Its been awhile my friends, but I haven't had much to tell you. It seems like everytime I try to write something, I think, "what's the point", nothing has changed. Now I have more to share and I am wondering what some who are already going through it or have gone through it can give me.<p>My wife, is moving into a house with two other women. She has put down her deposit and is moving this week. My heart is breaking and I don't know how to deal. Through the past year I have worked to show her the differences in me, I have wanted and worked for recovery. She tells me that she has tried too, but has always and constantly keeps me at arms length because of how I have hurt her...We know here that trying involves using the steps that the Harley's have given here in some capacity, even if its not 100%...she won't go even close to any of those. She doesn't want to rebuild trust, she doesn't want to be hurt again and these things I understand, but where does this leave us? She tells me she sees the differences, she knows I am trying, but she doesn't trust it, thinks its a joke to me and that I really am just doing this to try and win something. This is the most frustrating part I think. <p>I don't know what to do next, I am spending so many nights contemplating things I should not, I have suicidal thoughts and feelings of despair that so many times seem unquenched by words of any kind. She constantly reminds me of the things that I have done, even after all this time, that is what she seems to want to talk about. She won't talk about getting past it, she just wants to drag up all of the hurt and pain and that is what I am trying to get past. She says leaving me is the only way. I suppose I could accept this, but she doesn't offer any hope for us. She doesn't say, I need to get away so that I can think about recovery, or getting away may help me to see something different here. She talks about leaving and staying gone. She talks about moving on and dating and never offers me any kind of hope, not even a little. I just don't know where to go next. Sometimes I think I see little flashes of things that could be built on, but she's quick to stamp it out. I am starting to feel a bit ridiculous frankly. I am starting to think I am a fool for holding on to this marriage that I believe so much in and want to rebuild. <p>Someone please help me? I don't really know how to do this truthfully. Plan A/Plan B none of it really seems make much sense when you are living in such a sad place.

...

i see you.... be back in a few... {{{{{MH}}}}}

I saw your subject earlier this afternoon, and was relieved to see you still around. I just now read it, and I had to think for a minute. I'm still thinking [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] .<p>I guess I have several thoughts for you, and they may spill out here - not in much organization.<p>1st. Do you think you can get her to call in one time with Steve Harley? I'll go look at sad dad's recent thread (a week ago) to see how he phrased it. Something like asking her to call in to explore all options - not just recovery... I'll go look and be back with that.<p>ok, here's the letter sad dad was thinking of writing... I'm not sure if he ever gave it, but this is the gist of what I was asking you... if you think you could say something like this to your W. I know we advised him to make it less "clinical", and make it more personable.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>"I'm sure you feel our marriage is hopeless and your only options are staying in an unhappy marriage or going through a messy divorce and custody battle. I believe there's another option. Steve Harley has worked with alot of couples that were far worse off than we are, and has been able to help them work through their problems, reconnect and regain the emotional intimacy that was missing in thier marriages by following a the steps he laid out for them. Many of them have gone on to have better marriages than they ever had by learning new ways to communicate and meet each other's needs. Are you willing to let him help us or at least consider it? We have nothing to lose and everything to gain. I think we owe it to ourselves and to our daughter to exhaust every possible option to save our marriage and hopefully avoid this mess." <hr></blockquote><p>2nd. YOU need to be in counseling for yourSELF, if you are having suicidal thoughts. k? You are going to make it through this, and you can become strong through it. I saw a counselor a few times myself, as well as coming here a LOT, and reading TONS of books, praying, crying, journaling, exerising, and trying to stay busy. Are you doing these things?<p>I'm trying to think about my situation, and how the H-E-!-! I made it!!! I really had a hard time at the beginning, and really, up until recently.<p>I truly had to work HARD to come to the acceptance that XH was going to do whatever he wanted, and I couldn't do anything about it. Up until the day he moved out FOR GOOD (moving van and everything, divorce agreement in the works and everything), I tried my bestest to keep my chin up, and have the attitude that I was going to be ok, I was working on myself, and HE was making a mistake losing me. The morning he moved out, I fixed a big breakfast. he asked why - I said "cuz I love you." that's it. <p>Your marriage is not over yet. repeat that. <p>BUT, you need to work on becoming a WHOLE person ANYWAY. That's the best formula for marriage - or life as a single.... BEING WHOLE. What are your strengths? What makes you happy? What were you like when you 2 met and fell in love? <p>You are not an idiot for fighting for you marriage. BUT the sooner you are WILLING to let go, the healthier you will be, and the healthier "Missing Her" SHE will see. Do you NEED her in your life? Or do you CHOOSE to have her in your life? <p>What books have you read? I can give you a list of all the books I've read. I don't know where I would be without them. They fed my soul, heart, and mind. They kept me from going nuts.<p>What am i saying? I think I'm saying, It's not the end of the world that she's moving out. I KNOW it feels like it. That's why we're here, to remind you of the truth. it doesn't mean the marriage is over. Time apart may be what you 2 need. I know you willl hurt - being without her. But I promise, it gets a little easier. The "missing her" times will get fewer and fewer. We're here as your friends and support, so you don't feel alone emotionally. You can hang out with us as much as you want to. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] We're pretty good company. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Anyhoo.... I hope this helps some. I will keep thinking and praying... and maybe I can think of something more inspirational or earth-shatteringly intelligent for you. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>{{{{{{Missing Her}}}}}}}<p>[ May 09, 2002: Message edited by: Faith1 ]</p>

