I feel so alone and empty right now. WH has been chatty/warm for two days when I talk to him (nothing ever about us or him and OW) and I have been business friendly and ended most of the conversations. Tonight we talked about money (never a good conversation since we don't have enough, he said we need to sell the house in six months and split proceeds). He is opening his own checking account tomorrow and taking my name off account(which I had to do to our joint one due to overspending). He tried to talk about kids and I just couldn't do it. I let there be silence.He left and I wished him a good night. I'll see him this weekend for kid's b-party, conference, and at church.
There is absolutely no feelings between us...or coming from him. I can't believe he doesn't love me anymore...how can he not? But he really doesn't. I can read him so well. I don't think there's any fog. I think he is keeping the A private from most people so when we are divorced, his relationship will be be more respectable.
The thought of seeing him this weekend, let alone the next twenty years, is so painful. It is much easier for me when I don't see him.
Thoughts?
-CS

Thoughts? Yes, the bottom is a long ways off. He is getting his needs met by you and the OW. How much longer will this be allowed to continue is up to you. <p>It is wearing you down. I certainly know the feeling. What MB steps have you enacted or plan to put into use if continues as is?<p>L.

In thinking about my emptiness, the healthest answer is that I need to fill it; however, I just feel like half of me walked out the door. I wanted to grab him and hold on for dear life. Note: I have not asked WH to move back in once. There is such an errie calmness about my WH. I feel so utterly flat. I am going on with my life but I can't get excited about ANYTHING.
-CS

Orchid: I am trying a Plan A-for the past week-with a few LB's along the way. Where am I meeting his needs? For family time? Suggestions?
Thanks.

can't sleep...
Your posts are eerily like mine just one year ago...<p>All I can say is that you read... read... read... learn... learn... learn... <p>Books that helped me turn corners and get up in the morning: "The Prayer of Jabez," & "Secrets of the Vine" by Bruce Wilkinson. "The Four Agreements," and "The Mastery of Love" by don Miguel Ruiz. Harriet Lerner's books, "Dance of Intimacy," "Dance of Deception," and "Dance of Connection." The Harley's books (ALL of them). Books by Chuck Swindoll. Susan Page's books, "How One of You Can Keep The Two of You Together" and "If We're So In Love, Why Aren't We Happy." Michele Wiener-Davis's books, "Divorcebusting" and "Divorce Remedy."<p>Yep... I've read them all PLUS!<p>Just do this and keep minimal contact... It is so early days yet... please do NOT despair... <p>Hugs,
Cali

Cali:
Hello. I wish my ending was similar to yours. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] I have ordered some of those books (from web and library) and hope to get them next week. I have read DB. My understanding of Plan A is to create a better me - for me- and if in the process WH notices --I'll have created a safe place for him to return to. Question: What is my attitude supposed to be when I see him? From the 180 list, it seems business friendly is appropriate and not too many warm-fuzzies. This seems to contradict each other.
Please clarify if you have time.
Thanks,
CS

Do you have the "Lovebusters" book? I would read it and figure out which ones were very detrimental to your relationship... (mine were selfish demands, critical judgments & angry outbursts!) It took time, but I have virtually eliminated them and replaced them w/ more direct conversation that gets at the HEART of why I feel the way I do w/out blaming him.<p>Check out the Emotional Needs questionnaire. I'm guessing that you know your H enough to fill it out as if you were him... then go about filling the ones you can (My one and only session w/ Steve... he recommended this). My H's top needs were affection, conversation, family support, recreation and sexual fulfillment... <p>At first I overwhelmed him w/ cards... but he kept them... I made them light... some encouraging... some just about memories...<p>I started to really listen to him w/out interruption... rolling my eyes... getting impatient... I didn't interrupt... just listened and nodded... <p>I asked him (when he moved out for his month) that we have family night once a week for the kids... one night a week for us to go out together and Sunday was church. I made sure that on our nights out we did stuff we had done early in our 'courtship' and that it was always lighthearted and fun. I worked out w/ him at the gym or on our fitness equipment.<p>And, yep... we continued to be intimate... our SF life actually intensified and was more active after d-day than before.<p>You do what you can with what you know and you know your H the best.<p>Hugs,
Cali

