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While SF is your top EN, you cannot expect her to fill that need at her expense. Since there is a conflict over birth control, POJA says to do nothing until both of you are enthusiastic on which birth control method you will use. It doesn't feel like it, but this is to protect both of you.

The default of doing nothing is not supposed to feel good -- it should feel uncomfortable! This will encourage you to look for solutions.

Research some alternatives that you WOULD feel comfortable with and present them to her. She has said on her thread that she was willing to consider alternatives.


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Also, be open to listening to her desires -- the reasons behind WHY she believes that vasectomy is the answer. Be open to being persuaded.

There's an answer out there for the two of you. You just have to find it, together.


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Also, be open to listening to her desires -- the reasons behind WHY she believes that vasectomy is the answer. Be open to being persuaded.

There's an answer out there for the two of you. You just have to find it, together.


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Originally Posted by HopefulNC
The vasectomy has a higher chance of side effects than the IUD. FWIW. And, a higher chance of accidental pregnancies.

The copper IUD is a non hormonal option for your wife. However, I love my hormonal, low dose IUD. I have a high risk of blood clots and heart issues, and the IUD was cleared for me. Until my Lupus is stabilized a pregnancy could be life threatening for me, if I can ever carry to term.

There's a newly approved birth control pill for men, which I know nothing of, but it might be an option.

She was anti-IUD last night big time! I'm in a tough spot because I know my wife withheld SF from me because we mostly fell out of love until working on MB together. Then we had about a month or so of SF 1-2 times per week which we both very much enjoyed. Then the vasectomy talk really began to escalate to a fever's pitch about two weeks ago, and the sex stopped again. There was one night were we kind of fooled around but there was no sex which didn't turn out good. Then the other night I asked for it(this is very hard for me to do), got turned down, went downstairs because I felt neglected and wanted to start posting as this is my therapy of sorts. She said I was pouting, and invited me back up for SF. Other than that some things are going great, others are not, SF being one of them. I'm trying to look at it from her side, which is "I don't want to get pregnant," but like I've said before, SF is not up to me EVER. I remember I used to reach over to her in bed unannounced she would respond and we'd have sex. I would NEVER do that now, in fact I hesitate just to put my hand on her body in any way right now. Most of the time her body language says loud and clear, "DON't touch me, got it?"

She doesn't want me to plan babysitters so Date Night isn't up to me. Most things are not up to me because she just bulldozes me and I'm pretty easy going for the most part. I do not like being in this position. I'm gonna do my best to not LB and to meet EN's as my general plan and hopefully in the future she'll be more open and comfortable to letting me provide some input and make some decisions too.


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"let" you provide input and make some decisions? What do you mean by that?



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Having had 3 accidental pregnancies I understand your wife's side. But, at the same time, SF is so important in a marriage.

Good luck figuring it out!

Edited to add - POJA isn't about her bullying you into decisions. I did that to my DH for a long time, and still sometimes do. We've both gotten better about stepping out of the cycle when we get into it, but you've got to POJA everything or MB won't work. Trust me on that, and I'm no vet. wink

Last edited by HopefulNC; 06/09/11 03:16 PM.

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Do you understand why she didn't like the IUD? It's important to understand her reasons. When you understand each other, it's easier to find solutions.

You've got to stop thinking of "nothing is up to me," or "this is up to her." It's up to BOTH of you. POJA doesn't allow one spouse to be in charge of the other. So, SF is not up to you. It's not up to her, either. It's up to both of you to find a way to make SF enjoyable for both of you.

Quote
Most things are not up to me because she just bulldozes me and I'm pretty easy going for the most part.
POJA, if followed, will protect you from being bulldozed over. It will also protect her.


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Originally Posted by Prisca
While SF is your top EN, you cannot expect her to fill that need at her expense. Since there is a conflict over birth control, POJA says to do nothing until both of you are enthusiastic on which birth control method you will use. It doesn't feel like it, but this is to protect both of you.

The default of doing nothing is not supposed to feel good -- it should feel uncomfortable! This will encourage you to look for solutions.

Research some alternatives that you WOULD feel comfortable with and present them to her. She has said on her thread that she was willing to consider alternatives.

Right it will be uncomfortable, more so for me which I get.


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One option that the two of you may wish to consider is negotiating a temporary solution -- meaning, a birth control that you agree to use short term, a few months maybe. Something non-permanent, such as condoms or a mild hormonal method. Then revisit this issue again in a few months when you have more experience in negotiation.