Missing her,<p>To view your actions as a joke is a cop out. She knows this. She also knows this will hurt you and in her own way she is getting back at you. She may never admit it. <p>So why don't you tell her, ok you won. You meant to hurt me and you did. Hope you are happy. Then walk away. Funny thing about the WS, they want to hurt, want you to know they hurt you but don't want to 'hear' from your mouth that you know. <p>I did this to my H. He said it made him sad and I said good. Then I pulled a 'double babble' on him and quickly said, well now you need to be happy, come on laugh! He looked hurt and confused that is what I needed to see, him look hurt and confused. So I took it to the next level. I said, this is not funny, but someone better be laughing for all this pain that I feel. See that would eliminate the 'your joking theory'. I said, I'm not laughing, friends and family are not laughing. God is not laughing. Please go ahead laugh, show me that you are enjoying this misery. I was pushing the happiness he and the OW claimed to have in his face. He said that he was NOT happy. Then I said, I could careless if the OW is happy or not so why should I or my friends and family have to suffer so she can be happy? <p>I did whatever I could to burst that bubble. I learned to babble back because that seems to be the only junk they react to. It is hard to do but in some ways it protects us. <p>I am sorry you are going through this mess. Your W definitely needs to see that you are not enjoying this. Don't let her tell you otherwise. If she does, tell her she is believing a lie. <p>L.

How ya doin today, MH?

Doing OK...thanks for asking.
You guys are the bestest! Seems like I can always count on you and Orchid for something that can help bring me out of a funk.<p>I know that I need to feel like a whole a person for my sake and for our marriage. Its just so hard to think about doing all of this without this person who I love so much. The funny part is that I feel like I am digressing from the strength that I have gained. The past year has helped to me see the importance of so many things. It has helped me to not take for granted and to appreciate her as a person, but all of that hasn't really done much good, at least not on the surface. I left for work today feeling pretty low, the last thing I told her was that I loved her and that she and our marriage was the most important thing in the world to me, but I know that it is going to take both of us giving a hundred percent to make it work. She just shakes her head. I stand in a heap of tears and say I understand then headed out. She called me this morning to tell me to have a good day and that she would be praying for me, she added that she wants me to stop saying we will never see each other again (her words). I approach it like this, "I know we only have a few more mornings together like this and I am so sad to think we won't be seeing each other anymore". She has told me on several occasions that she doesn't want to talk to me or see me or have anything to do with me when she leaves, I guess I take it literally, but I am a guy and you women sometimes say things that you might mean at that moment, but don't really want....I'm so confused. <p>The calling Steve thing might be good, but she seems so unwilling to approach any type of help right now. This morning I even suggested we find another counselor and get a plan, that's all I wanted in the first place. He notion is that you don't need anyone to help you, there is no magic program and if you can't figure it out on your own then its never going to work out anyway. I just listen and cry and tell her that we do need help, that its too big to not get help. She said, "what do you think people did back in the old days when there weren't counselors and psychologists, they just dealt with it and got through it". She says this is another reason why we won't ever work, because we can't communicate. I keep hearing her words, but I still think she is talking through pain, or the fog or something. I read this statistic about recovery and that more than 50% of marriages do recover and with a less likely chance of divorce. Where have I gone wrong? Why is my marriage that has been destroyed by my infidelity and then hers not able to recover?<p>Anyway, just kinda where I'm at today. I am going to make it though. I was just nominated for two Emmy Awards and things are looking up professionally. BTW, I think she is going to go with me to the Awards ceremony next weekend. Its just hard to find the good stuff when you are so racked with the emotion of the bad.

2 Emmy awards??? [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] Congrats!<p>I hate to be nosey... but.... you brought it up.... [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Emmy's for what? [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Glad you are feeling better... keep up the good work... work on those tears, k? I'm going to look for the list of 180's and post them here for you.<p>Here ya go... I think it might do you some good to work on some of these... k?
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>
I got this off http://www.divorcebusting.com. I hope this helps. DivorceBusting suggests doing a 180.<p>1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore!
2. No frequent phone calls
3. Do not point out good points in marriage
4. Do not follow him around the house
5. Do not encourage talk about the future
6. Do not ask for help from family members
7. Do not ask for reassurances
8. Do not buy gifts
9. Do not schedule dates together
10. Do not spy on spouse
11. Do not say "I Love You"
12. Act as if you are moving on with your life
13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive
14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse &#8211; get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.
15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation), be scarce or short on words.
16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his whereabouts, ASK NOTHING
17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse
18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he will be missing
19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. show him someone he would want to be around.
20. All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while)
21. Never lose your cool
22. Don't be overly enthusiastic
23. Do not argue about how he feels (it only makes their feelings stronger)
24. Be patient
25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you
26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out
27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil)
28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly
29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write
30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy
31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse
32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because he is hurting and scared
33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel
34. Do not backslide from your hard-earned changes.<hr></blockquote><p>[ May 10, 2002: Message edited by: Faith1 ]</p>

Those are very good! Many of them I have tried and definately have seen glimpses. She sometimes will react to some of it very negatively, like almost gets frustrated when I am happy, or when I try and be in a good mood. Its very strange the way she acts when I back off a bit, she gets a little upset it seems, like she'll say she notices I have been a bit distant, or why do you seem so uninterested now. Usually my difference is subtle, but she gets frustrated when I tell her that I feel she offers no hope. She will say things like, are you giving up? Or, I thought you had hope for us? I don't really know why she even cares to ask.

I do appreciate that approach, but I start to feel so unreal, like I am forcing myself to not want to go out with her, or I am forcing myself to not buy her something I see that I think she will like. Is this how you plan B when noone has forced a move out, but its happening anyway? I think my situation might not have a true way to recover.