) and due to stresses in life many of them get exhausted and dont replenish very well. Maca, i believe does a detox of them .. and refreshes them up back to a normal state after the 5 day period (or less depending on the person) hence the feeling of lower stress levels .. and increased energy.

How was your weekend Hill? Mine sucked! I got guilted into helping some family members with some yard work that took up almost my entire Saturday and then had to spend Sunday afternoon fixing 2 PCs for a friend (he paid me tho). My wife was not Enthusiastic about helping my family with the yard work .. and it created some tension between wife and I and the other family memebers. I was reluctant to help aswell since they never do anyhting for us .. but htought maybe if i stepped it up for them they might want to help us with our kids some more to give us time to go out, but its probably wasted effort on our part since we are having inlaw issues with them .. and both my wife and I can plainly see marrital issues between my dad and his commonlaw GF of 20 years, but they ignore our advice since they think htye are older and wiser and most likely figure that they know more than we do. We brought up the fact of "look how we used to be and look at your own relationship, dont you wana be in love" they shrugged and changed topic. Jealous maybe? Dunno .. but my side of the family has some serious issues and becasue of that .. they have been ignoring their grandkids ... and casusing in family drama similar to what my wife and I did many months back.

This past 2 weeks, UA time has been next to none. Sure can feel its effects. Wife and I POJA'd that all this week we are not going to cater to any more family so we can catch up on UA and possibly even plan a date night if we can.

Anyhow .. enough about me .. this is your thread. Hope your weekend was better than mine! Mine went way too fast.

MNG

My wife and I are different people during TRUE UA time to be honest. We are the people we both fell in love with 10 years ago. This in a nut shell explains why Dr H says that UA time is the single most important thing struggling marriage partners can focus on.

Anways, Friday was awkward, we spent some talking, but we were still "getting over" issues from earlier in the day. Saturday was spectacular, my wife was so fun to be around throughout the day and on our date. Sunday was decent, couple of rough spots, followed by a strange good/bad finish to the night which I won't get into. I have some legal issues at work with my business partner, my wife has been in constant contact with me, supporting me, and wanting to know what is going on. That feels good when she does that.


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Originally Posted by Hilltopper1972
My wife and I are different people during TRUE UA time to be honest. We are the people we both fell in love with 10 years ago. This in a nut shell explains why Dr H says that UA time is the single most important thing struggling marriage partners can focus on.

Hooray! hurray You've got a handle on the most important concept around here. smile

Quote
Sunday was decent, couple of rough spots, followed by a strange good/bad finish to the night which I won't get into.

I'm betting there were some disrespectful judgments, selfish demands, or angry outbursts involved.

Quote
I have some legal issues at work with my business partner, my wife has been in constant contact with me, supporting me, and wanting to know what is going on. That feels good when she does that.

It sounds like you being open and honest about this is a great chance to meet an emotional need. smile


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Originally Posted by markos
Originally Posted by Hilltopper1972
My wife and I are different people during TRUE UA time to be honest. We are the people we both fell in love with 10 years ago. This in a nut shell explains why Dr H says that UA time is the single most important thing struggling marriage partners can focus on.

Hooray! hurray You've got a handle on the most important concept around here. smile

Quote
Sunday was decent, couple of rough spots, followed by a strange good/bad finish to the night which I won't get into.

I'm betting there were some disrespectful judgments, selfish demands, or angry outbursts involved.

Quote
I have some legal issues at work with my business partner, my wife has been in constant contact with me, supporting me, and wanting to know what is going on. That feels good when she does that.

It sounds like you being open and honest about this is a great chance to meet an emotional need. smile

Yep honesty is key for my wife, one her most important ENs as is Financial Support, so involving her in legal issues with my business partner is very, very important to her.


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Question: If Grace is reluctant to spend time with your mother, what should you do?


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Originally Posted by Prisca
Question: If Grace is reluctant to spend time with your mother, what should you do?

