I need help with another up close and personal problem where I'm having trouble figuring out the best approach and what to say. Hope you all can give me some brilliant ideas.<p>We have reached the end of the season of my nightmare of going to my H's competitions where the OW works. Since we are both currently reading books by Dr. Harley, I was planning to use this situation to illustrate the need for POJA because I never should have agreed to this "solution" to the problem, figuring that it was now something from the past so could be discussed without a whole lot of trouble.<p>Well, last night he was going through the final standings, and in talking about his disappointment in the change in his average, states this little gem: "but the good side is that it keeps us 1 point under the cap so we can still compete in this league if we can't find anything else."<p>I chose not to say anything for fear of having an angry outburst I was so shocked and flabbergasted. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] So now I'm trying to figure out what I SHOULD have said and WILL say when I feel I can control myself. What I wanted to say was, "If you compete in that league again, you'll need to find another wife to accompany you." [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Now that I'm reading Give & Take and trying to learn better ways to approach things like this, I'm still having a hard time figuring out exactly what to say. The bottom line for me is that ignoring my feelings about this AGAIN will result in him being served so I can get a court order forcing him out of the house so I can Plan B, but I doubt that's where or how I should START the conversation.<p>This is what I've come up with so far: "Last night I heard you say something about competing in the league at [OW's workplace] again. I am unable to agree to that with enthusiasm. In fact, I cannot agree to it at all and never should have agreed to it back in January."<p>I decided to leave out how many times I've told him how his going there makes me feel, not to mention having to go there myself so as to feel only slightly less awful, since that might come across as a DR.<p>Any other suggestions?

I think bringing up your feelings about possibly being in that league next year and 'how WE can address the issue" would be a good start. I agree, leave out the "how many times"...that will only get defenses up.<p>Have you ever read this post, BTW? I like the POJA guidelines in it...<p>www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=8&t=008126

Thanks, Kam, for the link. I always love to have a specific roadmap to follow. Will keep those guidelines in printed form for reference.<p>So, in trying to follow the guidelines, maybe I should say, "We may have a problem with your next season. What would you like to do about it?" My guess is that his response would be, "What do you mean we have a problem?" He does not know very much about POJA other than his arguments why it can't work when I originally proposed adopting it.<p>Then encourage him to follow the next step: "I want to avoid having a problem, so I'd like to start with what YOU would like to do about your next season. If that is appealing to me, then we are in enthusiastic agreement and have no problem." Of course, he'll ask what if it's not appealing, and then I'll have an opening to explain the process and share the guidelines with him.<p>Of course, it's much better to start off practicing on a grocery list, but this is kind of an emergency since this should take place before any talk with his teammates takes place, which could be anytime since summer leagues are already starting. I think he thinks that since I've been going with him all this time that I'm "over it" (my aversion to that place), so it's not a problem anymore. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] More evidence of his lack of empathy and insight.

My friend, the therapist, says that even though I agreed to a selfish demand, it was a joint agreement nonetheless, and that I should request reassurance that he is planning to fulfill the agreement.<p>The January agreement resulted when I attempted to go to Plan B by requesting that he move out. He refused. He agreed to follow a formal marital recovery plan (part of which included eliminating the OW's workplace and all its vestiges from our lives forever by season end), so I agreed not to get a court order forcing him out of the house.<p>And to top it off, he's wearing one of those d*mn logo shirts again. I thought I had gotten rid of all of them, and there it is in my face again! [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] <p>My friend also pointed out the difference between a remorseful person and my H. A remorseful person does not make half-hearted attempts to meet your minimal requirements for a R. A remorseful person realizes how they have violated the R, and they proactively seek ways to mitigate the damage, i.e. seek therapy to figure out why they did such a thing, come up with a plan to restore the R, etc.<p>So far, I'm the one, as usual, leading the way, dragging him along. (She's observed this entire M.) When I try to imagine the situation in reverse, the LAST thing I'd want to do is constantly remind my BS of the A by insisting on keeping that stupid venue in our lives and wearing things with the logo on them and requesting that he check their website for scores, etc., yet he does these things on a routine basis.<p>I am definitely to blame for not speaking up about it every single time it happens. But I guess I just kept thinking that eventually it would hit him and he would be horrified by what he was doing. Pretty stupid, huh?<p>Well, I plan to start tonight when he gets home. I have all his acceptable shirts washed and hung. I plan to request that he change his shirt so that I can throw the offending one away--he did agree to getting rid of everything with that logo, after all.<p>It is at times like these that I wonder what on earth I am doing remaining in this R. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] If he can violate me like he has and STILL be oblivious to my feelings about it, why am I still here? If this is the best he can do to restore a R with someone he violated with adultery, what torture does he have planned for me next?<p>Getting rid of logo items and changing a sports venue are such low-cost ways to provide care and protection. If he can't follow through on such simple easy things, then what about the more difficult, high-cost stuff, like not having another A?<p>In some ways, nothing has changed since Labor Day. I'm still waiting for the same things I told him I would need to restore this R all the way back then. If we've made so little progress in 8 months, what will the next 8 months bring, if anything? I'm very discouraged.

Conqueror, <p>What you are going through is so familiar to me, I can hardly believe it.<p>I don't have any advice, just empathy.<p>PLEASE read my AWESOME POEM post. It helped clear my head a little.<p>Replaced

Thanks, Replaced. I think I've read that poem before (great retention, huh? [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] ). My therapist friend also pointed out my responsibility for the state of things--that I gave mixed messages when I agreed to something like that, then went along and pretended like I'm not dying inside when I have to go there, etc. She said the least I should have done was share with him what I go through starting on Sunday all the way through till Tuesday (league night is Monday). I should have at least told him how unpleasant it was for me and how I couldn't wait until we never have to go there again.<p>When he came home tonight, he jokingly requested a sexual favor, and I responded, "Not unless you change your shirt." The excuses he made for wearing the shirt showed me that he knew exactly why I wanted that shirt, so it's not that he is oblivious to my objections to the stinking place and its reminders, but what it is that makes him rub my face in it I'll never know. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] I imagine that I would have some shame if the situation were reversed.

Conqueror,<p>H and I have taken turns sending mixed messages for 30+ years. I think it's just a really bad HABIT. It's caused SOOO much resentment and misunderstanding on both sides.<p>I think the next time H does something that I have already let him know bothers me or hurts me, I will try the following-----"I was wondering why you continue to do this when I have said it bothers me so much".<p>Then he will be able to let me know if he even remembers discussing it(could be a problem with selective memory). <p>We keep asking ourselves WHY do they keep doing stuff like this. Maybe it's time we ask THEM instead of wasting so much energy trying to figure them out. <p>How many answers can there be?<p>1. I forgot<p>2. I thought you were over it<p>3. Your feelings are silly about this so I'm not
going to honor them<p>4. I'm too selfish to change what I do just to
keep from hurting you, it's your problem<p>5. I truly don't remember discussing this or
agreeing to this<p>6. I truly did not understand how this makes you
feel, now that I do I will GLADLY stop
[img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

7. I don't KNOOOWW why I do that.( heavy sigh from him) [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]