Hill ... dont let your emotions get the best of you .. Your doing GREAT! Your still being tested ok .... ***EDIT***

Don't underestimate the negative power of a 'mild DJ'.

My H thought that a 'little lie' was nothing to even blink at. Oh, how wrong he was! It took a long, long time for me to even begin to believe anything he said, and that was only after repeat verification that it was, in fact, the truth. Every little 'mild lie' was a set back to zero.

You probably don't always have to be perfect forever, Hill, but it would pay for you to 'be perfect' in avoiding the most deadly LBs for as long as it takes for her to be in love again. Every 'mild DJ' is probably a set back to zero.

What is there not to love?
Your abuse.
DJs are abuse. There is nothing "mild" about them.
You cannot fill her lovebank as long as you are punching holes in it.
She cannot love you as long as you abuse her.

I agree! Be aware of her top LB's! She should also be of yours ... but .. shes not into MB so .... *shrugs* you will be primarily doing that until the pebbles fill the creek so you can cross, kinda deal.

MNG

Yeah I am being tested. Perhaps subconsciously she wants to see if I throw a fit when I don't get my way with the sex thing. We had some good exchanges today over the phone. This is clearly a woman that is integrated with me and relies on me to help make decisions for the family, but also for her.

Good perspective here. I won't underestimate the power of a DJ, I guess I just can't believe that she is literally out of love with me. That is not a good feeling. Also, the no sex thing is just not a big deal to her. She knew I was disappointed and I didn't hide it. I was respectful at all times.

How long did Markos go without an AO before you felt feelings of love for him return?

did ya read that link .. and the link in my first post in that thread? The other links in that thread are good too ..

Then be more bold, but respectful. For instance, my H didn't want to have conversations with me, which is one of my top needs. (We had already done the ENQ, he knew it was a top need) So I asked him, "Why don't you have conversations with me?" He told me it was because he talked to people all day long at work and didn't want to have conversations when he got home. So I asked if there was anything I could do about that. He said no. So I asked, "Okay then, what are you willing to do about it?"

If he'd said, "Nothing," that would be a clue. But he didn't. He got pissy instead about how demanding I was and he didn't have time for this BS, so I asked him how he thought I should go about getting my need for conversation met.

Now he won't shut up, lol.

Don't know how well that would work for SF...but you could ask her why she doesn't have sex with you x times a week. Don't ask her why she WON'T, just ask her why she doesn't. And listen. Ask what you can do about it. Do it.

If she doesn't respond, bring it back up. See how you're doing. Tweak it.

If she says there's nothing you can do, then do like I did, and ask her what she's willing to do about it. If she blows up, shrug and say, "Okay then. I think I understand your answer to be that you are not willing to have sex with me on a regular basis, is that right?" Whether she says yes or no or FU, just say, "Okay."

And give it a couple of days to sink in. Meanwhile, be pleasant and meet ENs. IME, people who are willing to acknowledge an unwillingness to meet ENs get really freaked out by calm spouses, especially if they have a pattern of flipping out and DJing. And they start to think that perhaps, just perhaps, THEY'RE the problem.

Not being 'the problem' anymore worked wonders in my marriage. Try it!

3 months of absolutely no demands, DJs, or AOs.
And the minute he had a DJ/AO, we were back to square 1.

A lot of people do not like scheduling sex. They like spontaneity. If they know that sex is going to happen at this particular time, where is the mystery in that?
They like to be in the moment, If the emotional connection is there it will happen.

Hill last month you mentioned that you had an apointment for a V. How is the statis on that? What was the reaction after that?

Yup ... this is a great MB termed example of rolling with the punches!

It took darn near 4 months of not letting myself get dragged into her "tests" and keeping myself emotionally stable while meeting her needs and not expecting mine met to get her to reprogram herself. My wife constantly (probably unknowingly) used her anger and my fear of her emotional reaction to get what she wanted in an argument.... It no longer phases me and she tested me many times to get me to "bite" and help her escalate a petty argument into a family brawl. I refused. Over and over again. She could be mad all she wanted, say horrible things etc. I would not engage with her in that manner ... until she realized i was not changing and resorting back to my knee jerking reactions that she usually expected of me so she could use it against me later (or right then).

Once i stopped .. she eventually stopped. Of course I changed myself into a more fun, loving and roll with the punches attitude approach for her and shes loving it .. I like the new me ... as does she! (i wish she would post so she could back me up! on it lol).

Here's her thread tho!

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545131&page=1

MNG

A lot of people don't like scheduling root canals. But they do it, and why? Because they want to keep their teeth. So if a person wants to keep their marriage...scheduling in time for sex needs to happen IF THAT IS THE ONLY WAY IT WILL HAPPEN.

If a couple is getting 15+ hours of UA time a week, at least a couple of these hours should include sex. The intimate ENs aren't: recreational companionship, conversation, affection, and oh, if you feel like it, sex.

KWIM?