From the 180 list, it seems business friendly is appropriate and not too many warm-fuzzies. This seems to contradict each other. <p>It all depends on your H and your relationship with him. That is why it is important to make a plan and keep a journal of what you do and what seems to work.<p>If you were very affectionate during marriage and even the last few months... maybe a little coolness would be in order... maybe the opposite... it all depends on you.<p>If you said "I love you" a lot and still do. Stop.<p>It's a balance between filling emotional needs but not being CLINGY. As he and OW spend more time together, they will get 'comfortable' with one another and stuff they haven't liked about one another but 'overlooked' due to the fantasy and passion will start to become more prominent...<p>I know it is hard... but GIVE IT TIME... 6 months plan A is a rule of thumb... but not in stone... then 18 months of plan b... could be different since you are already in divorce proceedings??? But if you can afford to make a session w/ Steve or Jen, they could give you more professional advice.<p>Hugs again,
Cali

Cali:
Thanks. Unfortunately, no SF at all for us (and one month prior to his leaving). For awhile when he left, we hugged but that has stopped since he told me it was completely over. I do need to think about this more as I am confused about both (me and OW) meeting his needs and he might never acknowledge the affair or end it and doing things for him/us that he might like. I like your ideas of figuring out what H's needs are; yet, it feels like I am going backwards if I do them. Am I fighting this too hard?
-CS

BELIEVE ME, I KNOW!<p>I was sOOOOOO angry that H had a 'wife' to do the 'wifey' things and a 'girlfriend' to stroke him and inflate his ego... <p>what did I have?<p>nada... well I had the MB forum (THANKS GUYS!)... but after awhile you start to crave some intimacy... <p>I remember Orchid posting something about wanting to be 'swept away.' <p>Yep... we all get that way...<p>Just take it ONE DAY AT A TIME... heck some days it was ONE HOUR AT A TIME!<p>Cali

Cant- If I were you I'd avoid asking him any questions about his plans for divorce or the future of your relationship.In fact I recommend that when he mentions divorce at all you tell him you're against divorce, that it would be harmful to the kids futures, and that there is no need to discuss it further. Tell him you believe that your marriage can be restored. I would sometimes ask H about his future plans but when I did this it invaribly crushed me and set me off crying, meanwhile H was so emotionally detached from me by this point that he didn't even attempt to comfort me!He insisted he wanted a divorce and that our marriage was hopeless! For instance, one wk he came by every night to see the kids, shovelled the sidewalks and even ate dinner with us a few times so I figured he might be thinking about moving back home right? So at the end of that week I asked him- he replied that he'd been interviewing divorce lawyers on his lunch hrs and checking out apts! And he said it all in this cool detached matter of fact tone that made me CRAZY!!!! I recommend you read the book Love Must be Tough by Dobson ( great book for designing a Plan B!)and Harley's Surviving an Affair as soon as possible! They are excellent strategy guides and will help you understand what is going on!!! I also want to tell you that just because your H is physically distant, cold and detached from you NOW doesn't mean it will be that way forever! My H refused to be intimate with me for 8 mo and wouldnt kiss me even! Claimed he was out of love with me and IN LOVE with OW! Blamed me for EVERYTHING he could think of- said that if I insisted he kiss me that it would be as if I had demanded he go kiss the next door neighbor lady! He was that far 'gone.!' Yet here we are one year later( plenty of counseling!) and our intimate life is not only BACK it's better than EVER! Don't believe for a minute that he doesnt still have some love for you after 12 yrs and 3 kids together!Your H is trying to avoid dealing with his feelings for you and is projecting his inner dissatisfaction with himself onto you. What my H thought was being 'in love with OW' and that they were 'soulmates' was really manipulative pressure from her and desperation on her part to get him to marry her and an emotional addiction on his part that he didn't know how to get out of- he would sometimes try to break it off with her then weaken and go back! Plus one HECK of a mid-life crisis!!! ( read the book Men in Mid-Life Crisis by Jim Conway- EXCELLENT read and covers affairs in there too!) lifeismessy