Nothing. Or assist her in declining the offer which I have many, many times. Last time they hung out my wife planned to have lunch with her. So they agreed on some place and date, etc. I recall my wife telling me she didn't want to go the day of even though she committed. I've always been of the train of thought that people that make commitments should follow through on them. I told her that. It is the same thing with our friends. My wife frequently commits to something for us, then tells me she doesn't want to go. Its not a huge deal, but gets my wife into trouble because she has a hard time saying "no" to people. She says "yes", then expresses to me that she wishes she would have said "no" the first time around. I even told her that no matter who it is, use me as the excuse as to why she doesn't want to go anywhere because this is hard for her to do so. I've offered to send a text for her from my phone, or call someone and politely decline that we have plans already, etc. She has refused my help with this.

Ultimately my wife has problems with my Mom and two sisters. I can't help her repair this, I can only support her. I typically don't like to discuss the "who's fault is it" because I'm compromised on what I believe to be true vs supporting my wife. I won't lie to my wife if she asks me what I believe to be true about the situation. Typically it is not what she wants to hear(I guess), and it leads to conflict between us. All I can do is empathize with how hard the conflict she has is, let her know that I understand her point of view, and let her know that she is my number one priority which I've done many times. If my belief it is the courteous and moral thing to do to honor our commitments with others is damaging to my marriage then I will cease suggesting to my wife that will follow through again.


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Ultimately my wife has problems with my Mom and two sisters. I can't help her repair this, I can only support her. I typically don't like to discuss the "who's fault is it" because I'm compromised on what I believe to be true vs supporting my wife.


Calling your mother and talking(venting) about your wife and/or marriage does not support your wife and typically will fan the flames of their conflict.

If I remember correctly, you posted previously about grace wanting to call your parents to get their "help" with your marriage/you and you were far from happy about this. Why was it okay for you to "drag" your mother into your marriage but not okay for grace?

For me, it is always helpful to ask myself, "Would I want my spouse to do this?" If the answer is no...then don't do it!

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Originally Posted by rubydoo
Quote
Ultimately my wife has problems with my Mom and two sisters. I can't help her repair this, I can only support her. I typically don't like to discuss the "who's fault is it" because I'm compromised on what I believe to be true vs supporting my wife.


Calling your mother and talking(venting) about your wife and/or marriage does not support your wife and typically will fan the flames of their conflict.

If I remember correctly, you posted previously about grace wanting to call your parents to get their "help" with your marriage/you and you were far from happy about this. Why was it okay for you to do it but not okay for grace?

For me, it is always helpful to ask myself, "Would I want my spouse to do this?" If the answer is no...then don't do it!

I described it as "my mom throughout a life raft and I took it." She noticed a change in her son, she knew something was not right. The purpose of the call was my company that I own, it is becoming a legal issue with my partner so I filled my Mom in on what was happening, because is is devastating, I've been back stabbed and it hurts like heck. I was emotional, she asked how my wife and I were, and I paused for like two minutes, and she knew immediately we were not doing well either. So while I reached out to my Mom for different reasons, I still shared some things with her in a moment of weakness that my wife didn't want me to share and that was wrong. I've since apologized. I made sure and let my Mom know at the end of the conversation that what is between Grace and I is between Grace and I alone, but that I appreciated her kind words of encouragement.

As to me rejecting my wife's idea of an "intervention" with my Dad, I guess I just didn't see what it really meant. People on the forum suggested it be a bad idea so I never thought about it again. My Mom has the ability to comfort me more than anyone on the face of the Earth, but in the future I want that person to be my wife.


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Originally Posted by Hilltopper1972
Originally Posted by Prisca
Question: If Grace is reluctant to spend time with your mother, what should you do?

Nothing.
Yep. smile

Quote
I've always been of the train of thought that people that make commitments should follow through on them. I told her that.
This is not doing nothing. In fact, this can very easily be seen as pressuring your wife to do something she doesn't want to do.

Your wife comes first. She comes before any other commitments to any other people, including family.

Taking the effort to be courteous to family and friends to the point of neglecting your spouse's feelings is a very, very easy trap to fall into. Many have done it. But it will need to stop in order to show care for your wife.

How do you stop it? POJA.