CWMI i found my wife did not respond well to a sexual event if it was scheduled. (Hills wife seems alot like mine was in regards to her attitude towards MB when she first heard of it)

Scheduling puts "pressure" on her (at least thats what my wife said). And IT would often lead to awkward moments where my wife would say something like "So i guess we should have sex then huh?" and she would do that act .. but be lifeless. Which is NOT fulfilling. (she considered it filling my SF need though so i stopped wanting SF for a while because of this which also helped for some reason lol) Proably took the pressure off her then she began to wonder why i was not approaching her anymore. I would touch her gently, tell her i love her then pull my touch away and walk to another room and let her come to me.

I had to give her time to reprogram herself and let her learn that I am safe .. and I can roll with the punches. This unfortunately took many months .. probably 4 or 5 of them.

In the mean time I listened to my wife who told me i needed to be more fun .. more easy going .. not so much of a push over where i just agreed with her all the time. She told me she wanted me to take charge more of some things and stand up to her on the occasion ... she told me she wanted to be able to not have sex on a sex scheduled night and I should be OK with that to not care so much about it and just let it happen if its going to happen ... and just cuddle instead. If i got pissy about it .. She would reply "see .. your not changed at all!" and we would go back to day one with the testing again Because she would prove I was still the same old emotional guy that apparently only cared to get his own needs met. Of course this usually panned out after several weeks of not getting My needs met i would be confronted with that same line "you just want to get your own needs met and dont care about anyone elses". Which is not true! I couldnt argue the point because then it would prove to her in her mind that it was true.

Tough road. But I have given Hill all the advice I have came across that helped me get out of my funk so i was better able to give grace to my wife so she could get out of her funk.

Keep at it hill ... I am rooting for ya!

MNG

That is because you are doing it wrong. Did you read Dr Harley's article, How to Get the Sex you Need? Sex should be an EVENT, and not just routine NEED that is met in a vacuum. It needs to met in conjunction with the other ENs, such as affection, recreational companionship and conversation during your UA time. For example, when you go out and spend 3 hours on a hot date, the night should be finished with SF.

When you do it like that, your wife does feel romantic because she will feel emotionally attached to you.

"Spontaneity" does not = ROMANTIC, just keep that in mind. Just because something is spontaneous does not mean it is romantic. Being romantic is what makes it romantic. If you SCHEDULE your sex in a way that makes sense, in the context of a romantic DATE, it does not feel robotic. You have to MAKE it romantic and set the stage, in other words.

People that don't schedule it, usually don't do a good job of meeting each others emotional needs because time that is not scheduled is too easy to put off.

Yup I did read that article. .. i get it (now but at the time when my needs were unmet for weeks on end) .. but my attitude usually sucked due to my unmet needs. Which sucked the mood right out of my wife. She would give me this look, because she could tell i was expecting sex, (even after a hot date) that was like " i guess its time for sex .. we had dinner .. lots of talking ... a nice walk .. etc .. an all round good night and my wife would blurt out that line almost everytime. "I guess its time huh?"

We did schedule it. Just in the moment she would usualy be put off by it becasue she knew i expected it that day. Dunno why .. I would try and ACT like i didnt want it (i really did inside) she would rush it .. and not want it to be enjoyable for herself. I could never understand that .. but eventually had to accept it. Of course its not like that anymore .. i just tease her a bit or bug her in a fun and sexual way and drop my "hint" and carry on like i didnt. Tease her a bit ... wrestle her ... lean in and kiss her during a TV commercial ... whisper things in her ears ... etc. IM getting much better at being FUN for her (her request) and she initaites more and if she choses not to want fulfillment for herself .. IM cool with that .. she lets me know now and feels alot more secure knowing when i answer i mean what I say.

Bascily anytime my wife KNEW i wanted sex ... she felt pressured to "put out" and that mind set just stuck with her for a long time. Thank good ness .. not anymore .. she can hardly keep her hands off me .. We have a new word too! .. "comfort" is our "word" for sexual touching! haha! TMI?? *shrugs*

The problem is that you didn't do a good job of meeting her needs of conversation and affection during your UA time because typically a woman feels so close and bonded to her husband after a night out together that she looks FORWARD to it. That is how it should work if you are hitting the mark. If your attitude "sucked" that would be the reason. Who wants to make love to a guy with a bad attitude? yuck!

Something didn't happen here that caused her to NOT look forward to it. That is what I would work on. I would guage her reaction to the prospect of sex as an indicator of your success at meeting her needs.

Yup .. I hear ya .. I wouldnt want to make love to a guy with a bad attitude either!

She would tell me it was not ME .. but her! (tired after getting in after 10pm from the night out or whatever. And she would apologize and explain to me that just thinking about doing it even though we had a great night (we would cuddle ... and kiss .. and hold hands .. and chat ... and walk and watch other people and drum up conversation easily) created anxiety in her (she felt she may have had some sort of an aversion for a while because of the fights from many years past over sex). And do all the romantic things but have sex at the end of the night. I would feel frusterated for the lack of sex cuz i would expect it (my mistake and a self talking DJ)

Oh I agree! Totally! I'M good now though! *flexes* at least thats what my wife says .. haha!

yep, that is how I used to feel when my H and I didn't have a good time together. When he had a bad attitude I couldnt wait to get away from him. But when we had a great time, I didn't "feel tired" or have a "headache."

I have found that the most effective way to get the sex you need in marriage is to go out on 4 - 4 hour dates and finish the night with SF. After 3 hours of great UA time, we both felt energized and in the mood.