Not to make you dizzy from reading, but I just bought another book . . "Too good to leave, too bad to stay". It could help you with how YOU really feel. Talks about relationship 'ambivalence' & being stuck in Limbo. ( I thought of changing my name to that!)
Lets see if I can remember some questions - In your history, have there been times you would say were very good? How would you rate it. (so is there something worth saving?)
- Has there been times you have gone about your business unaware you are excluding your partner.?
- More than 1 incident of physical abuse?<p>Lots more with good examples & discussion. <p>On another note, I posted about "needing help with fencesitting WH" the day before yesterday so its probably 2 pages back. Also someone referred me to a posting by "Sadprincess" in the recovery thread about our feelings. Some good responses.
Sometimes I think its good for our own health to act like they are not around at all. Do your own thing. Absolutely no crying, pleading to come back etc. It seems that so often when the BS feels like they can manage by themselves & it shows, then WS starts paying attention. My H started his affair lord knows when - I started catching on 04/01. He came back 02/02 (moved out only for 2 months). There was some contact with OW at that time, but I get the feeling they crashed & burned. The affairs eventually die when reality shows its face & their true personalities are exposed.<p>As far as the money goes, I think when he closed the checking you should have had a 50/50 split of the $. My H did that to our savings. Took out half and opened his own account. So then I closed that # and reopened my own account with remainder. Don't get screwed just cause he hasn't filed for D & no lawyers are involved. ANd don't let him start getting rid of things, selling things, closing accounts etc without your knowledge & approval!!! If he tries to take his name off the utility bills (not living there) the utility company will often shut stuff off a certain date unless you have called to get the account in your own name. My electricity would've been shut off & I didn't know til H told me to call them! So now the bills are in my name, but he gives me half cost back. Both our names are on the home mortgage though, darn it.<p>Hang in there, and work on YOU meeting YOUR needs if possible. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]

LIM: Thanks for your post. It sounds so familar..it's amazing to believe that things could turn from so cold to very warm. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]
CLG: Thanks for recommendations. I just got home and two books had arrived (Surving An Affair, His Needs, Her Needs). I've heard now a couple times to pretend he doesn't exist-single mom mindset. I am trying. I see him alot this weekend because of kid's stuff. We went to one conference today. When he walked out, I said open your wallet. He did and our wedding pic that I had given him after the 2nd week he had moved out was still there. I was surprised. It doesnt' mean much but I thought it was interesting.
Today is 8 weeks since he moved out. Yuk..he's never mentioned coming back but I am starting to feel better and I haven't been doing my crapy LB's. Really trying to take the high road.
Yes!
Happy Friday!
-CS

just bumping [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]

I feel good! When WH picked up kids, I was pleasant, exchanged infor and when they left, I said to the kids I am not going to call you tonight to say night but I'll see you early in the am. WH said, Do you want them to call you? And I said, I don't think I'll be here at bedtime (nonchalently). WH gave me a quick strange glance and then said when they got to the car, "have a good time tonight."
And you know what? I am going to! I am taking myself to a movie! AND I AM GOING TO ENJOY IT. I should be cleaning and getting ready for B-party but I am not. I need time off!
Bye (and no, I am not going to see Unfaithful!
-CS

I am home from my movie: In the Bedroom. Interesting--involves marriage issues. Now, I am going to start reading my Harley books.\
-CS

Yeah!!!<p>I didn't much like "In The Bedroom." I thought Sissy Spacek was overrated and the male lead (who played her H) wasn't given enough credit...<p>I have half a mind to see "Unfaithful" as a cathartic exercise... (I said 1/2 a mind) [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] <p>You sound good. Happy reading.<p>Hugs,
Cali