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Originally Posted by Hilltopper1972
I typically don't like to discuss the "who's fault is it" because I'm compromised on what I believe to be true vs supporting my wife.

Another good reason not to discuss whose fault it is is that fault is completely irrelevant.

I don't have time to comment much yet, but let me just say that your family is disrespectfully judging your wife.

There are two Marriage Builders book chapters that can really help you with this. One is in His Needs, Her Needs For Parents, chapter 14. And the other is in Love Busters, Chapter 9.


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Originally Posted by Prisca
Originally Posted by Hilltopper1972
Originally Posted by Prisca
Question: If Grace is reluctant to spend time with your mother, what should you do?

Nothing.
Yep. smile

Next question:

If Grace is reluctant about you spending time with your mother, or spending time on the phone with your mother, what should you do?


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

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Originally Posted by Hilltopper1972
I described it as "my mom throughout a life raft and I took it." She noticed a change in her son, she knew something was not right. The purpose of the call was my company that I own, it is becoming a legal issue with my partner so I filled my Mom in on what was happening, because is is devastating, I've been back stabbed and it hurts like heck. I was emotional, she asked how my wife and I were, and I paused for like two minutes, and she knew immediately we were not doing well either. So while I reached out to my Mom for different reasons, I still shared some things with her in a moment of weakness that my wife didn't want me to share and that was wrong. I've since apologized. I made sure and let my Mom know at the end of the conversation that what is between Grace and I is between Grace and I alone, but that I appreciated her kind words of encouragement.

How does Grace feel about the words of encouragement? I know how Prisca felt when my parents did the same thing.


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Hi Hilltopper,

I noticed something in your recent post that reminded me of...., well, reminded me of me.

It was my ease of willingness to suggest to my wife that she lie or that I even lie on her behalf. It was like I was telling her she wasn't strong enough to lie to get out of a commitment on her own, so I could demonstrate my great character and just rescue her by lying for her.

My wife could never put her finger on it prior to MB, but she discovered that I depleted a great deal of love units any time I suggested she lie, or that I lie for her.

I'm refering to this quote;

Originally Posted by Hilltopper1972
I even told her that no matter who it is, use me as the excuse as to why she doesn't want to go anywhere because this is hard for her to do so. I've offered to send a text for her from my phone, or call someone and politely decline that we have plans already, etc. She has refused my help with this.


And then you proceeded to follow up similar to the way I used to.

How?
I would suggest she tell little white lies and then I'd preach to her about morals and values, similar to what you do in the very next quote;

Originally Posted by Hilltopper1972
If my belief it is the courteous and moral thing to do to honor our commitments with others is damaging to my marriage then I will cease suggesting to my wife that will follow through again.


Both of what I've quoted can deplete love units quickly....

The first is dishonesty..... Kinda self explainatory!

The second is a DJ.

A DJ because you are suggesting she doesn't know what courteous, moral, honor and commitments are, so you'll just have to remind her. Oh yea, I forgot the part where you remind her she needs you to teach her about the importance of following through....... uhuh

I've been there done that..... ALL of that! And I always thought I was doing her a favor by pointing all these things out to her. (Not so much) She usually rewarded my valiant efforts with a lot of silence.

Being aware of an issue is about 70% of what leads you toward solutions....






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I Promise To Love, Honor and Cherish!

To leave my Parents and become ONE with my wife!

These are easy to say, and tough to follow through with in real life.

I blew it in all the above!



I've spent the past four years repairing the damage I wrecklessly created by forgetting those simple statements.

My role today is SIMPLE;

To PROTECT and To LOVE my wife above all others.

The beauty of living this way today;
Everything else seems to fall into place by following those two simple precepts...... Protect and Love!







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Originally Posted by Prisca
Originally Posted by Hilltopper1972
Originally Posted by Prisca
Question: If Grace is reluctant to spend time with your mother, what should you do?

Nothing.
Yep. smile

Quote
I've always been of the train of thought that people that make commitments should follow through on them. I told her that.
This is not doing nothing. In fact, this can very easily be seen as pressuring your wife to do something she doesn't want to do.

Your wife comes first. She comes before any other commitments to any other people, including family.