This is a highly emotional and difficult subject for you to be negotiating when you have very little experience. It's a tough one. Markos and I did it last year, and it was HARD. If you negotiate for a short-term plan, it might take some of the pressure off and allow you to revisit the issue later, when it will be a lot easier to come up with a more permanent plan.

Consider it.


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Originally Posted by CWMI
"let" you provide input and make some decisions? What do you mean by that?

I mean exactly what it says. As it stands now my wife frequently makes her mind up about something and that is all there is to it, no other perspective needed. IUD is bad and I might get cancer I think is what she said last night. Where she got that info I don't know, but having the full info hasn't influenced her decision one way or the other in the past, hopefully it will in the future.


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Yes, learning POJA on BC is probably not the best thing to learn on.

Try it on laundry detergent. LOL


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Originally Posted by Prisca
Do you understand why she didn't like the IUD? It's important to understand her reasons. When you understand each other, it's easier to find solutions.

You've got to stop thinking of "nothing is up to me," or "this is up to her." It's up to BOTH of you. POJA doesn't allow one spouse to be in charge of the other. So, SF is not up to you. It's not up to her, either. It's up to both of you to find a way to make SF enjoyable for both of you.

Quote
Most things are not up to me because she just bulldozes me and I'm pretty easy going for the most part.
POJA, if followed, will protect you from being bulldozed over. It will also protect her.

She said with the IUD she has a hundred times greater chance of getting cancer and that she doesn't like to put things in her body. She said she had only been on BCP three months her entire life and it makes her act weird and crave strange foods. She said she didn't like the way a condom felt, but that she'd be willing to try it "one more time" so that is good. She said she would have had her tubes tied had she known I wasn't excited about getting vasectomy, fair enough I had been in the habit of agreeing to things that I'm not enthusiastic about for a long, long time. I asked her if there was no sex with no birth control was oral sex out of the question, she said that is was. I found this odd because this is all I got during her Previa during pregnancy and most of the months after pregnancy. She's provided some feedback, but most of them appear to be closed doors from my perspective, maybe her perspective is different.


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Originally Posted by Hilltopper1972
Originally Posted by CWMI
"let" you provide input and make some decisions? What do you mean by that?

I mean exactly what it says. As it stands now my wife frequently makes her mind up about something and that is all there is to it, no other perspective needed. IUD is bad and I might get cancer I think is what she said last night. Where she got that info I don't know, but having the full info hasn't influenced her decision one way or the other in the past, hopefully it will in the future.

So far as I know there are no reports that IUDs cause cancer any longer. Years ago the Dalcon Shield did, but the new ones do not. My DH and I set a OB/GYN appt to discuss BC, I wanted both of us to be truely informed and not just be going off folklore or whatever.

There are tons of BC pills, not all work the same. And there is NO increased cancer risk with the IUD. I hate it when mythinformation is spread around. What about Essure? The new tubal insertion that can be done in the doctors office with no anesthetic?

I'm a walking, talking Mirena billboard. And, we paid a pretty penny for mine!

Last edited by HopefulNC; 06/09/11 03:38 PM.

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Originally Posted by HopefulNC
Originally Posted by Hilltopper1972
Originally Posted by CWMI
"let" you provide input and make some decisions? What do you mean by that?

I mean exactly what it says. As it stands now my wife frequently makes her mind up about something and that is all there is to it, no other perspective needed. IUD is bad and I might get cancer I think is what she said last night. Where she got that info I don't know, but having the full info hasn't influenced her decision one way or the other in the past, hopefully it will in the future.

So far as I know there are no reports that IUDs cause cancer any longer. Years ago the Dalcon Shield did, but the new ones do not. My DH and I set a OB/GYN appt to discuss BC, I wanted both of us to be truely informed and not just be going off folklore or whatever.

There are tons of BC pills, not all work the same. And there is NO increased cancer risk with the IUD. I hate it when mythinformation is spread around. What about Essure? The new tubal insertion that can be done in the doctors office with no anesthetic?

I'm a walking, talking Mirena billboard. And, we paid a pretty penny for mine!

Well I think an appt is probably in order then. Did you go over the vasectomy option with DH? What were his concerns? Its strange, I've had only two friends that have gotten vasectomies and you'd think that it was state law by my wife's insistence that I get one. I don't like surgery ok? I mean when it was my knees and ankles from playing basketball all those years that is one thing, but despite how it has been presented to me by my wife, and a couple of over guys on this forum who have gotten one, I'm still not very comfortable with the idea, it kind of freaks me out. What about the rest of the world? What have they done to avoid having another child?

Last edited by Hilltopper1972; 06/09/11 03:48 PM.

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Originally Posted by Prisca
One option that the two of you may wish to consider is negotiating a temporary solution -- meaning, a birth control that you agree to use short term, a few months maybe. Something non-permanent, such as condoms or a mild hormonal method. Then revisit this issue again in a few months when you have more experience in negotiation.

This is a highly emotional and difficult subject for you to be negotiating when you have very little experience. It's a tough one. Markos and I did it last year, and it was HARD. If you negotiate for a short-term plan, it might take some of the pressure off and allow you to revisit the issue later, when it will be a lot easier to come up with a more permanent plan.

Consider it.

Well there are two parts to this, one is taking a bit of the pressure of me to "make it happen" and two allowing some possibility of SF happening which is very important to me. I think condoms would be the easiest quickest fix, which both of us agree are not the best but is better than nothing. I think she is open to this or at least open to it one time to try it out again. Last time she did not care for it.


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Google "Birth Control Methods" and you will find quite a list of options. There are several barrier methods available, for both men and women. There are many different kinds of condoms -- if she doesn't like the feel of one kind, there are others that feel differently. Many hormonal methods are available, that are easier on the woman's body than the pill -- Implano, Nuvaring ... I've heard talk of a Male Pill, but haven't seen it available yet.

And many of these options can be combined to avoid pregnancy even more effectively.

Point is, there's a lot of options out there if you read around. Ask around. Talking to a doctor would be GREAT.


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Originally Posted by Hilltopper1972
Well I think an appt is probably in order then. Did you go over the vasectomy option with DH? What were his concerns? Its strange, I've had only two friends that have gotten vasectomies and you'd think that it was state law by my wife's insistence that I get one. I don't like surgery ok? I mean when it was my knees and ankles from playing basketball all those years that is one thing, but despite how it has been presented to me by my wife, and a couple of over guys on this forum who have gotten one, I'm still not very comfortable with the idea, it kind of freaks me out. What about the rest of the world? What have they done to avoid having another child?

We considered the V, but DH and I both personally know a couple of people who had issues after the fact - both were older people, but it ruined their sex life. And, once it's done, it's really hard to reverse, and if you're in the 5% or so that has problems then a reversal doesn't always repair the problems. It wasn't worth the risks.

We went with the Mirena IUD, mine expires in 18 months. If I'm healthy enough we'll probably try for a baby. If not, then we'll get another Mirena. Talking to your OB/GYN, if you and your wife trust them is really the best source of good information on BC. I was on the pill for a year (two different ones).



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Originally Posted by Hilltopper1972
Well there are two parts to this, one is taking a bit of the pressure of me to "make it happen" and two allowing some possibility of SF happening which is very important to me. I think condoms would be the easiest quickest fix, which both of us agree are not the best but is better than nothing. I think she is open to this or at least open to it one time to try it out again. Last time she did not care for it.


Without the pressure of having to decide right now because NOT getting any sex is just miserable for everybody involved, being about to consider other methods will feel a whole lot easier. Plus, as I said, you do not yet have the skills to negotiate big issues ... it will seem a lot less difficult in a few months after you've negotiated a lot of smaller things and thus have a lot more experience. Your love banks will be fuller then, too, which will also make it easier.

If I were the two of you, I would set a date to revisit the issue a few months down the road.

On the condoms: As I said, there are several different kinds. Some feel better than others to certain women. Read up on that and present her with a few options.


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My H had a vasectomy. We agreed while I was preggars with dd7 that if I need a C (it was a possibility) that I would be tied, and if not, he would be snipped. It was very uncomfortable for him for 2-3 days afterwards, but then he was back to normal. Problem was, I was naive about it and believed him when he said the DR told him 'normal activity could be resumed after 30 days without pregancy' and now we have ds6. lol.

If you do decide to do it, use other protection until after at least two sperm checks.

I, personally, would have preferred a hysterectomy. smile


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Not that ds6 isn't a total delight, and I wouldn't trade him for the world. smile


Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
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