Taking the effort to be courteous to family and friends to the point of neglecting your spouse's feelings is a very, very easy trap to fall into. Many have done it. But it will need to stop in order to show care for your wife.

How do you stop it? POJA.

Yes we are working on that. For the most part we have both decided to postpone working on any relationships with my family until our marriage is healthy. I think it worth mentioning that I don't really bring it up, my wife reaches out to me about it and since it is a tough subject I may not be skilled enough to respond properly for the reasons I've mentioned. If she brings it up again, I'll likely politely suggest we do so in the future.


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Originally Posted by markos
Originally Posted by Hilltopper1972
I typically don't like to discuss the "who's fault is it" because I'm compromised on what I believe to be true vs supporting my wife.

Another good reason not to discuss whose fault it is is that fault is completely irrelevant.

I don't have time to comment much yet, but let me just say that your family is disrespectfully judging your wife.

There are two Marriage Builders book chapters that can really help you with this. One is in His Needs, Her Needs For Parents, chapter 14. And the other is in Love Busters, Chapter 9.

Yes you are correct fault is irrelevant which is while I'll likely decline the conversation next time my wife brings it up until we are MUCH further down the road with my wife.


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Originally Posted by markos
Originally Posted by Prisca
Originally Posted by Hilltopper1972
Originally Posted by Prisca
Question: If Grace is reluctant to spend time with your mother, what should you do?

Nothing.
Yep. smile

Next question:

If Grace is reluctant about you spending time with your mother, or spending time on the phone with your mother, what should you do?

I'll do what I have done since my discussion last week, nothing. I have spoken to my Dad however about the business side of things. You suggested an "If" scenario above. My wife is ok with me talking to my Mom, however not about A. Our Marriage, or B. Her relationship with my wife. I'll abide by that until we agree on who talks to who, when, and about what. I'm not really concerned about any feelings of "losing my Mom" or anything close to it, neither is my wife. For now though we are working on us because that is the best for both of us. smile


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Originally Posted by markos
Originally Posted by Hilltopper1972
I described it as "my mom throughout a life raft and I took it." She noticed a change in her son, she knew something was not right. The purpose of the call was my company that I own, it is becoming a legal issue with my partner so I filled my Mom in on what was happening, because is is devastating, I've been back stabbed and it hurts like heck. I was emotional, she asked how my wife and I were, and I paused for like two minutes, and she knew immediately we were not doing well either. So while I reached out to my Mom for different reasons, I still shared some things with her in a moment of weakness that my wife didn't want me to share and that was wrong. I've since apologized. I made sure and let my Mom know at the end of the conversation that what is between Grace and I is between Grace and I alone, but that I appreciated her kind words of encouragement.

How does Grace feel about the words of encouragement? I know how Prisca felt when my parents did the same thing.

Please ask her. From her feedback I'd say she loves the support from my Mom, but is not enthusiastic about our discussion we had together.


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Originally Posted by HerPapaBear
I Promise To Love, Honor and Cherish!

To leave my Parents and become ONE with my wife!

These are easy to say, and tough to follow through with in real life.

I blew it in all the above!



I've spent the past four years repairing the damage I wrecklessly created by forgetting those simple statements.

My role today is SIMPLE;

To PROTECT and To LOVE my wife above all others.

The beauty of living this way today;
Everything else seems to fall into place by following those two simple precepts...... Protect and Love!

Well written and insightful post PapaBear. I can see from my attempts to help my wife, she may have been offended by it instead which is why she never took me up on the offer. To be more specific, I don't offer to lie for my wife, instead I wanted to simply say, "We have other plans." My wife has expressed that she is not ok with that, unless we actually do have other plans with another couple or together. From my perspective, us watching tv on the couch or playing scrabble together constitutes "other plans." This is not true for my wife. Is it a lie or a white lie? I don't know man, all that matters is that my wife has a hard time saying no and that bites her in the [censored] sometimes, just ask her. I'm not judging her for it, in fact it is almost quite endearing that she is that honest, I was just trying to make things a bit easier for her. She has declined my offer to help in this area so for now I'll wait to be asked.


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